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Rockies Intensify Search For Fifth Starter

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The Rockies and Pirates were in discussions about starter Ian Snell before the non-waiver trade deadline, but Pittsburgh’s asking price of Franklin Morales was to high for the Rox to match, effectively killing the deal.

After another bad outing from one of their starters this week, however, and knowing they will look for a fifth starter via the waiver wire, the Rockies may have to revisit the Snell talks, as Troy E. Renck of the Denver Post thinks he would’ve been a "tantalizing option;" Renck also mentions Josh Fogg as an alternative for the Rox.

Fogg pitched for the Rockies in 2006 and Snell drew some interest from the Mets before the deadline.

Alejandro A. Leal writes for UmpBump.com. Post-deadline rumors? Comments? alexo05 [at] umpbump [daught] com.

Players Not Traded

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Assigning contender status is subjective, but I’m going to say that the following teams are not in the playoff mix: the Orioles, Royals, Indians, Mariners, Braves, Nationals, Reds, Astros, Pirates, Giants, and Padres.  The Blue Jays and Athletics just missed the cut as fringe wild card contenders.  With those 11 non-contenders in mind, let’s take a look at players not traded at the ’08 non-waiver deadline.

  • Orioles: Aubrey Huff, Ramon Hernandez, Brian Roberts, Jay Payton, Jamie Walker, Kevin Millar, Chad Bradford, George Sherrill.  Millar and Payton are free agents after the season, but there probably wasn’t much of a market for either.  The rest are under team control through at least ’09, so Andy MacPhail still has time to find the right deal; read his comments here.  Hernandez is an August trade candidate.
  • Royals: Jose Guillen, Mark Grudzielanek, Ron Mahay, David DeJesus, Miguel Olivo.  Moving the Guillen contract would’ve made sense, but we don’t know whether that was on the table.  Kind of surprised to see Grudz still around.  Mahay could be an offseason move, but the Royals might just want him for ’09.  DeJesus’ name will probably come up at the Winter Meetings.
  • Indians: Paul Byrd, David Dellucci, Jamey Carroll.  Only Byrd was thought to generate a bit of interest.  He could go in August.
  • Mariners: Adrian Beltre, Jarrod Washburn, Raul Ibanez.  The Ms still have time to move Beltre and Washburn if they feel so inclined.  Ibanez is a possible Type A free agent, so the Mariners asked for a lot.  Jayson Stark spoke to teams who characterized the Ms demands as "outrageous" in general.  Geoff Baker gives his take on the Mariners’ deadline day.
  • Braves: Mark Kotsay, Will Ohman.  Wouldn’t be surprising to see Kotsay moved this month.  Ohman we discussed here.
  • Nationals: Austin Kearns, Dmitri Young, Cristian Guzman, Luis Ayala, Ron Belliard, Tim Redding, Odalis Perez.  Some of these players have little trade value, while the Nationals prefer to keep others for ’09.
  • Reds: Adam Dunn, Bronson Arroyo, Jeremy Affeldt, David Weathers, David Ross, Josh Fogg, Paul Bako.  It seems that the offers just weren’t there for Dunn, who should net a pair of draft picks unless the Reds are gunshy about offering arbitration.  I’m surprised Weathers and Fogg weren’t moved.
  • Astros: Miguel Tejada, Randy Wolf, Jose Valverde, Ty Wigginton, Mark Loretta, Doug Brocail, Geoff Geary.  The ’Stros are acting like contenders.  The worst outcome for fans would be if Wolf and LaTroy Hawkins add a few wins and worsen the team’s ’09 draft position.
  • Pirates: Jack Wilson, John Grabow, Doug Mientkiewicz.  The Pirates were quite active, and could still trade Wilson and Grabow this winter.
  • Giants: Randy Winn, Dave Roberts, Bengie Molina, Rich Aurilia, Tyler Walker, Jack Taschner.  Winn and Roberts are August trade candidates.  The others might’ve made sense to trade.
  • Padres: Greg Maddux, Brian Giles, Khalil Greene, Josh Bard.  Maddux, with just one possible suitor, couldn’t be moved.  Keeping Giles and Bard around makes sense for ’09, while trading Greene now would be selling low.  The Padres did talk to seven different teams in the last few days.

Odds And Ends: Braves, Orioles, Redding, Dunn, Ryan

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A few more post-deadline notes from the MLBiverse…

  • Apparently the Braves tried to get involved in the Jason Bay sweepstakes in the last hour before the deadline.
  • Andy MacPhail feels that the Orioles will actually be more active in August than in July. Jeff Zrebiec and Dan Connolly suggest that several players, including Kevin Millar, Jay Payton and Ramon Hernandez could be had in August. MacPhail also noted that while there "was a pretty high bar set" for teams asking about Brian Roberts, MacPhail made it clear that Roberts was not off-limits and suggested that a deal this winter is not out of the question.
  • Jim Bowden does not appear eager to trade Tim Redding, who according to Bill Ladson, is the Nat’s only player of value that could be traded in August.
  • Walt Jocketty would not commit to an attempt to sign Adam Dunn to an extension.
  • Terry Ryan, the Twins former GM, penned a piece for SI.com in which he details what a GM goes through in the weeks and days leading up to the trade deadline. Very interesting read.

Cork Gaines writes for RaysIndex.com and can be reached here.

Ibanez Trade Unlikely

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6:10pm: Just to wrap up Toronto’s brief venture into the Bay sweepstakes (since it was first reported in this post)…the Jays backed out when the Pirates asked for Shaun Marcum and top prospect Travis Snider.

5:36pm: Geoff Baker has some more details on the failed deal with Toronto although he still is not sure who was offered for Ibanez. Baker has quotes from JP Ricciardi that says it was the Mariners that backed out of the deal. Baker then goes on to speculate that the aquisition of Ibanez was a marketing tool to convince the fans in Toronto that the team was still gunning for the playoffs to keep TV ratings up.

2:48pm: Jayson Stark says the Mariners had second thoughts and will likely keep Ibanez.  It could’ve been a 2-for-1 with Major Leaguers going to Seattle.

2:34pm: Jeff Blair says talks for Ibanez are ongoing.  It’s even possible (though unlikely) an Ibanez trade could allow the Jays to include Adam Lind in a deal.

Blair adds that the Marlins called the Jays about Matt Stairs.

2:20pm: The Jays are left as the sole Ibanez suitor as we draw to within 40 minutes of the deadline.

1:14pm: Stark says the Jays are also eyeing Raul Ibanez.  Eh?  Also, Dejan Kovacevic says the Bay talks ended quickly based on the Pirates’ asking price.  Think Shaun Marcum and Travis Snider.

11:48am: According to ESPN’s Jayson Stark, the Blue Jays have entered the mix for Jason Bay.  Of course, the asking price will be high.  But Bay is Canadian!

The Jays are 6.5 games out of the wild card, that dangerous area where a team thinks it’s a contender.  Bay is under contract for ’09 too though.

Manny To Dodgers, Bay To Red Sox

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4:05pm: Peter Abraham says Manny’s team options were removed and he has agreed to decline arbitration.

3:58pm: Let’s sort through this wild trade.

  • For 1.3 years of Bay, the Pirates receive LaRoche, Morris, Hansen, and Moss.  Moss becomes the regular left fielder, LaRoche takes over at third until Pedro Alvarez is ready.  When that happens, they might have a good problem on their hands.  Future Pirates’ outfield: Moss, McCutchen, McLouth.  The pitchers are a couple of live arms at this point.
  • The Red Sox might be downgrading a bit with Bay replacing Manny, but they get Bay next year for just $7.5MM.
  • The Dodgers will have Manny play every day.  That leaves Juan Pierre, Andruw Jones, Andre Ethier, and Matt Kemp splitting two outfield spots.  Not ideal, but they didn’t give up a ton to get Ramirez.  One question – can they get Manny to agree to decline an offer of arbitration so they can net draft picks?

3:39pm: Bob Nightengale has the Bucs getting Craig Hansen and Brandon Moss from the Red Sox and Andy LaRoche and Bryan Morris from the Dodgers, correcting what looks like a typo in the Rosenthal report.

3:37pm: Rosenthal has details:

Pirates outfielder Jason Bay is headed to the Red Sox. The Pirates will receive Andy LaRoche and right-hander Bryan Morris from the Dodgers and outfielder Damien Moss and releiver Craig Hansen from the Red Sox.

He adds that the Red Sox will pay the $7MM remaining on Manny’s contract.

3:30pm: According to SI.com’s Jon Heyman.  Jack Curry agrees.

Jason Bay Rumors: Thursday

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3:29pm: Bay to the Dodgers?  Jennifer Langosch says it’s possible.

3:00pm: Rosenthal has a source saying Bay to the Rays is off "unless a miracle happens."  He has Bay headed to Boston once again.

2:43pm: MLB.com’s Jonathan Mayo says there is no done deal – the Rays might not make Brignac available.

2:11pm: MLB.com’s Bill Chastain with the scoop – the Rays have acquired Jason Bay for Reid Brignac and Jeff Niemann.  The Rays haven’t confirmed it yet though, and Rosenthal says the Bucs want to replace Niemann with other prospects.  I wonder if Bay would DH for the Rays.

Will we see a Jack Wilson trade next, or will that wait until the offseason?  Brignac, 22, is hitting .257/.304/.429 in 91 Triple A games.  He probably isn’t ready yet.  Baseball America still expects him to develop into a solid offensive-minded shortstop.

Niemann, 25, has a 3.53 ERA in 18 Triple A starts this year.  He’ll probably go straight into the Pirates’ rotation.  Baseball America feels he has #2 or #3 starter stuff, but his star has dimmed in recent times.

Manny Ramirez Rumors: Thursday

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3:26pm: Many people are emailing saying Jon Heyman is reporting Manny to the Dodgers.

3:08pm: Aaaaaand…it’s dead again.

3:02pm: Rosenthal stirs things up: the three-headed Manny-Bay-Hermida deal is back on.

2:46pm: Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe says the three-way is dead, while the Dodgers are in play.  Gordon Edes of the Boston Globe says to count out the Dodgers on Manny.  Guess these guys aren’t cube-mates.

1:31pm: Heyman says the Dodgers are back in the mix for Manny but the Marlins aren’t out of it.

1:17pm: Nick Cafardo doesn’t buy the "dead" talk.  However, the Pirates may have turned away from the Boston-Florida scenario for Bay.  The Rays are still a possibility for him.

12:56pm: Rosenthal’s hearing this thing is dead.

11:49am: Rosenthal has a mixed opinion, with one source advising caution and another saying the deal is "taking off."  Manny is following the ordeal on ESPN.

More links: a Gordon Edes Q&A on the topic, and word from Yahoo’s Tim Brown that the Pirates are happy with their end of the deal.

11:46am: Peter Gammons says the three-way Manny deal is close to dead.  It may not make sense for Boston.

11:34am: A deal hasn’t been reached, though Manny has consented to a Florida trade.  Jon Heyman considers this a major hurdle cleared.

The Rays appear unlikely to make a trade, by the way.  Perhaps they’re cursed by their own loaded farm system.

11:29am: Will Carroll has an update.  The Pirates could back out Bay talks entirely if they don’t get what they want.  The Red Sox will continue shopping Manny regardless, with the Dodgers and a mystery team in the mix.  The Dodgers might be willing to part with Matt Kemp.

10:44am: Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe agrees – the Pirates’ return for Bay may be the holdup.

10:12am: Rosenthal says the three teams have a framework for the major players, but no agreement on the prospects.  The Bucs’ return from the Red Sox is the holdup.  Rosenthal says Tucker and Stanton will stay put, by the way.

9:37am: Kovacevic says the Pirates are open to trading Bay to the Red Sox or the Rays.

9:22am: ESPN’s Jayson Stark’s source has this at 50-50.  The Pirates are insisting on Stanton but the Marlins don’t want to give him up.  Grabow coud end up in Florida rather than Boston.  Tucker is in play but not a lock to be moved.

9:10am: Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald has a source saying chances of a deal are "less than 50-50."  Some members of Red Sox front office are not convinced Manny should be traded.  What do you think?  Are they better off with Bay and Grabow or Manny?

7:59am: Scott Miller of CBSSports.com hears that Ryan Tucker and Mike Stanton would not be in the deal.  He says it’s not done and talks could still collapse.  By the way, the Pirates have tried to acquire Jeremy Hermida in the past.

7:17am: Here’s the latest on the Manny Ramirez–Jason Bay–Jeremy Hermida three-way deal talks.  At this time, the AP is saying there is no tentative agreement between the Red Sox, Pirates, and Marlins.

Adam Dunn Rumors

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THURSDAY, 10:33am: SI.com’s Jon Heyman says the Reds seek players such as Jeff Niemann and Jeremy Hellickson in a Dunn trade.  Niemann probably could be had.

WEDNESDAY, 10:13pm: Finally, some Dunn rumors.  ESPN’s Jayson Stark says the Rays are talking with the Reds about Dunn, though he’s their Plan B to Jason Bay.  I imagine Dunn would DH for the Rays.

9:25pm: According to SI.com’s Jon Heyman, the Diamondbacks offered Chad Tracy to the Reds for Adam Dunn.  He says another NL team has also inquired on Dunn.

However, GM Walt Jocketty said a few hours ago he hadn’t talked to anyone about Dunn today.

Mets In Holding Pattern

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8:39am: SI.com’s Jon Heyman says the Mets have "kicked around" the idea of acquiring Ian Snell from the Pirates and using him in relief for the rest of the year.  Snell is signed through 2010 with club options for ’11 and ’12.  It’s tough to see the Bucs moving him, even in an off year.

8:13am: According to David Lennon of Newsday, the Mets are not finding a deal to their liking for a reliever or outfielder.  They’ve put pretty much all of their good prospects off-limits – Fernando Martinez, Jon Niese, Eddie Kunz or Bobby Parnell.

Players such as Raul Ibanez, Brian Fuentes, George Sherrill, and J.J. Putz have all been on the radar.  But the Mets just don’t like the prices.  Lennon says they still might move Scott Schoeneweis though.

Marlins, Red Sox, Pirates Talking Manny Trade

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12:03am: Baseball Prospectus’ Kevin Goldstein believes the Pirates will end up with Stanton, Tucker, and Hermida.

11:21pm: Heyman says there’s some prospect haggling but the teams are optimistic a deal will get done.  The Marlins and Red Sox seem certain to make a swap, while the Pirates are trying to enhance their part.  They are still at risk of being replaced by another club.

Gordon Edes of the Boston Globe thinks a deal may be close, but not done.  So we’ve got journalists on both sides of the fence, but everyone seems optimistic.

10:33pm: The Palm Beach Post says a tentative agreement has been reached, despite Gammons’ comments.  Here’s the deal:

Marlins get: Manny Ramirez, cash, prospect from Red Sox
Red Sox get: Jason Bay, John Grabow
Pirates get: Ryan Tucker, Jeremy Hermida, one prospect from Red Sox, perhaps another prospect from Marlins

10:22pm: More from Gammons.  The deal is definitely not done – the Bucs aren’t yet satisfied with the players they’d get from Boston for Bay.  Nothing has been done in regards to Manny’s no-trade or paperwork to the Commissioner’s Office.

Gammons expects this to go right down to the wire.

10:11pm: Kovacevic believes Ryan Tucker might end up with the Pirates, though it’s tentative.

9:05pm: Gammons: talks will continue into Thursday.  Good, it’ll give me something to do.

8:50pm: Will Carroll believes the Commissioner’s Office has been informed of a Red Sox-Pirates-Marlins trade even though the teams haven’t agreed on the prospects.  Here’s how he sees it:

Marlins get Manny Ramirez, one prospect (BOS), and cash (likely Ramirez’s remaining salary)
Pirates get Jeremy Hermida and three prospects (two FLO, one BOS)
Red Sox get Jason Bay and John Grabow

8:48pm: Perrotto clarifies a bit – Grabow could go to Florida with Stanton joining the Pirates.  Interestingly, the Pirates are still talking to the Rays about Bay.

8:29pm: Here’s the latest.  MLB.com says we’re moving closer to the three-team deal.  The Pirates could receive a minor leaguer from the Red Sox.  Dejan Kovacevic says the Pirates would receive four or more prospects for Bay, as well as Hermida.  John Grabow could end up in Boston or Florida.  Perrotto says it could be expanded to have Jed Lowrie go to Pittsburgh and Jack Wilson to Boston.  The Bucs also like Red Sox prospect Hunter Jones.

7:46pm: Rosenthal talked to a Marlins official who said there’s "no way" Stanton is in the deal.  The Fish might want young players back if they’re giving up prospects.

7:33pm: Gordon Edes of the Boston Globe characterizes it as "strong interest" from the Marlins but not a done deal.  Jon Heyman also has the Fish in the lead.  Will Carroll has some kind of Bay/Marlins multiteam deal in the final stages.  Jim Molony says the talks are real but a Manny to Florida deal is unlikely.  Meanwhile, Manny keeps talking his way out of Boston.

7:23pm: Jayson Stark says the Red Sox are trying to get Stanton, Ryan Tucker, and one of Willingham/Hermida for Ramirez.

6:24pm: MLB.com’s Joe Frisaro is hearing about a three-way deal that would also send Jason Bay to the Red Sox.  Hermida would wind up in Pittsburgh.

5:56pm: Baseball Prospectus’ John Perrotto has multiple baseball sources saying the Red Sox are on the verge of sending Ramirez to Florida for three players, including outfielder Mike Stanton.  Dan Graziano says Hermida would be in this deal.

MLB.com’s Joe Frisaro said his baseball sources aren’t dismissing it.

5:31pm: The latest: Buster Olney says the Sox are in "serious conversations" with the Marlins about Ramirez.  The Red Sox would kick in money and want three players back, one of whom would probably be Willingham or Hermida.  Progress on this is said to be "slow," per Ken Rosenthal’s source.

3:24pm: Mike Berardino just can’t see the Manny-Marlins thing happening at all.  The Marlins remained mum on the topic when Berardino asked, but he cited many reasons why it didn’t make sense.  Also keep in mind that the Josh Willingham mention was speculation from Ken Rosenthal, not a rumor.

ESPN’s Jayson Stark agrees with others saying Manny is staying put.  He notes that the rumors could resume into August due to Ramirez’s salary.  Awesome!

11:22am: ESPN’s Andrew Marchand says the deadline for a Manny trade might be 3pm CST today, as he has to sign paperwork 24 hours prior to a deal to waive his no-trade rights.  However, it is possible that Ramirez already signed away his no-trade rights for some teams.

9:31am: Ken Rosenthal says Manny is a longshot to be traded.  As it was all along.  Sounds like the Red Sox will decline his ’09 option.

8:24am: Late last night, Will Carroll of Baseball Prospectus had an interesting rumor:

One good source told me that he had heard that the Marlins were involved, willing to give up Jeremy Hermida and Boston-area product Jeff Allison, but I couldn’t confirm this. I just don’t see this deal getting done.

I imagine the Red Sox would be willing to eat all of Ramirez’s salary to get a player like Hermida.  As Carroll said, it seems unlikely.

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