Brad Lidge Could Be Available

I first heard the Astros might consider trading Brad Lidge a few days ago, when Dayn Perry tossed it out there.  Perry mentioned that Lidge could go to Atlanta, and here's what I said:

"Could the Braves somehow emerge with the best closer on the market?  One who no one even knew was on the market?  I wouldn't put it past Schuerholz.  I can't see Houston doing the deal for anything less than catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia or shortstop Elvis Andrus."

I still feel that the Braves are the frontrunner.  Lidge doesn't become a free agent until after the 2008 season, so it's not like the Astros would make this deal to snag whatever they could get before Lidge departs for the big bucks.  Whatever team gets Lidge gets him for three solid years and will pay a below-market salary for it.

Given that, it makes sense that the Astros would look to improve their team now and not in two years.  So Saltalamacchia and Andrus might not be the right kind of players for this deal.  Major League ready lefty starter Chuck James might be a start in a Lidge deal.  Anthony Lerew would also fit the bill.  The dealbreaker, though, might be Marcus Giles.  Giles will be a free agent after 2007, and the Astros can't expect to run Craig Biggio out there forever.

John Lopez wrote about trading Lidge in an article for the Houston Chronicle yesterday.  Lopez's logic against the Orioles and Reds makes sense.  Those teams are not a top-flight closer away from competing.  But Lopez also dimisses the Boston Red Sox simply because Manny wouldn't fit with Houston.

I think the Red Sox could become major players for Lidge, but Ramirez doesn't have to be involved.  Even outside of Andy Marte, the club has enough young talent to at least get a meeting with Astros GM Tim Purpura.  Pitchers Jon Lester, Jonathan Papelbon, and Craig Hansen can be contributers in 2006 and beyond, and Boston would love a rock-solid alternative to Keith Foulke.

Lopez goes on to write that the Phillies look like the only legitimate possibility for a deal.  Obviously I disagree with that.  It doesn't make sense for the Phils to leave a gaping hole in their offense in order to craft a Yankee-like bullpen.

What other teams have a strong need at closer and the talent to swing a deal for Lidge?

Scanning the Closer Watch, I don't see any.  The Orioles and Reds remain dark horses, but the Red Sox and Braves seem to be the best fits.

What do you think?         

Comments

[Nick]

Said it before and will say it again...Brad Lidge goes NOWHERE....unless it is a major league big bat ready now. Houston WILL NOT deal him for "prospects" doesn't matter how "good" there supose to be. Notice in Lopez article, nowhere does it say anything about prospects, it talks about an immediate big power bat to help the team. Wanna talk about what deals the Astros ARE looking at? Lidge and Everett for Tejada.
Lidge and Tavares for Andruw Jones.
Lidge and player for Abreau.
No Manny. No Dunn. (Dunn will be here next year)Thats what is going around the talk radio and papers here, no where on EARTH is Lidge and prospect being mentioned in the same sentance but in the speculation of this board.

[RumorMonger]

Talk radios are newspapers are typically behind the curve. Especially talk radio. Most talk radio hosts have never heard of any of the prospects mentioned. Doesn't mean it's not an option.

Lopez's article has major holes - no mention of the Braves, and no discussion of why the Phils would trade Abreu for a 2nd closer.

Wanna open up your mind and realize that there are more possibilities to these things than the ones you like and heard on the radio?

[JC]

Ramirez seems like a pretty good fit and that article doesn't do much to disspell that. A straight-up deal with the Sox paying half of Manny's salary seems like a pretty good fit. Maybe Boston would have to include a prospect, but otherwise it's a deal that helps both teams.

And could you imagine the kind of numbers Manny would post in Coors Field South?

[Nick]

RumorMonger..*shakes head* We will agree to disagree...
I have plenty of sources on the Astros end, that my info is comming from...three of which being Mr. Lopez himself along with Mr. Justice and Ms. Footer, just to name a couple...after reading this board for a few weeks, it seems that you dont have much in the way of Astros contacts....if your sticking points are the Houston Chronicle, which as you said are behind in the curve. Email me if you have further intrest.

[RumorMonger]

Not saying you're wrong, but that I don't buy into talk radio and prospects aren't out of the question.

In the way of established players, I think Lidge could be dealt for Marcus Giles or Adam Dunn. And JC's got a point - if the salary issue could be ironed out, a Manny deal could work.

[Nick]

Manny would be a monster in LFin Houston but that attitude just will not work on that team, MAJOR Oil and Water issue. We also don't have bathrooms in the left field wall.

Dunn. Adam Dunn will be a FA next near, he will be comming to Houston, no need to give up Lidge to get 1 year outta Dunn. The Reds issue is a major starting pitching one, they need to improve there staff, not a hammer in the pen, they gotta get to him.

Tejada for Lidge and Everett could work.

Andrew Jones, well, that works for a few reasons, ATL has said they need a lead off man and closer. Houston gives that. Also, more support to that shows that it would be a "shocking deal" in Lopez column as well as email discussion I have had with him. Allyson Footer the Astros beat writer is usually the first one to shoot down ANY Rumor and even she jumped in on this recently via email and the radio, talking about a major shocking blockbuster that even she didnt dismiss. Further support about this is in the ATL papers about the Lidge deal talking about Houston making it work on the Salary end...its supported in many directions.

Houston is also talking to Kevin Mench for a prospect or two.

Bottom Line is this Rumor, Brad Lidge, as you stated will be on the cheep for the comming years vs. the market..we also know Houston had salary strains due to Clemens, and back loaded Pettitte and Bagwell deals. There are only a few reasons to get rid of a player, if a team thinks he is damaged goods, which he is not, over 3 years removed from any arm issue with no problem, or if he can fix the Houston Cash flow issue. He can't, as you said he is good and cheap. So, the only reason to deal a big chip like Lidge is to max out what you can get for him to fill any current voids, like a big bat, there is no reason for Houston to trade Lidge for prospects, they won't, they have plenty in the minors. Again, Lidge only goes for a BIG BIG Bat.

Also, reguarding Clemens, look for Roger to pitch in the baseball championships, take a few months off, and be back with Houston in the Mid May-Early June time for the rest of the year, also note the Richard Justice column on this.

Again, if you would like a Astros contact if you dont have one, please contact me to discuss.

[RumorMonger]

I don't think Lidge's health is as sound as you think. A history of elbow problems and poor mechanics coupled with rough usage patterns doesn't spell a great bet for long-term health. 3 seasons or not.

The Astros would never deal with the Braves unless there was an absolutely huge payoff for us. Why give our biggest competitor the one piece they need to beat us?

If Lidge is traded, it'll be for a big bat in the AL, to a team that we don't always face in the playoffs, or to the Phillies because Abreu is a good deal for us since he came up through our system.

Best bet is the Red Sox or the Orioles or the Phillies. The front desk and the fans of Houston wouldn't accept anything less.

Furthermore, the Astros don't need Marcus Giles. There is a reason we're still holding onto Chris Burke and that's because he'll be Biggio's replacement.

[st.PETEr ROSE]

You could tell Lopez was sweet on Abreu, like a little kid, he ran through all the potential names right to Bobby, and right after that, he felt for the first time in the article, the need to justify or remanice about how hard it would be to let Lidge go but that it would be just about worth it. NEWS-Everybody- loves Abreu- but nobody wants to cough it up to get him. I dont think he gets any respect, he's the most consistent of any name i've heard in trade talks for whoever.300/25-35/100+/400obp.Your gonna have to give up something for that, nobody wants to though but then they cry about how they need a bat. Also, no mention of Atlanta in that artice either.I think if he leaves Schueholtz will surely be right there waiting.-The Phils and Abreu will not be involved in this one - unless a third team is involved with more players, like a starter from another team w/ the phils landing Lidge and the starter, Abreu going to the Astros and a prospect package from both the Phils and Astros going to the team that gave up the starter. I don't think so.

[James]

From the Phillies end, id pass.

[st.PETEr ROSE]

Again- Gillick will not trade Abreu for anything less than a top of the rotation starter- he will wait and will happen.

[The Truth]

Big deal. The 2nd coming of Tom "HomeRun" Niedenfuer is on the block.

[Chuck]

If the Braves do decide to put a trade together, they will probably base it around switch hitting catcher jarrod saltalamacchia, and Yunel Escobar.

They could also throw in someone like Ryan Langerhans, Kelly Johnson, or Chuck James

[Mark Hartman]

Lidge goes to the Rangers along with Tavares and Astacio for Mench, Cordero and Matthews plus cash.

Why? Cordero is just a notch below Lidge right now. The 'Stros have nothing to replace Lidge with except two guys who can't get the job done. Cordero fills that gap.

The Astros already want Mench.

Burke will move to CF. The Astros don't have a 4th OF but Matthews is an excellent choice. (Palmeiro is a 5th OF/pinch hitter - he can't do the job of a 4th OF.)

There is a budget difference and so the Astros will ask for some cash.

The Rangers want starting pitching. They still have Wilkerson to get that if Mench is traded. Tavares go to CF for Texas.

The Rangers now have a cheaper and better closer for 3 years.

Astacio showed some signs of improvement. He will compete for the 5th spot in the rotation.

[Nick]

Huh? Qualls or Wheeler can't get the job done? Since when? Both of them where very very good last year for Houston. Granted, pitching the 8th is not the same as the 9th, but they have done a fine job.

The Astros want Mench if there's nothing better. Considering we are in a prime position to land either Tejada or Ramirez, I don't see that deal happening. Furthermore, the Astros don't want to trade for a relief pitcher. Dan Wheeler is a good bet to take over for closer with Qualls taking over the 8th-inning slot. We move one of our many mlb-ready pitchers into the 7th-inning slot.

I could see a three-way deal between Boston, Baltimore, and Houston.

Boston would get Lidge and Adam Everett.
Baltimore would get Manny and a prospect/low mlb player from Boston.
Astros would get Miggy and enough cash to off-set his contract for a year.

[Brian]

Dunn for Lidge

http://www.metsblog.com/blog/_archives/2005/12/11/1445400.html

[Nick]

Don't see this happening...two reasons....
1. Houston wouldn't trade him in the same league I dont think let alone division. (Granted the Reds suck and you wouldnt see him that many times)

2. Its well known Dunn WANTS to play in Houston, I can see the Reds wanting to do this deal to get some value for him but for Houston you know he is going to be comming home after next season as a FA...so your giving up a great closer to get Dunn for one extra year....Doesnt make much sense for Houston.

Also, the Reds need pitching...starting pitching, having a hammer in the pen is pointless if you never get to him.

It makes sense for Houston in the fact that we need Dunn's bat now and not in a year. However, I only see this happening if all other options are exhausted because I believe that Lidge or other high-rate pitching would be the only thing Dunn is traded for.

In whatever trades happen, Houston has the upper hand because they don't have to trade Lidge. So we have the time to look for the best.

[Ernesto]

The Astros have a history of trading away closers if they can get anything in the way of improvements eslewhere. Remember, Lidge only got his break once they traded Wagner AND Dotel. With the market for closers being at an alltime high for sellers, I would actually be surprised if the Astros (with viable alternatives for 9th inning duty in Qualls and Wheeler) don't trade Lidge.

I like that three team deal mentioned above involving the Red Sox and Orioles, along with the Astros. I think it makes a ton of sense for all of the teams involved.

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Atlanta gets Lidge by offering either Marcus Giles or a package of prospects headlined by two of the following: Anthony Lerew, Yunel Escobar, Elvis Andrus and/or Jarrod Saltalamacchia. As a Braves fan, I'd rather not do either deal.

[Nick]

Houston has no need for Giles. Biggio will be there the next two years and that is Burke's spot there after.

Lidge will not be delt for prospects.

For the Braves to make the deal for Lidge, Andruw Jones or Edgar Renteria would have to be offered up. We have no need for Giles and prospects aren't enough for Lidge.

[Nick]

There have been some mumblings of Tavares and Lidge for Jones (andruw) that I have seen.

I don't think Atlanta would make that deal. They lose their power number without Andruw Jones. We lose basically nothing without Lidge and Willy, except for a lot of infield bloopers.

[Jay]

Personally I think the Reds would trade Dunn for Lidge, although I don't think the Reds are in a position where they feel they have to trade any of the outfielders now Especially if they get a starting pitcher from the Free Agent Market. This deal scares me though cause losing Dunn is a big risk. New ownership is coming next month and they have already said they are wanting to win now. Does that mean Dunn goes in this deal don't know for sure. Also wanted to note that the Reds do need a closer pretty bady cause David Weathers is not going to cut it too much. Ryan Wagner has closer potential for the Reds but has had a few setbacks.

[Braveswin]

First of all, Atlanta needs a closer and Lidge is one of the best out there. Although I don't think Andruw would be part of any package for Lidge. As mentioned earlier, J.S. would more likely offer top prospects such as a Salty, Escobar, Lerew/James. Sure Andruw has been linked to trade rumores in the past, but after last season the Braves would be better off to keep him until his contract is up.

Also, not sure what the Braves will do with Giles. I believe this is his last year of arb. In the past I've heard we either can keep Furcal or Giles. Obviously we know who's left.

For the last time, Lidge will not go for a bunch of iffy prospects. We need a bat and if the thought of getting Lidge doesn't lure an offer of an all-star caliber (or close to it) player, then he's off the table.

[Hotlanta]

No way Atlanta trades a 51 HR, top flight centerfielder for a closer. I don't care if it's Mariano Rivera in his prime. Dominating closers are a luxury not a necessity. Cleanup hitters like Andruw are a must though on a team of mostly young non-power hitters. I think Houston wants a bat like Andruw's in any deal for Lidge and I don't blame them. There's no reason to trade Lidge now unless someone blows them away with an offer that makes them immediately better. But Atlanta absolutely could not afford to fill the closers role by opening up a gaping hole in the middle of their lineup, not to mention taking a huge defensive step backward in centerfield. If I'm Houston I make Lidge the centerpiece of a deal to get Tejada.

[RumorMonger]

Commenter Nick was spot on, and I shouldn't have doubted him. I emailed Alyson Footer of MLB.com, and she basically repeated what Nick said:

"There's no way they trade Lidge for prospects. The only way he's dealt is if it's a blockbuster -- anything less wouldn't be worth one of the top three closers in the league."

Also spoke to Brian McTaggart of the Houston Chronicle, and he thinks the Braves don't have the players necessary to get a deal done. It's looking like either Lidge doesn't get dealt at all, or as Nick said earlier, "Tejada for Lidge and Everett could work."

I agree with Nick's reasoning behind Dunn and Ramirez. Dunn will come to Houston as a free agent soon enough, and Ramirez won't mix well in Houston. He mentioned to me that if a Ramirez-Lidge deal is somehow worked out, the Red Sox might have to take on Jeff Bagwell's salary.

[Nick]

Thanks Rumor ;), hope I can assist further on the 'stros front if you would like me too =)

[RumorMonger]

Absolutely, you know where to email me.

[Rock Raines]

Actually, I recall reading somewhere that Lidge might be used in a trade because the Astros were eager to re-acquire Octavio Dotel. The thinking was that they could use Wheeler and Qualls to bide time until Dotel was ready to go, which current indications are will be sometime after opening day, like May or June.

Lidge's value will never be higher, and you know how fickle closers can be. Look at Keith Foulke: in one year he went from extreme value to low value. Yes, brought on by injury, but just the same....

Were I Hunsicker, I wouldn't regard Lidge as off-limits. I'd let teams know he was available if the deal were attractive enough, and let the offers come to me over the course of the winter. GMs being the way they are, at some point in the next two months someone (like Boston, for example) will panic and overpay for Lidge to Houston's advantage.

[Willie]

Lidge/Everett for Tejada?

Lidge/Taveras for Andruw?

I'm busting a gut laughing but yet wondering at the same time how ANYONE can think these are actual rumors.

Lidge is a elite closer, but for the best SS in the game and the arguable the best CF in the game? GIVE ME A BREAK!

[James]

I think some of you are overvaluing Lidge, which isnt tough to do in the current market. However, he was tied for 8th in Win Shares among all MLB relief pitchers, along with 9 other guys, at 12 WS. A few guys with MORE win shares:

Rivera, Wagner, Turnbow, Nathan, Todd Jones.

A few guys who also had 12 WS:

Fuentes, Valverde, and Mike Timlin.

Compared to Tejada (26), Manny (34), or Andruw (23), Lidge really doenst have comporable value.

[Nick]

Wille-
No one said it made alot of sense, in fact, its says right in the very coulmns that this would be shocking...its no rumor that Tejada is on the block, as is Manny. Reguarding Jones, Braves need a closer and a lead off man...the deal fits, its a money issue. Hope to know more from my sources later, but yes, at face value it does seem a strech, esp. the Jones one.

[RumorMonger]

Adding to what James said, a closer will never match a position player in value just based on playing time alone.

[Hotlanta]

If the Braves get Lidge I think it would have to be in a 3-way trade. The Braves have prospects galore that teams like the Reds or O's might be interested in. I could see the Braves sending the Reds some near big league ready young pitching and the Reds sending Dunn to Houston while Atlanta gets Lidge. I don't see a scenario where the Braves and Astros could pull a straight swap though.

[sturt]

James, speaking of overvaluing, perhaps you should re-evaluate how you regard the "win-share" statistic.

It is only a theorietical measure of a given player's contribution to their own team... that would be the equivalent of "apples."

How the same player would do on a different team with a different combination of players... that would be the equivalent of "oranges."

Don't try to force stats to say more than they actually say... in this case, win-shares.

[James]

Mariano Rivera had 17 win shares, the most among closers. When you compare Lidge to other closers, he wasnt as valuable to his team as those other guys. Rivera put up 17 WS on a team filled with superstars, and the eventual MVP, and he only contributed 17. Thats why no closer is worth nearly as much as a superstar caliber guy like Tejada or Manny. Lidge may have been good in Houston, but thats not to say they'd be at any more of a disadvantage with Wheeler closing games.

Win shares arent the be all, but they are a quality comparison tool. Lidge just doesnt equate for the same value to the Astros as a whole as a guy like Tejada would. On his own team last year, Lidge ranked 11th in WS, behind the likes of Adam Everett and Willy Taveras. Of note also, Dan Wheeler posted 9 win shares in a primary setup position. So he was nearly as valuable as the guy pitching right after him. I suspect there would be very little dropoff from Lidge to Wheeler. Maybe a superficial drop in K/9 or WHIP, but nothing more.

Again, im not an Astros fan, I have no interest in this either way. Im a Phillies fan, and im 99% sure he isnt coming to Philly, so it doesnt matter to me.

[Willie]

Nick, please explain to me how the deal benefits the Braves?

They lose the BEST defensive CF in the game and lose the only true power hitter in their lineup. They do this at the benefit of a poor leadoff hitter with a low OBP and a great closer? How in the blue heck does that benefit them?

You're trying to find something, anything out there and are trying to hold onto some sort of false hope and it's pathetic that you try to pass them off as being somewhat real.

If you think the Lidge/Taveras for Jones rumor holds any water, then that is your own fault.

[sturt]

"Win shares arent the be all, but they are a quality comparison tool"

Comparison tool *within* a team? Yes.

Comparison tool *across different* teams? No.

(I know you aren't the only one using win-shares so liberally, so this isn't to single you out.)

(Even beyond that, there is a substantive debate among baseball statisticians about this win-share thing and how it confounds evaluating closers in particular. I won't go there b/c I don't really know the facts beyond that there is that debate.)

[RumorMonger]

Just wanted to note that Andruw Jones is certainly not the best defensive CF in the game. Several years ago he was, but not now.

[Walt]

Sturt, not trying to nitpick, but what people don't realize is that Wheeler had a lower WHIP (.98) than Lidge (1.15) this season. Wheeler is also a year younger and has displayed some mental toughness that would befit a closer. I'm no expert, but I think Lidge is a luxury that the Astros can't afford, too many needs elsewhere. I foresee Astacio filling in nicely to pitch the 7th if there is a trade. The Astros wouldn't lose much.

Regarding the Braves, they might have been able to work something out with the Astros before the Renteria trade. Jones, may not have been dealt, but a package of Lidge-Everett-Taveras would have made more sense than anything the Astros can now offer.
I think a three-team deal is the only way the Astros acquire a big bat, the aforementioned Braves-Astros-Reds deal makes sense.

[Roughneck]

I usually just ready what people have to say and take from it what I can, but seeing that someone actually thinks that Andrew Jones is "certainly not the best defensive CF in the game" caught my attention. How many Gold Gloves does one person have to win to be considered the best CF in the game? 10? 11? 12? If that is the case then the RumorMonger is right because Jones only has 8 consecutive Gold Gloves. Not to mention his .991 carrer FP.

Andrew Jones falls behind one CF and one CF only. If he even falls behind him. That would be Jim Edmonds. Who ever falls in third place is a distant third place. I for one would love to see Jones in an Astros uniform launching HR's over the Crawford Boxes in Left Field.

Even if Andrew was not the best defensive CF out there is certainly and upgrade from Traveres.

[RumorMonger]

A list of better defenders than Jones in CF include:

Jim Edmonds
Willy Taveras
Vernon Wells
Aaron Rowand

The numbers indicate that Andruw lost a step in 2005. (He started slipping in '04). Do you really think the voters know what they're doing when they evaluate defense in old-fashioned ways and recall how great Jones was four years ago?

Gold Gloves are a poor gauge of talent - Abreu won one this year.

[Walt]

Taveras better than Jones? Willy can run as well as anybody, but he took some bad routes to balls, didn't get good jumps, gave up some bloopers he should have gotten too. Flashed some arm and backed up Lane and Berkman well. Just my observations, but he seemed pretty raw out there.

What stats suggest he was better than Jones defensively? If there is empirical data suggesting he's a superior defender, that bolsters Willy's value considerably.

[RumorMonger]

Well, there's something to those observations. Defensive stats are suspect and Taveras may or may not have had a better '05 than Jones.

But I was looking at Baseball Prospectus Fielding Runs Above Replacement, for what it's worth.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/glossary/index.php?mode=viewstat&stat=141

[Willie]

OMFG....Rowand, Taveras, Wells, you're going to put these guys in the same sentence with a guy who some have compared to Willie Mays defensively?

WTF have ANY of those guys done to even be mentioned in the same breath as a guy of Jones caliber? Moreso Taveras after one effin' season. That's so ridiculous, it's funny.

Any last drop of credibility you had as a baseball fan was slung out the window in that one simple, idiotic reference.

Now I will give you that you can argue Jim Edmonds, but even Edmonds doesn't have the range Jones does.

Do me a favor and the next time you enter Atlanta, get a seat behind the plate or near the OF and watch Andruw. Watch how he consistently can line up where the ball is likely going to be hit. He studies the game so much. Then also watch how at the crack of the bat he gets such a good break on the ball.

That's the one key difference between Edmonds and Jones. The ones Edmonds has to dive for, Jones would be under settling in. Edmonds is spectacular without a doubt, but Jones breaks so much better on the ball than anyone I have ever seen in my entire life.

[RumorMonger]

Typical Braves fan response; didn't expect you to actually look at fielding stats or have an open mind about this. Jones' reputation hasn't declined, but his defense has.

Back up your opinions with anything besides observation...

Fielding stats are garbage. Jones is the best defensive outfielder in the game. To compare him to Taveras is comical. Francoeur could play a better CF than him.

The fact is Jones has only lost a step or two because he has stepped up his game offensively.

Edmonds is good, but like the guy above said, he has to dive for the ones that Druw glides right under.

[RumorMonger]

If fielding stats are garbage, then the biased opinions of hometown fans are even more so.

[James]

Just defensively speaking, id rather have Rowand than both Jones and Edmonds, but thats just me. Jones is a good defensive player, but his reputation is what continues to net him gold gloves. The bottom line is, Palmeroid winning a GG when he played 28 games in the field a few years back cheapened the award beyond belief, and Abreu winning this year proved they just hand out the awards as a joke. Jones is a good CF, but he isnt the best in the game.

This is just like people trying to say how great a CF Juan Pierre was last week.

[CanoandWangDongFan]

How about Cano OR WANG for Lidge?

It would give the Yankees the best pen in the majors.

[Willie]

So stats are now the end all, be all for rating how good defensively a player is? Since when? Train your eye to see what your little calculator cannot.

[RumorMonger]

Yeah, because you've watched every center fielder in the game in person for thousands of innings in order to make a fair comparison. Train your brain to go beyond repeating what Joe Morgan and Tim McCarver told you about Andruw.

[sturt]

Regardless of where he actually and specifically ranks -- a topic of mind-numbing futility since stats are so much more disadvantaged on the defensive side of the ledger -- I know I wouldn't be sad at all to see AJones line up for 81 games at Minute Maid in 06 and longer.

The real debate is whether the Braves feel like the improvement that their baby Braves ought to make in 06 and the palpable improvement in RBI production at SS are sufficient to afford (in terms of wins, not $) the team to put a spectacular end to their closer woes sans Smoltz, and even to gain a more fitting lead off batter whose future is completely in front of him.

In fact, both players are certainly ones who have distinguished themselves at the front of their careers.

I would maintain that there's a credible argument for Schuerholz here, even considering Jones' 2005 production...

1. Jones is making $13 mil in 06 and 13.5 in 07, then is a solid candidate to sell himself to the highest bidder on the market.

2. As recently as June 2004, was considered trade bait for a (*cough*) Magglio Ordonez trade b/c of Jones' salary and "inconsistent production"

So, looking at the entirety of the situation -- and not just Jones' 2005 production -- this is hardly a trade to be dismissed out of hand. It may need some minor-league-player tweaking as trades often are apt to need, but it nonetheless is a reasonable match.

[Scott]

Some of you are out of your mind if you think the Braves would trade the current homerun champ and the current RBI champ, not to mention a gold glove centerfielder. Andruw Jones for a closer? LMFAO! Lidge isn't even the best closer in the league. Andruw fits in fine with the Braves payroll, some of you act as if the Braves are the Tampa Bay Devil Rays just because they didn't give Furcal 13 million a year. When the Braves want a player they go out and get him and pay him. I would doubt very seriously that they would trade Giles for Lidge, because they have no one in the farm system that is ready to step in at second. Even then I doubt they would trade Giles. Giles will be just fine leading off. He had a better OBP than Furcal and he led off in 2001 when he was a rookie when Furcal tore his shoulder up.

Seriously, Andruw Jones for Brad Lidge? Fans would burn down Turner Field if that crap would happen and John Schuerholtz would be sent to the insane asylum.

[sturt]

He was the HR and RBI champ?

In 2005???

You're joshin meeeee.

No really, Andruw Jones???

Sure is a good thing we all have Scott here to keep us informed. That Scott... he's so smart.