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Olney: Boston Tracking Lidge

In his blog today, Buster Olney mentioned that the Red Sox are still interested in Houston closer Brad Lidge.  This rumor dates back to July.

Lidge's control and HR rate slipped last year, though he was still dominant in terms of racking up strikeouts.  Olney indicates that the Astros aren't shopping him and the Red Sox would have to overpay, perhaps with Jacoby Ellsbury, Craig Hansen, and more.

Additionally, Peter Gammons mentioned a couple days ago that Chad Qualls might be a target for Boston.

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I don't see why the Astros would want Ellsbury, seems like they have enough young guys to handle CF. Unless they think Pence can't do the job defensively.

I would think that Houston would want Lester.

i want the stros to keep lidge, but i'd seriously consider dealing him if the offer was lester and hansen. i don't think that would happen though

Lester would be the guy.

Ellsbury would put Pence at his more natural RF and probably put Luke Scott out of a job long term. Ellsbury would be the best def. option for the Astros, but they've never put a big premium on defense at that position (Berkman, Hidalgo, Burke, Biggio). Ellsbury's offensive skills are a bit redundant with Burke's, and I think the Astros prefer the idea of Pence in center and Scott or some other slugger in right. They actually have depth in the OF now, especially with Berkman's ability to play LF and RF in a pinch, with Loretta and Lamb on the bench.

They want a starter.

People have to remember, if the Sox were willing to trade their young prospects for a closer, they would already have at least one, probably more than that.

Ellsbury, Buchholz, Lester, probably Bowden - all of them are not available.

The Red Sox completely overvalue their prospects and think they all are going to turn out to be all stars and that they as an organization are smarter than everyone else. It's a disgrace that they are entering a season with no good option for the 8th and 9th. They don't even have a legit set up man and don't give me Timlin or were you blind when he was being shelled the 2nd half of last season night after night.

Theo thinks his picks are all destined for greatness and that's admirable, but he's putting emphasis on the future and not on the present. In 2-3 years, Ortiz and Manny won't be the same and may not even be on the team and the only reason the Sox are a feared contender is because of those 2 hitters. You take them out of the lineup and I don't care how well they pitch, they won't win. God forbid one of them go down this season with an injury and this season is lost.

If Theo thinks his drafting acumen is so brilliant, then he should be willing to part with a couple of his top prospects since he'll draft replacements for them in the future and can help this team win now.

If giving up Hansen, Delcarmen, Lester, Ellisbury, Bard or Buuckholz could help this team get a major league bullpen and closer, he needs to deal from that depth for one and not worry about what they may do in the future. That's how you win a championship.

Look at the Mets from the early 90's--there wasn't an GM in the league that wasn't drooling over Paul Wilson, Izzy and Bill Pulshipher and only one of those three turned out to be truly above average in Izzy. Still, the Mets could have traded any of those 3 for legit impact players and pitchers that would have helped them win. In retro, I think they would choose to do things differently.

The Red Sox are making a mistake trying to low ball teams, not give away prospects and pull those ridiculous 3 way deals of theirs that get so complicated they fall apart.

If they could get Lidge or Wheeler or Linebrink with a big package of their most popular prospects, they owe it to their fans who pay the highest ticket prices in the game to do it.

This season will be a disaster if they try to get 7-8 innings a night out of their starters. Papelbon's shoulder will be shot for sure then.

dude that speech almost brought a tear to my eye. well said. i think everyone overvalues their teams' prospects, but the sox arrogance makes me sick. they could have acquired todd helton for delcarmen (who doesn't have a high ceiling), and chad cordero for like hansen and lester. trade ellsbury (also overrated) for linebrink and that's a helluva baseball team they'd have.

but on second thought the hell with winning rings now, i enjoy bragging about my long term plan and fantasizing about having a good team in the future

"If giving up Hansen, Delcarmen, Lester, Ellisbury, Bard or Buuckholz could help this team get a major league bullpen and closer, he needs to deal from that depth for one and not worry about what they may do in the future. That's how you win a championship."

- Because that philosophy has been such a winner for the Yankees over the last few years.

Everyone overvalues their prospects, but i think you are missing some information.

Nationals wanted Buchholz+ for Cordero, thats not really the same as Lester.

Also in this market, I would agree to keep every young starter you have, unless you like the idea of having 10million dollar mediocrities on your team.

Helton is such a bad deal, its not even worth a young bullpen arm. The Sox don't need him, they don't want him diminishing HR Totals, and sure don't want an aging 1B on a 4year contract with a no trade clause. This isn't a short term fix, long term is nails the Sox, and there isn't a thing they can do about it.


You keep the prospects because if one or 2 work out, then you are set, you have great young talent at a cheap price, thats how you win a championship (look at the Phillies around Howard and Utley) Marlins Cabrera - Willis.

You can sell out and MAYBE win one today, but you have nothing for the future, why not keep your talent, and have a revolving door team, that is always providing new young talent, and you can give yourself the best chance to win every year for a decade. Look how many championships the Yankees won in their stretch.

And people talk like not having a name closer is going to ruin Boston, it isn't. Some of the names being thrown around are not even any good

if the nats wanted bucholz instead of lester that sounds like an even better deal for the sox b/c bucholz isn't as ready as lester (although i'll give you that bowden's demands are rediculous). but if you have a chance to plug a big whole on your team like that then why not trade a few prospects for him. especially if the sox depth is as good as they try to make it seem.

the sox have dice-k, beckett, and paplebon locked up for a few years, schilling and wakefield will probably be back next season. what's the point of stockpiling young arms if you're not gonna use them?

As an Astro fan I would love to see them trade Lidge for Lester and/or a few prospects, but I don't see it happening. Lidge has like a 13.50 ERA this spring and although Garner says he is still the closer I see him losing that job before June. If you Sox fans want him you can have him. Qualls on the other hand has been improving with every inning of work and personally I value his game over Lidge, lower K rate or not.

2003- David Murphy
Matt Murton
Johnathan Papelbon

2004- Dustin Pedroia
Cla Meredith
Tommy Hottovy

2005- Jacoby Ellsbury
Craig Hansen
Clay Buchholz
Micheal Bowden

2006- Jason Place
Daniel Bard
Bryce Cox
Lars Anderson

These are just some picks from the drafts Theo has ran. So far Hansen has been rushed to the minors
and had a lot of trouble, but out of the drafts that Theo has ran we've only seen Papelbon and Pedroia
reach the majors. Pedroia is expected by everyone and their mother to be a servicable high obp 2nd baseman, not an allstar
by any means but a decent big league player. Papelbon was flat out historically dominant
last year and is now moving into a role deemed more important to the teams success.
Matt Murton was part of the 2004 deadline deal that helped the Red Sox win a world series, plus with a .365 OBP has to be near the best OBP player for the cubbies and David Murphy is finally starting to live up to his potential and gaining a lot of interest from other teams.
Silly Theo for beliving that young pitching obviously the most valuable asset in baseball
shouldn't be traded for a mid 30's 1b with an albatross of a contract or for 8th-9th inning guys
with big contracts when building a bullpen is the hardest freaking thing to do in baseball.
Everybody went off last year about it being Keith Foulke and Mike Timlin at the back of the bullpen and then suprising to everyone who isn't a diehard follower of the Red Sox Papelbon comes out of nowhere and gives us a season to remember. The Red Sox have internal options to take care of the bullpen problem. Brendan Donnelly has looked good this spring, Mike Timlin was injured most of last year and said repeatedly had it been an option for him to go on the DL he wouldn't have been pitching. I watched
Manny Delcarmen come up through the minors and I think he can succeed my opinion may be tainted because he is a person
that is pretty hard to route against. Maybe he and Hansen need another 1/2 season in the minors to figure some things out.
Cla Meredith got traded away and look what he went on to do. Bowden asked for Buchholz a potentional #1 and Hansen a closer
in his own right for Cordero, thats just a retarded trade, even if scouts weren't convinced that a move from RFK to Fenway would destroy his stats.

I believe Baseball America said that in 2005, and 2006 the Red Sox drafted the best out of all
the major league teams. So with the 2003 and 2004 draftees contributing in the majors "trade ellsbury (also overrated) for
linebrink" might not be the best idea. Lets trade away a guy being compared to Johnny Damon for a setup man. These draft picks have been all been accrued during years that the Red Sox were repeatedly in the playoffs contending for a title. They didn't tank at any time and get to draft a sweet draft position, hell in 2004 they didn't even have a 1st round pick. If a deal comes along that makes sense I am sure Theo will pull the trigger but he isn't going to mortgage young arms on a bad trade. People are still ragging him for the Beckett deal and most dont have any idea who Jesus Delgado and Harvey Garcia are or how good they have the potential to be.

Yes, the Yanks have dealt a good number of prospects but most of them haven't amounted to much. Rivera and NJ were dealt for Vazquez, an ace at that time. Yeah, for a young ace, well, you've got to give up some good pieces. Soriano, not even a prospect at that time, nor were Rivera and NJ but whatever, was dealt for A-Rod. Absolutely horrendous drafts had a lot more to do with the farm featuring few prospects worth mentioning.

The Redsoxs have Drew, Willy Mo, Manny and Crisp signed for 2+ years in all cases.. so where's is Ellsbury or Murphy going to play? Why not trade either Ellsbury or Pena for a closer? Even if it seems to be a bad trade 4 years down the road for success now. There will be no opportunity for playing time until 2009 for Ellsbury or Murphy and limited for Pena, unlesss of injuries, but the Soxs have plenty of hinged bets all ready on Offense and very little to none in bullpen strength.

the sox already tried the closer by committee aproach a few years ago with negative results. bucholz is a POTENTIAL #1 guy. cordero IS CURRENTLY an all-star closer. the trade wouldn't look lopsided in a few years if the sox still have a really good rotation. if their rotation is still dominant then who cares what bucholz becomes

the helton trade isn't necessarily a must have for the sox, but they could should make a move for late inning bullpen help if they can

Olney's talking about Qualls as a Red Sox target again today. The only thing the Astros want from the Red Sox is a starter or Hanley Ramirez (too bad). Lester's the only realistic target. He's no Wandy Rodriguez, but he'll do.

Ellsbury is who the Sox are going to use as their heir apparent to Coco Crisp out their in Center Field. Now Dodgerboy12, your credibility about the Sox is hindered in two ways, first your a dodger fan, and second you spelled it Redsoxs, which is as comical as it is sad. Murphy is more likely to be dealt this year, seeing how he has impressed many scouts this spring with the extra bulk he has put on. He does not figure to be a big part of the Sox plans for the future, and he is starting to get to be old in terms of a prospect, so trading him either before the season or before the trade deadline seems likely. The Marlins seem to be the team that is drooling over him (then again they've been drooling over ANYONE who can actually play center field). Also, Ellsbury still needs some seasoning, he's not ready and the Sox have seen that this spring, which is why he was cut so early. Another season down in AAA and a September call-up, may warrent for him fighting for a starting job next season. If Coco Crisp has another subpar season, look for him to even possibly be traded, even more if Wily Mo has a good season, he can give competition to Ellsbury in spring training '08.
Now to the topic of Theo's drafting. Theo has every right to be proud of his drafting, he acqured a lot of talent in the drafts, including a lot of steals. He got Craig Hansen in a draft where he was a top 10 pick, but they got him late in the first round. Pedroia was also a steal as he was supposed to go in the first round. Lars Anderson was a late first 2nd round maybe third round pick with a lot of raw power that the Sox got in the 18th round due to him claiming he was going to college. Jason Place was not a late round pick, and yet he fell to the Red Sox, along with Daniel Bard. The Sox drafting is one of the best attributes of this new front office, and they have every right to boast it. Yeah, not all of them will become studs in the majors, but if just a couple do, it was better then trading them off for old superstars with monster contracts, like the Yankees do. Also, look at the Yankee Dynasty in the late 90's. How did they win so much? They did it by building up the farm system, and having guys like Mariano, Jeter, Posada, Pettite. Those were huge keys to their victories, and the Sox front management realizes this which is why they imply that mentality to building a winner.

the difference between those two clubs is that the yankees sucked when those guys came up. they had too many holes to fill. theo may have done a good job drafting value in recent years, but that doesn't mean much. colt griffin was taken #9 overall a few years ago b/c he could hit triple digits in high school, and i bet nobody's heard of him. on the other hand, roy oswalt was taken in the like the 23 round of his draft and look at what he's become.

prospects are prone to flame out, and since the sox have a big need that they could fill to get them over the hump, why not go for it.

and dude, criticizing people for typos is retarded, as is saying their credibility is shot b/c he's not a sox fan. most of the people on this site know what they're talking about; you're just illustrating an earlier point about how sox fans are extra high on their own prospects

They're not looking to do that because they see in the last few years, other then themselves in 2004, the closer has emerged later in the year. Wainwright last year, Jenks 2 years ago, Urbina 4 years ago. That's something they see with either Craig Hansen, or even Bryce Cox.

Right, the Redsox overvalue their prospects. Hanley, Freddie, Anibel and Cla say Hi! Most people close to the situation realize that Helton is not something I would trade a top-flight reliever for. And talk about prospects flaming out, relievers are the most flakey bunch going, again, I wouldn't give up much for Lidge. They have until the ASB to worry about the closer situation and then, with all the depth, they can make something happen quick. Count me as a RS fan that is not worried in the least.

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