Johan Santana Rumors

Make it stop! Make it stop! I will pay a year of Santana's salary just to get the deal done and behind us!

i dont even care really if the yankees sign this man for a dollar, im tired of talking about this, nothing changes. im tired of fighting the same guys, it always feels like we are all saying the same crap to each other.

THIS JUST IN..

Marvel has scaled back their demands for Spiderman, at least with DC Comics. They are now willing to substitute the Wonder Twins for the Flash. So DC would have to give up Green Lantern, Aquaman, and The Wonder Twins (and probably Gleek the monkey too).

Some think this is just a ploy to get Dark Horse Comics to give up Blade along with Alien Vs Predator.

"Matthew Cerrone has been saying this for some time."

I think everyone has been saying all of this for some time. This just needs to stop.

levelboss, that was great. haha.

I agree about this information. Matt has had roughly forty or fifty different snipits on Santana. And each time, hundreds of people leave comments about the trading chips, why the Mets don't have the talent. Word to the Twins, just trade him already.

I do think he will either be traded to the Mets or stay put with the Twins for the rest of the year.

This just in...

Marvel wants DC to include Batman in any deal for Spiderman. It is thought that Marvel is willing to include a lesser X-Man such as Ice Man to get the deal done. Wolverine appears to be out of the question.

"I do think he will either be traded to the Mets or stay put with the Twins for the rest of the year."

Not a chance in hell he stays the whole year. That would be flat out dumb.

Thats not really true. They've gotten involved in basically every major trade, or free agent acquisition the Yankees have been a part of. To either drive up the price, or prevent a player from going to the Bronx. They drove up the Contreras money, the pavano money, they were involved in discussions about Abreu, etc and it works both ways. The Yankees offered Damon that 4/52 because he was a valued addition, but it also screwed the Sox as an added bonus.

This Johan talk is almost depressing, we have had it to good as Twins fans the past few years...

Remember who Rich Robertson was? Some do, and still cherish his memories.
www.sharkshellfish.com

Sure its annoying that the Twins won't pull the trigger, but they know the Red Sox aren't going to pull their current offer off the table because they Yanks could then step in with their original offer, giving them Santana for a package less than what they were offering. They're just holding out for the Yanks/Mets to trump Boston's offer, and if that doesn't come to fruition, they'll take the Sox offer. It's annoying, but they know who they're dealing with and know the Sox aren't going to pull their offer and hand Johan over to the Yanks.

UPDATE..

Nothing really new on the Spiderman market. A source claims that Dark Horse Comics is the "strong favorite", and DC seems to be backing down from its new offer of Green Lantern, Aquaman, and the Wonder Twins.

Marvel wants to resign Spidey, but they'll have to do better than four years and $80MM though.

What do these four packages have in common?

YANKEES:
Hughes, Cabrera, Marquez.

RED SOX:
Lester, Lowrie, Masterson.

METS:
Pelfrey, Gomez, Humber.

TWINS:
Garza, Bartlett, Morlan.

In all of these packages that have been mentioned there is a similiar group of three. 1)Stud pitcher. 2)Decent hitter. 3)Pitching prospect.

Now if the Twins were actually shopping for a pitcher like Santana...could they get his for a package of Garza, Bartlett, and Morlan?

Possibly. The major hang up in trading for Santana is no team want to sign him for 7yrs until he is 36 yrs old.

It seems to me that trio that the Twins shipped to Tampa Bay are similiar to the packages they have been offered from the Yankees, Red Sox, and Mets.

Are the Twins simply trying to replace those three spots: 1)Stud pitcher. 2)Decent hitter. 3)Pitching prospect?

No matter what, the Twins are in a poor position for next year. They have already lost Hunter, Silva, Garza, Barlett, Tyner, and soon Santana. It seems to me that they are just trying to replace the young players they sent over for Delmon Young.

What do you all think here? Would you take the Garza, Bartlett, and Morlan package over any of the trios from the Yankees, Red Sox or Mets?

I think the Twins package is very close to all of these rumored players. Because in evaluating the future merit of trading Santana they must consider the likelihood of the main prospect becoming a stud. I feel that Garza has a better chance of suceeding than Lester or Pelfrey, but not Hughes.

The #2-3 players included in all the above offers are role players who are unlikely to become all-stars.

PS: I did not include Crisp in the Boston package because I believe he is a throw-in. The Red Sox do not want to keep him and there has been little interest in trading him for anything decent. I view Crisp as a excellent defensive CF, whose bat is aging and who amounts to a 2/yr 10 million veteran free agent signing.

In regards to the #2 players offered:

Carlos Gomez is not all-star material. The guy has only hit in the .280 range with a high of 8 hrs in 500+ at bats.

I think Cabrera is a better overall hitter and decent young CF.

Bartlett has excellent range and speed at SS.

Lowrie is the sleeper here, I like his .410 obp last year. He will be a 2B.

And the power should probably come sooner or later also. This guy is a big kid. He is still kind of skinny though, he should bulk up a little bit by the time he gets to around 25 or so.

UPDATE:

Sources indicate that Dark Horse comics have put Hellboy and the Star Wars license on the table in Spiderman trade talks with Marvel.

Buster Olney believes we could see a resolution to Spidey trade talks within the next 24 hours.

UPDATE:

DC is making a recent push for spider-man, throwing in Wonder Woman into the mix along with Super Man and The Green Lantern. However, Dark Horse's addition of the Star Wars license may make DC's hopes of acquiring everyone's favorite web-slinger now seem doubtful.

Scott Boras has said nothing about the rumored Star Wars license offer in the Spidey trade talks.

As it stands, Dark Horse has only Alien Vs Predator (nothing about Hellboy) on the table for Spidey; DC stands by its Green Lantern, Aquaman, and Wonder Twins offer.

Spidey is expected to reject Marvel's 4yr/$80MM extension.

Web slinger trade talks seem to be dissolving as the super heroes union indicates that it will not allow Batman to defer any of his current $250 million contract, despite the heroes willingness to do so. The caped crusader has indicated that he would prefer to battle evil for Marvel rather than DC.

Todd McFarlane is quietly emerging as a Dark Horse offering up a package centered around Spawn and the Violator. He apparently has a soft spot for Spidey since his days with Marvel. Most officials close to the situation doesn't the McFarlane has the pieces to compete with DC and Dark Horse, but people within his organization remain quietly confident.

What do you think of swapping in Ian Kennedy for Phil Hughes and adding some more prospects to the list? Let's say

1. Ian Kennedy
2. Melky Cabrera
3. Alan Horne
4. Brett Gardner
5. Jeff Marquez

for Johan Santana? That's 2 major league ready players including 4 top 15 prospects in the Yankee organization for the best pitcher in baseball, for any other team that could mean stripping the farm and ruining the future but in a system as stacked as the Yankees' I think its a pretty fair trade.

So that's saying that Phil Hughes is worth Ian Kennedy, Alan Horne and Brett Gardner, I think a future ace in Hughes is worth a future number 2-3 starter with possible ace production in Kennedy, a 3-4 starter or solid setup man in Horne and an average to above average outfielder in Gardner. If they ask for more than that I would even throw in a another lesser prospect. Or... even better imagine a package of the following:

1. Melky Cabrera
2. Jeff Karstens
3. Alan Horne
4. Austin Jackson
5. Dellin Betances
6. Damon Sublett
7. Jeff Marquez
8. Juan Miranda/Zach McAllister

This is a pretty huge haul, wouldn't you say? That's two major league ready players in Melk-man and Karstens, and 5 top 15 prospects including 3 top 5, not to mention McAllister/Miranda are ranked in most top 25's. Is this too much? Maybe we could get away with offering less, like making it a 6-7 player deal, subtracting Marquez and/or Miranda/McAllister? Ask the Twins, but I highly doubt it. Either way I hope you catch my drift... we can give them quantity while still providing much quality. They are asking for 2 major league ready players, we give them Melky and maybe they would take Moose, Karstens or Igawa as the other? An 8 player deal huh? We would likely ask for some prospects back but wouldn't get any value in them.

Imagine being able to keep the big 3 and adding Santana? You would be killing the farm, but it's so stacked that the Yankees still have some sort of life. Doing this could even move Joba to the bullpen and our rotation would be:

1. Santana
2. Wang
3. Pettitte
4. Hughes
5. IPK/Moose

IPK could even be the long man/spot starter to limit innings, and then when Moose falls apart he could take over as the number 5. Sign Texiera next year to clear up the first base problems, heck if the Twins want another big bat give them Giambi for a year as a filler even pay his entire contract, with Joba able to fill the 8th we could even give the Twins Farnsworth if they want so they could trade Nathan (to us hopefully as part of the Santana deal) and get even more prospects. Or we could just give them a bunch of fillers and add Moose to the mix (if he'd waive his no-trade) We saw the Diamondbacks get Haren and a throw in for 6 players, none of which seem to be major leaugue ready. So imagine another scenario:

1. Mike Mussina
2. Melky Cabrera
3. Jeff Karstens
4. Kyle Farnsworth

5. Alan Horne
6. Austin Jackson
7. Dellin Betances
8. Damon Sublett
9. Jeff Marquez
10. Juan Miranda/Zach McAllister

Is a 10 person trade even possible? Obviously we would be getting Santana plus Nathan in this deal, maybe something else too, like a lefty reliever or 4th outfielder, doubt it. We would also have to send cash to cover Moose's contract as well as Farnsworthless'. Unless we get Nathan, I would stick to the 6-8 prospect trade listed before this one. We would be swapping 2 one year contracts in Mussina and Farnsworth for a one year contract in Nathan, not to mention we would be adding some amazing talent to their farm while also allowing them to contend somewhat in '08. Mussina and Karstens fill out their rotation, filling the void left by the departures of Silva and Garza, I actually think Mussina and Karstens will do better in '08 than the combination of Silva and Garza. Yet, the Twins become the '07 Yankees and have no true ace; Santana's void is filled by the farm system that has just become one of the best in the league, as well as the return of Liriano. Nathan's void is filled either through the farm system or some magical reinvention of Kill Farnsworth. Imagine this for the Yankees then...

SP:
1. Santana
2. Wang
3. Pettitte
4. Hughes
5. IPK
CL: Mo
Setup: Joba, Nathan
Relivers: Hawkins, Albadejo, Ohlendorf, Britton/Igawa (Igawa is a situational lefty/long-man)?
All of a sudden our bullpen is the best in the league, as is our starting pitching. Our lineup barely takes a hit as well, our farm system may be somewhat depleted, but nothing too damning... we still have an average at worst system.

Lineup:
1. Damon (CF)
2. Jeter (SS)
3. Abreu (RF)
4. Arod (3B)
5. Cano (2B)
6. Posada (C)
7. Matsui (LF)
8. Giambi/Duncan (DH)
9. Minky/Betemit (1B)

Until we sign Teixera to a 5-7 year contract with an average salary of approximately $20-25 million we could sign Minky to a 1-year $1.5 million contract and have him and Betemit handle the bulk of 1B duties while having Giambi and Duncan switch off at DH. That's some nice platoon action for both DH and 1B. I think that leaves us 2 more spots? We could add more bullpen help, or sign two more bench players preferably an outfielder who can handle center in case Damon gets injured. Maybe bring back Bernie for the 4th outfielder spot unless anyone sees a better option?

Now a lot of this is just me messing around, but who knows, I think some is at least feasible. We, of course, sell out and strip our entire farm system for Santana, yet we keep the big 3 which is fine by me, since we won't be needing any pitching prospects for at least another 10 years... and we can always just buy Cy Young winner C.C. Sabathia in '09 in the range of 4-6 years and an average salary of approximately $15-20 million annually. The only gaping hole with the Santana trade is the void in the outfield defense left by Melky's departure, but he was part of all the trade talks anyway, plus above average fielders with average bats are a dime a dozen. You know what else is a dime a dozen? $4 million contracts for relievers that can't pitch... cough... Killin' Me Farnsworth.

THOUGHTS?

WoW... It’s a little early to be drinking isn’t it?

I am watching you spend and spend and spend. Just to be clear what you are suggesting here:

In 09’
Sabathia 10-15 per
Santana 20 per
Teixeira 20-25 per
Nathan - at what 10-12 per that he would get?
Some outfielder to fill the Melky hole - at what per year?

That’s 50 Million just using the lowest numbers, for 2009 with just Tex, CC, and Santana and that doesn’t include re-signing Nathan who is a free agent in '09 or the outfield hole. EVEN If the twins pull off the trade of Santana/Nathan. The Yankees would be paying the Devil Rays and Marlins team salaries just in Luxury Tax.

I would rather read about comic book hero trades which are much more likely than this.

I give you an A for imaginagtion but an F for forward thinking.

"What do you think of swapping in Ian Kennedy for Phil Hughes and adding some more prospects to the list? Let's say

1. Ian Kennedy
2. Melky Cabrera
3. Alan Horne
4. Brett Gardner
5. Jeff Marquez"

What do you think of swapping Michael Bowden for Jon Lester and adding somemore prospects to the list? Let's say.

1. Bowden
2. Coco Crisp
3. Dustin Richardon
4. Ryan Kalish
5. Kris Johnson

Thoughts?

To drive home the point that people may not be picking up Theo Epstein would then bend Bill Smith over a desk, and play the part of Zedd in Pulp Fiction.

you know what should happen, we throw all the reporters who report a different thing everyday, like the yanks are close, the sox are close, nobody is close, we lock them all in a room with a big club in the middle of the room, they can kick the ever loving crap out of each other, and the last man standing is the one we can believe since none of them have been right so far. i think this method if anything would be really funny to atleast see...

I have to side with quintjs and Twins777 (funny video by the way) on this one. Throwing in 6 or 8 mediocre prospects and one reasonable one isn’t going to get it done. This is Johan Santana we are talking about. A guy who turns 29 in March and has a career 93-44 record with an ERA of 3.22. 1381 Ks and only 364 BB in 1308 Innings. Yes the team that gets him is going to have to pay a handsome salary to him to retain him but... it’s not like they are getting Carlos Silva. Who as you know got a 4 year $48 Mil contract. In that light 6-120 Mil seems pretty damn reasonable. He will only be 35 when a 6 year deal is done.

I don’t think that the Hughes package or the Lester package are unreasonable for who they are getting. Yes its only 1 extra year for him but for the Yankees in my opinion, it’s the only chance they have at beating the Sox. If the Sox get him... just start lining up the trophies.

twins777.... hilarious. Its funny, because there have been more then a few instances where that quote is incredibly fitting to a response to a poster. I have used that one once or twice myself. Goodjob though, that cracks me up every time.

"A simple wrong would have done just fine, but okay."

nrmax,

“Its funny how A-rod gets grief for asking for big money even though he is the best player in baseball and dominates every year, simply because he hasnt won a world series.”

The only difference between Johan and A-Rod is that A-Rod was a free agent. He was up to the highest bidder. Johan with the NTC can hold the Twins Hostage.

He wants to go to Sox/Yankees as he sees them as the best chance to win a WS. Which if he goes to teh Sox is absolutly true. He also wants to be able to be paid by that team too. (but if he goes to LAA I would think he could there).

Granted Johan hasnt won a world series but neither did Nolan Ryan. Ryan was quite a pitcher back in the day, but as you obviously know it’s a team game. Even a fully roided Clemens and Johan together couldn’t win a WS in Tampa. :-)

Now as for A-Rod he is generally one of the best players in the regular season but who would you want batting in the post season? A-Rod or Derek Jeter?

I won’t argue the Johan Diva thing, someone has gotten in his head. I don’t know what is up with that.

"Sorry to harp on this but when it was time for the Rangers to Trade A-Rod, he would only go to the Yankees. He did kind of hold a gun to thier head. Not that Tom Hicks didn't deserve it."

That is flat out just not true. He was in fine tuning of being a member of the Red Sox when Lucchino opened his fat mouth, trashed the players union and screwed up the deal.

It was Manny/Lester for A-rod and cash.

He didn't hold a gun to anybodies head, he was willing to give back money and restructure his deferred payments to get out of Texas.

I still think he used the players union to make sure the Yankees deal happened. The deal with the Red Sox was better for the Rangers so why didnt it go through? IMHO he wanted to be a Yankee.

While management's top labor lawyer had hinted that Selig might approve the rejected deal, Rodriguez made clear Thursday morning he would go to Boston only with an agreement that met the union's approval.

Because Rodriguez has a no-trade clause, a deal can't happen without his approval.

"In the spirit of cooperation, I advised the Red Sox I am willing to restructure my contract, but only within the guidelines prescribed by union officials," Rodriguez said in a statement he read to the Associated Press during a Thursday telephone call. "I recognize the principle involved, and fully support the need to protect the interests of my fellow players.

"If my transfer to the Red Sox is to occur, it must be done with consideration of the interests of all major league players, not just one."

(How on gods green earth does this affect the other players? Its Crap)

NRMAX I wont argue that point, but if a player wants to change the deferment or anything AFTER the contract is signed who else does it hurt? I mean its his money and you know the deferment changes will only increase the total value of the contract as I am sure they will include interest.

I guess that is my point.

"Its funny how A-rod gets grief for asking for big money even though he is the best player in baseball and dominates every year, simply because he hasnt won a world series. What about Johan? One could argue the 7/140 he is asking for is more unreasonable then Arods demands because Arod doesnt pitch, and plays everyday. Johan hasnt exactly dominated the post season, not horrible, but just average, sort of like A-Rod. How come we dont hear how Santana has never won a world series and blah blah? Just doesnt seem fair. And to me, Johan is acting like more of a diva then A-rod has. I dont remember A-Rod ever literally holding his team captive and saying I will only play here and here and only if they give me huge money and all these demands."

Nrmax- there is a lot more pressure on A-rod to win a world sereis in NY because the Yankees contend every year and have a high payroll. & I cant find Johan Santana's post-season numbers but i believe that they are actually good aside from his record because of lousy run support. He isn't a choker like A-rod.

A-Rod,

The original Big Texas Contract was so complicated it made the tax code seem simple. I cant begin to specuate the garbage. Only Brown M&Ms and his hotel room has to be on the north side of the building so the sun dosent shine in the window etc.. :-)

As for I would agree that if money was going back then there is no way the league would go for it. The DFW press ripped him something fierce so I am not sure what was actually going on. Other than I was glad he left.

Santana has an era right around 4 for the postseason. Not horrible, but not Santana like, although his numbers recently have been better. I am just saying, Santana is still asking for tons of money and he hasnt won a WS. If it was A-rod then people would say but he hasnt won a world series. Calling A-Rod a choker is also ignorant. If you put up his numbers against Ortiz in clutch situations they are very similar. Of course A-rod hasnt had Ortiz's post season success, but he will win a world series, I gauruntee it. Anybody who doesnt think the Yankees wont win atleast one world series in the next 10 years is kidding themselves. People called Peyton Manning a choker this time last year.

I would love to take your bet on that Max. I would love for A-Rod to make half a billion dollars in MLB and never win a Ring. But.. I dont have the stones to take that bet. The Yankees will probalby win a WS in the next 10 years. I just hope that the Cubs win one before he does. :-)