Cardinals Leaning Towards Keeping Barton

Drop Juan. He is just an injury prone steroid freak. I remember he made the Indians. Then had 1 AB and was done. But he made his money for making the team in Spring Training.

Booo!

I think they have to keep Juan because he, umm…well…he’s a proven winner! And I hear Pujols and Molina like him a lot! I think the choice is just obvious, you have to send Barton back to the Tribe

:)

"I think its a pretty obvious choice here: Would you rather have veteran leadership in the clubhouse especially since you aren't making the playoffs and who will get injured easily or a guy who could contribute if you give him the playing time and could help in a year or 2? "

Yes, I agree ~ the Cards MUST keep Juan and send Barton back to the Indians

:)

Strauss doesn't think that Cleveland would make a trade for Barton.

However, there are two reason to think that they would. 1) They left him off of the 40 man roster knowing that he would get picked in the Rule 5 draft. 2) The outfield in Buffalo is already full. (Ben Francisco, Trevor Crowe and Brad Snyder plus Shin-Soo Choo in May)

The Cardinals could be doing Cleveland a favor by holding onto Barton right now. Just because he makes to opening day roster doesn't mean that he will stick with the team. He is going to have to stay moderately productive, given limited playing time. Not easy for a young player. And he is going to have to avoid getting caught in a numbers crunch. For example, who will the Cards send down when they need and extra pitcher or infielder?

I think that Cards would be wise to strike a deal for Barton before the spring is over.

Yeah, Tony Larussa hates young players....that's why he's had SIX Rookie of the Years under his watch.

darkstarr-

You are missing my point. I am not saying that Cleveland couldn't find a place for Barton. Of course, they could.

I was commenting on Strauss's doubts about trading for Barton. Leaving him off the 40 man and having a logjam at the position indicate availability.

Also, I think that the time to make that trade is now (from STL's perspective). I don't think that Cleveland would be up for trading Barton, if they have a couple of injuries or players under-performing.

Devlsh just because he has had six ROY's under his watch doesnt mean anything...Those players could have been 28 when they finally made it...

DIY: They year that Pujols won ROY LaRussa wanted to send him down that year? In spring training he didnt want Albert to make the roster...Yeah he loves young players...That is why he is constantly giving them tounge lashings in the media...Hey! Anthony Reyes...You have no out pitch...Instead of teaching him one they tell him that he needs on and that he needs to develop one...Yeah good help there.

Last year when Brendan Ryan swung out of his shoes on a 3-0 count LaRussa publicly bashed him... LaRussa needs to be gone! I wish to god they didnt bring him back this year but they did.

This year, instead of letting Brendan Ryan play SS, he brings back Miles, signs Izturis...Izturis cant hit for crap...Id rather let Ryan play and get some experience this year. Sadly the Cards are only going to win around 72 games this year.

The Cards said they went with a youth movement...Yeah right...Thats why they are going to give this roster spot to Juan instead of Barton. Barton has played better, and LaRussa just loves Juan because of what he has done in the past...

first thing typekey is worthless. i sign in, it says im signed in for 2 weeks and then it kicks me off. worthless. ok aduncaroo, are u joking or serious? it would make sense. also theman i know u r a cards fan but im not sure about what u r saying. ryan was good last year but who knows what u have with him. izturis cant hit thats for sure but man his defense is nice. big change from eckstein. i agree tony doesnt like younger players but barton is still making the team. also no larussa? what? who would be our manager then? exactly.

ThatTeam,

Oh, my bad ~ I thought you were implying they couldn’t/didn’t want to make it work and left him unprotected because of that… Otherwise, we are thinking along the same lines…

JoelCards,

Come on, you have to realize those posts were anything but serious. I mean, I thought I made it about as clear as possible ~ esp with the smiley faces and all…

But you are correct with your TypeKey thing!

I couldn't think of more managers...Maybe Oquendo...I really just want a manager like Whitey Herzog again...Someone who is not afraid to use small ball...LaRussa does it occasionally but not enough. And batting the pitcher 8th is stupid. This isnt little league.

Their is so many things wrong with the way LaRussa is but the main reason why I want him gone is because I believe he causes some termoil in the locker room.

We all know about the Rolen thing. But not many people know that shortly after Rolen was traded, LaRussa went to this media thing and he went up to talk @ the podeum and said "Everyone knows how much I hate reporters but if I didnt come I was told I had to play golf with Scott Rolen..." And that was after he was traded.

Then as much as I hate Kennedy and dont think he should be or 2B and thought it was an awful signing last year, he calls him out in the media. What LaRussa needs to do is keep that stuff in the club house and call him into his office...Dont do a channel 5 interview and say well Kennedy better step it up cuz he sucked last year.

Then recently calling out Reyes saying he didnt have an out pitch...(which he doesnt.) saying that the only way reyes can K anyone is by getting them to chace...Come on...YOUR A MANAGER ARENT YOU SUPPOSE TO TEACH HIM?

I mean he is absurd when it comes to this stuff. I will not miss him one bit when he is gone...

alright guys. i agree with both of u on the young players. i dont think larussa likes young players but six roys is a very strong statement, so im not sure there. ok i would take oquendo but not for 2 years. i do like oquendo. i also think larussa doesnt like black players but i dont have evidence to support that. as for comments about rolen i have to say i dont like people being badmouthed after they are gone. i know he was joking but i dont like that. and as for reyes, screw reyes. he is a headcase and weakminded. if we score one, he will give up two. if we score three he will give up four. whatever the opposite of gamer is, thats what he is. screw reyes.

Only way a player gets a ROY? You forgot C)Changing his last name, Carlos Beltran-style, or D)Being Steve Sax and stealing it from Willie McGee. Yes, you need talent and opportunity. But opportunity isn't directly linked to talent. Let's not forget that the only reason that Pujols got the time of day back in 2001 was because of an injury suffered by Bobby Bonilla in spring training. And look at the Giants, another organization famed for holding back rookie talent. Tim Lincecum, who most scouts said should have been called up in 2006, only got his job because of a combination of injuries and atrocious pitching (Matt Cain aside. How can you lose 14 games and have a 3.65 ERA and a 1.26 WHIP?). And if Tony LaRussa really likes young players, why is it that in the history of his managing career, he has been in or near the top 10 of oldest starting rosters fielded every year? He must really love those young guys to do some stuff like that.

So it looks like STATISTICS and LOGIC prove you wrong.

And as for your other comments...

Yes, I was wrong about the Dave Duncan quote. But allowing your pitching coach to say something like that to a member of the media and not severely reprimanding him for it, and, in fact, doing nothing about it, is the same as saying it yourself. But I guess that reflects his management style. And the joke about Rolen: Of course it was a joke. But it was also childish, immature, and COMPLETELY unprofessional. But once again, I guess thats something that genius managers do. You know, the kind that harbors personal grudges with players and divides the locker room...

Larussa has his faults (he and Rolen share the blame in that spitting contest) but to ding him for things that aren't true leads one to believe that you're looking for problems to justify a personal dislike for the guy.

And what does "changing his last name, Carlos Beltran- style" have to do with winning a Rookie of the Year? You still have to have the two components I mentioned: talent and opportunity. Larussa has given talented players the opportunity to play.

Devlsh do you not know the story of Calos Beltran...He was a rookie in 1996 or 1997 and then also in 1999...How you ask...He was once Carlos Ramos, then CHANGED his last name to Beltran and won ROY.

Izzy was hurt. That was the only reason Wainwright was the closer. We tried everyone that year for closer and Wainwright did best...Thats why he got the job.

Reyes only started game 1 of the W.S. because of how the rotation went and he was probably the only one that could go. I know we wanted Carp pitching game 2... Our playoff SP's were Carp, Soup, Weaver and Reyes...Soup just won game 7 and LaRussa wanted Carp for Kenny Rodgers...

I dont know if you know this but Chris Duncan is the SON of our pitching coach Dave... Chris plays awful defense and only plays when there are righties on the mound.

And the LaRussa rolen thing might be right...but what about Kennedy? Why call him out in the media? Was it necessary? No...Then why do it?

Marquis didnt even make the playoff roster so dont use him as an example.

And please look up your stats before you even come in here saying crap...Becuase Kinney and Johnson werent the most used relievers. Looper was the most used reliever. And if you want to count Wainwright...him.

Darkstar-

We traded Haren and havent had him since 05. He pitched 1 or 2 years with us and that was it. Ive already talked about Marquis and Duncan. If you dont believe me about Duncan, remember when we had Cody McKay up as a catcher? He was awful and was only up because of his dad. Ankiel was a pitcher then completly broke down...He had to switch to OF two years later and now he is up (4 years later)at the age of 27 or 28.

Ok, lets just set this completely straight real fast…

First ~ Yes, I know all that Man031, but that still doesn’t take away that all those kids and rookies played huge roles and carried large workloads for the Cards in important situations over the last few years. They did. Sure, you can say things like “well, so&so only got a shot because so&so got hurt” ~ but that’s true for like 75% of the players in the game. You just cant try to use that as if its a negative about LaRussa, its the norm.

Really, exactly what you are trying to put LaRussa down for can probably be said about 90% of the managers in baseball. I know I can probably make an argument along the same lines against Eric Wedge in Cleveland, making it seem like he just wont play a rookie unless he is absolutely forced to. Cubs fans make the same argument against Baker for the most part. Angels and Dodgers fans will definitely make the same argument. Giants fans had the same complaint the last few years. When you start looking around the league, you realize that LaRussa is no different than any other manager really…

You also made the statement that “if Tony LaRussa really likes young players, why is it that in the history of his managing career, he has been in or near the top 10 of oldest starting rosters fielded every year?”, but that’s just not correct, not taking everything into account, and deceiving because its almost always because of 1 or 2 ancient players who mainly ride the pine but provide a vet presence off the bench for a team mainly made up of kids. First, he mainly had AL teams who carry a DH ~ that generally increases age right off the top over NL teams. Then. guys like Jamie Quirk, Ron Hassey, Dave Parker, Ken Phelps, Don Baylor, Reggie, etc were sitting on the bench behind kids in Oakland ~ they skewed the avg age big time, despite being just “also’s” on clubs which saw like 7/9 starters be 30&Under. Even with a DH and one or two guys like that on the bench though, LaRussa’s A’s still were about middle of the pack as far as AL age…

Lastly, are you so sure that Carlos Beltran made his debut and played enough games to qualify as a rookie in 1996/1997 under a different name? I mean a) he would have been 19 or maybe 20. b) he would have never played above Low-A or A ball. c) there is no records for the person you claim, or any other similar name on the Royals over the years you mention. d) there are records for Beltran making his debut in 1998, and in 1999 having enough AB to qualify for the ROY. I know he changed his name, but he didn’t change his name and qualify for the ROY twice because of it. What you claim is not only impossible, but also never happened.

Honestly, I agree with Devlsh in that it seems you're looking for problems to justify a personal dislike for the guy.