Have Injuries Knocked Tigers, Indians Out Of Contention?

Injuries aren't killing either team. Under achievement is.

Tigers:
Renteria's numbers are close to his production with the Red Sox, suggesting he's not an American League hitter.
Polanco has been strictly average this year.
Cabrera's production suggests he gave up after he got his contract.
Pudge, Shef, and Rogers are old.
Granderson hasn't been the expected sparkplug.
Verlander was expected to win the Cy Young and he's winning the Sigh Young.
Robertson isn't even a #5 pitcher this year.

Indians:
Hafner has disappeared.
Martinez is hitting, but pretty much only singles.
Garko's struggling against righties.
The Cabrera of last years playoffs may be a fluke.
Blake, once average has slipped to less than average.
Betancourt of last year has disapeared.
And dear god in heaven why hasn't Borowski been put to sleep or at the very least released.

In short, injuries are just a kick to teams that are under achieving...

The Indians are 7 games back right now, which could mean they're out if it. But I wonder if the Bonderman news will make them think, "Well, the Tigers are out of it now, so that's one less team for us to worry about. We still have a chance!"

Alejandro - Don't forget that when the Indians do string a few runs together, it's often their bullpen that lets them down (like on Saturday).

This series could be make or break for both teams.

I think the Indians should trade C.C. They could fill all their holes and come out next year and take the division then. I also think the Tigers shoul;d consider trading Maglio Ordonez for an arm.

"I also think the Tigers shoul;d consider trading Maglio Ordonez for an arm."

If they're trading Maggs, they're clearly thinking long term. Long term, they already have Porcello to pitch into the rotation, but they have no stud outfield prospects to fill Maggs' shoes.

If Detroit desperately wants another arm to try and make one last go at it, they should look into getting Freddy Garcia to sign a 1 year deal.

Boston has apparently struck gold giving Colon a fresh start. Maybe Detroit can pull a trick and play the little "there will be blood" concept (that's a striking gold refference) on Freddy G.

You can't attribute injury to everything, especially with the way the staff has been pitching. Fact of the matter is, the Indians have no offense, and one good hitter won't change that. Besides, the Indians farm system and minor league depth is overrated. They have few top prospects; Nick Weglarz isn't going to get you Adam Dunn!

It's not the injuries really, it's more that these teams weren't really very good to start with. :)

And to all you haters who said the Sox should trade Joe Crede for Brad Hennessey or frickin' Eric Threets, you can take the foot from your mouth and kiss our collective ass dummies. *laughs maniacally*

As long as the White Sox are leading the division it will remain in play.

The White Sox will regress. The Indians and Tigers will improve. The law of averages will correct this ship before the season is over.

“The White Sox will regress. The Indians and Tigers will improve. The law of averages will correct this ship before the season is over.”

…Truer words probably cant be said. And although its not a 100% guarantee, the odds are stacked against things continuing like this…

“It's not the injuries really, it's more that these teams weren't really very good to start with. :) “

…Yeah, cause generally teams that arent very good win 96 games; right? Got it…

“And to all you haters who said the Sox should trade Joe Crede for Brad Hennessey or frickin' Eric Threets, you can take the foot from your mouth and kiss our collective ass dummies. *laughs maniacally*”

…Why would anyone have their foot in their mouth over that? His D is not what you would expect, and his hitting would have been replaced by Fields. When all is said and done, he will walk as a FA and the Sox most likely will get nothing for it (his limited playing time last year makes even a Type-B unlikely) while Fields will not have that year of experience under his belt. Hurts longterm, and may or maynot have helped today ~ siding with the most logical approach doesn’t mean someone is a “hater” as you put it…

I don't see the White Sox regressing any time soon. While the pitching might not end up MLB best by .15 ERA, the offense is starting to heat up after having black holes in half our offense up to this point(Konerko, Thome, Swisher, Cabrera, and Ramirez has taken over 2B). I'm afraid it doesn't work like the way you think it will, guys.

And this is for Dark...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4250&context=fielding

Look at Crede's zone rating. It is as good as it has ever been in his career. It is as good as Pedro Feliz and a little behind Adrian Beltre; as a matter of fact, Crede now is better than Beltre's in years past(including last year). It is one stat but it proves that Crede is still awesome on defense, and now he's tearing it up offensively, pushing his OPS around .900. He has made errors but the glove is still there, he is still making impossible plays look easy.

Josh Fields has been injured a lot of the year and has a sub .800 OPS in AAA. With his defense, I'm not calling for him to be our third basemen as long as Crede is here.

The Sox have a 70-80% chance of making the playoffs according to BP. The Tigers just blow and the Indians are where the Sox were last year, an offensive rut like that is impossible to get out of, especially considering Pronk is not the same and on the DL to boot and Martinez isn't going to lift an offense by himself should he remember to hit for power. The White Sox pitching rotation is remarkable(admitting that it will regress somewhat, but their offense should more than make up for that), their bullpen(LOL Scott Linebrink) is unstoppable and the offense is finally awakening. You will be looking up at them in the standings for the rest of the season. The Indians have no offense and no relief pitching (JoBo is too old, Raffy is out of steroids) and the Tigers aren't any better.

That sure as hell is not more than the Twins got, and if that is supposed to be for Sabathia, that really isn't enough.

I think the Cubs could get Sabathia though, if they really wanted him.

“The Indians have no offense and no relief pitching (JoBo is too old, Raffy is out of steroids) and the Tigers aren't any better.”

…See that’s the kind of thing which shows it’s a whole bunch of fandom talking though…

When its thought of realistically ~ the Sox are benefiting from Cle and Det teams which are doing their best to lose, but are a 500 team otherwise. Really, take out the 11-3 (or whatever) record against the Tribe and KittyKats and see where Chicago stands… They are also a team which has basically nothing to call up from the minors as reinforcements, next to nothing desirable available to trade to fill holes if needed, and players who should not be performing as they are... Fandom can look at some percentage calculations and say they have a whatever chance, but common sense just doesn’t back such a conclusion up…

And really, I would think Sox fans should be rooting against the team seriously competing. If they didn’t, then maybe KW would actually do something proactive and trade some of the deteriorating vets for prospects that might help rebuild a completely barren system. I mean, its not like this team can be expected to really do much if they manage to sneak into the playoffs ~ and tomorrow looks bleak… Its quite easy to see a situation where one of Cleveland or Detroit start playing like they should, overtake the Sox and Chicago is left with an aging team that has no prospects and expensive Vets on their way out the door. Sox would be left holding the short end of the stick, and suffering in the future because of it… And lets not forget that there is a 3rd factor as well ~ the Twins might just be the real winners when everything is said and done. (afterall, we all know it wouldnt be the first time...)

“That sure as hell is not more than the Twins got, and if that is supposed to be for Sabathia, that really isn't enough.”
…And where that is definitely correct, I don’t know about this:
“I think the Cubs could get Sabathia though, if they really wanted him.”
…The players the Cubs have to trade are players who wont fit the Indians system that well at all…

The same pathetic offense that has scored 54 runs the last 6 games? Alright, spew all the crap you want.

lol kanka...the fans of the tribe are terrible?...my my how we forget the sellout record (even when they lost the series twice)! But you obviously know nothin about baseball...because theres places where these teams play called "markets"...and because Clevelands market isn't as big as a New York, LA, Chicago, etc..., means we're on a budget, just like most people in the country today because of the crap economy and gas prices...that affects a ball clubs salary too (just to educate you)! Its been proven that you don't need to spend outragious money to win. Based on last year the Rockies, Brewers, and Indians are prime examples, and this year so far Tampa Bay whom the W. sux just found out about first hand! So don't think the W. Sux are all that because, their playing in a divison this year where it don't look like it'll take a lot for any of the teams to win it! Everyones entitled to a slump.......even 8 games out with 100 left to go...its a long season...relax and spend more time learning baseball...or else you wouldn't have made stupid comments....dummy!

"…Yet, if we look at the teams statistics we see this: (headed into today)
Cle ~ 62 Games, 273 Runs scored
Chi ~ 62 Games, 286 Runs scored"

The difference is that the ChiSox bullpen has been spectacular, while the Tribes has been a disappointment.

Jensen Lewis threw 94 last year and can only get it up to about 88 this year. Being a guy who throws alot of fastballs, it hurts him. Now he is in AAA, which hurts the Tribe.

Whoever refrenced Betancourt's play to lack of steroids is an idiot. Not using steroids would hurt your velocity, Raffy is throwing as hard as always, he just can't locate at all.

Perez has been good, but being the only left handed pitcher in the bullpen, Wedge hesitates to use him unless the matchup dictates.

Kobayashi locates well, but his stuff isn't overwhelming. He's a 3rd or 4th RP at best, not the key setup man.

Finally Borowski still is only throwing fastballs at around 84, which he could get up to around 90 last year.

I would be VERY surprised if the Dodgers gave up Billingsly, Kemp, and DeWitt for 2 months of Sabathia. The Red Sox and the Yankees could've got Santana but didn't so why would they give up more for Sabathia. That leaves the Cubs, Dodgers, and maybe the Braves.

They signed Santana to that huge extension so originally it was only one season... The Dodgers would be a good match, they would likely be able to sign CC long term, and they defintely have the right chips. Plus, with Brad Penny declining each and every pitch, they'd have their ace, and if it were a December bidding war between NY & LA, I'd bet a nickel the Yankees get him. If he plays through the season, the Indians fail to make the playoffs or go anywhere at all, CC should just start gettin' his Yankee gear because he is so undoubtedly going to be there; they need a true #1, they want a nice big (large, heavy) gift for their brand new stadium, and they have I believe the exact number value is 100, zillion-quantillion dollars to spend. But the Dodgers, would they give Ethier, Duwitt or LaRoche, & Billinsgley for Sabathia & I don't know, someone like Marte or something?

The reason the Sox defensive numbers are so decent is because when your range, left-right-in front-behind, is within that 2 and a half foot radius they can field within (Jhonny Peralta range), there is less likiness for error. Konerko cannot move more than roughly 3 steps (However, Hawk believes he is Gold Glove material), Alexei Ramirez does not count because he plays a Cuban position known as M2R, which is that short right field behind the 2nd base position that he plays, Cabrera & Crede I can give credit to, they're both above average, especially Crede, but I still don't understand how Cabrera won that gold glove over John McDonald last year, that was sad... But so was Jeter and A-Rod winning it over Omar Vizquel from '02-04 (it almost seems (a lot of the time) the guys that have good offensive years are getting gold gloves, Cabrera won one years ago with the Expos, then has a nice .300+ season and beats out Johnny Mac who was unreal at SS? Weird.)... Quentin makes LF look like a chore, he's got a good arm though. Nick Swisher plays center field like he's landlocked. And once again Jermaine Dye plays RF like he has been sleeping all day, and he's on crutches. Quentin should play RF anyways. (B. Anderson should defintely play CF, much better defensively than any of those OF's). And unfortunately, that Indian and White Sox stat showing the run similarities is grossily distorted, because the Indians runs came in a couple blowouts where they showed the potential to hit, but then gets shut out by some Cy Young candidate like the great Armando Galarraga or any pitcher with an Oakland uni on or Kyle Davies... They have made so many hacks look like Johan Santana (even though they raked off him last year). They should've seen the red flag when they hit like .240 in the second half of last year. Maybe they can turn it around if 1. Victor returns to form 2. The Rafael Connection regroups 3. Barfield is called up (Cabrera is playing like Rafael Belliard with the '95 Braves--ridiculous defense for .200 hitting, even though he's way better, he just needs to start at an easier level and come back up in August, he'll be a fine .280 #2 hitter) 4. They get that, "New hero every day!" approach 5. The city of Cleveland moves past the Pronk problem of Travis Hafner (he does not deserve a nickname if he cannot hit, Joe Inglett doesn't have a nickname and is contributing more than Travis Hafner)... The team has just gotta have the philosophy, if he can't produce, move him to the end of the lineup or bench him, if he plays well great... Gotta move past that with the Pronkster.

And it's really not over until it's over. They have 95+ more games to play. (Note: Please see 2007 NL Champions Colorado Rockies... Procrastination is a beautiful thing)

Who are the bums in that trade? Vitters isn't, he went third overall in last year's draft. Ceda projects as a future closer. And 2 high draft picks is certainly not a bum. And if You don't want Cedeno, Then take Theriot or Fontenot. I just thought you would like a middle infielder. If that's not enough, the Cubs should just walk away and go get Rich Harden or A.J. Burnett.

Being the 3rd pick in the draft doesn't really equate to much until you start living up to the hype. He's still in A ballalong with Ceda (who is starting down there by the way and in his 3rd season in A ball). Cedeno and Howry are the bums, flat out. Cedeno hasn't lived up to the hype and there is a reason the Indians didn't even try to resign Howry. As for the two draft picks, MLB doesn't allow it so it doesn't matter. The Indians don't need a middle infielder, with Peralta, Cabrera, and Barfield they have to many as is. The Indians need an established 3B, and have pretty much since Fryman retired.

And thank you whitesoxfan24 for being what seems the only one of your kind based in reality.

Dude, Joe… Sorry, but you cant just throw three or four names together and say it’s a good deal.

Thinking about it realistically, Cedeno has next to no value to anyone ~ he’s out of options and cant hit or field very well. Sure, he had a really nice week back in April that skewed his numbers a bit, but one week does not make a career ~ nor does it create value for other clubs… Ceda? A minor league (should be) BP arm, with horrendous control problems? I mean, 51 IP, 28 BB, 4 HBP and 3 WP? Sure he gets some hype because he can throw 100MPH ~ but it doesn’t erase the fact that it has a 50% chance of ending up hitting the hitter, ump, backstop or even fans in the seats… Vitters? He of the 9 career hits vs 7 career errors? Ahh, but he will be the Indians 3B of the future, right? Just please ignore the fact that the Indians have a better 3B prospect already, and that the Cubs have used him as a DH in 1/3 his games… Lastly an expensive BP arm which should fit in great with a team who would be trading away their chances of competition… Come on, that’s just laughable…

“And thank you whitesoxfan24 for being what seems the only one of your kind based in reality.”

I second that! It was quite refreshing to see…

The good thing about Bob Howry is getting the compensation picks at the end of the year. Vitters played 4 games in the minor leagues this year, so not a good sample size. Cabrera is hitting under .200. How is he a long-term answer at 2b? Barfield did not hit last year and that's why he's in the minors. Murton isn't needed in an outfield that starts David Dellucci and Franklin Gutierrez? That doesn't make much sense. Fontenot was me just throwing a name out there. There were many closers taken in the first round of the draft that are a lot like Ceda. Great stuff with bad control. That is a TON for 2 months of a pitcher. I doubt any other team offers that much.

I've only been gloating because of the doubters. The stats are in the Sox favor... if you call that being loudmouthed that's your problem.

3B better than Vitters in the minors...hmmm, let's see
Wes Hodges, 2nd rounder in 2006 and in 157 games at A+ and now AA is hitting .294 with 22 homers and 122 rbi.
Beau Mills, 13th pick last year and while still in A ball has played 116 games (about half and half at first and third) is hitting .258 with 11 homers and 75 rbi. Don't know about you but that seems a tad better than 18 games hitting a whopping .138 with no homers and 4 rbi. And that's not even counting Mr. Was Supposed to Be Can't Miss Andy Marte.