Rosenthal's Latest: Sabathia, Griffey, Dunn

Mark Shapiro would laugh in the face of Cashman if cashman made that offer

Mets already have an ace lefty. And theirs is 100 lbs lighter.

I could see the Dodgers going after CC with Penny in the deal (assuming he shapes up). Matt Kemp would have to be in a potential deal, and maybe Andy LaRoche if he gets healthy and produces.

No way I trade Kemp for C.C, Eithier will be fine. I don't want to trade for C.C.

A Harden-like haul? Seriously? Do they know he is a Free Agent after the season? I don't know of too many guys going in trades that are rentals getting back too much of late. But after the Colon trade a few years ago I can see them hoping for another ones of those.

"My guess is Yanks outbid Cubs - Duncan,Rasner,Britton and Gonzalez?"

My comment about this will be the same thing I told my ex when she wanted to go to a vegan resturant... "are you f---ing kidding me? There is absolutely no meat on that plate." Nothing to help the Indians in the long run. If the Yanks want him it'd start with 2 of 3 of Jackson, Tabata, and Horne, and then a few more pieces.

I have to wonder, if the Braves would make a desperate effort... Shafer, Jurrgins, Lillibridge would be an interesting package, or at least the meat of it. It'd be the kind of package that would get Shapiro's attention, young players ready to make an impact next year. The funny thing about the Braves is they have a decent amount of cash coming off the books next year simply in what they're paying Hampton, even the buyout is going to come from Colorado. The championship Braves philosophy was always pitching comes first. If they don't think they can get Texeria to stick, they could always make a play for Sabathia and try to sign him long term before he hits the FA market.

I never said Shafer was available and I'm in the camp that says HGH isn't a big deal. But I think he'd have to be a part of a Sabathia deal. But Jurrgins or James would have to be part of it to make Shapiro perk up, a young pitcher. Also I don't see any Sabathia deal going down at all unless the team got a 72 hour window for negotiation. Ultimately even a stud pitcher who's bigger than David Wells and Andruw Jones combined could make the Braves a playoff threat this year.

But ultimately SBE and grimace are correct. The Indians should throw in the towel. This is still a good team. They just need more offense. Which brings up an interesting question, would Sabathia be possible bait for a big hitter?

yeah I know that you did not say that Schafer was available but I was just sayin so that we wont have a huge discussion about Schafer in a deal. Unless of course we get a 72 hour window and IS guaranteed to sign him. Other than that he goes nowhere. Yeah I agree Jurrgens AND Schafer would have to be in the deal for Sabathia.

"You have to give something to get something."

Not in the Johan Santana deal...

"Any team that trades for CC will be the team that signs him. The deal alone will be contingent on him signing a extension."

Agreed, no different than the Santana trade-and- sign. The Dodgers will have alot of payroll coming off the books next year and even more after 2009. The have the prospects and the $$$, makes perfect sense.

with pronk *IN* the lineup there was a gaping hole. the guy hasn't hit worth a crap since he got hit last year and it's been worse this year. a 677 OPS (with 1 HR every 40 ABs) from your DH slot is pretty weak.

My guess is Yanks outbid Cubs - Duncan,Rasner,Britton and Gonzalez?

As an Indians fan, I'll give you Chuck Lofgren for that haul. Are you forgetting that Sabathia is one of the best pitchers in baseball, and probably has the ability to start delivering WS rings again?

"Yes I know that [Atlanta has] money coming off the books at the end of the year but I just dont believe we would trade Jurrgens for nobody."

How do I respond to that? Whining about having to give up "Jurrgens" for some "nobody" named C.C. Sabatha. Fine, we'll keep him.

As for my own opinion, I say the Indians try and deal for Matt Holliday. I think the Indians will be able to resign Sabathia at the end of the year provided the Indians make the postseason, and Holliday is what the Tribe needs to do just that. A new key player may help to snap everyone out of their slumps... Before Miller went down again the other day, I'll bet Miller, Cliff Lee, and Gutierrez would have done the trick, but now it'll take some creativity. Whatever Shapiro plans on doing, he should do soon. Having watched the Indians lead off two of the first three innings (against the Royals) yesterday with doubles, and prove incapable of moving the runner over to third in both cases, its clear that this team is desperate for some help.

And Oh yeah, Carlos Gomez is out producing Reyes' 22 year old numbers. Dont even get me started on the Santana deal. If you think we gave up nothing, you are seriously mistaken. And if it isn't bad now, wait until 3 to 4 years from now when all of those prospects are major leaguers, Santana is throwing 88 MPH and making 25 million a year. If Gomez continues to develop at this pace he will be worth the price of Santana alone to the Twins, being that he was a one year rental that was 100 percent leaving their team and everybody knew it.

should read top of the rotation potential.

nrmax88- I think all of us can rest assured that you will never be a GM.

Plain and simple; Adam Dunn for C. C. Sabathia.

Both are going to be Free Agents after the 2008 season and both would fill the other team's needs. Cleveland needs hitting and Cincinnati needs Pitching.

Trading one for another would be better than just getting the Amateur Draft picks the teams would receive if both were allowed to become Free Agents.

In Cleveland, Dunn could be used as a DH to give him some rest and to minimize his bad Defense (Dunn leads all NL Left Fielders with 3 Errors).

In Cincinnati, Sabathia would give the Reds a Left Handed Starting Pitcher (which they NEED) who can also go mroe than five Innings per start on a consistant basis (also something they need). Plus, Sabathia wouldn't have to face a DH each Game but instead would get to face a Pitcher.

King Griffey Junior is being paid $12.5 million this year while Dunn is being paid $13 million. For 2009, if the Reds keep KGJ, he is scheduled to make $16 million (with a $4 million buy out) while Dunn, if the Reds sign him long term (STUPID idea!!!) would have to pay him at least $15 million a year. So, combined, that is $31 million the Reds would be shelling out for just two players.

With Votto and now Bruce on the big club, the Reds do not NEED either Dunn OR KGJ. They have enough Offense from the left hand side. What the Reds NEED to balance out their line up is a Right Handed power hitter, a guy who can play GOOD Defense in Left Field or both.

With $31 million free because of Dunn and KGJ gone, the Reds would have enough money to sign Sabathia AND get a Right Handed power bat or a guy who could play GOOD Defense in Left Field and drive in 80 RBI's.

A GOOD Defender (or power bat) to go along with a rotation of

Harang
Sabathia
Volquez
Arroyo
Cueto

would MORE than make up for what little Offense Dunn would provide over and above a guy who plays GOOD Defense and who drives in 80 RBI's.

That was supposed to read: CC's not going anywhere this year.

milehigh78,

Oh, I don't know, maybe money?

To sign Dunn, it will probably only take a 3 or 4 year contract at $15 to $16 million a year. To sign Sabathia, add a couple of years, as far as contract length and a couple of million dollars more per year.

2) Other teams ability and willingness to trade prospects. Look what has happened in Seattle. Bedard was supposed to put the Mariners over the top as far as being a Play-Off team is concerned. So far, he has been injured (no shock there) and the Mariners have a losing record and are either at or near the bottom of the standings in the AL West.

The Mets are doing better with Johan Santana but they had to empty their Minor League system to do so and some scouts have said Santana isn't Pitching like he used to and that what the Mets gave up to get him might have been too much (especially if he comes down with an injury).

Based on those two things and the fact that there are not many teams who have a fully stocked Minor League system filled with good players that can ALSO afford to pay Sabathia what he wants that would leave just a few potential trading partners.

So, the question is, would those few teams gut their farm system to acquire Sabathia? Would they be willing to take the chance that Sabathia produces mroe than what those Minor Leaguers would? IF so, can they PAY what Sabathia would want?

Conversely, if Sabathia is traded, are the Indians willing to take the chance the Minor Leaguers DON'T pan out? If the Indians are still in contention in a month and NEED a power bat, WHAT do they have and what are they willing to give up to get a power bat?

Yes, Dunn Strikes Out a LOT and is a BAD Defensive player. I am a Reds fan and have to put up with that crap every Game. However, on an AL team, Dunn could DH, that way he wouldn't have to masquerade as a Left Fielder as much, if at all. He could concentrate on hitting and the Indians wouldn't have to worry about him giving up Runs because of his Defense.

So, in the end, it comes down to this. Can the Indians sign Sabathia long term? If not, what could they get for him? Are there many teams who would be willing to gut their farm system for him? If so, can they also afford to pay him the money he would want? Is Dunn worth more than two Amateur Draft picks?

Dunn has his flaws (many) but he is a known quantity. Trading Sabathia for him would probably NOT be a signal to the fans the Indians were throwing in the towel on the season like trading Sabathia for prospects would.

"'As a Dodger fan you would want them to give up Kemp, LaRoche, and Penny for 2 months of Sabathia. That's crazy.'

You have to give something to get something."

You don't give up that kind of bounty to get a pitcher with weight problems who has seemed to have left his control behind. In fact, Sabathia and Penny are looking like opposite handed versions of each other. Kemp has WAY too much upside, not to mention right now value both offensively and defensively, to be moved anywhere. If Sabathia can get on some sort of regimen to keep his weight down, he is probably worth Penny and LaRoche, but definately not Kemp as well.

Do the Yankees even have a farm yet?

With Penny pitching the way he's pitching...same old Penny (really last year was his only exceptional year), and Derek Lowe specifically stating he wants to test the free agent market (Boras client), I can see the Dodgers looking at Sabathia. His ERA is a run better than Penny's in the AL. Not to mention as a whole Sabathia has had a much better career and is 2 years younger than Penny (28).

Cleveland's benefit is one more year of affordability in a starter. It would probably take at least Penny and three prospects/major league ready players and a forth low-level prospect with one of them a pitcher to acquire Sabathia. A combo of Penny and 2 or 3 (depeding on the choices) of either Young/LaRoche/Ethier/Hu/X.Paul/Kemp and a low level prospect like Francisco Felix or Calos Santana.

I wouldn't mind sendig off Penny, Ethier, La Rouche and one those low-level guys for Sabathia. Especially with almost 60 Million bucks coming off the books next year (Nomar 10M, Furcal 13M, Penny 9M, Lowe 9M, Loiaza 8M, Kent 9M), they can afford to get a durable starter in Sabathia and offer an extention. Four years/52M???

Didn't know he was asking for that much. I don't see any logic in signing a pitcher for more than 5 years; arms change more drastically than bats. That is insane money he is asking for.

“He is also on pace for nearly 30 HR and has walked only 12 fewer this year in 12 starts than last year in 34. That, and he has weight problems that don't seem to be getting better.”

…Take out those two miserable starts where he gave up 9ER and see how almost all of his lines are actually better than last year. Last year his bad games just came later in the year, this year they happened so early ~ it has made his numbers look flat when he has been pretty much the same…

Oh, and CC actually has always pitched better when he doesn’t worry about his weight. I don’t see how that is somehow a factor anyway, but now you know…

“Penny, who is bound to show improvement given that he isn't injured.”

…Scouts, reporters and even other teams are beginning to say that he is injured but trying to hide it. His mechanics are screwed, probably his attempting to compensate for said injury. Or, his arm is taxed and he’s compensating for that ~ if it’s a dead arm though, then don’t expect to see the real him till next year…