Peavy Rumors: Saturday

Wow I'm shocked that the Braves are getting tired of waiting. I guess Wren wants this done quicker than most think.

Interesting.

Thanks Tim!

dirtyfrank i think most people assume that he is going to chicago.

Frank,

Unless you have proof of it, don't come on here typing that.

"I just wish they would hurry up and make a deal with some one so the Braves can move on to their other off season business."

The Braves are free to move on at any time. Nobody's forcing them to continue this pursuit.

Meanwhile Towers is just doing his job working for the best deal he can find.

it makes a lot of sense for wren and the braves to be a little impatient. theyve obviously slated peavy as their number one choice.... but their fall backs are guys like lowe, sheets, and burnett that arent going to wait until march to sign with somebody.
i think that the impatience is a definite sign that the braves are only going after one top starter (at least in the u.s.) and that they definitely want that one to be quality, so they cant risk wasting time playing with the pads for nothing, while the other guys on their radar are signing elsewhere.

The Braves need to get Peavy ... Then trade for Swisher and Vazquez. That will leave us about 15 million to sign Furcal or Renteria and resign Ohman and Norton.

By the way the Braves will have an additional 5 million or so to spend this season maybe more. At least half of Tim Hudson's contract will be paid by insurance. So tack another 5 on the projected 40-45 million in money to spend.

I think if the Dodgers wernt in the West they would probably be the favorite just don't think Towers wants his fan base watching Peavy pitch 5-8 times a year.

Its win win for the dodgers who watched peavy grow into an ace first hand

cubs4ever to me the cubs and braves offer is similar besides the fact that gorkys ceiling is higher than pie's and lets be honest pie's stock is down while gorkys is up, morton is a wash with marshall, people look at jus his major league numbers last year and are readdy to write him off... well he pitched far more innings last year than he ever has before, when he was first called up he was pretty good i was at his debut in anaheim and he really impressed, he didnt start to regress until he started complaining about either back or shoulder pain, then id say ceda and locke are pretty much a wash but then u get to comparing esco and cedeno... escobar is leaps and bounds better than cedeno. I would rather have esco than cedeno,pie,ceda, and a lower level prospect from the cubs. Thats the difference the cubs dont have a player they are buliding their deal around while the braves most certainly do.

shemple10 i would love to see u try to explain how the cubs offer is jus as good as the braves???

Unless you are in the room, you are just guessing at what the offers are. The Cubs could very well be offering Fontenot or De Rosa, Harden, Cedeno and Pie. Who knows? It does sound like it will be done soon.

The cubs offer could easily be equal if we were to include Harden or Fontenot a left handed bat and a middle infielder they need. Plus Ceda's upside is higher then the Braves pitching prospects outside of Tommy Hanson and the Braves aren't willing to part with him.

Adding Harden or Derosa wouldn't help the Padres. They are trying to rebuild. They want young cheap controllable players.

Surely Towers won't take Harden. If he gets hurt this year he won't have anything to show for Peavy.

haha thats funny ya sure the cubs offer prolly could be as good if they added three more parts!!! and idk a whole lot about the cubs farm system so i wont say that ceda has higher upside than any pitcher in the braves org other than hanson, julio teheran is a 17 yr old with a 95 mph fastball with late movement and two other good secondary pitches, not to mention cole Rohrbough is pretty darn nasty. and ya the draft picks are nice but hardens salary this year is almost as high as peavy's makes no since...

I never said that Cedeno and Escobar are comparable. I said that the deals were comparable, because Marshall is only one year older than Morton, and has been better than Morton since forever. Hernandez may have a higher ceiling, but Pie hase proven his defense at the ML level and wasn't given a chance to prove his offense. Locke is pretty far from the majors and Ceda is almost ML ready. The rest of the player that the Cubs offer probably almost makes up for Escobar's talent.

Susan, a pitcher's won-loss record has nothing to dow ith their effectiveness or quality as a starting pitcher. Now, the ERA is relevant of course. While 4.40 was 0.50 higher than league average last season, I think Vasquez would make a good 5th starter for a lot of teams.

I meant to say "Sarah", not Susan, my bad...

Cubs fans have yet to realize is that if Harden gets hurt and doesn't get a Type A, no one gets any draft picks.

A risk the Padres would be willing to take I'm sure if the Cubs paid part of his salary this season.

tsweet9000 I really hope the Braves do not get Vazquez and Swisher.

"No 17 year olds have three developed pitches."

Shempel, that's exactly the scouting report on Teheran. It's not his biting mid-90's fastball (which he has), but his command of 2 other pitches (curve and change), that make him the top International prospect in 2007, and a top prosect MLB prospect despite having pitched 15 minor league innings.

It'll take at least 3 years before he's major-league ready, and a lot can happen between now and then, of course.

shempel10, tehran has three developed pitchers thats exactly why the braves made him off limits right away. they cant wait to see what happens with this kid as he gets older. and to all the cubs fan who think pie/cedeno/Marshall/Ceda is the equivalent to Gorkys/Morton/Escobar/low grade pitch prospect you need to turn your attention to free agency. you say u rushed pie so he should still have top prospect value, it doesnt work that way. because u rushed him he has mid level prospect value. gorkys meanwhile has top prospect value. I'll give u that Marshall is better than Morton but they both suck so it doesnt make much of a difference. And Escobar is far better than cedeno and ceda.

Yankee's won't get Peavy, and that's a good thing, I'd much rather have C.C, and Lowe on the Yanks. Keep the rest of our money for the whole "outfield situation" the Yanks apparently have, and for a first baseman, like Marky Tex.

As I said before, the Braves may have a better package, but the Cubs fill more holes for SD. By the way, that package of Morton/Hernandez/Escobar isn't a can't miss package. Most scouts don't see Escobar as anything more than an above average and possibly good SS. Hernandez has a high ceiling, but nothing more. Morton has done nothing except suck. Locke may be good, but he's years away.

I'm not saying the Cubs package is can't miss, but it's very comparable to Atlanta's. Cedeno could be an average SS if given time to mature. Marshall is just plain better than Morton. Pie at least has proven defense at the ML level. Ceda is almost ML ready and has two big league pitches. And if the lower level pitcher is Dae Eun Rhee then I'd probably take the Cubs offer. Rhee has done nothing but dominate A ball, and is considered the best pitcher in the Cubs system. And if Vitters were included in any Cubs package then it's probably a done deal for Chicago. Vitters has higher upside than anyone the Braves have period, and Vitters has done nothing but prove how good his hitting ability is.

Nixa- Ceda isn't a starter turned closer. He was never seen as a starter. He started in A ball to get some innings under his belt, and to develop pitches.

Vitters has higher upside than Hayward ? Ummmmm sure ...

I can't wait for this whole thing to be over. I hope the Braves land Peavy for a reasonable price, but one way or the other, I just want all the speculation and arguing over which package is better, to end.

Bdlugz i previously stated that im not to knowledgable when it comes to the cubs overall farm system jus as most cubs fans dont know too much about the braves system(especially cubs4ever imo) but i do know that pie, cedeno, and marshall are nothing special. And no morton isnt either but i think the main difference here that has to be seen is escobar, right now the cubs have no one on the table as good as him. And u say the cubs could easily get it done if they add the right players... well guess what the braves could do that too, and quite a bit easier than the cubs.

Alright, well either way, I think the fact there is no chance Ceda can start limits his value to an extent. Obviously a good closer prospect is still valuable, just not as valuable as a comparable prospect with the ability to start.

Sorry, I don't think the Cubs offer is comparable to the Braves. And as far as "dealing with it", there is no clear front runner for anything. Towers wants Hanson, and this little ploy of his, may very well be that he is trying to panick Wren into trading him. The Braves are getting impatient with this, so are most Braves fans. I have already stated that THe Braves should move on and get something else done. We have plenty of money and plenty of pieces to trade, we do not have to put all of our eggs in one basket. I'd rather walk away from this than give up THAT much for Peavy. Wren may wind up doing that, and THe Padres will wind up talking a lesser package than they initially wanted. THis is all mere speculation, as none of us are Kevin Towers, Frank Wren or Hendry. I will laugh my ass off if Peavy remains a Padre or goes to the Cubs.

Weighting the two offers:
Cubs:
Pie: Great in CF with defense, unknown ability to hit major level pitching. Out of options, 1 years service time.

Marshall: Mid-to-back of the rotation starter. Out of options, over 1 years service time.

Cedeno: league avg to above league avg SS. Good d, decent bat. Out of options, 3 years service time.

Prospects mentioned:
Vitters/Ceda/Hill others.

Braves:

Escobar: above league avg SS, good bat. 2 options remaining, 1 year service time.

Morton: Back of the rotation starter, Option remaining, less than 1 year service time.

Prospects mentioned:
Locke/Schafer/Hernandez/Rohrbough

Now i wont get into the debate about which is better, but for the padres the cubs seem willing to plug more holes, yet their offer doesn't provide San Diego with much flexibility, unlike the Braves package. (Aside, I didnt go into the prospects, too many differing opinions on them)

Hello all,

I think my issues here are with people who are inadequately looking at all sides of the two supposedly proposed deals. It would be unfair to say that Felix Pie has little-to-no value because of limited ABs at ages 22-23. He is only 23 after all, and is ready, right now, to start in CF for any team. Hernandez is a great defender who still has a ways to go offensively. He's at least 2 years and probably 3 years away. If I am Kevin Towers and comparing the two, Pie has a MUCH more definitive minors hitting record and is ready right now. Pie also is a great defender with a RFer's arm in CF. To simply say that Gorkys is better because he hasn't done poorly in 260 ABs spaced over two seasons is ludicrous and a poor use of judgement.

That being said, there are far fewer details about what package the Cubs are offering even as far as one rumor being that the Cubs have made a list of 7-8 guys of whom the Padres can pick any 4. It is virtually impossible to compare packages, but it really is all about what Towers wants. I break it down like this (taking liberties with who might be included)

Pie vs Hernandez: Advantage Cubs - Pie's ready now and is a great defender for that monstrous CF.

Escobar vs Ronny Cedeno: Advantage Braves - This isn't close. Both are superb defensively, but Yunel is a legit hitter.

Morton vs. Marshall - Advantage Even - Morton has less service time, but Marshall is a LHP.

4th guy vs. 4th guy - We really have no idea. The Braves have more top-notch guys they could include, but it seems like Wren is a bit gun shy (for good reason). Hendry probably won't include Vitters, but anyone else is available.

After posting what I posted before hearing that tidbit about Towers on the ESPN radio, if it is true, then Towers is not a ideal GM for letting personal feelings effect a trade of this magnitude. Sure, he can do what he wants as in take which package he wants. However, if his relationship plays a key role in it, then that is very unprofessional.

tsweet you really think McCann is better then Soto? That's funny I don't remember who started the all-star game for the National League as a rookie this year..

AirmanSD,

Just a clarification, but Marshall has 3 years service time and is arbitration eligible this year.

Airman where would we make that up from?

Dont know shmpel10, but i am checking for it now, all ESPN radio is podcasted, so you can listen later as well. Anyone know the time it was aired?

shempel10 you said the following....

"tsweet you really think McCann is better then Soto? That's funny I don't remember who started the all-star game for the National League as a rookie this year.."

Soto isn't chop liver, he's good, but to say he's better because he started the All Star in his rookie year?

Say that when Soto makes it to All Star Game each time in the 1st three years of his career.

I'm not saying this because I'm biased, but be real, the all star game is not a good focal point in comparing players. Reason why Soto even got the start is because of the media surrounding him and Chicago.

Bravesfan33 can you explain to me how McCann is better then Soto?

shemple10 you cant base anything on who started the allstar game. While i think soto is a great player i believ mccann is better, but not by much...
Player A: BA= 301/ HR= 23/ RBI=87 OBP=373/ OPS= 896
Player B= BA= 285/ HR= 23/ RBI= 86 OBP= 364/ OPS= 868
Player A= McCann
Player B= Soto
please explain to me why u believe soto is soo much better??????

Soto does an outstanding job behind the plate with our pitchers and manages the staff, not to mention he caught a no hitter, and then caught Lilly who took a no hitter into the seventh. He calls an amazing game, it's not just his offense.

chicago is in the lead cuz thats where peavy has the best chance to win right away. and we wont have to give half our middle infield to get him we have a surplus of above average arms, infielders, and outfielders.

So basically your argument comes down to Soto starting an all-star game and being behind the plate when someone else threw a no hitter? I don't know how I could argue with that. I mean literally I don't think its possible.

I personally think Towers is using Cubs as leverage to squeeze out more from Braves. Wren isn't biting nor will budge and Towers knows it. So, if the deal falls through with Braves, he'll have to settle with plan B from Cubs.

Kevin Hendrix you know its not up to Peavy, really, in the end its up to Kevin Towers and WRen or hendry

As Axelrod and peavy sais "they can only put the break on" they are not driving the train

I got that you were saying he was better behind the plate, however the only evidence you used was that he caught a no-hitter. The point is the only evidence you have used to back up your opinion is the fact that Soto started an all star game and caught a no hitter.

You have to watch the games to understand the leadership and the pitch calling and how he excels at it. McCann is good don't get me wrong. I'd rather take Soto right now though he is coming off a tremendous rookie year.

I think it would be Locke instead of Rohrbough, because of Towers is known to like Locke.