Gary Sheffield Rumors: Thursday

Sure he'll be cheap but to the Phillies really need another aging veteran with defensive negative value?
Amaro Jr. might be flunking his first off-season, hard.

I still don't understand why it is thought that Gary Sheffield can still hit...225/326/400 in 08 and 178/387/378 in ST this year. What am I missing? The 19 HRs? Seems pretty cut and dry to me, he can't play the field and he's generally pretty useless at the plate aside from a HR here or there. Let some team hurting for attendance pick him up to get spectators for his 500th HR, not a team like the Phillies who could contend.

"Amaro Jr. might be flunking his first off-season, hard."

Might be?

He gives Ibanez 3/31 in a market that's loaded with similar players, and it's questionable that he's even an upgrade from Burrell at all whatsoever.

He gave Moyer 2/14 when it really didn't seem necessary to pay him that much money.

I would argue that the best thing that Amaro did this offseason was embrace the concept of a sunk cost, by cutting Eaton and Jenkins. Obviously he offsets the Jenkins move if he adds Sheffield to replace him though.

How is Sheffield a better addition than Luis Gonzalez at this point? Really?

"id rather them sign jenkins as the lh hitter off the bench than sign a washed up sheff"

I think anyone would take Jenkins over Sheffield any day.

"Amaro Jr. might be flunking his first off-season, hard."

He releases Jenkins, than wants to go after Sheffield. I think it might be time for him to be fired after what, like two months or so?

"How is Sheffield a better addition than Luis Gonzalez at this point? Really?"

Nevermind to this comment, I just realized that Gonzalez is a lefty, and that's the only reason that Jenkins got cut in the first place. So, yeah. Still, there are better guys out there than Sheffield, if you're looking for a fourth outfielder.

What are the odds of Sheffield beating his projections for 2009? Aggregate projections on fangraphs and BP have him at about .100-.150 points below career level in OPS and around anywhere between 16-22 HRs in about 110 games.
He's unlikely to match that playing time and HR number regardless of who signs him but if healthy and in limited duty I think he's being fairly underrated as a bench bat for a variety of reasons.
As a Cubs fan, I'm far from worried about him signing with the Reds, but he will provide some pop to someone.

Also all three, er both teams with reported interest play in parks that Juan Pierre could hit a home run in.

"Also all three, er both teams with reported interest play in parks that Juan Pierre could hit a home run in."

Neither team has interest in Pierre.

Posted by: mford | April 02, 2009 at 11:51 AM

They'd be interested if they could get him for league minimum, well maybe those 2 teams wouldn't but I'd guess the White Sox surely would. The facts are that Sheff is only drawing interest because he is dirt cheap, period. For league minimum he's worth the risk (or lack of risk). See Andruw Jones....

philsWSchamps-

I wouldn't put much weight into the spring numbers. And the argument isn't so much that Ibanez is bad, because he's a very good hitter that makes a lot of contact. Rather, it's just that Burrell was actually a really good hitter, and in that lineup, a righty with pop/patience would be seemingly more valuable.

Now, I've heard the argument from Phils fans time and time again: the lineup was just too streaky with Howard and Burrell at its core, and Ibanez will help to keep the lineup more consistent. I get that, and I think there is some validity to it.

But when you have the choice of paying a 37 year old LF a 3/31 deal, or a 33 year old LF (that's arguably better) a 2/20ish deal, I just don't see why the Phils go after Ibanez.

Now, Amaro did make some solid big picture moves, and it's not like he's pushed the team into the ground. I just question whether signing Ibanez and Moyer at that price was anywhere near the best way to approach this offseason.

"They'd be interested if they could get him for league minimum, well maybe those 2 teams wouldn't but I'd guess the White Sox surely would."

A ton of teams would be interested in Juan Pierre at the league minimum. He's actually a pretty decent player. But he doesn't make the league minimum, he makes FAR more than that.

scribbletone,

but what you're not understanding is that Burrell plays actually about 10 years older. His body is breaking down as we speak but Ibanez while chronologically older is the picture of health.

If they knew the market was going down as far as it went and they paid that then YES they were wrong, but they don't have any glaring holes out there from the team that won it all. If they're increasing payroll i don't have a problem with it.

yes there are no statistics that I'm using that i base that judgement on Burrell on. Its just from watching him and seeing how slow he is. He's had foot problems for years and I'm wondering if the Phils feared it would catch up to him.

As far as setting the market, if i remember correctly I believe (whether true or not who knows) the Mets were said to be in on Ibanez. If they really wanted him, possibly they felt they needed to get him first as they may have perceived the mets to have "bottomless pockets" at that point, which we know now not to be the case.

And the Mets couldn't do anything but improve that bullpen. Did the do great in adding Putz and KROD, absolutely yes. We'll see how it translates onto the field. I still believe the Mets have more questions than the Phils do at this point.

johns,

that's a typical Met view. I'll put Luzinski aside because he wasn't nearly the player Schmidt was and I'll say Schmidt was my favorite Phillie growing up (dating myself). Yes too many fans booed him but many cheered him as well. I think some fans get that way when you have NEVER won anything and been around as a franchise since the 1880's. Not an excuse, a reason. I also don't think many Phils fans, if any every booed Utley or Rose for that matter. in Philly if you give your all you don't get booed. oh and there was a good article in the philly papers this week about the same subject.

ENJOY

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20090401_Sam_Donnellon__How_long_before_boos_kick_in_for_Phillies_.html

It makes one wonder when it started also.. Was it Gene Mauch and "The Collapse" season for the booing?

Thank you for the article link. A good read and appreciated.

Scribble, I get what you are saying about Sheff, but at the same time, as a Mets fan, I don't want Sheff playing 4th OF for the Phillies making the minimum, hitting in a launching pad. There is no downside there, if he stinks they just release him, but the thought of him looming on the bench late in games is scary. It will certainly make teams think twice before bringing in a lefty to turn face Ibanez. His pop and that short LF porch still scare me.

The Mets may have more questions, but to me, the Phillies have 4 serious question marks in their rotation. The Mets have a few questions of their own in the corner OF spots, and in a rotation spot or two. All I know is, the Philly's got as much out of their bullpen as you could ever ask for. The Mets got as little out of their bullpen as you could ever expect. That led to a 2 game difference at the end of the season. We will see if Lidge goes perfect again, or if the Mets blow about 100 saves again. Honestly, I think that the Mets and Phillies are in all likelihood both playoff teams, and winning the division means nothing if you can win the WC. If you get in, that is all that matters. If the Mets and Phillies both make the playoffs, does it even remotely matter which team won the division?

I have to agree with philsWSchamps on this one. Burrells stats are misleading. I lived in the Philly area recently and watched many Phillies games and can tell you watching a player like that can be maddening. He has a high OBP and will always hit his 25-30 HR's, but also strikes out at a ridiculous rate, hits for a very low average, plays horrendous defense, and clogs up the bases when he does get on (he has a career OBP of .367 but has NEVER scored 100 runs). He either walks, strikes out, or hits a HR, and he doesn't hit enough HR's to make up for his faults.

On paper he looks like a productive hitter, but he is a black hole in the order that does not mesh well with other members of the lineup and is possibly one of the biggest rally killers in baseball.

I understand Ibanez is up there in age, but people need to start worrying about his health when there is actually something to worry about. He is in better shape then half the rookies in baseball right now. I have always been a fan of Ibanez, and people will finally realize what a complete hitter he is now that he actually gets to play on a team that will be in the spot light.

He is a rally killer when he strikes out with men on 2nd and 3rd because he is trying to jack the ball to never never land. He is a rally killer when he can't take the extra base to get into scoring position or score from second. Ibanez doesn't have wheels either, but he is a good base runner and if he is on second and somebody hits a single he is scoring 8 times out of 10. Burrell has had the fortune of hitting in a very talented lineup behind some extremely gifted hitters and has only eclipsed 100 rbi's once. I hate when people think RBI's are some sort of accident. Burrell gets on base 37 times out of a hundred, Ibanez gets on base 35 times out of a hundred....is it really that big of a difference? What is a big difference is Ibanez is able to put the ball in play and is a great situational hitter. When a hitter makes out, its not always for the worse, they are called productive outs. You look to put the ball on the right side of the infield if there is a runner on 2nd, you look to hit a sac fly with a runner on third. These are the little things that Ibanez does that will not show up in the boxscore. With Burrell its all or nothing, same with the Custs, Giambis, Dunns. People comment on these player by just looking at their stats and NEVER watching them play. And I can tell you this there is no worse kind of player than these kinds when you are trying to put together a collectively productive lineup, not just looking at numero unos stats.

Yanks09 -- Are you saying you watched 162 baseball games last year? Cmon man, NrMax is a hardcore Met fan believe me hes seen Burrel a ton as i have. Granted i havent seen much of Winn, but his numbers are worse got more years and more cash each year while also making the lineup very lefty heavy (if ya buy into that sorta thing). Ibanez is a good player, but it was a small mistake by Amaro. not terrible but not good either. We misjudged the market with Krod too...

metsknicksrutgers,

I HAVE watched every Phillies game the last 3-4 years and yanks09 is completely right. Mets fans see Burrell when he's been killing them over the years and are eschewed to that. I've seen him over the long haul. He is a very good OBP guy but I'm tired of seeing Vic and Utley on second and third with one out and then have Howard and then Burrell strike out to end any rallies. Ibanez will change that.

“I think that there are lot of front office guys that believe that Sheffield can still be a good hitter. I think that idea is based on reputation, mostly.

Sheffield's bat speed clearly isn't what it used to be, and he has a long swing that depends greatly on his raw ability to make consistent contact. He still has awesome plate discipline, and I think there's still some pop in his bat when he gets ahold of one, but I just don't see any way that he makes enough solid contact to be a good hitter.”

See, that is what I was saying the other day, and you questioned me on it.

This guy has lost a lot of bat speed, to the point where he is really only hitting junk and off-speed stuff. Oh, and the National League is more of a FB league. He also has this interesting ability to hit very well at home, but not put the bat on the ball when on the road. Not an encouraging sings from a player with fewer than 40 games played in the outfield over the last three years. The fact that its only NL teams showing interest shows me that they are probably going more off reputation on a player they have not seen much over the last few years – where the AL clubs he faced consistently want nothing to do with him.

Neither team has interest in Pierre.

Posted by: mford | April 02, 2009 at 11:51 AM

I wasn't suggesting that. Read.