Roy Halladay's Potential Suitors

I really, really can't see the Jays trading Halladay to the Yanks, Sox or any other AL East team. Unless they are ready to conceed the next few seasons as the worst team in the AL East then they won't do that. The Orioles ill be a much better team over the next few years. As for the Yanks or the Sox I don't think either would want to trade Hughes or Buccholz to a team in the AL East either. I really think that unless they are confident they can extend Halladay PRIOR to the trade being completed then there's no way they give up Hughes or Buccholz for 1 1/2 years of Halladay. Either of them can be 15 game winners in the near future at a lot less than the $15 mil or better Halladay would command.

The Brewers are interesting. I agree -- I don't think they trade more of their young talent away for what would be an extended rental. But you could make the case they should go for it in these next two seasons while they have some of their core guys in place. Hardy is almost certainly gone after 2010 if Escobar stays in the organization, and Fielder is gone in 2011 (or earlier if they trade him).

From Toronto's end, what are they looking for, philosophically? Depth? Whatever package offers the best prospect?

I have to believe they are not looking for Blue Chips outfielders. I mean that spot is already crowded for years to come. My best guess is the package needs to start with a top notch pitching prospect and a infield prospect.

the phils have one in Taylor absolutely tearing up AA and they have a catching prospect and ss prospect they could part with.

Marson Donald and Taylor plus a couple of pitching prospects? get it done

The Jays don't need pitching prospects. The have a tonne already. What the Jays need is a 3B and a SS for the future. Brewers, step up.

If not, then someone's getting Roy AND Vernon Wells. The Jays won't screw this up. If the are trading away the best player in franchise history, they need to do it to save the franchise long term and that means getting rid of Wells contract.

how do u think the phils don't have the prospects for it..there loaded with pitching prospects..im thinkin something along the lines of

Blue Jays Get:
Carlos Carrasco
Dominic Brown
Joe Savery
Lou Marson

Phillies Get:
Roy Halladay
BJ Ryan (Blue Jays contract dump)

Exactly what both teams need as Carrasco has top of the rotation potential which was seen during the Futures Game last year and then as of late in AAA. Savery leads the minors with 11 wins and Dom Brown is a 5 tool centerfield prospect. Make it happen RUBEN!

Look the red soxs are out Clay Buchholz is there best prospect which will likley end up in cleveland for V-Mart.
The Yankess dont need another starting pitcher and i dont think Hoilladay would like to be a 4th starter for the yankess.[i dont think they would trade hoilladay to the same divison!!!]

ok the Mets, and Brewers dont have the prospects! The white sox have the people but will only give up the ones that are doing bad for them.

Dodgers - They'd likely have to part with Chad Billingsley or Clayton Kershaw to obtain Halladay.Rangers - The Rangers have the prospects, but not the money. Angels - Probably lack the premium pieces the Jays would seek. that just says it right there!

Which Leaves the phillies and cubs both have the prospects but both have the problems of taking his pay roll!! so were going to have to see how it plays out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WrigleyTerror I'm sorry to burst your bubble but the cubs don't have the prospects to get Halladay.

ok i know im a cubs fan so im just going to say this how about Jeff samarja, and Bobby scales, and hell we will threow in aaron miles and another pitching prospect, and infield prospect.

I know that this will never happen so im just putting it out there.

1) White Sox aren't giving up Beckham
2) Samardjia, Scales, and Miles for halladay? Nice dream.

As a Phils fan I see them having to give up 2 of the five "untouchables" (Brown, Taylor, Drabek, Carrasco, Knapp), plus some other pieces (obviously Donald is logical if they don't have a SS in the pipeline)

I don't see Toronto as too interested in anyone off the big club except maybe Victorino (even then, Wells has dropped anchor in CF and Vic is getting pricier through arb) or Happ...would rather not move Happ at this point, but I think we could manage that with prospects instead

I think I would start by offering Brown or Taylor (BJ preference, I think they are close overall, probably both top 6-7 minor league OF prospects at this point), Drabek or Carrasco or Knapp (all hard throwing, high ceiling guys 22 or younger), plus Donald (should be close to ML ready if he can turn in around in AAA after his injury.

I do not think that is too homerish. Maybe throw in another speculative lowball guy like Sampson or May or J Rodriguez (all with plus FBs) or a Zach Collier

WrigleyTerror I'm sorry to burst your bubble but the cubs don't have the prospects to get Halladay.

Posted by: Devmac | July 07, 2009 at 09:33 AM

2) Samardjia, Scales, and
Miles for halladay? Nice dream.

Posted by: tschram | July 07, 2009 at 09:37 AM

YA YA GUYS I KNOW I WAS JUST PUTTING IT OUT THERE OK PLUS WE DO HAVE SOME GOOD PROSPECTS BUT I AGREE NOT even close to get haillady out of toranto. ok i know just putting it out there

If the Red Sox trade Clay Buchholz for Victor Martinez I will attack Theo...Any Yanks deal would start with Joba...Any Sox deal will starts with Clay and then players Theo won't want to trade...I think the White Sox have the right chips.

This is more about moving that Vernon Wells contract than it is getting value for Halladay. They'll listen, once they hear something decent they'll say ok, halladay and wells and you have a deal.

Wrigleyterror, you hit the nail right on the head. that will never happen. EVERY team in the MLB could match or exceed that value. Once again (for the 2nd day in a row), you're an idiot.

Posted by: wiscobrew | July 07, 2009 at 09:41 AM
ok i know ill keep my trade roumers about the cubs in my head but i know that it wouldnt work. What do u mean the 2nd day in a row?
my bad copyed wrong thing.

"Blue Jays Get:
Carlos Carrasco
Dominic Brown
Joe Savery
Lou Marson

Phillies Get:
Roy Halladay
BJ Ryan (Blue Jays contract dump)"

Considering the Phillies big issue with picking up Halladay already is the 7M salary, I don't see how they'd be able to take that on AND a salary dump type of contract.

the phils have said that they are willing to take on salary for a pitcher. plus next year they have a couple of salaries coming off the books to help with the 15 mil that they have in his salary

28 out of 30 GMs in baseball would take Billingsley's talent/contract/age over Roy Halladay any day of the week...

I am sure many would prefer Kershaw straight up as well...

Rosenthal is a fool for printing such rubbish...

He would be better off just saying the Dodgers do not have the prospects to make a Halladay deal.

Dicky LaRue: Outside of Hughes, the Mets have a similar system to the Yanks. Its just a matter of what you need. Yanks have pitching tons of it, the Mets have a lot of interesting hitters. I think the the Mets could make a deal based around
F-Mart or Flores,
Parnell,
Ike Davis,
Tejada
Rustich

that might not be exact value (if it was F-mart it would be) but its close.

Sorry but no GM would rather have Kershaw then Halladay your an idiot.

Also as a Jays fan there is like 2 dumbies that keep saying add Wells to a deal the rest of us are like why kill what we could get? Not to mention I'm not sure even the yankee's would be allowed to add that much contract.

ROFL Jays fans are delusional. No team is going to pickup the contract of Vernon Wells. He's like the 2009 version of Albert Belle.

Posted by: Matt | July 07, 2009 at 09:59 AM

LOL NICE BURN

Arron Poreda
Clayton Richard
Danial Hudson
Brandon Allen
John Shelby

for

Doc

So I guess Halladay is not getting traded.......

@Derman: While the Phils have $30 plus million coming off the books alot of that gets eaten up in arb. Cots doesn't factor in arb. numbers until they are set when looking at next year's payroll. Blanton and Victorino will eat up at least half of that, and Halladay the other half. The Phils will also have a hole at 3rd next year with Feliz leaving. So unless they are willing to add $10-12 million more to fill 3rd, the bullpen and bench then I think they have payroll issues.

Now I do think they are one team that can do it if they want to. They have a passionate fanbase and could raise some prices to counter balance the additional payroll.

I do agree with the poster that said the Phils prob won't look to take any bad contracts. The only piece they would add, though it wouldn't really lessen the return would be Jose Bautista. It could save the Jays an extra $3.5-4 million next year and give the Phils a nice UTL guy.

I like that trade Knoxfire. But as a White Sox fan, I would rather give up Dexter Carter and take Daniel Hudson out of the deal. I think the Jays would still do the trade

Well, on second thought, Beckham/Poreda/Flowers/Carter might be a bit steep.

I don't know. I think Beckham's a must, but beyond that, I'm thinking two good pitching prospects (maybe the Sox keep Poreda) and another position prospect, preferrably one of ones that might join the 1B/DH logjam (Flowers/Allen).

A team like the Yankees or Red Sox could pull this off, but your return would be seriously diminished... like a Ellsbury/Bowden return or a Cabrera/McAllister return... and even that might be too much given what Wells is owed through 2014. Wells, factoring in age, contract, production, and defense... might be one of the 2 or 3 worst players in the league.

Posted by: carini26 | July 07, 2009 at 09:36 AM

--------------

Wells is a lot of poo-poo but if Halladay could be had with McAllister being the biggest piece added then I think the Yanks make that deal. Salary relief would come by not bringing back Damon, Matsui or Pettite next year. Also, might signal the departure of Wang in the off-season. A rotation of CC, Halladay, AJ, JOba and Hughes is pretty good. However, I seriously , seriously doubt the Jays would trade Halladay to a AL East team.

The notion that a trade to the Sox or Yanks would net the best return is absurd. There are plenty of teams that could put together ust as good of a package as either of those to Al East beasts. If Wells is NOT attached to any trade for Halladay then I would say at least 10-15 teams would be interested. While his salary is somewhat high @ $15 mil it's still fair market value and it's a short term commitment so it's not like a team would be handcuffing themselves and their payroll flexibility.

I still say that Texas has to be the #1 contenders. They are not a division rival, they have the prospects and while they can't really add signifigant payroll they can definetly offset his salary by declining Padilla's option for 2010 (12 mil - $1.75 buyout) and using Blalock's 09 salary once he leaves as a FA. That's a net of about $16 mil that Texas could use to cover Halladay's 2010 salary of $15 mil.

Halladay fits Ryan's pitching philosophy of going deep into games and gives him a solid #1 to go in front of Milwood who's 2010 option I think will be picked up.

I mentioned this trade yesterday:

Halladay for Justin Smoak, Taylor Teagarden, Martin Perez and Julio Borbon.

A staff headed by Halladay and Milwood plus 3 of Holland, Feldman, Hunter, Harrison, McCarthy would be a top staff and with their offense should make them a top contender in 2010 in the AL West.

Plus they would have Feliz in another 2 years and a 1st rnd pick if they can't extend Halladay, which I think they have a good shot at doing considering the kind of guys Halladay and Ryan are. Seems like a perfect fit.

I also agree Vernon Wells is a candidate for worst contract in MLB but.....perhaps this is part of a larger ploy to swindle some team into taking on Wells with Halladay.

If a team was willing to do that; I imagine the price (in terms of prospects) for Halladay would be greatly reduced.

Otherwise, I think the haul the Jays will need for Halladay in terms of prospects will be extremely large.

One out there, random thought I had was the Cubs.

New ownership loves to make a splash and Halladay gives them an arm just like Peavy. Additionally, the Cubs have prospect talent, money and a need for a better CF.

So (and I say this with expectation of being laughed at)....

Cubs get:
- Halladay
- Vernon Wells and all the salary that comes with Wells

Jays get:
- Milton Bradley (bad contract too but much cheaper and only until 2011 instead of 2014 like Wells)
- Sean Marshall - decent SP/RP at a low cost
- Jeff Samardzija or Carlos Marmol
- Micah Hoffpauir

"How about Beckham, Poreda, Flowers, and Dexter Carter for Halladay."

I think the White Sox are an interesting partner for the Jays. They not only have the prospects, but are willing to deal them...and $35 Mil coming off the books after 2009, so they'll have the payroll flexibility to add Halladay.

I still think there is No way you can give up your top three prospects. Beckham will be a high impact offensive player for a decade with the Sox.

I would rather give up Alexei Ramirez plus Poreda, Dexter Carter, Jhonny Nunez, John Ely for Halladay.

Melonis there will likely be a chance giving to any team trading for Halladay to extend him which makes the deal better. Why wouldn't you allow that if it improves what you can get?

nixa37, you might not want to part with those guys but it's tough. If your GM thinks Halladay is the final piece to winning a WS - wouldn't you have to consider it? The window to actually win it all for most teams (Red Sox, Yanks not included) is incredibly small.

For the Jays, Roy Halladay is the most revered player in team history - He's the teams Tony Gwynn (or name any other player regarded in that way).
The price has to be very steep.

Posted by: deeselig | July 07, 2009 at 10:31 AM
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Oh I realize and I stated yesterday that I thought the Blue Jays should target an elite young player like that to build any deal around. I also think certain teams with a small window and not much on the horizon would consider something along those lines. I just don't think its a smart more personally unless their are extreme circumstances.

Let's get the opinions of some unbiased fans here. Would you trade top young SP for 1.5 seasons of Halladay? I'm talking someone in the Price, Hanson, Kershaw type mold. I know I wouldn't.

Posted by: nixa37 | July 07, 2009 at 10:21 AM
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It certainly depends on the teams philosophy. If you're in a win now mindset and Halladay gets you over the hump (Phillies, Yanks, Angels) then maybe you take that chance. But the Dodgers are dominating their division and have enough quality pitching to dominate a 7 game series and win it all. No way would the DOdgers trade Kershaw for Halladay. At 21 the Dodgers will get a lot more mileage out of Kershaw than they would Halladay. Halladay is certainly the better pitcher as of today but acquiring him might be a difference of winning the west by 13 games as opposed to 8. Not a big deal, as opposed to a team truly in a battle that might blow their load for a guy like Halladay.

From a Yanks perspective, I would prefer to pass on any trade involving Hughes or Joba, unless an extension could be made. Even that being said it would still be a tough call because I feel that either Joba or HUghes has it in them to be 15 game winners in the next year or two and eventually FOR guys. It would probably cost the Yanks 5/100 to extend Halladay and in 2 or 3 years having 3 pitchers in their early to mid 30's making a total of $60 mil is ugly, even by high roller standards.

A three way trade between the jays, phils and yanks would be sweet in my opinion. I'm not familiar with the phils system but a deal like this would work for all three.

Blue Jays get:
Z-Mac
Austin Romine
Phils prospect
Phils prospect

Phils get:
Halladay

Yanks get:
Rios
Reliever (Accardo or downs maybe)

I think the mets could attain halladay if they really wanted to

F.martinez
J.niese
J.mejia
B.parnell
R.tejada
And if not enough through in ike andor havens

A three way trade between the jays, phils and yanks would be sweet in my opinion. I'm not familiar with the phils system but a deal like this would work for all three.

Blue Jays get:
Z-Mac
Austin Romine
Phils prospect
Phils prospect

Phils get:
Halladay

Yanks get:
Rios
Reliever (Accardo or downs maybe)

Posted by: C.Roy | July 07, 2009 at 10:47 AM

So the Jays trade away Halladay, Rios, and Downs for two low level Yankee prospects and two "unknowns" from the Phillies?

This is one of the worst posts/trade ideas I have ever read...

The phils prospects would be top prospects. Like I said I don't know their system.

"Smoak, Teagarden, Perez and Borbon, represent 4 of the top 10 players in the best system in baseball."

Teagarden's stock has dropped, big time. That's still a fair deal.

And again, a lot of the reason why Texas's (and Oakland's) systems are so highly ranked is not necessarily because they have tons of elite, A-level talent (Feliz/Holland/Smoak for the Rangers, Anderson/Cahill/Carter for the A's) but more that their systems are so deep in B+/B level guys.

"Kershaw has a .207 OBA. That is lower than Lincecum, and 3rd best in the NL (after Gallardo and Haren). I'm not saying he's better than Lincecum at this point, but he is much closer to that level than Price or Hanson, who haven't shown anything at the major league level yet. Kershaw's WHIP is 1.31, his ERA 3.49."

you forget the jays just suffered through AJ Burnett who you could say a lot of the same things about.

Though I don't believe the Dodgers have the pieces to acquire Holliday in prospects. Elbert, McDonald, and Lindblom or Withrow would probably have to be the starting point, and I imagine it'd take 2 of the top 5 position prospects, too.

Posted by: dodgersdan | July 07, 2009 at 10:54 AM

Probably not in prospects, but they've got some young cost-controlled guys like Ethier, Loney, etc. who could probably get it done. Personally, I don't think I would consider moving ANY of those guys, but they certainly have value if LA decides they need more pitching. (Not sure if they do, really. Seems like this kind of discussion was going on last year and nothing happened. Wouldn't expect a big move this year either.)

No WAY do I move Kemp or Kershaw though. I don't think there's a single player in baseball whose expected value over the next few years (Sal minus performance) would be equal to either of those guys.

I have always thought the Brewers and Blue Jays have matched up well.

I think something along the lines of Hardy, Taylor Green (upside is probably a Bill Mueller type), Angel Salome, and maybe 2 pitching prospects (would have to be A ball level and below as the Brewers only decent pitching prospects are located there)

Devmac, you said the jays are looking for infield prospects, this would give you a SS for a couple years in hardy who you could probably sign for about 8 million a year, Green is your 3rd base prospect, and Salome at catcher.

If they Jays were very desperate to unload future salary, I would not mind throwing Hart and rios into the deal, as Rios is the better player but with a worse contract.

I just looked at Wells' contract. Holy merde! What were they thinking? I'm not sure you could get any team but the Yankees to take him and Halladay together for "free".

Nevertheless, feel free to call Theo with a proposal of Halladay and Wells for Buchholz and Lugo. It might get a discussion going.

I feel like Rios will return to being one of the best young OF in the game but if he doesn't it makes the deal not worth it.

Devmac - Maybe. Nobody is saying Kershaw will unquestionably become an ace pitcher, but I'd certainly put my money on him over Price and Hanson, who are no more guaranteed by any means. They have proven nothing at the major league level yet, while Kershaw has made All-Star hitters look dumbfounded.

DavidA - I can't really see the Dodgers parting with any of their major league starters for a pitcher. Team chemistry is too important to the club, and I think the front office is well aware of that. I don't think the need for another starting pitcher is great enough to outweigh that. I'd expect the Dodgers to go after a pitcher, but not one that'd cost anybody on the 25 man roster (except maybe Pierre, obviously).

I remember talks of this trade

Tim lincecum for alex rios

Good job jays

"Smoak, Teagarden, Perez and Borbon, represent 4 of the top 10 players in the best system in baseball."

Teagarden's stock has dropped, big time. That's still a fair deal.

And again, a lot of the reason why Texas's (and Oakland's) systems are so highly ranked is not necessarily because they have tons of elite, A-level talent (Feliz/Holland/Smoak for the Rangers, Anderson/Cahill/Carter for the A's) but more that their systems are so deep in B+/B level guys.

Posted by: melonis rex "

I disagree Melonis, in terms of 'A' prospects, what team outside the Giants or O's had more entering the season? Certainly not the Yankees or any other teams ranked out of the top 10 systems.

Also Teagarden has dropped some in the prospect rankings but Smoak has sky rocketed up the rankings. He will easily be a top-5 prospect in all of baseball next year. Borbon has moved up as well, and he could be at the bottom of the Top 50 next season. Perez has amazing upside, and will be among the top pitching prospects going forward.

When you compare that Texas offer to what the Philly fans or others are offering (some seemingly in the ballpark of Halladay's value), its far superior. I think a fair value trade from Texas would be Smoak, Perez, and 2 of either Ramirez, Wieland, Hunter, Hurley, Font. Now that package is short on position guys, but I don't see the Rangers moving both Smoak and Borbon, unless thats all they had to give up.

The Jays won't get anything not even a Dollar for Wells, and I'm not sure packaging him with Halladay would even work. Rios on the other hand could be fairly valuable as a CFer if he starts getting hot.

Yankees:
Roy Halladay,SP

Alexis Rios,OF

Blue Jays:
Joba Chamberlain,SP

Austin Romine,C

Robinson Cano, 2B

Jeremy Bleich,P

Ryan Pope,P

Texas vs Yanks.

Texas system is much, much deeper than the Yanks AND they have players already stacked behind mlb players. Obviously, some of these players may or may not be in Texas' long-term plans however:

Chris Davis is ahead of Justin Smoak

Salty is ahead of Taylor Teagarden

Holland and Feliz are ahead of Martin Perez who is probably 2 or 3 years away

Hamilton, Cruz and Murphy should be in tact for a few more years but OF'ers is probably the one place where losing a Julio Borbon might hurt a little.

Yanks on the other hand can't afford to lose Ajax as Cabrera and Gardner are not locks for the future, Posada has 2 years remaining and while Cervelli is great defensively Montero and ROmine should challenge him. McAllister still has to prove himself as a major league caliber pitcher but probably projects as a mid-rotation guy like an Ian Kennedy as opposed to a stud pitcher.

The prospects are comparable but the Yanks would be gutted if they made that deal whereas Texas would still have some really good prospects left above the single A level.

Maybe before you tell someone else to look at stats you should do so yourself? Hanson's already in majors, he has a 4-0 record, a .205 BAA, a 1.25 WHIP, and a 2.25 ERA. He was also just named NL rookie of the month. I know Hanson doesn't have as many ML IP as Kershaw, but that's largely because the Braves had to many SP to start the season and didn't want to start his service time clock before absolutely necessary.

Posted by: nixa37 | July 07, 2009 at 11:20 AM

Actually, nixa37... granted it's 36 innings and stupid to bring up stats at this point, but Hanson's 4.87 FIP, 5.75 K/9, 4.50 BB/9, and 37.6% GB rates are all well below league norms. He's been incredibly lucky thanks to a .227 BABIP and leaving nearly 90% of everyone on base, which is absurdly high.

Again, I think Hanson is going to be a tremendous pitcher, but if we're throwing out current stats to justify awesomeness... Hanson has been anything but a stud pitcher up to this point.

Romero's older and more polished, but doesn't have the stuff of a Hanson or Kershaw. You're comparing apples to oranges.