Frank Thomas To Retire

Frank Thomas, one of the most feared hitters of the past two decades, is calling it a career, MLB.com's Scott Merkin and Doug Miller report. Thomas is scheduled to have a Friday press conference in Chicago, where he had his greatest years, to announce the move.

Thomas has impressive career stats by any measure. He is 18th on the career list in home runs with 521, and his rate stats are even better: a career .301/.419/.555 batting line.

Thomas did not play in 2009, and had a .240/.349/.374 line in a 2008 season split between Oakland and Toronto.

With 1,311 games at designated hitter, and just 971 at first base, the debate will begin as to whether a primary DH belongs in the Hall of Fame. From this view, it will be hard to keep a hitter as dominant as Thomas out of the Hall.


122 Responses to Frank Thomas To Retire Leave a Reply

  1. Bravoboy10 5 years ago

    He’ll be first ballot in my opinion, Edgar Martinez as well

    • No doubt. First ballot. No questions asked. Look at that line! That has to be one of the most impressive CAREER lines in recent history. Maybe Bonds, Pujols, and Ramirez have comparable career lines, but that is really impressive! The Big Hurt was a top 5 most dominant hitter of the 90’s. No way this guy misses first ballot. Should be unanimous, but there will be one idiot who votes against him, like the guy who didn’t have Jeter on his ballot for MVP (which cost him the win) at all in 2006. Come on now, I’m a Red Sox fan and I can see that clear as day, I don’t know how someone couldn’t. But you know Big Hurt will face the same idiots.

      Was Frank on the steroids list? I would skew my decision somewhat by that factor.

  2. RiverKKiller999 5 years ago

    What a great career he had.He’ll be a HOF no doubt.He was a beast!

  3. Guest 5 years ago

    First Ballot no doubt about it. Just one of the best players of all time and I’m happy to believe that the next time we see him will be with a plaque in his hand in cooperstown. Congratulations Frank Thomas on a great career.

    The game of Baseball will miss you Frank! You were one of the players who did it the right way.

    Thank you for everything Frank Thomas! See you in cooperstown! You did a great job!

  4. lakersdodgersyankees4life 5 years ago

    He’ll be in the hall… maybe not first ballot but relatively quickly..

  5. A first ballot hall of famer and a great tipper!

  6. soxluv 5 years ago

    The end of a great career. By far the best hitter to ever play in Chicago.

    • InTheKZone 5 years ago

      What about Ernie Banks?

      • start_wearing_purple
        start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

        Pretty much across the board Thomas had better numbers.

        • InTheKZone 5 years ago

          I’m not saying he didn’t have better numbers. He may be the best hitter but not by far. No offense to soxlove.

          However, I always liked Thomas and he very well should be a first ballot Hall of Famer.

        • markjsunz 5 years ago

          Of course Mr. Banks did not have the benifit of steroids. Another Sham from the steroid era.

          • cderry 5 years ago

            Thomas’ name has never come up in steroid talks and Jose Canseco knew Frank and never once named him. He’s the only man of that size that I feel was always that big. He played Tight End at Auburn for god sakes.

          • studio179 5 years ago

            This is coming from a Cub fan. Thomas was a great hitter from any era, he just raked. The funniest reference about steroids I have ever heard from any baseball player, came from Thomas. After his Sox days, he had a radio interview and steroids came up. He was asked if people questioned him much on steroids since he put up big numbers in the PED era. He laughed and said he’s sure there is someone who will question his numbers. Then he said, “have you seen my sisters? We come from a big family”.

          • BrocNessMonster 5 years ago

            You joking? I can’t tell, but that better be a joke. The guy was six and a half feet tall and 240 pounds when he got in the league as a kid… He was a football player. Just a big kid. You can see with the other guys, all of the sudden huge HR spikes. Thomas was a beast from the get-go. Look it up. Even on the “reports” from the “officials” that threw around accusations towards everyone and anyone, he wasn’t listed.
            Pretty easy to go throwing out garbage like that about someone when you don’t have to look at them in the face or support your claims…
            Asshole

      • R_y_a_n 5 years ago

        Ernie Banks may have been the better overall player, but Frank Thomas’ hitting stats really were incredible, even for his era.

      • soxluv 5 years ago

        Banks was a great player, not near the hitter Frank was.

  7. rockiesfan_303 5 years ago

    First ballot deserving no question. Same with Thome.

  8. fisk72
    fisk72 5 years ago

    Thank you Frank. Looking forward to #35 on the wall at 35th & Shields.

  9. Suzysman 5 years ago

    Wish you best Frank. Thanks for the memories!

    As far as trying to keep DH out of the HOF – sometimes its unfair. Like Frank would have been a 1B if not forced to DH by the Sox after the addition of Konerko. How do you stick by a “but you were a DH” stance when its almost exclusively because of the team they played for?

    • Guest 5 years ago

      The thing is Suzysman (you are right by the way), Thomas had a much better career than Edgar Martinez. His numbers are HOF deserving where as Edgar’s are borderline.

      • Suzysman 5 years ago

        Edgar Martinez is not borderline – his only hangup is he played DH

        • Guest 5 years ago

          Yeah but now that Thomas retired and his numbers are much better than E-Mart’s, I can’t see Martinez getting in.

          • bjsguess 5 years ago

            Much better?

            Edgar Martinez posted a career line of 312/418/515. During his offensive peak years (95 – 01) his stat line was 329/446/574. That’s an average OPS of over 1025 for 7 years.

            Thomas posted a career line of 301/419/555. During his offensive peak years (91 – 97) his stat line was 330/452/604. That’s an average OPS of over 1050 for 7 years.

            They are remarkably similar. Throw in ballpark allowances, players surrounding them, etc and I think you are looking at nearly identical players. Thomas gets the slight nod offensively, while Martinez gets bonus points for playing 3B until his age 30 season.

            If one goes the other absolutely should go as well.

          • Suzysman 5 years ago

            Thanks for doing that. I didnt want to get into it with him, lol!

    • start_wearing_purple
      start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

      I think its more of a matter of how can you keep a DH out of the Hall when they’re one of the best hitters of any generation.

  10. billmelton 5 years ago

    If I were clean and saw guys like Sosa, Bonds and McGwire juice it up and get millions in endorsements, I’d be a little ticked off too. Glad that I got the opportunity to see him play in the early 90’s and I’m glad he got a WS ring.

    Guys like Thomas and Ken Griffey Jr. played clean during a time when it would be way too easy to go to the dark side like McGwire and Sosa. Thomas’ testimony before Congress on steroids was unforgettable and should be watched before any writer decides to vote for McGwire, Sosa and Bonds for the HOF.

  11. thebigdog 5 years ago

    Frank Thomas = one of the worst clutch hitters and fielders ever

    • Suzysman 5 years ago

      .282/.435/.553/.988 with RISP
      .254/.433/.501/.933 with RISP and 2 outs
      .283/.418/.554/.972 with men on
      .367/.452/.655/1.106 with runner on 3 less then 2 outs
      .262/.436/.474/.910 with runner on 3 and 2 outs
      .253/.386/.488/.875 late and close
      .279/.400/.542/.942 high leverage
      .237/.404/.504/.908 in extra innings

      Yeah, boy did he ever suck in the clutch :/

      • Guest 5 years ago

        He was anything but non-clutch.

        “.367/.452/.655/1.106 with runner on 3 less then 2 outs”

        If I was a pitcher I would have just surrendered at that point.

        • thebigdog 5 years ago

          Yes, and he was a career .301 hitter … check out the other BAs on the list. He also had an annoying habit of drawing walks on pitches 2″ outside in situations where the team needed a hit. His late inning walds often hurt the team more than helped.

          No offense intended … just the facts.

          • Suzysman 5 years ago

            Ignore the numbers above, they are someone else. New numbers in later reply (Sorry bout that)

            Oh, but just because its hysterical and really puts your opinion in question – you rate value based off BA?

      • thebigdog 5 years ago

        .253/.386/.488/.875 late and close
        .237/.404/.504/.908 in extra innings

        The man may have been the greatest first inning hitter I’ve ever seen, but when the game was on the line late, he had trouble even getting the bat off of his shoulder. I don’t know if it exists, but if it does, compare his first at bat production to his last at bat in a game… you’ll see what I mean.

        Harold Baines = clutch
        Frank Thomas = not so much

        • Suzysman 5 years ago

          Oops!!!

          You know what, I seem to have given the wrong lines there. Had multiple pages open, must have grabbed the wrong player (thinking those above are possibly Edgar Martinez)

          Anyway, to give the correct lines:

          .312/.447/.569/1.016 – RISP
          .311/.438/.566/1.004 – Men on
          .293/.401/.545/.946 – none on

          .390/.446/.696/1.142 – On 3rd, less then 2
          .298/.464/.599/1.063 – On 3rd, 2 outs
          .291/.453/.565/1.017 – 2 outs, RISP

          .333/.536/.528/1.064 – extra innings
          and to provide the answer to your question
          .291/.411/.556/.967 – first inning

          So the Thomas numbers went from great to wow.

          • thebigdog 5 years ago

            “and to provide the answer to your question
            .291/.411/.556/.967 – first inning”

            Two quick points:
            1- Thank you for providing the info
            and
            2- That really didn’t address my point.

            I was a huge Frank Thomas fan when he came up and for the first couple of years. I just became disgusted with the fact that he rarely took the bat off of his shoulder in the 8th or 9th inning of a game in which the Sox were down by a run or two.

            I was actually asking about production … not stats. I would like to know Big Frank’s RBIs per at bat for his first at bat in games vs his last at bat in games. While I’m confident that he was far more productive in his first AB, this doesn’t even take the real “clutch” factor into account because there are so few real clutch situations over the course of a season.

            I’ve always put a lot of weight on those situations and that is why guys like Clemente, Yaz, Brett, Perez, Garvey, Baines, Yount, Molitor, Puckett etc… were always my favorite players. Frank Thomas not only didn’t compare to these players, but as a lifelong Sox fan, I could name 3 or 4 guys I’d rather have seen up with the game on the line, especially Ventura.

    • 0vercast 5 years ago

      This guy killed the Twins for years in the clutch. One of the most dangerous hitters I’ve seen.

  12. Frank Thomas reached base 748 more times than Andre Dawson in 695 fewer plate appearances.

    If he doesn’t get in on the first ballot, then we’ve reached the point of idiocy that no society ever recovers from.

    • BaseballFan0707 5 years ago

      Especially since Dawson doesn’t deserve to be in over the likes of those that were close to him in the voting this year to begin with.

    • start_wearing_purple
      start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

      We hit that when Bowie Kuhn was elected into the hall when he’s widely considered to be one of the worst commissioners of all time.

    • Guest 5 years ago

      Mike,

      Tim, You, Harold, Ben, and Zach should be voters.

      • R_y_a_n 5 years ago

        That’d be awesome. Dave Cameron and the guys at FanGraphs too, that is it.

        • Guest 5 years ago

          And you and I, Ryan. Also Suzysman, MorneauVP, and Infield Fly!

  13. Hellobrooklyn 5 years ago

    MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYTHING, FRANK THOMAS DID THIS CLEAN!!!!!!!!!

    • Guest 5 years ago

      Absolutley. Thank you!

    • dodgers1111 5 years ago

      How do you know he was clean? Did you test him.

      • BK 5 years ago

        Frank Thomas was probably the most outspoken player AGAINST steroids in the mid 90’s before it became an issue.

        • Suzysman 5 years ago

          Yeah, he and Juan Gone were always really quick to speak against them…

          Oh wait :(

          That said, my heart holds hope for Hurt

      • billmelton 5 years ago

        Frank Thomas was the most outspoken player against PEDs. Check out his testimony before Congress in 2001. Especially against the mealy mouthed Sosa and McGwire. Toward the end of his career, Frank was hurt a lot and, unlike McGwire, refused to juice up.

        That’s the really sad part of this. The acts of Sosa and his ilk have put this shadow over every player, clean or no.

    • bjsguess 5 years ago

      Why does he get the presumption of innocence while others are just assumed to have used Roids. I don’t care what he says. Do we really need to go down the list of players who were outspoken critics of steroids only to find out they were users?

      I’m not a fan of assuming everyone juiced up. I’m also not a fan of assuming that “player x” was clean just because he said he was. At best we can say that Thomas appears to have been clean.

      • BK 5 years ago

        Because in 1994 he and Tony Gwynn were the only people who publicly lobbied to test for steroids and at that time Alan Selig told them to sit on it and spin!

  14. dodgers1111 5 years ago

    He probably juiced to.

  15. nextyankeedynasty 5 years ago

    2014 is going to be one heck of a Hall of Fame Class…..Thats Maddox, Glavine and Frank Thomas just of the top of my head……

    • Suzysman 5 years ago

      Neifi Perez!!!!!

      • R_y_a_n 5 years ago

        Dusty would vote him in, first ballot!

        • Suzysman 5 years ago

          1 vote, thats all I ask.

          Maybe Joe Morgan will do us the favor.

    • redsandyanksfan 5 years ago

      to bad big unit couldnt retire with his 300th win last year that would be a hell of class with maddox glavine thomas and the unit wow

  16. BK 5 years ago

    I rarely post on these walls, but growing up to be a baseball addict I have to credit Frank Thomas with being a big part of it. The contradiction of a 6″5 250 hitter being a high average guy was amazing. Plus he was always smiling (in his prime) and was very good to fans. If he doesn’t get into the hall on first ballot it is a travesty.

    The argument that he was a primary DH is not a great one. The majority of his quality stats came as a 1b. His career avg would have been closer to .315 had he retired after his first year with the Blue Jays, but instead he served as a DH into the years where his body was less solid. Even then he had hall of fame numbers.

    A big thanks to The Big Hurt, for all he did to make me the baseball fan I am.

  17. coolstorybro222 5 years ago

    He is one of my favorite players of all time, and one of the best first basemen of all time. If Thome and him are in the hall of fame, I will die happy.

  18. Encarnacion's Parrot 5 years ago

    Anyone who can left that ginormous rebar and swing it around should be in the HOF.

    Reason Frank will be first ballot: His career line of .301/.419/.555 is one of the best you’ll find within the last 25 years. 521 home runs is no cake walk either. He was also very clutch.

    Reason Frank won’t be first ballot: Voters are known to have no boundaries to their douchebagging, a la Alomar.

  19. vtadave 5 years ago

    Time to load up on his 1990 Leaf rookie card.

  20. drumbum2011 5 years ago

    Back in the days when he was known to me as ‘Darth Thomas’ via Batgirl, he was one of the scariest batters of all time. I hope he gets to the Hall.

  21. billmelton 5 years ago

    To provide context, I found this:

    ” SABR member Ray Flowers examined the first four years of the greatest hitters in baseball history and came up with a list ranking them. The list shows Runs Created Above Average, so essenitailly it’s how much above an average offensive player they were. These figures have been adjusted for the park they played in.

    1. Babe Ruth 459
    2. Ted Williams 407
    3. Frank Thomas 319
    4. Lou Gehrig 313
    5. Stan Musial 302
    6. Johnny Mize 283
    7. Albert Pujols 281
    8. Joe Dimaggio 253
    9. Tris Speaker 246
    10. Honus Wagner 224
    11. Ty Cobb 224″

  22. tiger313 5 years ago

    Frank will get in for one reason other than his tremendous numbers….he did it the right way and the writers will vote him in first ballot to shove it in the face of people who put up tremendous juiced numbers.

  23. NYBravosFan10 5 years ago

    [standing ovation} Congratulations Frank, you had a marvelous career that will definitely end with you getting into Cooperstown. Plus Frank Thomas Big Hurt Baseball with always go down as my favorite Gameboy game lol

  24. markjsunz 5 years ago

    It is doubtful that any player from that era who hit 500 home runs was clean. I hope the hall of fame voters continue to show respect for the game and keep these players out. With the sudden change in the size of these players from one year to the next is enough evidence of steroid use. When what it would take a typical person 5 yrs of working with weights come back from a 4 month off season looking like they put on thirty pounds of muscle it does not take a genius to see what is going on. A whole generation of fans grew up watching a game of cheats, with atta boys from team owners and the winks from the commisoner of baseball. They were no longer Ballplayers they were a bunch of oversized action heroes. It is disgusting. This is my opinion .

    • Suzysman 5 years ago

      research has shown that expansion is the biggest factor in HR increases. When expansion reached Colorado, things were skewed even more. Meanwhile steroids generally mean injury after prolonged use, making it harder to get to the hallowed marks unless used only for a short time or you are such a freak of nature you likely would have gotten there anyway.

      Plus, steroids have been around for years and years – way longer then the “steroid era”, and many HOFers are actually know PED users (just all the chemicals werent considered PEDs back then).

      But if you want to know whats disgusting… Hank Aaron hit his career high in HR at the age of 37 and his age 39 season was by far his largest HR/PA rate (8.6% v. 5.4% career) – steroids!!!

      Steroids were available in the 70’s just the same, and your assumptions about the modern players would have to extend to Aaron and countless others as well. In the end, we would even have to throw out all numbers dating back to the 1890s; that is when the first openly admitted use of steroids occurred – ironically, by a pitcher who is in the HOF.

    • billmelton 5 years ago

      If you didn’t notice Thomas has always looked like a brickhouse, hence the name “Big Hurt”-he never ballooned like Sosa and McGwire. You need to do your homework. Like I stated before, the real shame here is that any power hitter from this era will have this shadow over them.

  25. nostocksjustbonds 5 years ago

    1st Ballot HOFer, no question. One of the best hitters ever.

  26. jingersolcws 5 years ago

    the only two people i trust from that era are Frank and Griffey, but i have no problem with anyone assuming or suspecting otherwise. you almost have to suspect everyone, but baseball created that problem by not taking a stand against PEDs. Frank should be a first ballot HOF but we all know how that goes.

    • Suzysman 5 years ago

      Well we know one thing for sure – we cant trust Neifi!!!

      More then half his career with Colorado (back before the humidors even) and known to be on the juice yet still posts a career .672 OPS!

      How Lord? How is it possible?

  27. brianmcnamee 5 years ago

    If Albert Bell ain’t in, then none of the juicers go

  28. lefty58 5 years ago

    I don’t think there is any chance a DH gets in or deserves to get into the HOF on the first ballot.
    With all the time they have sitting in the dugout, watching film of the players during the game, not freezing or baking in the sun, they should never be given the same treatment as real players.

  29. BrocNessMonster 5 years ago

    Frank Thomas was my favorite player growing up, and of all time. I loved the rivalry between he and Griffey for who would be MVP, and who’s trading cards would be worth more.
    Check this out…
    Manny never posted an OPS+ over .186 The Big Hurt’s career high was .211 (Strike shortened season) Albert Pujols’ career high OPS+ .190
    Manny’s career OPS+ .155 (9437 PA’s)
    Big Hurt’s career OPS+ .156 (10074 PA’s)

    Frank Thomas rocked.

  30. Guest 5 years ago

    Thats because J.P. made everyone on the Blue Jays overwelhmed.

    Ted Lilly
    Chris Carpenter
    Vernon Wells
    Frank Thomas
    Shannon Stewart
    Aaron Hill
    B.J. Ryan

  31. Overwelhmed? What? I have no idea what your post even means.

  32. start_wearing_purple
    start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

    I thought Toronto let Carpenter go because he was injured and largely ineffective in Toronto.

  33. And because he was asking for too much money at the time. Not sure what that has to do with Frank Thomas’ personality though I’m sure SPANdemonium will enlighten us on that.

  34. Guest 5 years ago

    His control of the team and the contracts given out to players on the team. And his failure to really improve the team had a big effect on the players. Do you think Vernon Wells likes going to the ballpark every day when he knows he can’t perform well enough to live up to that giant contract? Lilly and JP got in to a fight in the tunnel. JP is the reason Aaron Hill and Vernon Wells got in to a fight.

  35. Guest 5 years ago

    yeah sorry fellas. Chris Carpenter was a different story. The Jays screwed with Thomas’ playing time clause because he wouldn’t shake hands with his teamates which is unnaceptable but he’s not the only one. They didn’t excersise his option for that.

  36. start_wearing_purple
    start_wearing_purple 5 years ago

    Thought so. I think he’s on the short list of moves where Riccardi didn’t screw up… simply a matter of hindsight 20/20.

  37. Encarnacion's Parrot 5 years ago

    That fight in the tunnel was Lilly vs John Gibbons, not JP. That was after a huge blown lead against Oakland too.

  38. Way to follow up with an even more nonsensical post? I know it’s cute to blame JP for everything but Thomas’ attitude problems were his own fault. Completely off-topic but Wells’ contract was Godfrey’s decision, JP was actually against it. Lilly got into a fight with Gibbons, nothing to do with JP again. Finally, Wells and Hill never got into a fight EITHER; they’re actually good friends and if you’re referring to the infamous ‘Hill is a racist’ video – well that was completely facetious on the part of Vernon. He’s a known joker in the clubhouse.

  39. LordBanana 5 years ago

    I bet Vernon Wells loves making all that money.

  40. Guest 5 years ago

    But there were also problems with Ricciardi and Lilly. Thats right…John Gibbons was the reason why Ted Lilly left. Okay I’m sorry people I made a mistake on that list.

  41. Guest 5 years ago

    Back to Frank Thomas though, I really just think we, the Baseball fans were so lucky and happy to have Frank Thomas in the game. Displaying the right way to hit home runs and just being a gentleman. The guy is a great person, great hitter, and all I can say is:

    Frank, you have a little less than 6 years to write a Hall of Fame speech!

    Thank you for everything Frank Thomas!

  42. billmelton 5 years ago

    I simply don’t know how the writers can show any bias against a player who played a position authorized by the rules and directed by management.

  43. Encarnacion's Parrot 5 years ago

    We should just blame JP for everything. I find that to be more therapeutic :p

  44. Guest 5 years ago

    uh what fight between aaron hill and vernon wells? theyre good friends.

  45. Guest 5 years ago

    Hill and Wells got in to a fight in Baltimore towards the end of ’09.

    JP Ricciardi ruined the future of the Blue Jays until Anthopolous fixed it (a tad).

    Ricciardi passed up on a David Wright-Jose Cruz Jr. trade 6 years ago.

    He traded Michael Young to the Rangers for Estaban Loazia.

    He had a major role in the Vernon Wells contract.

    He couldn’t trade Halladay…They could have had much more than Wallace, Drabek, and D’Arnaud if traded earlier.

    Signing B.J. Ryan to a monster contract

    and more…

  46. “Hill and Wells got in to a fight in Baltimore towards the end of ’09.”
    Complete non-sense. Show me your source on this.

    “JP Ricciardi ruined the future of the Blue Jays until Anthopolous fixed it (a tad).
    Ricciardi passed up on a David Wright-Jose Cruz Jr. trade 6 years ago.
    He traded Michael Young to the Rangers for Estaban Loazia.
    He had a major role in the Vernon Wells contract.
    He couldn’t trade Halladay…They could have had much more than Wallace, Drabek, and D’Arnaud if traded earlier.
    Signing B.J. Ryan to a monster contract”

    And yes please let’s have selective memory and not post any of the good things JP did like draft Lind, Snider, Romero, Marcum, etc, sign Hill to an excellent contract, sign Doc to a discounted contract, everything involving Scutaro, etc. I don’t think JP did a good job but you can’t just post the terrible things he did and leave out the good ones. Sorry. And also this isn’t the BASH JP thread last time I checked but thanks for derailing the conversation.

  47. vw_fan17 5 years ago

    Of course, it was Gord Ash who traded Michael Young to the Rangers, but don’t let the facts get in the way of a good rant..

  48. 0vercast 5 years ago

    Ouch!

  49. Guest 5 years ago

    You were the one who brought up Thomas’ Toronto days. And you are right, JP did do plenty of good things as well.

    And back to Thomas, The guy meant a lot to the game and still does. I hope that people think of his great White Sox days before his Toronto slip up’s. I know I think of the great Frank Thomas who meant so much to the game.

  50. rockiesfan_303 5 years ago

    I like what AA has done so far, it remains to see how the Halladay-less rotation fares from here on out.

  51. Encarnacion's Parrot 5 years ago

    When I think Frank Thomas, I remember how he single handedly got Oakland into the playoffs in ’07. It’s possible Oakland had the smallest payroll at the time too.

  52. Guest 5 years ago

    Well Frank Thomas certainly proved that he is Hall of Fame worthy. He will get in first ballot.

  53. Guest 5 years ago

    The guy is and was just amazing.

  54. Guest 5 years ago

    Well there are about 109934 pitchers on that team. I think Drabek should start come May. DBacksfan, you should be happy about your rotation and team…I’d say the best 1-2-3 in Baseball.

  55. Koby2 5 years ago

    The problem there lies in the fact many voters will not vote for someone on their first ballot since they feel no one should get in on their first ballot.

  56. Suzysman 5 years ago

    “Of the 109 players elected into the Hall of Fame by the Baseball Writers’ Association of America, only 39 since that first class have been chosen on the first ballot… Here, for posterity, is a short list of players not elected on the first try: Cy Young (511 wins), Joe DiMaggio, Eddie Collins (3,315 hits), Jimmie Foxx, Whitey Ford, Eddie Mathews, Rogers Hornsby, Robin Roberts and Roy Campanella. Yogi Berra (67.2 percent in 1971) was not a first-ballot inductee.”

    Yes, tottaly agree. Who wants players like Cy Young, Joe Dimaggio, Eddie Collins, Jimmie Foxx, Whitey Ford, Eddie Mathews, Rogers Hornsby, Robin Roberts, Roy Campanella and Yogi Berra in our HOF! They didnt get in on the first try, so get um out of our hall!

  57. bjsguess 5 years ago

    There are other things to fix in the HOF balloting process that make sense before we go down a path like this.

    How about yanking voting rights for complete morons. You know the guys. They either don’t vote for anyone or vote for people that have absolutely no business being in the Hall.

    That’s just one of many simple things that should be changed.

  58. Suzysman 5 years ago

    Well, your illogical is another mans sense in this very gray-area topic.

    See, many people feel that there are true HOFers and then those players that were astronomical forces who’s talents even boggle the mind of fellow Hall Of Famers. Just because people set the first-ballot aside for the “best of the best”, it doesnt mean the others are any less deserving – it just means they are trying to set something special aside for a special few. And in their minds, your “not first ballot, not HOFer” stance which would leave years between HOF inductions is the completely illogical one.

  59. The numbers don’t change, but the voters and the competition does. Your argument is pretty much a mess in that respect:

    1. The people voting change – Does a guy deserve to be left out because he happened to come up for election during a period where a bunch of voters he ticked off are voting (as opposed to in 5 years, when those guys may no longer be there). By the current system, a player gets to stick around until enough voters exist to form an agreement as to if that player really should be off the ballot or if they should be in the HOF.

    2. The mindset of voters change – Does a guy not deserve to get in because there’s a fad that year about some particular stat that he did poorly in? (even though it’s only one stat out of dozens) From seeing the votes of some of the writers, I think it’s pretty clear that every year some voters have intense periods of insanity (maybe midlife crises or something) that cause them to make completely awful ballots. Having multiple years helps smooth that out.

    3. The competition changes – Does a guy get to be excluded because he happened to be on the ballot at the same time as a bunch of other sure-fire HOF players? Even assuming that a voter could vote for as many people as they wanted, they likely only vote for a handful each year- regardless of the competition. If every player ever came on the ballot in one year, there are still some voters who would probably only pick 10 people. That’s just how folks work.

    The numbers don’t change? So what? The people interpreting the numbers change. The other guys on the ballot change. Both of these can lead to weird effects on voting, and both need to be adjusted for. If you have some magic bullet that works better than the current system for approach this, I’d love to hear it. Your approach seems like something that would lead to just more variance. Worse players will get in because people will vote less conservatively (since they know the player won’t get another shot) and better players will get left off because they got on the ballot during a bad year.

  60. Bernaldo 5 years ago

    The number don’t change but opinions and perceptions do. Players are not selected on the basis of numbers alone. A players numbers are only part of the measure of a players performance. There is no statistical threshold that dictates a player is in or out of Cooperstown and there should not be. Opinions and perceptions of ballplayers careers – like musicians, actors, comedians, politicians, military leaders, and other public figures – do evolve over time and how their careers are judged is indeed subject to debate. Who gets in and who should or shouldn’t has always been hotly debated and given that the weights and measures we apply to stats change over time, that is how it should be.

  61. billmelton 5 years ago

    Mariotti. He gone…

  62. Suzysman 5 years ago

    and we are left with SAYS YOU (since you like to use all caps from time to time, that is a hat-tip to you)

    But really, glad you have that view. Others dont. I didnt even tell you my view on the matter, so you were never given a chance to change my mind. And in the end, it hasnt changed over the last 50 years so guess you will just have to spend the rest of your life upset that the HOF isnt run the way you wish it was.

  63. Totally. One of these days, I’m going to open an exclusive club. It will be so exclusive, some days I won’t even let anybody in. Not a person. We’ll be the toast of the town. The remainder of the days, we’ll only let in Babe Ruth and Marilyn Monroe.

  64. Still waiting on that source..

  65. Suzysman 5 years ago

    “There is no special award you receive for being elected into the hall on your first ballot, it isn’t saving anything “special” as Suzysman put it”

    “please welcome First Ballot Hall Of Famer (insert name)”

    It comes in title form. Its a recognition within a recognition. Its like being named Valedictorian instead of just being one of those on the Dean List. If you cant even recognize that, then it seems your argument is founded mainly in bias.

  66. RanceMulliniks 5 years ago

    No chance Drabek is up by May. He may even start at AA out of the Spring, though AAA isn’t out of the question is he looks good in ST. No reason to start his service time clock when the Jays aren’t competing in 2010. Give him a year of seasoning in the minors, and maybe a September callup. Not like the Jays lack arms, so they won’t rush Drabek.

  67. rockiesfan_303 5 years ago

    Yeah definetly very happy about the rotation, however my only concern is the lack of a lefty at the back end. However getting Washburn or someone would be too costly, so hopefully Kennedy and Buckner pan out or at least are stable backing up those big 3.

  68. RanceMulliniks 5 years ago

    Why 6 years? Thomas will be eligible 5 years after he last appeared in MLB, so he’ll be up for Hall consideration in 2013 (2008+5) which could put him in the Hall as early as 2014. Other on the ballot (for the first time) that year include Maddux, Glavine, Mussina, Jeff Kent…

  69. Suzysman 5 years ago

    It is like valedictorian as it is an accomplishment which will follow you for the rest of your life, and the players will hardly be announced in that way only once. People know full well who the recent first-ballots were – it is constantly recognized and your implying otherwise again points to agenda being the backbone of your argument.

  70. Suzysman 5 years ago

    No, I merely provided the opposite end of the argument in the first post and you have gone on to try to claim how one opinion (yours) is more meaningful then another.

    Your latest post really hits home your agenda though.

  71. Suzysman 5 years ago

    Yeah, because when I type nothing more then “first ballot Ryan” into Google, I clearly dont get 189,000 hits…

    You are trying to argue something into being the case instead of taking something that is the case and argue on its behalf. And frankly, its pitiful. You know full well that when you go to an autograph sesson you will see signs for “First Ballot HOFer George Brett”. You know full well that when you see Ozzie Smith introduced on a sports show it is proceeded by “First Ballot HOFer, The Wizard”. You know full well that guys sitting around San Diego arguing over the greatest pure hitter of all time are trying to make their case for “First Ballot HOFer Tony Gwynn”. Yet here you are trying to tell me it doesnt follow a player? Like I said, pitiful…

  72. Suzysman 5 years ago

    Dude, who is arguing other then you? You are trying to “scream (your opinion) in (my) face” in an attempt to prove me wrong(?) when you have absolutely no idea where I even stand in the thing. It is nothing more then your opinion on a very, very, very, very, very gray topic yet here you are trying to force your way into somehow doing what? You trying to win something? And what exactly would you win, the “I can scream my opinion louder” award? What exactly does that award look like, a Roseanne Barr trophy?

    Seriously man, you need to give it a rest as you arent getting anywhere and merely making yourself look foolish in the process.

  73. Guest 5 years ago

    He’s needs to have a good 2010.

  74. Suzysman 5 years ago

    Your stance makes zero sense. You claim people would need to “look up” a first-ballot player. Do you think Valedictorian is stamped on your forehead? No, it would need to be looked up as well. It is an earned title, just like “first-ballot” is. And both are an earned title that stay with you your entire life – in the case of “First ballot HOF” it is one you will hear constantly when you are referenced by people you have never met, in the case of Valedictorian you might hear it a handful of times a year by close friends and relatives. And it boggles my mind that you somehow claim the title “first ballot HOF” isnt commonly used in reference to those players chosen on the first ballot.

  75. Suzysman 5 years ago

    Saying “thats your opinion. others dont share it” in every single post isnt arguing – its telling you that you are arguing for nothing because there is no right-side/wrong-side to the argument.

    In the face of this though, you have tried to detail your opinion even more in replies while not getting any opinion in return. You are arguing with yourself and are merely pointing the argument towards me telling me your opinion is “EXACTLY how it should be”, that you somehow “DID in fact know (my) opinion on the matter” and claiming an argument where there just isnt one other then the one you are trying to make over your opinion on a gray issue.

    “Besides, what kind of self respecting man over fifty says “Dude” anyway?”

    Well thank you for sharing more of your strange assumptions and strict views of how others should conform to your opinions.

  76. Guest 5 years ago

    “Besides, what kind of self respecting man over fifty says “Dude” anyway?”

    My Grandfather?

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