Hamels’ Agent: Weaver Contract Not A Parallel

Cole Hamels now owns the second-largest salary in arbitration history ($15MM), and he's not stopping there.  Agent John Boggs expects his client to be compensated as an "elite pitcher," and he doesn't consider Jered Weaver's team-friendly five-year, $85MM deal a factor.  Explained Boggs to Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com:

"I don't think it's a parallel.  That contract is great for Jered. I understand it. But he took a different path and left a lot of money on the table. He came up through the Angels system and grew up in their backyard. He's pitching where he grew up. That situation appeals to him. It's a similar situation to when I had Tony Gwynn. Without getting into specifics of what we're looking for, the Weaver situation is unique to Weaver."

Weaver's contract covered his final arbitration year and then four free agent seasons at an average of $17.5MM.  Unlike Weaver, Hamels was a Super Two player, and the salary of his final arbitration year has already been determined.  Hamels' new contract will probably only cover free agent years.  Even if he doesn't reach the $23-24MM range of C.C. Sabathia and Cliff Lee, I think six years and $120MM is just a starting point for Hamels, who will turn 29 during the 2012-13 offseason.

The Phillies have first dibs.  According to Boggs, "When you're this close [to free-agency] you have mixed emotions.  But Cole has come through the Phillies organization, and if you asked him his preference, more than likely he'd want to remain with the Phillies. That's how it would be going into the negotiations, but every negotiation is different. Everything depends on our perceived value of what Cole is worth and what their perceived value of him is. That will dictate if a long-term deal gets done. We'll always give the Phillies every opportunity to secure him."


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96 Comments on "Hamels’ Agent: Weaver Contract Not A Parallel"


Devon Henry
3 years 7 months ago

Weaver > Hamels

rockfordone
3 years 7 months ago

Agree – gross over payment on Hamels

thejohnoparty
3 years 7 months ago

disagree. if you look at their stats, they actually have VERY similar numbers.

Hamels has a higher career K/9 and lower WHIP.. but Weaver has more wins and a lower ERA.
i wouldn’t say that either is better than the other. Weaver definitely has the bigger, tougher role though as the #1 for his team.

NYBravosFan10
3 years 7 months ago

Hamels had a better K/9? I’m honestly surprised by that because it seems like Weaver is more of a strikeout pitcher.

Stuart Brown
3 years 7 months ago

He was in ’10. All of his other years he’s been 7.7 K/9 or lower.

He has a career 7.8 K/9. He only has one year that actually is 7.8 K/9 or higher, and that’s at 2010 with a 9.3 K/9.

3 years 7 months ago

weaver is infinitely better than hamels, and hamels is nothing but a one hit wonder.

thejohnoparty
3 years 7 months ago

LOL one hit wonder?… um. hate to break it to ya buddy, but if you take out 2009, his numbers have actually IMPROVED every single year.

in this case, he is actually a “one MISS wonder”.

good try though. glad the philly hate is still around and kickin full strength.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 7 months ago

Nope. Maybe slightly but their numbers are pretty close to each other.

chico65
3 years 7 months ago

So you’re saying they’re perpendicular then?

3 years 7 months ago

I like the Rays approach to starting pitching.  Draft well, make sure the rotation is always young and talented.  When starters get expensive, recycle them like used soda cans.  Some orgainzations think great starting pitching is the toughest thing to come by, others feel it’s the easiest!

nm344
3 years 7 months ago

Its pretty easy when your team has a top-5 pick year after year. 

j6takish
3 years 7 months ago

I’m sick of this narrative. David Price was a top pick….but Matt Moore was an 8th rounder, James Shields was a 16th rounder, hellickson was a 4th rounder. The Rays know their stuff, you don’t. End of story

nm344
3 years 7 months ago

And the Rays were known to go overslot while other teams played by the rules.  Don’t worry though, that ship has sailed.

vtadave
3 years 7 months ago

So the Rays “broke the rules” by going overslot?

Matt Moore received a $115k bonus.  That was slot.
They didn’t go overslot for Longoria.
They got Desmond Jennings in round 10. Slot.

nm344
3 years 7 months ago

nice cherrypicking.. every team has drafted good players over the years, its just that the Rays can’t afford to trade them away for established players since they cant pay them like the other teams. 

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

who is cherry-picking exactly? you responded to a comment about the rays approach to pitching with the comment “it’s pretty easy when your team has a top-5 pick every year”

david price is the beginning and the end of the list. niemann was a top 5 pick but has next to nothing to do with their success. their biggest prizes were not products of high draft position and draft position has nothing to do with the brilliant contracts they often sign them to

3 years 7 months ago

We call that being smart.

3 years 7 months ago

Only David Price was a top pick. Look at a guys like Jeremy Hellickson and Matt Moore?! Also, just because you have a top pick and use it on a pitcher doesn’t mean ML success for that pitcher. 

redsx968
3 years 7 months ago

Whoever gets Hamels will definitely overpay. But based on how he currently “more thank likely” prefers the Phillies, doesn’t sound promising for a Philly return. He won’t take a discount, that’s for sure.

nm344
3 years 7 months ago

Doesn’t matter what the agent says, its obviously in his best interest to say that to increase leverage.  I expect the extension to be ironed out during spring training or early on in the season.

NYBravosFan10
3 years 7 months ago

it’s already been said that he will not be granting a hometown discount. He wants every penny of what he deserves…what he thinks he deserves

Ron Loreski
3 years 7 months ago

Weaver is a better pitcher than Hamels is. Hamels CAN BE very good, but he’s not consistant enough to be considered a top 5 pitcher, like Weaver is.

Ron Loreski
3 years 7 months ago

Top 5-
Halladay
Felix
Verlander
Kershaw
Weaver

I’d put Hamels probably 8th behind those 5, Cliff Lee and Tim Lincicum, and slightly ahead of Jon Lester and CC Sebathia for the top 10.

nm344
3 years 7 months ago

That’s a good list actually.  

Encarnacion's Parrot
3 years 7 months ago

Somewhere Cliff Lee is crying, wondering how you placed Weaver over him. Sabathia too.

3 years 7 months ago

I’d throw Lincecum out there BEFORE Weaver. 

ultimate913
3 years 7 months ago

Wait. Weaver is better than Sabathia when Sabathia has had the better FIP in 4 of the last 5 years? While 3 of them have been in the AL East? That’s cool.

tonyyanksfan
3 years 7 months ago

If we are talking right now, I would not put Weaver ahead of Lee, Lincecum or Sabathia.  Lincecum should be about tied with Verlander.  I think Weaver currently is about the same level as Hamels.  So, he’s somewhere between 8 and 10.  If you mean projected over the next five years or so, I’d go Felix, Lincecum, Kershaw, Verlander, Price and then Weaver/Hamels (and, of course, watch out for Stephen Strasburg, Ricky Romero and Josh Johnson).

Tko11
Tko11
3 years 7 months ago

Josh Johnson cant even stay healthy.

Stuart Brown
3 years 7 months ago

So disappointing. Imagine if he actually could stay healthy. He’d be top 3 in the Cy Young voting if not the winner every damn year.

vonhayesdays
3 years 7 months ago

how is weaver better than lincecum,   is there some stat i dont know about , like homerism or man crush  and id like another year out of kershaw before we start calling him sandy koufax

danumd87
3 years 7 months ago

A) I agree with vonhayes
B)
Halladay
Verlander
Lincecum
King Felix
Sabathia
Lee
Kershaw
Weaver
Hamels
Lester

If we were talking about over the next 5-7 years then obv Weaver is top 5 along with King Felix, Verlander, Kershaw, and Lincecum (if his arm doesn’t fall off)

Joey E
3 years 7 months ago

kershaw is entering his age 24 season and is coming off 3 great years, most recently a cy young year, and you still need more?

ok

vonhayesdays
3 years 7 months ago

two good , one great , he is good im not dissing your boy over there im just not ready to say he is top five when these other guys have had multiple great years not just the one

thejohnoparty
3 years 7 months ago

i second that, smh

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

“I think six years and $120MM is just a starting point for Hamels, who will turn 29 during the 2012-13 offseason.”

Pass..

The Phillies are getting the best out of the guy. End o story. 

I think we’re going to see a steep regression is offseason spending (at least regarding pitchers) in the coming years. While the team I root for is the main conspirator, a dozen others quickly followed suit. So many are at fault. There was a great article that discussed this the other day during the Montero and Pineda mayhem, about how 99% of the time, a pitchers best years are generally behind them once they sign these mammoth deals. 

I’m not implying Hamels is on par with the pack, because he is definitely a notch above the league, but 6,7,8 year deals to pitchers, I think, is a thing of the past. Unfortunately for Hamels and Cain, they maybe the first few to usher in this new era of new deals. I can’t see either at this point getting more than 5 years and $20mm per year, at best. Maybe Cain because he is younger and his stuff should translate a little better among both leagues. 

Speaking of my team in particular, I like what the Yankees are doing with all the young top of the rotation arms they may have. Kind of like the Braves, Giants (until recently in terms of cost) and the Rays. It’s ok to have one $20mm+ pitcher on the roster, but that’s what Hamels and the ones that follow him have to realize. Most teams are already max’ed out. 

3 years 7 months ago

Hamels and Weaver are comparable from a pitching perspective, but not from a contract perspective. Weaver avoided the risk of a season and a half of injury and signed what’s widely seen as a below market deal. Hamels seems bent on seeing free agency. How many top pitchers have gotten to the open market under 30? 

Using Dave Cameron’s discussion of linear dollars per win, http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/linear-dollars-per-win-again/, I think 6/125 is actually a conservative number on the open market. 

Also, consider the market- Yankees will again be interested in a pitcher, Phillies want to keep him, Red Sox might play and the Dodgers will have a new billionaire owner and hardly any salary commitments. Not to mention potential dark horses like the Nats, Rangers and others. 

The Phillies could head this off with a new deal for him before the season, but barring that and injury, he’s looking at a huge payday. 

3 years 7 months ago

There is also a lot of good pitchers on the market… If his agent uses the Yankees or Red Sox against a team, the team just has to call up Greinke or Cain or Marcum or Lewis or the other like 20 viable FA pitchers…

3 years 7 months ago

True, though not all at his level of production. Cain a comp, but right-handed. Grienke had a higher peak than either, but the large markets, particularly in the Northeast, might stay away on the “mental makeup” front. Not saying they should, but they might. 

Marcum et al. not in the same category.  

Bryan
3 years 7 months ago

Not saying they’re in the same tier, but teams like the Yankees, red sox, dodgers, angels, etc. already have at least one ace, so getting hamels over marcum is more of a luxury.

mvpedroia
3 years 7 months ago

I would take Hamels over Weaver any day of the week..

NYBravosFan10
3 years 7 months ago

I would bet Cashman already has the ridiculous contract offer saved on his computer ready to print out as soon as the deadline for teams to negotiate strictly with their own free agents passes by.

East Coast Bias
3 years 7 months ago

Can’t wit till he hits free agency next year!

Jason Klinger
3 years 7 months ago

Shots fired.

vtadave
3 years 7 months ago

Check again.

Both have two top-6 Cy Young finishes in their career.

Jason_F
3 years 7 months ago

Technically, all starting pitchers are a  “Cy Young entrant.”  I believe contender was the term you were looking for.  In that case, like vtadave mentioned above, they both have two top-6 Cy Young finishes with almost identical career stats.

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

Actually, he was … but riddle me this, how many LCS and WS MVPs does Weaver have?

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 7 months ago

He was top 5 last year and top 6 in 2007 what are you talking about?

3 years 7 months ago

Just look at his name, the guy is an angels homer. End of story.

East Coast Bias
3 years 7 months ago

I would take that argument farther and say that numbers don’t mean anything! lol

3 years 7 months ago

I’m sure soxfankev can clean it up if given the chance!

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

The market is the market, and it determines one’s worth.  He’s not overpriced if somebody is willing to pay him $X

vonhayesdays
3 years 7 months ago

is it just me or do agents seem to be getting slimier and slimier 

3 years 7 months ago

Hamels is an Ace on the vast majority of other MLB teams.  He had one semi-down year in which people cooled their praise, that coupled with pitching 3rd in a stacked rotation and people are clouded to how good he actually is. 

Encarnacion's Parrot
3 years 7 months ago

I like your style.

3 years 7 months ago

Oh and homerism, ridiculous amounts of homerism. 

3 years 7 months ago

Not impossible, certainly if Pujols has a “Pujolsian” season that convinces Moreno to keep spending. 

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

Perhaps, and much will hinge on Haren’s 2012 season. If he pitches well again, I could see him re-signing with the Angels. I do not see them retaining both Haren and signing Hamels. I believe that Angels will look for a younger arm at this point. The Dodgers maybe, but they need to address Kershaw first, which won’t come cheap. 

Since the argument is being made, if I was given the choice Weaver or Hamels and factoring in cost, I take Weaver hands down 10 times out of 10. Not knocking Hamels, but I’ve never been overly impressed with him. 

CC
3 years 7 months ago

Thats what they said with my Phillies last year

notsureifsrs
3 years 7 months ago

and here’s a sample with greater predictive value, the last 4 seasons:

ERA- FIP- SIERA tERA

78 84 3.47 3.76
79 85 3.71 3.41

RationalSportsFan
3 years 7 months ago

9 of Weaver’s 33 starts last year came against the Mariners or A’s…

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 7 months ago

Are you kidding me? The AL West is a joke of division offensively besides Texas… It’s almost like pitching in the National League. Weaver also has the luxury of pitching the majority of his games in a pitchers park versus Citizens Bank Park.

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 7 months ago

I like you’re although I’d definitely have Felix over Grenkie.

vonhayesdays
3 years 7 months ago

greinke?   please

Tko11
Tko11
3 years 7 months ago

Lol @ Greinke…ridiculous. I will take Hamels, Felix, Weaver and Lincecum, Kershaw and Lester over Greinke any day. Greinke barely scratches the top 10. Besides the Greinke nonsense at number 5 I agree with your top 4. Id have Felix at 5 probably. 

j6takish
3 years 7 months ago

How many does Jeff Suppan have?

NYBravosFan10
3 years 7 months ago

you have to get there first to attain those honors, besides the pressure factor that’s a pretty weak argument

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

What are Suppan’s career numbers?

NYPOTENCE
3 years 7 months ago

11 of Hamels’ 31 starts were against opponents in the bottom third of runs scored. 

RationalSportsFan
3 years 7 months ago

Big difference between “bottom third” and “Mariners or A’s”, who were all-time bad.

Thomas
3 years 7 months ago

Your logic is astoundingly brilliant.

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

I lift things up, I put them down.

floydfan08
3 years 7 months ago

what r u smoking?

floydfan08
3 years 7 months ago

what r u smoking?

vonhayesdays
3 years 7 months ago

you must be a new fan , i guess the pujols signing is working after all 

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 7 months ago

Which powerful DH does Weaver pitch too in the AL West?

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

Did the teacher let you use the computer during lunchtime?

vonhayesdays
3 years 7 months ago

the a’s fielded a triple a team that wouldnt have been last in triple a 

typo , sorry

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

it’s relevant.  fan graphs essentially has them as equals based on regular season performance.  while the fact that weaver hasn’t gotten the opportunity, it can’t hurt him, but hamels’ success can help him.

danumd87
3 years 7 months ago

Hamels is far better than Haren so I could see the Angels in on him as an upgrade for an absolutely killer 1-2 punch.

CC
3 years 7 months ago

Nice book mr typical yankee fan but you wouldnt know how good hamels has been. WS MVP and a proven ace.

NYBravosFan10
3 years 7 months ago

my point was that if Weaver was given the opportunity, he could do it. Granted i’m not one to argue towards anything having to do hypotheticals (I hate sabermetrics) but I’m not the one figuring out Hamels’ contract.

Tko11
Tko11
3 years 7 months ago

Yes he is…Just because one team is willing to pay him a certain amount does not mean his production is worth it. Thats like saying that the Sox did not overpay for Lackey or Dice K. 

Stuart Brown
3 years 7 months ago

Strange how their SIERA and tERA are effectively flopped. Why is that?

CC
3 years 7 months ago

Thats what he just said

vonhayesdays
3 years 7 months ago

wow i didnt realize , but occasionally i go watch the a’s play on dollar dog nite , aka every wednesday nite , and they are just pathetic at the plate , watching a whole team a slap hitters just isnt nice at all 

vonhayesdays
3 years 7 months ago

ha,   toronto signing somebody

vonhayesdays
3 years 7 months ago

one worlds series ring  >no worlds series ring   

3 years 7 months ago

Yeah.  Once again, what are you smoking?

Tko11
Tko11
3 years 7 months ago

If you are talking about career WAR totals it is because of his 09 season where he put up a 9 WAR that he even comes close to the other guys . That season is nearly half of his WAR total in 7 seasons (not couting 06). Last year his WAR was 1.7…All the other pitchers I mentioned had higher WAR last year. Even if you look at the two most recent years 1.7 and 2.3. Lincecum in 5 season has a 23.2 WAR. Lester in 4 seasons has a 21 WAR. Weaver has a 26.8 in 6 seasons. So according to WAR all these pitchers are superior to Greinke. I would have Greinke at maybe 8-10 on my list.

dylanp5030
3 years 7 months ago

Huh?

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 7 months ago

You know Hamels gets among the worst run support in the league right?

Phillies_Aces35
3 years 7 months ago

You do realize that Hamels pitched ONE GAME IN Safeco Field and Weaver pitched ONE GAME in Sunlife stadium…

I think you’re just trolling now.

vonhayesdays
3 years 7 months ago

as much as id hate to admit it , you might be right about the salary cap

vonhayesdays
3 years 7 months ago

good thing they resigned that guy to make a push for next year, maybe he was injured or just hit a pop fly to the tune of his 240 avg

Karan K
3 years 7 months ago

not on the giants. hes after lincecum and cain and possibly bumgarner.