Angels Emerging As Front-Runner For Oswalt?

8:58pm: "I can't qualify for everything you hear," said GM Jerry Dipoto to's Alden Gonzalez while reiterating that he is looking for overall pitching depth. "You never have enough pitching, so it's tough for me to say that there's not a time in this season where our situation may not change, but right now, we're very happy with where our pitching is."

10:25am: The Angels are "suddenly the front-runner" for free agent right-hander Roy Oswalt, reports ESPN's Jim Bowden (on Twitter). The Red Sox remain in the mix, though the Rangers and Cardinals are fading out of the picture despite Chris Carpenter's neck problems.

Oswalt, 34, is reportedly willing to sign anywhere and is eyeing a midseason return. Earlier in the offseason he was said to only be interested in playing for a team close to his Mississippi home. Andy Pettitte's return to the Yankees for a $2.5MM minor league deal may have set the market for free agent pitchers coming back during the season, though Oswalt isn't coming out of retirement like his former Astros rotation-mate.

The Angels have reportedly been seeking pitching depth behind their strong front four of Jered Weaver, Dan Haren, C.J. Wilson, and Ervin Santana, though they are said to be targeting out of options players and non-roster invitees. Oswalt at a salary similar to Pettitte's could be the bargain of the year.

135 Responses to Angels Emerging As Front-Runner For Oswalt? Leave a Reply

  1. Oswalt =’s Nytol.
    He can remain in hibernation for all I care.

    • Psst, you don’t need the ‘s after =. We would have gotten what you meant.

    • Devon Henry 3 years ago

      8mil for a year, doesnt deserve 10 after missing all of spring training.

  2. Mystery team will probably swoop in.

  3. johnsilver 3 years ago

    Anaheim is closer to his home than Detroit I guess then according to his reckoning and of course Anaheim is offering/about to offer the same 10m the Tigers did earlier..

  4. BoSoxSam 3 years ago

    Well, I hope that’s not the case. The Angels already have one of the best, if not THE best rotation in baseball. Don’t need to also give them Oswalt..

    • The Angels??? Definitely not. I thought it was the Royals, Twins, Mets, or maybe the White Sox. However, the Angels might have the highest most overpaid rotation in baseball.

      I won’t edit it, but yes it was sarcasm…

      • johnsilver 3 years ago

         Uh-Oh.. I hope u have some asbestos..Undergarments on compadre.. Have a strong feeling some angels fans will be along soon to dispute that one and i ain’t gonna even touch it…

        • Bo Sox and Silver…. I apologize… Oswalt doesn’t bring out the best in me anymore.  My sarcasm got ahead of me, again.

      • BoSoxSam 3 years ago

        Sarcasm? I’ve got assume that’s what that was.

        • johnsilver 3 years ago

           The Angels rotation.. it’s top 3 in the game IMO…

          • Encarnacion's Parrot 3 years ago

            Agreed. The only rotation I’d put ahead of them right now is the Rays. Phillies are still up there too.

          • BoSoxSam 3 years ago

            That’s how I feel about it, too.

      •  Jealousy takes many forms.

    • bahyou 3 years ago

      Phillies beg to differ.

      • BoSoxSam 3 years ago

        Phillies should shut their mouths. That would be a stronger 1-5 than the Phils.

        EDIT: TBH, I’m not totally sure that the Angels are better than the Phils. My point was mostly that the Phils are not in some other tier above the Angels, they’re basically at the same rung on the ladder.

        • Phillies_Aces35 3 years ago

          I’d take the Rays as the strongest 1-5 in baseball.

          • Lunchbox45 3 years ago

            doc lee and hamels are the best top 3 in the game, and 2nd best isnt close

    • jwsox 3 years ago

      Reys=1 phillies =2 braves=3 maybe then the angles

  5. Kevin Swords 3 years ago

    I wouldn’t see Pettitte’s recent contract as a comparable for Oswalt. Pettitte is coming out of retirement after more than a year off. If anything a prorated portion (depending on when he returns) of a $5-8MM salary would seem more logical. Also, he will get a major league deal. It wasn’t too long ago that he was offered $10MM to pitch in Detroit.

    Keep in mind that he could be creating leverage for himself, as the Rangers would not like to see the Angels get deeper.

    • wolf9309 3 years ago

      well it’ll be a minor league deal, but only so that he has time to get ramped up in the minors- otherwise they’d have to start him in the majors on day 1.  

  6.  Probably would take more than $2.5 mil to sign Oswalt.

    • johnsilver 3 years ago

      When Paul Byrd can get 1.25m to sign in August (2009) to pitch half of a season and Clemens can get a pro rated 20m deal to pitch half of a season. The petite deal for 2.5m is an out and out steal for the Yankees.

      The market might have changed some for oswalt and he has injury issues, but i still think he will find something now if he really wants to sign with any team in the 7-8m range. maybe even up towards the 10m he turned down a few months back from Detroit.

  7. Running Scared 3 years ago

    this guy is a primadonna. And getting older everyday. You can have him if he is this wishywashy.

    • Lunchbox45 3 years ago

      In what world does making a decision based on the best scenario for your FAMILY being a primadonna?

      • MaineSox 3 years ago

        In the world of an offended Tigers fan.  Right Edward?

      • Running Scared 3 years ago

        k. Just cant get past the circus. but….

  8. FS54 3 years ago

    WOW that will probably be the best 1-5 rotation. Angels are going all in this season.

    • Lunchbox45 3 years ago

      I’d still take the rays rotation. 

      • Encarnacion's Parrot 3 years ago

        You could put Brian Tallet’s mustache in the 4th spot, and Brian Tallet himself in the 5th spot, and I’d still take the Rays’ rotation over all else.

      • MaineSox 3 years ago

        For next year I’d take the Angels rotation.  Long term I’d take the Rays, but with essentially two rookies (relative unknowns), and uncertainty about which Shields is going to show up, all they really have for sure next year is Price.  Weaver, Haren, and Wilson were all in the top 9 in fWAR over the last two years (I know WAR isn’t the be-all-end-all, especially for pitchers, but you don’t do that without being really, really good).

        Once the Ray’s rookies show what they really are, and show that they are acclimated to starting the majors, I would definitely prefer them over the Angels’ rotation, but I’m guessing that the Angels rotation will be better for next year.

        • johnsilver 3 years ago

           “and uncertainty about which Shields is going to show up”

          Not to mention on the road vs tough AL east teams. he has a knack for getting eaten alive at fenway.Seem like Maddon up until like last year was skipping his turn in the rotation when they visited Fenway a year or 2 so he would avoid pitching there.

        • FS54 3 years ago

          What he said. I was not looking at all these stats but thinking along the same lines.

      • Hate to bash your opinion on this but: are you serious?

        Jered Weaver
        Dan Haren
        CJ Wilson
        Ervin Santana
        Roy Oswalt

        This is the kind of rotation that reminds me of the rotations the Yankees put together in the mid-to-late 90’s with Clemens (who one could argue was at a similar stage as Oswalt when the Yankees got him); David Cone; Kenny Rogers; Jimmey Key; David Wells.

        The Yankees have the edge in comparison, but the rotation I just listed is about as close as you can get in this era.

        What I find the most interesting is that anyone would argue against that rotation in this new age that emphasizes pitching and defense.

        • Lunchbox45 3 years ago

          weaver, haren, wilson are all good pitchers, but have met their expectations.

          Price, Hellickson and moore have been good and have yet to reach their potential.

          Perhaps with oswalt it tips it in the favour of the angels, but as it stands right now, Price, Shields, Moore and Hellickson, to me at least combine to make the best rotation in the league . 

  9. As a Ranger fan I hope the Angels sign him.

  10. Tigerfan93 3 years ago

    Oswalt is washed up and will get hammered in the American League. I’m so happy he decided not to sign with Detroit and hope he never does. He hasn’t even been that great in the heavy hitting NL the past two years.

    • Andrew Steven 3 years ago

      So they should sign him then right? lol

    • 1980CHAMPS 3 years ago

      I’ll be even happier when the Tigers are ousted in the first round of the playoffs because they play in the worst division of baseball: the AL Central.

      • jjmss1778 3 years ago

        Yeah because what division you play in REALLY determines how you perform in the playoffs.

      • Tigerfan93 3 years ago

        So with your logic, the Rays should win the World Series every year since they play in the AL East, the best division in baseball, right? Pretty sure Detroit knocked the Yankees out in the first round last year, so how’s that for playing in the worst division in baseball. How about them Phillies though? 

    • Phillies_Aces35 3 years ago

      Doubtful. Other than Texas/LAA the AL West is a terrible offensive division and outside of the AL EAST the only tough team is Detroit.

      The difference between the AL/NL outside of the AL East is overblown.

  11. rpoabr 3 years ago

    Signing Oswalt would be a great thing for the Angels. First, they really could use the depth, not so much just to fill out the 5th spot but just in case of injury and such. You can pretty much count on someone going down on any pitching staff for a significant part of the season.

    If (big if, granted) he did come back into any kind of solid form, he could open the door to trade away Santana if the right player came up mid-season. Maybe a closer or high end 3B?  This also assumes that one of the current 5th spot candidates is tearing it up in AAA or as a long reliever.

    At 2.5m it would be a steal, i think it would be closer to 5-6M.

    • BK 3 years ago

      Say it with me.  You NEVER EVER EVER trade a serviceable starter for a closer. 

      • LazerTown 3 years ago

        especially one that gives you a 3.50 era over 220 innings.
        The return would have to be very high for them to give up a starter like that. 

  12. MaineSox 3 years ago

    I’m just wondering where all the “leave some players for other teams,” and “they’re just trying to buy a championship” comments are?

  13. YES! Just as I thought they would!

  14. ChrisV 3 years ago

    What plagues me is how the Angels keep finding the money to spare…you don’t spend a few to 5 or 6 million just because you could use some depth when your staff is already one of the top in baseball, the season is about to start, and you have already spent WAY more than you said you would. The Angels must really want to win right now…what if they don’t? Oswalt right now doesn’t impact their season much at all, so Angels save the money for a guy you will definitely need come midseason. If you are lucky, Oswalt will still be around and at a cheaper cost. 

  15. ChrisV 3 years ago

    I have done a statistical comparison for this upcoming season between the Rangers and Angels:

    Rangers team BA: .285 OBP: .353 
    RBI from starting lineup: 668

    Angels team BA: .272 OBP: .345
    RBI from stating lineup: 577

    Rangers bullpen: 3.60 ERA, WHIP: 1.18

    Angels bullpen: 3.73 ERA, WHIP: 1.31

    This is just a few of the stats.

    It doesn’t take an analysis to know the Angels rotation is better than the Rangers rotation, but the Rangers rotation is one of the younger ones in baseball.

    The Angels win in the rotation…so spend the money on the lineup or bullpen where it is needed not where it isn’t. Need depth? That is what farm systems are for.

    • Nick Sossamon 3 years ago

      They did spend money on the lineup, his name is Albert Pujols.  And if Morales can be even remotely close to what he was in 2009 (who knows what will happen there, still up in the air) then that’s two legit bats.

      If they can grab Oswalt on a flier for the 5th rotation spot for a few million, who really cares.  They also have Williams, Richards, Bell and a few other options for the 5th spot as well if Oswalt doesn’t do well.

  16. All the “buying a championship” talk is bugging me because I know it comes from a place of ignorance.  All Angels fans know that the positive changes that came from this off season were many seasons in the works – its happening now because we scored a great GM in Dipoto.  The last few seasons we’ve attempted to sign a big bat but Reagins couldn’t pull it off.  Dipoto got us Albert.  Our other costly signing came in the form of CJ Wilson – it was costly but strategically brilliant.  Its important to note that these two moves alone do not make a championship caliber team.  the reasons we are Sports Illustrated’s pick to win it is because we made the right adjustments.  
    1. Trading Chatwood for Ianetta (no $$ spent and we doubled OBP from our last catcher.)  
    2. Moving Mark Trumbo to 3rd potentially (puts the power back at 3rd base for the first time since Troy Glaus.  making room in the lineup for rookie of the year runner up just cushions the lineup even more) 
    3. The return of Kendrys Morales (2 years in the making we finally get our MVP Candidate back. Hitting behind Albert Pujols could give us two of the best bats in the game. Talk about a 1-2 punch. And no, $ is not a factor here.  Im just gonna throw this in here: Vernon Wells cannot possibly have a worse season than he did last year – so i see another bat there as well)
    4. The additions of both Latroy Hawkins and Jason Isringhausen (2 guys we signed for cheap who no one else would really bet on because of their age.  It works for the Halos because these two vets will give Walden the mentoring he needs to become the games premier closer.
    5. Sticking with the guys who didn’t stop fighting last season.  (This is more my opinion but I think this team is championship caliber because the guys who are here from last year – mixed with adjustments = wins.  The 2011 Angels, made up of a bunch of nobodies, kept it close all the way down to the wire.  Any Rangers fan who says they had no worries at all has to be either crazy or a liar.  The guys like Bourjos, Kendrick, Aybar, and Trumbo are starting to make names for themselves. With the additions of a few new guys and the adjustments we made we have a stellar team.  Our rotation last year with Weaver Haren and Big Erv was one of the best 1-2-3’s in baseball and were keeping it like that again this year. One of the best.)

    – A little long winded, but needed to be said.  This team made 2 very big splashes this off season, but aside for the one day shopping spree in december; the reason were gonna be a great time is not just based on those moves. It was a collection of everything around it. 

    • MaineSox 3 years ago

      I think I’m the only person who mentioned them “buying” a championship, and it was a sarcastic directed at the people who say that about the Red Sox and Yankees every time they sign a backup infielder, or relief pitcher.

  17. Everyone arguing in here are losers

  18. yonigrey 3 years ago

     This would be a terrible signing for the Angels. They need a horse at the back of the rotation who will eat 200 innings. Oswalt will get injured a couple times during the year, and will throw off the consistency and continuity of the rotation. The Angels at this point need a reliable “stopper.” The injury risk of all of their pitchers (Ervin Santana’s past history, Jered Weaver’s poor “W” mechanics) increases their need for a proven horse, even if he is just a LAIM (league average innings muncher). Look elsewhere, Angels.

  19. PushDown 3 years ago

    I highly doubt this actually happens. Even in the unlikely scenario that Williams and Richard don’t work out, Brad Mills is actually having a fine spring training, so we have a lot of options. That said, I wouldn’t mind, nor be pissed, if Oswalt comes. If anybody can do it, it’s JeDi. 

    Also to the people who think Morales won’t be good because he hasn’t “played” baseball in two years, you do realize he has been hitting and practicing for months now. Spring Training was for him to get his in-game timing back, not reintroduce him to the art of hitting. He’s looked good so far, and I wouldn’t be shocked if he puts up good numbers.

  20. all he is looking to do is get on a playoff team with out doing the hard work during the season and just jump on a contender in july, i think this is classless of him if his body cant handle a full season retire

  21. Oh, for sure. But their rotation is not, nor is their defense. And I believe there’s an old saying about pitching and championships.

  22.  Compare the road numbers and get back to me.

  23. There certainly is no argument that the Rangers’ lineup is better, but the gap has closed considerably, more than most would think. 

  24. Actually there is a very strong argument against that.

    Look at the Rangers road stats.

    Kinsler, Hamilton, Young (exception 2011), and Cruz are all skewed by their home ballpark.

    The Angels have scored more runs on the road than the Rangers the last 3 years!

    You put the Rangers at the Big A for 81 games and their offense could be worse than the Angels was the last 2 years.

    Always keep home ballparks in mind.

    And always keep in mind that you need a lot more than a lineup to prove who the better team is.

    The current Rangers lineup is probably the most overrated lineup they’ve had in years.

    Throw in another Juan Gonzalez, Pudge, Palmeiro, or Will Clark, and then you have an argument.

  25. If I had a time machine, I would.

  26. And if I had a time machine, I’d tell Ruben Amaro to try and get a 3-4 punch of Pujols and Morales to complement his 2011 pitching staff.

  27. Tell that to Nelson Cruz last year.

  28. Doesn’t matter. Pitching and defense is what wins. That’s why the defense has the ball.

  29. They still might.  As someone mentioned, this might just be a leverage ploy.

  30. I know, it’s gonna be tough for Phils’ fans this year. They still have a pretty solid team, though.

  31. The Angels D is better than the Rangers? Do tell.

  32. Tom R 3 years ago

    Two gold glovers in the outfield surrounding Peter Borjous,arguably the best CF in the game.  Gold glove winners in the infield with Aybar and Pujols.  Versatile reserve infielders that are competent at multiple positions.  Heck, even Dan Haren was a GG finalist last year.  But the Rangers are better?  Where besides 3B?

  33. Okay. It just is. Because I say it is.

  34. 1980CHAMPS 3 years ago

    Angels have had one of the best D’s in both leagues over the last number of years.  Rangers had what…the most committed errors last year?!

  35. Angels defense is WAY better! You shouldn’t need stats to know this.

  36. Encarnacion's Parrot 3 years ago

    Gold Gloves?


  37. roomwithamoose 3 years ago

    So Derek is one of the best defensive SS’s in baseball history due to all of his gold gloves? gold gloves aren’t a good measurement for someone’s defensive prowess. It’s more of a popularity contest.

  38. You’re right. I’m so sorry for not recognizing the immense gold glove numbers y’all have. Bourjos (at least take the 2 seconds it takes to google his name) is the best CF in the game? But where is his gold glove?

    Kinsler > Kendrick
    Napoli > Mathis/Iannetta

    for starters.

  39. CHendershott 3 years ago

    Bourjos the best CF in MLB?? Ummm let’s see, Kemp, Granderson, and Hamilton are all better, and that’s just off the top of my head.

  40. Blue_Bomb 3 years ago

    The second half of your punch hasn’t played since May 2010.

  41. I love how GG’s have gone from the pinnacle of defensive achievement to a laughingstock.

  42. Yup, but he’s going to in 2012.

  43. MaineSox 3 years ago

    I don’t think it has closed all that much.  They added Pujols (unarguably one of the best hitters in the game), but beyond him they don’t have much offense still.  Their best hitter last year was Howie Kendrick who had a .349 wOBA, which would have been good for 7th best on the Rangers last year (just slightly better than Craig Gentry).

  44. Look at the road stats! Don’t be fooled by the Rangers home ballpark!

  45. MaineSox 3 years ago

    You can’t just throw out the numbers they put up at home though because they are still going to play 81 games in the same park again this year (and so are the Angels).

    You could look at wRC+, which takes park factors into account, and see that the Rangers had a 113 wRC+ as a team last year, while the Angels had a 96 wRC+.

  46. Nick Sossamon 3 years ago

    The Angels will also have Morales AND Pujols in the core of their lineup this season, and the Rangers have pretty much the same offense as last year (albeit an awesome one).

    With the Angels staff, the additions of Morales and Pujols will be more than enough to get some additional wins. That on top of grabbing Wilson as well and they could pick up 10+ wins over last year, depending on how healthy Morales can be. He sure looks okay in spring training so far.

  47. Throwing out the Rangers home stats is exactly how you determine how good their lineup really is.

    In fact, determining how good a lineup really is probably involves how they produce at a number of different ballparks aka on the road.

    Believe it or not, the Angels had one of the better offenses in the AL on the road.

    Overall, the Angels were actually 5th in the AL in Runs w/ RISP and 2 outs!

    Productive outs was their issue, in addition to just not producing at home.

    Enter Albert Pujols, Kendrys Morales, and Chris Ianetta, on top of the same remaining cast of characters that grinded their way through playoff contention until game #160.

    The Angels don’t need a launch pad to win like the Rangers do.

    The road stats actually point towards the Rangers lineup being worse the last 2 years, and you shouldn’t need any metrics to tell you how those stats are adjusted to ballparks.

  48. MaineSox 3 years ago

    Kendrys hasn’t played in more than a year and a half, so there’s no guarantee that he’ll be effective this year.  And even assuming he is, two players (no matter how good) can’t make up that much difference in total team numbers.

  49. I guess we should be upset that we are going into next season with a top 3 offense?
    I like all Angels fans thinking Morales will come back as a frontrunner for MVP. Go ahead and put all of your eggs in that basket.

  50. That’s what I thought.

  51. Elvis made up the majority of that. I like that the Angels D is better because you say it is…

  52. Yea, let’s just get rid of stats. I guess Angels fans just like people to take their word for it. “Just trust me, the Angels defense is better.”

  53. They don’t like it when you don’t just trust them…so just trust them. They know what they’re talking about. OK!

  54. Shrug, I could very well be wrong. 

    A good percentage of my beliefs are based on speculation:

    -That Morales will come back and produce (and no, I don’t expect him to be an MVP frontrunner [sorry KyleB]). I don’t think .270/20/80 is out of the question, as long as he stays healthy.

    -That Vernon Wells at least partially bounces back. 

    -That players hitting in front of Pujols (Bourjos/Kendrick/Aybar) will see increased production as a result.

    -That our new catcher actually bats over the Mendoza line (okay this isn’t speculation at all).

    Again, allow me to reiterate that I’m not delusional enough to suggest that the Angels are as good as the Rangers offensively. But I can’t be faulted for taking into consideration all of the aforementioned speculations (some likely to be true, some rather a stretch) and projecting a considerable offensive boost for the Angels this year.

    All the advanced metrics, home/road splits, and so on and so forth from last year are fine and dandy. I simply feel that at the end of the season the Angels offensive numbers across the board will be substantially closer than last year to those of the Rangers.

  55. Snoochies8 3 years ago

    jeter winning the gold glove in 2009 and 2010 is just one of the reasons why they’re a laughing stock

  56. Encarnacion's Parrot 3 years ago

    Rafael Palmeiro winning it for playing 18 games at 1B is what killed it.

  57. Oh absolutely.

  58. I’m an Angels fan….the sky is blue.  Awaiting your response.

  59. MaineSox 3 years ago

    “That players hitting in front of Pujols (Bourjos/Kendrick/Aybar) will see increased production as a result.”

    Protection theory is a myth.  People have tried to prove it statistically and have never been able to find any evidence that it is real.

  60. MaineSox 3 years ago

    Because he hasn’t played baseball in over a year and a half.  Baseball is all about timing and missing long periods of time can mess things up a lot.  Guys go to rehab outings after missing 2 weeks worth of games to get back into the swing of things, you don’t think missing 18 months or more of baseball could mess a guy up?

  61. MaineSox 3 years ago

    That’s a lot of assertions, but there isn’t even a hint of statistical evidence to back any of it up.  So here:

    UZR, DRS, and TZL all agree that Pujols is better than Moreland.  +3 Angels

    UZR, DRS, and TZL all say that Kinsler is better than Kendrick.  So you don’t get that one.  +3 Rangers

    UZR, DRS, and TZL all say Andrus is a better fielder.  +3 Rangers

    Again UZR, DRS, and TZL agree and Beltre is better than either Callaspo or Trumbo.  +3 Rangers

    UZR and TZL don’t do catchers, but DRS says Iannetta is better.  +1 Angels

    UZR and TZL both say Cruz is a better fielder, while DRS has Hunter as a better fielder.  +2 Rangers  +1 Angels

    UZR, DRS, and TZL all say Bourjos is better.  +3 Angels

    UZR, DRS, and TZL all say Hamilton is the better fielder (in all three positions).  +3 Rangers

    Angels = 8

    Rangers = 14

    Maybe if I get bored later I’ll break it down as the actual numbers for each player in each stat and weight them per inning and come up with team stats for each, it would be more scientific, but I have a feeling it would come up with the same conclusion.

  62. Snoochies8 3 years ago

    it’s not an error if the player doesn’t have the range to get to the ball.  

    gold gloves: 1999 palmeiro winning the 1st base gold glove playing all of 18 games at the position and jeter winning in 2009 and 2010….enough said

    judging a player’s D based on errors and gold gloves is like judging a hitter based on RBIs and Runs and judging a pitcher based on wins

  63. MaineSox 3 years ago

    Okay, so here it is.  I used three year weighted averages, figured their ‘per-game’ rates, and used their ZiPs projections to project how many games they will play next year, then found the total team numbers for each of the three major defensive metrics:

    DRS – 30.6
    UZR – 50.2
    TZL – 21.8

    DRS – 54.0
    UZR – 71.3
    TZL – 23.7

    So, done the most scientific and least biased way possible, it shows the Rangers having a fairly significant advantage over the Angels in all of the defensive metrics (with the exception of Total Zone which is relatively close, but still has the Rangers with the advantage).

  64. Tom R 3 years ago

    Ooh, good spelling related jab!  You really got me on that one.  Thanks for doing your homework and putting Mathis with the Angels.  He’s a Blue Jay.

  65. MaineSox 3 years ago

    I don’t care about it at all, I was simply making a joke.

  66. MaineSox 3 years ago

    So you can safely say he’s fine after two spring training games?  And again, even if he is, he and Pujols aren’t enough to close the gap between the two teams.

  67. MaineSox 3 years ago

    I’m a Red Sox fan.  So I don’t have a bias toward either team, I simply prefer the facts and stats over speculation and unbacked assertions.

    Gold Gloves mean nothing and Kinsler is a better fielder according to every defensive metric.

    And There is a lot more to defense than errors, I don’t watch either player enough to say for sure, but the fact that the metrics all like Andrus better despite all the errors leads me to believe he has a lot more range and is probably making errors on balls that Aybar wouldn’t even get to.

  68. Also Hamilton has a hard time staying on the feild for all 162 he can’t get close

  69. MaineSox 3 years ago

    “Andrus’ errors weren’t important because they were mostly throwing errors.”

    Where does this even come from?

    Of course errors are important, but they are far from the only important thing defensively.  If all the metrics like a player better even though he has more errors he must be doing other things a lot better to be able to more than make up the difference.

  70. MaineSox 3 years ago

    defensive runs saved, ultimate zone rating, and total zone all say he is better, so “watch the games” doesn’t cut it.

  71. Daniel 3 years ago

    If you were trying to be statistical, you should not have consolidated the stats that way.

    Look here
    link to

  72. Ever consider the flaws?

    Your comparison at SS does not excuse the amount of errors Anrus committed in 2011.

  73. wow that is such crap haha cruz is better than hunter?? Yeah he looked great in the WS I loved that catch hahaha

  74. MaineSox 3 years ago

    That’s only one stat, and defensive metrics are probably the hardest to quantify, so I like to look at a combination of all of the different systems of rating defense.

    You also shouldn’t look at one year’s worth of stats because defensive metrics don’t stabilize until something like 3 years worth of data (the stats I was looking at were 2009-2011).

    You also can’t look at previous years of team stats because there are different players on the teams now, so they don’t accurately portray what the current players on the teams are capable of.

    I acknowledged in my post that there is a more scientific way of looking at it, but looking at one stat, for one year in which the players on the teams weren’t the same as they are now, isn’t the way to do it.

  75. Hey, man, love you and all, but you have the most punchable avatar in the history of avatars.

  76. MaineSox 3 years ago

    You don’t like my unimpressed face?

  77. Snoochies8 3 years ago

    but but but…you didn’t watch the games!!11!!!

  78. I was talking about last year. That’s why I included Iannetta. And thanks.

  79. MaineSox 3 years ago

    Yeah, haha, what a load of crap, haha, so lets base our entire perception of a player on one play, haha.

  80. MaineSox 3 years ago

    I wasn’t trying to excuse the errors, defensive metrics do take errors into account and Andrus still comes out better.

  81. MaineSox 3 years ago

    Speed doesn’t always translate to range.  Jose Iglesias (supposed to be one of the best defensive SS prospects guys have ever seen) has outstanding range, but only average speed; Hanley on the other hand is a 30+ SB guy but he has terrible range.

  82. johnsilver 3 years ago

     terrible hands, range.. Everything about ramirez at SS is terrible.. except what is bat generally produces at the position.

  83. MaineSox 3 years ago

    Every park affects a team’s play, not just their home park, so throwing out their home stats does nothing to tell you how good a team is.  What you need to do is take all of the parks they play in into account and adjust for how each park plays on average for all teams which, coincidentally, is exactly was wRC+ does, and according to wRC+ the Ranger’s offense was considerably better than the Angels’ offense.

    “Overall, the Angels were actually 5th in the AL in Runs w/ RISP and 2 outs!”  Situational stats are meaningless, especially ones in such a small sample size.

  84. PushDown 3 years ago

    It’s no like Kendrys just rolled off the bed and just started hitting for the first time in years, he’s been hitting for months now. Spring Training is not supposed to be when he picks up the bat for the first time, it’s supposed to be for him to get his timing back, and I gotta say, he sure looks good. I’m not saying it’s a guarantee, but I certainly won’t be shocked if he puts up monster numbers again. Just sayin’.

  85. MaineSox 3 years ago

    I’m not trying to suggest that he can’t, simply that it’s far from a foregone conclusion and even if he does it isn’t going to be enough to make up the difference in offense.

  86. Snoochies8 3 years ago

    I dunno if you’ve realized this by now, but logic doesn’t seem to be holding on with these guys…

  87. MaineSox 3 years ago

    Me either apparently because I can’t just drop it…

  88. Lunchbox45 3 years ago

    being well rounded wins games.

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