If any doubt remained about the Reds' intentions for the 2012 season, it has now disappeared — they're going for it. GM Walt Jocketty continued adding to his new-look pitching staff by officially agreeing to terms with Ryan Madson on a one-year, $8.5MM deal. Scott Boras represents the right-hander, who will become the closer in Cincinnati's bullpen.
The contract includes incentives and a 2013 mutual option. Madson will earn $6MM in 2012 and the deal includes an $11MM option with a $2.5MM buyout for 2013.
Madson posted a 2.37 ERA with 9.2 K/9, 2.4 BB/9 and a 48.8% ground ball rate in 60 2/3 innings for the Phillies in 2011. The 31-year-old saved 32 games in his first full season as a closer.
The Reds don't have to surrender a draft pick to sign Madson, but the Phillies will obtain two picks this June because they offered arbitration after the season. One selection will come before the Reds' second round pick and the other will come in the supplementary first round.
Madson could cash in next offseason if he repeats his 2011 performance in Cincinnati. He appeared to be close to signing a $44MM contract with the Phillies early in the offseason, but talks fell through and Jonathan Papelbon signed in Philadelphia, leaving Madson in a market that has slowed down for relievers.
Francisco Cordero had been talking with the Reds throughout the offseason, but it seems unlikely that he'll return to Cincinnati at this point.
Right-handers Nick Masset, Logan Ondrusek, Jose Arredondo, Sam LeCure and Andrew Brackman figure to join Madson in the Reds' bullpen mix in 2012. The Reds also have an impressive trio of left-handers: Sean Marshall, Bill Bray and Aroldis Chapman.
Jocketty has now addressed most of his offseason needs. He can consider an extension for Brandon Phillips and resolving arbitration cases for Masset and Arredondo.
Earlier in the month 17.7% of 13,700 MLBTR readers said they expect Madson to sign with the Reds. He ranked 14th on MLBTR's list of top free agents entering the offseason.
Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com first reported the move. ESPN's Jerry Crasnick added the financial terms and John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer, MLB.com's Mark Sheldon and ESPN's Jayson Stark added detail. Photo courtesy Icon SMI.
Reds sure are stacking up on pitching this offseason.
I have a feeling Latos will be crushed in that park, he’s a product of PETCO, and wasn’t even impressive last year. Marshall and Madson are both good adds. Of course it depends on what the Reds signed Madson for (I’m guessing a 3/30).
In what way is Latos a product of PETCO?
He’s alright at home and terrible on the road. His entire career. Latos is a solid 3 starter on a competing NL team. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him post an ERA of 4 this year.
yah you might want to look at his splits before you talk and lose all credibility.
i didnt even scroll down to the other messages bc i was to busy replyin to Thomas Cassidy, im happy at least someone else looked at his splits b4 they commented
3.11 ERA at home and 3.57 ERA on the road in his career. Just because you seem too lazy to look them up yourself.
I did, but I posted the link and it said I needed to wait for a moderator, I didn’t feel like posting again.
That’s about half of a run better at home. He is a product of PETCO.
He does pitch better at Petco, but how is a 23 year old putting up a 3.57 ERA in 41 road starts in his career “terrible”? That’s pretty good.
It’s going to be terrible when he pitches half of his games at GABP, and posts a 4 ERA there. Not terrible stats, but when you factor in what the Reds gave up for a number three starter, it’s not good at all.
Then you have to consider that ANY pitcher would be “terrible” at GABP, and so have to consider who would be relatively less terrible. In this case, Latos is significantly less-terrible than another option.
Then you have to consider that ANY pitcher would be “terrible” at GABP”. Cole Hamels begs to differ.
Hi, I’m The Point, I don’t think we’ve met.
you sound really knowledgeable, do you work for espn ?
ESPN? What? How insulting.
This is just a case of him being wrong and refusing to admit it.
Oh, wait… on second thought…
He has a 1.93 ERA in Great American Ballpark. Granted, 2 starts is a small sample size. But hey, just keep assuming he’s not going to be able to pitch there if you want.
I agree that Matos isn’t a product of Petco however Hoffman was not a great example for the post-Petco argument. He wasn’t very good for most of his Brewers tenure. He had a half good season but lost his Closer’s role and was only being trotted out in the 9th because of the 600 Saves Mark.
he also was at the end of his career with diminishing skills
I have a feeling that being 42 was a bigger impact than the ballpark he pitched in. But hey, that’s just me.
And for the record – his first season with the Brewers was sick. ERA below 2, WHIP under 1, and nearly a K per inning. Not shabby for a guy that is washed up.
Just one word of advice if you want to maintain some credibility:
a number 3 starter? who taught u how to asses talent? matt millen? lol
Many pitchers are better at home than they are away. Clayton Kershaw,
Cole Hamels, Anibal Sanchez, and Ubaldo Jiminez all have better ERAs at
home. Guess they’re products of their parks as well.
Home FIP 3.25 Road FIP 3.30
thanks for coming out.
Tom Glavine’s career ERA on the road was 3.61. I guess he was terrible, too.
Beavis De Beppo
The good news is, the Reds get to bat when Latos is pitching at GABP, too. Considering their offensive #s the last couple years, I’m quite OK if his ERA floats a tad bit as you assure us it will. Yeah, Latos MIGHT be a #3…. on a half dozen or so teams. He’s a #1 or 2 on the rest of them, though.
Maybe the system thought your denials were too idiotic to post.
Fail. Half a run is your evidence??? Yikes. Get back to me when its at least a full run difference and I’ll start to worry
plz dont talk about something if u dnt have the stats to back it up. he actually gave up more home runs per 9 inn at petco then he did on the road. his whip is 1.15 at home and 1.15 on the road,his era was 4.04 prior to all star break and 2.87 after and b.a. against went down 83 pts (.243/.160) bc he dealt with injury in 1st half and thats the sign of a good pitcher,1 who gets stronger as the yr progresses. if the phillies only scored barely 2 runs a gm for Halliday im sure he would barely have 10 wins also. so just plz know what ur talkin about b4 u start spewing common knowledge and making assumptions based on where a guy pitches and where he’s going to pitch
a solid 3 starter?on the phillies? lmao! plz tell me the statistics to back up ur broad statement. I mean cmon u know ur on a baseball web site so u cnt just make random comments, ppl r going to call u out. i was u for the longest time, hating on other ppls teams bc my team wasnt doing anything, so i understand y u maybe a lil jealous, but there is no validity to what ur sayin. im not tryin to be a @#$hole, but it sounds like ur a hatin Pirates fan to me
I know right, I guess Clayton Richard is a “product of Petco” and will b a 20 gm winner next yr. lol
Sure about that? Check the splits.
Looking right at them. What am I missing? He is better at home than on the road. He is a product of PETCO.
Being better at home doesn’t mean he’s a product of PETCO. It’s not like he has a 3.10 ERA at home and 5.00 ERA on the road…
i like petco they have good dog food..lol
i like petco they have good dog food
you’re missing the fact that most players in baseball perform slightly better at home than they do on the road
you’re missing the fact that everyone pitches better in extreme pitchers’ parks than elsewhere (guess why!)
you’re missing the fact that his stats outside of petco, though to a lesser degree than his stats in it, are still excellent
given all of this, it occurs to me that you might actually just be missing what it means to be a “product” of a certain environment in the first place. you seem lost
he’s also pitched 60 innings less at home than on the road which definitely factors in to the small difference.
You didn’t say “better at petco” you said he’d get “crushed” in Cincinnati, and that he’s a “product” of Petco. You implied that he is terrible outside of San Diego, which what everyone is saying, and disagreeing with. He wasn’t and has never been terrible away from San Diego.
I can’t help but laugh at this effort to call a half run difference as being a product of anything when every other metric is pretty much identical. Nice way to support your weak conclusion by cherry picking your data.
so u saw where is whip is the same and how he gave up less hr per 9 inn on the road? bc thats what im lookin at, not sure what u are
No he is not. Latos has a BETTER ERA on the road than he does at home. This has already been much discussed in Reds country, and 95% of us believe that he is not a product of Petco after much discussion. And how he pitched to a sub 3 ERA in his last 15 starts when he gained some velocity back after his injury. He is far from an unimpressive pitcher.
Dude the guy is only 24. He may not pitch as well in their ballpark as he would in Petco, but he’s got some pretty filthy stuff.
Career 3.12 FIP/3.52 xFIP, 3.48 SIERA.
Away from Petoc Park, 3.30 FIP/3.44 xFIP.
3.2 WAR season in 2011…
But why look at stats when you can make things up?
Because everybody here is baseball expert scouts/projectors. Pssssshhh….Who needs numbers?
Eyeball test…played baseball in middle school…coach in beer league…stat nerd…
Fill in the blanks and you’ve got yourself a canned argument against using logic.
His girlfriend isn’t a looker, means no confidence….Bad ball player…HAHA
yeah what about veronica vaughn?
Freddie Chetti-Diesel Dillon
Strikeouts work in any ballpark last time I checked…
Little known fact, due to the dimensions of the park and the great amount of history associated with it (And also because people feel bad for them), the home team at Wrigley get an extra strike. Considering he’ll be pitching there more often now, your argument is shot.
I have never found a Mat Latos on the shelves of Petco…is he near the lizards?
Read the article. It’s ONE year.
and to all those who say any pitcher sucks in GABP, why did Jonny Cueto have the lowest era in baseball b4 he missed last month and a half of the season?
Well that didn’t happen, good attempt though Nostradamus.
with Arroyo still on their staff, they’re going to need all the extra pitching they can get.. especially in that ballpark.
I think the mono partly affected him in 2011. He pitched the whole season with it, because he didn’t want to lose his prescious “#starts in a row without missing any” stat. I expect much more 2010-esque numbers from Arroyo (around 4 ERA compared to 5+ ERA from 2011).
i was not aware of this.
Or it’s just the fact that Arroyo just isn’t that great a pitcher. A #4 starter at best, at least on an AL team. Mono probably did affect him, I’m just pointing out that to begin with Arroyo isn’t the greatest.
Agreed — Arroyo isn’t that great of a pitcher, but it is likely that mono dragged him down further in 2011.
That said, there’s one thing Arroyo brings to the table that is very valuable to a team like the Reds: he’s a rock-solid 200+ innings pitcher year after year.
Which is decent for a #4. Even if Mat Latos ends up being the player the Reds expect him to be, I still doubt he will bring that team to the division title. The Reds are good; I just don’t see them surpassing the Cardinals and possibly even the Brewers.
I think all three teams have some question marks on paper. The Cardinals need Wainwright to bounce back strong and Berkman/Beltran to produce. The Brewers are most likely losing Fielder and will very possibly lose Braun for a third of the season. The Reds have nobody in left field, a question mark at shortstop, and an oft-injured Rolen at third.
get rid of rolen and bring back chris sabo
What it did to him is cost him about 3-4 MPH off his fastball which use to be 91-92. At 87-89 MPH his FB that had good run inside to RH batters flattened out and became a BP quality offering. Hitter would just lay off anything soft and sit on that FB. Hence the large increase in his HR rate. No one is confusing Arroyo for a great pitcher. But a return a low 4 ERA and career norms in his other metrics will make him a very valuable innings eater
Arroyo was not healthy at all last year. Had mono when the season started and never could get that behind him. While Arroyo will never be the ace of a staff, he is a solid #3/#4 on pretty much any teams roster. He shows up and pitches his spot and eats 200 innings while USUALLY giving you a chance to win.
arroyo!!! he is a hit and miss ..just like the game battleship u never know when he is going to hit for strikes and have a good
What a difference in committed dollars between Madson and Pap.
Who would you all rather: Pap at 4 yrs $50 mil or Madson at 1 year $8.5 mil w/ an option for an additional year at another $8.5 essentially, given the buyout. If you can trade them straight up would you do it if you were Philly?
I’m a Red Sox fan and know how good Pap is, but I think I’d take Madson with his deal any day. Curious what others think too.
um pretty sure the article said what madsen signed for so u shld probably read it again and while i agree petco is a pitchers park his fly/ground ratio is unbelievable and thats why they traded for him. its 1 thing if u have a high fly ball ratio but pitch in a pitcher friendly ball park where those fly balls translate to home runs in Great American Small park, but a ground ball is a ground ball on any field and thats y i feel good about the acquisition. U said Latos wasnt impressive last yr? um, pretty sure he started year on dl so he got off to a slow start, but look at his last 15 starts and the 2nd half of the yr, they stack up to any pitcher in the n.l. And in case u didnt know,pitchers win loss records is probably the most overrated stat in sports.(alla King Felix who went 13-12 and won the cy young)
We bid you farewell, Mad Dog. Good luck in Cincinnati.
I didn’t see that one coming. Although I should say I did so I look smarter.
I mean, who didn’t know the Reds would sign Ryan Madson?
Boras magic or a steal for the Reds? Stay tuned…
The best deals are those when everyone wins.
How about Ruben Amaro going into Free Agency acting like a child with ADHD off his meds.
Steal for the Reds…Boras screwed Madson here…With how much Relief pitchers (esp closers) differ from year to year anything less than three will probably hurt him in the long run..Next year is already building up to be the year of the pitcher..what happens if he gets a small little strain or something and misses a few weeks..This is the definition of walking a tightrope with the future…
I’m guessing 2/24 with a vesting
i really like what the reds have done this offseason.
If the money is reasonable, I like the signing. Madson should be a good fit with them.
YES. Marshall + Madson + Bray + Masset + Arredondo + Lecure + Ondrusek is a really solid bullpen. It also pushes Chapman into the starting role. Hopefully Boras didn’t hurt us too bad. 2-3 year deal I’m hoping.
Boras doesn’t hurt anyone. The teams hurt themselves. I forgot Arredondo still pitched.
He should have a decent year being another year removed from TJ. I mean, he was supposed to be the Angels closer until they released him because of the need of TJ.
I remember him being hyped on the Angels, but haven’t heard a word on him since the Reds signed him before 2010 I believe.
He didn’t pitch until 2011, and he was alright. He had around a 3 ERA, looked a little shaky on the mound and had control problems at times. Other times he made the batter look silly. He should stabilize a little bit more this year being another year removed.
I agree with your assessment. However, don’t be fooled by the sparkling ERA. FIP and xFIP had his ERA a lot closer to 5 than it was to 3. The guy was pretty lucky last season.
I think he is a decent 6th/7th inning guy at this stage. Unless he makes some dramatic improvements I don’t think anyone should be expecting him to be a rock solid bullpen arm.
i respectfully disagree with u. He may have been shaky and had control issues at times last yr but they say it takes usually a full yr of pitchin to get back to normal after tommy john. prior to his surgery he was (if not the best) one of the best set up men in baseball
last yr was his 1st yr back from tommy john, maybe thats y u havent heard abotu him! u make it sound like he was gone for 5 seasons
It wasn’t arm problems that got him released. Character issues – and big ones at that.
That’s not to say that he can’t come back and be solid. However, Angel management got tired of his act and when he got injured it was an easy decision to let him go.
probably bc u know nothin bout baseball. and maybe bc he had tommy john and missed a yr. Why are u hatin so much? what team do u root for?
Your rotation is still average at best, and your offense is poor overall. And Chapman as a starter? Please man. He isn’t reliable for 1 inning, much less 6 or 7.
7th best offense last year
much improved rotation and bullpen.
so much for your opinion
7th in the NL, or 7th in the Majors?
Still, top to bottom, not a solid lineup. Phillips, Votto, and Bruce are obviously good hitters. No one else in the lineup scares anyone.
Votto is a top 3 hitter in baseball..
and regardless of what you think, the stats suggest that the reds offense is just fine. Their pitching was near the bottom last year, but they’ve added a lot of nice pieces.
Jose Bautista, Albert Pujols, Prince Fielder, Ryan Braun,… He might be top 5. So you have one really good hitter, one good hitter, and one above average hitter.
In the last 2 years
Votto is second in WAR( bautista 1st) and 3rd in wOBA (1.cabrera 2. bautista)
I know he is a very good hitter. That’s not really my argument here. It’s that you guys are not good top to bottom.
I seriously wonder why some people post even. I mean some of the comments I see on this page are just so bad and poorly thought out.. Reds Offense is really good. We could have half the starters with over 20 home runs. and a few with over 30. Batting Average wise yeah they might not be the greatest. But this team can score lots of runs.
With this signing I honestly can say the Reds are my favorite to win the division at least again.
The Cardinals have potential 20-30 homerun guys almost top to bottom, and they all hit for average. And their pitching staff is better.
Holliday, Beltran, and Berkman… who else is a potential 20-30 HR threat?
Dave Duncan. PLOT TWIST!
Craig and Freese
Freese would need to stay healthy, which he has a hard time doing. Craig is only a 20-30 HR threat if he’s playing center field or is filling in for an injured Holliday/Berkman, meaning you need to subtract another 20-30 HR hitter. So… 3 maybe, with 1 possible-but-doubtful. Not exactly close to 8.
The Cardinals have a great offense, that doesn’t mean the Reds have a below average one. Votto, Bruce, Phillips, Hanigan are all top 10 hitters at their position, Stubbs is one year removed from a 6 war season Francisco and Heisey could easily be above average at 3B/LF
Votto 30 HR Power, .300 avg
Bruce 30 HR power, 280’s avg.
Phillips 20 HR power .280 avg.
Heisey 18 homers last year in 279 at bats… Thats quite a bit of power potential there. prolly a .260 hitter.
Mesoraco 20 home run power.
Cozart will hit for average with a few homers here and there.
Stubbs 20 home run power, 40 steal guy.
WHEN HEALTHY Scott Rolen could hit around 20. But he won’t.
Now that is a solid lineup up there ^^^
Agreed. That division is going to be really interesting this year. Right now my money’s on the Reds, but that could change again (I say again because maybe a month ago I’d have bet on the Brewers and a week ago it was the Cardinals), though getting Oswalt could put the Cardinals back on top to me.
Now watch the Cubs hold on to Garza, sign Fielder and trade for Tim Lincecum or something and make things even more interesting.
Never, in all my years coming here, have I seen a thread so riddled with stubborn insistence on clinging to incorrect statements made by guys too lazy to have checked their facts before posting to begin with.
Seriously, you were wrong, either admit it and move on or just tuck your tail and run off and hope no one noticed. Continuing to argue a point you’ve already been shown to have not bothered researching just makes your mistakes even more noticeable.
just bc u dont know who is in our lineup doesnt mean they are not good, it means u dont know who is our lineup
Poor offense? I hate the Reds but they had the seventh best offense and they did it with no DH.
um terrible offense? for most of the yr last yr they led national lg in runs scored and led the lg in runs scored in 2010, so where did u get ur info? jonny cueto led the major leagues in era b4 he missed the last month and half of season. latos was 3rd in cy young voting in 2010, not sure what u said made sense. ooooooohhhhh! i get it, ur from pittsburg, my apologies. and can u name another team who can put a guy with chapmans stuff number 4 or 5 in their rotation? yea ur thinkin about it, thats my point. pretty sure 27 other teams wld love to worry bout how a guy is going to respond who throws 103mph fastball with a 87mph changeup and a 93 mph slider
who do u root for?
Wait, so first they were “far from contract negotiations,” and then, BAM, they’re signing him now? WTH
Walt likes to toy with the media like that. He only lets them know what he wants them to know.
Guys, I think the Reds might be “all-in.”
I think that has been officaial for almost a month. But sure, this just reinforces it.
This is all-in?
Can you please stop posting your hurting my brain.
Sorry if I’m annoying you, but this can’t possibly be all in, right?
What is your deal? I think the poster was saying this move along with the several others before this (Latos, Marshall) is sign the Reds are all in. Use that moosh in your head. You must root for the Cards.
Marshall and Madson? Those are going to be some nasty M&Ms for opposing hitters.
M&M&M when Nick Masset is doing good. I mean, Masset has been their set up guy for the past few years and is great when he good, but is really bad when he is bad.
Man, it’s a good thing the Pirates signed….ehhh….ummmm….never mind.
I liked their Bedard signing.
Next up, Kerry Wood to Phils?
Phils don’t really need him, unless he takes a discount to play for a contender.
Quick Phone a Friend!!!
The answer is Cubs!
Cubs dont need him though and he’d probably prefer to play in games that actually matter.
If that was true, he wouldn’t have taken an insanely below market value deal to play for them last year. He probably could’ve gotten more than triple what they offered for him from any number of contenders (The Sox and Yankees alone both expressed interest).
Solid signing for the Reds. Gives them the best back end combo in the division and one of the best in baseball.
Better than K-Rod/Axford? rofl
marshall > Krod
Equally good at least.
Did you even bother to look at their stats?
*The combined 2011 ERA of Marshall and Madson is basically the same as K-Rod and Axford. M&M had a K/9 of 9.3 (against 10.2), BB/9 of 2.2 (against 3.15), and much better FIP and xFIP.
*And they had a 4.5 fWAR (in fewer innings) against a 3.3 fWAR if you give a damn about WAR.
Marshall’s better than K-Rod. Madson/Axford is a toss up.
Better than Kimbrel/Venters? Pah-lease.
Motte will have more saves than Madson in 2012. Fact. Even as a Cards fan though, this one goes to the Brewers.
No wonder your posts are so messed up.. Your in shock still from losing Albert… Its ok mate.. you can’t win every year..
I do think the Cardinals ares still a very good team but no way are they the favorites anymore.
Why would I care if Albert left? Our offense will be as good this year, assuming health, and way cheaper for the next decade.
Funniest post of the day. Sure – losing Pujols is no biggie. You signed Carlos Beltran. That should even things out.
Not that funny of a post if you actually look at the 2012 Cards lineup. Albert didn’t have much better of a year than Beltran in 2011. And it isn’t Beltran replacing Pujols. It is Beltran & Allen Craig replacing Pujols & Jon Jay. If Freese is healthy all year the 2012 Cards are easily better than in 2011.
I’m sorry, but no. You don’t lose Albert Pujols and then say “our offense will be as good this year” unless you’ve figured out how to bring Ted Williams back from the dead and convinced him to play for the Cards.
there is more to factor in than just losing pujols, we also got rid of theriot, and freese and holliday missed some time and rasmus was terrible! if holliday and freese stay healthy, plus having furcal for a full season as well as beltran i think the offense will be at least evened out if not better. what flaws do you have in that logic?
To be fair, if you brought Ted Williams back from the dead, he’d be 93 years old.
That would make him a Giant, more likely.
Reds are going to be very happy with Madson. He’s been elite for 4 years running.
Very good, but not elite.
I’ll take very good after seeing Cordero give me and the rest of Cincinnati panic attacks every save opportunity.
I would too. But it doesn’t quite make him elite. He had an elite year, but he isn’t an elite closer yet. If he has a couple of more years like that, then we could call him elite. Good signing by the Reds.
But Madson has shown tendencies of having a slightly higher ERA on the road than at home, so according to your previously established logic, doesn’t that make him a product of Citizens Bank Park?
I literally just fell out of my chair laughing at your post.. Thank you for that.
We get rid of the Brewers and now the Reds are right there with us… Sigh… Can’t the Cardinals just have one season where we’re the clear-cut favorites? Sure to be an interesting season.
I’ll take a WS win over being the clear-cut favorites any day of the year. Want to make a trade? You can be the favorites, but we win the World Series? If you need to contact me my agent is Scott Boras, which means I’m going to win in the end, no matter how much leverage you think you have.
Well I didn’t realize being the favorites meant you couldn’t win the World Series… and maybe a little too soon to be talking playoffs, not to mention the World Series. The Reds need to: A. Beat a very good Cardinals team
B. Make the playoffs
C. Win a game in the playoffs
Then you can mention the World Series.
I know sarcasm is hard tell over the internet, but really?
Sorry… it’s been a long day.
Reds went 9-6 against the cards last year did they not?
Only a cards or Yanks fan could complain after the ridiculous string of luck that resulted in your championship. Then whine that a team in your division made themselves better in a totally reasonable way. Try playing in the AL East with the 2 top salaried teams both of whom are top 5 front offices and another team that is THE BEST front office, though they have a significant payroll disadvantage. That’s something to whine about, not that so medium payroll decently run teams make a couple of decent moves in their off-seasons to become legit contenders.
Not trying to complain… Would you be happy if your rivals got better? I doubt it. And the WS was great, but it’s over. I’m focusing on 2012 and a repeat.
Well, it depends if you are a fan of the game or a fan of just one team. While I am a Reds fan, I LOVE BASEBALL and love to see every team loaded with talent…I also like the unpredictable upsets when a “less talented” team OWNS one they have no business being in the same ballpark with.
It wasn’t as lucky as people think. A couple months into the season, we had the best record in the MLB. Then we had a string of injuries, things started looking bad. Then we made a major trade and got healthy, so things turned around for us.
right, but the fact that atlanta pretty much collapsed at the same time that the cardinals were surging is pretty lucky.
“We get rid of the Brewers”
Cardinals fan drunk on the Internet again.
The Cardinals are still the clear cut favorites. Better offense. Better rotation. Fairly equal bullpen (I would say we’re better, but I’d be being biased I think.).
You think ROFL….. Hell the Brewers have a better bullpen than you do and the Reds bullpen could be the best in the NL if we are lucky.
Better Offense. How many of your players project to hit 20 home runs or hit over 80 RBI.. What a joke..
I will give you starting pitching just because of your pitchers track records.
Oh and you forgot an important part of baseball DEFENSE.
Reds Win Easy on that .
“How many of your players project to hit 20 home runs or hit over 80 RBI”
ohhhh homeruns and RBI’s…..the two most important stats in baseball, right? Then you call him a joke? lol
I expect Berkman, Holliday, Beltran each to hit 20+ HR with 80+ RBI. Craig & Freese will be borderline. Molina will be solid, but will probably come up short on both. So 3-5.
cause obviously all those 20 homers and 80 rbi guys helped you alot last year, didnt the reds as a team lead the nl in strikeouts for batters, also an important stat!
Just as I suspected.
Can’t wait to see how the NL Central turns out.
im loving the competition, its gonna be a fun year
The Reds are 14th overall this year? So the Phillies would get a supplemental rounder and a 2nd rounder, right?
I think that’s correct
I’m still not completely up to speed with the new draft rules, that’s how I understand it but the original article’s throwing me off a little bit.
This year there are special rules and they will change again next off-season. I’ve heard that only the first 10 picks are protected from the ‘comp pick’ getting slotted in, but others still say its the first 15.
Congrats to the Red, but damn I wanted him to sign with the Rays.
I for one am SHOCKED that Jon Heyman got the scoop on a Boras client signing
Congrats to Reds. Maddog is a great closer and even a better guy. He is a clubhouse guy who keeps everyone loose. I met him a couple times and was very friendly and engaging in conversation! Congrats Ryan, we will miss you in Philly.
Also, do we really get the 14th pick? That’s pretty sweet.
EFFF YEAH! hahahahah
Odds to me, that Boras got the better deal than the team…70%?? Did Madson capitulate? I want those numbers lol
For the record — Heyman now works for CBSSports. Not important for all of us, but I’m sure very important to him that it’s noted correctly.
cards2ws…..you get zero sympathy from me. Seriously, your team just won the WS and you are complaining about being a “favorite”. HA!
Cards are due for some bad karma anyway after the magic carpet ride last season.
Well….Albert did leave…soooo
I’m sorry for upsetting you and, apparently, all of America. Didn’t realize that it would have such a big back lash. I don’t want sympathy and I wasn’t complaining. I simply want the Cardinals to make the playoffs again. All I was saying is we’ve always been counted against, and even though we won the WS last season, it got old hearing how we were huge under dogs and the Brewers were soooo much better, etc. Truly not a big deal. A little thing such as wanting to be projected to win the division, had much too fierce retaliation. I really don’t understand all the hate towards my comment. If your team won the WS would you just roll over and be content with everything? I doubt it.
Brian J Malenke
Wow I wonder how much he got and more importantly…who were the Reds competing against…themselves?!?
the defending world series champs
I believe he means in regards to signing Madson.
my bad, i read it wrong
The Reds have made all the right moves this off season to be in the hunt next year, now as always it’s up to the players to meet that goal.
Prince leaving and the Brewer’s cheating LFer sitting out 50 games sure helps their chances.
JIM BOWDEN @JimBowdenESPNxm
Reds source….Ryan Madson deal is a one – year deal
Wow, 1 year deal for Madson? I am absolutely shocked and that’s one hell of a steal for the Reds.
smart move by Boras. Market just isnt there for a big multi-year deal so he’ll have Madson re-enter next year when there are far fewer closers and he has an extra year of closing experience on his resume.
Heyman is reporting its a one year deal. Wow, really? Phillies screwed themselves on this one.
Why is that? he would have never signed with the Phils for 1 year.
Nah, I think it’s Cordero who loses here.
Unless, he’s (Cordero) is off to the O’s.
He closed for Showalter in Texas.
nahhhhh.Jim Johnson is closing in B-more……
Phillies made out like bandits here…Signed the guy they wanted in Paps, and got two draft picks…I do not see how that can possibly be seen as screwed over
Had they waited like two weeks, they probably wouldn’t have lost a draft pick for Papelbon. Also there’s the fact that they drastically overpaid for him.
The did lose one draft pick though when they didn’t have too…
The terms of the contract really don’t bother me though, mainly since it’s not my money. I just care about who fills out the roster.
1 year deal? Sounds great for the Reds.
Well thats dissapointing. I was hoping at least 2 years. Oh well.
I am not sure how Jocketty did it, but he did! I guess Heyman was right.
Jocketty built an interesting bullpen for 2012. We’ll see if it works.
PS I think a lot a players are going to start signing now. Hopefully, the player signs for a team that he wants to play for and the contract, meaning dollar value, is secondary.
I’m hearing it’s a 1 yr deal, seems really good for the Reds.
Great move by the Reds. They’re doing a good job of taking advantage of the sudden power shift in NL Central. This could very well be the year they take the division.
Just like two years ago!
Reds are now a strong third in the NL Central over the Pirates. Congrats!
Reds are now a strong third in the NL Central over the Pirates
U blow?? ublow z?? hmm i guess your just ignorant. Should be a good, close, 3 team battle in the central between the brewers, cards, and oh my …the Reds. Look it up it’s in all the papers…. lol. u better go(or is it blow?) big Z is waiting for u in Miami ……. lol
Marshall, Madson, Latos…quite the offseason for the Reds thus far
Prince is the official loser of the off season now.
Prince will still get a nice contract somewhere. You can’t declare an “official loser” without seeing the dollar amount and years for all the players.
Absolutely love this signing. You’re bringing in a guy for a respectable dollar amount who has the capability and experience to nail down wins in a pennant race. That is something this team will need with all the close games they had last year. Factor in Latos, who will obviously do better seeing as he’s now on a top 5 offensive team in the NL, and Marshall and our pitching is stacked. Give A-Chapman a spot in the top 3 of the rotation and we’re set as far as rotation. All we need offensively is a LF who can platoon, I think Ryan Ludwick would be great in GABP. He tore it up offensively in STL batting behind Albert, and he could only do better in our park.
This confirms that the worst signing of the off season was Papelbon.
1 year at 8.5 million dollar deal.
great deal for the reds.
this is a perfect deal for the reds……they are going for it now and who can blame em’……kick em all when they are down…..it’s either the reds or cards that win the division
You have to wonder how dumb Amaro feels right about now.
Short term you have to like this for the reds. However, you also hope it does not limit their flexibility for future moves, if needed. It should also worry fans that they have ignored the problems with their offense. Votto was pitched around all season, and became frustrated and at times. Stubbs, Mesoraco, Heisey, Cozart are all unproven. Bruce has been extremely streaky, and Rolen can not be counted on for more than 80 games of healthy baseball. Logic can say that Bruce will take another step forward, but stubbs has shown no growth, in fact he has shown regression. Cozart showed great promise and heisey was highly impactful when he played, while he still struck out at an alarming rate. The offense was streaky, 8 runs one night 1 the next.
It seems the front office has, perhaps, over compensated for the weakness in pitching last season. Wood, Arroyo, Bailey all had poor seasons, and can not be as bad as they were last season. Leake was actually good after his return from the minors. Cueto, Latos, Leake, Chapman, Arroyo. Bailey is off to the pen unless chapman can not hack it.
THey need a RH bat to slide in behind Votto to seperate Bruce and take pressure away from him. Rolen is not that guy, but Baker will put him there so that he shows no disrespect. The money given to madson would likely have been better spent on Carlos Beltran. Heisey would have given him plenty of breaks to rest his knees and get him to (theoretically)the postseason healthy.
While the pitching moves ill certainly make them very tough, the offense still has holes and question marks that are not answered, and likely will not be until mid june or early july.
Mesoraco will have a BIG impact on our offense and lineup.. He will hit 4th to separate the two LH’s, he will have a “Buster Posey” type of impact. Heisey deserves a shot at LF, period! If we sign another OF, it changes the whole roster. We have 2 open spots on the bench, Frazier and Janish are the guys. Frazier has versatility to play anywhere, especially LF where he and Heisey can be more than servicable and Janish is needed for a true back up SS. If we sign Ludwick, then Frazier is in AAA and we still have Janish. Walt is done making moves. Our 40 man roster stands at 39. So we have 1 open spot and it will be a bargain bin signing, prob a low risk/high reward OF.
Those are big expectations for a kid with 50 at bats, and bad ones at that. Mes is a great prospect that has proven nothing in the bigs. Frazier is a good pick as a utility player and injury fill in. Janish is needed for nothing, he was average with the glove and horrific with the bat. In his 4 yrs with the reds he has done nothing but prove he does not belong on big league roster, nice guy but not a big league player. Heisey does deserve a shot, but the point being made is that if the reds are going for it, then take a shot and improve all areas of the team. While the pitching was, the offense was not.
I would argue the best signing they could make would be Omar Vizquel. He can still pick it, at least as well as Janish, and provide enormous value to Zack Cozart and a young line up. Look at the roster, there is no leader other than Cairo and Rolen. Votto is a great player, but no one has ever called him a leader.
As a Reds fan, i would feel much more comfortable with a much more consistent lineup. Look at the Phillies as an example. Great pitching, but the offense sputters in the playoffs because they have 3 hitters that carry the entire lineup and are pitched around during important situations.
I was ready to come in here and talk about what a poor signing this was but it looks really nice for Cincy actually. Madson doesn’t have an idea GB% for the Great American Smallpark but Citizens really isn’t that far off. Chances are he’ll adapt well and stay healthy.
Not ready to call Cincy favorites by any means but they’ve put together a solid team.
I am surprised his GB rate isn’t higher than it is. I’ve watched some of his highlights on MLBTV and noticed he has really good downward movement on his fastball. But you are right, Reds & Phills parks are not that much different.
I don’t see how this is a great deal for Madson. He’ll be 32 next time around the Free Agent carousel and just as people worried about giving him a long term deal this year, they’ll be even more wary next year.
Maybe it’s the best he could get but if the thought process was to try to cash in next year, that’s a bit of a gamble. Teams are usually a bit leery of giving long term deals to pitchers on the wrong side of 30 generally not to mention if he doesn’t have a blowaway year, he’s going back on the market with teams tossing him rebound year bargain offers.
GREAT signing and deal for the Reds. Nice to see them active.
Awesome! Post of the Day! Thanks everyone here in the office thinks I am crazy laughing out loud.
im gonna be ao pissed if a few hours later it said this is a lie like yesterday
Problem with iphone app. It posts the same comments like 30 times in a row. Just fyi
its terrible, i wish they would update it with a fix but they only “update” once a year
1 year $10 mil?
I’m sure the Phillies wish they waited.
Haha the Phillies have no intention of waiting and they proved that by signing Papelbon so quickly after the season. The phillies don’t let Boras negotiate the deals like he does with most other teams. I’m sure the Phillies gave him an offer and Boras trying to seek more leverage on the market. So Phillies moved on, Papelbon will do us just fine.
I never said the Phillies and Papelbon wouldn’t do fine. And now I see it get updated to $8.5 mil which is even less
A contract of $8.5 mil for 1 year for Madson > $13-$15 mil a year for 4 years for Papelbon
They didn’t want to lose an opportunity to sign the best pitcher on the market. They overpaid but there was no way, if they were still in the market, Ryan Madson and Scott Boras would be willing to sign for one year.
The only reason he did sign was because the Phillies, Rangers, and Red Sox signed/traded for the guys they wanted.
RiverAveBlues has the Mets getting the pick in front of the Marlins in the 2nd round. Why would the Phils get the pick in front of the Reds in the 1st round when the pick is also protected?
RiverAveBlues is mistaken. The initial story reflected that, but the MLB clarified a few days later that the Mets would, in fact, get a first rounder for Reyes.
No, the Marlin’s pick was protected, so the Mets get a second rounder and the sandwich pick for the Reyes signing. Since the Reds pick is also protected, the Phillies will get a pick before the Reds in the 2nd round along with the sandwich pick for Madson.
The Reds don’t get a 1st round pick for Madson…
“To all questioning Madson comp picks, I confirmed w/MLB that Phillies get a sandwich pick and a pick before Reds 2nd-rder.” – Jim Callis on Twitter
Good signing and I’m glad the Reds do not have to surrender any draft picks. With Cordero now not coming back, that will give us another pick in the sandwich round
Phillies* is what I meant
This is a steal for the Reds! They can’t go wrong
8.5 M AWESOME signing for the Reds, great job Walt. Latos, Marshall and Madson. Best offseason in MLB. Our bullpen is going to be dominate, we just shortened the game 2 innings.
It’s 10 million guaranteed because of the buyout, but still a great deal for them.
No, it’s $6MM guaranteed and a $2.5MM buyout next year.
Jocketty drank Boras’s milkshake.
Good luck Madson, we still love you here in Philly
Bet you didn’t see that coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just have to say Jocketty… Nice work man. 6 million in 2012!!!! geez I think Cordero was asking for more than that. and even at 11 million next year I think the Reds either pick that up on their side.. Here is hoping Madson likes it here and will play for Cincy in 13′. Probably Votto’s last season with the Reds.
In a dream we get to keep everyone. But that is probably not reality. I like how this team is shaping up and I think Ludwick will improve quite a bit. It’s not like he is old or anything.