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Braves, Cardinals Trade Jason Heyward For Shelby Miller

By Mark Polishuk and Steve Adams | November 17, 2014 at 11:11am CDT

The Cardinals have acquired right fielder Jason Heyward and right-hander Jordan Walden from the Braves in exchange for righty Shelby Miller and pitching prospect Tyrell Jenkins, the teams announced.

Jason Heyward

A blockbuster in every sense of the word, the Cardinals will acquire one of the game’s most valuable outfielders in Heyward and an excellent setup man in Walden. Heyward just turned 25 in August yet already has five full Major League seasons under his belt. His offensive game hasn’t developed to the superstar level that many had expected, though he still owns a lifetime .262/.351/.429 batting line. His .269/.335/.479 batting line and 27 homers in 2012 give an idea of the power upside that Heyward brings to the table, however.

Where Heyward truly shines, however, is with the glove, as evidenced by career UZR and DRS marks of +74.1 and +97, respectively (UZR/150 pegs him at +17.6). That excellent glove paired with a solid bat has led Heyward to be valued at 4.3 fWAR and 4.9 rWAR per season throughout his career. There’s little doubt that Heyward is an MVP-caliber talent, although to realize that potential he would likely need to return to his 2012 form at the plate while maintaining his stellar defensive work.

Heyward is only under control for one more season and will earn $7.8MM in 2015, but Walden is a bit more of a long-term asset for the Cardinals, as he can be controlled through the 2016 season. Projected to earn $3MM in 2015, the 27-year-old Walden posted a 2.88 ERA with 11.2 K/9, 4.9 BB/9 and a 45.2 percent ground-ball rate for the Braves last season. Armed with a fastball that averages roughly 96 mph, he should give manager Mike Matheny yet another hard-throwing option to pair with the likes of Trevor Rosenthal at the end of the St. Louis bullpen.

In Miller, the Braves have acquired at least four years of control over a high-upside arm that looked to be on the verge of stardom for much of 2013 before a rough finish to the season and a step backwards in 2014. Miller frequented top prospect lists for his entire minor league career after being selected 19th overall in 2009, with Baseball America ranking him as highly as sixth in the game heading into the 2013 campaign. That season, he posted a brilliant 3.06 ERA with 8.8 K/9, 3.0 BB/9 and a 38.4 percent ground-ball rate in 173 1/3 innings. He saw his strikeouts dip late in the season though and was curiously a non-factor in the 2013 playoffs, leading many to speculate that he was either injured or simply out of gas after posting a career-high in innings pitched.

Miller maintained his velocity in 2014, but he displayed some signs of control issues that caused his ERA to jump to 3.74 (while FIP and SIERA pegged him at 4.54 and 4.60, respectively). For one, Miller’s BB/9 rate jumped to 3.6. But looking beyond that, his first-pitch strike rate dropped about two percent, and his opponent contact rate for pitches in the strike zone jumped from 85.6 percent to 90 percent, suggesting that he struggled to command the ball within the zone. Nonetheless, Miller’s upside is sky-high, and the Braves had a clear need in the rotation with both Ervin Santana and Aaron Harang hitting the free agent market. Both Kris Medlen and Brandon Beachy are recovering from their second Tommy John surgery, leaving Atlanta with Julio Teheran, Mike Minor and Alex Wood as rotation candidates, perhaps along with swingman David Hale.

Jenkins, 22, isn’t simply a throw-in for the Braves, either. The Cards drafted Jenkins 50th overall in 2010, and the right-hander cracked BA’s Top 100 prospect list following the 2011 season — ranking 94th. Touted for his off-the-charts athleticism, Jenkins has seen his prospect star dim a bit since that time due to shoulder surgery, though he did return midway through 2014 and post a 3.28 ERA in 74 innings in the Class-A Advanced Florida State League. BA ranked him 17th among Cardinals prospects heading into 2014, noting that his fastball sits 93-96 mph when healthy and adding that he features an improved curveball as well.

The trade fills a need for both clubs, although the circumstances in which St. Louis came to have a need for a right fielder are of course tragic. It’s been difficult and felt inappropriate at times to look at the tragic death of Oscar Taveras and his girlfriend through a baseball lens, but many have wondered if is untimely loss would lead the Cardinals to look outside the organization for outfield help. MLBTR’s Charlie Wilmoth noted in his Offseason Outlook for the Cards that such measures could be necessary, and the path that the team has taken will improve the team in 2015, even if the trade is unfortunately linked to tragedy.

Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.

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Atlanta Braves Newsstand St. Louis Cardinals Transactions Jason Heyward Jordan Walden Shelby Miller

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720 Comments

  1. tom 26

    11 years ago

    idk what the braves are thinking here.

    Reply
    • Ted

      11 years ago

      I like it as a Braves fan. Heyward was good — he’s not as bad as his hater might say — but I don’t think he was long in Atlanta anyway, and his bat just hasn’t come around like we hoped. Getting a young controllable starter is a better return than I expected.

      Reply
      • WoofBark

        11 years ago

        heyward is the best rfer in baseball. atl has lost its mind if thats all they got.

        Reply
        • Anthony CARATURO

          11 years ago

          Best rf in baseball? Come on

          Reply
          • WoofBark

            11 years ago

            5.1 war last season, 6.3 two years before. gold gloves, fielding bible award, his bat still has upside, and hes only 25. yea, the case can definitely be made.

            Reply
            • rundmc1981

              11 years ago

              We need pitching and offense and we don’t have many valuable assets. JHey, when he signed his 2-year deal to avoid arbitration, was essentially given a 2-year period to prove himself worthy of Freeman-like money, because ATL has in the backend. We WANTED him to have it, but he needed to earn it, and by his offense, he hasn’t. This lineup hasn’t found a spot for him, mostly because Fredi lacks consistency and creativity, but when you factor that in, JHey’s output wasn’t worth what is presumed asking price will be. He’s just not. By getting a young pitcher with a massive upside and another in a similar circumstance that is unproven at the MLB level, we’ve filled a need.

              Reply
            • Chippers_Knees

              11 years ago

              WAR is an overrated statistic.

              Reply
              • ehero55

                11 years ago

                Agreed. Heyward’s defense is fantastic though. Saving runs is just as important as creating them.

                Reply
              • 6th Floor Management

                11 years ago

                No, WAR is a cumulative stat so it cant be overrated, its the UZR/defensive metric portion of WAR that you have beef with.

                Reply
              • flickadave

                11 years ago

                Yeah. We should just use wins for pitchers and RBI for hitters. Those are much better.

                Reply
              • xcal1br

                11 years ago

                Exactly. WAR is the MOST overrated statistic in recent history.

                Reply
              • SeanE

                11 years ago

                Yes it is.

                Reply
            • 6th Floor Management

              11 years ago

              1 year of Heyward vs 4 years of Miller. Many teams do this with guys in walk-years.

              Reply
            • Frank J.

              11 years ago

              Stanton, Braun…now the case has been made… I would take kemp in 2015 over Heyward. Best rf in baseball…haha. Smh. Get outta here with that.

              Reply
            • Frank J.

              11 years ago

              Also teams don’t trade away the best players in the game for Shelby miller. They sign or extend them. Stanton 325 million. Haha

              Reply
          • Avi Lerner

            11 years ago

            It’s hard to name a better defensive RF. Stanton could be in the argument for overall but not much else.

            Reply
            • Jonathan Knipfing

              11 years ago

              Argument?! Get outta here. Stanton is 40x better than Heyward.

              Reply
              • Edgar4evar

                11 years ago

                Not with the glove. Including defense (based on Fangraphs) Stanton was worth one more win above replacement overall. He’s better, but not even twice as good let alone “40x.”

                Reply
                • Out in Left Field

                  11 years ago

                  Are you seriously going to try to say that any defensive metric is even close to accurate? After next year you will have some actual defensive measures that are accurate, but UZR and DRS are not even in the ballpark until you get above 450 games played. Even the guys that developed both metrics will tell you that.

                  Reply
                  • WoofBark

                    11 years ago

                    he was not using a defensive metric. war is not the same, plus he’s talking about 5 years worth of data.

                    Reply
                • oh Hal

                  11 years ago

                  The Fangraphs measure of defense is of unknown value. I’d say little, but its an emotional – and tedious – subject.

                  Reply
              • WoofBark

                11 years ago

                home runs are great, but heyward is the better overall player. atl’s pitching is going to take a hit by missing out on those 32 drs. heyward pretty consistently eliminates xbh better than anyone. shelby miller every 5th day isnt going to make up for that.

                Reply
                • Rafael Bustamante

                  11 years ago

                  And is it today trade/free-agent-signing/waivers/TRANSACTIONS deadline? They could still make significant moves, considering that Justin Upton is in his final contract year.

                  Reply
                  • WoofBark

                    11 years ago

                    so?

                    Reply
                    • Rafael Bustamante

                      11 years ago

                      So, the fact that it appears that Atlanta’s offense has decreased today is irrelevant because there still are 4-5 months to boost the offense for the future. This trade conditions next transactions.

                      Reply
                      • WoofBark

                        11 years ago

                        …so that makes i ok to make bad trades?

                        Reply
                        • Rafael Bustamante

                          11 years ago

                          4 years of Miller plus 6 years of Jenkins for 1 year of Heyward and 2 years of Walden doesn’t seem bad for me. Teheran, Minor, Wood, Miller seems like a pretty solid group of starters to me. And they are all very young.

                          Reply
                          • WoofBark

                            11 years ago

                            sure, but 4 yrs of a #3 isn’t really all that special.

                            Reply
                            • Rafael Bustamante

                              11 years ago

                              Why is he a #3 starter for you? 3.33 ERA, 7.6 K/9, 26 W, 3.3 BB/9 in 69 career starts before turning 24 is pretty special. David Price before turning 24 seemed like a 5th starter guy according to the same standards (4.42 ERA).

                              Reply
                              • WoofBark

                                11 years ago

                                That’s actually not all that impressive these days. It’s definitely above average, but it’s not exactly hard to find a pitcher that can put up those numbers anymore. Hard to justify giving up a 5-6 WAR RFer for that.

                                I wouldn’t say I’m shocked they traded him, just at how little they got back for someone that’s been among the most productive players since he came on the scene. There are only 12 players at ANY position that have been more productive than Heyward has since 2010.

                                Reply
                                • Rafael Bustamante

                                  11 years ago

                                  Most productive players? Defensively yes, but ofensively I would totally call him below average.

                                  Reply
                                  • WoofBark

                                    11 years ago

                                    I’m talking about WAR, which measure contributions on both sides of the ball. So, in terms of playing the game of baseball, there just aren’t very players that are better than Jason Heyward.

                                    Reply
                                    • Rafael Bustamante

                                      11 years ago

                                      Yes, but like in Heyward’s case, his WAR is inflated by his top of the league defense. That is why a player with a great offense and average defense (Trout) or a player with great defense and average offense (Heyward) will always have higher WAR than a slightly above average in both categories. WAR is pretty inaccurate and over-appreciated in my opinion.

                                      Reply
                                      • WoofBark

                                        11 years ago

                                        and you can’t pretend defense isn’t part of baseball. we’re talking about more than just rbi’s and dingers. all contributions on the field count towards the outcome of the game.

                                        Reply
                                        • oh Hal

                                          11 years ago

                                          I’d guess that he’s saying the measure of defense is variable and unknown.

                                          Reply
                                          • WoofBark

                                            11 years ago

                                            ah, but its not. imperfect, yes, but relevant over very large sample sizes. we also can’t pretend that defense is what makes up the bulk of WAR, because it isn’t. it’s a component, but if you’re looking at combined WAR over 5 years, its significant, and worth placing heavy weight on.

                                            Reply
                                            • oh Hal

                                              11 years ago

                                              Its accuracy over large sample sizes is completely unknown.

                                              Reply
                                              • WoofBark

                                                11 years ago

                                                not true.

                                                Reply
                                        • Rafael Bustamante

                                          11 years ago

                                          I’m not pretending it is not part of baseball (where did you get that from?) i’m just saying that great defense or offense inflates WAR unfairly. Nevertheless this conversation is useless because Atlanta didn’t have a choice; Heyward was going to test free agency and with very high demands.

                                          Reply
                                        • Abishai Aziz Al-Doory

                                          11 years ago

                                          You don’t seem to taking into account how expensive “average” starting pitching is. Mediocre SP’s get 8-12 mil per year on the open market. 4 years of Miller at pre-FA price is pretty valuable, especially when you compare that to A) only one year of Heyward and B) Heyward is going to get $200 million as a FA, which we definitely cannot afford.

                                          Reply
                                          • WoofBark

                                            11 years ago

                                            actually, i really was just hoping they wouldve gotten a position prospect. atl practically grows pitchers on trees it seems, but they never seem to have many bats in the system. they dont like to spend money to keep players most of the time, so it wouldve been nice to see a bat coming over.

                                            honestly, more than anything im just tired of being let down in pretty much every way possible by this team. i dont blame heyward for wanting to test the waters, but man watching players leave and watching the team fail to meet expectations is really getting old.

                                            Reply
                                            • Abishai Aziz Al-Doory

                                              11 years ago

                                              I totally agree with your 2nd paragraph, it is disappointing that we even have to be constrained into moves like this. I agree that he’s underrated as a player in general, and that his defense matters a lot. A run saved is a run saved, doesn’t matter if it’s in RF or not. (I was hoping they’d just play him in center every day, since he was OK there).

                                              We should be playing him everyday then trying to re-sign him in the offseason, and we might even be doing so were it not for the BJ Upton signing. At least we got rid of the man responsible for that deal.

                                              That said Jon Hart (and most pundits I’ve seen), say that the Braves are strong in the lower minors, but rate poorly in the upper minors P-wise. As terrible as our hitting was last year, we need pitching too.

                                              Reply
                                              • WoofBark

                                                11 years ago

                                                I do agree that we need some pitching pretty badly.

                                                Reply
                            • Lucas Gomez

                              11 years ago

                              You mean a pitcher who is only a year removed from a top three finish for rookie of the year? or a few years removed from being one of the top 30 prospects in baseball where almost ever ranking had him classified as a potential front of the rotation starter?

                              Reply
                              • WoofBark

                                11 years ago

                                yea, those prospect rankings only mean so much, though, and arms like miller aren’t uncommon anymore. heyward is.

                                miller’s not a bad player, though. just wish they couldve gotten more.

                                Reply
                            • SeanE

                              11 years ago

                              He is a number 1 if his command reforms.

                              Reply
                        • rundmc1981

                          11 years ago

                          Bad trade? Let’s be objective here. Will ATL be able to re-sign him? No. So will they contend in 2015? Very unlikely with him. So if it’s presumed that his value drops every game played, we would have needed to get another pitcher we won’t with Miller, and have almost $8MM to reallocate, what’s the problem? Sorry your Heyward jersey is worth nothing, but the team is bigger than any one player, and this benefits the team both now and going forward.

                          Reply
                          • WoofBark

                            11 years ago

                            dont have a heyward jersey and the team is actually what i’m worried about, not the player for the players sake.

                            Reply
                • Out in Left Field

                  11 years ago

                  He is a RF. Its the area of the field the LEAST balls go to. Really, how much is that defense worth? Not enough to make up the difference between his offense and Stanton’s offense. or Bautista’s offense. Or Pence’s offense. Or Puig’s overall game. Sorry. Its not a question about who any GM in the game would want in their OF.

                  Reply
                  • WoofBark

                    11 years ago

                    thats not how defensive runs saved works

                    Reply
                  • Edgar4evar

                    11 years ago

                    I’d love to hear your basis for believing that defense in right field has so little value. The last time I looked right fielders field about as many balls as left fielders. And since they have to make the long throw to third base, their arm strength is more critical. Also there is plenty of evidence to suggest that defense is a critical part of understanding a player’s value, even in corner positions. A run is a run whether you prevent it or score it.

                    Reply
                  • stymeedone

                    11 years ago

                    Sign Torii Hunter to play RF and you will see how much defense is worth!

                    Reply
                • Frank J.

                  11 years ago

                  That just goes to show you how weak of a player Heyward is. He was traded for freaking Shelby miller! If Heyward was all that guess what, he would be in ATL still since most teams don’t trade away the top players in the game for a Shelby miller

                  Reply
            • BeenThereDoneIt

              11 years ago

              Um, There is that guy in Toronto too…

              Reply
            • Ray Ray

              11 years ago

              I’d say Lorenzo Cain is better if he is going to move to RF full time this season.

              Reply
            • Frank J.

              11 years ago

              Bautista? Werth? Pence?

              Reply
            • Frank J.

              11 years ago

              Cruz? Martinez? Calhoun?

              Reply
            • Frank J.

              11 years ago

              Sorry I just read “defensive”. Heyward has a solid glove, but as a overall right fielder? Not even top 10.

              Reply
        • Roger Wilco

          11 years ago

          What is this crazy talk about valuing defense over offense in the corner OF spots? If that were the case, the Cardinals would have just started Borjous in CF and Jay in RF.

          Reply
          • WoofBark

            11 years ago

            not sure if serious

            Reply
            • Draven Moss

              11 years ago

              He’s right. Defense isn’t needed in the corners like it is in center. Heyward is a good player with upside but, several years of Shelby Miller is better than one year of Heyward. Miller has a lot of upside too.

              Reply
              • WoofBark

                11 years ago

                As I responded below, Joey Bats is the only RFer who has accumulated more value than Heyward since ’10.

                Reply
                • Draven Moss

                  11 years ago

                  Yes however, most of it has comes on defence. A Corner OFer who provides excellent hitting skills is better than a glove wizard at that position. A teams needs offence too, as well as pitching. Your prime defensive positions are CF, SS, and C. Everybody else should hit at an above average rate. Not saying Heyward doesn’t, but his value isn’t as high as Bautista’s, or Adam Jones, etc. Like I said, getting a cost-controlled pitcher with great upside, along with another pitching prospect is a good return for a glove wizard, average hitting Heyward, and a erratic middle reliever.

                  Reply
                  • WoofBark

                    11 years ago

                    They’re getting Jordan Walden, not a middle reliever… and none of that changes the fact that Heyward is an impact player that got shipped off for a mid-rotation starter.

                    Reply
            • Roger Wilco

              11 years ago

              Quite serious. Corner spots (RF, LF, 1B, 3B) are places where you can sacrifice speed and defense for offense. I don’t think it’s a bad trade per say but the notion that the Cardinals “clearly won” this trade is quite overblown. I very much doubt the Cardinals acquired him for his defensive ability.

              Reply
              • WoofBark

                11 years ago

                Jose Bautista is the only Rfer that has been more valuable than Heyward since his rookie season in 2010… and Bautista is now 34.

                Reply
                • Melvin Mendoza, Jr.

                  11 years ago

                  Valuable in terms of WAR and those neurotic defensive metrics that assume baseball is played in cyberspace. The fact is Heyward is a slightly above average hitter at best who gets his WAR inflated for catching pop flies. The guy was a .730 OPS hitter last year and in terms of his WAR and the history of the award vs WAR, he should have been a legitimate MVP contender, which is absurd to think about.

                  Reply
                  • WoofBark

                    11 years ago

                    You don’t have a very good grasp of WAR. I’m not trying to be rude, but that’s not how it works. There are some good places that show you the internal workings of the stat. It’s not flawless, but over large sample sizes, it’s one of the single most useful stats you can use.

                    Reply
                    • Melvin Mendoza, Jr.

                      11 years ago

                      I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. What I don’t have a very good grasp of is people who take WAR as the end all be all to player value and when anyone challenges it, they just accuse them of not understanding.

                      Reply
                      • Andy B

                        11 years ago

                        Absolutely, WAR is one of the best stats for evaluating a players performance, but it’s not the only stat. Like all stats there are flaws, otherwise Alex Gordon would be asking for 400 million this off season based upon where he compares to Stanton in WAR

                        Reply
                      • WoofBark

                        11 years ago

                        never meant to hurt anyone’s feelings, but if someone is going to talk to me about the stat, and they don’t understand what they’re talking about, im not going to lie to them. there’s no point in that. it wouldn’t help anyone.

                        Reply
                        • Melvin Mendoza, Jr.

                          11 years ago

                          Thanks for proving what I said to be true.

                          Reply
                          • WoofBark

                            11 years ago

                            glad i could make you feel better. sorry you got so upset.

                            Reply
                    • oh Hal

                      11 years ago

                      If its incorporating inaccuracies or flaws as you say, then a larger sample size likely won’t lead to increased accuracy.

                      Reply
        • ryanl

          11 years ago

          Stanton is the best Hitting RF in the majors. JHey is the standard for defense in RF, considering RF is where you place your team-worst defender in the NL, typically. Not always of course.

          Reply
          • WoofBark

            11 years ago

            LF is where you typically put your worst defensive outfielder…

            Reply
            • $3513744

              11 years ago

              DH

              Reply
              • WoofBark

                11 years ago

                wrong league

                Reply
                • $3513744

                  11 years ago

                  for now

                  Reply
                  • skywalkr2

                    11 years ago

                    I support tar and feathering for anyone suggesting DH in the NL.

                    Reply
                    • WoofBark

                      11 years ago

                      here here!

                      Reply
                    • oh Hal

                      11 years ago

                      Gird your loins man, or I guess warm up the tar bucket and pluck the birds because its coming.

                      Reply
                      • Curt Green

                        11 years ago

                        I agree. The NL is the ONLY place where the pitcher bats. On EVERY level, there is a DH. Time to change NL!

                        Reply
                        • skywalkr2

                          11 years ago

                          And the NL is the only baseball worth watching. Time to change the AL.

                          1
                          Reply
                          • Curt Green

                            11 years ago

                            I understand. It is hard to change. But progress marches on. The DH has extended many careers and is not going away. It is only a matter of time.

                            Reply
            • ryanl

              11 years ago

              I disagree, only due to the majority of batters being right-handed.

              Reply
              • WoofBark

                11 years ago

                that is not the case, though. google mlb spray charts and filter for all hitters.

                Reply
        • Ricky Lake

          11 years ago

          Hunter Pence, Stanton…..??!?!?

          Reply
          • WoofBark

            11 years ago

            Nope. Stanton is very, very close, though.

            Reply
        • Out in Left Field

          11 years ago

          Except for a guy named Stanton and a guy named Puig and a guy named Jose Bautista I would say you might be right. Also have to include a couple of other guys like Werth and Pence. Hey, number 5 or 6 is nothing to sneeze at. Defensively he is the best RF, but that is like saying you are the best backup QB. Most starting CF would be about the best RF in the league. Certainly not the best RF overall.

          Reply
          • WoofBark

            11 years ago

            nope. bats is the only one, actually. stanton and pence are close behind.

            Reply
          • Edgar4evar

            11 years ago

            Offensively, which includes baserunning, Fangraphs has Heyward rated ninth among qualifying right fielders. So even if the defensive metrics aren’t 100% accurate that’s his floor in terms of ranking. Overall he’s rated fourth based on including UZR defense along with offense. Splitting the difference he’s sixth or seventh. He’s likely to be worth quite a bit more than Miller who pitched like a replacement player last year, but there is the time of team control which is way in the Braves’ favor. If they can fix him they can win the trade. I would still take the Cards’ end on this deal.

            Reply
        • 49thGiantWarrior

          11 years ago

          nah, Hunter Pence is the best RFer in baseball

          Reply
          • WoofBark

            11 years ago

            he has more rings, at least he can say that.

            Reply
        • SeanE

          11 years ago

          Thats overstretching it.

          Reply
    • Christopher Soto

      11 years ago

      Agreed….I’m not sure what the Braves gain from this trade. Miller struggled most of the 2014 season before turning it on in his final 5 September starts. As for Jenkins, Yes, he was a former Top 100 prospect, but his K/9 rate as a starter has plummeted into the low 5’s during his time in Advanced A ball. There must be some serious concerns that Kris Medlen and Brandon Beachy may not be 100% when they get back from their respective surgeries. The move will give the Braves a young 2015 rotation of Teheran, Minor, Miller, Beachy, and Medlen.

      As for the Cardinals….I love the deal for them. The Cardinals organization is stocked with young talented arms that can easily replace Miller (i.e. Carlos Martinez). Heyward is one of the best defensive OF’ers in baseball with a solid bat capable of adding 5+ wins per season. Also Walden is no traditional throw in, he’s been one of the toughest right handed relievers in baseball over the past two seasons holding opponents to a .186 batting average.

      Reply
      • atlbats

        11 years ago

        Any starter coming off 2 TJ’s is a major concern as it is rare to have any have the same relative success they did prior to the 2nd. Lots of 1 TJ’s come back, not very many have come back from 2 so pitching was a definite need. 4 years of Miller for a guy that was walking after this year is a better return than a compensation pick and seeing us miss the playoffs again this year.

        Reply
        • Out in Left Field

          11 years ago

          Nearly 40 pitchers with 2 TJ have come back, most have been relievers to start with. Only 2 have come back to be starters.

          Reply
      • Klesko

        11 years ago

        Keep in mind Heyward is one year away from FA and he wants 150+ million.

        Reply
        • Draven Moss

          11 years ago

          Exactly. Having a constant controlled, young arm with upside for a few, cost controlled years is better than one year of Heyward. If anything, they can now try to extend Upton, and go after a cheap OFer.

          Reply
        • skywalkr2

          11 years ago

          The Cardinals have money and Holliday will be off the payroll soon. So this is good timing for them.

          Reply
          • Lanidrac

            11 years ago

            I don’t think the Cardinals have much interest in extending Heyward. Holliday is still under contract for two more years plus an option year that has a good chance at being picked up at this point. Heyward is more of a stopgap until either Grichuk or Piscotty is ready to take over RF [or Grichuk takes over CF if Jay walks (pun not intended) after the 2016 season].

            Reply
            • smurfmonkey

              11 years ago

              Thats a lot of faith to put into those two guys….and I’m not buying it. That was a lot to give up just for a stop gap. They Cards will extend him.

              Reply
      • Jeff McCoy

        11 years ago

        You forgot our best pitcher last year, Alex Wood.

        Reply
        • Christopher Soto

          11 years ago

          your right….missed him….That makes the move even more puzzling though…..You already had 5 young controllable arms to compete with the Mets and the Nationals younger staffs. But now your team hitting is even weaker than the weak line-up the Mets were rolling out in September games.

          Reply
          • tesseract

            11 years ago

            Your weak Mets went 15-10 (.600 WP) in September

            Reply
          • Jeff McCoy

            11 years ago

            You can’t rely on Medlen or Beachy coming off their SECOND Tommy John, so we absolutely needed another SP or two, but trading Heyward out of the possible 3 (including Gattis and J. Upton) that would have netted a good MLB ready SP was the least desirable outcome, IMO.

            Reply
      • rundmc1981

        11 years ago

        Serious concerns….it’s their 2nd TJ surgery!

        Reply
      • Out in Left Field

        11 years ago

        If 3.74 ERA is struggling for a 23 year old starter with a power arm, then sign me up for 5 of them.

        Reply
        • skywalkr2

          11 years ago

          We love Shelby, but he has been inconsistent. Same as how the Braves have been unhappy with Heyward not achieving full offensive potential.

          Reply
          • stymeedone

            11 years ago

            He’s 23. He’s not been in the league long enough to be considered inconsistent. Watched the same complaints about Rick Porcello in Detroit. Now he’s 26 and he’s looking polished. Most 23 yr olds are still in the minors.

            Reply
        • Christopher Soto

          11 years ago

          Miller got bailed out a bunch of times…..A 4.54 xFIP is not very good.

          A 6.5 K.9 rate vs a 3.6 BB/9 rate too

          Reply
          • Lanidrac

            11 years ago

            Expect those ratios to improve now that he’s figured out his curveball. Besides, FIP and xFIP have a major inherent flaw anyway, as they fail to account for ground ball and line drive rates.

            Reply
      • Lanidrac

        11 years ago

        You fail to notice why Miller turned it on in late August and September, which was mainly due to an increased use of a much improved curveball. You’re getting a very good young pitcher here. I think this deal could be very good for both sides.

        Reply
    • Matt Tobin

      11 years ago

      The Braves should just completely blow it up now. With Heyward, you were good enough to contend. You aren’t without him. They might as well sell Justin Upton off as well.

      Reply
      • $3513744

        11 years ago

        they’ve been trying to

        Reply
    • TimotheusATL

      11 years ago

      It’s not difficult. The Braves’ aspirations of contention in 2014 were a mirage, and they’re working with an eye on 2017 in the post-Wren era. Miller comes with at least 4 years control, whereas there was zero chance of Heyward re-signing after 2015. It’s a value extraction in a year that’s likely a partial rebuild.

      Reply
    • sunshipballoons

      11 years ago

      Not too hard to understand. Unless he’s awful this year, Hayward is going to get a huge ton of money this offseason. The Braves don’t have that money and won’t until they move into their new stadium. In exchange, they get two controllable SPs who could really help them rebuild their rotation.

      Reply
    • Derrick 3

      11 years ago

      I totally agree with you Tom. I can’t stop shaking my head over this deal. Now don’t get me wrong, Shelby Miller is good but u gotta press the issue to at least try to deal b. J Upton off unless he’s already been dealt off which last I heard he hadn’t

      Reply
    • SeanE

      11 years ago

      Shelby Miller has outstanding stuff. If he sorts out his control this is a nice deal for Atlanta. I’m not going to pretend giving up Heyward won’t be tough, but this will fix the rotation.

      Miller
      Medlen
      Wood
      Teheran
      Beachy

      so much potential there.

      That is nasty if everyone returns to form.

      Reply
  2. Encarnacion's Parrot

    11 years ago

    Huge.

    Reply
  3. kdot

    11 years ago

    WOW. Big trade. Really like this trade for the Cardinals given their pitching depth, ability to develop young pitchers, and the unfortunate loss of Oscar Tavares.

    Reply
    • Jim Johnson

      11 years ago

      Do they have pitching depth? Seems like they made a lot of moves for starters at the break this year.

      Reply
      • GoCards11

        11 years ago

        It does seem the depth has diminished. Marco Gonzalez and Carlos Martinez are now really important pices as well as someone like Tyler Lyons who will be needed to spot start.

        Reply
        • kdot

          11 years ago

          It’s still strong, they can always make a few minor signings as well. I am of the opinion that they should try Carlos Martinez as a starter sooner than later.

          Reply
          • GoCards11

            11 years ago

            I think this pretty much guarantees that will happen this year

            Reply
            • Lanidrac

              11 years ago

              Well, unless he’s beaten out by Marco Gonzalez. It’ll be a fun battle to watch in Spring Training.

              Reply
      • Andy B

        11 years ago

        Still plenty of depth, Miller and Gonzalez are ready to start right now. Cooney probably could as well. Down the line a few years got some more good prospects coming up in Kaminsky and Reyes.

        Reply
      • Nursaltan Tulyakbay

        11 years ago

        Cards are going to be in the market for a starter now, probably targeting a tier II guy like Liriano or Santana.

        Reply
        • Andy B

          11 years ago

          I doubt it, cards have Jaime Garcia, Carlos Martinez and Marco Gonzalez all as potential 5th starters.

          Reply
          • smurfmonkey

            11 years ago

            Garcia cannot and should not be seen as a reliable option. The guy is more than likely finished. His arm has went the way of Mark Mulder.

            Reply
            • Andy B

              11 years ago

              he’s not he’s 1 of 3 options for the 5th starter

              Reply
              • skywalkr2

                11 years ago

                And really there are more than 3 options for 5th starter.

                Reply
              • smurfmonkey

                11 years ago

                What I am saying is that Garcia isn’t even reliable to be an option at this point. Don’t even anticipate him being ready or healthy for ST.

                Reply
            • Lucas Gomez

              11 years ago

              There best option is to run him out there if he is healthy and if he is let him pitch to gain some value and trade him to open up a spot for Martinez. That’s really their best option with Garcia. Too much money to just have him be a spot starter if he’s healthy

              Reply
              • smurfmonkey

                11 years ago

                I see him being Mulder part deux. His arm is going to fall off at this point and he wont stay healthy.

                Reply
        • stymeedone

          11 years ago

          Cards will be in the market for a right fielder next year, too.

          Reply
          • Lanidrac

            11 years ago

            Grichuk and Piscotty say otherwise. There’s a reason they went with a one year stopgap.

            Reply
            • smurfmonkey

              11 years ago

              Thats a lot to give up for just a stop gap. They Cards will intend to extend Heyward, otherwise this was a bad trade for the Cards because Grichuk will never be more than a 4th OFer. Piscotty can hit for average, but this isn’t the 1980 Cards, we need power and Piscotty will never have power.

              Reply
      • skywalkr2

        11 years ago

        Depends on pitches coming back from injury (Wacha)

        Reply
  4. Danny Phillips

    11 years ago

    Awesome day! Cards get the better end I think.

    Reply
    • Marc

      11 years ago

      If Heyward resigns.

      Reply
      • skywalkr2

        11 years ago

        I have to assume he will re-sign. St Louis is a good place to play, and apparently Mike Matheny is a player’s manager.

        Reply
        • stymeedone

          11 years ago

          Heyward is a Boras client. He will go thru Free Agency.

          Reply
  5. vtadave

    11 years ago

    Hot Stove is smoking right now. Wow.

    Reply
  6. Andrew 29

    11 years ago

    should braves like this trade?

    Reply
    • tom 26

      11 years ago

      no, a starting outfielder and a top bullpen guy for a starter

      Reply
      • MB923

        11 years ago

        Probably a mid rotation starter at best. Cards win this trade easily.

        Reply
      • Rafael Bustamante

        11 years ago

        A starting OF with only one year left in his contract and zero chances of extension before htiting FA. He also was reported to be asking for a “4th batter” price when he isn’t one. Atlanta got 4 years of Shelby Miller and 6 years of MLB’s 94 prospect in 2012 and 2013. Also, Jenkins had a solid 2014 in A+.

        Reply
        • tsarstruck

          11 years ago

          You’re also losing the QO comp pick, which probably make Jenkins at best a wash.

          Reply
          • Rafael Bustamante

            11 years ago

            Miller (3 years more after next season) and Jenkins (five years more after next season) > QO comp pick.

            Reply
        • pitnick

          11 years ago

          What does “4th batter” price mean?

          Reply
          • Rafael Bustamante

            11 years ago

            It means that Heyward was asking (according to David O’Brien or Mark Bowman, i don’t remember) for “4th batter money”, like he was a proven power hitter and Braves see him like a 1st batter with average power. They had different visions of his role and potential.

            Reply
        • Christopher Soto

          11 years ago

          Would have rather had the QO pick then Jenkins…..guys K/9 rate has dipped all the way down to 5.0 in Advanced A. Probably has something to do with the shoulder surgery he just came back from.

          Premium pitching prospects should at least be in the 9.0+ range at that level.

          Reply
          • Rafael Bustamante

            11 years ago

            You would rather have a QO comp pick than Jenkins AND Miller? P.S: John Smoltz k/9 before being traded to Atlanta was 4.4 and 6.0

            Reply
            • Christopher Soto

              11 years ago

              No….I said I would rather have the QO then Jenkins. Smoltz is the outlier….not the rule.

              Miller is a good strong arm to have but pitching was not the Braves weakness in 2014, making contact with the baseball was. The club already had 5 young controllable arms in their rotation for 2015. If anything I would have traded Heyward for hitting prospects.

              The Braves had the 5th worst average in baseball, the 5th worst K rate, and scored the 2nd fewest runs in baseball. Plus there’s no guarantee that they will be able to sign Upton to a contract extension either.

              Reply
              • Rafael Bustamante

                11 years ago

                But Atlanta got Miller too instead of the QO, not just Jenkins. Remember Miller is under team control until the end of 2018 season. I agree that Atlanta must boost his offense but remember this trade is just the first, my guess is that they will continue to rebuild the team and specially their offense.

                Reply
          • LayerCake

            11 years ago

            Well you kind of made a case for Jenkins. As you stated he just came back from shoulder surgery. Give him a full year and then we can talk about where his K/9 should be.

            Reply
    • Andy B

      11 years ago

      If I were you I would, I really feel like Miller turned the corner at the end of the year. Miller was inconsistent for most of the year but he was finally living up to his potential. If it makes you feel better as a Cards fan I feel we gave up too much.

      Reply
      • Andrew 29

        11 years ago

        i do like miller what about jenkins?

        Reply
        • Andy B

          11 years ago

          it keeps not approving my comments. There is a good writeup on Jenkins the other day at stltoday. Jenkins is another guy who has turned the corner. He has number 2 starter potential, drafted in 2010 but has taken forever, he’s finally putting it together. I’d expect him to be in AA this year.

          Reply
        • Cards Fan

          11 years ago

          Jenkins about 93-96…probly the best curveball in the cardinals system. Potential No.1 starter. If somebody can fix Miller he could shut down any team

          Reply
        • Mark D. 23.

          11 years ago

          Jenkins was slowed by injuries but is finally healthy and had a really good Arizona Fall League showing…was getting a lot of press here in StL as a result. As a Cards fan…not too big on this deal. IF they somehow extend Heyward it could still end up big on the Braves side if Jenkins hits potential. Always a hard thing to judge until you can use hindsight. 🙂

          Reply
          • atlbats

            11 years ago

            Agree… As a Braves fan and a Cardinal fan (my wife and location have made them my 2nd team), this is a win-win. Braves needed a young, controllable starter with #2 potential to go with Teheran (#1 potential) and Minor (#2-3 potential). Long time to tell if it will be a win for the Braves regarding Jenkins but this fills an immediate need for STL in right plus the lefty bat. Those that are just casual fans will think it is a steal for the Cardinals as it gives them immediate help versus the long-term help it provides the Braves.

            Reply
    • WoofBark

      11 years ago

      not even close.

      Reply
  7. YankeeFan™

    11 years ago

    This is a robbery

    Reply
  8. Eric D.

    11 years ago

    Highway robbery

    Reply
  9. Rafael Bustamante

    11 years ago

    Given Heyward’s absurd asking price for an extension when he hits free agency and Atlanta’s re-building plans in 2015 and probably 2016, this seems as a good deal. I thought they would receive more, though.

    Reply
    • Christopher A. Otto

      11 years ago

      And if you thought Heyward’s asking price was absurd, Upton is going to be in a position to ask for $200M+ …. Not sure what Braves do about OF moving forward.

      Reply
      • Rafael Bustamante

        11 years ago

        That is the difference! Upton IS in the position to ask for that money; Heyward is not. I prefer 7 years of Justin Upton with a 20MM$ salary than 7 years of Heyward with a 18 MM$ salary. My guess is that he will get traded too or he will get extended but i’m pretty confident that he won’t start 2015 in Atlanta with only one year left on his contract.

        Reply
        • Andy B

          11 years ago

          I could see the cards comfortably giving heyward 7 at 18 if that’s what he costs.

          Reply
        • treday

          11 years ago

          I’m the first person to question WAR, but Heyward has accumulated more WAR in 5 years than Justin Upton has in 8 years. Why do you feel Upton is so much better than Heyward?

          Reply
          • Rafael Bustamante

            11 years ago

            Because in my opinion Justin Upton is more constant. He is very streaky, i know, but Heyward gets injured a lot and has not reached his potential. He is totally umpredictable, which can be seen with his different stats in each year. One year it looks like he is a 3rd hitter, another year he looks like a 1st hitter. I wanted the Braves to deal Heyward first because it was reported that he wasn’t going to sign an extension before being a FA and his asking price was really high. Even with his great defense, he is not worth that much money.

            Reply
            • Christopher A. Otto

              11 years ago

              Perhaps Upton’s year-end numbers are more constant. But he can have a streaky way of getting there. His May and especially June slump really torpedoed the Atlanta season.

              Reply
              • Rafael Bustamante

                11 years ago

                I agree! And I would add September too. If they can get a good return from him then great! But between Heyward and Upton i prefer to give an extension to Upton. P.S: Heyward had slumps too in April (205 AVG), June (250) and September (239). He seemed to be streaky as Upton, too.

                Reply
  10. dieharddodgerfan

    11 years ago

    Very good trade for St. Louis, given the tragic death of Tavares. I could see Heyward being very good in St. Louis.

    Reply
  11. Danny Phillips

    11 years ago

    Young offense is more valuable than pitching atm and Miller is good, but not great. Don’t like this move for ATL. Their fans won’t be happy. Walden is also no slouch.

    Reply
    • atlbats

      11 years ago

      Young offense that would have been gone next year either way. 4 years of a quality pitcher is a long-term improvement.

      Reply
      • Danny Phillips

        11 years ago

        Forgot Heyward only had a year left on his deal not 2 when I posted this, still not too fond of the deal. Unless, it signals a large Braves rebuild.

        Reply
        • Rafael Bustamante

          11 years ago

          Why large? I think they accepted Miller so they could contend in 2015. This trade has two purposes: short term (Miller) and long term (Jenkins)

          Reply
          • Danny Phillips

            11 years ago

            Maybe not ‘large’. At this point they know they don’t have the offense to compete in 2015. They made a poor 2014 offense even worse.

            Braves pitching was great last year.

            Reply
            • Rafael Bustamante

              11 years ago

              I agree, but the offseason lasts 4 more months.

              Reply
    • CT

      11 years ago

      If you’re looking for offense, Heyward isn’t your guy. He’s been very underwhelming the last two years for a guy with his skills and athleticism.

      Reply
  12. stl_cards16

    11 years ago

    I like this trade. But I really hope the Cardinals can extend Heyward.

    Reply
    • MoCrash

      11 years ago

      I like this trade if Heyward can at least stabilize the slide in his OPS the last two years. His glove alone isn’t worth it; Grichuk would be good enough defensively in RF. Whether Heyward is affordable for 2016 is going to be based on his offensive production, not a GG.

      Reply
    • Lanidrac

      11 years ago

      Why? He probably isn’t worth what he’ll be asking, and we’ve got Grichuk and Piscotty ready to take over. Part of what I like about this deal is that it’s only a stopgap that doesn’t block the kids for too long.

      Reply
  13. Muhamed Mashkulli

    11 years ago

    And let the offseason begin!!

    Reply
  14. JacobyWanKenobi

    11 years ago

    Woah, today’s moves are blowing my mind. Braves probably could’ve gotten more, but this is HUGE for the Cards.

    Reply
  15. Brandon Mason

    11 years ago

    WOW I didn’t see this coming.

    Reply
  16. Eric D.

    11 years ago

    Heyward is one of the most underrated players in the MLB and the Cards got him PLUS an elite reliever in exchange for a fringe prospect and a number 5 starter

    Reply
    • Jimmy Willy

      11 years ago

      Miller might end up being a frontline starter. And his production is equivalent to that of a #3 right now.

      Reply
      • Eric D.

        11 years ago

        You never trade a starting 5 WAR outfielder for a number 3 starter. that is just bad business.

        Reply
        • Jimmy Willy

          11 years ago

          The Braves are banking on Miller developing overtime. Not as outrageous as you think.

          Reply
          • stl_cards16

            11 years ago

            Miller regressed quite a bit in 2014. Hopefully the Braves get 2013 Miller or it’s not even close.

            Reply
            • jury_rigger

              11 years ago

              Look at his second half stats

              Reply
        • vtadave

          11 years ago

          I guess you do if that OF is one year from free agency and you can re-sign your other very good OF that is in the same contract position. Bottom line: they need an Upton extension or this is a disaster.

          Reply
        • CT

          11 years ago

          You do when most of his WAR value is defensive, and he’s under contract for only one more year.

          Reply
          • $3513744

            11 years ago

            yeah, but besides that. you NEVER do. besides that of course.

            Reply
      • Mariners Blue-Ninety Six

        11 years ago

        Miller has never reached 200 innings, at best he’s a #4 back end starter.

        Reply
        • vtadave

          11 years ago

          To be fair, he’s only pitched two full seasons in the big leagues. Lots of guys (Felix is one) hit their 200 in year three.

          Reply
          • WoofBark

            11 years ago

            that is true. typically, in a pitcher’s development, the ability to consistently go deep into games is one of the last things they get under control.

            Reply
    • jury_rigger

      11 years ago

      Number 5 starter? Seriously? Look again.

      Reply
      • Andy B

        11 years ago

        well he was our number 5 starter, but he has the potential to be a number 2. As a cardinals fan I personally feel we gave up too much. It’s not as bad as you braves fans are making it out to be.

        Reply
        • MB923

          11 years ago

          You didn’t give up too much. You gave up too little. Miller’s career WAR is 2.9, last year it was 0.2 in a season where he threw the most amount of innings (183).

          At best a #3 pitcher.

          Reply
          • Andy B

            11 years ago

            you make the mistaken assumption that he’s only as good as he was last year. He’s a guy on the way up. The key with Miller is look how he was pitching at the end of the year. Miller really turned a corner. This was a very good move for the Braves.

            Reply
            • MB923

              11 years ago

              As I said, they could have gotten more elsewhere. I mentioned this elsewhere, but maybe the Mariners would have given up Walker for Heyward.

              Reply
              • Andy B

                11 years ago

                You braves fans have really over valued Heyward. You’re crazy to think the Ms would have given up Walker for 1 year of Heyward. And if they really could have gotten that deal, don’t you think John Hart would have made that trade?

                Reply
                • MB923

                  11 years ago

                  I’m a Braves fan? That’s news to me.

                  “And if they really could have gotten that deal, don’t you think John Hart would have made that trade?”

                  Who is to say he even talked to the M’s? Everyone was saying the Rays could have gotten much more for Price than they did, and it’s true. You also apparently don’t know how weak the Mariners are in the OF. I’m sorry but to give up talent, you have to get talent. Walker is unproven, Heyward is not.

                  I’m not saying it’s a move the M’s would say Yes to but I think they’d consider it.

                  Reply
                  • Andy B

                    11 years ago

                    ok well assumed you were by thinking the braves could get Walker for Heyward.

                    Reply
    • oh Hal

      11 years ago

      Underrated how and by whom?

      Reply
  17. Avi Lerner

    11 years ago

    That can’t be the entire package going to Atlanta. If it is there is no way Atlanta wins this deal unless Jenkins turns into an ace.

    Reply
    • Andrew 29

      11 years ago

      there has to be more

      Reply
    • ChiefIlliniwek

      11 years ago

      Granted, small sample size, and young for the league (ish), but I’d have to call Jenkins pretty fringy as a “prospect”. He’s had several years to figure it out and turning 22 this summer in the FSL he struck out 5 guys per 9 in a pitchers’ league.

      He’s got the size and draft lineage in his pocket, so it’s not like he can’t develop. But he’s a shoulder shrug at this point.

      I agree that it doesn’t look like a “win” for Atlanta, but J-Hey was going to command more than the Braves wanted to pay, so I guess I can see what they were thinking. And Miller isn’t chopped liver.

      I’m just very uninspired by the move.

      Reply
    • Lucas Gomez

      11 years ago

      Shelby Miller was baseball america’s number 6 prospect and is only entering his third year. This trade was honestly made on the hope that they can get that top of the rotation potential from Miller. It’s not that bad of a trade considering that the majority of Heyward’s value is his def. and he OPS’d 735 with an OPS+ of 108. Cardinals gave up a potential top of the rotation pitcher for a potential middle of the order bat. Seems like a win-win

      Reply
  18. LayerCake

    11 years ago

    So we have Gosselin at Second and…. that one guy in right? You know who im talking about… That one guy

    Reply
    • R.D.

      11 years ago

      I think tentatively it would be Bethancourt at C, Gattis in LF, and Justin in RF.

      Reply
      • LayerCake

        11 years ago

        That… is not pretty…

        Reply
  19. Luke White

    11 years ago

    Any extension for Heyward? If so then this is a big WIN for STL!

    Reply
  20. YankeeFan™

    11 years ago

    I’m not even a Braves fan but wow Ya could had receive a better package for him.

    Reply
    • FacelessGeneralManager

      11 years ago

      Wouldnt have guessed that “YankeeFan” wasnt a braves fan. Wierd

      Reply
      • Trock

        11 years ago

        I hate defending a Yankee fan, but I think there are a lot of fans (myself included) that like more then just one team. I am a Cubs fan but also follow the Red Sox, Mets, and Rockies closely as well.

        Reply
  21. Jon At.

    11 years ago

    The Cardinals decided they haven’t had a lopsided trade in awhile, and wanted to fix that.

    Braves, what the hell?

    Reply
    • atlbats

      11 years ago

      1 more year of Heyward (they weren’t going to resign him) for 4 years of Miller plus getting $6 million off the books to play around in free agency. It’s not as lopsided as you would think.

      Reply
      • WoofBark

        11 years ago

        mid rotation starters arent hard to come by. atl got hosed.

        Reply
        • ChiefIlliniwek

          11 years ago

          If this was 10 years ago, ATL wins this trade. Hitting is the scarce commodity now. You’re dead right. There are mid-rotation guys available all over the place every year it seems, and if you’re not too picky you can grab one or two and let it shake out. And they don’t cost 5 WAR outfielders.

          On the flipside, ATL definitely wasn’t re-signing him to what he thinks he’s getting paid, so I kinda get that.

          And we all know how that Cardinals uniform magically unlocks players’ potential and turns them into guys who will take a discount to stay.

          Reply
  22. Bradley Maravalli

    11 years ago

    In defense of the Braves, you have to get something out of Heyward before he’s gone. He’s a great player but the Braves weren’t going to sign him, this was the right move.

    Reply
    • WoofBark

      11 years ago

      that’s not really a good reason to settle on a bad trade, though.

      Reply
    • ChiefIlliniwek

      11 years ago

      As much as this is tilted against them, I think I have to agree. How much better are they really going to do than Shelby Miller?

      Reply
  23. Yankeeboy11

    11 years ago

    So basically the Yankees could’ve had Heyward also for Phelps is what I see here

    Reply
    • YankeeFan™

      11 years ago

      Exactly Braves got robbed

      Reply
    • Jimmy Willy

      11 years ago

      Miller>Phelps

      Reply
    • atlbats

      11 years ago

      Phelps isn’t even close to Miller, guy has never pitched more than 113 innings and has had a consistently lower WHIP and a FIP this past year (and a poor year overall for Miller) that is right in line with Phelps. If Miller performs like 2013 for even 2 of the 4 years, this is a win for the Braves regardless of Jenkins.

      Reply
      • MB923

        11 years ago

        For what it’s worth though, Phelps had a 0.7 WAR in 113 innings last year. Miller had a 0.2 WAR in 183 innings. (no typos there, all numbers are accurate), though I’ll say Miller is better still

        Reply
    • MB923

      11 years ago

      Come on, Miller > Phelps for sure.

      Reply
  24. HoopDreams

    11 years ago

    I wanna read a Yankees resign Chase Headley headline! lets go Cash

    Reply
  25. acottonshirt

    11 years ago

    That’s a fantastic deal for the Cards.

    Reply
  26. Matt 40

    11 years ago

    Jason Heyward isn’t that great. .270 AVG with 11 HR 58 RBI/149 Games ’14

    Reply
    • kdot

      11 years ago

      One of the, if the not the best, defensive RF in the game.

      Reply
    • Jon At.

      11 years ago

      And extremely good defensive stats. This was a steal for the Cards. Pretty sure they would take those numbers every year if he provides the same defense.

      Reply
    • acottonshirt

      11 years ago

      He is a 6 WAR player compared to a 1.5 WAR player in miller. This is highway robbery by the cards.

      Reply
      • Ted

        11 years ago

        But the Braves were not likely to afford Heyward long-term. They’re rebuilding and would rather have Miller for several years than Heyward for 2015.

        Reply
        • acottonshirt

          11 years ago

          That’s the redeeming factor of this trade for the Braves. They get years of control and the Cards are ready to win now. Cards may be able to afford to extend Heyward, we’ll see there. Heyward’s bat should actually get a bit better playing in St. Louis compared to Atlanta so his value might go up a bit offensively as well.

          Reply
          • ChiefIlliniwek

            11 years ago

            I think Heyward getting to play with real hitters in STL will magnify his positive offensive traits and minimize the spotty power.

            That Cardinals uniform is magic… Sigh…

            Reply
          • MB923

            11 years ago

            But don’t you think they could have gotten years of control for a better pitcher? A pitcher who had only a 0.2 WAR in 183 innings?

            I honestly think the M’s would have given up Taijun Walker for Heyward, that’s how bad they need offense.

            Reply
            • acottonshirt

              11 years ago

              As an M’s fan, I thought about that – Giving up Walker for Heyward. I wonder if they talked to them about it but Jack Z just doesn’t want to trade Walker for anything (and I can’t blame him, he has the talent to be amazing and is very young). We need offense and have the money – so they say – to get it done in FA rather than trade away young cost controlled talent. I think the idea of having Felix, Walker, Paxton and Iwakuma in the same rotation is really hard to not love.

              Reply
              • MB923

                11 years ago

                Gotta give up talent to get talent. 5+ WAR players are hard to come by. I agree that rotation is hard not to love, but the Mariners OFers as of now on a scale of 1-10 is probably less than a 1. I would definitely trade My team’s #3 pitcher if it’s in need of a desperate upgrade on offense.

                Of course another option is to sign someone on the market but I can’t think of any 5+ WAR OFers as free agents (and I”m probably missing a very easy one)

                Reply
    • burtonlive

      11 years ago

      You must be thinking in terms of not being great in fantasy baseball. Because he’s pretty damn good in real life baseball.

      Reply
    • UK Tiger

      11 years ago

      Yep, RBI numbers are without doubt a great way to evaluate a players production…

      Reply
    • pitnick

      11 years ago

      Those stats ignore everything that makes him a great player — good baserunning, elite defense, very good OBP.

      Reply
  27. Andy B

    11 years ago

    I would have preferred to get upton, but Im ok with this trade

    Reply
    • stl_cards16

      11 years ago

      If they’re not going to extend him, then I can see an argument for Upton> Heyward. If the Cardinals hope to offer an extension, it’s not even close Heyward> Upton.

      Reply
      • Andy B

        11 years ago

        definitely more comfortable giving heyward 7 or 8 years than upton, but I want to see Heyward put up more consistent numbers.

        Reply
    • ChiefIlliniwek

      11 years ago

      I’m glad you’re ok with this theft.

      Reply
      • Andy B

        11 years ago

        I think Braves fans are really over valuing heyward, there are lots of concerns about him. He’s basically a platoon player right now.

        Reply
        • MB923

          11 years ago

          How so? And I think you guys are overvaluing Shelby Miller.

          Reply
          • Andy B

            11 years ago

            he had a 422 ops against left handers last year. Great OBP inconsistent pop. I like this move but I have some concerns about it. Which is why it’s probably a good trade, both sides feeling like they traded to much likely means it’s fair.

            Reply
            • oh Hal

              11 years ago

              Not to diminish your points, but its worth noting that the NL Central has few LH starters.

              Reply
              • Andy B

                11 years ago

                Good point, but with the cards playoffs are pretty much expected. The worry is more for me how will he do in the playoffs when he’s matched up against tough lefty relievers.

                Reply
        • ChiefIlliniwek

          11 years ago

          Are you familiar with Wins Above Replacement?

          Reply
          • Danny Phillips

            11 years ago

            Almost completely from his defense. His offense has stagnated.

            Reply
            • MB923

              11 years ago

              His oWAR and dWAR were both exactly the same last year at 2.8. His wRC+ was 110. Sounds like above average offense to me.

              Reply
          • Andy B

            11 years ago

            Of course I am, but I feel that WAR is a bit skewed when it comes to measuring the defense of corner outfielders. Is Alex Gordon really more valubale than Mike Stanton? WAR is a great stat, but it’s not the end all be all in evaluating players.

            Reply
        • WoofBark

          11 years ago

          He’s a 5-6 war OFer…

          He’s also 25…

          No one with half of a brain is going to platoon someone putting up 5-6 WAR when he hasn’t even hit his prime, yet.

          Reply
          • Andy B

            11 years ago

            no you don’t platoon him, but you are going to feel the urge to pinch hit for him with those splits.

            Reply
  28. MB923

    11 years ago

    Well a lot has escalated in the past 5 minutes.

    Reply
  29. Buddy GO Braves

    11 years ago

    I love that we got shelby Miller he’s going to be great

    Reply
  30. Danny Phillips

    11 years ago

    Terrible for the Braves.

    Reply
  31. troy

    11 years ago

    Max to St Louis!

    Reply
  32. Jonathan P.

    11 years ago

    Man 🙁 i wanted Heyward for my Red Sox

    Reply
    • Bradley Maravalli

      11 years ago

      I would’ve liked him too but we have to many in the OF and so far no one is buying. Wished we could have traded Cespedes for Miller. I’m a bit upset quite honestly that we haven’t done anything beyond signing Koji.

      Reply
    • Jimmy Willy

      11 years ago

      Dude you have about 300 outfielders.

      Reply
  33. Matt 40

    11 years ago

    I wan an OF that can hit and Heyward is medicore ATM.

    Reply
    • tom 26

      11 years ago

      well he has 84 home runs in five years, plus the best arm in right field in baseball, not more u can ask for

      Reply
    • orangeoctober

      11 years ago

      He adds a lot with his defensive value as well

      Reply
  34. tom 26

    11 years ago

    so is this a one time thing or r the braves in a full rebuilding mode?

    Reply
  35. BG921

    11 years ago

    Welcome to the Braves way. My gosh. What an awful day for Braves fans. Awful day.

    Reply
  36. Yograndmothermademeasandwich

    11 years ago

    Heyward is overrated. Equal trade here.

    Reply
    • EarlyMorningBoxscore

      11 years ago

      You might want to look up the word equal. The Cards clearly won this trade.

      Reply
  37. Derpy

    11 years ago

    I am angry and jealous. The Mets should have made this deal for Heyward. They needed a right fielder more than anyone, they had the pitching to give up. Make it happen. Give the Braves Wheeler for Heyward straight up, they can keep Walden.

    Ugh. I don’t even care which pitcher it took, as long as it weren’t Harvey, Matz, or Thor. You can have anyone else for Heyward. 🙁

    Reply
  38. Danny Phillips

    11 years ago

    Jim Bowden – “Braves can now put J Upton in RF and Evan Gattis in LF.”

    Would be a terrible defensive OF.

    Reply
    • MaineBaseball

      11 years ago

      When in reality, both of those guys could be on different teams next season.

      Reply
      • Danny Phillips

        11 years ago

        Exactly, Bowden is hardly all-knowing.

        Reply
    • Gary Cooper

      11 years ago

      This is why you don’t listen to Jim Bowden. Upton will be moved and it is likely Gattis will be too.

      Reply
  39. philly_435

    11 years ago

    I don’t see how this move makes much sense for Atlanta

    Reply
  40. Kyle Kessler

    11 years ago

    we are in full rebuilding mode, hate to say it. this screams everything of a fire sale, sad to see J-Hey go.. but i am honestly lost for words, but heywards extension asking price and th fact he is a FA next year makes this trade possible, even if it is kinda crazy

    Reply
    • Lee Miller

      11 years ago

      As a Braves fan, I have to hope Hart knows what he’s doing… He has a great track record. I think the Braves chose to go with Justin Upton. He’s only a year older and proven to be a better hitter and no inury risk.

      Reply
      • WoofBark

        11 years ago

        terrible defender, though. overall, he’s less productive.

        Reply
  41. sackseph

    11 years ago

    Wonder if the Braves saw Stanton’s deal and panicked

    Reply
    • jury_rigger

      11 years ago

      No

      Reply
    • Lee Miller

      11 years ago

      Heyward getting no where near Stanton money

      Reply
    • Gary Cooper

      11 years ago

      No. Heyward’s people have told the Braves since last year exactly what they wanted and the Braves knew all along they would not be able to extend him.

      Reply
  42. Matthew 3

    11 years ago

    As a Braves fan, the ideal situation would have been for Heyward to sign long-term. He made it clear that he wanted to be a free-agent, not be the hometown hero. The Braves had to get someone who could help the rotation long-term, and I think Miller can be that guy.

    With that said, the Braves should have gotten more from STL. This is a win for the Cardinals, and now I have to listen to this crap from Cardinal fans…(I live in Arkansas, 3 hrs from STL).

    Reply
  43. Jimbo

    11 years ago

    I really really dont like this trade but guess Atlanta will try to keep and extend Justin Upton.

    Reply
    • Jimbo

      11 years ago

      Plus Cardinals will get even stronger. Guess good for them

      Reply
    • Joe Valenti

      11 years ago

      JayHey was probably going to walk via free agency after next year. This was the Braves way of salvaging him. The other option was trading at the deadline for prospects, but that means prolonging contention. Getting a young controllable ML pitcher helps them in the present and the future

      Reply
    • Mariners Blue-Ninety Six

      11 years ago

      IDK, this trade kind of signals the start of the Braves going into rebuild mode. They can’t expect to get elite prospects for Upton if the best they could get for Heyward is a back of the rotation starter.

      Reply
  44. FTNS

    11 years ago

    Welp, there’s little to no reason to watch the Braves this year. Jason was gone after the 2015 season, and would ask for a ridiculously high long-term contract. 200+ million for a 110 wRC+ player with superb defense isn’t worth it, IMO.

    Reply
  45. Matt 40

    11 years ago

    Shelby Miller also won 15 games at 20 y/o. I say this trade is even even though the Cards fans think its highway robbery.

    Reply
    • Andy B

      11 years ago

      As a cards fan I don’t see it that way. I think Miller turned a corner at the end of the season would have much rather given up Martinez.

      Reply
    • JoseAmerica

      11 years ago

      Yeah, I’m a Cards fan and I like it. I think we’ve seen the best of Miller.

      Reply
  46. Joe Valenti

    11 years ago

    I actually like this one. The Braves are getting a young controllable pitcher for a guy that (I’m assuming) they weren’t going to be able to resign. The only other logical thing to do was trade him at a deadline for prospects, but I don’t think Braves fans want a long rebuilding process

    Reply
  47. Michael Gallemore

    11 years ago

    I realized we might be going the rebuild route, but this is just shocking. I thought he might be traded but not this quickly and for pitching…when we obviously need bats. He is an absolute fan favorite. Color me a really sad Braves fan. The harsh reality of this move will take some time to get over. We’re just so used to winning and flopping in the playoffs, and now we don’t get to do either.

    Reply
  48. sportsfan

    11 years ago

    The Braves got robbed, If you are going to make a trade you must sure to get a = value otherwise don’t make the trade.

    Reply
  49. Matt 40

    11 years ago

    Don’t me wrong I like J-Hay. My heart went out to him when he took one in the face but I don’t think he is an amazing outfielder.

    Reply
    • tom 26

      11 years ago

      well sir who would u have preferred?

      Reply
      • Matt 40

        11 years ago

        I was must making a point that I don’t think its a landslide win for the Cards.

        Reply
    • Eric D.

      11 years ago

      He is one of the best outfielders in the games in terms of defense. Only maybe Lagares, Bradley, and Cain are better than him and that’s stretching it.

      Reply
      • Roger Wilco

        11 years ago

        3 CF’s. Defense may win out in CF but not on the corners, which is where Heyward will play.

        Reply
    • Bryan Curley

      11 years ago

      5 WAR player in 2014, 6 WAR player in 2012 — not sure what your definition of “amazing” is but he’s pretty darn good.

      Reply
  50. FTNS

    11 years ago

    Jason is going to ask for far too much $$$. Not worth it for a slightly above average hitter with a great glove.

    Reply
  51. Buddy GO Braves

    11 years ago

    I actually like this trade for the braves.we get two pitchers that could be a top 3 rotation pitcher.we are rebuilding.

    Reply
  52. authenhausen

    11 years ago

    If i turned on force trades in a video game, it would still probably block this trade, Cardinals 100% robbed the Braves.

    Reply
    • Tyler Lease

      11 years ago

      haha so true

      Reply
    • FTNS

      11 years ago

      Jason is overrated, Braves have enough glove only players.

      Reply
      • MB923

        11 years ago

        Shelby Miller is overrated too.

        Reply
        • FTNS

          11 years ago

          Yes, but Shelby isn’t going to ask for 200+ million

          Reply
          • MB923

            11 years ago

            When has Heyward ever asked for $200 million? And if he hasn’t, what makes you think he will? I can see him definitely getting $100 million.

            Reply
            • FTNS

              11 years ago

              You’re crazy if you don’t think a major market team will offer him that much. Not worth it for a 110 wRC+ hitter

              Reply
              • MB923

                11 years ago

                I’m sorry but no team is going to offer Heyward $200+ million. That’s ridiculous. The guy has been an All Star once and has only been on 2 MVP ballots, the highest finishing 28th. A very good player overall but certainly not one of the game’s best. Though I still think this is a great trade for St. Louis.

                Reply
      • stl_cards16

        11 years ago

        Career 117 WRC+ is pretty nice for a glove only player. 21 WAR at 25 years old. Yes please.

        Reply
        • FTNS

          11 years ago

          Not worth 200 million, bro. He also hit around .160 against LH pitching last season.

          Reply
          • stl_cards16

            11 years ago

            We will worry about paying him $200MM if somehow that happens.

            Reply
        • FTNS

          11 years ago

          All that WAR is dWAR, which is highly overrated

          Reply
          • MB923

            11 years ago

            His oWAR and dWAR were identical last year at 2.8

            Reply
        • FTNS

          11 years ago

          Enjoy your one year rental

          Reply
          • stl_cards16

            11 years ago

            It’s possible Miller wouldn’t have been one of the top 5 SP on the team, so that is fine.

            Reply
            • FTNS

              11 years ago

              Yeah, you guys have a deep pitching staff. I’m just happy we got something for Heyward before he inevitably leaves next season. Not like the Braves are going to make any noise in ’15

              Reply
            • Andy B

              11 years ago

              I was just thinking that, Miller is our number 5 starter right now. He has potential, but he’s still our number 5. It’s a fair deal all around.

              Reply
          • skywalkr2

            11 years ago

            Its usually only a one year rental when we decide its a one year rental.

            Reply
          • Lanidrac

            11 years ago

            We will. We’ve got plenty of depth to replace Miller in the rotation and two very good OF prospects to take over for Heyward in 2016.

            Reply
    • jury_rigger

      11 years ago

      Olney says he likes the deal for both sides

      Reply
  53. MaineBaseball

    11 years ago

    Well, didn’t see this one coming.

    Reply
  54. EarlyMorningBoxscore

    11 years ago

    I just wonder why the Braves took this deal. This can’t be the best offer they received for him.

    Reply
  55. sportsfan

    11 years ago

    Can someone please take John Hart. I am sure his son Tom Hart who happened to be the Braves broadcaster can do a much better job when it comes to making a trade.

    Reply
  56. Matt 40

    11 years ago

    Braves rotation looks pretty nice with Miller, Tehran, Wood, Beachy. Its not a bad mobe

    Reply
    • FTNS

      11 years ago

      lol @ Beachy, that man is a lost cause

      Reply
    • tom 26

      11 years ago

      and medlen too, so does that mean its a gattis, upton, upton outfield with behancourt at catcher? heard gattis was in trade rumors too

      Reply
      • FTNS

        11 years ago

        Gattis would be the worst defending outfielder in Baseball.

        Reply
    • Danny Phillips

      11 years ago

      Offense was their problem in 2014 and they just made it much worse.

      Reply
  57. Lefty_Orioles_Fan

    11 years ago

    I am inspired now! I want CarGo from the Rockies!

    Reply
    • Danny Phillips

      11 years ago

      Don’t know why you are still so eager to give up young talent for a Coors product who rarely plays 2/3rds a season.

      Reply
    • stl_cards16

      11 years ago

      Funny we were just talking about these guys. I guess Mozeliak was waiting for my approval. Haha

      Reply
      • Lefty_Orioles_Fan

        11 years ago

        Hahaha, yeah I know.

        Reply
  58. Roger Wilco

    11 years ago

    I’m surprised by Braves fans’ reaction to this. They act like Miller is trash. 24 years old with a 3.33 ERA over two seasons. I actually think it was a lot to give up for a rental and a reliever, especially since Heyward hasn’t shown much power.

    Reply
  59. connfyoozed .

    11 years ago

    So much for a slow Monday at MLB offices, huh?

    Reply
  60. WoofBark

    11 years ago

    wren would have never made this trade.

    Reply
    • LDogg

      11 years ago

      Which instantly means this is a good deal.

      Reply
      • WoofBark

        11 years ago

        Wren actually made some outstanding trades.

        Reply
        • LDogg

          11 years ago

          Which led to all of our playoff series wins.

          Reply
  61. LDogg

    11 years ago

    Cards fans….wait until you have to watch Heyward for a full season. Even his good offensive stats are overblown. Best defensive RF…absolutely. But he has a history of injuries and as Braves fans can attest, is a the PERFECT model of inconsistency. Waaaay too streaky to stay at the top of an order. And he’s going to ask for way too much for an extension. After watching him the past two years, I’m fine with Miller and a prospect. Best of luck to J-Hey, I hope he finally lives up to his potential.

    Reply
    • Matthew Studdard

      11 years ago

      I think his defensive stats are over rated. Yes this year he was good. But years past, well overrated… Loves to dive for all catches…

      Reply
    • Lanidrac

      11 years ago

      His offense is still a lot better than what we suffered through in RF last year, and we’re not looking to extend him anyway with our outfield prospects almost ready to take over. If he’s too streaky to bat at the top of the order, he can bat 7th while Carpenter and Wong continue to bat 1st and 2nd.

      Reply
  62. BeantownGreen

    11 years ago

    Big move for the Cardinals and it looks like a STEAL. Shelby Miller never seemed to fall in favor with the team. Heyward rebounded after a poor start to the season and is projected to keep improving next season according to Steamer

    Reply
  63. Derrick 3

    11 years ago

    Bad choice for braves. And I’m a die hard braves fan.

    Reply
    • renots92

      11 years ago

      Eh. Heyward is a very good defender in RF. Gets on base.

      But he cant hit Left handed pitching. He is a platoon player and defensive sub

      Reply
    • FTNS

      11 years ago

      Would you rather us get NOTHING when Jason inevitably leaves in 2016?

      Reply
      • sportsfan

        11 years ago

        We could have got more for him.

        Reply
    • Jimmy 14

      11 years ago

      Die hard fans usually know the least about what is best for their team.

      Reply
      • Derrick 3

        11 years ago

        Yea I’m sure you are an expert an someone is paying you big bucks for your opinions. Highly doubt it. Common sense shud tell you that heyward is a bigger asset than b.j upton

        Reply
  64. Drazthegr8

    11 years ago

    I like this trade as a Nats fan. Braves are diminished.

    Reply
    • Danny Phillips

      11 years ago

      For 2015, Braves should def be weaker.

      Reply
    • jury_rigger

      11 years ago

      Not like they were gonna compete even with him, they are rebuilding. Enjoy it while it lasts, braves will be back on top in nl east soon enough

      Reply
      • Drazthegr8

        11 years ago

        Glad to hear it. One less team to worry about next year. Looks like Nats, Mets, Marlins competing in the NL East in ’15.

        Reply
        • Danny Phillips

          11 years ago

          Braves will still always throw out a quality staff. Just don’t see where the offense is coming from.

          Reply
          • Drazthegr8

            11 years ago

            I don’t see what quality pitching they’ll have. The whole staff is coming off rehab and Shelby Miller isn’t great.

            Reply
            • Danny Phillips

              11 years ago

              Teheran, Wood, Miller can be a decent young cost-controlled top 3.

              Reply
  65. sportsfan

    11 years ago

    So let see the Braves traded away one of the best RF in the game today they also got include Jordan Walden who outstanding and in return the Braves got a OK pitcher and some A pitcher. The Braves should have never made this kind of a trade.

    Reply
    • Andy B

      11 years ago

      you got 4 years of Miller for one year of Heyward. Miller’s trajectory is on the way up, he really turned the corner at the end of the year. You’re getting a good pitcher. And Jenkins has a lot of potential. It’s not a bad deal.

      Reply
      • sportsfan

        11 years ago

        Hayward just for his defense the Braves should have got Miller and a bat for him.

        Reply
        • Andy B

          11 years ago

          not for 1 year of him.

          Reply
          • sportsfan

            11 years ago

            The Cards have money to sign him to a long-turn deal.

            Reply
            • Andy B

              11 years ago

              yep and if he’s a fit they will. But you can’t get more prospects because of that.

              Reply
  66. Cards Fan

    11 years ago

    Jenkins is a potential No.1 starter. Electic stuff and one of the best curveballs in the minors. Miller has the potential to be very good for the Braves especially given his new start in Atl

    Reply
    • Cards Fan

      11 years ago

      Good trade for the Braves and Cards both ways. Do yall think the braves would make a move to hurt the team??? If any team makes a move its because they think it will be better for the team. Not because theyre fans dont like it.

      Reply
  67. Ryan Ke.

    11 years ago

    I don’t think it is a robbery for anyone. Cards get 1 year of a defensive first, bat challenged right fielder. They will get the most value in 2015 barring injury, but Miller could be steady for many years to come in the Braves rotation. Braves know they can’t sign him to an extension, so get a young controllable player now, it’s not like they are going to set the world on fire with their team next year, led by the underachieving Upton brothers…… This is about 2016 and beyond, not 2015.

    Reply
    • sportsfan

      11 years ago

      The thing is the Braves also gave up Jordan Walden. As a Braves fan this is the kind of a trade you ask why make a trade that you don’t get a good = value in return.

      Reply
      • Ryan Ke.

        11 years ago

        if Miller can produce 1/5-2 War per season over the next 4 years, that should be more valuable than 1 year of Heyward and a few of Walden. You also get a high ceiling prospect in return. 2015 Braves are worse off, but 2015-2020 Braves are better because of this deal. Braves would not be good in 2015 with Heyward anyway. Might as well trade J upton now as well.

        Reply
        • sportsfan

          11 years ago

          Miller at best he is a number 3 starers. What upset me is that you give up Heyward and Walden and you don’t get a great bat in return.

          Reply
      • Ryan Ke.

        11 years ago

        typo 1.5-2.0 War

        Reply
  68. Cam R.

    11 years ago

    If you ever watched him as often as a braves fan you’ll know he’s peaked offensively. He will never fix his bouncing hands and chasing balls away. Good deal for both teams as we weren’t going to resign him anyways.

    Reply
  69. Rob Lucci

    11 years ago

    Usually is Heyward doing the robbing.

    Reply
  70. stonepie

    11 years ago

    braves couldn’t get more? find that hard to believe

    Reply
  71. Matt 40

    11 years ago

    I think Heyward is a good defensive outfielder but I don’t like the offensive power production and what kind of contract is he going to have nearing his prime? I like the Braves rotation better going forward. They are 5 deep.

    Reply
  72. Ryan Ke.

    11 years ago

    this also means Andrew Miller will not be a Cardinal as they have a new set up man.

    Reply
    • Andy B

      11 years ago

      he was never going to be a cardinal. He’s going to get overpaid, and that’s not Mozeilak’s style. I bet the cards go after Zack Duke.

      Reply
      • Ryan Ke.

        11 years ago

        more than likely not, but this seals the deal.

        Reply
  73. genius.gm.on.mlb.the.show

    11 years ago

    Did John Hart have a bad weekend? This doesn’t look good.

    Reply
  74. JordanSwingman

    11 years ago

    Great deal for the Braves. They didn’t show much interest in signing Heyward past this year, and now they get two guys for 4+ years of control AND could sign Heyward back if they want.

    Reply
  75. Will Rock

    11 years ago

    If the Cards sign him long-term this will be a great deal for them. Otherwise, they lost 10 total years of control from Miller and Jenkins.

    Reply
    • Matt 40

      11 years ago

      I wouldn’t want Heyward for a long term contract.

      Reply
    • Andy B

      11 years ago

      Cards have a good track record of doing that. If heyward is a fit, they have the money to extend him. plus he’s 25, you can comfortably give him an 8 year deal. The dollars is the question.

      Reply
  76. Joshua Owens

    11 years ago

    Braves did say they wouldn’t contend next year..start of the rebuilding phase

    Reply
  77. Michael Scherer

    11 years ago

    Not good! (head shaking in disagreement)

    Reply
  78. Kyle Carmody

    11 years ago

    I love this trade. I think my Cards got the WAY better end of this but at the same time this is not a bad deal for the Braves. They needed to get something for Heyward and Jenkins has impressed in the AFL and throughout the minors. He’s a solid solid piece especially with the great pitching development that goes on there in ATL. Probably not as high of ceiling as Teheran but could be a similar pitcher. Shelby Miller is still 24. He could still be an ace. I love Shelby and in the second half I finally had some confidence that he’s gonna put it together. At absolute worst Miller is a solid #4 or #5 starter, but I think it’s much more likely he can be a #1 or #2 quality. Gonna miss both of those guys but I always admired Heyward and Walden. Really Really excited about this trade!

    Reply
    • CT

      11 years ago

      If it’s only a 1 year rental, will you still be excited this time next year? He’s almost surely going to FA now.

      Reply
      • Kyle Carmody

        11 years ago

        Even if it is, which i don’t think it will be, if gives us a great shot at a WS this year, and gives time for Piscotty and Grichuk to develop. There’s very little risk in what we gave up. We have soooo much pitching

        Reply
        • CT

          11 years ago

          Hope you guys can get him more consistent at the plate, and his power returns. Otherwise he’s a very good defensive outfielder with an average bat.

          Reply
    • John Hawkins

      11 years ago

      Win now VS. Win later. Good trade for both teams. Cards get the best player in the trade but the Braves get a controllable young starter that won 15 games at 20 years old and is getting better. The Braves also shred about $10 million dollars. Next up will be an extension for Upton or he will be moved too. Braves looking at 2017.

      Reply
  79. cubs7691

    11 years ago

    Seems like a fair trade for all parties. Just wish it wasn’t the Cards, but it’ll be fun watching him in the central now

    Reply
    • Kyle Carmody

      11 years ago

      It was two strikes to the gut for the Cubs and Pirates too cuz Russell Martin just signed by the Blue Jays. I wouldn’t thanking God right now if I didn’t really respect and fear what both of those clubs are putting together. The Central is gonna be phenomenal next year….

      Reply
  80. CT

    11 years ago

    Shelby Miller is a solid piece for the Braves and will help the rotation (Teheran, Wood, Miller solid core), but no position prospects coming back?

    Reply
  81. Edgar4evar

    11 years ago

    I don’t see how the Braves make this deal. Are they about to sign an FA OF and just had to get rid of Heyward?

    Reply
    • CT

      11 years ago

      They likely know Heyward is going to test FA, and got a solid cost controlled pitcher in return.

      Reply
      • renots92

        11 years ago

        Hayward cant hit left-handed pitching, he really needs to platoon

        Reply
        • Edgar4evar

          11 years ago

          Yeah, he’s pretty poor (81 wRC+ career), but as a lefty he’s the strong side of the platoon and a very good defender. Seems like that skillset is undervalued as the M’s want to trade a guy with similar features in Saunders. Y’all can have him for Evan Gattis, I bet.

          Reply
      • Edgar4evar

        11 years ago

        The stats suggest Miller’s upside might actually be no better than average. He might be a fifth starter/long reliever. I would rather have the year of Heyward plus the compensation pick.

        Reply
  82. Jonathan Knipfing

    11 years ago

    Wow. Cardinals killed this trade. Good for my Marlins and the NL East

    Reply
  83. tom 26

    11 years ago

    im too excited that something else exciting may happen, dont wanna end my lunch break haha

    Reply
  84. Matt 40

    11 years ago

    This isn’t a landslide win for the Cardinals. Heyward is an average at best hitter and he is 25. He is going to magically figure it out? Defensive stats are overrated. I’ll take a guy that hits bombs over a 20-time gold glove winner.

    Reply
    • tom 26

      11 years ago

      there arent many of those available sir

      Reply
    • stl_cards16

      11 years ago

      117 WRC+ is not an average hitter.

      Reply
  85. K1nGF1$h

    11 years ago

    how much money does this save us for this year?

    Reply
  86. digitalian

    11 years ago

    I think the Braves are going to regret this deal in the years to come. Heyward is still 2 years from his prime age 27-31 years. I think he is going to explode in St Louis.

    Reply
    • FTNS

      11 years ago

      He’ll be a free agent in ’16…

      Reply
      • The_Sports_Dude

        11 years ago

        I don’t think he’ll see free agency. He’s going to tap into his potential in StL, and they’ll lock him up.

        Reply
        • FTNS

          11 years ago

          They gotta compete with the Yankees and Red Sox who desperately want Jason. GL with that.

          Reply
          • stl_cards16

            11 years ago

            Unless he doesn’t hit Free-Agency. It’s possible that before the trade was completed Mozeliak got a feel for what an extension would cost.

            Reply
            • Andy B

              11 years ago

              cards have the money to compete with anyone for an extension but I think they wait and see how he fits with the team.

              Reply
              • The_Sports_Dude

                11 years ago

                but but but... St Louis just received an extra draft pick for being a small market club...

                Reply
                • stl_cards16

                  11 years ago

                  Yes! Everyone here knows this is our favorite topic. So glad you brought it up, somehow it hasn’t been mentioned in the last 2 articles that were Cardinal related.

                  Reply
                  • slasher016 2

                    11 years ago

                    You can say what you want, but it is still absolutely ridiculous the Cardinals get a “competitive balance” pick every year.

                    Reply
                    • stl_cards16

                      11 years ago

                      I know. I don’t know how they would ever survive without the one pick they’ve received in it so far.

                      Reply
                • bucsws2014

                  11 years ago

                  And the Pirates didn’t… gotta love MLB’s concept of parity.

                  Reply
            • FTNS

              11 years ago

              If he wouldn’t sigh an extension (rejected twice) with his home team, he isn’t going to sign one with the Cards. The man isn’t stupid, and wants to get paid.

              Reply
        • FTNS

          11 years ago

          Trust me, as someone that has been watching Jason since his minor league days, he isn’t worth his future asking price.

          Reply
          • FTNS

            11 years ago

            All the potential in the world, but has never lived up to it.

            Reply
            • The_Sports_Dude

              11 years ago

              I agree he hasn’t lived up to this potential, but this reeks of the Cardinals falling up by replacing Oscar Taveras with Heyward. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if he puts it all together for StL.

              Reply
              • FTNS

                11 years ago

                I wouldn’t either, we’ve had some garbage hitting coaches the last 5 years. I can only see him improving as a Cardinal, but still don’t think he will ever be worth 200+ million

                Reply
    • CT

      11 years ago

      It’s a 1 year rental for the Cards, unless they throw stupid money at him.

      Reply
  87. jury_rigger

    11 years ago

    Can someone explain what the braves see in tyrell jenkins?

    Reply
    • stl_cards16

      11 years ago

      He just had a very good stint in the AFL. The stuff is good. Command, durability, and health is the question.

      Reply
    • Andy B

      11 years ago

      Jenkins could end up being the best player in this deal. He was drafted in 2010 always seen as having the upside of a 1 or 2 starter, but he was very raw. Had some injuries that set him back, but he’s finally putting it together. If you go to stltoday there’s a very good article on Jenkins that was written just yesterday.

      Reply
  88. Mets2016

    11 years ago

    Shelby Miller’s unluckiness continues.Hitters have more value than a pitcher. All I can say as a Met fan Heyward was a great ballplayer to watch even at the expense of the Mets. This trade came out of nowhere I wonder who called who on this one.

    Reply
  89. disqus_dK1T6HZq7Q

    11 years ago

    Interesting trade. Seems like the Cards lineup is a little too much left handed now.

    Reply
  90. Danny Phillips

    11 years ago

    How are the Braves going to go about improving their offense, which was their undoing in 2014? Just sent away a key cog, who may or may not have re-signed.

    Reply
    • tom 26

      11 years ago

      are they trying to model themselves after the royals?

      Reply
    • jury_rigger

      11 years ago

      Clearly rebuilding

      Reply
  91. Christopher Henderson

    11 years ago

    The offseason is finally starting to heat up!!!

    Reply
  92. Keith 2

    11 years ago

    I remember when we obtained Ray King, Jason Marquis, and Wainwright for J.d. Drew and Eli Marrero. Braves are hoping Jenkins and Miler both being consistent starters and worth taking a chance on their high ceilings. The Cardinals are grabbing a gold glover Right fielder with some pop. Carpenter, Heyward, Holiday, Adams, Peralta, Molina, Jay/Grichuk, Wong, Pitcher. Seems like a fun lineup for next year.

    Reply
    • Andy B

      11 years ago

      I was just thinking about that trade, I could see how this could be the reverse where we end up regretting giving up Jenkins the way the Braves gave up Wainwright.

      Reply
  93. BraveCrowe

    11 years ago

    Still Believe Justin Upton will be traded too. Or he will be signed to an extension soon. Given the circumstances of what this trade says to me, Justin Upton will be traded as well.

    Reply
    • tom 26

      11 years ago

      feel gattis will go before upton, id hold on to upton tho

      Reply
      • BraveCrowe

        11 years ago

        I hope they hold on to both to be quite frank. Upton and Gattis keep thump in the lineup. Freeman and Upton is quite a solid 3-4 punch, regardless of the pitcher, you have to give more mental effort in their AB’s.

        Reply
    • CT

      11 years ago

      Hope they get some position players in return for JUpton.

      Reply
      • BraveCrowe

        11 years ago

        I posted the other day that I believed we would trade them both, one for pitching prospects and the other for a near ready outfield prospect. I hate the thought of a whole-sale rebuild. But honestly it may be the best route, you can try to push a square through a circle hole and it will never work, The lifelong fan is sadden, but the logical fans understands completely.

        Reply
  94. Christopher Soto

    11 years ago

    Interesting….I’m not sure what the Braves gain from this trade. Miller struggled most of the 2014 season before turning it on in his final 5 September starts against inferior teams. As for Jenkins, Yes, he was a former Top 100 prospect, but his K/9 rate as a starter has plummeted into the low 5’s during his time in Advanced A ball. There must be some serious concerns that Kris Medlen and Brandon Beachy may not be 100% when they get back from their respective surgeries. The move will give the Braves a young 2015 rotation of Teheran, Minor, Miller, Beachy, and Medlen.

    As for the Cardinals….I love the deal for them. The Cardinals organization is stocked with young talented arms that can easily replace Miller (i.e. Carlos Martinez). Heyward is one of the best defensive OF’ers in baseball with a solid bat capable of adding 5+ wins per season. Also Walden is no traditional throw in, he’s been one of the toughest right handed relievers in baseball over the past two seasons holding opponents to a .186 batting average.

    Reply
    • Justin Bremerkamp

      11 years ago

      Coming from a Cards fan, I really like Heyward a lot, and am glad to see him with the club. That said, I will be sad to see Shelby leave. Miller is still very young, and as someone who rarely misses an inning of Cardinal baseball, I think Shelby was really starting to figure some things out toward the latter part of 2014. I think the Braves may be getting a guy who is just starting to come into his own.

      Reply
  95. Matt 40

    11 years ago

    I like La Stella for Vizcaino better than Heyward for Miller.

    Reply
  96. Daniel Morairity

    11 years ago

    The braves r probably going to trade Justin Upton now since they trade heyward to st Louis

    Reply
  97. Unassisted Triple Play

    11 years ago

    Cardnals get better on defense but offensively, Jason Heyward has a lot to prove! Braves are clearly building for contention later on down the road when they open their new ballpark! If heyward picks it up with the bat and signs for longer than one year at a reasonable contract then this is great deal for St. Louis. If he leaves after this seson then the braves absolutely win this trade by grabbing two young controllable players, one with tremendous upside!

    Reply
  98. Kyle Carmody

    11 years ago

    Bring Scherzer back home now Mo!!! I highly doubt it would happen, but it would be exciting hahaha

    Reply
  99. TGre18

    11 years ago

    Miller is league minimum. Braves save $9.5M in 2015 with this trade, allowing more room for other assets to be brought in. Hart is not done yet. Maybe Andrus will be a Brave again. Need to replace the hole on the right side of the infield left by LaStella to the Cubs.

    Reply
    • stl_cards16

      11 years ago

      Andrus would be a real waste at 2B.

      Reply
      • TGre18

        11 years ago

        As a second baseman, him and Simmons would be the best infield combo since Alan Trammel and Lou Whitaker! But y’all are right. The offense would be a downside to spend the open money on.

        Reply
    • talcha32

      11 years ago

      If you want Andrus, come get him. Seriously.

      Reply
    • Seamaholic

      11 years ago

      Only for this year. He hits arbitration next off-season and will get expensive fast.

      Reply
  100. Matt 40

    11 years ago

    I love the deal being a Cubs fan. The Cardinals are getting a defense first OF for a decent pitcher. Defense isn’t going to matter when Bryant, Soler, Rizzo, Baez are all hitting bombs off of St. Louis :p

    Reply
    • stonepie

      11 years ago

      fly ball hitting team meets excellent defensive outfielder

      Reply
  101. petcopadre

    11 years ago

    wow, Good job Cards!

    Reply
  102. Jamie Lowe

    11 years ago

    Come on Braves could you at least trade him to the American League???

    Reply
  103. K1nGF1$h

    11 years ago

    As been pointed out they saved 9.5 million on this and there is still work to do yet.

    Reply
    • John Hawkins

      11 years ago

      Upton and Kembrel are next. Should both bring back solid returns. Too bad there is no moving BJ.

      Reply
      • Andy B

        11 years ago

        If you’re rebuilding for 2017 then you should definitely trade Kimbrel. The live of relievers is short lived. Who knows what Kimbrel will be by then. Go get the Dodgers to overpay for him.

        Reply
  104. Danny Phillips

    11 years ago

    A bit risky for the Cards if they intend to resign J Hey. Watching him in the past in the NLE, his value is derived from his defense. No signs of his offense improving in recent years.

    They have pitching to fill in, I guess though.

    Reply
  105. alexamato

    11 years ago

    Braves got fleeced in this one

    Reply
    • Seamaholic

      11 years ago

      One year of control. Braves cleared up some money to make another move, and were obviously persuaded Heyward was going for the big bucks next off-season.

      Reply
  106. Justin Bremerkamp

    11 years ago

    Big fan of Heyward, and like the trade. I am a little concerned that the Cardinals are becoming a bit too Left Handed, but overall, this deal gets a “thumbs up” from me.

    Reply
  107. agureghian

    11 years ago

    I like the deal for the Braves

    Reply
    • sportsfan

      11 years ago

      You must not be a Braves fan then. As a Braves fan I hate this trade for so many reason.

      Reply
      • $3513744

        11 years ago

        so all braves fans have to agree?

        Reply
      • Danny Phillips

        11 years ago

        This off season will make the Braves worse in 2015 likely. They will probably be a better team the latter part of the decade as a result of it though.

        Reply
      • agureghian

        11 years ago

        I like it because of the years you get out of Shelby Miller, a pretty good starter right now, with a chance to be a great one later.
        Jason Heyward only has 1 more year on his deal…

        Reply
  108. Pei Kang

    11 years ago

    very shocked the Braves dealt Heyward.

    Reply
  109. Matt R

    11 years ago

    Good replacement for Taveras for STL

    Reply
  110. Kent Kimes

    11 years ago

    They wouldn’t take B.J. as a stow-away?

    Reply
    • JacobyWanKenobi

      11 years ago

      I don’t think they’d have taken BJ if ATL ate all but $1 per year.

      Reply
      • Kent Kimes

        11 years ago

        Yes, but one can dream…

        Reply
  111. sportsfan

    11 years ago

    Great job Cards you got one of the best defended in the game today and you also get one of the best set up man in baseball today. In return you gave up an OK young pitcher and not your top 10 prospect.

    Reply
  112. Kent Kimes

    11 years ago

    And Cards fans, Walden’s stats look good on paper – but dude will have you pulling your hair out – and he gets injured every year; bank on it.

    Reply
  113. Daniel Morairity

    11 years ago

    Now the braves can probably trade Justin Upton now

    Reply
    • FTNS

      11 years ago

      I can see Justin regressing big time in the next couple of years. The man swings at more pitches outside of the strike zone than anyone in the league. His defense is pretty bad as well, and will only get worse.

      Reply
      • Daniel Morairity

        11 years ago

        Will Upton be traded this off-season

        Reply
        • Danny Phillips

          11 years ago

          highly likely

          Reply
          • talcha32

            11 years ago

            How much would it cost in prospects is the question. If JUp is available, no doubt JD will be interested.

            Reply
        • FTNS

          11 years ago

          If Heyward was, definitely.

          Reply
        • FTNS

          11 years ago

          Unless you mean BJ, then probably not.

          Reply
    • jury_rigger

      11 years ago

      As a braves fan, I hope he’s next, along with his brother and cj

      Reply
      • Daniel Morairity

        11 years ago

        Will Upton be traded jury

        Reply
  114. Will Rock

    11 years ago

    Reaction from a friend who is not a Cards fan or Stl sports fan:

    “After the Rams beat the Broncos yesterday, I have decided I know nothing about sports. But I would guess that the trade will work out perfect for the Cardinals cause no matter what they’ll end up in the NLCS.”

    Reply
  115. aidenr

    11 years ago

    I understand trading J-Hey, but man, the Braves sold for like 30 cents on the dollar here. Terrible value for a premier player.

    Reply
    • slasher016 2

      11 years ago

      One year of control. One year of control. One year of control.

      Reply
      • FTNS

        11 years ago

        Exactly, people seem to forget this.

        Reply
      • aidenr

        11 years ago

        And that’s why I said I understand trading him. It’s still terrible value, this guy could easily net two top prospects. Instead they got a fringe prospect and a pitcher who will likely never amount to his potential and could easily self-implode.

        Reply
        • Danny Phillips

          11 years ago

          Braves also gave away a quality set up guy.

          Reply
          • aidenr

            11 years ago

            Yep, that too.

            And Jenkins is no longer a top 100 prospect.

            Reply
            • Andy B

              11 years ago

              Jenkins took a longtime to develop but he has a lot of potential. He had a good AFL season don’t be surprised to see him back on top 100 lists.

              Reply
          • stymeedone

            11 years ago

            Wasn’t Walden non-tendered once before because he got too expensive. Atlanta was just shedding salary. Not saying he’s not a decent pitcher, just saying he’s not a bargain.

            Reply
        • slasher016 2

          11 years ago

          A top 100 in all of MLB is not a “fringe” prospect.

          Reply
          • Danny Phillips

            11 years ago

            In many cases though, guys ranked 50-100 in those lists still don’t pan out.

            Reply
            • slasher016 2

              11 years ago

              No doubt, but many top 10 prospects don’t either. It’s the prospect lottery. So many “can’t miss” prospects miss.

              Reply
          • Seamaholic

            11 years ago

            He isn’t top 100 anymore. He’s now a former top prospect battling back from shoulder surgery.

            Reply
        • Bradley Maravalli

          11 years ago

          6 WAR player (Heyward) for one year was traded for a 1.5 WAR player (Miller) for four years – 6 WAR altogether. Pretty equal in that regard.

          Reply
          • FTNS

            11 years ago

            Depends on how much you value dWAR

            Reply
          • NL_East_Rivalry

            11 years ago

            Also costs of each WAR. Heyward will cost less than Miller toward FA.

            Reply
          • stl_cards16

            11 years ago

            One 6 WAR season is much more valuable that four 1.5 WAR seasons.

            Reply
            • stymeedone

              11 years ago

              Miller is only 23. I doubt he will remain a 1.5 WAR player. He will probably show more improvement in the next 3 years than the 25 yr old.

              Reply
    • Bradley Maravalli

      11 years ago

      I hear you man but you have to wonder what everyone else was offering. One year rental isn’t worth as much. It’ll be interesting to see what Cespedes is worth when/if the Red Sox trade him.

      Reply
      • aidenr

        11 years ago

        True. If this is the market for a premier RF, then I think the Sox hold onto Cespedes.

        Reply
        • stymeedone

          11 years ago

          Keep in mind, it is the market FOR ONE YEAR of a premier RF.

          Reply
  116. Alexander Childress

    11 years ago

    Unfortunetly, this may be a direct result of losing Tavares. 🙁

    Reply
  117. Bradley Maravalli

    11 years ago

    It is very unfortunate what happened to Tavares, but from a baseball viewpoint, I believe that a healthy Wacha can make up for the trading of Miller for Heyward.

    Reply
  118. bravo_84

    11 years ago

    Looks like ATL is phoning it in until that new stadium is built. If that’s the decision then fine, but don’t you dare stop now. If its going to be a fire sell lets clean house.

    Reply
  119. jury_rigger

    11 years ago

    Wish list for rest of offseason for braves: trade gattis, both Uptons, and cj. Package the good with the bad I.e. Upton bros together, gattis and cj. Sign headley. Resign harang as innings eater with hope of flipping him mid season. In short, rebuild for 2017.

    Reply
  120. Andy B

    11 years ago

    For all the Braves fans complaining about the haul they got. Derrick Goold the beat reporter for the cards said he felt the price for Heyward was pretty steep.

    Reply
    • bravo_84

      11 years ago

      When you trade a 25 year old top 3 defensive outfielder the other team is supposed to feel fleeced.

      Reply
  121. Kyle Carmody

    11 years ago

    1.Marp
    2.Heyward
    3.Holliday
    4.Adams
    5.Peralta
    6.Molina
    7.Wong
    8.Jay
    9.P

    Waino, Lynn, Wacha, Lackey, Martinez
    Rosenthal at closer, Walden at set up
    I love it

    Reply
    • Andy B

      11 years ago

      I love the OBP at the top of the order, look for holliday to have a ton of RBIs. Concerned we’re a little vulnerable to left handers, hopefully the cards will teach Heyward how to read Kershaw’s tipped pitches.

      Reply
      • Kyle Carmody

        11 years ago

        I wouldn’t mind seeing Grichuk or Piscotty spell Heyward against lefties everyonce in a while either. Marp will have to teach Heyward about Kershaw haha

        Reply
    • Matt 40

      11 years ago

      Not Impressed. Cubs 2015-16
      1. Alcantra/Almora CF
      2. Russell 3B
      3. Bryant LF
      4. Rizzo 1B
      5. Baez 2nd
      6. Castro SS
      7. Soler RF
      8. Castillo C
      9. P

      Lester (most likely), Arrieta, Wood, Hendircks, Dubront/Turner

      Reply
      • Danny Phillips

        11 years ago

        three of those guys have done nothing yet in MLB. Not counting Baez, who just struck out in half of his ab’s in a large sample.

        Reply
      • Andy B

        11 years ago

        Lots of those guys have potential, but a bird in the hand is worth two in a bush. Don’t be surprised if not all of those guys live up to expectations except bryant.

        Reply
        • Matt 40

          11 years ago

          Really? You think ALL of the them are going to be busts? And Rizzo was 2nd in the NL in HR. Keeping hoping because the Central will be the Cubs for the next decade.

          Reply
          • tom 26

            11 years ago

            well how do we know that they wont? u cant just wish they will be, a lineup of young guys will struggle against experienced pitchers. why u ask? not many young athletes are patient at the plate aka harper and puig, veteran pitchers will have a field day

            Reply
          • Danny Phillips

            11 years ago

            You are plugging all of them in like they are all sure things. Against a Cards lineup that has a proven MLB track record ( not a Cards fan btw).

            Reply
          • Andy B

            11 years ago

            Did you read what I said? I said don’t be surprised if not all of those guys live up to expectations. Cubs have been saying wait until next year for a 100 plus years. Don’t get me wrong I like what theo has done, but there is no way that the cubs live up to the hype they are getting. I look forward to the upcoming battles over the next 5 years, but i’m hardly ready to concede the central.

            Reply
      • Kyle Carmody

        11 years ago

        Alcantara was mediocre at best when he came up, Almora has done nothing, Bryant has proved nothing, Russell has proved nothing, Rizzo is good, Baez will K 200+ times and was HORRIBLE last year, Castro will likely be traded, Soler was good, Castillo sucks, Lester will likely be in Boston before Chicago, Arrieta has had one good year, and the rest of your pitching has done nothing, so keep talking

        Reply
      • nbcards

        11 years ago

        not impressed

        Reply
      • Mihailo1227

        11 years ago

        Don’t count your chicken before they hatch. That’s all I have to say lol. I hate to say it I think Lester is going back to Boston, and I had Lester going to the cubs on the Free agent predictor :/

        Reply
  122. Andy B

    11 years ago

    Interesting Shelby Miller fact, the cardinals in the 2009 draft planned on drafting Mike Trout. But then when Shelby Miller fell to 19 they felt they had to grab him because they saw no chance he would fall all the way to 19.

    Reply
  123. Jonathan P.

    11 years ago

    Idk man, i thought Heyward would cost more and Im jealous of the Cards by acquiring him, plus a Set Up

    Reply
  124. cookmeister

    11 years ago

    Initial reaction is that the Cardinals won this trade. The more I think about it, I think whoever wins this trade depends on what happens with Heyward. Short term this makes the Cardinals better. Long term (especially if Heyward doesn’t sign), this could swing more towards the Braves side. Will be interesting to see how this plays out

    Reply
  125. disadvantage 2

    11 years ago

    Trading a talented outfielder for a pitcher with upside? What a Brave move.

    Reply
  126. Vincent Paterno

    11 years ago

    As a Nats fan, I’m not sure how to feel about this trade between two of the team’s recent tormentors. But it appears the Braves are eyeing 2017 and Cobb County in lieu of contending the next two seasons. At first glance, this swap is a win for the Cardinals.

    Reply
  127. Rbase

    11 years ago

    This trade makes a ton of sense to me.
    Atlanta was not going to extend Justin Upton AND Jason Heyward. They essentially traded one year of Heyward and a for a middle-of-the-rotation starter and an ok prospect.
    The cardinals probably felt Piscotty/Grichuk were not ready to take over in right field for 162 games and so they needed a right fielder. They traded a rotation piece BUT got a fire-arm reliever which enables them to move Martinez to the rotation. If they sign another rotation piece (Hammel/Peavy/…) they are set for 2015.

    Reply
  128. Trent 2

    11 years ago

    Red Sox you blew your chance

    Reply
    • Rbase

      11 years ago

      Red sox already got Kelly 🙂

      Reply
      • M.Kit

        11 years ago

        Both Kelly and Miller gone from St. Louis, wonder if anyone saw that happening

        Reply
  129. Jordan R.

    11 years ago

    Heyward was good defensively but he just doesn’t fit what the Braves are looking for on Offense. I like the move, simply to free up some cap and go ahead and speed up the process, as we all knew the Braves wouldn’t have been able to retain Heyward

    Reply
  130. DKallday

    11 years ago

    Not bad Braves. Never been a fan of Shelby Miller though. But he can be cost-controlled.
    This has to mean that the Cardinals are going after one of the bigger pitching free agents like Max Scherzer. There has to be some mutual liking between the two sides. (Scherzer being one of the best pitchers in baseball and the fact that Scherzer grew up a Cards fan in Missouri.) Almost a match made in baseball heaven. Sigh.

    Reply
    • Marc

      11 years ago

      Or they bring up another kid (like they always seem to do) and use the money to attempt to resign Heyward long-term.

      Reply
    • Andy B

      11 years ago

      we traded our fifth starter, why would we need scherzer?

      Reply
      • DKallday

        11 years ago

        because Cards need starting pitching?

        Reply
        • Andy B

          11 years ago

          Jaime Garcia, Carlos Martinez or Marco Gonzalez will be your fifth starter, the cardinals need starting pitching less than any other team.

          Reply
          • DKallday

            11 years ago

            Never mind I forgot they got Lackey at the deadline who is pitching for the Cards in 2015.

            Reply
        • stl_cards16

          11 years ago

          Wainwright, Wacha, Lackey, Lynn, Martinez, Gonzales, Lyons. There’s no need to go to free agency for pitching.

          Reply
    • Matt 40

      11 years ago

      Scherzer rejected a 6 yr $144 million dollar deal last year. Cardinals are going to sign him? Ok. When pigs fly

      Reply
  131. Brian C 2

    11 years ago

    Surprised Atlanta could get that much in return for a pending free agent with Heyward’s slash line. Gotta love the WAR stat too, it claims Heyward is as valuable as Stanton hahahahaha. 4 years of Miller for 1 of Heyward is a bit of head scratcher but like Heyward in ATL, Miller had clearly fallen out of favor in STL. If you’re trying to win this year and not concerned about letting Heyward walk and not concerned about what Miller might do, you make the trade. If Heyward hits and defends this year he’s headed for a HUGE payday. (if Heyward hits and defends he’s a 9+ WAR player, he was a 6+ WAR player without the bat). Of course, no one is going to pay him more than Giancarlo, which means there is more to evaluating talent than just a stat like WAR.

    Reply
  132. Jordan R.

    11 years ago

    Everyone seems to think they’re a GM.. I promise you the decisions made on both sides of this trade are more detailed and thought out than some of you are led to believe. This is hard to see as a Braves fan, not this move in particular but the front office is obviously thinking long-term. They want to be good by the time they move into their new ballpark in 2017. The new GM, John Hart, is essentially trying to stop the bleeding from the costly mistakes Frank Wren made. Frank Wren might single handedly had the worst two signings in a decade in Dan Uggla and BJ Upton, Eating up a total of 150MM in precious cap that could be going toward building a championship team today, and not later

    Reply
    • tom 26

      11 years ago

      well obviously we know thats true, lol we are entitled to our opinions tho

      Reply
      • Jordan R.

        11 years ago

        I apologize if I came off rash, I wasn’t intending to be. Just some of the comments from the start of this thread to now insinuate that this is a terrible move. It may be, I don’t know the answer to that, but I tend to lend more credibility to the guys pulling the strings.

        Reply
        • tom 26

          11 years ago

          oh i agree with you there sir, for all we know the braves may win the deal in years to come, most people only look towards next year though

          Reply
          • Jordan R.

            11 years ago

            And sadly, for the first time in a decade or more, it’s easy to say the Braves will not be contenders this year.

            Reply
  133. Nick Stephan

    11 years ago

    I actually like the trade, but i do hate seeing Jason go.
    We have Shelby for a lot of years and Roger McDowell will turn him into an ace no doubt.
    Now just PLEASE get rid of BJ. Package him with some controllable prospects so a team will bite.

    Reply
    • Danny Phillips

      11 years ago

      Braves don’t have many enticing controllable prospects, which is why they are essentially punting 2015.

      Reply
      • Nick Stephan

        11 years ago

        Yeah I was thinking more like Mike Minor. Guess I shouldn’t have used the word prospects.

        Reply
    • Jordan R.

      11 years ago

      I still think we’ll see Justin Upton sent out. Hopefully they’ll get some promising prospects from a deal involving him

      Reply
    • sdsny

      11 years ago

      A team will bite if the Braves offer to eat the money, not so much offer extra prospects. Prospects wouldn’t hurt either, but nobody wants to pay that kind of money to a guy who’s as bad as BJ Upton right now.

      Reply
  134. Ace2095

    11 years ago

    If you ask a Cardinals fan who won this trade they will say Miller is a bust and was expandable anyway while Heyward will be the best OF in all of baseball.
    But if you ask a Braves fan who won they will say that Heyward was overrated and Miller will become an Ace.
    But here’s my take on it I believe the Braves got fair value, they would of lost Heyward next year anyway and this is more of a rebuilding year so he wouldn’t of made a difference, but this way they get a controllable young arm coming off a bad season but still has the potential to be great. But this trade will shift in the Cardinals favor if Heyward turns out to be the piece to bring another championship to ST Louis, only time will tell.

    Reply
    • tom 26

      11 years ago

      but it leaves a giant hole in the braves offense that was struggling already

      Reply
      • Ace2095

        11 years ago

        Heyward provided most of his value in the field and if their offense was struggling Heyward what makes you think next year would be any different? The Braves have been going in the wrong direction and I think this trade will finally put them in the right direction in the long run.

        Reply
        • tom 26

          11 years ago

          very true, but with this trade it means u have an outfield of upton, upton and most likely gattis. plus that means beancourt at catcher and goesslin?? at second, that eliminates offense

          Reply
          • Jordan R.

            11 years ago

            Probably Ramiro Pena at 2nd. The Braves also have a promising 2B prospect that might still be a year away. I don’t think Upton and Upton will be in the Braves outfield next season. I think Justin will get sent out

            Reply
            • tom 26

              11 years ago

              i wouldnt imagine j upton being traded, trading him would set the braves back years, not gonna help them if they aiming for the season after next

              Reply
              • Jordan R.

                11 years ago

                I just don’t think they can afford him. His price increases this year and then he’ll also be a free agent. Justin Upton can get way more from a large market team than the Braves can pay him. Especially after the Braves spent so much on Freeman and Simmons

                Reply
                • tom 26

                  11 years ago

                  i see your point, i guess im one who doesnt like the whole proven guy for possible prospects cause u never know what u gonna get from them

                  Reply
      • Jordan R.

        11 years ago

        Heyward was much apart of that “Hole” in the Braves offense, I assure you.

        Reply
    • DieHardMsFan

      11 years ago

      I disagree. I think they should have kept Heyward and if anything traded him at the deadline as I think they would have got similar value. Maybe even more if he has a “career” year prior to hitting free agency….

      Reply
      • Ace2095

        11 years ago

        That is banking on him being productive and healthy for another half of a season when there are other options on the market and possibly teams might be less willing to part with a pitcher in their rotation like the cardinals did in the middle of the season, besides if they don’t feel they can compete next year then what is the point of holding him for another half a year to get similar value?

        Reply
        • DieHardMsFan

          11 years ago

          Well he has averaged 136 games a year throughout his career or it isn’t like he has huge injury concerns. More nagging injuries. He is only 25 years old who has plenty of room for improvement. Plus the added motivation of being in a contract year and I think you have a recipe for a huge year from Heyward.

          It isn’t like the Braves are getting sure things in Miller/Jenkins here. Also you have to factor in Walden here who is still controlled for a few years after 2015. I am just a little puzzled by the Braves. I guess they took a “safe” deal here but they could have potentially received a better deal at the trade deadline.

          I mean the Red Sox got a very good prospect for Miller last year (have to think Walden has more value then that).

          I guess we can just agree to disagree with each other and wait to see how it plays out….

          Reply
    • sdsny

      11 years ago

      The Braves seem to know pitchers too. Aaron Harang and Ervin Santana had seasons that were way better than what you’d expect.

      Reply
      • Ace2095

        11 years ago

        As a Red Sox fan I know to take young pitchers failing with a grain of salt because if you look at Justin Masterson, Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz they have a had growing pains along the way and I feel that might be what Miller is experiencing

        Reply
    • Kyle Carmody

      11 years ago

      I agree with you to an extent. I think the Cards got a way better deal, but given the fact that Braves were gonna lose Heyward anyway it’s not like its a bad move for ATL. They got some real good pieces in return. Still a good move for ATL. Good move for both teams, just think its a much higher impact one for the Cards

      Reply
      • Ace2095

        11 years ago

        The impact at the start of the trade goes to the Cardinals but what a lot of people fail to look at when saying a deal is a bad deal is the long term effect which I believe gives the edge to the Braves in the grand scheme of things

        Reply
        • Kyle Carmody

          11 years ago

          Well if the Cards resign Heyward I’m not sure the edge goes to the Braves. The nice thing about this trade for the Cards is that they didn’t give up much for Heyward. Miller was in competition with Marco Gonzalez, Rosenthal, and Martinez for a rotation spot so the loss of Miller wasn’t that big for the Cards long term or short term (even with Miller at 24, Martinez and Gonzalez are both younger than him). If the Cards resign Heyward then both long term and short term they’ve added an impact bat and not lost much.

          Reply
  135. Vandals Took The Handles

    11 years ago

    Miller without Yadi catching him has not been very successful.

    Reply
  136. sdsny

    11 years ago

    The Braves are cleaning house. Just about everybody on that team seems to be available. What else can they do? Aside from April, the Braves were atrocious in 2014. They strike out too much and have issues with pitching depth. That’s why I’m a little surprised they parted with La Stella. La Stella doesn’t have much pop, but he makes contact. Over a full season, he would’ve been projected to strike out only 70 times. That’s exceedingly low these days.

    Reply
    • Justin Bremerkamp

      11 years ago

      In that case, the Cards should inquire about Freddie Freeman too…or perhaps they already have.

      Reply
  137. willywater88

    11 years ago

    I think we should add another perspective to the trade. Instead of treating Heyward as 1 year/$8M, we can add 7 years/$140M to his contract (just my estimate).

    So 4 years of cost controlled Shelby Miller (mid to front rotation pitcher) + Jenkins (C+/B- prospect?) for 8 years of Heyward at $148M and 3 years of cost controlled Walden.

    In this case, I think both teams address their respective needs.

    The other possibility is Heyward signs elsewhere next season and the Cardinals receive 1 year at a great discount and a draft pick for the future.

    Reply
    • Baseball597

      11 years ago

      Agreed. Some people don’t realize that clearly money was a major factor in this trade. Braves were obviously not willing to give Heyward a huge raise after next year, so they end up trading him while getting a decent piece in return.

      Reply
    • tom 26

      11 years ago

      can we also throw a perspective in about the fans money? lol this trade sells more tickets in stl and less in atlanta

      Reply
      • DieHardMsFan

        11 years ago

        The Cardinals would have sold out every game anyway with Heyward. St. Louis is on of the best baseball towns and they should be a WS contender next year.

        Reply
      • TimotheusATL

        11 years ago

        it’s pretty difficult to sell less tickets in atlanta than they already are. hardly relevant.

        Reply
    • CT

      11 years ago

      I think the Cards are gambling somewhat that they can possibly resign him. If they can’t, then they have given up a cost controlled pitcher for a 1 year rental.

      Reply
  138. Rookie5150

    11 years ago

    From a non-biased standpoint this might be a decent to good trade for the Braves. Jason Heyward is my favorite player so I’m really bummed right now, but Shelby Miller is a great pitcher and Jenkins seems to at least have the potential to be some kind of impact arm if it works out. That’s not tooo bad for one year of Jason, although I wish they would’ve gotten more.. Maybe the Braves can still try to resign him after 2015..? I still believe Heyward’s going to be an MVP caliber player in the future, even though he hasn’t quite put it together from on offensive standpoint; he is still very young though.

    Reply
  139. Out in Left Field

    11 years ago

    Great trade for both sides. Heyward is a free agent after 2015 and it was obvious that the Braves could not get him extended. The Braves just got Vizcaino back, so they had a surplus of setup men. Shelby Miller would be the odd man out in the Cardinals rotation with the return of Garcia and Wacha in 2015. He will step into the #3 slot in the Braves rotation. With the death of Taveras, the Cardinals had a huge need in the OF, now they need to extend Heyward to make this deal work for them.

    Reply
  140. roberta

    11 years ago

    just have to hope Gaddis drives in more than he lets in out in left field. Love the trade though, Heyward is good but you will take high potential pitching over high potential hitting everytime

    Reply
  141. start_wearing_purple

    11 years ago

    Overall it looks likes a fair trade. Don’t know much about Jenkins but I’d give a slight edge to the Cards in this trade.

    Reply
  142. Rookie5150

    11 years ago

    People on here seem to overlook the fact that Miller and Jenkins are what the Cardinals payed for Heyward in 2015; not his long term potential. I think they have about the same chance the Braves have to resign him after next year. Which isnt great unless you’re willing to overpay and outbid the larger market teams.

    Reply
    • FTNS

      11 years ago

      When Heyward rejected his contract extension last year. I knew free agency was inevitable.

      Reply
      • stl_cards16

        11 years ago

        I wasn’t aware there was an actual offer? What was the $$ and years?

        Reply
        • Andy B

          11 years ago

          they definitely had discussions, I don’t think the numbers were made public

          Reply
        • FTNS

          11 years ago

          They never disclosed financial details.

          Reply
    • Andy B

      11 years ago

      Cardinals have a very good track of signing players they trade for. It’s how they add players.

      Reply
      • Rookie5150

        11 years ago

        If they are able to resign him it would definitely be great for the Cardinals. At the very least they get great monetary value for Heyward in 2015 and a draft pick if he walks next year. But from a slightly different perspective, if they aren’t able to resign him, they gave up 4-years of a starting pitcher with a lot of upside for a 1-year rental. Again, I think its a pretty good deal for both sides.

        Reply
        • stl_cards16

          11 years ago

          They also get 2 years of a pretty good set-up man and a compensation pick.

          Reply
  143. raiderdoug

    11 years ago

    Who wins this trade is still to be be determined. Both guys have some flaws. If Heyward ends up a Yankee or a Cub in 2016 (he’s going for the $$$), St. Louis will regret this. If Heyward resigns and manages to figure out how to be more than a black hole against leftys, then the Braves will be kicking themselves.

    Reply
  144. Melvin Mendoza, Jr.

    11 years ago

    I’ve always thought Heyward was overhyped, but I feel like we could have gotten way more for him in a trade, so for that reason I am disappointed. I especially don’t like throwing Walden in.

    Reply
  145. Dale Gribble

    11 years ago

    The Braves win this trade as far as I am concerned.

    Now have a rotation of: Teheran, Wood, Miller, Minor, and an option of Medlen though turning down his $5.8 Million arbitration money might be wise now after 2 Tommy John Surgeries, David Hale could be a 5th option, or clearing up money to spend on a back end 5th arm.

    So if you can save $7.8 Million off Heyward, $3 Million off Walden, and rejecting $5.8 Million Option on Kris Medlen. That is close to $16 Million dollars in savings which could be used as money to send B.J. Upton to another team. B.J. is currently owed $46 Million more for the next 3 years, and if we can get rid of him it would definitely negate any sorrow felt from trading Heyward.

    So on the first two trades of the Hart era, I am definitely a fan. Saving Money, Getting a Young high up side arm for an outfielder who will be gone next season, Then the trade yesterday got us a got reacquire in Arodys Vizcaino, and $800,000 in International Signing Money.

    Reply
    • i'm me ..

      11 years ago

      Shelby cant throw strikes….

      Reply
      • Dale Gribble

        11 years ago

        I expect for Braves pitching coach Roger McDowell to fix what ails young Shelby Miller. If he can turn Aaron Harang who was all but done prior to last season around. He should have no problem with a high upside arm like Shelby Miller.

        Reply
        • stl_cards16

          11 years ago

          Shelby Miller will only get close to his upside if he can have a plus pitch besides his fastball.

          Reply
          • Dale Gribble

            11 years ago

            McDowell who had a good sinker in his career usually gets pitchers to incorporate it into their arsenal. He really helps pitchers expand their arsenal which is one reason I am such a big fan of him as a pitching coach. That’s why the Braves despite their terrible offense always have one of the better ranked pitching staffs in baseball despite not being as talented as some.

            Reply
        • Andy B

          11 years ago

          Shelby has already turned it around. The key is look what he did in september. That’s when Yadi came back, had him start throwing more curves and masterson taught him the sinker. He’s been a different pitcher since. Only thing I’d be concerned about is how well he develops without yadi.

          Reply
          • Dale Gribble

            11 years ago

            Christhian Bethancourt is a premium defensive catcher, can’t hit great yet, but there have been some scouts who have compared his defensive ability to that of Yadier, so I definitely don’t see that being much of a problem.

            Reply
            • Ryan 34

              11 years ago

              Being a good defender and the ability to call a game from behind the plate are two completely different things. I sincerely dought ATL is going to let a rookie cather call the pitches.

              Reply
        • i'm me ..

          11 years ago

          lets hope so. the guy is a walking machine.

          Reply
          • Dale Gribble

            11 years ago

            It really concerned me a bit when I saw 73 BB in 183 IP from him last season.

            Reply
            • i'm me ..

              11 years ago

              lol. he was horrid.

              Reply
    • Kyle Carmody

      11 years ago

      Cards win this trade imo. It’s honestly a good move for both teams, and you hit it on the head for the Braves side, and thats not even including the future impact of Tyrell Jenkins. I think the Cardinals get a higher impact thought because they just added a young, potentially impact bat to their lineup and if they resign him (which they absolutely can afford) then they’ve just added a big impact player and only lost one player who was blocked for a long time (Jenkins) and another (Shelby Miller) who was in competition with two essentially equal, younger pitchers with arguably higher ceilings in Martinez & Gonzalez. Aka a very low risk, very high reward move for the Cardinals

      Reply
  146. Mikenmn

    11 years ago

    I love big trades–big talents, big potential, big upsides. Could really work for both sides, could be the one that haunts a GM forever…

    Reply
  147. Robert Joseph Cerasuolo

    11 years ago

    I like it but I dont like it for the Braves I mean this guy along with Freeman could have been another version of the Bash Brothers to the J and J crew and to those who don’t know that Jones and Jones Chipper and Andruw. I like it for the fact we get a could be ace for the team but this is taking runs out of the Braves lineup

    Reply
  148. Chiburgh

    11 years ago

    Now Shelby can move on from STL trading away his best friend, Joe Kelly last season.

    Reply
  149. RyÅnWKrol

    11 years ago

    Good trade for the Cardinals. Can’t say that I agree with the Braves side of it. And STL gets yet another former Angel.

    Reply
  150. TimotheusATL

    11 years ago

    Good. Blow up the whole outfield. Both Uptons next, please.

    Reply
    • Dale Gribble

      11 years ago

      I would like 1,000 times if I could.

      Reply
  151. Stonehands

    11 years ago

    I can’t believe how little Mozeliak actually gave up in this trade…

    Reply
  152. Rob 24

    11 years ago

    I wish the W Sox knew Heyward was available this easy…he’d be a great fit for the team.

    Reply
  153. Kevin Sheets

    11 years ago

    I think this just goes to show that Atlanta did not believe it could pay Heyward or simply did not want to pay him. This shouldn’t be a shock to anyone after he renewed just for arbitration years. Braves now have holes at 2B, CF and RF. Wonder how the rest of this offseason will turn out.

    Reply
    • FTNS

      11 years ago

      Don’t forget the holes at 3b, and C

      Reply
      • FTNS

        11 years ago

        Might as well add SS since Simmons can’t hit

        Reply
        • Kevin Sheets

          11 years ago

          Will take his glove all day. He is still young, hopefully he can turn in to at least a decent hitter.

          Reply
          • FTNS

            11 years ago

            I can deal with one glove only player, especially at an important position like SS.

            Reply
      • Kevin Sheets

        11 years ago

        3B is Johnson. He didnt keep up with his career numbers but he still isnt bad. Career .280 hitter. Catcher is more known. Its Gattis or Betancourt

        Reply
        • FTNS

          11 years ago

          CJ was arguably the worst 3B in the majors last season (-1.3 WAR) Had a fluke season in ’13 with an INSANELY high BABIP. Gattis won’t be catching next season and Bethancourt has an abysmal .300 OBP in his minor league career.

          Reply
          • Kevin Sheets

            11 years ago

            Bethancourt is defense first. And Braves like the way he handled defense and the staff. I see Gattis splitting time behind the plate and RF unless something else happens.

            Reply
            • FTNS

              11 years ago

              You do realize he allowed 9 passed balls in 260 innings last year, more than Gattis, who was horrible in 750+ innings.
              Betty didn’t impress anyone last year, or through out his mediocre minor league career.

              Reply
              • Kevin Sheets

                11 years ago

                Can only go by what i watched during September call ups and heard about him. Have not heard the laziness that you have.

                Reply
            • FTNS

              11 years ago

              Two glove only players in the same lineup is a big no-no IMO. Betty is also known to be extremely lazy

              Reply
              • Kevin Sheets

                11 years ago

                Agreed, but they are “hoping” both improve their hitting. Not saying they will but its obvious thats what they are betting on.

                Reply
          • Dale Gribble

            11 years ago

            If some team has $7 Million to burn annually for the next 3 years on a corner infield platoon partner. For his career Johnson is a 312. against LHP. In 2014, Johnson hit 395. against LHP. Please Hart market that to other teams and hope they will bite and get rid of another bad contract Wren inked. $23 Million over the next 3 years.

            Reply
            • FTNS

              11 years ago

              Agreed, anything to get rid of him.

              Reply
              • Dale Gribble

                11 years ago

                Especially since Johnson is a well known hot head who doesn’t control his emotions well.

                Reply
          • Kevin Sheets

            11 years ago

            Even if CJs season was a fluke season, he is still a career .280 hitter. I dont think its hard to believe he could crack .300 again. You never know. Freddi kept putting him in the most oddest spots in the lineup. I will admit, CJ, is just a place holder until a better 3B comes along, but he isnt terrible.

            Reply
            • FTNS

              11 years ago

              His hitting will only get worse as he ages. His defense will always be among the worst in Baseball.

              Reply
              • Kevin Sheets

                11 years ago

                Just turned 30, i think he can hit for the remainder of his contract

                Reply
                • FTNS

                  11 years ago

                  Poorly, yes.

                  Reply
    • TimotheusATL

      11 years ago

      Gosselin @ 2B. I do agree that there’s a crater in CF right now.

      Reply
      • Kevin Sheets

        11 years ago

        Need to Gosselin full time before we can answer that. I imagine this means RF will be Gattis but dont know

        Reply
  154. Fred Hunter

    11 years ago

    BAD BAD BAD move Braves,Heyward will be a league MVP within the next 3 years in Saint Louis. He’s the top outfielder in the majors now he’s in an organization with a competent manager and will get a consistent spot in the batting order.Braves must be hoping of winning games 1-0…..HATE THIS MOVE!!!!!!!

    Reply
    • Rally Weimaraner

      11 years ago

      Heyward will be a FA after next year anyway. Atlanta knew they didn’t have the money to extend him so they traded him for a long term asset, Miller.

      Reply
    • FTNS

      11 years ago

      Except he’ll be a free agent in ’16…

      Reply
    • Cam

      11 years ago

      The top outfielder? Not one of, but THE top outfielder?

      Reply
      • Kevin Sheets

        11 years ago

        Come on now. No he is not.

        Reply
        • Cam

          11 years ago

          To which I completely agree.

          Reply
    • Dale Gribble

      11 years ago

      Look at Heyward’s career numbers year by year, while his glove never really slumps. His offensive numbers do. Like for example 20 stolen bases in 2014, only 2 in 2013 in over 100 games. I wish J-Hey well in St. Louis though, likable guy who always played with a lot of hustle, but there was no way The Braves were going to be able to pay him. They made that decision last year when they gave Freddie Freeman that $135 Million / 8 year deal.

      Reply
    • Steve Adams

      11 years ago

      Only if the Cardinals sign him to an extension that would undoubtedly elicit a shocked reaction from most fans due to its size.

      Reply
    • Kevin Sheets

      11 years ago

      Doubt he will be a Cardinal after next year. Unless he has a change of heart on what he has been asking for.

      Reply
    • Ryan Downs III

      11 years ago

      Heyward is NOT the top outfielder in the MLB. Clearly you’ve never heard of Mike Trout, Andrew McCutchen, Giancarlo Stanton, etc. etc.

      Reply
      • Fred Hunter

        11 years ago

        I’d take Heyward defensively over all of them

        Reply
  155. RippinNTearinAB

    11 years ago

    It is quite evident that those who don’t like this trade from the Braves standpoint are those who don’t watch Braves games.

    I’m happy they got rid of him.

    If you are a Braves fan, and you don’t like this deal, then clearly you are just turned on by the potential of his name rather than what he has contributed on the field.

    His WAR is high because of his defense. That stat holds defense to a high regard. His offense in reality is average at best.

    Reply
    • Kevin Sheets

      11 years ago

      I wouldnt say that. I would have preferred to keep Heyward but i know why they did this deal. They couldnt afford him. You keep hoping his bat will come around and be consistent but it never had. We kept making excuses for him. However, i do feel like he will blossom in STL, then leave for an overpaid contract

      Reply
    • Cam

      11 years ago

      The Royals made outfield defense an art form. A run saved is a run scored.

      Reply
    • MB923

      11 years ago

      “His WAR is high because of his defense”

      Career oWAR – 13.5
      Career dWAR – 7.8

      Reply
  156. JJ 3

    11 years ago

    Why people hating so much on this deal. Braves get a good young pitcher and the cardinals get the OF they needed. Heyward is going to be a free agent soon anyways

    Reply
    • Kevin Sheets

      11 years ago

      Agreed and we got 2 young pitchers. One a little less proven but nonetheless. What surprises me is how people seem shocked he was traded! We knew this was coming. We knew at least 2/3 of the OF was gone.

      Reply
  157. R.D.

    11 years ago

    The only way this makes sense to me is if Markakis has already contacted the Braves saying he’s interested in joining the organization. He’s a Georgia native who’s discussed his interest in playing for Atlanta before.

    Otherwise this deal makes me ill.

    Reply
    • Justin Bremerkamp

      11 years ago

      I think the Braves pretty much realized that they were not going to be able to reach an agreement on an extension with Heyward, so instead of losing him to free agency after this season, they get a SP with potential in return. Markakis could be a good fit for the Braves. Also, the Reds are rumored to be looking to sell. If that’s true, it may do the Braves good to inquire about Jay Bruce, who is signed through 2017 on a fairly club friendly contract.

      Reply
  158. DippityDoo

    11 years ago

    Makes sense for the Cards, have quality hold over in the outfield til Piscotty is ready in hopefully ’16 and another good piece for the bullpen.

    Reply
    • Seamaholic

      11 years ago

      Piscotty’s another good hitter with no power. That’s not what the Cards need. Their SS is their second best power guy.

      Reply
  159. Justin Bremerkamp

    11 years ago

    I like this deal for the Cards, because it takes care of RF for 2015. I do wonder if the Cards are finished with free agency this year though. They really needed to add power, and I think it’s debatable whether they’ve actually done that. Could they be looking to add power at 1B? Also, will they sign Heyward to an extension? If not, Shelby Miller is a lot to give up for a one year rental.

    Reply
    • Andy B

      11 years ago

      given the 5 outfielders they have I can’t see much being done on the bench. Just hope Scruggs or eventually piscotty can offer a right handed compliment to Adams. They still need a lefty reliever. I’d love to see Miller, but I’m guessing Duke is more likely.

      Reply
      • Rich Silver

        11 years ago

        I doubt the Cards spend +30M on a reliever. They could get Bastardo for an A ball outfielder if they really needed.

        Reply
      • dave 35

        11 years ago

        Cardinals need a power infielder maybe a guy like Mark Reynolds just come in a play 3rd or 1st…

        Reply
    • dave 35

      11 years ago

      If you don’t resign Heyward then its a bad deal…. If you was going to trade Miller then they should have went to Colorado and tried to get Carlos Gonzalez….

      Reply
      • Justin Bremerkamp

        11 years ago

        I see your point, but my guess is that CarGo, would have been much more costly in terms of prospects. Besides that, CarGo is 4 years older, far more injury prone, a much weaker defender (who hasn’t played RF by the way), and his On Base and Slugging numbers away from Coors field are alarming to say the least. I think CarGo would have been a huge risk

        Reply
        • dave 35

          11 years ago

          Probably true but I don’t just think Heyward’s bat will be enough… Hes good at defense but….. Heyward I mean he did hit .169 against lefties… So I guess you platoon him with Grichuk against lefties if he struggles against them again? So we trade Miller for platoon player?

          Reply
          • Justin Bremerkamp

            11 years ago

            I’m not sure it will be necessary to make this a traditional platoon. You want Heyward in there for his defense as often as possible. Maybe instead of removing him, you move him down in the lineup vs. lefties. Time will tell. A lot will be dependent on just had poorly he hits lefties tis season, and how good Grichuk/Piscotty look.

            Reply
          • Justin Bremerkamp

            11 years ago

            Honestly, I think Jay Bruce would have been the best fit for the Cardinals. Reds are rumored to be in full rebuild mode and looking to deal Bruce and others. Bruce is a plus fielder with and above average arm. He’s 27 and signed to a fairly club friendly contract through 2017. You can pretty much pencil him in for 30 HR and 100 RBI every year. Problem is, even if the Reds are considering trading him, there’s no way Jocketty moves him to another team in the division.

            Reply
            • dave 35

              11 years ago

              I would like Bruce but yeah no way Jocketty will trade him to espically to St Louis… But we’ll see how it plays out… I say Heyward leaves after the season is over… Someone will overpay for him…

              Reply
  160. Moose Michaels

    11 years ago

    Barring a catastrophic injury to Heyward or just a complete disaster of a season, this trade has to be seen as a coup for the Cardinals. Heyward should be able to find his power stroke again in St. Louis and find a consistent spot in the line-up card in either the 2 hole or batting clean up. Secondly the Cardinals have the financial flexibility to sign him long term. Something around 7 years/140 million sounds right for his age and expected production.

    Reply
    • ElliotMoose

      11 years ago

      I feel like Heyward is gonna get something closer to 9 years/200 million. He’s only 25 and will be entering his prime. Cano got 10 years/240 million at 31, so I think Heyward should be able to get a bit more than 7/ years/ 140 million just based on the needs of the market.

      Reply
      • john sands

        11 years ago

        He is not comparable to Robinson Cano …. sorry

        Reply
    • Seamaholic

      11 years ago

      What makes you say he “should be able to find his power strike again in St. Louis”? Cards have a miserable recent history in getting offensive production out of guys, and the park is similar to Atlanta’s. Plus they only get him for a year (and he’s notoriously insistent about hitting the open market). I don’t think this was a very impactful deal either way, since both marquee guys are overrated, but I’d probably take the Braves side.

      Reply
  161. Rookie5150

    11 years ago

    Hearing that the Mariners are making a big push for Justin Upton.. Pitching prospects involved; not sure how much validity there is to it though.
    I wonder if the Braves unload enough money in these trades, if they take a serious run at Yoan Moncada..?
    If you’re gonna rebuild might as well go big right?

    Reply
    • Seamaholic

      11 years ago

      Doesn’t make sense anymore. Braves have a full rotation now, especially if Medlen comes back. They need hitting prospects now, and lots of them.

      Reply
      • Rookie5150

        11 years ago

        That’s banking on Meds coming back from 2 TJs. I get what you’re saying though and I hope Medlin comes back next year.
        Still, wouldn’t mind adding a Paxton or a Walker to the rotation fold. (Maybe I’m hoping for too much for a year of Upton)

        Reply
      • charles m.

        11 years ago

        Braves fan trade proposal for you feel free to comment or make a counter trade. seattle receives justin upton and mike minor. braves receive hisashi iwakuma michael Saunders and gabby guerrero.

        Reply
  162. Jose Maldonado

    11 years ago

    Braves did not want to pay what Heyward wanted which I assume is in the 8-10 year 18-22 million AAV range but Braves could not also wait until the trade deadline because it would look bad if they were in the running for the division….they got what they could which are two young cost controlled arms, one with proven MLB success even if he fell off for a little. I’m interested to see what he Cards are willing to offer Heyward after the season barring a horrendous 2015.

    Reply
  163. MP$@#!

    11 years ago

    I know the Braves need pitching, but trading a young, healthy, amazing defender just isn’t worth it

    Reply
    • Seamaholic

      11 years ago

      A young, healthy, amazing defender who only has one year left before leaving for a big market team. And the Braves are not likely to compete next year anyway. Those last two bits are kind of important.

      Reply
      • Moose Michaels

        11 years ago

        The Cards aren’t a big market team. *Sigh* People always say that. They’re mid market at best.

        Reply
        • WillGio

          11 years ago

          I think he meant he’s one year away from FA, where all the big market teams will offer the largest contracts. He’s talking about after this year.

          Reply
  164. ehero55

    11 years ago

    Looks like a good trade for both sides. Walden may put Stl a little ahead.

    Reply
  165. Fred Hunter

    11 years ago

    Braves will be lucky to win 60 games this upcoming season with this move coupled with the LaStella trade,who exactly is going to get on base.Freeman will get the Bonds treatment and be pitched around since the rest of the line up is strike out prone.

    Reply
  166. R.D.

    11 years ago

    Wasn’t Tyrell Jenkins that guy from that one World of Warcraft video?

    Reply
    • Danny Phillips

      11 years ago

      Leeroy!

      Reply
  167. M.Kit

    11 years ago

    So who challenges the Nats in the NL East? I can’t see anyone now (and talk about a swing in the NL Central, RMart leaves, Heyward enters)

    Reply
    • WisBrave

      11 years ago

      Offseason is still early. My guess Marlins if they pick up a few more pieces which likely means spending more so doubtful.

      Reply
      • craig

        11 years ago

        Marlins buy for a year then sell the next

        Reply
    • Danny Phillips

      11 years ago

      Nats have some fascinating decisions facing them as well this offseason in rising arbitration rates and extension/trade candidates.

      Reply
  168. 6th Floor Management

    11 years ago

    Heyward is in a walk year and if he stays healthy might play his way into a massive contract, so getting four years of Shelby Miller for one year of J-Hey is wise. Now trading Gattis & JUpton for Taijuan Walker, Michael Saunders and Brad Miller, and signing Torii Hunter will be wiser. Braves are in a weird position to trade a lot of their roster and still contend.

    Reply
  169. Cole Hoppmann

    11 years ago

    Awesome trade Cards keep it up

    Reply
  170. David Mahan

    11 years ago

    Good trade for the Braves. They could not afford him after next year. They have Miller for 4 years. Walton was up and down this past year. Next up for trade are the Upton brothers and one of the Braves catchers.

    Reply
  171. stymeedone

    11 years ago

    It seems by the comments that the fact that Heyward only has one year left before free agency is not getting the weight it deserves. At the trade deadline, players like him get a higher return because only contending teams are involved, and if you don’t get him, someone you are competing with might. Atlanta chose to trade him now, because it would be hard to explain a trade to the fans in July, if they are competing. They might be forced to keep him and keeping him would set them back in the future, with only a comp pick to show for him.
    Atlanta did not pick up an “inconsistent,” or a “#3” starter. They picked up a 23 year old who has a HIGH upside. Its not like they got Brandon McCarthy in the deal. Miller could get a lot better, and Atlanta has always found a way to make pitchers better.
    It seems like a pretty fair trade to me.

    Reply
    • Mikenmn

      11 years ago

      I agree it’s a bit early to write the obituary. And Heyward comes with a draft-pick, because unless something horrible happens, they will make a QO for him. My guess is that St. Louis will sign him to an extension, because that’s what they tend to do with players they highly value. And Miller, if he pitches well, will get more expensive through arbitration. My question would really be whether Atlanta really shopped Heyward to get the best return, or felt they had to strike a reasonable, quick and quiet deal.

      Reply
      • stymeedone

        11 years ago

        Boras clients don’t tend to sign extensions, even with the Cards.

        Reply
  172. Mike Adamson

    11 years ago

    The Cards just have a Great front office… They robbed the Braves in this deal in my opinion. Shelby Miller is very average MLB pitcher. Heyward will sign long term while my Pirates take a chance on has beens or never was’s !!! Man I wish we had a owner and front office like that.

    Reply
  173. Mitchell Harper

    11 years ago

    You have to take in consideration that the braves picked up a definite number 2 maybe number 1 starter, but also saved 10 million. Shelby miller makes league minimum. So does the other guy they got. Walden makes 3 million and J-hey makes 7.5 mill. This is a great short term and longtime value. Don’t forget Shelby miller was a rookie in 2013 and posted a great season. He was the cardinals #1 prospect for a while. Remember when the braves traded Jd drew for carpenter? Sounds like the cards are giving us a chance for payback!!! Haha

    Reply
    • john sands

      11 years ago

      #1 starter for who?? he was the Cardinals #4 or #5

      Reply
  174. Mitchell Harper

    11 years ago

    Long term not longtime

    Reply
  175. Idaho Man, Braves Fan

    11 years ago

    Here’s the truth of Heyward: A lot of potential, but had five years to prove it. His best batting average was .277 his rookie year, and his highest home run total was 27 in 2012. He had 14 home runs in 2013 and 11 in 2014; There is no up-trend to any of his numbers. And, most disturbing, he is five years into his career and has a .227 career batting average against lefties … and .167 in 2014. The guy has speed, right? Well, he’s averaged roughly 25 doubles a year for his career. That’s not many for a speedy guy.
    Those of us who have followed Heyward for his entire career know that his glove is the only reason he’s not a platoon player. He crushes righties; can’t hit lefties at all. That’s not the kind of guy you give a 8-year, $140 million contract to–not till he can prove he can hit lefties.
    And maybe it will all come together for him in St. Louis.
    But give me four years of Shelby Miller in exchange for one year of Jason Heyward … I’ll take that deal every day of the week and twice on Tuesdays.

    Reply
  176. Idaho Man, Braves Fan

    11 years ago

    Also reminds me of a trade the Braves and Cardinals did about eight or 9 years ago, when they sent Adam Wainwright to St. Louis in exchange for one year of JD Drew. JD had what was arguably his best season of his career that year with Atlanta, and then left via free agency. Wainwright … well, he’s kind of panned out well for St. Louis, hasn’t he? This trade might work out the same way, but in reverse.

    Reply
  177. R.D.

    11 years ago

    Here’s a crazy idea: Edwin Jackson to the Yankees, Brian McCann to the Braves, B.J. Upton to the Cubs. Just swirl around the poor contract decisions.

    Reply
  178. Brian Rutherford

    11 years ago

    From a Texas Rangers (non-biased) fans perspectice, I see even steven here. Heyward’s contract plays heavy. Thinking, while his bat still has upside, and its agruable he’s moving to a SLIGHTLY easier division of pitching (Jose Fernandez, Gonzalez, Strasburg, Harvey, Wheeler, Hamels, Lee), Shelby Miller has a tinge more upside from a needs standpoint. Atlanta needs pitching more than St. louis needs an OF. You know Randall Grichuk is none too pleased. As for walden/jenkins, I’m almost confident, certainty versus upside balances out, even if due to a subsequent trade. As for fantasy impact, huge implications. Freddie Freeman should have a beer with Grichuk. Heyward in the lineup with Molina, Holiday?Strange, but could be done well. Then again, Miller is a good wager to have success in Atlanta. Call me cray, like this deal on oth ends.

    Reply
  179. SeanE

    11 years ago

    Heyward is a tremendous defensive OF, and as a Mets fan I see him play 18 games a year. The reality is the Braves had no control over Heyward beyond this season, and John Hart wasn’t going to give a 100 million dollar contract to him.

    Heyward is one of the best RF, or maybe the best in the game, but what they got for one year of him was pretty good.

    Reply
  180. smurfmonkey

    11 years ago

    You dont trade away the talent and cost control in Miller and Jenkins for a stop gap! There were much cheaper and reasonable solutions the Cards could have made if all they wanted was a stop gap. Holiday is not going to be belting 20+ HRs. His career is downward now and the only guy on the team who even reached 20 HRs was Peralta. That is a problem, I don’t care if you want to wear your rose colored glasses. Grichuk will not work out. He will be a durable 4th or 5th OFer. Piscotty has a chance because he can hit for average, but again this is not 1984.

    Reply
    • Lanidrac

      11 years ago

      You do when you also get two years of Walden in the deal. Please enlighten me, what cheaper and more reasonable solutions were out there for a guy of Heyward’s talent?

      You know, Heyward’s not exactly known for posting 20+ homer seasons either. Sure, these Cardinals aren’t going to post the same kind of power numbers as in the days of Pujols, Edmonds, and Rolen, but they still have several decent sources of pop to go along with their excellent on-base skills. Holliday may be in decline, but he’s still good for double digits for the foreseeable future as is Molina. You mentioned Peralta. Carpenter is good for about 10 a year along with a ton of doubles. Then you’ve got Adams, who’ll probably be hitting 30-40 (or maybe even more) bombs a year before too long, as well as Wong who has the potential for 20+ a year after his surpising output his rookie year. Piscotty doesn’t have a lot of power, but he does have the potential to consistently hit double digit homers and rack up the doubles. I don’t know why you’re so dead set against Grichuk’s success. He might wind up as a bench player long term, but he also has a decent chance of develop into a quality starter with a lot of power.

      Reply
      • smurfmonkey

        11 years ago

        Your whole argument is based on “probably” because you have no proof on what you are saying. The only thing you have going for you is hope. Well hope in one and mess the other and tell me which one fills up faster.

        Reply
        • Lanidrac

          11 years ago

          You have no proof either. My scenerios are a lot more likely than yours.

          If both Grichuk and Piscotty are struggling by midseason, then the Cardinals could look at extending Heyward. Otherwise, they have no need and would be fiscally irresponsible (something hardly ever associated with the Cardinals) to do so.

          Reply

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