The Tigers are known to be open to moving some veteran pieces to get younger and to shed some salary, but ESPN’s Buster Olney reports (Insider link) that Detroit’s asking prices for its top players are “so high” that rival execs wonder if they’ll actually trade anyone other than J.D. Martinez this offseason. In addition to Martinez, Ian Kinsler has been the primary name mentioned in trade rumors to this point, although there’s been speculation about players ranging from Justin Verlander to Miguel Cabrera.
Olney does report that the Dodgers have interest in acquiring Martinez. That fit between the Dodgers and Martinez is somewhat natural when considering that they struggled enormously against left-handed pitching and have been tied to another slugging right-handed corner outfielder: Ryan Braun. However, as Olney points out, the flooded market for corner bats makes it difficult to envision the Dodgers parting with a highly regarded prospect for a player that’s set to become a free agent after the 2017 season.
It’s worth remembering, too, that the Dodgers have a number of right-handed-hitting outfield options already on the roster. That includes, most prominently, Yasiel Puig, Trayce Thompson, and Scott Van Slyke. And the Los Angeles brass has suggested that the corner outfield isn’t an area of chief concern. There’s little doubt that the slugging Martinez would represent a significant upgrade at the plate, but he did also rate as one of the game’s worst defensive players in 2016 (-22 DRS, -17.2 UZR).
Olney’s report may shed the most light on Detroit’s valuation of Kinsler, whose partial no-trade clause — along with a stated demand for an extension to facilitate a deal to any of the ten teams to which he can block a deal — already complicates matters. (He’s another player who the Dodgers have shown interest in, though the team is reportedly on his no-trade list.) On the surface, he’s perhaps the most readily movable veteran, apart from Martinez, on the roster. Though he’s 34, Kinsler is coming off of one of the best years of his career, in which he slashed .288/.348/.484 and hit 28 home runs. And he’s guaranteed just $11MM for the 2017 campaign, with an affordable $10MM option for the following season. But given the relative dearth of demand for second basemen, a high asking price (combined with the no-trade factor) may make it rather difficult to line up a deal.
Kinsler isn’t the only quality Tigers player who has trade protection. Verlander, Cabrera, and Victor Martinez all have full control over their futures, and also come with rather hefty commitments given their relatively advanced ages. Recently signed free agents Jordan Zimmermann (full no-trade) and Justin Upton (can block deals to twenty teams) also have protection. While pitchers such as Anibal Sanchez, Mike Pelfrey, and Mark Lowe may be freely dealt, each is coming off of a rough year. Closer Francisco Rodriguez isn’t vested with any no-trade rights, either, but we haven’t heard much suggestion that the Tigers are interested in parting with him.
Of course, it’s still rather early in this offseason’s game of musical chairs, and other organizations with quality veterans to deal are also seemingly floating high asking prices at this stage. Detroit’s stance could certainly soften as it gathers information and names start coming off of the free agent board. While there are indeed alternatives on the open market who’ll impact the trade value of the above-noted players, Martinez and Kinsler figure to hold particular appeal since they promise to deliver impact without the necessity of a lengthy commitment.
All told, it’s tough to predict whether the Tigers will end up making drastic changes this winter. Though GM Al Avila has made no secret that the organization plans to get younger and more cost-conscious, after all, he has also made clear that the shift likely won’t occur overnight.
Puig, DeLeon, and Barnes for J-Mart is fair
I’m a tigers fan, no way LA does that. All 3 have massive potential. No way LA does it for a 1 year rental
Thank you!
GMFlores is obviously no “GM” as he proclaims. A clown? No doubt! A GM? No way in hell.
That’s a Chris Sale type of trade.
No it’s not
You’re right, Sale would cost much more than that.
heck no wouldn’t do that for kinsler and him. maybe one of your top 2 pitchers and Martinez..
More like de Leon straight up
That’s not fair at all, lol.
Those 3 could get a superstar with years left on his deal.
If Sonny Gray had another sub-3 ERA in 2016 that’s probably the package that could get him. Maybe at the deadline after he proves he’s back to normal?
You mean back to an overrated #3 starter whose ERA’s in a pitcher’s park hid his actual takent level?
For 1 year????? Doubt they’d get one of those guys let alone all of them.
So this is why we haven’t heard much
I don’t think the Dodgers will really push for Martinez. They’ve shown they value defense and he isn’t that good in the field. I think they’ll be in on free agent outfielders and also are probably talking that Braun trade again. I also think they are more interested in Dozier than Kinsler because of the age and Kinsler being older wants an extension. All I keep hearing is the Dodgers are interested in this guy and that guys. Seems like they are interested in everyone but I don’t even think they’ll make a bunch of moves this offseason because Friedman and company have shown us they are all about getting younger.
JD’s defense isn’t really that bad. His range isn’t all that, but he does have a great arm.
-22 drs and -17.2 uzr is horrendous defense. You can’t get too much worse
He was also injured this year. I you look at his defense the past couple of years, he’s actually been solid
Yeah, can we get past the idea that “good arm = good defense”, when it absolutely doesn’t. Matter of fact, its been proven that having a noodle arm and great range is so superior to having a cannon arm it’s not even funny.
JD was a gold glove finalist in 2015. I agree last year’s numbers don’t look great, but his “bad defense” is very much overstated.
When did Braun become a defensive standout?
Tigers could seriously build a godly farm system if they focus on trading guys like Kinsler, JMart, Verlander, Miggy, Upton, Zimmermann. Upton and Zimmermann though would need to be packaged with another, or else I don’t see a trade happening due to money and performance.
They’re not necessarily trying to have a good farm system, they’re trying to stay competitive and get younger at the big league level. That’s probably why their asking price is “so high” when regarding their top guys
When did the goal of a baseball team become trying to “build a godly farm system?” The goal is to WIN A WORLD SERIES. If you are a non-factor, you build the former to get to the latter. When your Major League team is fairly stacked, and you miss the playoffs by ONE game, it’s not the primary goal.
This is the truest response I’ve seen so far.
Verlander and Miggy will be Tigers until they retire. It’s just silly to think otherwise. Zimmermann took a freaking paycut to play in Detroit, unless he’s being trading to the Brewers, it’s simply not in the cards.
Hard to say what’s up. When you are willing to trade someone, you generally set higher prices unless you simply want to dump players. There’s been some speculation in the Detroit media that any move will be to get the Tigers under the luxury tax.
Part of it comes down to who is calling the shots: does Mike Ilitch or his son Chris have the final say.
I’m glad. This means they won’t be dumping any players, which is great news for tigers fans
Yes, it is!!!!
Tigers are doing their due diligence right now to find out what they can get for each player. Once the market is set they will make a few moves. Teams are looking for short term contracts, and fit. Once some of the free agents are moved the price will be more clear.
Slider is correct you always ask for the moon when trading a player. Let the market adjust it to where it belongs. no GM is going to trade a player on the first offer they get. Tigers are in a good position not needing to make a trade if its below what they want.
“no GM is going to trade a player on the first offer they get.”
Billy Beane traded Donaldson on the first actual offer he got, after he told people to not make offers.
* No smart GM.
Interesting JD graded so low defensively when last year (2015) he was one of the gold glove finalist. I wonder how much this has to do with his injury and how much actually has to do with drop in ability?
Because GG is very overrated.
Sure it’s overrated, but his point is that jd’s injury may have been the reason his defense was below his career norms
Defensive metrics are horrible. They are worse than nothing because the get misused. Wild variation in the same player from year to year should be your first clue to ignore them.
The year he was a finalist, teams were running on him, and he was throwing them out. His assist rate has gone down, whether they have quit running on him, or he has lost some accuracy (he didn’t appear to). That will definitely affect his ratings.
That’s because the Gold Glove has to do with how well a player hit that year.
Yes, its extremely stupid award. Maybe one of the dumbest in all of pro sports.
Evidence? This has been around for years but the data doesn’t seem to support it. For the short version, look at this years GG AL finalists. They are not the best hitters at their position and many of them had down years at the plate.
Giancarlo Stanton contract for Puig, Alex Wood and DeLeon?
Even if the Marlins were considering trading Stanton, no way they do that.
You’re looking at two top prospects and other quality prospects included
Avila’s comments after the season made everyone think that a fire sale was going to happen. But the payroll situation pretty much was one that would naturally play out over 2-3 seasons, which echos his more recent comments.
If you are not doing a salary dump, a fire sale, then it would be best to extract maximum value if you are going to trade someone. And trading veteran players for prospects does not always work out. Ask Miami how trading Cabrera went for them? Best of that group the Marlins got was Andrew Miller, and he did not become a star until after he left Miami. So trading the best the Tigers have for a bunch of prospects is no guarantee that we’ll get guys that can keep the Tigers winning..
It is early that is for sure. A handful of trades and free agent signings so far. Plenty of time to see how this plays out. World Series ended just three weeks ago.
Agree completely. Tiger fans and media have become accustomed to at least one big free agent signing every year to improve the team. This was a heads up to lower expectations. The salary was always structured to begin declining after 2017.
The issue is I see is that the way the Tigers were doing business is not a way to stay viable long term. Selling the entire farm and buying big free agents may give a few years a viability, but then it goes away and you’re stuck with the poor contracts. Look at the yankees, with all that money, just clearing out of the bad contracts to aging stars like A-Rod. Or the Phillies who have been pretty bad and saddled with contracts like Ryan Howard for quite some time. The new way is young, cost controlled players who are either in or coming up to their prime. Then you plug the few remaining holes with those free agents/trades.
Look at the cubs, Most of their team came up through the farm. The entire infield except catcher, and two outfield spots were guys who came up through the system or were traded for as prospects. Most of their rotation was young/cost controlled pieces they traded for.. They only really purchased at high cost Lester, Heyward, and some bullpen help.
That said, I don’t think the Tigers need to burn it down; but they do need to retool a bit. I think this offseason they need to move either Upton or JD(moving upton could free up money to sign JD). They have at least one major hole that needs to be filled in CF, unless they’re sold on Jacoby Jones being ready for the big show full time(I am concerned with his plate discipline). . The rotation seems solid. The bullpen, on paper, seems alright-ish. Infield is set minus a platoon partner catcher. And then outfield needs either a CF and if one of the corners is traded, they’ll need a new corner outfielder.
They can still be very competitive. And the payroll will naturally reduce itself over the coming 3 years with JD, Pelfrey, K-Rod, Lowe, and potentially Upton coming off the books after this season, Vmart, Sanchez, potentially Kinsler after the 2018 season. There is no reason for a fire sale, but if there are moves to keep Detroit competitive after this year/next year… AlAl would be a fool to not listen.
The new way is the old way. The Tigers were close and added Darrell Evans as a FA. Only the Yankees have tried to build thru FA for a sustained period.
As to the Tigers maintaining long term viability, they have been a factor for a decade. I would think that qualifies. Are they closer to the end of the run than the beginning? Absolutely. I just don’t think they are at the end just yet.
Tigers have good but very expensive players–the type you pay for in free agency, because there’s no talent cost. The situation they are in now requires them to be opportunistic–wait for a need (injury, etc) to emerge.
And the talent, even with numerous injuries, was good enough for them to be in the playoff hunt until the last day. They can be opportunistic and patient.
It only takes one… but the asks have been so high that its nearly impossible to make meaningful deals. The Braves ruined the world of trade expectations, so good for them but bad for every trade post Swanson. This is an MLB that really needs some trade movement. So many bad situations out there and so little creative options being floated. Bad for baseball, imo.
Who ruined it? The team that asked high, or the team that said “yes, we’ll do that”? Not the Braves fault.
My guess is and it’s just my opinion only J.D. Martinez and Justin Verlander are the only high profile players the Tigers move this winter. I actually could see the Red Sox working a deal for Verlander.
Verlander has full NTC and said he plans to retire a Tiger and be a 1-team player. No idea why he’d change his mind.
Maybe as a veteran he wouldn’t want to be part of a team in flux which is what the Tigers are going to be. Also maybe the appeal of having a legit chance at a WS title could be the thing that changes his mind. Who knows, but it wouldn’t be the first time a veteran has said he wanted to retire with one team only later on to change his mind and accept a trade.
For the last ten years, and currently, the Tigers have left spring training with the goal of winning the WS. Maybe JV thinks he is already on the team with the chance. If he was on Tampa Bay, or Colorado, your argument might be more appropriate.
Move along folks. Nothing to see here.
“Of course, it’s still rather early in this offseason’s game of musical chairs, and other organizations with quality veterans to deal are also seemingly floating high asking prices at this stage.”
So… the whole article is stating the Tigers are doing what every team is doing. I guess that could be considered “news” since Avila is only in his second off season. Anyone surprised that this is not going to be a Miami type sell off, just wasn’t paying attention.
It’s still relevant info. I’m just trying to add some grains of salt, since people can take headlines and run with them.
I agree with Mr. Todd. It sheds light on the nature (the speed) at which the tigers are trying to make that transition. With ownership transfering over to Illitch’s son, he may have wanted payroll drastically cut this year, meaning it makes it harder for Avila to ask for a huge return. I appreciated the insight.
Never meant to question the relevance of this site. I am questioning ESPN’s coverage. The three year period was actually mentioned quite some time ago, and is not new information. Obviously a headline stating “Tigers doing what every team is doing” would not generate much attention. Yet that is essentially what ESPN’s article is saying.
Most fans overate their teams’ prospects; none worse that the Dodgers. Puig is a nut case, whose as likely to run naked around Dodger Stadium as to have a productive year….Barnes is a spare part (useful I’ll admit because of his flexibility) but that’s it….Deleon is a suspect-prospect.
Dodger fans ask yourself; if all that young pitching is that good, why are they looking for pitching??????
I doubt that gets JD, especially in a contract year……but I CAN envision DD taking Verlander AND Miggy (who seems to follow him everywhere anyway) off their hands and tossing them a prospect or two. That would likely make the Red Sox prohibitive favorites. and I can see the two waiving their no-trades to join Red Sox nation.
I think Avilla’s a smart guy who will use the freed-up capital to keep them competitive. It’s not an especially strong division, even with the Indians.
The dodgers have one of the best farms still, after watching Seager and Urias graduate last year…
The Red Sox fan base seems to think every prospect is a hall of famer, and it only gets worse when a couple actually prove to be good players. ( I will now hear about those players, while the others become forgotten as yesterday’s news.)
Ex: Will middlebrooks.
De Leon, Barnes, and puig for Sale WILL get done. End of discussion
No way it would. Two top 100 prospects, one which will most likely have to move to the BP and a player who is young but has been declining and is a mental head case won’t get a top 10 pitcher in baseball with one of the best contracts in baseball. That isn’t close to enough.