Mariners general manager Jerry Dipoto acknowledged to reporters at the GM Meetings that his club has interest in right-hander Shohei Ohtani, though like other GMs, his comments were mostly vague (link via Greg Johns and Joe Frisaro of MLB.com). “We, like 29 other clubs, have scouted him extensively,” said Dipoto. (Johns and Frisaro note that Dipoto and VP of scouting Tom Allison watched Ohtani pitch in Japan this past September.) “…He’s obviously an incredibly talented player and whoever gets him will be quite happy, I’m sure.” Dipoto wouldn’t comment on whether the team is giving serious consideration to a reunion with Ichiro Suzuki, who is now a free agent. While Dipoto suggested that Ichiro’s free agency “opens a door,” he went on to add that he’s “not entirely sure” it’d be a priority, given the team’s needs at first base, in center field and on the pitching staff.
More from the division…
- Fresh off a World Series victory, the Astros would like to supplement their bullpen with a left-handed reliever, reports Jake Kaplan of the Houston Chronicle. Kaplan lists Mike Minor and Jake McGee as two potential targets for the ’Stros, noting that Minor’s frequent outings of more than one inning in 2017 could appeal to Houston. So, too, could the fact that he thrived in his limited time as a closer and has no discernible platoon split, thus giving Houston a possible safety net in the event that Ken Giles’ struggles carry over into the 2018 season.
- The Rangers will let right-hander Matt Bush spend the offseason preparing for a potential rotation spot in 2018, tweets Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News. Bush, who had shoulder surgery last month but is expected to be ready for Spring Training, turned in strong numbers as a reliever for the Rangers in each of the past two seasons. Overall, he’s worked to a 3.08 ERA with 9.4 K/9 against 2.6 BB/9 with 0.87 HR/9 in 114 innings. The Rangers won’t make a definitive decision on his role for another couple of months, however, Grant adds, which could indicate that Bush’s fate will be somewhat determined by the other additions GM Jon Daniels and his staff are (or aren’t) able to make this offseason.
- The Yankees asked the Athletics for permission to interview manager Bob Melvin for their own managerial opening but were rebuffed, reports Ken Rosenthal (via Twitter). John Shea of the San Francisco Chronicle writes that GM David Forst on Monday called Melvin “absolutely the right guy” to be guiding the Athletics’ rising core of young position players. Forst suggested to reporters that the A’s will look to bolster the bullpen and to add a right-handed-hitting corner outfield bat this offseason, noting that a rotation upgrade is a possibility but “not a priority,” Shea continues.
- Athletics catcher Bruce Maxwell plead not guilty to assault and disorderly conduct charges on Tuesday, reports Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle. Maxwell was arrested on Oct. 28 and charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and disorderly conduct after allegedly waving a gun at a Postmates employee that was making a delivery to his house, per Slusser. There’s no trial date set for now, and a hearing wouldn’t come until sometime in early 2018. MLB will conduct an investigation into the matter, but no announcement of any discipline would come until after a hearing (or a theoretical settlement).
Forrest Whitley for Brad Hand?
Whitley is, arguably, the top pitching prospect in baseball. There is no way they would, or should, do this.
According to MLBPipeline there are 12 pitching prospects ranked higher than him. And even if he were the top pitching prospect in baseball he’s still just a prospect, a guy who MIGHT help the Astros at some point down the road. Brad Hand WILL help the Astros now.
Won’t happen. Don’t be fooled by rankings. Whitley was not even in the top 100 prospects before last year as he had just come out of high school, but completely dominated all the way to AA ball. His stuff is outstanding – throws in the upper 90s- and he’ll be the best pitching prospect in baseball by mid-season – the guy is a Verlander-type starter, and 6-7 to boot. Brad Hand is a journeyman who had one good season. Stros will go for Minor or McGee as free agent instead.
If the Astros are giving up on either Whitley or Tucker, they’ll need a lot better return than Hand.
Completely ridiculous that you would refer to Hand as “a journeyman who had one good season.” He’s a pitcher who the Marlins refused to put in a situation where he could succeed and once the Padres got their hands on him they put him in the bullpen full-time where he flourished. He has had two great seasons, not one, and there is no reason to believe he can’t have another.
And as for Whitley being the best pitching prospect in baseball by mid-next season, you don’t know that. He is good but better prospects than him have busted in the past. No reason to think he is off limits for Hand.
It’s not happening. Not for Hand. Probably not for anyone that’s currently available as a pitcher. Remember, Tigers had to settle for prospects Franklin Perez, Jake Rogers and Daz Cameron for a Hall of Fame ace in Justin Verlander plus the Tigers had to throw in Juan Ramirez who is a pretty good minor leaguer himself. Realistically, maybe the Astros would give the Padres a Francis Martes, or Colin Moran or J.D. Davis, maybe Cionel Perez or Hector Perez for Hand. And that’s a maybe if Luhnow is feeling generous. The 4 guys off limits unless it’s a trade for Stanton or someone of that caliber are Tucker, Whitley, Bukauskas, Alvarez. But really, they don’t need Hand – they can go get Minor or McGee on a free agent deal. Worst case they can go get Tony Watson or Kevin Siegrist who are both equivalent to Hand in terms of talent.
You obviously didn’t read my last comment. Verlander’s trade value was greatly hampered by both his age and being owed $28m a year. Not the case with Hand. The Astros aren’t getting him for any of the guys you mentioned, especially not in a one-for-one trade. It would have to include one of the four guys you listed as “off limits.” Tucker is unrealistic and the Padres would probably have to throw in a prospect of their own to make Whitley for Hand work but Bukauskas or Alvarez are certainly not untouchable for a reliever of Hand’s caliber.
Hand is better than any of the alternatives you mentioned and won’t cost as much money.
Whitley is definitely not as good as Michael Kopech, Alex Reyes, or even AJ Puk though. There’s probably around 15-20 or so SPs in front of him. Absolutely no expert is saying he’s #1, he’s just #1 in your eyes, not anyone else’s.
At first I thought maybe I was being unrealistic but once you said Bukauskas was off-limits for Hand I knew you were just overvaluing your prospects. Bukauskas probably might not even be enough on his own to get Hand. Better prospects have been traded for worse relievers and the team trading the prospect had to throw in something else.
All the guys you mentioned were already thought of as being in the top 50 when they came out for the draft. Whitley is the youngest of the bunch and was raw, and is zooming up – no pitcher has moved faster than him up the top 100 board. Say what you want, I’m just telling you that the guy has flat out dominated. At age 20 (he just turned 20 in Sept!!), he absolutely dominated AA hitters – 26 strikeouts in 14 innings. In class A he struck out 117 in 77 innings. All this year. Moved 3 levels – low A, high A and AA just this year! And he’s just gotten started. My point is that the Astros will not trade a talent like that for Brad Hand.
You mean like how the Red Sox wouldn’t trade a talent like Anderson Espinoza for Drew Pomeranz who had even less of a track record of success than Brad Hand? And look at how Espinoza has done since the trade.
100% agree
Pomeranz was a starter with more team control than Hand. It was an in-season trade. Whitley is a better prospect than Espinoza Hand is a great reliever, but neither Tucker nor Whitley will be traded for his two remaining years of control. A trade involving Bukauskus or Alvarez could make sense based on value, but I doubt the Astros do so, because they really don’t need to. Their pen was 6th in FIP and 3rd in xFIP while losing essentially no one of consequence, with a lot of young arms that could take a step forward. Sure an impact lefty would help, but given the apparent asking price for Hand, I expect they’ll look elsewhere.
AJ Puk and Forrest Whitley were drafted in the same year, Puk as a college player and Whitley out of HS, they both ended their season at the same level, where Whitley outperformed Puk (in admittedly a smaller sample size) Reyes just had TJ, and Kopech doesn’t have the command or secondaries Whitley does. They’re all great prospects, and you might get different opinions on who is the best, but Whitley is absolutely in that top tier.
Not even a comparison. Espinoza was no where near a prospect as Whitley is now, and the Red Sox acquired a young starter who won 17 games for them this year. Espinoza = Cionel Perez, and the Astros are unlikely to give up Perez for Hand. Just saying. I’m sorry. Hand is a good pitcher. Just ain’t happening.
The Astros roster is filled with home-grown talent. Whitley is going no where.
Hand has two years of control. Pomeranz had two after the season in which he was traded was over. Espinoza was ranked #13 when he was traded while Whitley is ranked #35 as of me typing this comment. And if the Astros don’t need an impact lefty why does this article explicitly talk about them adding one?
Yeah, Espinoza was a BETTER prospect than Whitley is now. He was ranked #13 in baseball according to MLBPipeline when he was traded. Cionel Perez doesn’t even hold a candle to what Espinoza was when he was traded. Don’t compare the two. And you have just cited wins to gauge how good a pitcher is which means every comment you have ever made and ever will make is now irrelevant.
That is fine. Hope you like facing Hand in the playoffs next year.
That’s the midseason top 100 list, right? I suspect Whitley’s performance in AA might have bumped his stock. If the Red Sox valued Pomeranz as a TOR, the two and a half years of him would make him more valuable than the 2 years of Hand, and i’ll reiterate that the fact that the Red Sox were acquiring him midseason bumped his value, that you ignored because it didn’t fit you narrative.
Do the Padres need Eric Hosmer? There’s an article talking about that too.
Also the Astros faced Kahnle, Chapman, Morrow, and Jansen in the playoffs this year and fared just fine.
In much the same way, Hand getting some saves under his belt and the catastrophic bullpen meltdowns of the 2017 postseason might bump his trade value.
Seeing as the Astros just slaughtered a who’s who of relievers during their World Series run, I doubt they’ll be up at night over Hand.
There is absolutely no reliever available that is worth a blue chip like Whitley or Tucker. Whitley is the best pitching prospect Luhnow has produced under his tenure, and he’ll be needed when Keuchel leaves after next season. Zero, zero, zero chance he is moved, and certainly not for a freaking reliever.
Whitley is the Astros #2 prospect. You will not got any teams #2 prospect for Hand. I doubt you’ll be able to get a Top 5 prospect for hand. Luhnow knows what he’s doing and the ring he’ll get is proof.
Better prospects that Whitley get traded for relievers all the time
The Yankees got the Cubs’ #1 prospect last year for a reliever. And a rental one at that.
BTW, Bleacher Report just made an article about each teams untouchable prospect, and wouldn’t you know it, Whitley is that guy for the Astros.
Yes, you can find useful idiots in many FOs. But just because bad trades happen doesn’t mean your bad trade is going to.
Whitley is a top 25 overall prospect already. I’d sure like to see what some of these other top 25-for-reliever trades were, so I can have a nice laugh at them.
Cubs are top 3 payroll team. They can afford to treat their prospects like currency, and that trade was made at the deadline.
There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for Houston to bizarrely overpay so much now, when they can get someone just as good (and likely better) than Hand at the deadline for their A- grade starter prospect.
Oh really? What relievers are better than Hand right now? And which ones will be available at the deadline?
And repeating as World champs is the reason why Houston would do that.
It doesn’t need to be a reliever they trade for. There will be premium starters and bats available as well, both of which can provide much more value than a single reliever can. THAT is what Houston would save its premium ammunition for. There is nothing in Luhnow’s trade history that would even hint at some ridiculous move like that.
Houston doesn’t need to go all in on pen upgrades when the team has so many starters that it will have to probably release one just to open up a roster spot. The team won the World Series because they smartly deployed their best pitchers (mostly starters) at the right moments. And you’re suggesting that they burn arguably their best prospect to fix a (relative) weakness that can just be papered over by penning starters? Did you even watch the playoffs?
Houston’s chances at further championships are maximized by holding on to as many future wins as possible while ensuring they get into the playoffs now. That’s roster construction 101. Trading Whitley for a reliever is the exact opposite of that. Lunhow’s too bright and math-oriented to fall for it.
The future is NOW for the Astros and Hand will help them NOW. Whitley won’t. Like I said before, better prospects than him get traded for relievers all the time.
In 1991 sure, and it landed the Red Sox on the worst trades of all time list with Jeff Bagwell.
The Astros have their division all but locked up going into 2018. No other team has a chance unless Houston suffers catastrophic injury luck, which Hand won’t do a thing for.
Once Houston gets into the playoffs, it can lean on its deep, deep stable of starters to counter the soft spots in its pen. That was a strategy long predicted in 2017 by anyone who followed the team, and it proved to be a winning one. They don’t need a premium pen piece to do it again.
Seriously, Hand would probably improve their overall WS chances next year by less than a single percentage point. Maybe half a percentage point.
Whitley, who will be ready to help in 2019 at the latest, will add much more than that for several seasons. Again, paying for important marginal wins in the present and banking as many future wins as possible is as basic as it gets for MLB roster construction. When you have the division locked up by a good 8-10 games, the absolute last thing in the world you do is overpay for anything. And that goes quadruple for a pitcher who’ll throw 70-80 innings.
If a schlub like me can figure this out, then Luhnow and his supercomputer of a front office knows where the team stands, and it ain’t at the line for Brad Hand.
“When you have the division locked up by a good 8-10 games, the absolute last thing in the world you do is overpay for anything.”
If that’s the case how come the Cubs gave up a top 10 prospect in baseball for two months of Chapman when they had the division locked up last year?
Dude, come on. This is elementary stuff.
What do you think the critical difference is between a team that can float a top-3 payroll, and one that will probably always be 10-15 by the same metric?
Here’s the answer: The former can afford to spend prospects like currency because they have actual currency available to fix any mistakes. Houston does not have the luxury of burning prospects like money-rich teams do.
And the Cubs likely viewed Gleybar as superfluous, given the presence of Addison Russell, whom they surely expected more from this season.
The Astros will have a gaping hole opening up in the rotation after next season by the name of Keuchel. It would be beyond stupid for Luhnow to trade away the one sure thing he has from the farm that can fill that spot.
You need to do some research on how these teams operate before you assume their needs, wants and optimal moves.
Don’t act like the Astros don’t have money to spend. It may not be as much as the Cubs it’s still plenty.
“It would be beyond stupid for Luhnow to trade away the one sure thing he has from the farm that can fill that spot.”
No prospect is a “sure thing.” Not one. Especially not a pitching prospect. You’d be astonished to learn how many “sure thing” prospects my team has had in this century that ended up busting.
Right, and relievers aren’t a sure thing either in a 2-4 inning sample, which is what would be expected from Hand in the WS. It’s just as likely (much more likely, actually) that he will melt down in a single, but critical, inning than Whitley busting entirely. Your calculus goes both ways, buddy.
Houston’s priority is extending its core. That will take every bit of payroll flexibility it has, and more. You must have cheap performers like a Tucker or Whitley to make those extensions feasible.
Again, this is all basic roster construction stuff. It’s completely uncontroversial among anyone who writes on this stuff for a living.
Hand has shown to be capable of going multiple innings and pitching well so your last post just helped my point rather than hurting it.
Whitley’s future has a wide range of outcomes. The one you are suggesting is the most optimistic, by no means a guarantee or even the most likely.
Other teams want to extend their cores as well and they still trade “cheap performers like a Tucker or Whitley” if it means filling a need. That is also “basic roster construction stuff.”
You clearly didn’t understand what I was saying if you believe it helped you make any point.
All relievers are volatile. You think Hand has some superpower that makes him invulnerable in the postseason – one that far better relievers like Kimbrel and Jansen apparently don’t possess? It’s perfectly within reasonable expectations for Hand to blow a critical moment and provide negative value in the playoffs. It’s perfectly within reasonable expectations for Whitley to perform at least as an average starter, baring injury. It’s far less binary than you’re making it, which suggests you haven’t done the research.
I’m sorry man, but you’re not getting this. Hand isn’t a guarantee of anything, because nothing is a guarantee in the crapshoot that is the MLB playoffs. You’ll never see a GM like Luhnow add .5 – 1 percent to WS probabilities by burning, arguably, his best prospect.
Like, I can’t think of anything less likely than a Whitley for Hand swap.
Yes. It’s also not at all past reality for Hand to not blow any critical moments and for Tucker to fall well short of the massive expectations you have placed on him. Last year, Hoyer added .5-1 percent to his WS probability by trading his best prospect and other GM’s have done the same thing. I’m not saying Luhnow will or should do it, but it’s not nearly as unrealistic as you think it is.
Bottom line, no one is getting Hand without giving up an impact prospect. It won’t necessarily be from the Astros but the return the Padres utlimately get for Hand will likely be one that you think the other GM is stupid for giving up.
It depends on where the team is on the win curve, their depth chart and their current/future payroll obligations. I wouldn’t be surprised if a team overpays for Hand. I would be extremely surprised if that team was Houston, as it doesn’t make sense in any capacity. It would be stupid if Luhnow traded a top prospect for any reliever during the offseason. Houston has the enviable luxury of waiting out half the season to assess what its needs really are. Perhaps a couple of its young arms step up and serve admirably in the pen. That premium prospect cash can be used on something else, then.
Luhnow has never made a major trade during the offseason. The closest was swinging for Brian McCann last year, using a pair of B type pitching prospects. Relative to them, Whitley is an entirely different animal.
But my expectations of him are measured. His 50 percentile outcome is something like a bit better version of Bud Norris. Six years of that is too valuable to give up for a negligible chance at another WS win. And he has a significant chance to be a true TORP. He’s showing more than McCullers did at a younger age. It’s difficult to overstate just how valuable is likely perceived by the organization.
If you’re quoting Bleaher Report then you’ve lost this one pal!!!
The Astros faced Kimbrel, Robertson, Chapman and Jansen…still won the World Series, I don’t think they are going to worry about facing Hand.
And what if they don’t step up? Then Houston will have to REALLY overpay at the deadline. And if Whitley is anything like Bud Norris you aren’t missing out on much by trading him.
If you honestly think that Hand could ever cost more than Whitley, then you are smoking something I want some of.
If Houston is ever interested in dealing Whitley, they can always get something more valuable than Hand. Every rebuilding team in baseball would fall over themselves to snag a prospect like that, and most of them have something better to offer than Hand.
But this conversation long passed the ridiculous threshold. Only in your wildest dreams will Whitley be made available for a reliever. Earnestly suggesting otherwise is the kind of rosterbation that can get you arrested.
Where did I say Hand would cost more than Whitley? I actually said the Padres might have to throw in a prospect of their own to make it work! Work on your reading comprehension bro.
“Only in your wildest dreams will Whitley be made available for a reliever. Earnestly suggesting otherewise is the kind of rosterbation that can get you arrested.”
Switch out Whitley with “Torres” or “Frazier” and you will get comments that other people have posted on here in the past. And guess what? It happened anyway.
You just said that Houston would have to pay even more if they waited until the deadline. Work on your speaking comprehension, bro. Bud Norris is around his average outcome (and is worth 12 or so WAR over six years, which is worth a good bit).. Geez guy, do you just pick a couple words out to focus on. Maybe it’s not my reading comprehension that needs addressing here.
You’re just repeating the same boring three or four things over, and I’m the fool that got trapped into your circular argumentation. I’ve addressed several times why your “but other teams paid this” line is poorly reasoned, but you’re the kind who just waits until the other person stops speaking until they can talk, and someone who has to be right even when everyone can see how crazy you’re talking.
I’ve wasted too much time on this. Shame on me.
They will have to pay more at the deadline if their bullpen falters in the first half than they would now. There’s more urgency in that scenario.
Previous trades set a precedent for what a player is worth. The best comparable for a hypothetical Hand trade would probably be the Giants’ trade for Will Smith last year, in which they gave up a prospect ranked in the 50-60 range and a graduated top organizational prospect who was blocked at his position. Now, if you think that the Giants overpaid there, that’s fine. But those two combined are at least close to as valuable as Whitley, not to mention the Astros possibly getting a prospect back in the trade.
Surface reasoning. Do better.
Not surface reasoning, simply how the trade market works.
Ha, sure buddy. The next time I need a chuckle, I’ll be looking for one of your trade proposals.
And the next time I need to laugh my ASS off I’ll come looking for your overvaluation of your team’s prospects. Whitley hasn’t even made the Majors yet and you’ve already paid in advance for your plane ticket out to Cooperstown in 2043 so you can watch him get inducted as a unanimous first balloter.
Get used to it! It happens all the time with this guy. You just happen to be the unlucky one to fall into the abyss with him today. Good Luck !
Dumb ass
Ryan the know it all making deadline trades Nov
Name calling so adult like
Lol short bus lol
That list is like 3 months old. Whitley is going to be higher than that, and they had him untouchable for guys better than just a reliever
Hahaha I’ll say it again. Better prospects than Whitley get traded for relievers all the time. I actually know quite a few Padres fans who would be mad if they traded Hand for Whitley straight up.
Yeah, I don’t think a guy who pitches one inning in a playoff game is going to make the difference in the Astros repeating, especially when the glut of starting pitching they have reinforced their bullpen this season will still be there the next.
Which explains why the Astros continue to be linked to Brad Hand
Why would the Astros be that desperate for Hand if they just won a title? They can offer a package around Yordan Alvarez , Colin Moran and if the padres dont want that they can go look for somewhere else.
So they can repeat. And if that’s all they’re willing to offer I hope they like facing him in the playoffs next year. Hand to the Astros would have to start with Whitley or Bukauskas. Tucker is unrealistic but those two aren’t.
Those guys are also unrealistic. Alvarez has as a high of a ceiling as Tucker he just isnt close to MLB ready yet which is perfect for the Padres situation
No they aren’t. Plenty of people would say that Whitley by himself isn’t enough for Hand. Personally, I’d definitely make that trade as a Padres fan and maybe even throw in a lower prospect like Sam Keating.
Relievers who are about as good and controllable as Hand went for similar returns to the ones I am suggesting last year. Even if Alvarez has as high as ceiling as Tucker (which I doubt) he also has essentially no floor. That’s why he isn’t ranked among the top 100 prospects.
You are beyond crazy.. Those guys weren’t even on the table for Wilson, Britton or any other reliever at the deadline. There’s no way the Astros trade Whitley, Tucker or Bukauskas… Whitley is the #1 untouchable and is on the same path as Kershaw and Grienke were through the minors… (only two to get to AA faster than him and it was barely) Hand isn’t that much better than McGee or Minor to make it worth trading any of those three..
Don’t talk to thatdude69 in 2043. He’s already made plans to fly out to watch Forrest Whitley’s induction into Cooperstown that year.
Sorry…I had to make an account to reply because of how dumb this comment is. The astros are not trading an elite ace caliber pitching prospect for a reliever. No matter who it is.
Better prospects than Whitley get traded for relievers every year. Clint Frazier, Gleyber Torres, etc.
A prospect that would not be moved for Verlander, Darvish, Quintana or Gray will not be moved for Brad Hand lmao
Brad Hand isn’t owed a bunch of money like Verlander and isn’t a rental like Darvish. Look at what other teams gave up for relievers two summers ago. The Giants gave up Phil Bickford, a prospect in the 50-60 range on MLBPipeline and Andrew Susac, a graduated top organizational prospect, for Will Smith. If Smith can net those two, Hand netting Whitley isn’t at all past reality, especially if the Padres throw in another prospect like Keating or Paddack.
Whitley is a bit much for a guy like Hand
That’s why I suggested the Padres might have to throw in a lower prospect of their own like Sam Keating or Chris Paddack.
I can assure you 100 percent the Astors will not trade Whitley for Hand and not regret it 1 bit
Maybe there is a reason those “other teams” aren’t WS champs are related to giving up top prospects for mediocre relievers. Tucker and Whitley are both untouchable. End of story. Find another fool of a team.
My memory’s a little bad. How did Tucker and Whitley do in the 2017 World Series?
Tucker and Whitley did just as good as any Padre in the World Series…..just sayin
Yes, avoid answering the question because you know I’ve backed you into a corner.
So you want a 20 year old that throws 95, with 5 average to plus pitches, that’s a 6’ 7” workhouse, for a above average reliever? Miller and Chapman got what they did for a couple of reasons. 1) it was at the trade deadline, where it’s a sellers market and each team was looking for that “guy” to win them the World Series. 2) each of those 2 are among the top 5 best relievers in baseball. Hand isn’t in the top 10, and with the opportunity to sign minor, Watson, McGee, or trade for Britton, no way they give up Whitley for hand. You accused astros fans of overvaluing their prospects, but your over valuing your guy so much more. The astros won the World Series because they held on to their prospects, not traded them away for a reliever like hand. And as for your argument that they didn’t play in the World Series, they’re only 20. Name a 20 year old that played in the World Series. Or name me a time that any current Padre player has played in the World Series.
Like I said, we got a better prospect than Whitley last year (or at least he was better at the time than Whitley is now) for a guy with even less of a track record than Hand. Hand isn’t just above average. Look at his numbers. They are bordering on elite. He is certainly a top 10 reliever in baseball and much better than any of the alternatives you mentioned except Britton and there is a good chance Britton will need Tommy John surgery sometime this year.
“The astros won the World Series because they held on to their prospects, not traded them away for a reliever like hand.”
You say that the Astros won the World Series because they hung on to Whitley and Tucker, but how can that be the case when neither one played in the World Series?
“Or name me a time that any current Padre player has played in the World Series.”
Trevor Cahill and Matt Szczur were both members of the Cubs when they won the World Series and played for the Padres this past season. Of the two, Szczur is still with the Padres.
Let’s see six to seven years of if everything goes wrong an above average starter who can give you seven innings or a guy who will primarily be used as a lefty specialist who will only give you one inning a night. Dude, learn market values, Brad Hand isn’t Aroldis Chapman, Wade Davis or Andrew Miller.
Err… what? If you look at the stats Brad Hand is capable of going multiple innings and getting both lefties and righties out.
Forrest Whitley isn’t as good as the return the Yankees got for Chapman or Miller. He is better than Jorge Soler but then again, Hand has twice as much control as Davis did when he was traded.
Ryan. you and I are both smart enough to know that when Petro said “the Astros won the World Series by holding onto their prospects”, he was referring to Correa, Bregman and all the other players on Houston’s roster that have been home grown and developed into a strong contingent.
The 2016 Cubs and 2017 Astros won the World Series because they had young, talented players on the rise. Trading for a reliever to add to that core is smart but not necessary. For example, the Astros didn’t trade for a reliever of Hand’s caliber and ended up winning it all.
IF the Astros want to keep contending for the foreseeable future they should hold onto their top tier talent so they can fill the gaps when some of the current players leave. 6 years of Whitely & Tucker starting in 2019/2020 is better than 2 years of Hand starting now.
Furthermore, Hand is a great reliever but he doesn’t have nearly the trade value Chapman and Miller had. Don’t believe me? The Padres told the other teams that they wanted a Chapman/Miller return for Hand last July. No takers. Then the Padres lowered their offer and still no one wanted him for that price. And that’s even considering the fact that Hand had way more team control than Chapman.
Btw, if you decide to reply, don’t just cherry pick the couple of sentences from which you want to reply. Either reply to my entire post or don’t at all.
You keep pointing out how better prospects than Whitley were traded. But Gleyber was ranked #36 at the time of the trade, while Whitley was ranked #35 midseason, and I’d wager he’s done a fair bit to improve his stock since then.
Of course, trading for Hand might not be the difference in repeating but this article does state that the Astros are looking for an impact bullpen lefty who is capable of going multiple innings and closing. Hand certainly fits that billing. I never said Hand was worth Tucker and with Whitley I suggested Hand+ for Whitley. That is not a Chapman/Miller return. Chapman returned a top 20 prospect in baseball as a rental and Miller returned a top 20 prospect and another prospect in the top 100. Personally, I think I’d rather have two years of Hand than two months of Chapman, but obviously the Cubs placed a premium on the 2016 postseason.
Ranked #17 on MLBPipeline as of the end of the 2016 season. A few guys above him may have graduated between the trade and the end of the season but no, he was not ranked #36.
I understand what you’re saying but if Whitely is worth Hand+ and the Astros are looking for a lefty reliever, not lefty reliever+, then they shouldn’t offer Whitely for Hand. That’s just logic.
Also, it makes more sense for the Astros to keep Whitely in case Keuchal walks next year.
The idea is that they’d get back a lesser prospect than Whitley in the trade along with Hand. I was just spitballing trying to think of ways to make it work.
Dude! Don’t fall for the trap! Get out now before it’s too late! You’ll be sorry for even talking to this idiot! Wait
Does Dad let you drive slow on the driveway on Saturday?
and what’s the difference with those 2? They were traded at the deadline when teams are more desperate
“at the time of the trade”
guess what, he wasn’t traded at the end of the season.
Yeah the giants had to give those up because it was the only prospects of value they had, I don’t know if you realize it, but their system is 29 out of 30.
Lunhow wants to be the Cardinals of the last decade and the only way that works is by being smart and keeping the pipeline full of good prospects to replace outgoing stars.
Giving up Whitley for Hand does not guarantee or even make the odds of repeating significantly better of repeating, so why would Lunhow give up an ace caliber potential starter who could pitch 5-7 innings each start for a reliever. You were saying this crap last trade deadline as if Hand would of made the difference for them this postseason.
You are not holding the keys to a Ferrari, you are holding the keys to a durable, flexible hummer that has terrible gas mileage. Deals like what you are purposing were made famous by the Astros. Anderson for Bagwell anyone?
So yeah, the organization isn’t going to be a moron like others and trade one of their top prospects for a guy who who can only throw one inning and the need for a reliever can be filled internally and in free agency.
Hand can go multiple innings and if you guys don’t give up impact prospects for him, someone will. I suggested Whitley cuz I figured Bickford + Susac combined were about as a valuable as Whitley and if they aren’t, the Padres could throw in a prospect of their own to make it work. If not Whitley they could shoot for Bukauskas, but you’re not getting an impact bullpen lefty on the cheap.
The pen was a source of weakness for the Astros in 2017 and wasn’t the reason they won the world series.
Will Harris will be turning 34 next season, Musgrove has turned in 2 subpar seasons (era, fip, xfip) all have him in the 4 range., Tony Sipp has turned in 2 subpar seasons and will be 35 (era, fip, xfip all put him in the 4+ range) and lefties torched him. The Astros need to make bull pen upgrades if they hope to repeat.
More importantly looking at the Astros vs lefties from their pen here is how they faired according to fangraphs. Compare these to Hand’s .150/.253/.338
Musgrove- .261/.314/.448
Devenski- .110/.178/.236
Harris- .233/.263/.342
Sipp-.243/.304/.548
Hoyt- .284/.333/.463
Feliz – .276/.345/.533
Considering the lefty specialist is a dying concept it’s not too concerning. Also Musgrove’s stats are inflated do to a few ineffective starts where the team figures him out the second time through. Feliz is recovering from a dead arm, Hoyt is hardly a key piece to any Astros bullpen and Sipp is going to be waived.
Yes, Devenski is their death on lefties member out of the pen, and he should be deployed as such. Much of his late season struggles stem from overuse against righties, which he does not stifle to the same degree. There, there’s Houston’s lefty specialist, and they didn’t need to burn a top prospect to get him.
The Astros’ bullpen woes are radically overstated. They were a top 10 pen during the regular season, and there’s good reason to believe that the playoff baseballs (which several teams were complaining about) adversely affected Houston’s most imposing weapon in Giles, as he couldn’t command his slider with the slick ball.
Regardless, what matters isn’t an ace pen, but an ace pitching staff overall, and there Houston has little to worry about. They have so many starters that they can pen some of them for the playoffs and shore it up.
The Astros aren’t paying through the nose for any bullpen help this offseason. The rosterbation is better spent elsewhere.
So Devo is better than him? And if you compare Musgrove’s line as a reliever only: .176/.241/.300, that makes two pitchers who have outperformed him, with Harris only close behind. The Astros would love to have Hand, but I’d be shocked if they were willing to move Whitley to do so.
This is his pet project to post Brad Hand trade proposals…
You’re probably right.
Not just this topic! He’s ALWAYS like this. Beware! Just ignore the Troll!
“Just ignore the Troll!” -brucewayne
Classic…
lolololol
Neither Dipoto nor Allison can scout, they accumulate and hope something sticks
Rather the Padres shoot for Bukauskas and Moran to complete a Hand deal if they are dealing with the Astros. Never been a fan of 1-1 deals, regardless of the prospect involved. See Anderson Espinoza trade.
Ideally, the Padres net a legit SS prospect out of wherever they trade Hand though so preferably they deal Hand elsewhere.
Honestly I would be fine with that trade next deadline, not in the offseason, but it will have to have been a significant need for the Astros at that point in the season. Baustakuas is the last top draft talent Lunhow will get his hands on for a while, barring any signablity issues.
You misspelled Giancarlo Stanton. Seriously dude, that is the only guy the Astros would even contemplate trading Whitley for this offseason and it would require money coming back. If Whitley was “just a prospect,” who “might be good.” You wouldn’t be looking to trade hand for him.
The guy has advanced through the minors at a pace only matched by Clayton Kershaw at his age.
Hand has no value in terms of trading as there are options available that don’t require giving up stud prospects. The last deadline was the most value you would get out of Hand and the Padres like every other decision they have made failed drastically.
Lol, let’s not hail Whitley as the next Kershaw just yet.
Stanton’s trade value isn’t all that high when you consider how much money he is owed.
There may be other options available that won’t require giving up stud prospects but none are as good as Hand.
“The last deadline was the most value you would get out of Hand and the Padres like every other decision they have made failed drastically.”
Funny. That is exactly what people were saying two years ago when Preller didn’t trade Craig Kimbrel at the deadline. Apparently Brian Cashman offered Jorge Mateo for him and Jedd Gyorko (who Preller was trying to get rid of at the time) then acted like WE were the dumb ones for not taking that trade. Then come the offseason Kimbrel gets traded for an absolute HAUL. And now the Yankees get to face him 19 times in the regular season. It’s possible that with Hand accruing several saves after the deadline and the colossal failure of every team’s bullpen to pitch effectively in the postseason, teams will change their minds about not paying up.
Yeah, Lunhow isn’t a moron like Dombrowski operating like it’s 2006 and throwing prospects for a short run is worthy everything. Just look at what is left of the mess he created in Detroit.
Kimbrel is another planet compared to Hand and frankly Preller is lucky to even still have a job after the failures he’s endured there.
And the Astros eliminated the Red Sox by tearing through Kimbrel. Meanwhile, the Yankees made it further in the playoffs, pushed Houston to the absolute limit and held onto their best prospects in the process.
Now, who has the better outlook going forward? Hint: It’s the Yankees, precisely because they didn’t make the kind of moves you’re advocating for on behalf of the teams you want to fleece.
I know Kimbrel is better than Hand but you were saying that Hand’s trade value will never be higher than it was at the deadline. People were saying the exact same thing about Kimbrel two years ago and they ended up being dead wrong about that.
The Red Sox were better than the Yankees this year and likely will be for at least two more years. The Yankees’ continued success largely depends on whether or not Aaron Judge can sustain his 2017 production. He seems like the type of player who could hit the sophomore slump like a train.
The Red Sox were absolutely not better than the Yankees this season. Not by any metric that is more than superficial. And they are projected to be worse than New York going into next season unless they make some serious moves.
No serious baseball thinker would take the Red Sox’s situation over the Yankees going forward. I have no love for New York at all, but that is the best run FO in baseball. They have a WS contender next season with ridiculous youth and reinforcements available. Meanwhile, the Red Sox will have to spend like mad to make up for doofus Dombrowski’s excesses.
Why would they be worse than New York? What serious contributors are they losing or the Yankees gaining? And like I said, I could easily see the Yankees taking a step back next year now that the book is out on Aaron Judge.
I’m not going to run saber 101 by you. Red Sox had a slappy mediocre offense that greatly outperformed its raw numbers. And New York’s bullpen is the best in baseball, with only the Indians within seeing distance.
If Boston breaks the bank for a JD Martinez, then maybe they’ll be even going into next season. Maybe. I doubt it, though.
And of course that says nothing about where the teams stand going forward. New York is going to be a juggernaut as soon as next season possibly, because it didn’t give into burning prospects, even though it could. You’ll find that all of the current super teams abide by this mantra.
The Red Sox have had a consistently great offense 2 years running now and as far as I know aren’t losing anyone important. New York’s bullpen can’t win games unless you give them leads to hold and they didn’t do that quite enough to overtake the Red Sox this year. Like I said before, the Yankees better hope that Aaron Judge can sustain his 2017 production.
“You’ll find that all of the current super teams abide by this mantra.”
The Cubs sure didn’t abide by it when they traded Gleyber Torres. Or the Indians with Clint Frazier. Or even your Astros with Franklin Perez.
2017 Red Sox: 92 wRC+ (22nd)
They were significantly below average last season. They were the worst power hitting team in the AL. I was thrilled when Cleveland overtook Houston and absorbed New York in the ALDS. Boston was a cinch compared to the Yanks.
And, you know, the Red Sox had this guy in 2016 you may have heard of. Name rhymes with Bavid Bortiz.
2017 Yankees: 108 wRC+ (2nd)
Not even close between the two. You can take 20 percent of Judge’s production away and they would still run laps around Boston.
2017 Red Sox: 3.91 xFIP
2017 Yankees: 3.82 xFIP
New York’s pitching was underrated, likely because legit ace Severino has flow a bit under the radar. Sale carried his staff this past season. They better hope he can do it again, because that’s what it will take to break even with New York.
There’s probably no way they catch up to New York hitting-wise, unless their young guys start clicking for real, or Judge disappears. The former is more likely, but probably not that likely at this point.
Boston’s future under Dombrowski is dark with the Evil Empire finally bringing all its weapons to bear.
And yet, they finished with the better record
If that’s as deep as the thinking gets here, I can see where these hilarious Hand trades are coming from.
Yes, how dare I not be as bearish on the Red Sox and as bullish on the Yankees as you.
It ain’t about being bearish or bullish. It’s about understanding a stat that’s deeper than “record.”
You’ve got a lot to learn, dude. Your trade ideas are the kind that get GMs fired and run out of the league.
The Sox already lost Ortiz. You can say they will be worse in 2018 than 2017 because of that. They already didn’t have him in 2017.
Judge repeating his 2017 output is questionable. Both ROY’s had great seasons but some serious holes in their swing that smart pitchers will exploit.
No matter how underrated the Yankees’ pitching is, it still underperformed the Red Sox. Chris Sale has already proven to be more than capable of pitching like that year in and year out.
Yeah, I’ve already shown how wrong you are, but you won’t read, so what’s the point. You are a living example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Yep. The fool will always be a fool and he is always the last to know. Look in the mirror to see an image of one.
Picked that one up from experience?
Realized it from talking to you
Don’t be too hard on yourself, now.
It’s okay, maybe someday you’ll be able to keep up with the big boys
I warned you! Now you will never get rid of the troll! You already fed him too much already.
Don’t talk about yourself that way brucie!
Maxwell should be in jail
Why is that? Because he was accused of a crime? Guess he shouldn’t get his day in court, huh? I REALLY hope you aren’t an EMT.
Because the word “should” is a word of opinion not subjectivity.
Opinion and subjectivity are the same thing
meant objectivity (spell check)
Downvoted for speaking the truth. cubsfan2489? outinleftfield? padreforlife?
I bet it’s the same guy with 4 separate accts down-voting everyone’s comments and up-voting his own.
Based on the amount of evidence given, he’s looking at 5-15 years.
Because you’ve seen it first hand?
I’m glad “you’ve” seen the REAL evidence as opposed to the allegations of what happened. No need for a trail, right?
did I say I’ve seen the evidence?
Arizona is strict when it comes to aggravated assault. Their weakest offence is 18 months minimum.
He’s saying based off of everything we have heard, he’s making a guess of what will happen to him.
Why?
It is sad that Maxwell has chosen a life of crime over his MLB career. Laws are to be followed.
Well, they didn’t apply to Chapman or Reyes or…well, pick any one of a hundred other guys.
I like Maxwell, and I though the had a lot of potential, but the A’s aren’t the kind of organization that will turn a blind eye to these charges. I expect them to cut him loose, but to try and get him into rehab so he can either continue his career down the line, or at least live a fulfilling life outside of baseball.
Lock him up and give him 3-5 years and he will have plenty of time to think about his actions
You think a three-to-five year contract extension would solve this serious matter? The dude hasn’t even had 400 MLB PA’s yet. I’d wait to see where this goes before the Athletics make any proposals of that regard.
lol
^
I’ve thought for a while that the A’s should put Semien in LF. I feel he could become a plus defender out there. He’s busted his tail to become a better SS and has improved dramatically, but I think the team is best served getting better defense there, and moving him to LF (I imagine he’d be huge upgrade defensively over Davis) and just letting him focus on mashing. I think Cozart is a FA A’s could go after and if they do not land him start Pinder there until Barreto is ready. I think the greatest reason the A’s did better at the end was the improved defense the young guys bring. Putting Semien in LF and Davis at DH frees up Healy to be dealt.
I agree on the Semien assessment. His work ethic reminds me of Alex Gordon, a player who transitioned to the outfield and became a gold glove winner. But I don’t see how the A’s would backfill SS. Cozart is not their type of free agent signing and they don’t have an obvious in house answer.
Thanks for the reply. I’m curious if you see Barreto as an answer at SS long term and just not this season? Or do you see him as a 2B replacing Lowrie?
Oakland is looking at him at 2B long term and have considered CF temporarily if needed.
In my opinion, the A’s would be better served to put Barreto at 2B because of his inability to consistently make the routine plays at SS. He is a guy that I would love see work with Omar Visquel because he has the range and arm to be special if only there was some sort of mentor to help him develop.
or Wash..but we got rid of him sadly
Don’t sleep on Yairo Munoz, he’s another good bridge SS option. Sheldon Neuse might hit his way onto the team really quickly next season and doesn’t really have a place, but is a decent SS currently, so Chapman-Neuse-Lowrie-Olson potentially works fine. Either are fine options to the Mateo/Barreto/Merrell/Allen SS group coming soon. Martin the defense wizard in the mix too. Really interesting group of SS prospects Oakland have there, you’d think 2B, CF, and LF could come from this group too.
We’re in a very weird situation where we’ve been gifted with a whole bunch of players who are very athletic, have strong arms and hit well. I could us simply not having an everyday right handed hitting outfielder, and using one of Pinder, Munoz or Neuse in the outfield.
I would love for the Mariners to land Ohtani. Seems like a perfect fit. I’d also love to see Ichiro back with Seattle, but that’s mostly nostalgia speaking…
He’s a perfect fit on 30 teams….
I could see a one day and retire contract for Ichiro when he’s ready to retire. That may not be for some time if he has his way.
I don’t see how Ichiro wouldn’t be able to land a one year contract somewhere in the show. I also don’t see why the Mariners wouldn’t sign him because he is a decent backup outfielder and they don’t have any young guys speeding down the pipe who would be blocked by Ichiro.
The M’s have interest in Ohtani. In other news the sky is blue.
Melvin is the best skipper the A’s have had in a very long time pure and simple!
Matt Bush! How insanely talented is this guy? With his wrap sheet it would have been easy to write him off. But here he is getting a shot at cracking the rotation in the show. Wow, only in a America.
Matt Bush in the rotation is just laughable. He’s a one trick pony coming off shoulder surgery. Surely the Rangers aren’t that stupid but it wouldn’t be the first dumb move they’ve made.
thanks for using pled. most writers use pleaded. just remember to spell it right next time.
Good thing Melvin is a lot younger than ol’ Girardi.
Melvin was born in 1961 and Girardi in 1964. Girardi just looks older.
Reading all those Hand proposals reminds of how last year of Jose Quintana and how the Astros had to trade for that guy. They didn’t, and got a better deal and better player in a Verlander
The White Sox did end up getting an overpay for Quintana, even if it didn’t come from the Astros