Two and a half months after GM Ross Atkins vowed to find pitching that could “contribute in significant ways,” the Blue Jays have formally announced the signing of one of the best pitchers on the market, left-hander Hyun-Jin Ryu, to a four-year contract. The Boras Corporation client will reportedly be guaranteed $80MM, which will be paid out evenly at $20MM per season. Ryu’s deal doesn’t have any opt-out provisions but is said to contain a partial no-trade clause.
The news ends a spirited market for Ryu’s services, as at least six teams (the Dodgers, Angels, Braves, Padres, Cardinals, and Twins) were all known to have some degree of interest in the southpaw this offseason. While all of those teams were either playoff clubs in 2019 or are planning to contend in 2020, it was the rebuilding Blue Jays who made the big strike, signaling that their own effort to return to contention is coming sooner rather than later. The Jays were known to be looking at both the top tier and the lower tiers of the pitching market, though the signing still comes as a surprise, given how Toronto’s previous acquisitions had been more modest.
Ryu joins Tanner Roark, Chase Anderson, and Shun Yamaguchi as newly-acquired members of Toronto’s rotation, completely overhauling a starting staff that was expected to be a major point of emphasis this winter. Yamaguchi could wind up in the bullpen if the Jays go with some combination of in-house candidates Matt Shoemaker, Trent Thornton, Ryan Borucki, Anthony Kay, or Jacob Waguespack for the final two rotation places. Star prospect Nate Pearson is also expected to make his big league debut at some point in 2020, so one of those rotation spots could ultimately be earmarked for him down the stretch, or the Jays could ease Pearson into the majors as a reliever.
While Pearson may be the ace of the future, Ryu is now firmly the ace of the present. The lefty finished second in NL Cy Young Award voting last season on the heels of a league-best 2.32 ERA and 1.2 BB/9, as well as a 6.79 K/BB rate, 8.0 K/9, and 50.4% grounder rate. ERA predictors weren’t quite as impressed (3.10 FIP, 3.32 xFIP, 3.77 SIERA) with Ryu’s performance, while his modest 90.6mph fastball finished in the bottom 11th percentile in both fastball velocity and spin rate.
On the plus side of the Statcast coin, Ryu was also one of the league’s best pitchers in limiting hard-hit balls and exit velocity, and his .263 wOBA was only slightly lower than his .281 xwOBA. Despite the lack of fastball velocity, Ryu still had the 26th most effective heater of any qualified pitcher in the sport according to Fangraphs’ Pitch Value metrics, while his changeup was one of the ten most effective pitches in all of baseball in 2019.
Perhaps most importantly, Ryu also tossed 182 2/3 innings last year, his highest workload since his 2013 debut season in MLB and the first time he’d topped even the 126 2/3 inning plateau since 2014. Ryu had only a couple of minimal injured list stints for minor neck and groin soreness in 2019, as opposed to the much more serious setbacks that plagued him earlier in his career. Shoulder and elbow surgeries limited Ryu to just a single game in 2015-16, he missed close to three months in 2018 due to a torn groin, and IL stints for foot and hip problems limited him to 126 2/3 IP in 2017.
This injury history and Ryu’s age (he turns 33 in March) were reasons why MLBTR projected him to only land a three-year, $54MM deal, despite his superb 2019 campaign and his overall strong track record in 740 1/3 career innings in the majors. The Blue Jays could have been compelled to go to four years to convince Ryu to join a team that didn’t offer as clear a path to immediate contention as some of his other suitors.
Even with Ryu signed, it remains to be seen if the Jays will emerge as a threat to return to the playoffs after three straight losing seasons. The team will be counting on its young core of Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Lourdes Gurriel Jr., Bo Bichette, Cavan Biggio, and Danny Jansen to all take steps forward, while more experienced hands like Randal Grichuk (who had been Toronto’s highest-paid player prior to the Ryu signing) and the newly-acquired Travis Shaw will need to improve on mediocre 2019 performances.
The Ryu signing also re-aligns expectations for the rest of the Jays’ offseason. On paper, this could be Toronto’s version of the Cubs’ deal with Jon Lester prior to the 2015 season — the big-ticket veteran pitching acquisition that indicated the rebuilding Cubs had enough faith in their up-and-coming young team to go for it after a lengthy rebuild. If the Jays are serious about challenging for the postseason as soon as 2020, more substantial veteran upgrades could be made to center field, the bullpen, the first base/DH mix beyond Shaw and Rowdy Tellez, or even the rotation. Closer Ken Giles was widely assumed to be a trade candidate, but now the Blue Jays could perhaps keep Giles for the final year of his contract in order to keep the ninth inning locked down.
The Jays’ current 2020 payroll (as per Roster Resource) projects to be just under $122.2MM, so considering that the 2016-18 clubs all finished the season with payrolls in the $164MM-$167MM range, GM Ross Atkins could have more spending room for further moves. Ryu is the third-highest contract even given out by the franchise, topped only by Vernon Wells’ $126MM extension in the 2006-07 offseason and the five-year, $82MM free agent deal for Russell Martin prior to the 2015 season.
Ryu is the latest arm to leave what has been a scorching hot market for free agent starting pitchers. Returning to MLBTR’s Top 50 Free Agents list, Alex Wood (at #39) is now the highest-ranked starter still on the board, as the 14 pitchers ahead of him have all found new deals before Christmas. As Heyman notes on Twitter, the many teams still looking for rotation upgrades could now be forced to explore the trade market, which could lead to a flurry of deals before Opening Day.
MLB Network’s Jon Heyman first reported the deal (Twitter link). MLB.com’s Jesse Sanchez reported that Ryu would receive a partial no-trade clause. The Toronto Star’s Gregor Chsholm reported the annual breakdown.
Well this was unexpected on my end.
…and everyone else outside of Toronto.
Probably unexpected by them too.
Smart move if the alternative was to trade with Boston. Why should they help Boston be able to spend big again in 21? Only concern I have is the fourth year.
Also glad he’s off the market as remaining teams will have to again consider Price as a trade option.
Why can’t the jays also go after price? They still have a low payroll despite their 2 big signings and with 3 years left he works perfectly in terms of payroll flexibility with the kids being cheap for those years
Is the fourth year so different from the third? Or even the second or first for that matter? If he misses a lot of time he misses a lot of time… not like it will have happened because he suddenly turned 35.
I’m looking at it as they didn’t want to help Boston which will demand a premium before trading intra-division, Baltimore excepted. All thing equal and he’s traded to the NL.
Why are people worried about “helping” Boston. They aren’t going to do it for free. If they can get a good deal go ahead. Who cares if it is Boston
The 4th year is most likely what got him to sign there – don’t you think?
I wouldn’t say he had a mediocre season since he had his career high in home runs and 230-250 ang hitter is just who he is. Also his OBP is right around 290-300 as usual too. It’s just that he is a mediocre player.
I was referring to Randal Gritchuk being mentioned as having a mediocre season and he needed to “step it up” I think it read?
The clock has started on most of the Jays top prospects, with others soon to be joining them this year. If ever there’s a time to lock up high performing veterans over the next 4-5 years, now is it.
While I should probably only speak for myself, I’m gonna go ahead and assume most feel the same way.
LETS GOOOOOO! Blue jays just put everyone on notice, don’t sleep on the jays. Not saying this puts them in a definite playoff spot but as a jays fan I’m excited!
What does the notice say?
It says that for 100 innings in 2020 Ryu will be a stud. Then he’ll need to rest up for 2021. I kid of course. Or do I?
OPEN YO DAMN EYES LUC! Should I be more specific?
It’s nice to be excited. Enjoy it as long as you can.
Y’all still going to finish 3rd in the East.
Notice…. that you’re a 500 club now?
Notice that is rebuild hit the accelerator button… maybe mike trout can learn how to pitch for the Halos too? Don’t be salty because you guys missed out on all the pitchers
Ummm…that would be 4th.
I think 3rd is still a generous prediction.
Like I said… not saying this puts us in a playoff spot. It says to every other FA and organization that the jays are ready to start taking the next steps forward … I wish we had more people with adequate IQs
jays should have started full rebuild!
I don’t think you need to be explaining yourself — if I were a Jays fan I’d definitely be excited about the moves they’ve made thus far. And I do think they’ve already got a chance at going on a run for a WC spot next year — like you said I don’t think this (anywhere near) guarantees them a playoff spot. But I also don’t think it’s out of the question anymore — they added Shaw today too, who assuming he bounces back is a nice add in my opinion as well. I’m a Red Sox fan — but I’ve got to tip my hat to the Jays this off-season they have really made some nice moves, that in combination with their talented young core in their lineup and I think Jays fans have plenty to be excited about.
@FishyHalo
That’s a whole lot better than being a doormat at 67-95.
It is still possible that Toronto bring back Price too for a low minor and Boston pay down his contract. Having Ryu and Price as the 1 and 2, with Yamaguchi, then Roark and Anderson as the 5th pitcher is a good rotation. Waiting in the wings in case of injury are Borucki, Reid Foley, Waguspeck, Thornton, etc that can fill in if injuries occur. There is no point in trading Giles now and he can close many games, changing the landscape of the AL east. The team needs a center fielder, bullpen help, and a first baseman and if they obtain those, it will be an exciting year in Toronto, even if they finish third in the division. The team can see where they need to improve in 2020 for 2021 now and enter contention. Pearson will also debut in 2020 and if he pitches to expectations, the Jays would then have three top starters leading their rotation, with a solid team behind them. Isn’t that what the fans have been screaming for all along?
Enjoy Chan Ho Park 2.0
Being Korean is about all they have in common
I think the Jays and Orioles will pit up a solid fight for last place.
Price is not going to a division rival for what you said. If that’s the return, Price will be sent to the NL.
Jays will finish 2nd or 3rd in ALE this coming year! Most NL to AL pitchers tend not to have similar years cause most parks are hitter friendly…remember that one knuckleballer we had several years back?! What was his naaaaame?!? The only benefit of Ryu will be him not Having to hit.
bobaddiction. they will go after price but also have been intended as part of the deal. The Jays will give up a solid prospect and consume prices contract
@luclusclano it says to everyone that Ryu will be spending time on Toronto’s IL from now on.
Bold prediction: The Jays will still go after Price but also have Andrew Benintendi as part of the deal. The Jays will give up a solid prospect and consume all of David Price’s contract
It’s definitely a good start. I think we still need 2 outfielders to really be considered a legitimate wildcard contender
More likely fourth unless Boston continues to nosedive
Leaving the Sox with 0 outfielders in 21. Don’t see that happened
That’s not how it works… the jays don’t give up a solid prospect and eat 92 million dollars. If they got beni then they would have to eat it all, the only way Boston gets any decent prospect back is by absorbing at least half of price’s contract
I see more and more now clevinger and lindor going to LA.
I don’t think so because Friedman doesn’t like to trade the amount of prospects needed to land both of them.
Ditto
Does this make just about the first Christmas Boras won’t have much to do?
Yankeepride, I think the AL East may give the Evil Empire some competition, they have a good team. But the Jays don’t have the genius of Cashman.
Really?!? The evil empire doesn’t need the genius of cashman…I COULD RUN THE YANKEES! They pay the luxury tax every year cause they have more money than DOG!
Dog the bounty hunter?
If your phone doesn’t ring…It’s the Yankees.
binarydaddy
The Yankees didn’t pay the luxury tax a couple/few years ago. They ducked under $208MM to reset the tax. And they aren’t 1st in payroll many years. And no, you couldn’t run the Yankees. Especially not when they’re setting the IL record. It would have been easier for you to run the ’18 Red Sox at $246MM. But you still couldn’t have done it.
Genius might be a stretch. A bit of savvy and unlimited budget make making moves a bit easier. Helps that their ‘white whale’ grew up a fanboy.
They got Didi for nothing Hicks for nothing Voit for nothing Urshela for nothing Chapman for nothing Lemahieu for next to nothing. Their money had nothing to do with any of those moves.but I guess all the Cashman haters think they would’ve made all those moves if they were GM
You forgot that they also got Gleybor Torres for nothing and they just resigned Chapman, so it didn’t cost them anything to obtain most of the young players that take the field.
Cashman is no genius.
Takes away a destination for David Price and drove up the value for all the other lesser pitchers who remain
Eh.
Dodgers options dwindling
Dodgers will pull off a trade
Having given themselves no other choice. Trying to be the optimist I hope this means they are confident about getting Clevenger.
Current Dodger starting rotation depth
Buehler 3.23 era in 182 innings last yr.
25 yrs old with 5 yrs of control
Kershaw 3.03 in 178 innings.
31 yrs old with 2 yrs control
Maeda 4.04 in 158 innings.
31 yrs old with 4 yrs control
May 3.63 in 34 innings
22 yrs old with 6 yrs control
Urias 2.49 in 80 innings.
22 yrs old with 4 yrs control
Gonsolin 2.93 in 40 innings.
25 yrs old with 6 yrs of control
Stripling 3.47 in 90 innings.
30 yrs old with 3 yrs of control
I do have a feeling that the dodgers will add to this group at some point but it would appear to me that they’re finally in a position to let some of their talented youngsters(May, Urias & Gonsolin) take on some real innings this upcoming yr.
There is certainly room to add a vet that can eat some innings and provide the dodgers with some cushion to work with but I think that’s a pretty dang talented group of 7 to start from…
Depth doesn’t win in October, the top three starters do.
October is the one month Kershaw doesn’t win in
Hmmm that’s a questionable comment.
Yes, but having timely hitting and a shutdown bullpen certainly help a lot as well.
Wait, are you describing the Yankees?!?! That’s what I’m talkin’ ‘bout.
Ryu has always been a stud when healthy enough to be on the field. The sad truth is since L.A. signed him in 2013 he has made 30 starts once, his Rookie year. He has pitched well in big games and the Playoffs, but the Dodgers had him for 7 years and Ryu missed 3 years of that contract with shoulder surgery and other injuries. If we would have had a healthy Ryu in 2015 to slot behind Kershaw and Greinke maybe we beat the Mets and take out the Royals in the World Series. Same goes for 2016 if we had a healthy Ryu to go with Kershaw and Hill we could have beat the Cubs and Indians. And if Ryu had his innings built up enough to start in 2017 we might have had him not Darvish in the World Series against the Astros. Darvish got lit up in both starts. He gave up like 5 runs in game 7 in the 1st 2 innings. Then Kershaw replaced him and shut them down , but the damage was already done. With Ryu getting a start things might have been different. I love Ryu but 4 years $80 million is alot. Dodgers have alot of pitching depth in Kershaw, Buehler, Maeda, Urias, Stripling, May, and Goslion. I see big things from Urias, Goslion, and May in 2020. But if the Dodgers were to get Lindor, Betts, or Clevenger some of those arms would be gone. Lindor and Clevenger would really add alot to the roster. Kershaw, Buehler, Clevenger, Urias, and Maeda would be a great rotation. And Lindor SS, Verdugo CF, Bellinger RF, Turner 1st, Muncy 2nd, Seager 3rd, Pollack / Joc LF, Smith C, Pitcher is a fantastic line-up that could bring the Dodgers their 1st W.S. title since 1988. L.A. has a great team with alot of talented young guys and a top 5 farm system. The front office is focused on adding elite talent to the roster regardless of position. So we could trade for about anyone or we could just let our young guys keep coming up year after year. Joc, Seager, Bellinger, Verdugo, Urias, May, Smith, Lux, Beaty, Goslion, etc….. We keep bringing them up each year and they are making impact immediately. Seager should finally be healthy in Spring training for the 2st time since his sophomore year. Hopefully he gets right back into his offensive ways that had him get ROY and finished 2nd in MVP as a sophomore. With Smith, Seager, Turner, Muncy, Lux and maybe Lindor the Dodgers should have one of MLB’s top infields in recent memory. And with Bellinger, Verdugo, Joc, Pollack, and maybe Betts that’s on of the top outfield in Mlb as well. So I think we will be fine without Ryu and do hope he is healthy and deals for the Blue Jays
Cool story Bro
18 pages… Front and Back!
No you didn’t loose to the cubs because of RYU
lol I’m a Sox fan and hate the cubs it was because you didn’t trade for Ryan Braun and in game 5 of a 2-2 series you had a career backup catcher choo-choo or whatever his name was from Philadelphia batting cleanup
Same Dodger fans stuck in Friedman mode. Shoulda, coulda,woulda, and won,won ,won but still have all these prospects. Still didn’t ,havent, won’t. Longtime Royals fan. We cleared the few top prospects we had and won a World Series. It called balls. LA doesn’t have them. Friedman thinks they are smarter that everyone. O-31 says he isn’t
Good post. I agree with a lot of this. I would rather have Bellinger at CF though and Verdugo at RF. Bellinger is by far your best athlete. Verdugo has the better arm. Bellinger can cover more space. He’s your poor man’s version of Trout. Dodgers haven’t had a true leadoff hitter in a really long time so Lindor helps.
“2st” hahah
Agree on Dodgers SP depth, but need a third quality starter for the playoff run. Maybe one will emerge from this group. Honestly I don’t see why the Dodgers need to trade now. If they need an arm in July, they have the assets to make the trade.
“Maybe one will emerge” is the kind of reasoning used by teams with marginal playoff hopes and constrained resources. This should not be the Dodgers after seven consecutive postseason failures, a 31-year championship drought, and four million tickets sold to fans who have every reason to expect a lot better plan than hope that something will emerge. In that context it’s just a lame excuse for doing nothing, when something is clearly needed and the resources are there to do it.
Dodgers still have seven solid in=house options for the 2020 starting rotation, with Buehler, Kershaw, Maeda making out the top three. May, Urias, Stripling, and Gonsolin to compete for the next two spots.
The Dodgers should still with the NL West with that rotation. They do however, need a stronger number two starting pitcher for the playoffs. If one of their in-house options does not emerge as a stronger number two, they have until July to trade for a better option. So I do not think the Dodgers will feel pressured to get something done until July rolls around.
They never feel pressured. Maybe that’s the problem, not the solution.
Agreed that there is no need to panic. I do think that they would prefer to add a difference maker starter that they can slot in at the #2 behind Buehler, or even at #1 and let Buehler slide to #2. And hope that one of the younger guys can develop into a very strong #3. The rotation right now is good enough to get you to the playoffs and they’ll look to add a strong starting pitcher and/or another bullpen piece or starting lineup bat by the trade deadline via trade.
Wowow
Hot damn the blue jays are pissing around this offseason!
Aren’t… lol
Are was funnier
Good money wasted for the Blue Jays aren’t ready to compete.
@bradthebluefish
Who cares? Isn’t it something to just “be better”?
Baseball talk has revolved to acting as if we’re accountants for teams. Even if they won’t sniff a playoff spot there’s something to be said more simply making improvements to put a better product on the field. You have what? 5 years to try and win before your young guys might become free agents? I bet you his teammates are going to be happy.
I am with you.. gets tiring people being negative when a team acquires a good player and people think it’s pointless. If everything was that predictable there would be no point in playing the games.
this is the sentiment more fans need to have. don’t blame teams like the Yankees for spending money, blame the billionaire owners of low-payroll teams for being cheap
I wish “putting the best possible team on the field” wasn’t as archaic a concept as it is.
the best possible jays at this point is, at best, 3rd place team in a.l. east!
Third place in the AL East will probably win a WC spot so that’s not so bad for a rebuilding team that almost lost 100 last year
Pretty sure one of the WC will come out of the ALW so Tor is probably the 4th best team in the division unless the Sox get worse before the season, and they are probably the 8th-9th team in the WC race for two spots.
HOU, NYY, TBR, OAK, MIN, CLE, and BOS. all have better paths to WC berths for the ones that miss the divisions. Central has worse teams but an unbalanced schedule in a weak division. I would put TOR right in the ballpark of CHI, TEX, LAA, Teams that want to compete who arent odds on favorites and need several things to go right to make a run.
I love the fact that it is another excellent pitcher that the “shoe-in Yanks” have to face in the division. And it should jack up the youngsters’ performance another notch.
Look for them to acquire Shin Soo Choo from Texas now..
@Southbeachbully- Its not just baseball its everything nowadays….. people feel that they instantly have to be able to analyze something in whole and place its exact value on it before it even happens- Its sickening it really is –
We are all just experts from different tribes and we are never wrong…. sure we might have naysayers but just tune them out and dial up the volume on the people who think along the same lines as you. and you”ll be just fine……This generation lacks logic in all shapes and forms and replaces it with arrogance
Great post though, glad to see theres still some good minds at work in here
100% with you statement. This BS with rebuilding blah blah is nonsense to me. Sports is about competing and not acting like you are running a hedge fund looking to maximize profits and containing cost. I get the financial aspect of being responsible but what the Indians are doing for example is criminal. They win 90 games and want to clean house and then expect fans to pay for tickets and turn on the TV to watch them. Play to win for god sake.
Worth risking that young core not quite breaking out in 2020 to get a pitcher the likes of which will be in much shorter supply next offseason.
Exactly.
Huh? It’s a 4 year deal. That takes the Jays right into their expected contention window.
Will they be by the last years of this contract?
The Blue Jays have very little salary committed in future years. It’s a risk for $20m annually, but Toronto usually has to overpay and can afford to do so.
Why aren’t they ready to compete (I’m a Red Sox fan so in all honesty I’m hoping they aren’t) BUT they have a young core of offensive weapons that should all be improved next season as they gain experience. They’ve added 2 (maybe 3) other quality arms to their rotation and they also added Travis Shaw who could potentially return to the .255/30HR hitter he was in 17/18. I’m not saying they’ve all of a sudden become favorites for anything but making a run at a WC spot… really isn’t out of the question anymore in my opinion. They still have Giles as their CL too so they’re in pretty solid shape all around. Another front of the rotation pitcher would ideally be what they lack — and maybe one more bat (Encarnacion maybe) but beyond that they don’t have many holes
Jeff- Lot of excitement for Jays right now! Still a lot of naysaying too!
Ideal bat option would play CF, naysaying would be at a minimum if they traded with the Pirates for one.
Infield looks pretty solid, outfield has a lot of questionables that could use some playing time. Two month audition time for Alford/Mckinney/Fisher/Hernandez while shopping the trade market for a true CF if none of them pan out as a real starter.
Looking to be about 18th in payroll if no big additions. Can probably add about 30mill during the season to get around 10th in payroll, which would be my estimate for the ceiling, given the recent history of the franchise. Room to add a top pitcher during the summer if no youngsters develop and/or injuries pile up. Lot of pitching depth for once!
Good take, especially from a Sox fan! Envious that the Jays won’t spend like Sox, but maybe it’ll happen. Cheers.
Seems the free agent talent has been “spread around”.
It’s nice to think there will be less bottom feeders this year… sorry Orioles
Enter the upset Angels fans in 3,2,1…
Well, at least we will score 10 runs a game…and still lose.
If and when they score 10 runs, they were 15th in runs scored last year and say even if adding rendon adds 50 more runs would only make them 10th.
“Adding Rendon adds 50 more runs”… buddy, you know who Rendon is?
It’s true. They keep me grounded until college football season. It’s about that time that I start to get sick of watching mediocre play around the greatest baseball player I’ve ever watched.
It’s disheartening.
Compared to the other 3b player that played last year. It’s not that unrealistic. He ain’t saying that he only scores 50 runs and has 50 rbis. It’s the difference between the numbers
Reading comprehension can be tricky at times.
Two of their best offensive contributors were hurt most the seaaon.
Runs not Wins dude! +50 Runs is his value over the season in both Run generation and run prevention compared to who they had at 3B that would be what 5WAR looks like in actual runs.
Holo Clowns,
Breath it will be ok, I promise you. This has been going on for years, you should be used to it by now. Toughen that thin skin of yours up and learn to add a little bite to your all bark. Good lord you Halo Clowns are soft.
Respectfully,
HaloShane 🙂
So what teams needed a top starter and have thus far failed to get one? Wouldn’t the Angels have to be at the top of the list?
Twins unfortunately are right there with them… 3 pitchers with little experience slated for their rotation so far
Ridiculous Twins, ridiculous.
The real issue the Angels have has been developing a healthy, sustainable core around Trout. I just feel that if they try to plug all their holes this offseason through free agency, they’ll cripple themselves finically and continue to waste Trout’s prime.
It’s extremely difficult (and rare) to build a championship roster through free agency and trades. I mean what’s the last World Series winner that didn’t have a core group from their own farm system?
@Brandon Sans
Who are these “healthy, sustainable core” you speak of? Ohtani (tj surgery), Pujols (what is he, 42……52), Upton (missed 100 games last year) and Simmons is a FA next year right?
Not a single Angels pitcher threw `100 innings last year. That shocked me. Your two most durable starters might be Bundy and Teheran and neither is really a FOR type.
Your best pitcher is your DH coming off of TJ surgery. I wonder if there’s been any talk among the team leaders about making Ohtani a full time pitcher and scrapping him as a hitter. I know it’s awesome to have a unicorn who can do both but pitching is clearly their biggest need.
Being a DH doesn’t restrict Ohtani from the mound. If he is healthy and pitching every Sunday he would still be able to DH 4-5 times a week. He is too good of a hitter to give it up.
@southbeachbully
He said that their issue is developing a healthy, sustainable core. There ISSUE. He didn’t say that they had a healthy, sustainable core. Read the comment before you post something stupid
angels best prospects are either coming up next season or are already up..
@cards04
I misread him. Thanks Richard.
you’re betting on someone with a .355 SLG and 40% SO rate in AAA as coming up next season?
Brandon: 2009 Yankees also.
@TheMick7
TECHNICALLY they did have a home grown core. It’s just that the Yanks spent money to extend them.
Jeter, Posada, Mo, Cano, Cabrera, Matsui (sort of)., Joba, Hughes and Robertson. But I get what you mean. Most teams can’t retain their stars past 6-8 years.
Yeah, valid point. Bad example.
I’m in Angel fan I’m not disappointed with the Ryu signing with the Blue Jays disappointing that we didn’t Didn’t get Wheeler Cole would’ve been nice if it would have been a 7 year contract with the Angels luck Ryu Would Wind up on the DL Two years from now the Blue Jays Will try to move Ryu and his contract
Miami Marlins
All the so-Cal teams
Yeah but at least they didn’t pay all that extra money that other teams did on pitching……… they didn’t get taken advantage of like the rest of the teams in the market. Angels showed them
Brewers
In my eyes there’s was only 2 outstanding top of The rotation pitchers in free agency Wheeler and Cole would’ve been nice to get say for 7 years but 9 years is the death sentence
Good point Geno, unless you win multiple rings in those 9 years… or, unless you can get Trout to the WS in his prime, and while you have Simmons, the best defensive ss in the game.
If the Yankees win two World Series in the next nine years and Mr Cole Helps them win I supposed It’s worth it all I’m saying is down the road there’s a lot of money tied up in one player it’s the case with Albert Pujols we had no flexibility for years
Yup, no question about that. You’re point is valid and accurate. I guess it depends, ultimately on which is more acceptable to both the fans and the owner. I would like to see the Angels make some good moves just for Trout’s sake. He’s committed fully to the team, but it seems they may not be as committed in return. Good points though, you make a compelling argument.
Wheeler better than Strasburg?
Not in this lifetime, MysteryWhiteBoy. I understand your point was rhetorically framed.
Why do people insist on calling Wheeler a “top of the rotation” guy? He’s a 3. A three is a 3, indeed, indeed. Since they both made their debuts, they have similar output (no, not production). In short, they have been more like Elijah Price, not Mr. Dunn.
I understand that Wheeler is 3 years younger, but Ryu’s deal is only for four years so its not like one has to worry about age. That said, RYU has been the better of the two in their professional careers, and IMO he will be better that Mr. 4 ERA and 100ERA+ Wheeler at the end of these contracts. Like I said before, Wheeler is the modern day A.J. Burnett. The stuff may be there, but it will never materialize more than what they are, a 3.
Go Jays!
Called it
You totally did! Well done.
And proud we all are.
Lol why?
Some beach!
Nooooooo
Nice pick up
And the Angels have Dylan Bundy.
With your fake ID name Shortytallz
Too much for an often injured pitcher. The Keuchel deal the Sox made was better.
Injury risk is a valid concern, but Ryu was up there with the best of them in 2019. I think the risk is worth the potential upside.
Nah, It’s still worse
Nah, Ryu will get shelled in the AL East
@Megatron2005
The AL East isn’t as great as it used to be. Good pitchers learn to adjust.
It has never been as good as it used to be.
Ryu has way more upside for 1.5 million more a year.
I don’t know about that. The guy can’t pitch a full season
That’s the rub but he’s top of the rotation potential, Keuchel does not.
He’s going to be 33 when next season starts and has the following # of Games Started since his age 26 season (2013):
30-26-0-1-25-15-29
The last time he pitched 25+ games in back to back seasons he was 26 and 27 years old and proceeded to miss the next two seasons due to injury.
There’s a very high likelihood of him pitching less than 20 games next year.
The Jays just paid a guy $80M for four years – he’s pitched in 70 games the last four years combined and he’s only getting older. People laughed at the potential of the Yanks paying Cole $1M per start – there’s a realistic chance the Jays will be paying Ryu $1.2M per start over the next four years.
I LOVE the talent. When this guy is healthy, he clearly can be an top of the rotation guy. But he has had one of the worse resumes In baseball, health wise. Because of that alone, Keuchel for $25M less is a better signing, IMO.
When healthy I think ryu is pretty close to a cole-level talent.
I also think one year of ryu at his peak does more to push a team over the top than any given year of keuchel.
Will the Jays only get one good year? Who knows. Id bet they get more than one.
Will they be able to harness that one (or more) good year(s) if that’s all they get?
Thats what makes the signing exciting for the East.
Also, payroll-wise it hurts them… not at all. So in that regard, it’s a better signing for THEM than keuchel, because at least for his “on” years they have that ace caliber starter they didn’t before
Sure, AtlSoxFan, but are they even 2-3 years away from seriously contending? Because even if you say, “yes in 2-3 years, absolutely,” then your bet is now on him being healthy and elite at 35 and 36 years old. How much are you betting now?
Absolutely the same thing.
You said that you see keuchel as the better signing of the two.
I say ryu does more for the jays than keuchel ever wouldve, and theyve got the money to spare… don’t forget, keuchel has that vesting option and could very easily be a 4 year deal worth almost the same dollar value.
Who knows what will happen, there’s teams that catch lightning in a bottle all the time that were never supposed to win – think 2013 red sox.
If they get to a post season, as a wild card, ryu can do vastly more than keuchel ever could.
In fairness, you’re assuming a lot of positives for the Ryu/Jays side and a lot of worst case scenarios for the Keuchel/Sox side. Not a valuable way to make your point but there’s clear bias.
Because I can easily argue – what if the Sox and Keuchel catch lightning in the bottle like the 2013 Red Sox: Keuchel is Cy Young caliber again and the rest of the Sox mostly outperform expectations all the way to another ring. See how easy that was?
Only time will tell.
Keuchel hasn’t posted the stats Ryu has.
Try looking at what either one did the last 2 seasons.
Nowhere did I assume negative about keuchel… only that each of keuchel and ryu perform to their recent level once the entire team gets there. Does back of rotation keuchel of 2018/2019 dominate a lineup the way 2018/2019 ryu (when not facing trashcan banging sign alerting opponents) performed?
That’s a pretty easy answer
jis two good/great seasons are all contract seasons.
Also, I really hate seeing something repeated through a thread, so I’m loathe to do it myself. But, in the context of this comment, I think it really is appropriate.
Let’s look at 2018/2019. Ryu had a shortened 2018, keuchel 2019.
Ryu: his 2018/2019 era+ were 198/179, and FIP liked him for 3.00/3.10
He paired that with 1.008/1.007 whip rate, 1.0/0.8 hr per 9 rate, 1.6/1.2 BB per 9 (actually leading the league last year.)
Keuchel: his 2018/2019 era+ were 111/121, and FIP liked him for 3.69/4.72.
His whip rate was 1.314/1.367, 0.8/1.3 hr per 9, and 2.6/3.1 BB per 9.
So, it really does seem to come down to what you think gives a team an edge – signing an ace caliber talent you wonder if they harness, or signing a back of rotation type with a reputation for health?
Thats where I put my bet, the ace. I don’t see how you can argue the probability of ace level output from keuchel, not from anything he has done in a very long time.
I agree with you on these. To me, Toronto needed Ryu in a different way than Chicago needed Keuchel. The Jays were lacking a starter with TOR stuff. Them risking to get him, knowing his injury history made sense here. For the White Sox, they have young starters with high end potential, but a few of them coming with their own injury risks/innings limits. Keuchel to them provides some stability in terms of acceptable quality and projectable quantity. I hope both provide their expected value for these teams to be competitive, even if they end up finishing outside of the playoffs for 2020.
What upside? That his arm will fall off again?
It’s also an extra guaranteed year.
Lots of flack on Sox with Kuechel signing but I think Dk to Sox deal is better than this one for AAV, time and value on field. Definitely, inflation for signings have significant spike. Unfortunately Boras is a Master of GMs
Next year they’ll get ten more wins and finish the season with a whopping 77-85 record.
And judge and Stanton will be hurt all year
Which subsequently won’t affect the Yankees winning…… sooooooo
Guys had career years last year with them out. So yes it will affect their winning, soooooo keep hoping on career years, you’ll need them
Oh forgot the bandaid on Gary Sanchez, my bad
Guys had career years last year so keep hoping they have them? Wow, that’s profound. Most picked the Yankees to win it all this year because they have no problem scoring runs. You’re talking as if Judge and Stanton are injured already. Still, it has no bearing on how good the Yankees will be overall. They’re not the team to lose one or two guys and then drop out of first.
Anyway they lost 32 guys to injuries, so to have that many people have “career years” is your way of saying “I hate the Yankees so I have to find a way to say they’ll lose.”
Shameful, JDubs, shameful.
Unless Stanton can figure out how to calm his swing, he will stay injured.
Did he swing different the first year in NY? Or the last year in miami. He played 158 games both years. He’s definitely had an injury history, but to say his swing did it is ridiculous.
Who knows? They fired their strength and conditioning coach and referenced the number of injuries as the underlying reason. Maybe they realized something he was doing was improper, outside the norm, or maybe he’s just a scapegoat. They did have an inordinate number of injuries last year though. If they all stay healthy, they may surpass last year’s win total and approach the 98 Yankees.
Well, they basically are already hurt, as to fully 100% recover from an injury, many people do not understand just because it’s pain-free does not mean the remodelling phase of the injury is necessary complete as that can take up to 12 months for a muscle or a tendon injury. Also the rate of re-injury is obviously higher after the tissue as already been compromised. Now that this lesson is over I’ll give you another one.
You can’t expect DJ to have that year again, Hicks is not the player he was 2 years ago, gio will be a one year wonder, and you really trust voit at first?
Torres, the pen, and the rotation will likely be solid but I wouldn’t be putting all my money on the rest of the team
“Lesson” and “opinion” are actually not synonyms. I think the Yankees will have better luck with health in 2020. Sentence 1 is a lesson, sentence 2 is an opinion.
That’s interesting. I am surprised he was able to get the full no-trade clause included considering the value of the contract.
Talk about mega-overpay
All small market teams are going to have to overpay. Heck, in this market for SP’s, EVERYONE has to overpay. The word overpay doesn’t really mean much in this context. There’s been a market shift… SP’s are worth more now. Period.
Well, thats one step to getting prices value back up a little more.
Well. No more tier 1 starters now
I feel he overachieved last season. He’s good but not that good. Probably doesn’t turn out to be a good deal for Tor is my thought
@dodgersvictoryagain
His ERA last year was 35 points lower even if it was just 82 IP
Why do we find a need to voice how a contract will be the moment the ink is dry? Seems like we’re all overly pessimistic. Let’s see it play out. Good for the Jays to give their fans and young players something to feel good about in 2020. More teams should do it..
That is totally unexpected. The Blue Jays have a thin rotation that cannot really replace him when he is on the DL and they are far from making up that 220 run differential between them and what it will take to contend for the wild card.
They have 9 other starters vying for the rotation.
Curious about trade clause details, but a nice and surprising signing. They’re not done with maneuvers yet. And Pearson is gonna be real good.
They traded away bullpen pieces last year, think they still need some more adds there.
Lots of young arms coming up from AA and AAA. The Jays just did a rebuild and those prospects will now get their chances if guys like Ryu, Shoemaker, etc. get hurt
That closes sp free agency
Yep rest of starters are hit or miss
I’ve heard some rumors on sports talk and MLB Network about Jays being interested in Happ. I think he’s a solid starter for them too and would provide even more depth.
Yeah, the best available guys now are pitchers that you would have to trade for to in order to get them.
It’ll be funny to read the Shapiro haters…
Great signing!
Dunno about this for Toronto unless feel far more confident about their chances at contention next season than everyone else. Ryu is a fine pitcher, but not sure if that’s the contract you want on the books as you move toward contention.
My gut feeling is maybe it’s an ownership mandate to go for it next year or else people’s seats may start to get hot.
Actually, I think it is.
You’ve got lots of young guys making at or near league minimum coming up, and this contract ends before they’re deep into arb raises. Sounds like to drops off the books right when they will need money freed up
Jay’s were $90M under their payroll from a few years ago before this move with $14 still out to Tulo this season. They have little money on the books. This deal is pretty meaningless to their current or future payroll
I agree with AtlSoxFan and others who favor this deal. Sure, there is injury risk with Ryu. The price paid for 2020 is not at all out of line with his performance, however.
TOR also gets a potential ace signed to a multi-year deal this offseason rather than waiting for potentially more competition for what could be a much less talented free agent SP pool next offseason.
the Jay’s are at a turning point and they needed a higher end arm. Pearson is close which makes Roark & Anderson decent options along with their kids fighting it out. Kay, Zeuch, Borucki and so forth
I’m asking this from a place of ignorance because I’m not close to the Blue Jays situation – are they even 2-3 years away from contention? I mean legit, they can win the WS contention by year 3 or 4 of Ryu’s contract?
They have an excellent core of young potential stars and quality regulars. Vlad, Bichette,Biggio, Lourdes, Jansen as well as Pearson who could very well be a top starter. Beyond that they have a lot of other talent that has transitioned or close.
The offense isn’t far off from being good. The pitching was a disaster. So there is at least some good starting blocks.
I would say they are more likely competitive starting in 2021 but could be close to a WC higher with more strong moves
Thank you for the knowledge. As an outsider/far removed from your team, it sounds like you guys have A LOT of holes and a long of young studs who have a lot of proving to do. Maybe in 2-3 years you’re contending? We shall see.
The hope has been by 2021-22. Their biggest asset today is payroll flexibility and a solid core of cheap kids. Outside of Pearson the farm is mid-level with some good but far off kids.
So realistically they can fill the holes with money or trades as needed.
Of course those damn Yankees are pretty good.
Twins pissing down there leg again
Looks like the Twins are definitely relying on a trade. Signing a FA rotation piece got too spendy for that poor billionaire.
Yeah, what the heck? 4 years, $80m is nothing. Gotta pay somebody to get them to MN, even if you overpay a little bit. Same old story.
Wow.. good for the Jays!!… can’t wait to pummel him all over Yankee stadium
Eppler is pooing himself this offseason
He’s done after this season. All he has to gloat about is the signing of Ohtani. Man, what a horrible offseason for the Angels. Definite losers imo
He’s added 4-6 total WAR in pitching so far and 5-6WAR from Rendon. Still time to work trades etc…
Not the top SP we wanted and expected but if they each deliver 26-33 starts, 160-180IP, 3.75-4.50ERA, <1.25WHIP they should be ok.
If they fail and deliver the same results as Cahill and Harvey, then Eppler is DONE.
Mike Clevinger, Robbie Ray, Joe Musgrove, Matt Boyd & Jon Gray are looking better as each FA signs.
I agree. If a team can offer 2-3 prospects.
Did not see that coming
If he pitches 400 innings during his contract I’ll be surprised.
500 would be a letdown. 400 makes you a hater.
Yes! I love this, because the angels didn’t get him! I have been sick for a few days, and this is by far the best news i’ve had in a while. Plus it could let the yanks and rays struggle a bit over in the east. Overall, I love the move, they needed an arm, and they got it! Busy offseason and it is perfect.
Well. I predicted 4/88 so this is a nice surprise.
I see the comments about overpay but don’t agree. It’s just the way the market is now. I don’t see Keuchel or Wheeler being better deals and people seem to forget just how good he is when healthy. Nice play here for the BJ’s
I agree, $20 million per year for a guy like this is a good deal. As a Yankees fan I was hoping he would stay in the NL or at least away from the AL east but I like the move from Toronto’s perspective
I predicted 5 years/$100 million. Not really that great of a guess. Oh well, at least the AAV of the actual deal is the same as I predicted ($20 million per year).
Guess the Angels are stuck with Teheran and Bundy as their big offseason pitching additions.
Two 2-4WAR guys for the cost of about 1.5WAR, not great but they help.
Neither are close to a 4WAR pitcher! Added 1-3WAR on two players trending the wrong way across multiple seasons to the 26th worst SP rotation in baseball. Ohtani was just announced to be maybe not ready to start the year, and will be on a funky once a week pitching schedule that I would think had something to do with them failing to sign any of the top starters, or else they just wouldnt put up the cash for the thing they really needed.
The bullpen is still a mess with minimal impact relievers still available, and trading for any pitching that moves the needle will cost Adell as the headliner. Team has what one top 100 prospect, any starter like Clevinger will cost that. I mean I guess you could pony up for Ray while saving Adell although the ask on Ray was high reportedly. Give up real value to try to fix the useless Archer?
They got trigger shy on fixing the one thing they needed this winter, and instead spent the pitching money on a 3B they didnt really need.
Teheran has had a 4 WAR season or two, both Bundy and Teheran came off 2.0+ WAR seasons, either or both could improve on last year.
A 3B they didn’t really need? Did you see the Angels 3B production last year, I believe it ranked 26th. Yeah safe to say they needed to improve 3B and they did.
They had a much better lineup then pitching staff so if you want to improve there is a more obvious route then Rendon. Teheran has been going in the wrong direction for several years and hasnt hit close to 4 WAR in years, hasnt been worth 4WAR in the last 3 seasons combined, and looks like a 1 WAR pitcher. Bundy is a max 2.5WAR pitcher with declining velocity despite being 27. As I said Bundy Tehran project for like 1-3.5WAR combined, and that is the upside. Like 10% of the time they get 4+WAR and like 50% they get less then 2WAR. Not sure that does much to improve the #26 SP rotation in 2019 and a bottom 5 bullpen.
Add to all that the fact that the LAA org has been either terribly unlucky, or are a bad team for SP health. So they will have one guy coming back from TJ pitching once every 7 days starting sometime after the season starts, based on current reporting, and a bunch of back end dudes with almost no depth after the 1-5, and the worst team for pitcher health in the last 5 years by a wide margin.
“Not worth 4war the last 3 seasons combined”
okay…
Teheran:
6.2 WAR last 3 seasons combined.
4.5 WAR last 2 seasons combined.
2019: 2.7
2018: 1.8
2017: 1.7
@chapman
It’d be cool if you actually knew wth you’re talking about, but you don’t. You just spew whatever BS suits your rambling troll comments.
fWAR Tehran
2017 : 1
2018 : .7
2019 : 1.6
total : 3.3WAR 2017-19 Ill take 1.2WAR 2020
Bundy : 2.5WAR last year. Leaving Camden and bad O’s defense. His pitch mix at this point looks scary with the juiced ball and I think he is a younger Brett Anderson where some days it works and others it doesnt.
I would say its 1.8-4.5WAR combined out of those two, and while Simmons is fantastic, Rendon is a scratch defender that hits, and Pujols will be run out at 1B again when Ohtani DHs so I dont know how top tier team defense will be. They also move from a division with 3 good offensive teams to one with 3 good offensive teams, so run prevention wont be crazy easy.
I’m using BR WAR, which this site links to.
Welcome to the AL East, Ryu. Look forward to facing you again.
Interesting signing by Toronto, to say the least. I’m surprised Ryu went to a non-contender like that. Angels must really not have been as motivated as we all believed
I’d say Toronto is as much of a contender as the Angels at this point. Jays still have plenty of room to add more before the season begins.
Now the angels are going to make a panic trade tomorrow for Boyd, and give up half their farm.
I bet they wait til mid March to see how spring training plays out.
News flash sports fans! They have 1 top 100 prospect. Teams dont trade impact starters with multiple years of control for packages that dont include all 3 of the LAA top prospects.
As I said above the one year rental on Ray will cost a package without Adell for a real almost ace. With one year at a not insignificant price.
Archer comes cheaper, but may not be worth anything, and is more valuable to PIT if he bounces back unless you give them a real package.
Price is expensive, declining, and with his bounce back year will cost some package of real prospects plus paying a decent chunk of his money the next 3 years.
There is 0% chance that the LAA have the minor league assets to acquire a real difference maker pitcher or two or three like they really need between SP/RP. The Padres will out bit them for any real starter coming at good value in trade, or someone else with more assets to burn.
The Tigers would be stupid to ask for Adell as a starring price for Boyd. Why do you think that it is out of the realm of possibility for a deal to be done without Adell?
1. Boyd has been inconsistent. That will lower the price some.
2. The Angels have plenty of enticing prospects besides Adell, like Marsh, Maitan, or even an ex top prospect in Griffin Canning.
3. There was a trade earlier this week that sent Kluber to Texas for two players not even close to top 100 prospects (though it was part salary dump for the Indians), but that would rush the Angels into wanting to get pitching quicker.
Now these are the reasons why they would have to deal Adell
1. Everybody is looking for controllable starters and Boyd is one of them.
2.. He is inexpensive.
3. I didn’t have a three, but this makes it more even.
So I want you @ChapmansVacuum to decide if it would take Jo Adell to get the Boyd deal done now.
For the sake of fairness you need to add to the fact that kluber’s trade gave only 1 year of control, of a guy who threw 35 IP, with muscle issues, and broke a bone in his pitching arm – so that 1 year salary dump comes with no idea of what you can even try to get out of him, or when he will be ready, regardless of past talent. That really depresses the return.
Look at what other pitchers comparable to Boyd have netted in trades. Factor in on top of that that the current mad dash for FA SP is pushing every other teams valuation up. When was the last time a SP coming off a 3.3WAR season, with 11K/9, with 3 years of control, who has shown Boyds upside and skills, was traded for a package that didnt include a single top 100 prospect?
Your so smoked if you think any package without Adell even starts the conversation with the Tigers.
Prospects are worth more closest to the majors so sure the LAA could see if they could nuke all future interesting prospects who will be worth more packaging like 2-6 or 7 on the list for Boyd, but thats exactly how you end up with a #30th ranked farm like LAA had for most of the decade.
So yeah no DET wont deal Boyd for anything less then Adell + Marsh. Do yourself a favor and look at Fangraphs prospect valuation stuff. Adell is worth 62M in future value as of mid season 2019.
Adell is the only one they have that can offer anything close in MLB prospect/$ values that the next 3 years of Boyd at like 2.9M, 5.5M, 12M. Just projecting him for the same 3.3WAR over those seasons is 10WAR. At the current value of 7M/Win+(its actually closer to 10M), Boyd will cost something in the neighborhood of 20M while producing 70-100M in value so you need to build a package worth 50-80M in prospect value to get him. His upside based on age and development also means that 10WAR is the low end so he could cost more like 150M in prospect capital. Teams also want a premium if they dont get any blue chip prospects so anything not named Adell gets you .80/1$.
Adell is worth 62M, Marsh 28M, so the two of them according to FanGraphs is a good start for Boyd. You can do this math close enough to see if a deal is realistic with most of these. LAA has the 18th ranked Farm by trade value according to the prospect gurus at FG and would have only 2/3rds of the 29th ranked teams value if they deal just those two. Consider yourself lucky your no longer the 30th ranked team like you were for years. Top prospects on lists arent all that valuable when your a bottom 1/3 team Adell is the only route to a SP where they arent taking a bad contract, or getting a mediocre pitcher.
Ray is costing 10M for 2.5WAR so for him Marsh straight up is almost fair straight up, and Marsh plus one more top 30 and a couple low level throw ins probably gets it done. Although that was before the market for starting got this hot. With the current demand you should expect to add 30% to the prospect ask over what you have thought since lots of contenders are still hunting SP, and outside of Price none of the rest of the trade targets are in a need to move position. Blow me away for C Archer says PIT because its more worth it for them to look for a bounce back then get what he is worth right now.
Ok since you are sticking by your opinion, i’d like to ask you a few more questions.
1. Are you an A’s fan? (judging by the username)
2. What major league talent do you think the Tigers would take from the Angels for Boyd?
3. Do you think that Marlins Caleb Smith would be a good fit for the Angels?
4. Do you think WAR is a credible stat for pitchers/ what is your favorite stat for pitchers?
1) Born in OAK grew up being a 6 year old when bash brothers took the title with Ricky and friends. I am a baseball fan who likes well run teams, fond of Tampa despite them knocking out the A’s. Big fan of underdog teams that win without the resources of bigger market teams.
2) I dont think they can put together a trade for Boyd without cleaning out the farm. Most 1-3 pre arb talent on the MLB roster isnt what a rebuilding team like DET wants. The few players they have that fit the bill are pitchers that they dont want to give up, since pitching is the problem. Also remember that DET doesnt need to trade Boyd now, they can always deal him mid season when the demand for SP will be higher. This also applies to all controlable SP teams that dont have to trade a player now wont take a mediocre deal when they can just wait and get more. Boyds value goes up even more if he improves on last year. I would say you need 125M-150M in assets going back to get him LAA doesnt have that in spare assets.
3) Sure Smith is better then several of the projected rotation, and adding depth by pushing your number 5 starter down is something the injury prone Angels rotations badly need. On the other hand MIA is asking for a lot from other teams for SP so is he really any cheaper then Boyd in terms of the ask? I mean he hasnt produced a season like Boyds last year yet, but he also has another year at league minimum. If the LAA arent blowing MIA away with the offer why wouldnt they just hold on to a 27 year old SP with only 2 years of service time, who they think has more upside then his current value reflects. Young players like that you can pay for what they could be or you can get one where the team knows something about them you dont that makes them value the player less. Affordable talent that can perform at a high level is supremely valuable right now. Most teams are afraid to pull trades like the Yelich one because nobody wants to see the Bartolo out of Cle trade in the modern baseball world. I would highly doubt any Marlins SP you want costs much less then Boyd. If your trying to find SP with a cheaper price tag you need to look at rentals instead of players with 2+ years of control because nobodies giving those up cheap.
4) WAR isnt perfect I do like RA9 more in some cases, and I feel like it undervalues pitchers who can be more valuable in certain situations. Like OAK for instance ERA the last couple years has been more predictive then usual despite FIP being more valuable to WAR. I think OAK knew they had the #1 defensive player in baseball at 3B, SS, and 1B by DRS and they wanted GB and were ok trading Ks for contact since they have a good park for balls in the air, and a fantastic infield defense. They tried to limit walks and hard contact at the expense of stats that pump pitcher WAR. So I think sometimes its situational. Dont expect Anderson and his 4.5K/9 to look the same playing in TOR. WAR is good for judging trade value, and projecting future seasons. I dont love it but its one of the better metrics. By WAR LAA needs to make up at least 15WAR to be close to Oaklands mediocre collection of over performers from last season, and Boyd would add 65% of the full pitching staffs value from last year. LAA has the second worst pitching staff by WAR and improved it by adding the “Ace” from team number 30 as there big move!
I like that you didn’t have a three. Even-ness is important and a lot of 3s in my experience just run around causing trouble and spreading diseases.
1) & 2) were plenty enough.
Regardless of such tomfoolery – I don’t see the Angels giving up the one jewel in the crown (Adell) for anything. Literally anything. They believe they have the second coming of Trout there and as such will wait for a few other second comings prior to any trade.
We’re all cognisant (at least I was until I found the excellent Pike Creek aged 10 years under the cat, again, I have serious suspicions about that cat) – ah yes – we’re all cognisant that the Angels are short on pitchers.
But given their payroll, I honestly think the Angles are in wait mode. If they surprise and (say) are 10 games above .500 at the All Star break, and lets say Boston aren’t – they have the salary capacity to add (say) Price (for $20m a year) and a prospect or two in a Sox salary dump.
As an A’s fan it’s always wonderful to read how inept the Angels ownership & FO appears to be, but factually they’re not. They’ve managed to tether the GOAT until time forgot. They’ve “sold” the franchise to Rendon. They’re going about it the right way because pitching is more volatile than run production. Stupid as it sounds, pitching can wait if they don’t like Cole etc at $35M AAV over NINE years. And clearly, and wisely, they didn’t…
They have gotten 73.4 WAR from Trout over the last 10 years, with several of those seasons coming at criminally low prices, and have spent in the top tier of baseball teams.
With all those advantages they have lost one playoff sweep and a decade in Trout doesnt have a single game win in the post season. With the money and Trout the only conclusion possible is that they are one of the worst run franchises in MLB in the last 30-40 years. Do you know what Tampa could have done with years 1-6 of Trout (you know they would have signed him to a team friendly extension 3 weeks in) and traded his 2 option years they got! They would have won, then remade a superstar team in the time LAA have sht the bed.
ITS A CRIME AGAINST BASEBALL WHAT LAA ARE DOING TO TROUT!
#FREEMIKETROUT #MIKETROUTINTHEPLAYOFFS LOLOLSOLSOLSOLOLS #MORENO_SUCKS_SO_HARD
Who is more inept PIT with 25 straight losing seasons, or LAA with a decade of Mike Trout and no playoff wins?
And who is going to make a trade with them in mid-March when teams are filling out their rotations/rosters? The only players are available during that time are the ones getting cut. They either need to get something done during the offseason or wait until the trade deadline period.
Exactly – if you can’t get a top 50 FA TOTR starter now it’s not happening. I genuinely don’t see any of the FA starters other than Bumgarner as a realistic pay. And even he comes with oft repeated – buyer beware – questions. They’re looking at next years FA pitching.
They all signed already. Its the injured all last year Alex Wood, the hurt to start the season and 40 Rich Hill, and the good with the A’s but bad for a half decade Mike Leake.
Thats whats left of the FA starting pitching, and RP isnt looking much better at this point.
With so many teams like MIN and SDP still looking for both SP/RP and having far better farm systems then the LAA I dont think they can outbid a demand over supply market.
Thinned skinned Halo Clown, don’t go crazy. Keep it together lolzzzzz
“lolzzzzzz”? I knew you were a 12 year old girl, HaloShana.
If you had daughters you’d understan how stupid it is to use “girl” as the butt of a joke. Some people don’t actually need to have a daughter to get it, they can simply rely on common empathy.
Actually, Mo, HaloShane was the butt of my joke. Good job being hypersensitive though.
The dodgers missed out big time
Eppler gonna get desperate and trade the farm. Not a happy camper. Good for Ryu though
What farm that shiet minor league system still only has one top level prospect!
Enter all Southern California baseball fans proclaiming that their team didn’t need him anyways.
Not for 4/80 guaranteed.
you needed him in the worst way, so yes, you would have taken him for 20 mil a year…
Not an overpay in this year’s SP market. Going rate. Angels missed out on another deal they really needed to close.
$20m isn’t the overpay, it’s the years. Years 3/4 will likely be a total waste given his age and injury history.
This signing is for 2021 and beyond for competition. The now part of the trade is to show the kids that mgmt believes in them and will be going all in even more, in the years to come. Considering theyre paying tulo for 1 more year, they’ll be fine to pay less for ryu with tons of room to spare, too.
Wow Chonk
Nice to see the dodgers window coming to a close
Price and Betts to the Dodgers for a few mid-level prospects and thanks for getting the Red Sox under the Tax.
Price could still go to the Angels too. I wonder what BOS would pay of that 3/96 owed Price. Hmm?
If they get Adell a reasonable chunk of that, any other package maybe 15M total 5M a season.
Price is a salary dump, 5m per season won’t get it done, he’s not worth 3/81, 3/60 maybe and Adell still won’t be part of that trade.
BOS wants to be competitive in 2020. They also are like 35ish M over the tax line when factoring in all taxable items. The only reason they want to trade Price since there arent replacements available to sign is to get down towards the tax. They wont trade Price unless they get out of almost all his salary since his salary is the whole reason he would be dealt!
NO team will take on Price’s 3/96 contract AND give a top prospect. BOS will be lucky if someone takes on 3/60-65m for a prospect, and it wouldn’t be Adell (if it’s the Angels). BOS will have to shed JBJ salary as well to get under the tax.
I’d disagree. Most of their talent is still young, and as long as they have been replenishing that talent it’s safe to say that they will continue to make the playoffs for the foreseeable and hopefully one day win it. An extremely deep team and they can always add via the trade deadline to make a deeper playoff push. I’d bet that between Urias, Gonsolin, and May they find a very strong #3. Ryu signing away hurts but there is always a trade to get a #2 plus pitcher. Friedman doesn’t want to trade away the farm. Understandable given the talent he’s amassed the last few years. Wouldn’t be surprised if this is the year they make a bigger trade before the season or in the trade deadline to shore up starting staff, and/or bullpen or one more lineup bat.
Way too much. Not with his history. Wow!
Angels trade for JA Happ?
How much of his salary would they be willing to take on?
Take his money and he is free. If JA Happ for 18M is something you actually want!
IMO desperation move
What’s desperation about it? They needed more pitching and got it on a reasonable deal. He’s been great in 4/6 of his seasons and the other two were only bad due to missed time not performance. He’s steadily been a 3.00 era pitcher his entire career.
Well, that’s it then. Once again, the Angels fail to fulfill their promise to fans.
Eppler must go. Ownership must understand that even us most diehard fans will stop watching a team that doesn’t get it done.
It’s true. They keep me grounded until college football season. It’s about that time that I start to get sick of watching mediocre play around the greatest baseball player I’ve ever watched.
It’s disheartening.
Arte “Make his GM trade for Vernon Wells, and strong arm the signings of Pujols and Hamilton” Moreno is the real problem dummy. Your owner is as bad of a meddler as Dolan/Wilpons in NY.
Good GMs are worth spit when idiot owners force them to make stupid, stupid, stupid moves like giving up assets for VERNON WELLS and almost all his money!
I do like the Jay’s trying to make moves.. but imo I just dont like Ryu being the guy there to anchor them . not entirely reliable . but when on the mound theres not many better !good luck!
Great signing. Even if they are not ready to compete this year the SP free agent market for next year is not good so have to get one now.
Or trade….
Trading costs you prospects. FA signing when you’ve got low overall payroll doesn’t cost you anything in the organizational sense
And will no longer be cashing playoff checks
The Red Sox just lost one of the few dance partners they had for Price.
Maybe
Or may have had other partners get forced to take a more serious look to make a better offer. There isn’t a lot on the trade market you can buy without giving up a big haul of prospects.
And there are win-now teams needing a good #2/3 rotation piece who have missed out to some surprise bidders in FA.
I doubt he moves. Red Sox dont seem to understand that they may have to attach value to Price to move him if they want all the money on his deal gone, which is the whole reason they want him gone. So they wont eat it to clear all his money, and any trade where they pay him most of what he is owed doesnt drop the Tax bill hardly at all which is the whole reason to move him.
I dont know what the Sox are going to do. 3rd best team in the East as constructed, and thats with some bounce backs. Yet they will be making themselves worse to pay less tax. Is this the Giants in 16′ spending the next couple seasons bandaiding the team together trying to spend what money frees up to patch the holes while the high dollar contracts become less and less tradeable. Sometimes even high revenue teams know when its time to reset the board. Sox could trade away everyone but Devers and Xander with upside and be back within two years.
Oh yeah Dumbrowski? likes to chew up farm systems for shots at titles. You got the title, now enjoy the fallout on the farm while the big money contracts hamstring FA signings. Flags fly forever, and Detroits last 5 years is your future!
Of course, boston doesn’t need all of price’s money gone.
If they pay 1/3 of the contract down price is at market value, and that single move also gets boston under the tax.
There’s no need to attach another player of value, although, depending who you talk to and whether they blindly interpret what pundits say vs reading the stats and medical progress releases (and consider what the injury shutdown was even for) you get to greatly different idea of what price’s value should be
Getting 1/3 of Prices money gone wont take them under the tax. If they lose his full salary I think that almost gets them below it. They have the highest payroll besides NY after the FA signings. They need to drop like 28M to get down below the tax and like 40M to have room for signings if the tax is the cap for ownership.
Clearing Prices salary completely as a way of dropping payroll very much would cost them assets to move. Betts is the more likely payroll dump move since you get assets back for him and his full salary cleared.
You misread me. If the sox pay 1/3 down that means they’re on the hook for 10m of a 31m contract.
That means 21m in salary relief. Right now, they’re about 230m. You take away 21m from 230m, thats 209m against the CBT.
With all the arb filings to save a buck or two, heck, even jbj can be released if not traded before ST, there’s no question of getting below or stressing over it. Its a relatively minor cost if you had to while the contract remains not fully guaranteed
I think your just looking at contract values. One good thing the site has been doing is quoting the total costs towards the tax instead of just salary. I think they are at like 244-248M after required benefits and other costs since those are around 15M and the team is at 227M currently with projected ARB and guaranteed deals. So it would take around -35M to reset the luxury tax to the first time repeater amount. Of course the tally occurs at seasons end so they could roll the team they have and deal Betts+ at the deadline if they arent in it.
Its good the sites are now more accurately reporting on the true payroll instead of just major league salaries since it matters.
Of course owners making the type of money that BOS are between the sellouts and owning NESN they should not care about the tax and just run the payroll out till they have a contender. I get why teams without the revenue may have a hard time convincing owners to pony up a payroll that exceeds revenue, but Red Sox ownership is just choosing not to spend more of their profit. Owners like them are bad for the sport, but most owners now care more about the prestige and profit they receive then the well being of Americas Pastime after they are gone.
Let’s just say your $248 figure is the correct one. If $21 comes off of that, wouldn’t it still be significant because it drops them under the top tier? Maybe the Sox don’t get under this year, but if they can clear price this year and, assuming Betts walks, they’ll definitely be able to reset in 2021. This also opens some spending room to upgrade going into 2021.
I mean just from what I have gleaned from reporting they want to get below the line to reset the repeater penalty. Obviously they really really want to stay below the 248M line where draft picks start to fall and the tax hits insane rates.
The Padres were supposedly in on every starter but signed none.
I remember articles early in the offseason saying preller & Co put their own value on the various FAs and trade candidates, and if the deal couldn’t get done for that value they would stand pat.
I think he misread the market.
I dont think he wanted to spend big on a pitcher, the rotation is solid. The two best prospects are pitcher.
That’s a lot of teams
was hoping the Jays would be stupid and trade for David Price…could still happen, I suppose.
20 mil a year, full no trade clause. Yeah ok…..
Jay’s were $90M under their payroll from a few years ago before this move with $14 still out to Tulo this season. They have little money on the books. This deal is pretty meaningless to their current or future payroll
Seriously man. Who gives him 20 million per over 4? It’s a bad call. Too many ??? brother. That to me that is a big risk which has high potential to blow up in their faces.
They’ve got the money to spare.
It’s a moderate risk but very high reward move in a period they didn’t need the payroll for anything else
The Jay’s had $10M in guaranteed contracts in 2023 before this deal. Ideally you don’t go 4 years but it’s the price they likely had to pay. Getting FA to come to Toronto is not an easy thing.
It’s not stupid money and with their payroll right now it’s pretty meaningless and won’t cause future challenges even if the 4th year sucks.
They’re obviously doing whatever they can to appease the fan base and field a better team. Would it have been better to let him sign with another team over a few million? The rotation is far better than lat years so lets just be happy about that. Its not our money. I say spend it if its there. Better than giving up prospect capital
@BSpar
These deals aren’t done over a bottle of scotch and half a dozen doobies. I’m guessing but I’d imagine there would be serious MRI scans into the health of Ryu’s elbow, rotator cuff, achilles and quite possibly his banjo string.
There will be advanced metrics on the likelihood of his making 20-32 starts per year over four seasons and whilst obviously the want will be 32 starts per year they’ll have costed this at (ballpark guess again) 25 starts per season. So approximately $800,000 per start.
This is a signing that states the Blue Jays want to contend. And I – for one – commend them for that.
In a vacuum, it’s an overpay. When you look at Toronto’s big picture, it makes a lot of sense. We need to overpay to get FAs. We have a ton of backend starters and need a top of the rotation type to pair with Pearson. Our young position players are a couple of years ahead of our minor league pitching.
And it makes no sense to waste the cheap pre-arb years of players like Vladdy, Bichette, Biggio, etc with zero pitching. We might as well overpay for pitching now when we need it and wait for the abundance of pitching in the minors to develop. By the time Roark, Anderson & Shoemaker’s deals expire, we should have Pearson and Kay integrated into the rotation with Ryu & Thornton and depth with Borucki/Zeuch/SRF/Waguespack, etc.
@Yella
Apart from the overpay thing I agree with everything else. Honest to God I don’t think Ryu is an overpay. I won’t fry and eat my hat, (I like my hats too much) but my next door neighbour (Alina from Italy) wears a Dodgers cap – I’ll fry and make her eat that….
I think the Blue Jays will be fun to watch next year – then again they were last year.
I hope Ryu’s not an overpay but realistically most free agent contracts provide poor value. That said, Rogers has a ton of money and pitching is desperately needed so it’s about time the Jays took a risk and sign high end talent (when healthy) instead of going after inning fillers.
If the position players develop well and Ryu stays moderately healthy (150 innings, 25 starts), I could see the Jays playing .500 ball next year with legit playoff aspirations in 2021.
Scott Boras needs to wear his magician hat and wave his magic wand during the Ryu Blu Jay press conference.
The trade market for starting pitchers just exploded someone gonna give way to much up for someone…curious to see who the top three targets will be
I hope they front-loaded the contact. Maybe 25, 25, 15 & 15. That way they’ll have more payroll flexibility in a couple of years when they might be contenders again.
That is the type of breakout that would make a lot of sense but they have so little committed for the future and even in 4 years the kids won’t be expensive yet
The CBA doesn’t work like that. It’s calculated based on average annual value regardless of how the payments are spread out.
Lol the Jay’s would need to add more than 100M in annual payroll to have tax issues. That’s not even a consideration.
The blue Jays aren’t worried about CBT. It’s absolute payroll outlay which is minimal the next 2 yrs that would see more real dollars free when arb raises start in years 3 or 4 of the deal.
Few teams really push that tax threshold, and I don’t forsee TOR as one of them.
OPs comment makes sense in that light.
This doesmt matter in baseball.
He is no where near an overpay. 2.52 ERA and 370 innings the past two years, that’s literal money.
Really?
Overpay
Not in this market it’s not. I don’t think people understand what overpay means anymore.
Where did you get 370 innings from?
182 + 82 does not equal 370
I’ve been an Angels fan since 1980. I’m disgusted. Maybe it’s time.
It is only Dec. 22, and there will be trade opportunities. I do think that Eppler is slow on the trigger. I think he likes the one year contracts but to win you have to take chances. I think he will be gone after this season.
ARTE MORENO IS THE WORST! Almost every terrible move the team has made since 2009 was him overruling his GM to do bad bad moves!
“Almost every terrible move the team has made since 2009 was him overruling his GM to do bad bad moves!”
Chapman – be specific. Which moves involved Moreno overruling the GM and which ones didn’t? How do you know?
ephz89 – with you. @Chapman – I’m a fellow A’s fan.
Honestly – the Angels front office doesn’t like 9 years of Cole at $35m AAV. Can you blame them?
They’ve added Rendon at about the same, (over six) but offensive output is a lot more reliable. If you’re not 47 years old, like me and that Pujols bloke.
The Angels will strike IF (big if hence the capitals) they are 5 or 10 above .500 at ASB/deadline. Otherwise they’ll smoke one of my cats doobies and wait…..
They’re better off acting at the deadline – the cat has a nervous twitch in her left paw and loads it….
Someones gotta pitch every inning though, and great offenses wont win any titles on a team that rocks like a 5-7 team ERA just ask COL!
Time to leave? Please do.
Nice to see some genuine Angels fans on this site. Man, some of the fans are either delusional or simply disingenuous. You guys should be mad, you have a beautiful west coast area, and had the definitive potential to make some great offseason signings. Add that to Rendon, Trout, and Simmons? You guys quickly move up. I hate to say but, when Simmons goes to FA, it will be crazy hard trying to replace that talent at ss.
I was scratching my head on the Angels losing out of the Keuchel deal, but not this one. If Eppler pulled the trigger on a Ryu 4 year deal, it would have smelled of desperation. That being said, if Eppler doesnt continue the push to improve the staff via trade, then I will definitely question this strategy.
Yeah, true. I’m not so sure what they can say it is going forward unless they intend to rely on trades… but do they have the farm system to get the arms they need? (Serious question)
Fair question Mick. Outside of Adell, yes they do. It also depends on the scenario. Reports show that Boston is looking for a team to assume Prices contract and may not require prospects. Obviously a guy like Clevinger (far and away the best option) would require quite as hall. Matt Boyd would also require several prospects. In short, yes they hav ed thr resources and NEED to make some type of quality move.
Good stuff, man, thanks.
Adell is worth 62M in future value, Marsh 28M, the rest of the system doesnt have many worth more then 10M in trade value where the value of the prospects equals the dollar value of the projected value minus costs on the acquiring player.
LAA has the 18th ranked farm by value according to FanGraphs. If they dealt Adell+Marsh they would be 30th ranked with 2/3rds of #29s value. So they have a one prospect system that ranks last if Adell retires tomorrow. They dont have close to the assets for multiple pitchers worth 1WAR or more. Trade most good ones but Adell for Ray and you get one good SP for one year and have an even top heavier last ranked system that is a true black hole once he graduates.
Not bad at all. A great guy to anchor the staff and give hope to the young kids. By the time the younglings are hitting arbitration years, this contract will be gonzo
Yeah I seen him as under rated in this years market ..but certainly didn’t see the jays making the move
Wow big pick up. Parlay two young starters (not Nate) for a star OF now!
Wow! I didn’t think Atkins had the stones to pull it off!!
Atkins didn’t have the stones. This was not his doing.
So classless, JimmerMcGee. Crap on the front office for not signing players, refuse to give them credit when they do.
You are a fraud.
The faux outrage schtick is only like three years old now.
This wasn’t an Atkins signing. It was 100% Shapiro and if you read other posts I did complementing the BlueJays on the RYU signing even though the last year of the contract is likely going to be a write-off.
There is never a reason to insult any blogger in these posts. Let’s keep it baseball focused and polite. Thank you.
Bet there is a trade in the next week. The jays wanted Didi to play 2nd and also meet with moose at his home, i assume for the same reason, Atkins also said at the end of the year Hernandez may play 2nd. I have a feeling Biggio is being traded or moved to OF. Gurriel to 3rd, Bo ss, Hernandez 2nd?, Vlad 1st, Shaw LF, Biggio C.F. Grichuk RF, Jansen C. Bench Alford, Fisher, Urena and outside addition
Wtf
I want what he’s smoking
Ceasar Hernandez would be a nice add for them. Teo likely stays in CF/DH. I think they believe Biggio has the ability to play in the OF as well but likely he stays at 2B
Why would they move Gurriel to 3rd when he looked great in LF after he was moved there because he already couldn’t throw from 2nd base to 1st base without causing people in the stands to cower in fear? lmao and you’re going to suddenly move Biggio to CF? Also they probably won’t carry both Alford and Fisher on the bench, and if you’re expecting an outside bench addition then it would probably be one of those two guys who’d be dropped since you’re going to also have McGuire up as one of the two catchers.
Atkins said after the season Hernandez and Gurriel may move to the infield again. With the jays farm system its easier to fill 2nd base then CF
That’s so silly. Why is everyone so gung ho on moving gurriel back to the infield? Enough he was horrible there, and hes decent in the outfield. Vlad isn’t moving anytime soon, gonna have to get used to that. And Biggio is staying put at second, with possible time in the outfield. Hernandez will replace rowdy at first/DH eventually by the way his crap defense is going
Lourdes is staying in the OF, it’s not even a conversation.
More good news for the White Sox. I was worried the Twinkies might sign Hyun-Jin Ryu as the last remaining top free agent starting pitcher still on the board. It now appears Minnesota will have to address a significant addition to their rotation through a trade which will likely cost them a player off of their active roster or a solid prospect. With the Indians also looking to sell off additional players this offseason after already dealing Corey Kluber the White Sox just might become the top choice for the 2020 AL Central title by default. lol
Don’t look now but the Jays, who had literally no rotation two months ago, now have arguably a better rotation than some of the lower end projected contenders (Tampa Bay, Oakland, Minnesota, Milwaukee, etc). If they can shore up their bullpen (and not trade Giles), and get some minor league pitching deals for depth, and if the fielders take a step forward both with the bats and defensively (a lot of ifs), this team could be a wildcard contender.
Ill take the A’s and Rays youth upside over Tor any day. Bet money that Montas and Luzardo, as well as Morton and Snell each outproduce Ryu this season. I would take the bet that either the Rays or A’s have 5+WAR SPs more then Tor SPs this season!
Yikes, the Rays? This was a really good signing by the Jays, but the Rays have a really good staff now, and pitchers in the wings waiting to come up….
Yeah Tampa is good 1-5 with pretty enviable depth like 6-10 with some good upside sprinkled in if injuries pop up.
Dude, really? Morton, Snell, Glass, McKay, Chirinos/Yarbs is probably one of the strongest 1-5 in the game. OAK also has a really good 1-5 next year. You have guys like Tanner Roark and Chase Anderson as your hope (My Rays #5 and 6 starters are better than those guys; Chirinos/Yarbs). Let’s not get carried away here.
Dont forget Brett Anderson taking his HR/FB ways to TOR!
Angels, good pass
Except for the fact that they really needed another quality pitcher, you may be right. They just missed the entire FA SP market, though. Not like Bundy is going to fix the rotation.
Now that all the top FA SP’s are gone look for the Angels to trade Marsh and their top players at the mid and lower minors for one SP, sending their minor league system back 4 years to a time they were ranked at the bottom of the league.
As an Angels fan this has been a frustrating off season. Yes they addressed a need at 3b but still have the same overwhelming weakness at what wins championships.
They arent all that far from the bottom 10 still with the current crew. One top 100 prospect is 1/3 of the top 100 count of all but the Stros in the ALW. They have whats probably a tie for last on Farm value within there own division.
One of my favorite Dodgers. At least the hedge fund will have more moeny.
I wonder is Ryu friends with the new pitcher the jays signed. maybe part of the reason the went after him, i know he pitched in the NPB
Ryu is Korean ffs
They all look alike to him
Are you saying is not possible for Korean and Japanese people to be friends? Reverse racism is amazing when you have a cheerleader to back yourself up 😉
Calling that racism is a dumb*ss stretch.
Koreans and Japanese can be friends, of course. But there is some awful history between them. Some will not forget. Look it up.
They both pitched in the same league for years bro. I guess Dominicans and Puerto Ricans cant be friends by your logic either. Im so confused how what i said got twisted up like that. Have you experienced racism so often that you are jaded, if so i truly feel bad for you. My whole point was they both pitched in Japan, the NPB for years
If you get peak Ryu and Roark at the top of the rotation and mix in any amount of progress from Shoemaker, Borucki, Thornton and Pearson the jays suddenly look sneaky good.
Playoffs? Likely not. But they’ll be pushing .500
Wish people would quit talking about Pearson, he has a total of 18 innings pitched in AAA, let him get at least 100 + before we talk about him being brought up!
Unless Pearson somehow flops in AAA he will be up early in the 2020 season.
4 years for Ryu was always known. The Angels put a lot of hope on signing him and never were willing to go to 4 years.
So can Eppler please be willing to sacrifice SOMETHING for pitching. We’re at the point where just about any front of the line starter will do.
I’m looking back at that Kluber trade going. Sheet.
Eppler inability to get pitching, will lead to his dismissal.
I’m really surprised by this signing, but happy to hear it. It’s easy for the haters to be critical of Ryu as a pitcher, or for the Jays for signing him. But he’s much better than anyone we have, and we can afford him and can help us.
Huge overpay. He had over 33% of his career 13 WAR last season alone (5.1). I doubt he repeats that in a season and may not have a 5.1 WAR for that entire contract.
I guess the question is who you think you’re getting, and if you believe he turned a corner.
My favorite pitcher stats are probably era+ and FIP.
Granted, in 2018 ryu only made 15 starts.
But, his 2018/2019 era+ were 198/179, and FIP liked him for 3.00/3.10
He paired that with 1.008/1.007 whip rate, 1.0/0.8 hr per 9 rate, 1.6/1.2 BB per 9 (actually leading the league last year)…
For a team with payroll to spend, for this club I don’t think it really was an overpay.
There’s signs of consistency here, and I don’t recall anyone pointing that negative about Gerrit cole turning his corner in houston.
The talent is here I think to be a great signing. It’s the durability is the question that supresses the value, but, to save 12-15m off a strasburg/cole deal? Nice gamble
You keep saying this is an overpay. I don’t think you’ve been keeping up with the market. According to most commenters on these comment boards, 80% of the FA SP signings have been overpays. The market has irreversibly shifted. SP’s cost MORE than most fans think. Clearly. It’s going to get worse next year with a weaker FA SP market. Catch up. What once was an overpay…isn’t.
As an Angels fan I’m ok with them not signing him for that length and cost. Not that I’m content with the current rotation. But having Callaway will help. I just hope they don’t overeact and give up too much in a trade. No Marsh for Kulver but yes for Clevinger
*Kluber
They cant build a package for Clevinger that doesnt include 1-4 or 5 on the top prospect list! You dont get 3 years of control over an ace production pitcher without two top 100s of which LAA has Adell. Clevinger would cost Adell + Marsh and like 3 other lesser pieces minimum.
Still mad that Theo went with Brandon little over Pearson in 2017. Another big time whiff by the cubs in drafting pitching
Theo should be fired. This is just ridiculous.
Cubs brass has officially blown their 3rd offseason in a row, giving the fans a big F U once again. 4 years, 20M was a bit of an overpay for Ryu, but still doable if they were planning to trade Bryant. As of now, you only have 4 starters with a spot, 2 of which completely suck in Lester and Quintana, and one which is rarely healthy in Darvish. What now? Trade Bryant AND Contreras?? That is literally the only way to achieve a competitive rotation now. 4th, maybe 5th place finish with current roster.
The Cubs will not be worse than the Pirates or Reds next year
Are you serious? The Reds rotation is one of the best in the league with Gray, Castillo, Bauer, and Miley. Their offense is also going to be strong with Senzel. Suarez, Votto, Aquino, and now Moose 1-5 in the batting order. Lorenzen and Iglesias for back end relief and you have yourself a contender. I am huge Cubs fan, but it is obvious the Reds have the better team this year. Pirates have sneaky good young pitching but no offense, so they could finish anywhere from 3rd to 5th.
@megaj all of that was true last year and yet the Cubs still won 9 more games than the Reds
Yes, and they missed the playoffs. The Reds have added and improved this year, while the Cubs haven’t done anything except lose Hamels and pick up rock bottom throw away project players. Lester sucks. Quintana sucks. NO ACE. Which Darvish will show up? Which Kimbrel will show up? Will they stay healthy? How far will Baez fall off if the league doesnt’ throw him a strike? NO LEAD OFF HITTER. Will Rizzo’s back continue to be a problem? Will Ross be an effective manager? Who is playing CF? Who is playing 2B? WAY too many question marks for December 22. They needed a frontline starter to fill the hole left by Hamels. They whiffed. They will score some runs, and maybe Schwarber hits more than 40 homers, but they are a much worse team now than when they totally collapsed at the end of last season.
The Reds made their team better. The Cubs have gotten worse. They might not even have Kris Bryant in a few weeks. Could go either way. Pretty ignorant to dismiss them. Pirates are a different story.
They missed the playoffs because their offense was terrible, despite how good Suarez was and Raisel Iglesias lost 12 games, which a closer should never get.
What a Jim
Liking this a lot. I really didn’t expect them to go get him. Suddenly the rotation looks halfway decent (albeit with some questions regarding durability) with it being Ryu, Roark, Anderson, Yamaguchi (assuming that indeed goes through) and someone like Borucki or Thornton added in at the back end. I’d like to see them bring back Shoemaker (another one with durability issues of course) and send Borucki and Thornton to Buffalo for some extra seasoning but I don’t know if that will happen. And then of course there’s the beast of a man Nate Pearson looming on the horizon.
Very happy to get Shaw and Ryu all in the same day.
They should just double down darvish be available in January get him and Scharber for dh from cubs who are listening on darvish as a potential salary dump..give them a nice top three and a huge bat in that park at dh
Darvish is not waving the NTC
I believe Darvish has a full no trade and has stated recently that he is not willing to waive it.
Put Keuchel’s contract up against Ryu’s and TOR just won — and from the same agent for both.
You THINK they won.
Ryu comes with a much greater injury track record, and this deal is more money guaranteed.
But Ryu has a much higher ceiling and floor.
And the amazing thing is, he can hit them both at the same time.
As an Angel fan just want to give Billy Eppler a shout out.
Yes. I want him out too. I can’t watch another season with this kind of pitching.
Wouldn’t be surprised if they grabbed price too. Ryu, price, shoemaker could be ok. Pearson seems ready. Would be an ok rotation with some upside. Everyone else is cheap for the yrs of price.
Truly amazing – Angels fans still on here talking about how successful their offseason is… it’s befuddling.
Angels have been bested by, well everyone, but the Blue Jays, Diamondbacks, and ChiSox? And you’re still defending the pitching decisions, because “you’re glad your team didn’t overspend?” Well, lets just agree that Trout isn’t gonna get a ring before he retires.
Oh, and good job Jays, nice acquisition. I’m impressed and had no idea they were front runners for him.
Spoken like a true troll.
Troll? Speaking plainly about delusional fans that cannot accept their teams sucks? What is it about you and your insults? Let’s do this, go punch yourself, so I don’t have to, then come back and we will revisit this conversation since you don’t even know the definition of a troll, little buddy. But what you did, is actually in line with trolling, Mr. Merriam-Webster.
Plus read the real fan base that echos those sentiments.
seems like someone got triggered. The Hick seems angry haha
Kingslayer, Regardless of my convo with 5Tool, my point stands.
Good signing by Jays, Angels have work to do to be competitive.
I am glad you found humor in this, I think? But, calling an unknown individual a hick is probably inappropriate – just saying. Oh, and I’m happy, you should see when I get angry, it’s real fun…. for me.
Why not just post the last thing you said? Fans support their team, it’s nothing new or directly against you as a person. Clearly you’re instigating.
Because he’s an ignoramus who persistently calls out his incorrectly defined trolls. He’s annoying, I don’t like annoying, so I respond. I appreciate your suggestion, and many times I do, but girls like this don’t leave people alone. He’s a special brand of moron.
Trout is going to be on the wrong side of 30 for most of his 400M+ deal. I guarantee he cant keep up the pace he has currently been on as he loses a step. They probably already wasted his chance with them.
Dude gave them 10WAR for 500k multiple times which led to nothing. I doubt at 35 he will be similarly valuable at 35MM per year.
Oh and if this was the winter they had money just wait till next when Ohtani breaks the Arb system getting paid for his stats on both sides of the ball. I almost think they have to do separate hearings for him as a SP and Batter. If he has anything close to a good season he will cost near 10M as a first year eligible player, and cost 30M+ his final season before FA.
A team that literally lucks into Trout, and signing Ohtani cant play a single playoff series. Im sorry I find the LAA misfortune so funny. Lose the idiot owner, the stupid rock pile, and the armpit of LA Anaheim, and maybe the baseball gods will allow you to get swept in a playoff series again.
Let’s be fair, we don’t even need to look outside the AL East for 2 clubs with worse off seasons (so far) than the Angels.
Baltimore non-tendered what has to be their best player instead of offering a contract, and it wasn’t due to poor performance or any lack of money… Unless ownership was siphoning out the MASN money and needs to find a replacement as rulings keep falling against him, which, again is bad offseason news…
Then you have the Red Sox that well… haven’t done anything well yet. They jump up and down about wanting to cut payroll as a goal but not a mandate to crash under cbt. Ok. But all they’ve made are fringe moves to not retain low cost players, then in turn signing WORSE players for almost the same amount of money as they saved… effectively, as it sits, the team is worse now than September 30th, many affordable players that would get them a better shot at contention are gone, and, they’re still well above the CBT…. FOR NOW.
But, we’re talking as of right now who is losing the offseason. There’s 2 that the angels have beat…. FOR NOW.
If Ryu would only treat every year as if it was a contract year…perhaps then he’d be worth the contract.
If he could somehow repeat 2013/2019/2013/2013 that would be worth it but let’s be real… he won’t.
5Stool – appropriate name – Spoken like a sincere dummy. Do you have the fortitude the continue testing the limits of single-digit IQ? You’re really close, so don’t give up now, little one!
BTW, you notice how you are quite a bit slower than everyone else here? If not, spoiler alert; you really are.
You’re truly your own worst enemy. This man could save you or your loved one’s life one day. Do you think it’s helping the situation to talk to people that way? Would you want someone talking to your loved one like that? Lets try and relax. Why make enemies when you have nothing to gain from this?
You’ve missed past conversations where he does dumb things like this, wherein he does make it personal. So, I choose not to tolerate it. If I have to rely on him to save my life, or life of my loved one, I’m in big trouble anyway.
Look, I get your point, Bob, but why are you not using your high-road speech with him. He’s all over these forums. To answer your question, nobody likes to be spoken to that way, so when someone keeps pushing, I shut them down, hard, so they understand it’s not acceptable. It’s a lesson for him. And, one may consider you instigating by blaming the responder to the insult, not the original individual who insults.
I do appreciate your vehement defense of this guy, but your efforts may be better spent talking to him.
You’re like the teacher who suspends the kid who fights back….. weird, sir, unless you actually know him, then it makes sense…. and you should still talk to him.
Hey, you know, Bob.. it’s almost Christmas, so I’ll oblige. Didn’t mean to offend, sir. I don’t like keyboard warriors and bullies, so I counter strong. I hope you have a good Christmas with your family, sincerely, and I will follow your advice on this one.
That’s awesome. Thank you, you too
Peace be with you both….
Peace be with you both…
Jays able to get the last good one. I guess I’m happy. Stunned actually.
They went from being a 70 win club to a 71 win club.
What a shock! The Jays did good signing Ryu. He’ll fit in well in Toronto.
The contract is one year too long though and will be an albatross by its last year. I guess this was the Boras price to get him.
You know they had to throw in the 4th year but this might be the first good move by this FO.
J Happ seems to make the most sense for the Angels. I am not sure how much money would be coming or going but I doubt it cost them Adel or Marsh.
Lol it would cost them next to nothing let alone one of those guys
Got any 28 year olds in A ball? That’s about all it’ll take for Happ and millions of dollars coming back.
Happ plus his money will come without anything going back. If someone wants to just take Happ from NY the Yanks will do it in a heartbeat. But is Happ at 1/18M worth anything with the year he just had and his age?
Johnny, I gotta say, at this point I think the salary dump and open spot on the 40-man would be enough. They would not ask for Adell because it would be unreasonable…. if they (Yanks) started throwing in top pitching prospects it would change the whole dynamic.
Rumor is they were willing to pay price 60 over 3, if they weren’t getting something of good value along with him why not pay Ryu 80/4. Ryu has more upside, was dominate last season and helps shun yamaguchi adjust to the bigs and probably gets more out of shun as a faster rate, that has to be taken into account here and makes the deal look even better. If shun pitches to a decent era 3.5-3.8 i think Ryu is to thank. Shuns forkball is the key here not many throw it, If we get 3.3 out of Ryu and 3.65 out of Shun id take 2 years of that for 26 mil per.
How is Ryu’s Japanese?
Way to help the team in their contention window Twins. Same story every offseason. Just because you have money doesn’t mean you have the ability to spend it, Twins certainly DO NOT have this skill.
Agreed.
Donaldson too?
Juxtapose this against the Orioles, who were so cheap and disinterested in competing that they wouldn’t even tender a contract to arguably their best player last year (Villar).
Anyone think Biggio and 2 young pitchers gets Arenado here?
Not even close.
What if they threw in a few cases of Crown Royal?
Even with Arenado’s massive contract? I mean, part of the Arenado play for CO is salary dump…
Thought he’d landed with MIN for 3 yrs- $60M.. good for him. New Ace for TOR.
*thought he would have
Ryu is nowhere near an “ace.”
In waht phony cartoon universe is 2nd in Cy Young voting not an “Ace”?
Justin Verlander is an “ace,” one of maybe 6-7 aces in all of baseball. Ryu is not an ace, not by any reasonable definition of the term.
wym ?
Wow I think the Blue Jays have legitimately made themselves a playoff contender with the slew of moves they’ve made today and the past couple of weeks. They added Travis Shaw this morning – who if he can get back to the type of player he was in 2017/18 gives them a nice veteran bat to their young core of talented bats. Now adding Ryu as their ‘Ace’ to a Pitching staff they overhauled with the likes of Roark and Anderson and you’re looking at a team that (assuming the young guys take steps forward as expected) could legitimately be in play for a wild-card spot next season. Impressive off-season to say the least for the Jays.
Not really a WC team yet IMO. However if Pearson is the real deal, the kids on offense progress, they add in another real bat, work out the pen. Okay a WC chance is in the conversation if things go well.
At the very least they should with minor adjustments have a real chance at a .500 level team
The Jays next 4 years:
2020. Jays young core develops and Pearson is called up the beginning of August and the Jays improve to 80-82.
2021. Jays sign/trade for top SP and OF and Pearson, Ryu, et al have good seasons as Jays win 89 games and challenge for a wild card spot.
2022. Jays young core hit their stride and become stars, Jays win AL East but fall in AL Championship series.
2023. Jays win WS, extend MVP Bo Bichette and WS MVP Vlad Guerrero and Pearson pitches to 380 strikeouts and 22 wins and Ryu wins 18 games.
I like smoking too
Those are some blue jays colored glasses you are wearing lol
I don’t want to live in this future world you speak of.
Wow Frank. That’s only assuming the young core develops into quality. Reality is some will and some won’t. Even the so called stars-to-be.
Can’t wait until Billy Eppler is fired.
it’s not really his fault. not that he has been great. it is the owner who decided to spend $35 mil per season behind epp’s back. then it sure looks like he closed the checkbook and lock it in a safe.
It’s entirely his fault. To sit there and be satisfied with his rotation after acquiring Bundy and Teheran shows you how incompetent he is. Can’t wait until both those guys produce similar results to Cahill and Harvey in 2020.
last offseason eppler wanted to sign a lh relief pitcher as a final piece. arte stopped him by saying he was losing money. a lefty wouldn’t have cost much and, in the end, might have not made any difference. but ‘losing money?’ then this offseason he chased cole and signed a 3b.
Did Eppler overrule his GM to sign Hamilto/Pujols/CJ and trade for Vernon Wells. Eppler has been trying to bandaid together a winner from a broken set of parts. He started rebuilding the farm but needs more faster then he will get.
Simmons FA next year along with La Stella, with most of the pitchers that have value in the next two years, as well as the cost Ohtani will bring in Arb.
This team is so F*ed with almost no shot at real contention before Trout is 34 if they tore it down this year and traded everything but Trout.
Omg no!!!! I can’t wait either. You must have worked in an MLB front office or something to have soo much insight. Tell me more abput how you are smarter than the GMs that get paid hundreds of thousands to do a job you could only dream of haha lol.