Derek Jeter and Larry Walker have been inducted into the National Baseball Hall of Fame, the Baseball Writers Association of America announced Tuesday evening. Jeter, predictably, has been enshrined in his first year of eligibility. However, the longtime Yankees shortstop was not unanimously elected, as he was omitted from one lone ballot. Walker, meanwhile, has at last reached the 75 percent vote threshold in his 10th and final season of eligibility on the BBWAA ballot. He appeared on 76.6 percent of this year’s ballots.
Among notable misses, Curt Schilling saw another increase, appearing on 70 percent of this year’s ballots — up from 60.9 percent in last year’s balloting. Roger Clemens (61 percent), Barry Bonds (60.7 percent) and Omar Vizquel (52.6 percent) were the only others to secure a vote on even half of this year’s ballots. That marks a bit more than a one percent increase for both Clemens and Bonds but represents a notable jump up from 42.8 percent for Vizquel.
There was never a shred of doubt that Jeter, a former AL Rookie of the Year, five-time World Series champion, five-time Gold Glover, five-time Silver Slugger and 14-time All-Star would be enshrined in Cooperstown. The 45-year-old, now the CEO of the Miami Marlins, played in 20 Major League seasons and compiled a .310/.377/.440 batting line along the way.
In that time, Jeter racked up 3465 hits, scored 1923 runs, knocked in 1311 men, clubbed 260 home runs and swiped 358 bases. Those 3465 hits rank Jeter sixth in Major League history, trailing only Pete Rose, Ty Cobb, Hank Aaron, Stan Musial and Tris Speaker. Jeter also ranks 11th all-time in runs scored and 35th in doubles (544).
Of course, Jeter is known every bit as much for his postseason excellence as his regular-season dominance. He appeared in an incredible 158 postseason games and tallied 734 plate appearances in that time, hitting .308/.374/.465 with 20 home runs, 32 doubles and five triples. Jeter was named the MVP of the 2000 World Series after he went 9-for-22 with two homers, two doubles and a triple to lead the Yankees past the Mets. His 2001 postseason is arguably even more memorable, however, as it was in the ALDS against the Athletics that Jeter’s heady “flip play” was a pivotal moment, and his iconic walk-off home run against the D-backs in Game 4 of the World Series earned him the nickname “Mr. November.”
In all, Jeter’s brilliant regular-season career was valued by Baseball-Reference.com at 72.4 wins above replacement. FanGraphs pegged him at an even 73 WAR. Coupled with his legendary postseason track record, that made Jeter among the most obvious Hall of Famers in recent balloting history — although it’s nevertheless a shocking to see him omitted from a ballot. Once Jeter’s longtime teammate, Mariano Rivera, finally set the precedent for unanimous enshrinement, the expectation had been that others would follow. Perhaps that’ll still be the case, but Jeter was clearly a worthy recipient of such an honor and still fell shy by the slightest of margins.
Turning to Walker, the longtime Rockies and Expos star might’ve been voted in years ago were it not for many voters taking his stats with a grain of salt thanks to the hitter-friendly nature of Coors Field, where he played his home games from 1995-2004. It’s become increasingly difficult to vote against Walker, however. The Canadian-born superstar’s list of accolades certainly feel Cooperstown-worthy.
The National League MVP in 1997, Walker is a seven-time Gold Glover, three-time Silver Slugger and three-time batting champ. Many feel that he was a frequent All-Star snub — only appearing in the Midsummer Classic on five occasions — but Walker’s production arguably speaks even louder than his awards history. In 8030 plate appearances over the life of 17 MLB seasons, Walker hit .313/.400/.565 with 383 home runs, 1355 runs scored, 1311 runs batted in and 230 stolen bases.
Beyond his three batting titles, Walker twice led the Senior Circuit in on-base percentage, slugging percentage and OPS. That outstanding slash line translates to a tremendous 141 OPS+ and 140 wRC+, suggesting that the ultra-consistent Walker’s bat was about 40 percent better than that of a league-average hitter over the course of his career. Even at the end of his career, in his age-37 and age-38 seasons with the Cardinals, Walker’s .286/.387/.520 slash was nothing short of brilliant. Baseball-Reference’s version of WAR put Walker right alongside Jeter (72.7), while FanGraphs valued his career at 68.7 WAR.
Both Jeter and Walker are highly deserving of the honor they’ll receive this July when they take their place alongside the elite and entrench themselves in the annals of baseball’s history. Congratulations to the game’s two newest Hall of Famers.
Can we take away the one person’s vote who didn’t vote for Jeter?
-A Red Sox Fan
Who was the fool that didn’t vote for Jeter?
Me.
Schilling was robbed again.
Not unanimous. Oh well. He’s in and that’s all that matters. Very glad Larry is.
Thankfully Walker got in. It’s a shame that it was still so close there.
Probably the same guy who didn’t vote Griffey in
Schilling should’ve made it but other than that it’s ok
Amen
He was never that good
No Schilling? Garbage. As is Jeter not being unanimous. What a joke.
I can’t say I’m sorry Schilling didn’t make it, but I don’t know how you don’t vote for him. As for Jeter, how is he not unanimous?
There should be dozens of unanimous Hall of Famers. So Jeter is in good company.
Is your view political? If so, this is about baseball
he’s actually being quite equitable
[fart sound effect]
So happy for Larry Walker. One of the most complete ballplayers I have ever seen. Just excelled in all areas.
Hard for anyone to be a complete player when they miss a month of games every year.
He couldn’t stay on the field and was good, not great, outside of Coors. Those are big holes in his game.
Coors Field is an MLB-caliber ballpark, just like all the others. It can’t be a disqualifying factor in the voting process unless nuances in ballpark construction is punished the same way for every ballpark.
The big factor against Water is his inability to stay on the field. No way his vote total should have so dramatically increased in one year.
Mantle had a problem staying “on the field”.
Did Walker hit 500 hrs when 500 meant something?
Walker’s road OPS was higher than Ken Griffey Jr, Jim Rice, Orlando Cepeda Reggie Jackson, George Brett, Andre Dawson, Billy Williams, and other MLB Hall of Famers. road OPS.
Obviously that’s from the years of him playing at Coors as an away player.
Sarcasm, folks.
The game has changed. The guys mentioned drove in runs regardless if it meant giving themselves up as an out. Also what is the sample size? He never played 150 games in a season. Did he?
140 OPS+ for his career seems pretty stellar. Isn’t OPS+ park independent?
Larry could’ve DH’ed in the American League and played for years like Baines but he was far too athletic, fast and had a rifle arm so a few games a year for “load management” is all right.
If I were a betting man, I’d be in Chapter 11 heaven based on Jeter’s non unanimous selection
I’ll bet my life that the one tool who didn’t vote for Derek is a Boston writer. I’ll go even further by saying he or she is from the Boston Globe.
Billy Wagner needs to be in.
facts
Whoever didnt vote for Jeter should be impeached.
There working on it!
Maybe they were big fans of defense and power hitting?
Thankfully Schilling didn’t make it.
He will soon and he should.
Definitely not deserving. Average pitcher at best.
average? el oh el
Career:
fWAR: 79.8
W-L: 216-146
INN: 3261.1
K: 3116
ERA: 3.46
FIP: 3.23
AND he walked less than 2 batters per 9…
3x WS champion and WS MVP in 2001 and that’s where it really counts
lol that’s an ace or at a minimum, a really really good number 1
(I’m not even a big Schilling fan but he deserves it)
Learn how to read a stat line before commenting.
Arguably the greatest post season pitcher of all time. Him and madbum a close 2nd.
He will get in should be in and you can deal with it in therapy if you need to.
If you started watching baseball in 2000…
Average? Possibly the best playoff pitcher ever. He was a main factor on three different championship clubs.
Why? Politics and baseball are separate entities. Get a life
But, but….. he’s a RACIST! It must be true – I read it on the internet!
Why?
Larry Walker is the best Canadian in the half.
The one child Jeter diddled abstained.
Seriously, these a-holes that try to make a name for themselves by being ‘the one’ is insane.
Great to see such a talented, well deserving, all around baseball player get in the Hall. Congrats to Jeter, too.
Probably the same moron who didn’t vote for Griffey!
You mean 1 of 3 morons that didn’t vote for Griffey?
So many better players than Jeter have not been unanimous choices for the Hall of Fame.
Bonds and Clemens deserve to be in the HOF. I’m hoping they are both elected next year. It would be intersting to see them enshrined together,and what they would say in their speeches. Fred McGriff, Gary Sheffield and Manny Ramirez deserve to be in as well, but never will be.
Happy for Larry Walker,and I took a piss next to Derek Jeter one time at a club in inner harbor, Baltimore. I was drunk and I look next to me and the most famous baseball player in MLB at the time was in the next urinal lol. Well deserved.
Why do thieves deserved to be enshrined in a Hall of Fame?
Bonds and Clemens stole for teams, fans, owners and players. They don’t “deserve” to be honored.
They’re still two of the greatest examples baseball has ever had. They should get in and baseball should move on from the steroid era. Even if you want to look at an entire era as tainted, it’s still part of baseball history. We should honor that history.
Exactly.
Right after we give Al Capone a Congressional Medal of Honor, we should put Bonds and Clemens in the HOF.
Two of the greatest examples of cheating baseball has ever had.
the only situation in which id accept those two in would be one that doesnt lead to the other users like Manny and Sosa getting in. the only reason why Clemens and Bonds have a case os they were so good that even if they were juiced when they played, they were probably good enough to be hall of famers without PEDs. still, that’s a risky bet and a slippery slope, and cheaters are cheaters. i wouldnt vote for them.
No they do not.
Please don’t put those egomaniac, self centered cheaters in the same discussion as crimedog who truly is deserving
Congrats to both Jeter and Walker.
Larry Walker got denied the Hall for years for an absolutely bogus reason. I’m glad that he didn’t have to wait for the Veterans Committee to do right by him.
If he didn’t get in, you may as well have just contracted the Rockies. Gonna take away their first World Series because it came at altitude?
What’s the bogus reason?
The fact he couldn’t stay on the field and wasn’t a great hitter outside of Coors sounds like two very good reasons.
His road OPS was .50 points higher than Jeters total ops, while playing better defense. Stop making stuff up. He was a great player and if you’re going to punish his hitting stats because of altitude, you can not in the same breath punish his durability in it. May as well just contract the Rockies if that’s how people actually think.
JD. What made Jeter special like him or not was he did it on a repeat winning club under big city pressure and did the little things that helped produce championships. My biggest gripes were he was overrated as a shortstop and I couldn’t stand the time he stole first base when the ball didn’t hit him. I argued then that was not gamesmanship because he fooled the umpire not the opposition.
Some Boston writer wanted to be important hahahahaha
Who the F**** didn’t vote for Derek Jeter? As a long time Braves fan I find this appalling. This guy was a true class act and a spectacle to watch.
I told some friends earlier that if I had a vote, I would have left Jeter off this year…NOT because he’s not a slam-dunk HoFer, but because the 10 vote limit still exists for some idiotic reason and I would rather use the vote on someone who needs the help rather than the absolutely sure-fire Jeter.
Your comment makes sense. Seems arbitrary for there to be a limit of 10 each year and there are many writers out there who don’t even know who half of these guys are or what they did as a player.
So, IMO if you’re a HOFer you don’t need help getting in.
@BKS1110
So who are the 10 HOF worthy players that got the votes instead of Jeter? Walker and who are the other 9 still on the ballot?
But I don’t care, He got in.
Well deserved. Both were tremendous players. It’s kind of fun to think about how far the Expos and Larry Walker would’ve gone in 1994 had the strike not happen.
Larry Walker long over due. Watching him it was clear he was a cut above and an obvious HOF’er a bonified stud. Congrats
How many more years are bonds and Clemens on the ballot before the are removed?
Hopefully none
Two ,and I hope they give the writers the finger and refuse to accept the award when they finally get in.. Schilling at 9 percentage points better than Clemens, I almost peed myself laughing at the incompetence of these clowns who vote..
Larry Walker. ABOUT FREAKING TIME!!
When I lived in Boston, everyone there called him f$#$@#n’ Jettah. I hope he goes into the Hall of Fame under that name.
Derek Jeter: Hall of Fame hitter, Hall of Shame fielder. I am thankful that one person didn’t buy into the hype. And no, I am not a Red Sox fan.
What hype? He was a class act, productive championship player. You can dislike him personally but he helped make baseball a better game for future generations.
Only fair to add that Jeter’s persona is partially as a result of media hype.. And I also agree his fielding wasn’t very good, and at a very important position, too. But he’s certainly worthy of the Hall Of Fame.
He was a great player but this Jeter love fest is way to much. Walker had a better career War and it took him ten years.
Shoot I was know of the people who said Mariano Rivera shouldn’t be unanimous. He was the greatest relief pitcher of all time. But he was still a relief pitcher.
SS vs. OF.
Larry Walker playing at Coors during the steroid era is enough for the Hall?
exactly…i’m sho0cked he got in. HOF is very watered down now.
NOW? It was “watered down” the day Rizzuto was voted in.
Holy Cow, Murcer.
Lysander, I must vehemently disagree. Scooter was definitely a HOF announcer.
It wouldn’t make sense to have Jim Rice or Harold Baines in the Hall of Fame and not Larry Walker.
Barry Bonds was an amazing player, easily most productive player during my time! He obviously played great during his early years while NOT on PEDs and does anyone think he was only like 1 of 5 players on PEDs towards end of his career??? You’re a complete fool if you think so. Bottom line is for probably a 10-12 year stretch there were dozens if not hundreds of MLB players on PEDs.
I’ll wait for the people to say, “oh yeah, what proof do you have”. It’s called owners & players wanted to make money & bring fans back to game in the mid 90s and beyond. Also, I have eyeballs and practically half the pitchers & hitters in Mlb looked like middle line backers- Caminiti, Sosa, McGwire, A Rod, Clemens, Petite, etc.
Then why did he do PEDs if he was so great? Stupid decision and now he’s not in.
that’s like assuming rich people dont want to get richer.
He wanted an edge, which is the same reason why the other guys that used PEDs used them.
Glas to see Jeter didn’t get 100%. Jeter didn’t deserve 100% votes. Neither did rivera. If griffey didn’t get it, Jeter and a freakin closer shouldn’t be close to 100% of the votes.
I don’t think it’s meant to work as a percentage system, like a test. It’s dishonest to not include a HOFer on your ballot because you want to avoid a specific number. That said, the writer may have had a legitimate reason for leaving him off, although I cannot think of one. Either way, I don’t care, he’s in and he should be.
Atta boy Larry!!!!
Until Pete rose gets in its as useless to me as the wwe hall of fame.
I see they’re as determined as ever to drag the baseball hall of fame down to the same level of talent as the football hall of fame. Walker is not as undeserving as Harold freakin Baines, but dang, the only hall of fame caliber seasons that Walker had were with the Rockies and the juiced ball of early Coors Field. The numbers he put up in a couple of those seasons make the best offensive seasons from seasons players had in 2019 look downright puny. Just shows you how much of a joke his stats really are. Congrats to Jeter though, well-deserved,
what idiot didn’t vote for Jeter? they should never be able to vote again, no reasonable person could argue that vote, and this from a huge red Sox fan
Barry Bonds should be in the hall of fame no question. Yea he took roids but that alone didn’t make him one of the best and most feared hitters in the history of the sport. The HOF voters have never played the sport professionally so they have zero idea how difficult it is to hit a baseball in the mlb. There is nobody in the history of the sport that has hit more homeruns, how tf is that not in the hall. It’s a joke when you have guys from the deadball era who bragged about cheating (spitballs, scuffball, pine tar) still in the hall.
The problem with Bonds is that everyone saw the good early years, and his potential for the HOF. However, they argue against putting him there because of cheating and lying within the game itself. Also, nobody knows where the great player ended and the steroids / HGH took over. Too muddy to discern the difference. You can take that thought to the next level and say if Don Mattingly wasn’t injured….
Anyway, he also broke records that he would not have broken if not for the steroids, building his resume and mocking the game itself. He chose his pathing knowing the consequences and he shouldn’t get it all.
If you want to split the baby, take only the years he was definitely not using and see if he makes it then. He won’t.
Schilling not in is ridiculous. Steroids are one thing but being of a different political viewpoint??
I’d vote for him but the political viewpoint of murdering journalists isn’t exactly political.
That has nothing to do with electing him
You actually believe Schilling advocated for the murdering of journalists?
Yes, he does. Any person with some intelligence knows Schilling did not advocate murdering journalists. Some people can’t keep up.
You’re an idiot.
We all just pointed that out for you JD. I thought you frowned on name calling on the boards? Hypocrite.
Please let it be Greg Cote!
Cincinnati could have picked Jeter but deferred in order to pick Chad Mattola who amassed 25 career hits
Most overrated player in modern history. He wasn’t even one of the top 3 players for a single season.
Horn’d up New Yorkers getting another very good player into the hall of greats.
3,465 Hits says otherwise.
Find that person. Take their vote away. It’s ridiculous.
Question for everyone, obviously there’s many greats in the HoF but who are the say, the top 5 ever to be inducted?
Of those 5 who are unanimous? Yes the voting has changed over the years but I believe Jeter should not be unanimous even if there are greats who I believe much better than him weren’t unanimous. I am grateful he is not unanimous, as talented as he is he doesn’t deserve to be there with Mo.
Schilling continues to get snubbed over reasons not even remotely related to baseball.
Amen Bro.
I think it has more to do with the fact that he can’t keep his mouth shut, I’m a Boston fan and appreciate what he did for the Red Sox, but he is a jerk, I believe he will get in but I think that the BBWA will let him sweat it out to the last year of his eligibility
He’s a “jerk” because you have political disagreements? Really?
If Griffey can narrowly miss a unanimous voting, Jeter can probably handle it too. Hope he goes in with his Marlins hat on!
Fred McGriff, Steve Garvey, Gary Sheffield, Carlos Delgado, Dave Parker, and a bunch of others have to be looking at Harold Baines and Larry Walker making the Hall of Fame and ask themselves “what the f………..”
McGriff yes.
Dave Parker? He was a good player, but a career WAR of 40, Garvey is at 38 , Delgado 44, walker is at 72. Stats aside did ever see any of these guys play? These players aren’t in the same league not a great take
Put McGriff in Colorado and he routinely hits 40-45 bombs per year.
Put Sheffield in Colorado and he routinely hits 45-50 bombs per year.
Put Delgado in Colorado and he routinely hits 50+ with a 60 burger for a season. Also not entirely sure Walker was clean IMO.
Larry Walker was one of the greatest all-around players the game has ever seen. , He could do it all to the highest degree. He epitomised the overused phrase”5 tool player” Larry had to wait this long because of where he spent the biggest part of his career, a place where hitters are unfairly stigmatised.
i think McGriff should be in, but i dont think even he stacks up to Walker here, much less the rest of your list. Baines? maybe. Walker? heck no.
I don’t care what anyone says, Jeter is the most overrated player in the history of MLB. No way in he** he should be unanimous
Ozzie Smith has something to say about that
3465
@WillieMaysHayes24
3rd highest WAR among all SS in the last 100 years says “Hi”.
6th in hits among all players and 1st among SS says “whatchu talkin bout Willis”?
Rose, Cobb, Musial, Aaron and Speaker are the ONLY players with more hits than Jeter. That’s meaningful. Just because he gets talked about a lot doesn’t mean he’s “overrated”. No one in NY, aside from that reporter honestly think he was a better SS than Ripken and most will say Jeter’s bat puts him ahead of Smith by a small margin. But still an all-time great. Who cares if 1 guy didn’t vote for him. It’s been the same for some all-time greats too.
Fun fact: no one should ever be unanimous. Rivera should never have been, but in doing so, he stole votes away from Bonds, Clemens et al. guys who should be in too. Closers aren’t THAT valuable, you guys. Bonds was miles and miles a more important player to Rivera. He won 7 MVPs. You can’t compare the stratosphere, just because Mo was lucky enough to be on the Yankees and not the Mariners, there goes most of his big personal moments – and he blew a WS too! That alone should have knocked him back down to 90% where he belonged.
The only reason why we got a unanimous player, is because a lot of voters are massive losers who hate the game. Bonds, Clemens, Jeter, Walker, Schilling, Rolen, Manny, A Jones, Helton, Sheffield, Abreu, Pettitte and Sosa all should have gone in this year.
I hear they gonna re-retire his #2 but now it’s gonna be .2? Any truth to that?
Dave Williams was the writer that didn’t vote for Jeter pbs.twimg.com/media/EO1_AKFW4AMrV41?format=jpg…
Good
Whitesoxdave from Barstool Sports @barstoolWSD
What the hell is that absurdity of a ballot? Did he just throw darts at the dam thing? How do guys like that get a vote, yet others who passionately write about the sport in good faith for over a decade remain on the outside looking in?
Turns out that is a fake ballot.
Larry walker??? Please. I understand he was a good player.. but nice guys don’t always finish first. Great dude but come on.. not for the hall. Carlos Delgado.. fred mcgriff.. Jeff Kent. Dave Parker… I mean do these guys have to die to be elected?? Larry Walker??? It’s ridiculous
Kent? Show me some gold gloves first
Kent was a beast of a hitter. Arguably the best hitter at his position. FG is right about Delgado (travesty he was off the ballot 1st time around) and McGriff.
Parker was better than Baines and should now get a second look.
I believe Kent isn’t in the HOL because of his horrific mustache choice.
Larry Walker is as at worst very close to any of those players offensively and has much more value defensively and running the bases. He was a 5 tool player, none of the others you mention were and I’d vote for at least Kent and McGriff for sure.
@Fg-3
Albert Belle should absolutely be in the HOF. His career was cut short due to a hip injury (at age 33) but in his 10 year career he averaged…
153 games-177 hits-38 doubles-38 homers-123 rbi-and a .933 OPS. In his defense, he was never mentioned to be a PED user during the time when steroids were in rampant use. During his career from 1991-200 he ranks 4th in homers with only Griffey, McGwire and Bonds ahead of him. In fact, during that 10 years span the ONLY guys NOT associated with PEDs are Griffey (#1), Belle (#4) and Thomas (#8) and Bagwell (9th). Pure beast. Offers nothing on defense and was an a-hole to the media but he deserves in the same way other guys who are in the hall but had their careers cut short from an injury like Puckett.
Albert Belle hurt the feelings of many members of the BBWAA. It also sounds like he was a terrible person. Nonetheless, should be in the Hall of Fame and to be dropped off the ballot so quick is a travesty.
Andro is a PED, Bagwell used and it was an illegal substance in Canada when Montreal was still in the NL. Bagwell is associated.
I Really never cared for the writers having the fate of a premier baseball player for the Hall of Fame, most of these dweebs never played the game, I really like to take a look at the idiot that didn’t vote for Jeter, or Griffey or Seaver etc. Seriously !!! I would much rather see a board made up of ex ballplayers, managers, coaches .
Not having played the game shouldn’t be an issue in any case – just follow the game, do your job as a journalist and vote honestly.
Throw in broadcasters too.
Agreed. BBWAA have been an embarrassment. The votes should go to current living members of the Hall.
Every year I get a little annoyed that Bonds and Clemens don’t get in. Then I remember that petty grudges and unsolicited moralizing are what the BBWAA is all about, and unless you’re one of said writers or a player on the ballot, none of this means anything.
Jeter is a roided up cheater who played with a team of cheaters. Then he bought a club to give the Yanks a AAAA ball team. This clown should be banned for and dang sure shouldn’t be in the HOF. To bad only 1 voter got it right
Sigh…..let it out, let it out….
Too bad your parents felt the need to reproduce.
No Schilling? Jeter not unanimous? Evidence # 2,187 that sportswriters are as idiotic as political writers…..
So the worst defensive shortstop of all time gets elected to the hall because he played in New York. What a joke. Jeter is a clown, and the Yankees cheated to win. Another chapter in the circus that used to be MLB.
3,465
Anyone who doesn’t think Larry Walker is a Hall of Famer, just doesn’t get baseball. Congrats to two exceptional players and exceptional men.
Sorry bud… Larry is a hall of good players. But not a all time great. Good is different
Good for both. Walker is over due for that call.
How could anyone actually think Jeter is not a hall of fame player? I’m not a Yankees fan so it’s not a biased question. Only logical answer for leaving him off is the current voting/ballot rules. If said writer knew he’d get in and wanted the space to vote for a different player. Which shows a flawed system.
Good for the Rockies, only good news they will get for a while
We need robot voters for the Hall of Fame. You’re either in or not. One vote when you’re eligible. This unanimous thing is stupid. Who cares anymore. And absolutely PED’s are infinitely worse than stealing signs, holy cow, that’s a no-brainer. Anyone who thinks that occasionally getting to know what pitch is coming versus being permanently jacked to another level is even remotely close is a fool. Get a clue people.
PED’s only keep you healthy, dont make you good at baseball.
Stealing signs only makes you good at baseball. You have absolutely no grasp of logic and reason, or you think pumping iron literally is the same as hitting a baseball. Both are wrong.
It’s basic logic you are arguing against, and its because ESPN has warped an entire generation of minds to put it on the same obtuse level as high crime, when the NFL actively allows PEDs and most other leagues on the planet do too. MLB’s draconian ideas of what PEDs are have destroyed any chance you have of making a logical argument for them actually being “Cheating” in baseball. You don’t get a hit by bench pressing 500 pounds.
Don’t blame ESPN for you being wrong. Also, the NFL doesn’t allow PEDs so you’re wrong on that too, as evidenced by the fact that Josh Gordon was suspended indefinitely for using them.
Played softball with a guy who was severely pumped, totally musclebound, but my sister could hit better – literally. The only benefit is the promotion of healing and getting back on the field faster. Probably a benefit to NFL lineman, but not MLB.
PEDs doesn’t make you a good hitter but they will help turn an already good and talented hitter into an even better one.
If it didn’t help why did it take McGwire and Sosa to whole new levels? Why did it make Bonds a better player? Why would any player risk the health consequences? Why would they deny before any rule was established? It won’t make you good at baseball, it’ll make a good player better. It also forces peers to have to make bad life decisions to try to stay up with cheaters. Much worse than stealing signs for that reason alone.
while i think Jeter was overrated, theres still no doubt he should be in the hall. whoever didnt vote for him should indeed have their voting privileges removed.
No, that’s wrong. They knew he was getting in and used their vote to keep another guy on the ballot another year.
We don’t need nor should we have unanimous players in the HOF. As a matter of fact, we should be getting at least 10 HOFers every year, but the writers are doing the public a disservice by keeping a petty, worthless (you cant reverse history, you arent going to nullify every title from 1980-2020 just because there was probably a PED user in the org at at least one moment) narrative alive.
I agree. I don’t he was an elite player, but he certainly had an elite career. How is it possible that a writer didn’t think Jeter was HOF material? No one hates the Yankees more than me, but that’s ridiculous.
That vote made no difference whatsoever. So the guy gets in with 99.6% instead of 100%. What does it matter? They don’t make the plaques out of gold instead of bronze with a unanimous selection. Jeter and Walker will have the same plaque even though one got in at 99.6% in his first year and the other 76.6% in his 10th.
People really worry way too much about voting percentages. After 75%, it’s really all just gravy anyway.
Hard to overrate 3,465 hits
Curt Schilling being snubbed once again is absurd. For those writers keeping him out due to Curt’s political rhetoric; I find it funny you cannot cite actual facts to back up your belief. It’s fine to think he is stupid or ignorant, but that’s not supposed to keep him out of Cooperstown.
Does anyone know how many guys have been elected on their final ballot? And can we find out how many have been elected in their final year within the last 20 years? Just curious because there seems to be a pattern which isn’t a good look for the BBWAA for all the complaining they have done over the years.
Predicting Scott Rolen gets in within 3 years.
Why call it the Hall of Fame when you have Pee Wee Reese and Phil Rizzuto in there?
The HOF is not some holy sepulcher. It’s a baseball museum. Pete Rose should be in there and when you put him in there explain he also gambled on Baseball. Same goes for guys like Bonds and Clemons.
If Bud Selig is in there and the racists (and we know there were plenty of those) then there is no excuse for anyone else.
Finally, stop with the writers voting! Players, managers, coaches, and GM should be the only ones who vote. Period FULL STOP!
Whomever omitted him should be banned from ever voting again. This is mind boggling!
Yeah because that one vote really makes a difference. Just for a second think about what you are saying. That extra vote is not going to make the HOF custodian shine his plaque just a little more. 75% is what you need, you don’t get a bonus for more votes.
Larry Walker is the first ever person to wear the Colorado Rockies uniform to be enshrined. The franchise never even had an end of the career stop like the Rays and Wade Boggs or the Marlins with Andre Dawson. The closest until now was Dale Murphy.
It’s about time the Rockies have been allowed to join MLB in the HOF.
Great for Jeter, we loved to hate him in Boston! Miss the rivalry.
If Felix Hernandez took PED’s for Atlanta and won back to back Cy Young’s at ages 34 and 35 and went on to pitch 9 more years after that winning more games and Cy Young’s and World Championships, that wouldn’t be nearly as bad as stealing signs, and yet that’s exactly what Roger Clemens did, but it’s ok, put him in the Hall of Fame. Pathetic.
PEDs are not a miracle cure. Do you know how many scrubby players used steroids and failed to turn into superstars? Look up Manny Alexander or Dan Naulty or Tom House.
And you can’t compare Clemens to a contemporary pitcher because players weren’t drug-tested during most of his career. Felix would likely get caught juicing before too long, but Clemens got away with it much longer due to the era he played in.
I also believe PEDs are morally much worse for a modern player because of the clear legal codification prohibiting them. Just like a bank selling subprime mortgages in 2020 would cause outrage, but was part of the “way of the world” back then. It’s still a sin, but a forgivable one, all things considered.
Whyhazy you’re only saying that because the Sox stand accused of stealing signs. So transparent.
My favorite Jeter moment was game one of the 2012 ALCS against Detroit.
The argument that “Player X would have made the HOF even if he didn’t use steroids” is not a good excuse to ignore actual reality and create an alternate reality where you guess whether or not they would have made the HOF if they didn’t cheat even though they did.
It’s the reason Player X should have never cheated in the first place.
There’s no legitimate argument to make that Jeter doesn’t belong in the Hall of Fame. Is he Inner Circle? No, and I don’t hear people insisting that he is. He’s in, he’s not unanimous, and we ought to give Walker and those who didn’t make it more attention.
If Jeter played for any other team, he doesn’t get in the HOF. Total sham, fraud, media hiney-kisser.
3,465 hits, ANYONE gets into the HOF with 3,465 Hits. ANYONE.
3,465 hits, #6 All-Time says you don’t know what you’re talking about.
@ChiSoxCity
Name me 1 non-PED affiliated player not named Rose, with 3,00 hits that’s not in the HOF or eligible for enshrinement. He doesn’t exist.
Honest question for thought: if Derek jeter had identical numbers across the board but played for the brewers or A’s, does he still get this amount of votes on his first time on the ballot?
Pretty much, 3,465 hits is 6th all time, that’s a pass even if you play in Miami. I say that as someone who thought Jeter was overrated and the least talented of the big 3 SSs but he was able to be very good for a very long time.
He would have gotten in regardless of where he played. Although he would have probably taken a lot of scrutiny as an “accumulator” had he played in Milwaukee or Oakland or Miami. Just look at Craig Biggio. He had over 3000 hits and it still took 3 ballots to get him to squeak into the Hall. Jeter in Miami is much closer to Biggio than Honus Wagner or Cal Ripken. That’s not necessarily an insult, Biggio is still a HOFer. Just not the best of the best.
3465 end of story for any ball player not named Derek Jeter.
Awesome. I’m elated Walker overcame all the Rockies hate and lack of early support. It felt like a grassroots blogging effort helped get him enshrined. Now let’s get Schilling, Wagner, and Kent in there too.
Kudos to both Walker and Jeter, as they truly were two of the best players of their generation.
Why Omar isn’t in the HOF is a mystery to me.
82 OPS+ is a big part of it. Great defender sure, but he was pure compiler. He had two seasons in his long 24 year career where he had above average OPS. In short he was a less than mediocre hitter with fantastic defense. He’s basically Ozzie Smith 2.0 who I personally think is one of the least deserving HOFers elected by the BBWAA.
Quit looking at the stupid Bill James-type numbers and watch some film. Then you’ll see just how great a player he was.
I absolutely hate that these dumb weird stats have come to be the defining standard nowadays.
Omar was incredible defensively but overall he was never a top 3 player at his position with peers like Jeter, Larkin, Garciaparra, Ripken, Rodriguez, etc. Did he ever get an MVP vote? He would be getting in as a compiler.
I’ll finish my defense of Omar with what a Cleveland sportswriter who voted for him, and who I rarely agree with, said:
“He played 24 years, appearing in 2,709 games at shortstop, the most in history. He won 11 Gold Gloves, second most by a shortstop and accumulated 2,877 hits.
Some defensive metrics do not favor Vizquel in comparison to Ozzie Smith, but I watched for 11 years with the Indians. I’ve never seen anyone better and I’ve never understood why people hold the length of a player’s career against them.
Teams don’t hand out big-league jobs like flyers to an open house. You have to earn them and Vizquel did that for almost a quarter of a century.”
—Paul Hoynes
Anyone whose statistics were greatly enhanced by playing in Denver needs to be banned from the HOF. It’s a joke. Not as bad as the Rock n’ Roll HOF, but it’s getting there.
I absolutely HATE this argument. Nobody ever says anything about pitchers in pitcher parks who put up minuscule ERAs, do they?
I just love how everyone assumes Walker didn’t use PEDs.
Maybe he did and maybe he didn’t. I’ve never read, seen, or heard anything about him being linked to steroids.
Time Line:
1969 – According to former NFL player Lyle Alzado this is the year he started taking steroids. Sports Illustrated story.
June 1980 – Bill “The Spaceman” Lee gives an interview to High Times magazine which talks about drug uses, including steroid use, in MLB. Google search the story.
1991 – Steroids are banned substance in MLB.
1991 – Spitballer Gaylord Perry was elected to the Hall of Fame. The spitball was banned 18 years before Perry was born. Perry would write a book called Me and the Spitter which would come out in 1974 nine years before his last MLB game.
2003 – Steroid testing begins in MLB.
The guy who said no really needs to lose the privilege of voting. Must be someone who knows nothing about baseball period.
The thing is the MLB at the time didn’t even care about PED’s and I’m sure they knew players were using them. People don’t live under a rock. If they were really that worried about steroids at the time, they would of banned them like the NFL. Until people started coming out and complaining about steroid use is when the MLB stepped in. The funny thing is steroids weren’t totally banned from the MLB, but don’t want to elect players who used them to the Hall of Fame. I’m not for or against players of this era getting elected to the Hall of Fame because the MLB didn’t do enough to ban PED’s in the first place. I’m sure a good portion of players that are currently in the Hall of Fame “cheated” some way during their careers in some way or another. Bonds and Clemens should definitely be in the Hall of Fame. Steroids don’t help that much talent.
oh, they knew. operation equine was in the 90’s, mlb ignored it (shoot, i was a teen and knew about it, not a chance mlb didn’t know).
The real question is if the HOF voters, the BBWAA, knew of players using PEDs that they’ve voted in within the last 10 years and did so knowingly. If that is the case, they have politicized the process by keeping out Clemens, Bonds and Sosa.
MLB probably didn’t have a rule against it BECAUSE IT WAS ILLEGAL UNDER FEDERAL LAW.
MLB also does NOT have a rule against murder.
Is it your contention that if MLB really cared if it’s players murdered each other on the field, they would have a rule against it?
Not sure what to make of your question, but andro was an illegal substance in Canada back when someone found it in McGwire’s locker. Montreal still existed back then. Some players who used andro are in the Hall of Fame. It makes the idea of Clemens, Bonds and Sosa reaching Cooperstown less far-fetched.
Walker? Really? Where’s Billy Wagner? Curt Schilling? Walker played in a bandbox and reportedly cheated. Wagner was a beast. Schilling had 3,116 K’s (not to mention his post-season record) but gets snubbed by the liberal voters. The HOF has been a farce for over a decade.
There’s never been any evidence Walker cheated. Meanwhile, Walker’s numbers were amazing even for Coors Field (which while being the best offensive park in MLB is actually the opposite of a bandbox), and he also put up excellent numbers while playing for the Expos and Cardinals, so he wasn’t just a product of Coors Field.
Walker should’ve gotten in a long time ago. Check his road OPS if you think he is merely a Coors’ product. Better than Vlad, Dawson, Baines, etc.
The number of people who are so adamant that Bonds and Clemens shouldn’t get in is ridiculous. Yes, they took illegal drugs to enhance their performance. You know who else did? Hank Aaron. He’s admitted to taking amphetamines (an illegal drug) in order to have the energy to keep playing all 162 games for so long. Given that he wasn’t a 50 homer per season guy, he was a ~40 HR guy who accumulated massive stat totals because he played every day so long, that seems as relevant to his overall totals as someone who juiced to get 50+ for a couple seasons, doesn’t it?
Babe Ruth never had to face a pitcher of color, or a 90 mph slider, and park dimensions made it so you could have a 175 ft home run. Aaron took amphetamines to keep up with the long grind. Mantle and Maris played 162 while the Ruth era didn’t. And yes, many hitters in the 90s took steroids. All of these things were at least tacitly approved by the commissioner and the general public at their respective times, and none of them should require an asterisk or some sort of black mark for “tainting history.” Learn, understand and appreciate context rather than just trying to pretend an era of baseball didn’t exist or wasn’t worthy of remembering.
If the commissioner and the general public tacitly approved of it, why did users hide it and lie about it? Because they knew it was wrong.
Did Selig look the other way? Of course. But, so what?
If the security guard at a bank gives you a wink and walks out of the building, you are still not allowed to rob that bank.
What we need to do is to stop rewriting history as a means of defending a decline in ethics.
As long as you aren’t selective about what you’re outraged by, that’s a fine stance to take. But the majority of people who decry Bonds say that Aaron is still the home run king, and he ALSO used illegal drugs to contribute to those totals. Don’t talk about one as a noble hero and the other as a sneaky cheater (not directed at you specifically, just to be clear).
@ forwhomjoshbelltolls –
Well said, Josh. Your analogies are plentiful, but they are accurate and depict what should be the the main point in many of these articles. I enjoy reading your articulate comments and I’m glad to read an individual has a very strong moral compass. It’s obvious you have very strong values and I think that’s in large part what’s missing from many of these debates, let alone society, in general.
In short, nice job and great points.
@phnxdark23 Your facts regarding Hank Aaron are inaccurate. Hank said in his book that he took amphetamines one time before a game. He had a bad game on the drug and said he felt like he was having a heart attack. He said he never took it again. The benefits of steroids are far superior to amphetamines. Steroids transformed Bonds, a 30-40HR guy to a guy that hit 73 HRs.
I agree that players from 1920s to 1970s would not be able to hit today;s pitchers. They played in an era when most pitchers pitched in the 80s. The velocity, spin rates, and movement that an average MLB player has would best the top pitchers of their time. The hitters and pitchers are much better than the players of yesteryear. Babe Ruth would hit less than 200 in todays game but changed the game for his day. You can;t have a 50 ounce bat with the velocity of today’s pitcher but that will work when pitchers are pitching 80mph.
What does Ruth never having to face a non-white pitcher have to do with anything? How is that his fault?
The absurdity that Jeter wasn’t unanimous by 1 vote aside, I couldn’t be happier that Jeet is finally a hall of famer. Personally, Jeter is the reason I’m a Yankee fan, and a baseball fan overall. My favorite player growing up. I’ve never been to Cooperstown but once his plaque is in the hall, I’ll definitely be paying a visit!
8 voters felt Cal Ripken should not be in the Hall.
13 voters felt Tony Gwynn should not be in the Hall.
The fact that only 1 felt Jeter should not be is a gift. He wasn’t even the best SS on his team.
Ripken & Gwynn were voted on before the ‘unanimous’ was finally broken. Once Mo broke that stupid rule, the only question left for a voter is ‘does Jeter belong in the HOF?’.
Apparently, one voter decided he didn’t. No one hates the EE more than I do, but if a writer doesn’t think Jeter belongs in the HOF, he is definitely unqualified to vote.
Then who was the better SS in his team? (Well, at least admitted that it was “his team.”)
Many posit that A-Rod was better at short – that may be true when he first got there (?) but his health declined relatively quickly as it pertains to his hips, which is prohibitive for ss in the majors. Jeter wasn’t the best defensively, but he was clutch, and had his defensive moments (bleacher catch, jump throws, etc ). He certainly was far from a poor defender. Anyone who says he does not belong in the HOF is being intellectually dishonest.
This voter could have considered there were a couple of players he wanted to stay on the ballot and that Jeter will get in no matter what. This voter could have also thought that the unanimous vote is something that only belongs to the best of the best at what they did (Mariano Rivera). Just because they did not vote does not mean they do not think Jeter does not belong in the hall.
@AZ1998 —
I was not speaking specifically about this writer, although I highly doubt he found 10 people more deserving. I already said he may have a reason I am unaware of as I am neither omnipotent or omniscient. So, I partially agree with you. I just don’t think it’s logical to be that voter, just to be that one voter. Good convo though. I appreciate the dialogue.
Walker played for the Cardinals, too, you know.
Never forget…..Harold Baines is in the hall of fame over Murhpy, Parker, Munson, etc. If Fred McGriff doesn’t make the hall one day ima flip.
This one voter that did not vote Jeter could have considered there were a couple of players he wanted to stay on the ballot and that Jeter will get in no matter what. This voter could have also thought that the unanimous vote is something that only belongs to the best of the best at what they did (Mariano Rivera). Just because they did not vote does not mean they do not think Jeter does not belong in the hall. But still, IMO, it’s stupid to be the ONE voter.
Just because your friends jump off a bridge doesn’t mean you should.
@ Mick1956
But that’s it Mick, and precisely my point, Alex was by far a better SS when he played with the Rangers and the M’s. However, he was never the SS for the Yankees. Hence, Jeter was the better SS in his team bc he was the primary SS, and Alex the 3B. That’s what I am getting at.
Completely agree with you, Juan. Didn’t mean to intimate that I did not. I fully understand your point on that. To use a bad analogy, it’s like saying Trout is the best at third, if he played there. Doesn’t make him the best 3b though.
Hey All,
For some reason my comments aren’t showing with the reply icon. Is that something on my end?
This one did, Mick. I think it just means you are a stud and your word is untouchable and irrefutable…
Mine are doing the same thing. I think it is a measure to keep people from replying to their own comments. Although it is missing the reply option from anyone replying to my thread also.
Your comments have a reply option on my screen.
Lololol. Don’t I wish, Juan
The HOF has turned into a joke. Any player who played half his games in Denver should have an asterisk by his name (Walker’s OPS was over 200 points higher at home). He was good on the road, but nowhere near what the HOF SHOULD require. Ozzie Smith gets in on defense, but Andruw Jones can’t? Tommy John, who had a very good career, should be in if for no other reason than his pioneering surgery. Harold Baines is in, and no one knows why. Curt Schilling can’t get in because he’s an outspoken conservative. Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron, Ty Cobb, Willie Mays, etc. weren’t unanimous, but Mariano Rivera was? It’s a stupid, biased, political process………..we need a REAL HOF based on REAL things, not some antiquated institution that elects some because they’re good butt kissers.
Now that Derek Cheater is in, can we all stop with Harold Baines comments?
Clemens, bonds, arod, and rose deserve to be in. Put rose in now before he passes away and everyone bemoans “we should have done it long ago”. Its the hall of fame, not the hall of nice guys. It’s where the best players are honored. It’s where they belong.
Agreed. It’s turned into a popularity contest…….it’s the “Most Popular Good Baseball Players” club.
Well put Kevin.
Although I don’t agree with Bonds, Clemens, A-Rod, Sosa, Mac, etc, they need to correct the Pete Rose situation. It is wholly unfair imo to hold what he did as a manager against his performance as a player, with betting. Betting can’t make him any better, like PEDs.
He’s one of the best players of that generation and deserves to be a HOFer, imo.
Good writing guys, I enjoyed the read of different opinions.