1:33pm: The White Sox have announced the contract. Robert will earn $1.5MM in 2020, $3.5MM in 2021, $6MM in 2022, $9.5MM in 2023, $12.5MM in 2024 and $15MM in 2025.
12:07pm: The White Sox have reached a long-term agreement with center field prospect Luis Robert, Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports. The deal includes $50MM in guaranteed money over six years, and it features two club options, per Jeff Passan of ESPN. The max value is $88MM over eight years, including $20MM club options for 2026-27 with $2MM buyouts in each of the two seasons, Passan adds. It’s a record-setting accord for a player who hasn’t yet debuted in the majors.
This will already be the second lucrative contract for the 22-year-old Robert, whom the White Sox signed out of Cuba for a $26MM bonus a couple months into the 2017 season. Robert has justified his payday since then, as he’s now regarded as one of the majors’ premier prospects. He ran roughshod over the high minors last season, batting .297/.341/.634 with 16 home runs in 223 plate appearances during his first (and maybe only) taste of Triple-A action.
As MLBTR’s Mark Polishuk recently noted when exploring a potential extension for Robert, he’s the latest White Sox outfielder to land a new deal before ever playing in the majors. The club signed outfielder Eloy Jimenez to a six-year, $43MM pact – then a record for an early career extension – shortly before last season started. Jimenez has more than lived up to the decision so far, having finished 2019 among the majors’ most successful rookies.
The Robert pact gives the White Sox an extra year of control over him, as they’re now slated to keep him through 2027 instead of ’26. Plus, if all goes well, it could tamp down massive arbitration earnings for Robert. Regardless, the White Sox now have at least two-thirds of an extremely enviable young outfield between him and Jimenez. And if recent trade acquisition Nomar Mazara, 24, begins living up to his vast potential, Chicago could possess one of the sport’s premier outfields for the foreseeable future.
Now that there’s no need to manipulate his service time, it seems likely Robert will open 2020 as the White Sox’s everyday center fielder. So, for the most part, the team’s Opening-Day lineup for the upcoming season appears set. The White Sox also have Jimenez (left), Mazara (right), Yoan Moncada (third base) and Tim Anderson (shortstop) as key members of their young offensive core. Sluggers Jose Abreu and Edwin Encarnacion (DH/1B) and catcher Yasmani Grandal will supplement that group, with a potential-packed rotation set to consist of some combination of Lucas Giolito, Dallas Keuchel, Reynaldo Lopez, Dylan Cease, Gio Gonzalez, Michael Kopech and Carlos Rodon.
Last decade was one to forget for the White Sox, who haven’t made the playoffs since 2008 or finished above .500 since 2012. But judging by general manager Rick Hahn’s actions this winter, including Robert’s contract, they’re all-in on changing their fortunes as early as this year.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Love this trend
Overpaid
Its crazy that you know that already.
Assuming his arb prices are absolutely horrendous. To which, yeah I guess over a 6 year agreement that’s probably a little high. Get lost, kook.
Luis Robert is one of the most talented players on the planet already.
Under paid. They can say all they want about Joe Adell. But Luis Robert is the true next Mike Trout. He should’ve got a 10 year 100 million Dollar contract. He’s going to outrun Trout and Bregman for the MVP. As much as I like Ronald Acuna Jr to be on the sox. Luis Robert is the better option.
Top 5 players In baseball 2020. 5. Luis Robert 4. Cody Bellinger 3. Christian Yelich 2. Mookie Betts 1. Mike Trout
we get 10 of those every year 5 are ok 1 might be really good and the rest flop
samesang
Chicago White Sox lowkey becoming one of my favorite teams, they might just be in the lead for my upcoming MLB The Show 2020 franchise lmao
I was thinking the same thing lol
If you like baseball transactions enough to be on this site, I recommend OOTP. It’s way deeper than MLB the show
As a life long White Sox fan, I can see this team might be one of the most talented we shall see for the next five to seven years. Hahn did it right for us White Sox fans!
typo
why mookie will earn 61 million though his 6 years by going year by year. how is this not a huge risk with 0 pay off? what they save a million dollars. what if he is toast by april
Lovin it!
Sweet!!!
Good for Chicago. I remember when the Reds were rumored to sign him a couple of years ago. I can’t wait to see him in the majors.
Not a fan of these type deals.
I’ll let mgmt know.
He said from his couch.
As you type from yours.
As I type from mine
Look at the cubs now…. all of their young talent is on the trading block because they won’t be able to extend them…. look at the talent the Sox were able to acquire in part because of the team friendly contracts of Sale, Quintana, and Eaton…. these moves are both team and player friendly
As a fan of neither team, but someone who loathes Cubs fans, I love the current trend happening up there in Chicago.
I think some people like sports because they can openly stereotype and hold prejudices against a group without being called out for it.
I know its winter, but don’t be a snowflake.
Ronnsnow is a hater
ok fake tough guy. just the and not be a jerk like your orange Messiah. yeah before him people treated each other with respect.
What’s interesting here is that Robert signed early despite already getting a huge bonus earlier. The bonus has shown to be a safety net for top talent not signing extensions like these.
That only really applies to international free agents though. Drafted players can’t be given bonuses like that.
Top draft picks get about $7 million still … And that’s usually enough to keep them from signing early.
Yes they should easily win the division over the Cubs now
Hmmmm. What?
All of the Cubs young players are on the trading block you say? Hahaha
Anybody but Baez and maybe Schwarber can be had. Bryant will probably be dealt once the issue with his length of service is settled. Schwarber should be traded to the AL where he can DH, and the Yankees having been sniffing around him for a couple of off-seasons
I get what you’re putting down, but as a Brewer fan I’d rather see the Cubs owing Addison Russell and Kyle Schwarber 15MM/year each until 2025.
how did they save? they don’t
If he turns into a star then it saves them 100+ million. The cubs and sox wish they had done this with betts/bryant (No sure thing that either Would have accepted though)
Obviously it doesnt always work out but I’d go for it if I were in charge and believed in the talent. Hitting on a few deals like this is how you establish a cheap core for a long time
No it doesnt save them 100M+. This bought them 2 FA years (and really probably only one year + an extra month of added team control) in exchange for guaranteeing him his arb years up front.
Theres zero to suggesting a Bryant/Betts would accept something like this. Betts has been pretty adamant about testing FA for years, and the Cubs literally screwed Bryant out of service time
Bryant/Betts would absolutely accept this deal before reaching the majors… it’s real money
You just don’t know that. Why doesn’t the Yankees, who can easily swallow like 2 years of ‘real money’ in exchange for years of real upside, just offer it to everyone? Torres was an elite prospect on arrival.
Most likely not Bryant—Boras clients don’t do that.
Bryant had $6.7 million in his bank account before ever playing in the bigs. That’s why guys who have gone top 3 in the draft have signed the 10 largest FA contracts in MLB history. They have the financial luxury of holding out until a potential generational payday. It’s why this Robett deal seems strange. He’s one of the few guys who previously got a huge bonus and still signed am early extension.
The incentive to sign is that the money is guaranteed. What if the player gets injured and it affects their later performance? The big money is a sure thing. With the right money manager, they can be set for life.
$8 million plus another $1.5 million from their 3 pre-arb years can also set someone for life. And in Bryant’s case, winning ROTY and MVP in his first two seasons guaranteed him about $50 million from arb as well.
Betts was a 5th round pick. If the sox would have offered him 50M 6 years ago i think he would have taken it.
It’s as foolish to say that betts/Bryant’s would definitely accept such a deal as it is to say there is no way that they accept such a deal
It’s a lot easier to turn down extensions once you are already excelling in the bigs than it is when you’re in the minors and have no idea if you are going to flop and never get a payday
And it could be 100+ million if he becomes a superstar. Players 6 years from now may very well command 40-50 million and his arb would be a lot higher than what he is guaranteed. I cede that realistically they are looking at a 75 million or so benefit if he plays well
With the dollars involved here, I’d say that without the wrong money manager, they are set for life.
bettis will make 61 million for 6 years. so they took a huge risk to save what 20 to 30 million. lol what a dumb move
not one guy in the major leagues doesn’t make real money. bare minimum is 500 Grand that takes the average American 10 years to earn
8 million doesn’t last you your entire life you should have it all taken away
How was he “screwed” out of service time? The Cubs handled him precisely within the bounds of the mutually agreed upon CBA rule concerning service time, just as other teams have done many times before Bryant. If the players aren’t happy with how service time is set up they should renegotiate a better way.
It’s not that the Cubs did not follow the CBA rules with keeping Bryant down but the reason why they heals him down with allegedly working in his defense! Come on now, I can see if the Cubs brought him up later and brought him up in a month but it was the day after they can control him for another year.
Lol. You’re terrible at math. At best, if he turns into an absolute superstar. This will save them 15-20 million.
Lol hilarious that you say I’m terrible at math and then say that. 15-20 million? are you serious. My estimate is way closer than yours. Take a look at a top level player who goes all the way to the end of arbitration and compare it to Robert’s contract. Plus the 20 million dollar options, those buyout free agent years. How much are superstar players in their prime paid on the open market?
An “absolute superstar” as you put it would make 35-40 mil per year (7 years from now I’d say that’s the bottom end of a yearly superstar salary). That is 40 million dollars right there just for those two years if he becomes an “absolute superstar”. But yeah I’m terrible at math
Johnrealtime you are poor with math and factual understanding
The Sox would control Robert 6 years atva minimum or 7 years be calling him up in mid April.
So it would have been 7 years to free agency superstar or not. The Sox effectively can buy out one year of free agency for $20 million so if the market is $40 million then they save $20 million not $100 million!
And if he gets hurt they may lose money. That is the trade off. But upside is nowhere near $100 million. Not even close.
Kenly you are correct
like they all turn to stars. do max vale they wpuld get about 33. that’s if he is a star form now on. one of the quality of trout or bettis. thats just a dumb bet. 9
half of top prospects fail. even ones that dont they most are not stars. so ya its a huge risk to assume he will max out arbitration every year.
bettis will make 61 million. so they might have got one year for free if he is a super star. pretty dumb judges Superstar on a year the ball was extremely Juiced
This comment on Betts and 61 million is not a true comparison. Please stop using it.
Robert will have to turn into a true superstar and one of the top 3-5 players in baseball for this to truly be a steal of a contract. Using Kris Bryant as an example, he won ROY, an MVP, averaged 5 WAR/season and been generally very healthy and he is looking at about $44 million for his first 6 years. If he has another very good season, he will earn somewhere in the $68-70 million or so range for his first 7 years. Another example is Mookie Betts. Many consider him to be the 2nd best player in MLB. He has won an MVP, been a runner up and finished top 8 each of the past 4 seasons. He has 4 GG and averaged about 150 games/season. He will have earned about $60 million for his first 6.5 seasons. These players represent best case outcomes for Robert. If Robert turns out more like Byron Buxton, who was also an elite CF prospect and been a solid player, this contract will look like a huge overpay.
I’m happy the player was able to guarentee a large payday, but the White Sox have little opportunity to get surplus value and a lot of opportunity to have a contract with negative value on their hands.
EXACTLY!!!
you’re absolutely right it makes zero sense for the team. it’s a huge risk without very much to pay off. plus last year the ball was juice so don’t really have a good idea of when anybody did
For player? Team?
Wow, that is nothing. Let’s hope he stays healthy.
Lets hope he stays healthy? Literally something you can say about EVERY player on the planet.
Robert has had a few injuries in his career already, hence the comment.
Except Puig.
who will be the first team for this to blow up in there face? If its big market (Yankees, Dodgers, or Boston) no big deal but the small market could hurt for 6-10 years(Padres, Braves White Sox). Just look at Padres bad contract over history and they have never recovered from them, in fact, they keep doing bad long term contracts
Chicago isnt a small market
The White Sox should be a major player every season. Why do people consider them “mid-market”?
The Sox could be considered a mid market team because they only capture about 35% of the baseball market in Chicago. The Cubs have the other 65 percent. They just don’t gross as much revenue as the Cubs or other large market teams.
It would be another thing of the Sox drew 3 million fans per season, but that doesn’t and never has happened. They’re lucky to draw 2 million fans per year at Guaranteed Rate Field.
Their cheap ownership is the reason their market share is not what it should be. This is going on an eight year tank job.
Any team in a large market is a large market team, regardless of how they spend their money.
When they win, they draw. When they’re winning the will have a top 10 payroll in baseball. Like they did from 2005-2014.
I tend to agree with this comment ChiSoxCity, especially since growing up in the 70s, 80s and 90s, the Cubs were not unequivocally the leader of Chicago. From 50s through 92, the Sox actually outdrew the Cubs and it was very much a 50/50 town. I’m not saying that will magically change, but those fair-weather fans who love ‘the lovable loser Cubbies’ will jump onboard as soon as the Sox turn it around. Even as recently as 2006 (the years of the Sox won the WS), attendance was nearly equal.
Put an exciting winner on the field and people will jump on board, and suddenly you have the huge city of Chicago behind you.
I defected from the Cubs because of their affinity to Sinclair broadcasting and the Trump party. There are many more like me ready for a new experience. Go Sox!
For the record I’ve been going to Sox games for years. Just never considered them my team. Until now.
MLB fan bases are like ocean liners: huge, cumbersome affairs. But they can and do change direction over time.
Considering the cub FO moves of late coupled with their new ‘pay-to-view’ TV situation, longtime fans will be deeply alienated. At the same time, the Sox are quickly becoming THE team to watch.
Prediction:
Ten years from now we’ll look back in astonishment that Chgo was once a cub town.
If one goes back to 1957-67, the Sox were Chicago’s team. Won a pennant and generally contended throughout the period while the Cubs were in perpetual rebuild. The upper deck at Wrigley often remained closed during weekday games because no one was buying tickets there. I’m not saying the script is going to flip quite that dramatically now, but the idea that the Cubs have always dominated the city is simply not true.
When the White Sox put a winning team on the field. They usually draw more than 2 million fans. Happened most recently from 2005- 2011, a 7 year run. Additionally they drew just under 3 million (2,957,411) in 2006), ranking 3rd in attendance in the AL and 9th overall in MLB. So they are not lucky to draw 2 million the fans just want to see a competitive product on the field.
Asking whether the Cubs dominate the city or not really doesn’t answer the entire question. The Cubs own the regional,domestic and global market in comparison to the White Sox….and it’s not even close.
The White Sox are routinely also one of the poorest drawing teams on the ROAD as well. There’s been marketing issues and branding issues since moving into the new park over 30 years ago. While the logo and color scheme is popular with some on a cult level, it’s also been connected to thug life. The Sox routinely turn up as one of MLBs most disliked teams. I’d call it the Raider effect. In the NFL there are many who have a very serious opinion on the Raiders.
I say this as a Sox fan. With the Cubs. You’re talking about one of the top sports brands in the world. Certainly one of say the top 5 in baseball. The Sox sit back in the midrange someplace.
I was born literally blocks from Wrigley Field, and raised on the northside. Believe me when I say this: I’d rather be hated for not being popular, than loved for being a loser.
Elitist in the industry hate the White Sox, and I wouldn’t have it any other way.
Yup! That’s why Dogboner is always trolling cuz he’s mad that the cub dynasty never happened.
To Red-Line: Reason Sox are routinely disliked around the league, also comes with all the years they’ve had a over the top, biased, clown – Harrellson – as their play by play, announcer. And Steve Stone and Ed Farmer – aren’t far behind.
Geeez Dogbone……you must be having a rough day. Did somebody not give you enough love when you were growing up? Besides, do you seriously think anyone who isn’t a White Sox fan, cares about who their announcers are? You offer this as if you are an expert but provide zero empirical data to back it up. Sounds like a certain someone who is always ranting about the fake news media.
Untrue. They’ve drawn more than the Cubs before. Albeit many years ago. It actually isn’t impossible to think they could do so again if everything comes to fruition! That isnt likely, but absolutely not out of the realm of possibility.
That’s Hall Of Fame Hawk Harrellson to you
I’m a Cubs fan and would never abandon the a Cubs for the White Sox. The Jimenez and Robert deals could very well blow up in the White Sox face
A Cubs fan would definitely know about deals blowing up in a team’s face.
Says the fan of the team that consistently fails to draw, even when they win. Yeah, they’ll get 30k when they’re a really good team, but even during their WS winning season, there were empty seats.
And making the playoffs more than once with the same team.
Elistist hate the Sox? Don’t kid yourself. They’re not that important. Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, etc. Those are the hated teams.
I mean, whatever you need to make you feel more attached to your team, but the Sox don’t matter for most folks.. Certainly not enough to hate, unless you’re a rival.
I never understood why anyone cares if others like or dislike their team. Worry about your own team. Others don’t think about them as much as you think they do.
Growing up, going to Comiskey was always a treat. The Sox would also give incentives for attendance to get free tickets, and it was overall just a more fun experience. I say that as a fan of both teams, although if they played each other in the WS, I’d lean Cubs.
The Torberg teams were my favorite, as they made a needed uniform change, and he had lots of very good players and played an aggressive style.
I don’t agree with the comparison of the Sox with the Raiders. Oakland has embraced that rep, much of it tied to their success as much as the reputation of their teams in the 70s mostly. The Sox haven’t been popular because, lets face it, they haven’t been all that good. Good enough to be competitive many years, but not good enough to matter. Not to mention, they probably play in the least attractive division for the TV viewer and casual fan. Not too many people are running to their TV to see that division.
That being said, be excited Sox fans, but don’t expect all these kids to be stars. Hopefully a few break out, several become good players, and you’ll have a few that just don’t turn out to be anything more than a guy.
It’s nice to see too that Hahn was allowed to develop kids. Kenny, although somehow still involved, would have proabably traded most of them away for guys just past their prime.
Your Cub envy shows
If the Cubs still had Eloy Jimenez do you think they would have extended him before his first MLB appearance like the White Sox did? It’s more likely the ‘rich-ett’ Cubs would have played the MLB service time game with him just like they did with Kris Bryant.
Theo and Tom would rather pay FA arms like Brett Anderson, Brandon Morrow, Tyler Chatwood and Yu Darvish to cover for the Cubs lack of pitching development than lock up their great young positional talent who mostly are now either on the trade block or ready to bolt for free agency in the next couple of years. Even if they extend Javier Baez the cost now will be extreme compared to what they could have done earlier in his Cubs career.
Tom isnt the owner his father Joe Owns the Cubs. Tom just calls him to ask if he can spend his daddy’s money. Joe is cheap and will say no alot more until he sells the team for a 400% profit. Probably more.
Up till 84 is when the cubs took over at the lee elia tirade game there were less than 5000 if you look at the attendance of some summer games before 84 under ten thousand
I don’t think an $8m cap hit for a bust is that big of a hit for a small market. At least not for any of the markets you mentioned. No worse than taking $25m for Zimmermann or $31m for Price at the moment.
This first team was the Astros and Jon Singleton I believe.
Good call… that was a “disaster” in terms of how he developed, but it was only like 10mn if I remember correctly. Hardly a massive knock for the club. Phillies signed Kingery to a pretty big deal that looked to be blowing up in their faces after his first season, but he definitely righted the ship with a bounce back last season. Hit and miss, but can be a bargain if you truly believe in a player.
The 7-10 yr deals worth over $150mil+ tend to blow up in your face…. the terms of this deal are unlikely to be more than 6yrs $70mil
amd if he sucks there goes 60 million to save a few. its crazy
Like everyone said. Not a small market and not a big deal. In fact, these are about the only thing the team has done well in the past. Sale, Q, Eaton, Anderson.
Eloy too.
Still early to say it’s a good deal… but they did get it done.
It was a good deal, not too early to say. Anyone can get hurt, but Eloy showed, especially in the 2nd half, that he is a special talent and will definitely outperform the contract (IMO).
Except Eloy can’t play defense.
And you are a bad troll. Everyone has their weaknesses.
He’s working on D. He wants to be a superstar and will do whatever it takes.
The idea of the small market needs to go away.
why so you guys can just have every single player that sounds like a whole lot of fun to be a fan of a team that wins only because they have tons and tons more money than everybody else
This contract can’t “blow up” because there’s little to no risk.
that’s just crazy talk. the ball was Juiced he could go up there next year and hit 15 home runs. pretty much if he doesn’t play like Mookie Betts it’s a waste of money. betts got 61 million for 6 years. seriously the only kind of people who’ve been paid like that are top 5 players and it doesn’t happen very often. not only does he have to be a superstar he has to be a superstar from the first year to make this pay. just to look at Prospect history would tell you the odds are better that he’s not a superstar then he is
They’ll end trading everyone the signed to fa deals and extensions within 2-4 years. They will Constantly rebuild.
Boston.
Rusney Castillo.
Same thing. Spot the kook who argues it’s not.
Why don’t we toss in the worthless Ender Inciarte and Odubel Herrera while we’re at it?
Remember when Bob Nutting actually committed felony extortion against Gregory Polanco to force him to sign that deal or keep lighting up triple-A?
Question: have you EVER, just once, made a comment, out of the hundreds of worthless comments you have made, ever had a comment that even remotely made any sense, whatsoever????
Did your mom have to do “extra work” to get you into Greenbow County public schools?
They are in NO WAY close. Robert is a pure 5-tool athlete who had a 1.000+ ops in the minors last year… at 21. Castillo never had an OPS over .750 in the US until he was 28 years old. They both hit well in the Cuban league, but Robert had an OPS of 1.213 at 18 on the same team that Castillo had .770 at 24. They both had hype, but Castillo not working out should not have been that big of a shock, whereas Robert would be.
actually considering top prospects rarely turn into Stars it would be a surprise if he did
A $50M over 6 year contract isn’t paying him like a star… So not sure the point.
You’re going to compare Castillo to Robert? Outside of being Cubans that play baseball what is the similarity? Castillo is listed as 5’8 and 195 lbs, he also signed at the age of what 25 or 26? Luis Robert just turned 22 a few months ago and is listed at 6’3 and 225 lbs. He is one of the fastest players in pro baseball, he hits for power, has a strong arm and is good defensively in CF. Across 3 minor league levels in 2019 he hit .328/.376/..624, 32 HR’s with 36 SB’s in 47 attempts over 551 PA’s at the age of 21, at least until Aug 3 when he turned 22. Who is the kook? Moncada is a better comp than Castillo.
Rusney Castillo minor league player of the year….. NOT
The other side is losing a good player to free agency like Lindor or Betts. This is the cheaper option with some risk. Yanks did it with Severino and Hicks and neither one played last year. To me it is a better option than over paying for most free agents. Nobody has a crystal ball,
These won’t blow up in anybody’s face. These aren’t $300,000,000 gambles. The dollars, while not insignificant, just aren’t large enough to derail a franchise. It’s a smart play for the team with little downside.
ok first year 14 hr 250 avg
year 2 same
year 3 20 hr 265 avg
year 4 5 and 6 the same. opps they lost this deal. no way that gets you more than mooki or lindor
It isn’t fair to point to one bad deal and say the practice has “blown up in your face.” The White Sox have already gotten significant value from these types of deals by being able to trade Sale, Quintana, and Eaton. They currently have Jimenez, Anderson, and now Robert on these deals. The question is, what would it have coat them and where would they be if they hadn’t done them as a whole. If one or two come out bad because the player gets injured or doesn’t develop but 4 or 5 generate excess value that puts them ahead of going year to year with all 6 players then they have come out ahead. Since we already know they did well with the three traded players, and Anderson’s is looking good even if he regresses some, it is unlikely the idea will prove to be a bad one, even if not every situation works perfectly.
what this means is that they want him to start in CF on opening day rather than try and burn a year of his service time.
Not sure why more teams dont do this with some of their blue chip prospects . Ive been wondering this for years
More teams are doing it… but the players have to agree to it too.
It costs the players money if they play up to expectations. Imagine if Mookie Betts signed one of them for example. It would have cost him millions. He’ll make 60% as much this year alone as Robert makes over his first 6 years and will be a free agent 2 years sooner.
Of course every player isn’t Mookie Betts and a lot do flame out. But most I’m sure are pretty confident in their abilities and unwilling to lock themselves in.
Money now matters… the teams have plenty of leverage yet players still take these deals
Players take these deals because $50M, for someone coming from Cuba (or anyone for that matter), is ridiculous money… and no matter how skilled and confident they are, it is guaranteed. Kind of like the old probability problem Would you rather have $50M * 100% likelihood or $200M *.25%… technically it is the same amount of expected money at $50M, but there is something about that guarantee for some/most people. Good for him, and good for opening day Sox!
If you win the lottery you take the money… the government would prefer you defer it… inflation matters…. 6yrs from now Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers will be spending $400mil on a free agent
Time to raise the floor and make teams spend money, they all make over 210 million a year according to Forbes. If a team doesn’t spend at least 100 million a year they aren’t trying to win. Fans want owner that try to win, not ones that talk about prospects and having the most value in their players.
and if you die no one geta the cash
for instance thw reds spent 250 millon on total operations. they spent 135 on payroll. so they spent 150 of expenses. they made 14 million in profits. so how? Lol
It’s great for both teams, but if the player crushes it he can lose money. It’s a risk/reward thing. You can bet on your future or you can take comfort and hope you reach free agency with enough talent to get another payday.
A great example is Madison Bumgarner.
Cleveland tried it early in Lindor’s career. Rumor was that they were somewhere around 7 years, $100M and he wanted around $110M to sign.
That extra $10M cost the Indians big time and turned out to be very smart for Lindor holding his ground.
Need two to tango.
There was no give and take.
Lindor turned them down flat and didn’t even negotiate.
He got a 2.9 million dollar signing bonus when drafted and signed a 9 million dollar shoe deal with New Balance after his rookie season.
There never was a financial reason for him to give up any free agent years for security.
Cleveland lost leverage by letting him reach MLB… Lindor gets a shoe deal AFTER his rookie season
Maybe Lindor and Betts know what they want to do and have their reasons for going to free agency. It could be the climate for all we know.
Because Carlos Correa, Kris Bryant and Mookie Betts said no.
When were these deals offered? Prior to MLB debuts?
Beautiful
Now lock up Madrigal
Yes. I was screaming for an Eloy Jimenez type contract extension for Luis Robert and all the geniuses on this site were laughing at me with the notion he would never agree to such a deal because he already had his $26MM international signing bonus in his bank account.
I think some of these fans also laughed at me when I suggested that Rick Hahn and Theo Epstein trade Hanukkah gifts at the 2016 Winter Meetings centering on White Sox starting pitcher Jose Quintana in the wake of the just completed deals for Chris Sale and Adam Eaton. Fans on both sides of town laughed at me insisting the city rivals would never consider a significant trade with each other. Turns out I was off base by about 6 months before the “Q” deal actually happened at the July 31st trade deadline.
Nick Madrigal should be next up for a contract extension so the White Sox can also have their core 2B in the 2020 opening day lineup along with Robert. Madrigal is probably the safest bet to make good on any extension, even more so than Jimenez or Robert because of his extremely high ‘floor’ as a prospect.
An extension for Yoan Moncada should also be explored this offseason as the 3B heads into his final pre-arbitration season. He will have 3 additional arb-eligible years starting in 2021 before becoming a potential FA in 2024.
You know what they say, Aaron? Even a blind squirrel finds a nut!
But an Aaron Sapoznik finds a nut and brags about how smart he was for finding it!
The White Sox are saving me from an otherwise pretty dismal offseason forecast. I believe I have about 10 correct picks in the MLBTR Free Agent prediction contest and 5 are White Sox. Thus far I hit on 5 of my 6 Sox FA picks with the only miss being Zack Wheeler who took less dollars from Philadelphia so his fiancee can remain closer to home.
Aaron, I just can’t believe how smart you are. And even more surprised that Reinsdork doesn’t call you – directly – for advice on how to run his franchise.
You couldn’t do worse than Kenny Williams. Good thing though, Reinsdorf did hire a Cub fan – Hahn, to run your franchise.
Keep up the good work Aaron. Yours are always concise, relevant posts.
The NUTS who criticized you probably meant to say:
“Even a blind squirrel gets his NUTS off once in a while.”
If this team gets pitching they will be tough.
C-Yasmani
1/DH-Abreau/EE
2-Madrigal
SS-Anderson
3-Moncada
LF-Eloy
CF-Robert
RF-Mazarra/Engel/garcia (the obvious weakness unless Mazara blossoms)
Rotation has questions, but some exciting possible answers. Obviously the healthy return of Kopech and Rodon are key, not to mention the development of Cease and Lopez. With Giolito looking good with two added vets in Dallas and Gio the White Sox damn well better be playing meaningful September baseball.
Nothing is questionable about the talent and depth on their pitching staff.
Nothing is questionable about thir pitching staff? I would like to argue
Opening day CF. Let’s go!
You can put in the board….yes! The White Sox now have their opening day CF.
Don’t stop now boys! Do an extension for 2B Nick Madrigal as well.
They have no money. They are over budget over paying Grandal,Abreu and Keuchel. Now they give 50 mil to a guy who has never played in a ML game.
I bet he’s a bust.
He’ll be traded with in 3 years of that deal. It’s not like they are going to contend any time soon. The White Sox won’t win more than 75 games.
You can’t rely on Keuchel and Giolito all year. And you can’t rely on moncada and abreu all year. They still need to improve at 3rd SS LF,RF.
I think you’re talking about the wrong club. The Cubs are the ones with no money. Thanks for the laugh though.
The Sox made 272 million last year, and their budget right now is 113 million. There should be a floor in the MLB at 150 for every team., show fans you are trying to win. Every team in the MLB makes over the 210 million cap.
Yeah they also only sold out twice at comiskey that was because the cubs were there. It was like 90/10 cubs fans for ever 20 cubs fans there was 1 white Sox fan..
The cubs made 900mil and sold out 75 games at wrigley. But they cant spend money.
There’s more cost to running a team than just the salaries of the players.
This comment should be flagged for stupidity… need help at 3B, SS, and LF??? Clearly you hate your life and want everyone else to try to be brought down to this garbage or you’ve never watched a game last year
You should have added that Chicago is a small or mid market. That would have made your baseless rant complete.
Do you watch baseball?
Don’t listen to Wrek. He’s a huge Cubs homer and therefore a jealous troll of any Cubs rival. Most Cubs fans disown him.
Lol I’m a troll? Why shouldn’t I be a homer for the Cubs? I would never leave my team for 5th best sports team in Chicago.
The white Sox could offer me 51% ownership and I would say no.
You have no clue what you’re talking about. I’m not the troll you’re the troll all you do is hate
Have fun with your 3rd or worse consih the next 3 years
Did you see what they offered Machado last year!
50 for Robert! 50 for Jimenez! 50 for Kopech. 50 for Cease! 50 for Madrigal! Oh what’s that? Luis Alexander Basabe you want an extension too? Okay, Jeez we’ll give you one, buddy!
Should have stopped with Madrigal, you lost any credibility on your funny joke by mentioning Basabe.
That Basabe joke flew past you quicker than Yoan Moncada striking out looking.
I got the joke. It wasn’t funny and Basabe was a 2 years ago joke.
worst announcer in mlb history. dont know how anyone would listen to that nonsense.
I guess this is an end to the Robert for Arenado rumors… as a Sox fan, thank god
People who started those rumors are probably former Cubs fans jumping off the bandwagon and heading to the Southside.
It’s about to go down.
Down to 3rd place . They’re already sellers. Grandal will immediately regret going to a bad team. Keuchel if he stays there all 3 years will win 22 games in 3 years.
10-15
7-17
5-11(shoulder injury )
Wrek, since you can predict the future can you give the winning lottery numbers for the next few weeks?
I’m surprised by this.
With a $26M signing bonus already in the bank… I figured he would bet on himself and play it year by year. Sox did a nice job on this.
I guess though he knows he’s going to get “service timed”…. so the two option years really only cause him to hit free agency one year later.
He did just get a lot of money, but this also basically guarantees he won’t play in AAA again. Has he not signed this he probably would’ve started there.
He definitely would have. They would have wanted that extra year of control. So good move
He’s getting $50 million guaranteed with 2 option years and 19 million per. The only thing that potentially could be costing him money is the 1 Year at 19 million. Otherwise he made a smart decision and the Sox made a questionable decision. Both this signing and the Eloy signing don’t make sense. No player has made 50 million in arbitration(Mookie and KB will be the first to do it). So the Sox are banking on both of these guys to do that and be as good or better than 2 MVP’s. Otherwise, they just overpaid for their Arb years. Well done Hahn
exactly.
I don’t understand this. .pat teams open 3 or 4 year Windows. so all they did was hamper their payroll. you should try ans complete when you have young cheap players so you can add free agents.
They cant say the cubs are broke anymore. White Sox have spent over a 140mil this winter. They are over the tax threshold now.
I see you don’t understand the cap at all. That explains a lot.
There is no cap
Wrek, you should know your facts before you write something stupid on here. The White Sox are nowhere close to the luxury tax threshold for 2020. The Sox payroll is going to be around $140 million while the luxury tax threshold is at $208 million. Educate yourself before you write stuff on here.
Its not stupid its facts.
There is nothing factual to any of your posts. The White Sox are still 60 to 70 million below the Cubs in 2020 salary projections. A quick Google search will validate that.
48 million according to Spotrac
And the cubs had 55 million off the books and spend 3mil. They had 20mol off the books just from Hamels.
The Cubs are estimated to have their 2020 payroll over $208 million at the start of the season. You need to start reading the facts before you post your moronic comments on here.
no, the 140 million is spread over 3 or more years, the payroll for next season will be about 150 million, nowhere near the threshold.
You should not expect too much from Cubs’ fans!
Salty bandwagon Indians fan after they clutched the pennant. Good troll job
If all you can do is insult then your argument is worthless. Like when the Cubs finish 2020 in 4th place and Bryant leaves for nothing.
Cubs are the favorites to win the central and have 11/1 odds of winning the world series
The white sox are 100/1 odds
Bryant will get at least 3 players. Back. Wilson, Anderson and waters.
It would be good if it was waters Anderson, Wilson and Fried.
The later is the best deal for both teams.
Dumb###.
Are you still drunk from NYE? Or is it that your parents don’t know you are on the internet and you should be taking a nap right now? It has to be one or the other based on your posts in this thread.
Ooohhhh, burn.
You better write that one down.
I only post facts. Nothing I post is wrong. You hate not being wrong so you troll me.
Wrek, 99.9% of your posts are not facts but just opinions. If you want to establish a legit argument you must stay away from your opinions and rely highly on facts. Most of the Cubs fans I speak to in person know the White Sox are going to be good and the Cubs are doing nothing to improve since they are stuck with bad contracts to no space and a terrible farm system. None of Theo Epstein’s draft picks in the pitching department have not panned out for the Cubs. Theo is going to have to trade their core to rebuild the system. With having Ross as the manager with no experience as a coach at any level is a sign as being a yes man to the Cubs’ organization.
Smart! Win if they keep him. Win if they trade him (Eaton, Sale, Quintana extensions).
I’m a fan of these deals. Players get financial security, teams get cost certainty.
They are a bit of a gamble on both sides, but are generally a mutually beneficial arrangement.
“Premier Outfields for the foreseeable future” I like the sound of that!
PHA
should be a massive upgrade over adam engel/leury garcia in center.
a little risky committing that much to a player thats shown some injury history and pitch recognition issues. but if he goes anywhere near his ceiling, he’s going to outplay that contract in a hurry.
Since when does a highly regarded prospect without a single Major League plate appearance justify a $75 million investment?
Since Luis Robert…. now let’s watch and see why that is….. Guy is going to be sick
Since teams smartly stopped paying old players and started investing in youth.
2nd good move of the offseason for the Sox.
What do I have to do to be a 22 year old kid with $75MM guaranteed to me, all without having ever played a Major League game?
Have elite talent
be arguably the most well rounded and talented prospect in baseball after a successful career in the Cuban National League?
I’m not 100% sure either due to lack of MLB experience, but if I had a strong hunch it would be to spend less time posting dumb questions online and more time in the cages/on the grass. But then again, what do I know.
Minor League Player of the Year helps
Go back 20 years quit the glee club and play baseball.
This might one of your best comments ever and that’s saying a lot!
Another good calculated risk to have him locked up and starting in CF Opening Day vs KC.
Madrigal would selfishly speaking be icing to have from Day 1 depending on whether it makes financial sense to extend a spark plug who is believed will have all the tools except power.
Moncada should be the next one the White Sox lock up to a long term deal.
I’d prefer Giolito. Something akin to the Nola deal,
He’ll want to leave as a free agent. He’ll go back to Washington
Wrek, do you know this as a fact or you are just making an assumption since he was drafted by Washington?
I predict Moncada gets MVP votes this year.
They trade him too in the middle of his deal
Best offseason ever! Very exciting time to be a White Sox fan!
In the immortal words of Hawk Harrelson, Yes! Hell Yeah!!!
Chisox will win the Central in 2020. I’m a Braves fan, so I don’t have a dog in this fight, but they should be really good.
Damn this White Sox Dynasty started faster than the Padres dynasty! Crazy!
Don’t you want to contain yourself until they finally get to.500?
See what I mean about being a bad troll? You tried to troll someone who was already trolling someone else. You and Assume Facts should have a quick huddle and work on approach.
Don’t sleep in the Padres just yet.
They have to win to be a dynasty. White Sox at best will be a 3rd place team.
If they win the AL Cwntral I’ll leave this place.
MAZARA … as a Ranger FaN, I still think Mazara’s potential is uintapped at 24 y/o.
He’s a confident Corner, but not a lot of speed. He’s big and has H U G E power.
Sox may see “Out of the **Ball Park Swing”, before his exit from ChiSox.
They made a GOOD Deal for Mazara.
Any thoughts on why he struggled to take the next step? He looked pretty good in the limited times I saw him, but clearly plateaued.
He looks kind of like leury out in the field, I almost prefer leury but let’s see if that untapped potential is true.
I picked them in preseason last year (2019) to finish in first place in the division. Guess I was a year premature or a 2020 psychic !
The OF will be hard to beat if all pans out. I think the quiet Mazara trade will be one MLB bloggers/media will be raving about this year. Glad they did not trade for Betts at this point.
The Sox were rolling until the injuries started last year.
Hmmmm, I’m not sure when the Sox were ever rolling last year. They only played over .500 ball for one month, May – and that was only 16-15.
Then you have a selective memory.
Injuries to Anderson, Moncada and Jiminez at the same time where the Sox had to bring in scrubs to replace them did not help the team for a month.
Too bad didnt make a futures bet back then for 2020
Still think id rather have arb control and cheaper contracts for 6 years than pay this kind of deal for what could be horrible if he doesnt live up to the deal. The whole point of arbitration is to protect teams from one hit wonders that flare out and then are stuck eating away at the cap with little to no production. Huge gamble if he winds up only being a billy butler/ byron buxton over the entirety of the contract.
Knowing what you’re going to pay someone five years from now makes it much easier to plan for future signings.
The $20 mil they will pay him on the back end of this deal might have been $50 mil if he blows up like they’re hoping.
Agree that it helps the team engage in long-term planning, and it also helps fans do the same. It’s nice to imagine that young stars will stick around through at least a portion of their prime years. And if it does encourage cores to become more stable, then it’s good for the sport generally.
players making a lot of money is not good for the sport. the more they make the more you pay that’s how economics works
“players making a lot of money is not good for the sport”
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve read in this entire comment section. The money is either going to the players or the owners; it’s not just going away. Games aren’t getting cheaper anytime soon.
This. Return back to a day when you can settle in and know what to expect when a team comes to town with a regular lineup and continuity across multiple years. Braves, Padres, Jays should do likewise with their cores
who cares of the money os a huge gamble. I mean who pets on a prospect to turn out to be Francisco Lindor for Mookie Betts
Kris Bryant will make close to $50mil in his last two years of arb. Then he is gone. That……no bueno. Year 7, Roberts will still be on the squad. This deal is a no brainer for such elite talent.
whats the total
Very smart move… as long as he doesn’t turn out to be Rusney Castillo or Yasmany Tomas (though I doubt he will). From the times I’ve seen him in the minors and from all the reports, dude looks legit. Exciting times ahead for the south siders.
more than half top prospects fail
Main Reason why the White Sox will not win in 2020……
RIC RENTERIA is the Manager !
Yeah, he has really destroyed some talented teams.
If these New White Sox players cannot bring the Fans into Sox Park……those Summer Dog Night Promotions will !
Louy Bobby bobby-head night followed by ELVIS night BOOM , championship:)
Meanwhile the spanking new Joe Maddon restaurant in the Mall of Wrigley mega complex is closing after just a few months. Womp womp womp.
My Predictions for 2020……
Ric Renteria will be the First Manager fired !
Yankees will NOT win the World Series……
Braves will NOT get Kris Bryant……..
Red Sox miss the Playoffs again !
Mets – Nats – Phillies make the playoffs !
Angels will not make 500
Brewers trade Yelich in July
Kris Bryant is a Dodger !
This is the first team Renteria is going to have that has actually a legit roster. What the Cubs did to him was wrong after improving their wins with the crap roster he was given by Theo.
Good move by the ChiSox….. they’ve done very well this offseason. This is another smart move to build their club up and appeal to their fan base and players for more support for the managements’ direction.
predictions by these comment sections are spot on! now predict JT woln’t resign so he ends up resigning.
White Sox should do a mini fire sale. I’m not sure what they have in the system but Basbae, c, etc along with MLB players not thought to be part of the plan four years from now should be put together for a young talent probably a pitcher. Tallion or something similar could be the target. Maybe Archer, Tallion, and Bell for most of the farm and non core MLB talent. Not sure how they value Archer but he could be removed if not a negative at this point.
Nope, bad idea. Now is not the time to empty your farm system. Keep developing your prospects for depth. They can always deal an extra SP, catcher or minor league OF later on near the trade deadline. Has to be the right player and the right time though.
Archer would be a great role model for a young clubhouse. Magnetic personality and highly cerebral approach to the game.
A crown jewel acquisition at this stage of the rebuild
Lou Bobby may be a future mvp?
The closed the Yankees PED suspension comments section. LMAO! I wonder why.
I swear, if the Yankees didn’t cheat with sign stealing and PEDs, or spend a quarter billion on annual payroll, that franchise would be irrelevant, just like they were in the ‘80s. Man I miss the 80s. lol
He abused his wife
Dangit! I wanted it to be PEDs. Just another wife beater.
SOX DIENASTY! South side for life. Man fawk the Bronx. Fawk G Cole and fawk Zack Wheeler for not coming! South side is a paradise and the dynasty is in full swing. Whoever called us the Padres of the Midwest—That was not cool!!
The Yankees didn’t cheat with sign stealing the Astros and Red Sox did. Yanks got fined for having a phone in the dugout. The Sox were fined for stealing signs. Big difference. Get your facts straight. And there’s nothing illegal about a $250MM payroll. Did you complain when the Sox set the record at $246 in 2018, when they “bought” the WS? Would you complain if the WS did the same? Of course not. Individuals use PEDs, as they have across baseball, not the Yankees as a team. Get your head out of your butt CSC. You sound ignorantly biased.
Well, I guess he will be up day 1, which will be good to see.
That’s what I’m talking about! Keep it going. I’d love to see Madrigal get extended also and be the Opening Day 2B in Chicago. Yoan and Giolito also. Especially Yoan.
The best part about these deals, the AAV gets kept down. AAV is what matters with the luxury tax threshold, not straight payroll. Theoretically a team could have a $250MM payroll and not reach the luxury tax payroll if they have enough contracts like Eloy’s and Robert’s, keeping the AAV down in their 5th and 6th years. And yes, I’m fully aware JR will never let the payroll get anywhere close to $200MM, let alone $250MM.
AAV for Robert’s first 6 years = $8,333,333
The WhiteSox have never even sniffed the luxury tax line. If this were Boston, Hou, LA, CHC, NY etc. I’d buy the luxury tax deal but I don’t know if the white Sox are ever going to be toeing that line. We’ll see what that line even is after the next CBA.
Love these signings!! So smart to lock up the younger players on team friendly deals. I’d still like to sign a couple of relievers. And really like to add Castellanos.
“Lock them up! Lock them up!”
Mookie Betts will cost the Red Sox 59.5 million for his services through his arbitration years,with no option years.
Robert will cost the White Sox 48 million through his arbitration seasons.,with the two 20 million option years.
It’s a big bet that Robert will be that good and healthy,but not a bad one.
It’s still a bet though and those can break any number of ways.
Given the economics of baseball it’s a smart move for a franchise like the Sox to lock him up.
There is risk, but the two option years is the greatest reward…. and he starts on MLB roster…. Betts maybe losing service time to Boston on the hypothetical that they can’t afford an extension and will need to trade him… Boston also losses leverage in any trade negotiation based on his rental status… the value of Quintana and Eaton in trades was directly tied to their contracts
And the massive equity they built signing Sale to a long term deal, the value of which is finally expiring this season.
“Lock him up! Lock him up!”
love love love this deal for Roberts, can’t wait to see him on opening day!
now go get Madrigal done.
These type of contracts will either be great or total bombs. ..
I hope the Mets lock up Alonso, but he can demand more due to having a great season already under his belt. I think 4yr/$50mil is fair for Polar Bear
2 problems with that.
1) As you said, he already has an elite season under his belt.
2) His biggest asset is the one that pays the most in arbitration.
Who gives big contracts to a 1B?
The Padres
Helton, Pujols, Hosmer, Ortiz, Votto, Goldschmidt…
Agree. Great way to build fan equity. Sign up popular, highly regarded players to long term deals. Let your fanbase know you’re in it for the long haul with a face of the franchise. Love this trend: back to the 70s when you get to know teams by their lineups- the Earl Weaver Os, Big Red Machine, 69 Cubs
This is great!! I look forward to many years of Robert covering CF. I’ll also dream of signing Betts to a contract next year.
Very smart move with a guy like this. Look at what’s happening to the Cubs right now. If they just would have signed their young talent like Baez, Schwarber, Bryant, and Contreras to 6+ years or more right away, they wouldn’t be in this boat right now. This is another knock on Epstein. They were so sure about Bryant, that they sent him back down for for a couple weeks to get the extra year of control, but they could have just signed him to a contract like this.
These types of contracts seem to be becoming more and more common for teams that fall into the low to mid-level payrolls, which is good for the players and good for the teams. There is obviously a gamble for any team to commit more than $40-50M to any player that has limited to no MLB experience, but in the long-run this can easily help the team by saving tens of millions through the arbitration process, and by buying out a few FA years gives them a longer window if the player pans out, and allows them to control them at a fraction of the market value they might have.
about 20 million of ot works but only of he is a star. of not they lose 60 million. history tells us he has about a 60% chance of success in mlb amd a much smaller chance of being a star
Lock them up while young and controllable
Preller take note
This reminds me of the Jon Singleton contract but on a much larger scale. Singleton took tons of abuse from veterans and union reps over the 5 year $10M contact he signed before ever swing the mlb roster. But as it turned out he ended up being a total bust and hopefully secured his future with the $10M guarantee. Roberts has now essentially guaranteed himself $75M even if he gets injured or never pans out. That’s a hell of an insurance policy to mitigate the risk. Smart move on his part.
He should get fat on twinkies and never play again just because
These contracts make a ton of sense for both sides, but you have to be an exceptional talent first. The Sox have led the way and IMO have not been burned yet. Super excited for some good south side baseball in 2020.
I’ve wondered about these situations before. Why don’t the teams and players agree to these contracts with a clause stating the player doesn’t need to be added to the 25/26 or 40 man rosters until opening day, but must be added then? This would give the team an extra roster spot to evaluate an additional player until then.
That makes no sense at all. You do not need to be on the 40 man roster until opening day in the first place and you do not need to be on the 40 man roster to be invited to spring training.
In fact there are always more than 40 players in spring training and they get a look without being on the 40 man. If they make the team they get added before opening day.
You do not need to free up a 40 man spot on ML roster to evaluate a player in spring training
Good for Robert. I think he is potentially selling himself short, but it’s still a ton of money, and he avoids the stress of Hahn’s manipulation.
But frankly, this tactic is not a good one long term, as you never know if guys will pan out or not, and the WS are doing this because they are both too cheap to sign talented players, and don’t see the value in just calling players up when ready to work on development, and determine long-term value a majors.
As far as Madrigal is concerned, signing a light-hitting 2b to an expensive extension is pretty absurd.
Here is an idea. Call him up, and invest the service time in development. Especially if the goal is to compete this year.
They could have done that last year with Robert and still signed an extension.
Fair point on just calling up Madrigal for the opening day roster and only extend in the future if he is a dynamo, but doubt they do it.
Based on the extensions they have given out in the past and Madrigal’s skill set, I’d like to think they’re smart enough to give him a reasonable extension, not an expensive one. TA only got $25M over 6.
Madrigal is a potential perennial batting title candidate—a highly skilled contact hitter who almost never strikes out. You need guys like that in your lineup. He’s also an elite fielder at 2B. If you can’t see the value in a player like Madrigal, then you’re not a knowledgeable baseball fan.
I’d like to think he meant the FO shouldn’t feel they have to keep Madrigal in AAA for 2 weeks if he doesn’t want to extend..and appreciates the other tools he “should” provide as the #4 pick.
Look forward to him distracting pitchers on the bases and allowing the next guy up (?) to see more fastballs.
That’s not what he said.
That’s pretty much exactly what I said.
I want Madrigal in the opening day roster, because he has earned it.
But he is not a lock prospect anymore than any other player, and he does not hit his ceiling, and continues to not generate power, you gave an extension to Aaron Miles.
Just call him up and let the arbitration process work out. If he beats you, so be it, enjoy the success, and pay him.
He called Madrigal a “light-hitter” who’s unworthy of an extension. Not sure how else anyone with a 5th grade education could interpret it any other way.
He is a light-hitter. He was a light hitter in college as well.
And right now, he has proven nothing.
The White Sox do not have to give extensions to every single player, and they certainly shouldn’t do so to avoid going through the arbitration process.
Again, I want him on the roster day one. I just don’t see the point of an extension when he still wouldn’t reach free agency for half a decade.
God forbid a player have to prove it on the ML diamond.
Madrigal also doesn’t take a lot of walks and has shown little to no power in pro or college ball. He’s a tiny guy, so that lack of power isn’t unexpected. A recent top prospect with a very similar skill set is Luis Urias. So far in his first taste of MLB he has looked over matched and was just traded for an unheralded rookie OF coming off of a season where he had a .738 OPS and 90 OPS+. There is definitely a world where MLB pitchers continually challenge Madrigal and his slappy singles only approach leaves him as an empty batting average and glove first utility player.
Through their first 600 ABs in MiLB Jose Altuve had 5 HR and Madrigal had 4. Altuve did his against rookie ball and A Ball, while Madrigal did his mostly against AA and AAA Ball.
By the way Altuve is listed as 5’6″ and 165 lbs, Madrigal is listed at 5’7″ and 165 lbs.You don’t have to be big to end up with some power at the plate. Additionally, Altuve didn’t hit double figures in HRs until his 5th MLB season. he had over 2000 MLB plate appearances before the start of the season he hit 15 HRs.
I am fine with the Sox offering him an extension and I am fine if they choose to go through arbitration. If he comes relatively close to Altuve then then all is well either way.
I’m so sick of the “Madrigal doesn’t take walks” crap that gets posted in every article he’s mentioned in. He walked ~8% of the time in A+ and AA last year and ~10% in AAA. He is MORE than capable of taking walks. Unless he stops making contact at an elite rate and starts striking out, he takes plenty of walks.
FWIW, Urias struck out ~5x more often that Madrigal in AAA. His bat-to-ball skills are nowhere near Madrigal’s.
If you look at Altuve in the minors, you’ll see that he had a .191 ISO as a 20-21 year old in A+ and a .209 ISO as a 21 year old in AA. Madrigal has had a .091 ISO as a 21-22 in MiLB. His ISO was only .141 as a 21 year old junior using metal and composite bats. Even using Altuve, who is a once in a generation type of player, as your example, Altuve struggled mightily in his first 1500+ MLB PA with a .092 ISO, 92 OPS+ and below average 3 WAR. I’m not saying Madrigal is a sure fire bust, but to think that he doesn’t have a lot of risk is crazy to me.
Nick Madrigal’s only risk is him not hitting HR’s. BFD!
Madrigal does everything else on the field extremely well. He possesses a high contact bat (51/21 BB/SO ratio in 705 pro PA’s) that should manifest into a perennial contender for the AL batting title (.341/.331 in AA/AAA). He has plus speed that had him steal nearly as many bases (35) as Luis Robert (36) in the minors last season, Gold Glove caliber defense at 2B that includes just 5 errors at 2B since beginning his pro career in 2018 and a baseball IQ that is off the charts.
He has not even had an at bat in the big leagues but now he is already not only a batting champion but will be competing for batting titles on a regular basis?
Lets let him get his first hit first
Bad take…. service time manipulation is the leverage that teams have to make these contracts work…. the goal is to compete this year and for an extended window of time…. Madrigal has more to prove before he gets this type of extension…. Although, I could see something closer to what Tim Anderson made
Madrigal has more to prove to you? I’m pretty sure the White Sox know what they have in Madrigal, and all the rest of these young guys. Fans treat these franchises like they’re kids; they give them an allowance and treat them like idiots. Have some faith in the GM. If these guys look terrible come May or June, then is the time to question their evaluation of these highly regarded prospects.
Rick Hahn has seven straight losing seasons.
He hasn’t earned anyone’s faith.
Madrigal hit 300 in the minors but he has no power…. like inside the park HRs only…. name one player in the big leagues getting it done like that? His contact rate is exceptional, but what if he struggles? He simply hasn’t earned an extension like Robert
“Too cheap to sign talented players”? Let’s deconstruct. They extended several talented players, not to mention adding several others on the open market. And these players signed contracts. So by extension, the White Sox have signed talented players. What are we missing? That’s like saying “maximumvelocity is too loquacious to use words to complete a sentence”
Nick Madrigal next?
Great decision by Hahn and Robert. What a good time to be a Sox fan. All the haters need to quit being closet fans. That or they’re just consumed by jealousy.
The thing that pisses me off is that the Sox can’t do anything good without the Cubs being mentioned. It’s time they get out from under this stigma
Whachutalkinboutwillis?
This is great for the white Sox right, yet half this thread is about this fictional Sox/cubs rivalry. We as fans need to stop worrying about what the team from the north side is doing and worry about the Al central. It’s stupidity
ChicagoFan. White Sox are making moves. Its exciting. I too wish Sox fans could enjoy this for how it helps the White Sox and how the White Sox are improving without comparing them to fake rivals
What he is talking about Willis is that the White Sox fans have such an obsession with the Cubs that everything for a Sox fan revolves around the Cubs. Even here Sox fans make it about the Cubs. Pretty sad as he points out v
Cub fan obsessing about White Sox fans obsessing about Cub fans. “I’m not the stalker. You’re the stalker”
$106,000,000 and hasn’t played an inning in the majors. Wth.
But the Sox are cheap (sarcasm Violet)
2 things are evident.
1: fans have no idea that this isn’t really locking players up much past their arb years.
2: no player has made 50 million in arbitration(Mookie and KB are scheduled to). This includes players that have won MVP, ROY, Cy youngs, multiple GG,SS,AS, etc. the ONLY way this extension and the extension to Eloy makes sense is if the players become better than guys like Harper, Machado, Gerrit Cole and on the same par of Mookie and KB. Otherwise all they are doing is setting up the last 2 arb years to be a savings while letting the 3-4 years be an extreme overpay that what they’d make in arbitration. The option years are the years that buy out free agency. Once again at 20 million/year, they’re banking that they are paying perennial All Star, MVP candidate players. Otherwise, it’s an overpay. These extensions just don’t make any sense to me.
Hard to overpay Luis Robert
It makes me laugh. The Sox and JR have been ripped on for years by so many for being cheap, yet when they actually spend money on any player, all of a sudden it’s a massive overpay.
No one’s going to know whether Robert’s and Eloy’s deals are great deals for the Sox or are massive overpays for another 4 or 5 years. So the Sox pay a little more for blue chip prospects in their early arbitration years to lock them up for 8 years. If a team can handle the loss if they bust, then I’d definitely take that risk on both.
If either come even close to their potential, years 6, 7, and 8 of those deals will look like bargains. If not, then either (or both) will be gone after year 6. Simple as that.
White Sox track record for taking gambles on players early resulting in massive team friendly deals: Sale, Quintana, Eaton, Big Hurt.
One factor that people are leaving out how the White Sox have the tenth pick in the upcoming draft and are not losing other picks with not signing a player with a qualified offered attached to him. Smart baseball moves by the White Sox to improve their MLB team and farm system. Hahn will be considered as executive of the year!
Things are about to shine on the Southside!