Angels shortstop Andrelton Simmons is one of baseball’s most prominent players entering a contract year. It remains to be seen whether the Angels will stop him from reaching the open market, but they have held “internal discussions” regarding an extension for Simmons, Jeff Fletcher of the Orange County Register wrote a few weeks ago. However, as of then, they hadn’t reached out to Simmons or his representatives about a long-term deal, per Fletcher.
Simmons offered an uncontroversial statement in regards to his future, saying: “I’m not even thinking about it. The only time I think about it is when (the media) brings it up. It is what it is. All I can do is play. I’m going to try to get better in spring training and just play good and at the end of the day, we’ll be where we need to be.”
Acquired from the Braves entering the 2016 season, Simmons has been highly effective as an Angel, thanks in no small part to his well-known wizardry as a defender. His brilliance at short gives him a high floor, meaning he doesn’t have to star at the plate in order to provide significant value to his team. For example, Simmons totaled 5.0-plus fWAR in both 2017 and ’18 despite combining for a decent (hardly great) .285/.334/.419 line over those two seasons. But last season represented a step back for Simmons, who wasn’t himself because of an ankle injury. Simmons wound up with a .264/.309/.364 line and 1.7 fWAR across 424 plate appearances, though he did continue to amaze in the field, accounting for 12 Defensive Runs Saved and a 10.4 Ultimate Zone Rating.
Simmons is a historically marvelous defender, but as Fletcher explains in his piece, shortstops tend to wear down quickly once they reach their 30s. So, there would be plenty of risk on the Angels’ part in making a multiyear commitment to Simmons now, especially after he put up such a mediocre 2019 on the offensive side. A healthy Simmons may very well bounce back, though, and if that happens and if the Halos don’t extend him, he’ll enter what may be an interesting class of free agents at his position. The Athletics’ Marcus Semien and the Phillies’ Didi Gregorius are the other two headlining free agents-to-be whom shortstop-needy clubs could pursue.
Reaction Halo Clown’s!!?
You’re the only halo clown around Shane
there is his significant other dr. doom, too.
Why does anyone respond to his constant trolling? Why isn’t he banned?
Simmons is the biggest trade steal since the Tigers got Max Scherzer. I hope they extend him 4 more years. Longevity on one team will help his hall case some day.
Simmons a hofer? Nahhhh Also the Meadows and Glasnow trade is a greater steal than Simmons
He has been the best defender at a premium defensive position for almost a decade now. If he can put together a few more top notch defensive seasons with average ish offensive numbers, he has a case in my eyes.
Andruw Jones was arguably the best CF of all time who also put up some decent offense for a bit
And he’s still a question mark for the HOF, though he saw a decent jump in this years voting (he’s still a long way off)
I’m someone who loves great defense and as a Braves fan know just how good he is, but I have a hard time seeing him getting in the HOF.
And if Simmons played CF the comparison might be more illustrative.
Ozzie Smith was the greatest defensive SS of all time who put up decent offense. His HOF case was pretty ? free.
SImmons has played roughly 7 1/2 seasons and is juuust about half way to Ozzie, bWAR-wise through age 29. It’s absolutely too early to start talking HOF with him but it ain’t that crazy an idea, IMO.
and Simmonds is probably a better hitter than Ozzie.
Andrew Jones Is not he best center fielder of all time…he was a great one but best of all time? I mean Mike Trout is easily better than him and is still playing
I believe he meant arguably the best “defensive” CF of all time and accidentally left the word out.
Not directly to you, but because Andruw’s HOF argument is kind of my pet peeve, I’ll put this on here for others to read.
Ozzie was THE best defensive SS ever and a below league average hitter and he gets in no doubt with his 67.6 fWAR, but Jones who is also THE best defensive CF with above average offense with his 67.0 fWAR is a question is laughable.
Don’t think Jones is the best defensive CF of all time? Go look at some stats. Don’t want to look them up? Ozzie was roughly 30 runs better defensively than the second best SS. Andruw?? 108.
I get he fell off at the end and fell hard, but it doesn’t change that he was the best there was patrolling CF, and if that’s not hall of fame worthy with over 400 HRs then I don’t know what is.
I like Andrew Jones a lot but I watched Jim Edmonds patrol CF and I have never saw anyone do it better…but That’s purely my opinion without looking up numbers…to me Jim Edmonds is the best there ever was defensively…plus even though it was a long time ago Willie Mays might have an argument…don’t forget Ken Griffey jr
Willie Mays certainly has an argument for the best defensive CF ever. And in-his-prime Griffey Jr does too, even though injuries ended his prime defensive career earlier than most of us would have liked.
The HOF unaminously selected Mariano and a handful of relievers have been given easy paths to enshrinement because of stupid savd totals while DH is dirty word. A batter who specializes in hitting 4 to 5 plate appearances a night 150 games a year is to “specialized,” but a high-leverage reliever who faces ideally 3 to 4 batters a night 60 games a year is a full-time player? Manny Ramirez was a beast at the plate, but was Ringling Bros. in LF. Perspectives are going to have to change, but there are examples of glove first players like Brooks Robinson, Luis Aparicio, Bill Mazeroski, etc.
Oh and to my point about Edgar vs Mariano regardless of the fact that he OPS’d like Jesus (1.705 OPS, not a typo, .579 [AVG]/.652[OBP]/1.053[SLG]) against him; Edgar Martinez 8674 Regular Season + 148 Postseason = 8822 Plate Appearances career while Mariano had 5103 Regular Season + 527 Postseason = 5630 career batters faced.
5630/8822= 63.8% or Mariano (best closer ever) was on the field contributing to his teams success 2/3 as often as Edgar (best DH ever). Edgar played 18 seasons and less than 2% (1.67% to be exact) were spent in the Postseason. Mariano played 19 seasons but had roughly 10% (9.36% to be exact) were due to him being on a Dynasty Team that was one of the most successful in sports history. He literally couldn’t have had more Postseason history.
If they can screw up Edgar waiting 10 years and Mariano getting the first unanimous selection, you have to expect a learning curve on an element of the game without clearly defined borders (defense). That being said Jones will get in as a stellar CF (most of the hesitation is that he was a stud for 10 years and a dud for the better part of 6 yeara there after and worse still he retired by 35 for being too fat and slow to stay in the majors).
Simmons is other world.
The top 10 defensive ratings for non-catchers since 2012 (when Andrelton debuted) is as follows:
SS Simmons 157.9
SS Crawford 95.1
SS Lindor 80.1
SS Iglesias 79.3
SS Hardy 77.0
CF Cain 68.4
3B Machado 66.5
CF Kiermaier 64.9
CF Hamilton 64.3
3B Arenado 63.0
Back to Andruw Jones he compilled in his first 10 years in the league (ages 19-29) a defensive rating of 108.0
Over that same time period (96′ to ’06), the top 10 non-catcher defenders were…
CF Jones 108.0
3B Beltre 107.1
SS Everett (Adam) 82.5 <— undervalued
3B Rolen 79.8
3B Koskie 54.2
SS Wilson (Jack) 53.6
SS Gonxalez (Alex) 51.3
CF Patterson 51.1
3B Chavez 50.5
2B Kennedy 50.3
Circle back to Simmons and realize he's a full 50 points ahead of Jones and Beltre (possibly the best CF and 3B in the last half-century) and in 3 less years. Just crazy good defense
By Andrelton!
Since Mays and Griffey were from a different period we will compare them to Jones through same 19-29 seasons
Mays 8013.0 Inn/2389 PO/67 A/48 E/64 TZ
Jones 12888.2 Inn/3895 PO/97 A/35 E/135 TZ
Junior 12681.0 Inn/3633 PO/107 A/55 E/72 TZ
All are first decade in the league, Griffey and Jones from age 19 and Mays age 20. Even if you extrapolate the numbers for Mays he is a 100 TZ (total zone) with 100 assists, but also around 70+ errors, while his PO total would be closer to Griffey than Jones. Pretty telling that Jones easily beats out two of the best defensers in CF on paper.
Prime Jones was the greatest CF of all-time and by a decent amount. Less mistakes, more putouts, similar assists. Checkout the side by side I did below.
Prime Jones was no match for Devon White.
If you got Mays TZ from Fangraphs, 64 TZ is his total from 1956-1961. his age 25-30 seasons. from ’51-’61, his 20-30 seasons, he checks in at 104, also worth noting that he played 34 games in ’52 and missed all of ’53 to serve in the military.
Andrelton Simmons is a great defensive player, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. He has zero chance of becoming a HOF’er. Ozzie’s in because was the greatest defensive player in the history of the game. Simmons isn’t even close to Ozzie, either offensively or defensively (in respects to their career longevity and totals). Besides, if Omar Vizquel can’t crack Cooperstown with his defensive acumen and nearly 3,000 hits, it would take Simmons another 15 years of elite defensive and positive offense to even sniff election.
“Simmons isn’t even close to Ozzie, either offensively or defensively (in respects to their career longevity and totals)”
Right, that’s typically what you find when one player has played for 8 seasons and the other played 20 and retired.
“Besides, if Omar Vizquel can’t crack Cooperstown with his defensive acumen and nearly 3,000 hits, it would take Simmons another 15 years of elite defensive and positive offense to even sniff election.’
Simmons could pass Vizquel in WAR in as little as a season and a half, has already passed Vizquel by most defensive metrics, despite Omar having played 24 seasons. 2877 hits looks impressive, until you do the math and see that’s averaging 112 hits a year.
Devon White is hands down the best defensive CF and got to more fly balls than Edmonds and Griffey ever could. He made that 1992 World Series catch look easy. Torii Hunter was also a great CF in his Twins days. Devo had speed, range and route running that was marvelous to watch.
OntariGro – agreed 100%
You haven’t watched any Angel games lately have you.?
You can’t compare SS to CF. Ozzie Smith never gets into the HOF as a CF, but Andrew Jones easily gets into the Hall as a SS.
He is. Ozzie didn’t be one a good hitter until his thirties.
Jones probably juiced. No proof but he fell off so quick.
PEDs
Sounds airtight to me. Roid users are certainly known for their superhuman OF range…
He showed up fat to LA, then had knee surgery. Still managed 120 and 126 OPS+ playing part-time with the White Sox and Yankees age 33-34. Not really seeing a smoking gun.
Oh, forgot the 2 successful seasons in Japan.
Andrew Jones is connected to steroids, although some users have gotten in Jones will not be one of them.
Ah, the ol’ detail-free accusation, just like my grandpa used to do!
He had contemporaries that were better than him defensively as well Jim Edmonds comes to mind, Andrew Jones is a great player but he was never the best defensive centerfielder in baseball
100%, Andrew Jones is a great player, and for a time of great hitter, but he was never the best centerfielder in the game, and then he got fat
There is also Ozzie’s celebrity, hos personality, and the fact he was a media darling..
The HOF is not just a numbers game, unfortunately. Andruw deserves to get in, and the fact he hasn’t been voted in clearly illustrates that.. I think he will ultimately get in, but he should have been a borderline 1st ballot guy pretty easily..
Simmons has a little ways to go if he wants to get in, but he also flies under the national spotlight a bit..That wont help his case, and neither will his battles consistently staying healthy..
It is a completely different timeline. Ozzie probably could’ve made adjustments to his batting. He was the trendsetter when it came to defensive range and metrics. It wasn’t just his famous backflips that made him the “wizard of ah’s”.
Edmonds was amazing to watch and had a real knack for highlight reel catches, but Jones was absolutely better.
Edmonds should be still on the HoF ballot. Dumbest one and done ever.
Strop and Arrieta for clevenger and feldman…lol
last several decades will be hard to top Derek lowe and Jason varitek for that shell of a reliever called heathcliff Slocumb.
redeye. come on man. do you realize thus guy will be talked about. he will have a case. honestly reminds me a bit of Ozzie Smith.
That’s pretty impossible to assess. Simmons has performed well in Cali-but Newcomb isn’t a dead horse himself. Using the $8m a WAR figure, Simmons has created $117.2m excess WAR before this season. Newcomb, also has created excess value, specifically, $27.8m. That’s a $90m difference, Newcomb is moving back to the rotation this year, and he’s got 5 more years of control. It’s totally conceivable that if he manages to average 3 wins a season for the next 5 years, this trade roughly balances out.
When you add into the equation that, stellar as it is, defense at short isn’t as valuable as the starting 5, it further complicates the trade analysis.
i’d rather have a stellar ss than a shaky 5th anyday.
Not sure where you have that analysis, but superstar defense at the most important defensive position is way more important than a slightly above replacement level starter
I’m with @black69. It’s really difficult to assess the trade. A proven defensive shortstop who hasn’t found his hitting groove in almost a decade; Or an average starter, turned reliever, turned starter who’s just now figuring out his stuff. It’s hard to say.
“It’s totally conceivable that if he manages to average 3 wins a season for the next 5 years, this trade roughly balances out.”
So all he’d have to do is average 2.5x his WAR/year for the next half decade, except Newcomb only has 4 years of control left (FA in 2024), making it an even taller order.
“When you add into the equation that, stellar as it is, defense at short isn’t as valuable as the starting 5”
You’re right, in this case it’s orders of magnitude more valuable, so far.
Yes because WAR is the only stat to look at to judge how good a player is and 100% accurate….smh. How about knowing Simmons is an awesome glove and arguably more valuable than a low end starter who plays 20% of the games and maybe only pitching 5 innings in each of those games. HOF idk about that but heck they let Phil Rizzuto in so who knows.
WAR is exactly for assessing how good someone is/was compared to their peers. WAR is supposed to be synoptical perspective of a set parameter of dates or conditions.
Hitting .300/.400/.600 is far less amazing today than 100 years ago. WAR rates the statistical accomllishments of a player against the standard norms of their competitive environment.
WAR is not a predictive tool and should not be used for salary negotiation or prediction of future success. A player getting 10 WAR in 2025 does not guarantee a similar season in 2026.
By the way WAR says that Simmons is ridiculously good with the glove, which is why he has almost 40 WAR. He needs about 7-8 more good seasons of defense or around 5-6 great seasons of defense and he’ll make the HOF.
WAR is not a perfect stat, and it places too much emphasis on certain aspects, and little to none on others. However, hitting .300/.400/.600 is probably more an accomplishment today, in 2020, than it was 100 years ago, in 1920. None of those statistics would have come close to leading the league. Heck, .400 wouldn’t have led the league in hitting, let alone on-base percentage.
It’s great when people use logical tools such as math to provide evidence to support a theory. Your right, its too early to tell. Simple little things can help a pitcher become more effective, we witnessed this when Cole went from Pittsburgh to Houston. What was the change again, he used more fastballs up in the zone and didn’t use his 2 seam fastball as much? The result was a very good pitcher turned into an elite pitcher.
The Angels won that trade hands down. You’re never getting a 7 bWAR out of Sean Newcomb.
While I certainly agree, the Angels definitely won the trade, but for some to call it one of the worst recent trades is just not true..
When grading a trade, it is incredibly easy to look at it several years down the road..Although, for what it is worth, even at the time, most analysts did not think the Braves got maximum value for Simmons.
From the Braves point if view, they were heading into a complete rebuild, and they had a relatively expensive glove first SS on their hands. Since the entire league knew the Braves were not going to hold onto Simmons, and since the SS market at the time wasn’t exactly barren, they were likely never going to get a great haul for Simmons anyways..
Add to that the fact that Simmons was looked at as a very mediocre offensive player, and it tells you why his value was relatively limited. This is also especially at a time when teams were getting more power and offense from their shortstops..
Even so, the Braves were still able to pry away two risky, yet two very talented arms in Newcomb and Ellis..
At the time, Ellis was seen as either a back-end starter, or a possible very effective bullpen arm. He had an excellent combo with two solid pitches, and had shown a propensity for striking guys out as he climbed the minor league ranks..
Obviously, Newcomb was the prize the Braves had their eyes set on. He was a well built LHP that could run his FB into the mid to upper 90s, had an awesome breaking ball to pair with it, and was developing his other offerings. He looked like he had the makings of being a frontline starter, and at worst, he would still be a very effective and solid #4 that could eat up innings..
His stuff has always been tantalizing, but he did come with some warning signs. Like Ellis, Newk had also shown some issues controlling his electric stuff; however, the Braves’ scouts and staff undoubtedly thought they could help Newk pitch more consistently. If Newcomb was able to harness his command and control of his electric arsenal, then the sky would be the limit for him..
Years down the road, the Braves ended up trading Chris Ellis for Jaime Garcia, and Newcomb has yet to really put everything together in a Braves uniform. He has shown plenty of flashes of being that dominant LH starter the Braves dreamed of, but consistency has been the biggest issue for Newk..
Even so, it isn’t like Simmons has taken off in an Angel’s uniform either..His offense hasn’t improved much, if at all, but he did prove the Braves wrong in the fact his defense hasn’t suffered as he’s gotten older.
That was one fear they had keeping Simmons through the rebuild. They thought with defense being Simmons main calling card, and really his only asset, that in a few years, he would no longer be the same all-world defender at SS…He has proven that false, and hopefully he can continue to prove people wrong. Although, if not for his defense, Simmons would simply be a defensive backup, or just a probable versatile, glove first utility player..
Simmons was never able to learn to take a walk, he did manage to cut down on his strikeouts, and hopefully he’s no longer hitting an infield pop-up once every game…lol He has shown some glimpses of being a .300 hitter with 15HR and 402B, but like Newcomb, consistency kept Simmons from truly ever living up to his massive potential..
“Even so, it isn’t like Simmons has taken off in an Angel’s uniform either..His offense hasn’t improved much, if at all”
After spending 4 years with each club, he’s improved in every major offensive category except for triples, including a .057 OPS increase, More hits, XBH, runs, stolen bases, etc.
“Although, if not for his defense, Simmons would simply be a defensive backup, or just a probable versatile, glove first utility player..”
Yes, if it weren’t for his being the best defensive SS of his generation he wouldn’t be as valuable a SS.
“he did manage to cut down on his strikeouts”
Yes he went from the 2nd or 3rd most difficult hitter to strike out to the #1 most difficult to strike out.
” but like Newcomb, consistency kept Simmons from truly ever living up to his massive potential..”
Besides being an apples/oranges comparison, and inaccurate (save for his injury-shortened 2019 he’s consistently improved at the plate while continuing his legendary defense), the past tense is weird. He didn’t die,
Simmons’ offense has vastly improved with the Angels, and he has shown the power that he had one year with the Braves. Regardless, he’s had up to a 7 bWAR with the Angels, and that’s all that matters. Value is value, and Simmons has proven his value is far greater than the return the a Braves got for him.
Andrelton Simmons HOF? LOL. It’s took him roughly 7 years to get 1000 hits. He’s 30 this year. Hmmm. Maybe he’ll play into his middle 40’s… Good player yes. Hall of Fame probably not.
“It’s took him roughly 7 years to get 1000 hits.”
Huh, just like Yount, Trammel, Wallace, Appling, Tinker, Larkin, Reese, and Aparicio, Took Ozzie 8.
Average 3000 hit player spends 20 years in the league. That’s 1000 hits every 6.67 seasons and if he finishes with 2400+ hits and is the best defender at any position all-time. He’ll be voted into the HOF. God knows there are much worse bats. The Maz, Wiz of Oz, Aparicio, Baines (who was a butcher in the field and a DH for 60% of his career and still sucked considering expected OPS for a HOF OF/DH).
He’s not a HOF SS. He’s no Ozzie Smith. More like a Mark Belanger with more power
Simmons? Yeah he’s like a Belanger who hits the ball more often, scores more runs, hits more doubles, more triples, more homeruns, knocks in more runners, strikes out less, and has a SLG larger than his OBP.
So maybe closer to an Ozzie Smith.
Even Ozzie said that Simmons was the best defensive player he has ever seen…
For whatever that is worth to you guys..
Belanger has a career .580 OPS and 68 OPS+. Simmons has a .696 OPS and 80 OPS+. Smith has a .666 OPS and 87 OPS+. He is way closer to Smith than Belanger.
Give it another 5 years at least. At his current pace, he’ll far exceed Ozzie Smith in 10 years.
absolutely should extend him.
as for ss’s losing defense, ozzie was above average in dwar all the way to 39.
I’m the Angels will give him a 3 year exstension. He’s too good to let go.
Lmao. Unless they give him 25 mil a year, he’s not signing for 3 years at age 29 as the best defensive shortstop in this generation
Galvis is better
At what?
DarkSide as good as Galvis is on D, and why Cincy fans aren’t pleased to have him is ridiculous, Andrelton Simmons works on another level.
He’s not getting 5.
There not paying 20+mill for another offensive piece on the books next year-
Trout 37 Pujos 30 Rendon 28 Upton 23 Yes folks that’ ( 118 mill ) for 4 players (3 really Pujos is a complete wash)
Take your pics this year and remember the good times
They’re currently paying 128m for the 5 of them this season. Pujols is gone after 2021, and a 20m/year extension for Simmons would only be adding an additional 5m/year to payroll (he’s making 15 this season). If he looks like the pre-2019 Andrelton (whenever baseball starts) this yeah, seems like an easy call to extend him.
*this year
They have the money and will have a balance of vets and youngsters on the roster to even out payroll. If Rendon and Simmons do as well together locking down the left side as people think this season, it’s a no brainer to try and get Simmons extended.
still have $20 mil to spend before hitting the threshold.
A- They dont go the threshold-
B- I better not hear a peep when you have no money for pitching
C- The money would be much wiser spent on pitching something you have plenty of room for
d- You can get 80% of Simmons in Jose Iglesias for 3 mill a year
Has Arte brainwashed you all as well? You guys complain you have no pitching but you keep wanting to sign 20+ mill a year hitters….. it doesnt work amigos your not an over the cap team or even close really tbh!
You obviously don’t follow the team. You can’t fault an owner who spends money and offers large contracts, not his fault pitchers in your scenario sign elsewhere. Nobody is brainwashed, we are discussing a big market and payroll team and the pitching has had more to do with injuries and deaths so again you obviously don’t follow the team.
A – They’re 20 away from the threshold this season, for 2021 (when a Simmons extension would begin) it’s about 76 million.
B – Again “They’re currently paying 128m for the 5 of them this season. Pujols is gone after 2021, and a 20m/year extension for Simmons would only be adding an additional 5m/year to payroll (he’s making 15 this season). ” I don’t see why the Angels would have to choose one or the other.
C – Or they could do both
D – 80% by what metric? Height? Ia there a different Jose Iglesias you’re referring to?
Oh and E – Why are we assuming Simmons only signs an extension at 20+m/year? Bogaerts is currently the only 20m/year shortstop. Lindor will obviously blow by him in FA but I don’t see Simmons getting that on the open market, especially given how deep the position is right now.
You dont get the point ……you sign him you dont have the proper money to go after pitchers- You want to make the comparison on money but fail to realize that your owner didnt go after any pitching this year with the same allocations….why would he next?
The pitching has more to do with they suck as a unit- Cmon Now Skaggs…please….injuries…well you have no money to sign quality depth to cover them and you dont produce anything from the system yourself….why bc you only sign major hitters to money-
This isnt rocket science here…but again you will all be complaining 2021 when your staff is a pile of slop again but at least you’ll have Simmons-
“You dont get the point ……you sign him you dont have the proper money to go after pitchers”
I do get the point. It would be a stronger one if it were true rather than something you appear to have invented,
“You want to make the comparison on money but fail to realize that your owner didnt go after any pitching this year with the same allocations”
From: mlbtraderumors.com/2020/02/angels-arte-moreno-on-j…
“The Halos did make a legitimate attempt to sign the No. 1 free agent available, right-handed ace Gerrit Cole, as they offered him $300MM over eight years back in December.”
Also tough to sign Teheran and trade for Bundy without “go”ing after pitchers.
“why would he next?”
You’re right. Didn’t manage to land a big name starter this off-season. Never trying to do that again is the most sensible next step.
“Cmon Now Skaggs…please”
Yeah, having a member of your rotation die mid-season, real par-for-the-course stuff. How did the team not just shrug that off?
“well you have no money to sign quality depth to cover them”
Again, completely your own invention.
“why bc you only sign major hitters to money”
You’re also wildly overestimating the probable AAV of a Simmons extension.
“This isnt rocket science here”
The probability of mistaking any of your posts for rocket science is infinitesimal.
Yes you got Rendon Aftttterrrrr Cole offer so next year theres probably no TOR arm bc that is RENDON now!
We are talking about the future here not some celebration of a day you guys had when you made a “”offer” to Cole…. Lets get with the present here shall we….
Do you not understand you have 118 million wrapped up in Pujos Trout Upton and Rendon next year? You have never gone up to 200 million.
.AND you wanna squeeze a (Hofer) Simmons (by your accord) for less than 20 mill (of cource b/c thats what HOfers in their prime get) ??
So now we are at 136 with modest 18 on Simmons and said 4 players, 5 offensive players 136 mill….
And we are suppose to sit here and believe your day dream of fitting in paying the rest of all your arb players, some Tor arms , some depth piece arms, spend a little in the pen, yada yada –
Its nutz my man, your going to have a bottom 10 staff entering 2021 just like you will this year in 2020 and just like you did the year before in 2019 and so on and so forth….its literally almost your guys calling card now
“Yes you got Rendon Aftttterrrrr Cole offer ”
So they did go after pitching. Thank you for recanting your earlier statement.
“so next year theres probably no TOR arm bc that is RENDON now!”
Make up your mind. You’re going to continue this false binary so is it Rendon or a Simmons extension’s fault that the Angels apparently can’t afford to sign a pitcher next offseason?
“Do you not understand you have 118 million wrapped up in Pujos Trout Upton and Rendon next year? ”
Maybe if you and I both repeat it again it’ll sink in and seem more insurmountable.
“AND you wanna squeeze a (Hofer) Simmons (by your accord) for less than 20 mill (of cource b/c thats what HOfers in their prime get) ”
I guess I can repeat that it’s way to early to call him a potential HOF-er, but that he is off to an impressive start,
“And we are suppose to sit here and believe your day dream of fitting in paying the rest of all your arb players, some Tor arms , some depth piece arms, spend a little in the pen,”
Ha! “we.” Believe whatever you like, sitting wherever feels comfortable.
“Its nutz my man, your going to have a bottom 10 staff entering 2021 just like you will this year in 2020 and just like you did the year before in 2019 and so on and so forth….its literally almost your guys calling card now”
Okay.
At this point the Angels have to explore an extension for Simmons. SS prospects are in their teens in the Angels organization and they’ve sent a message that they are in it to win it after the Rendon signing. He will be difficult to replace defensively. Having him hit 8 or 9-hole is something you can live with.
I think Simmons will be an elite defender (the quality that matters most in a SS) for at least another three or four years. His focus and situational awareness are off the charts. He’s the defensive leader and teacher out on the field. He also is humble and doesn’t clash with other elite players. Definitely a candidate for an extension, IMHO.
I’ll trade you Newcomb straight up
for haloshane!
If the Angels aren’t in a legit position to get playoff spot at the deadline, he needs to be traded and would probably net a good return. Angels have an overload in the infield and could easily put Fletcher there.
Once again, save money where you can and have room to sign the real priority in 2021, pitching.
Heck, even if they are playing well it might be better to trade him, especially if Jo is playing well in RF by that time.
but, but, there is no other simmons!
Sarcasm much? We’ve been spoiled by Simmon’s elite defense since he arrived. When he’s gone, and we start filling that spot with replacement level guys….you’re gonna realize that there really is no other Simmons.
reading comprehension much?
Oh, I guess you led with “but, but…” which is the language of sarcasm. So, if you really meant there is no other Simmons, then I agree. Otherwise, what’s your point?
You should have seen him when he first came up every game!! The dude completely shut down the entire left side of the field, and even made Troy Glaus look like a good defensive 3B..lol
I have never seen a SS make every single play look so effortless. Plays that most SS had to dive for or range out and backhand, Simmons was able to easily glide to them and use his rocket, 90+MPH arm to gun out everyone..
The only errors Simmons ever made were only on balls that NO other SS would even come close to fielding in the first place.
Watching Simmons at defense was just as fun as watching Bonds hit absurd home runs into McCovey Cove, and/or watching Maddux carve up hitters without throwing a single pitch above 90+MPH…
Simmons will likely forever be the only player I truly enjoy watching on defense..Andruw Jones was fun to watch, as was Chipper Jones gobbling up those slow rollers to 3rd, but no one compares to Simmons. His defense was must see TV, and there will likely NEVER be a more complete, better defender!!
“His defense was must see TV, and there will likely NEVER be a more complete, better defender!!”
It still is, hence the wanting to hold onto him.
Though him making Troy Glaus look like a good defensive 3B is truly superhuman considering he played a total of 2 innings of 3B for the Braves and retired 2 years before Simmons rookie year.
Glad I wasn’t the only one thinking Simmons and Glaus probably didn’t share an infield.
How do you figure there’s an overload in the infield? Rendon and Simmons hold down the left side, With La Stella looking pretty godawful in SP 2B is Fletcher’s to lose. Thais and Albert split time at 1st with Rengifo/La Stella coming off the bench. Pretty regular IF sitch.
ontariogro…im in agreeance
Rad! If anyone knows the infield it’s The Penguin.
How does La Stella look godawful? This is just Spring Training, he was capable last year. Besides, Rengifo at 2nd is fine and still has upside. Solid 1B candidates are easy to come by, internal or external (Ward, Thaiss, etc.)
He was capable last year, aside from that catastrophic injury he’s attempting to come back from.
“Besides, Rengifo at 2nd is fine and still has upside. Solid 1B candidates are easy to come by, internal or external (Ward, Thaiss, etc.)”
Right, which is why there is not an “overload” in the infield. What a strange way to agree with me.
rpoar….sorry you are just plain wrong
Great, let’s have a few more years of “stellar defense up the middle” and no pitching. That’s worked well in recent years.
I’m not down on Simmons, just looking realistically at the payroll and the needs of the team. Gotta give somewhere, where else would you chop payroll to be able to afford SPs?
Apart from there being no indication from the Angels that they can’t afford pitching, there’s a 30 million dollar albatross coming off the books post 2021, along with Upton’s 20+ the following year. Teheran and Castro are on 1 year deals, totaling 15.85. You’re treating the Angels like they’re the Rays or something.
Right. Headed for the post season let’s trade a elite SS for pitching. That’s what prospects are for.
You don’t give up good defense at a important position that easily unless you’re getting a #1 or 2 SP.
The Angels aren’t the Pirates. Simmons is a player they can easily afford to extend, and they should.
Let’s be realistic about what it will take to extend him. He’s not taking a 3 year deal at 10M a year. It’s going to take 5+ years at maybe 15-20/year if he bounces back offensively this year ?
He may stay elite for a few more years or longer, but what if he doesn’t?
Funny how everyone has forgotten our pitching situation, there isn’t going to be limitless payroll to sign SPs and we certainly don’t have much coming up in the minors.
Love Simmons, but also have learned not to fall in love with players post 30 years old.
“He’s not taking a 3 year deal at 10M a year. ”
Then it’s a good thing no one proposed that.
“It’s going to take 5+ years at maybe 15-20/year if he bounces back offensively this year”
So literally a few million more per year than the contract he’s currently finishing up, Not seeing the downside.
“Funny how everyone has forgotten our pitching situation, there isn’t going to be limitless payroll to sign SPs and we certainly don’t have much coming up in the minors.”
No one has forgotten anything, they’re just not treating signing pitching and extending Simmons as mutually exclusive, ’cause they aren’t.
You think hes going to net a good return? Yikes
seems to me he is perhaps the best defending ss for halos in my lifetime anyway. mid 70s to now that is. I’ll take him over any other option. he such a high player iq for that position. I say 4 more years. pay the guy.
To everyone saying Andrelton has no chance at the hall, I’d love to make a wager on it. If he produces even 70% of the value he has thus far over another 7 seasons, he’ll be a 70WAR player w literally an hour long defensive highlight reel for young fans and old HOF voters alike to ogle over. I not only believe he’s 100% en route to the Hall, I think he’s far better than Ozzie. Ozzie played in a time when dudes were hitting the ball at him on average 80ish mph. Simmons is defending juiced balls coming at him via freak athletes at 110+mph sometimes. Ozzie played in a far weaker offensive league, so his numbers look better in comparison, but also his god level defense was far easier to muster than it is for Simmons. I’m willing to bet the hardest hits Ozzie saw coming towards him in his career are routine for Simmons today. So not only are Simmons’s defensive metrics on par w Ozzie, I’d say they’re actually far better bc it’s vs beast athletes. Yea I know this stuff is averaged out for specific seasons but most of that isn’t as quantifiable as you’d think
Can he do a backflip though to start inns? Thats why Ozzie is in the Hall
Please consider this video over Simmons’ HOF candidacy:
youtube.com/watch?v=SXvrppeIIes
Shortstops go downhill in their 30’s, yup just like Ozzie and Cal and the Captain did. The elite do not play a long time with diminishing skills and Simmons is certainly “elite”.. Field awareness like his is difficult to find in players. Asking a loser like Eppler to reconize that Fletcher should start at 2b and that the team should resign Simmons is beyond his comprehenion imho. There are those who think that Simmons is easily replaced, you sometimes don’t know what you have until it’s gone applies here.. Simba shouls remain an Angel.
Be a whole lot easier if you didnt have Pujos Rendon Trout Upton signed for more than 21 teams total payroll next year
Agree that Fletcher should be at 2B. Great defensive player. He finds a way to help the team every night – offense, defense, base running… Flys under the radar because he’s not super athletic. But he is a winner.
This SS is a generational talent at SS. yes he hacks at the plate but yes he is becoming a better hitter. If you hear what baseball theologians say about him perhaps your own opinion would be higher? I have seen what he can do and in my mind he will have a case for hof
The gamble is his legs. If a team thinks he can sustain the level of range Simmons has, offer that 5 year deal. The legs go first.
The other option is if you are a team with a can’t-miss SS in A or AA, you sign Simmons and have him play SS until he cannot reach balls he once could. Then slide him to 3B a-la Ripken. Simmons has the glove and arm to easily handle that position. But, he’s probably the best defensive SS I’ve ever seen, even better than Ozzie.
5/100