Major League Baseball is preparing yet another counter-offer to the Players Association after the MLBPA proposed an 89-game season with prorated salaries yesterday, commissioner Rob Manfred said minutes ago in an appearance on MLB Network (hat tip: Bill Shaikin of the L.A. Times, on Twitter). More encouragingly, Manfred emphatically stated: “We’re going to play baseball in 2020 — 100 percent.” The commissioner’s preference remains for a negotiated agreement between the league and union, but Manfred does have the ability to implement a shorter season (at fully prorated salaries) under the standing March agreement.
The details of the forthcoming proposal will be telling. Manfred acknowledged that it’ll be in the “players’ direction” but also suggested that he hopes the union will back down from its insistence on prorated pay. That has been the crux of the players’ entire argument to this point, and it has not seemed likely at all that they’ll be swayed. If anything, recent brazen comments from Cardinals owner Bill DeWitt Jr., Cubs owner Tom Ricketts and D-backs owner Ken Kendrick about the lack of profitability in baseball and the need for revenue sharing have only caused the players to further dig in. Many big leaguers — Justin Turner, Jameson Taillon, Randal Grichuk among them — met DeWitt’s comment that the baseball industry “isn’t very profitable, to be honest,” with bewilderment and disbelief.
USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reported earlier today, citing three MLB executives, that a counter-proposal was indeed in the works. Yesterday’s union proposal did contain some concessions that should appeal to ownership, but the MLBPA has steadfastly insisted that the prorated salaries which they feel were agreed upon back in March remain in place. That and the 89-game length of the proposal remain too costly in the eyes of ownership.
Nightengale suggests that Manfred will implement a season length of around 50 games if an agreement isn’t in place by next week. Of course, we’ve seen both sides negotiate through the media with a series of strategically leaked bluffs and half-truths, so it’s anyone’s guess whether ownership actually plans to wield that hammer or if this, paired with Manfred’s strong comments, is yet another leverage play. Remember, after all, that the league sent a counter-proposal to the MLBPA on Monday — just days after putting out the message that no counter was coming.
Regardless, it’s true that the clock is ticking for some kind of decision to be made. Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich of The Athletic wrote this morning that the time for “best and final” offers from both parties is nigh. Separately, Rosenthal suggests that the league should propose a 72-game season with prorated salaries and several of the new elements put forth by the union yesterday (e.g. two years of expanded 16-team playoffs, increased instances of players being mic’d up during broadcasts, an offseason All-Star Game/Home Run Derby this winter, etc.). To this point, neither side has made a proposal that has even moved the needle for the other.
Hopefully we do and have a season.
Yeah sure Robby…..
Yeah the “checks in the mail “
The average man cant afford to food on the table and these millionaires are crying about money. Manfred has ruined baseball. BOYCOTT BASEBALL!
Hey Stewart – You’re right, you should boycott baseball.
lol
Oh stop.
I’m pretty sure the average man absolutely can afford food, unless you’re suggesting the average man is homeless.
I think he’s suggesting the average man eats like a pig.
Stewart- No hate for the Billionaire owners who are more concerned about money than providing entertainment from their industry that’s already falling to a distant third place in US behind the NFL and NBA?
Yeah… let’s listen to this genius.
Wake me up, when September ends.
Don’t you mean December? At this point , that’s when the seasons ending.
It’s a Green Day song, and the regular season will still end near the middle or end of September. Playoffs expanded. If they play, it will be a 52 game schedule. They will still want the WS to end no later than the first week of November.
it’s gonna be at least half a season.
If they start july 1st. And end sept 30 that’s 91 days. So your right not half a season. If they and get 76-78 games in this roughly 13 days off. I just counted the cubs schedule of what a normal season would be like. They have 25 days off in 6 months.
This season. Postponed games will not be made up.
If it is a 50 game season you can stick it in your ear Manfred
Well yeah. I’m going to play Baseball Stars for NES.
good call
You should play Super Baseball 2020 on SNES lol.. So funny that back when I was a kid the concept of robots playing in 2020 existed.. maybe it will happen if the players don’t play?
Oh wow I remember that one. Also there was ROBOT WARS for NES which was a ridiculous baseball / fighting game hybrid. Ahh, looks like I have plans this weekend now!
*Base Wars
Baseball Stars = Best baseball video game of all-time!
I agree! Anyone under 35 would look at it and laugh. But man if it wasn’t the most pioneering sports game of its time. Before Baseball Stars concepts such as season simulation, statistical accrual, trades, create a player, etc were all a dream. And then came along a game that had ALL of these amazing new concepts! Sure it was cartoony and silly but it really helped mold my mind when it came to understanding roster compilation, payroll, etc
Agreed. Baseball stars was awesome. Really an innovative concept at the time. The one thing that bothered me about it was when you turned it off you had to like hold the reset button, and hit the power. It worked but many times everything would get wiped out.
Little League Baseball for NES is awesome.
I’m old and played all those but I will take MVP baseball 2005 over all of them. If they just fixed the problem where drafted pitchers never get high enough stamina it would have been almost perfect. The music soundtrack to 2004 was better though.
I loved MVP Baseball 2005, won over 100 world series titles, but also lost over 20, I think, most, but not all were with the Yankees. Best record was 159-3, but that was largely because my lineup AND my bench was entirely filled with the cheat codes that are little men with bats so big that they are literally the size of a Caveman Club, pitching was good, too.
I played that and loved it.
1A. Baseball Stars 1B. R.B.I. 1C. Ken Griffey Jr. Baseball(the good one)
I still get the Baseball Stars and RBI jingles stuck in my head every once in a while….and it doesn’t bother me one bit! LOL
Had to Google it because I was only 6 when it came out. Yes that was my shakaka
I’d rather watch the lovely ladies than current mlb players any day of the week.
At that, if mlb labor relations tank I’d be for a wwii redux, scabs should be female ball players. Just leave rosie O’Donnell out.
Lol
I just remember the “____ was fired” screen with the guy walking off into a lonely sunset carrying a carpetbagger stick whilst being accompanied by a stray dog
I can still hear the music from that cut scene. I also remember once you starting making stacks of cash you could lure the elite FAs, one of whom was a dude chomping a cigar in his avatar. Love the values these games instilled in us.
not playing Baseball Simulator 1.000? C’mon Monty, don’t you want the cannonball pitch, earthquake bunt, and super outfielder vertical jump?
I didn’t know it until now but heck yeah I am ready for all of those things!
it had more comprehensive team building capabilities, minus the front office aspect of Baseball Stars. The graphics weren’t nearly as good, more like RBI or MLB, but the special cartoony aspects of it were laughingly ridiculous.
This comment gets a 15/15 on Prestige
I am not going to lie, I did spend my fair share of time during this pandemic playing Baseball Simulator 1.000 on a NES emulator.
Good call- better than The Show ’19. Even when it’s free, still a rotten pile of junk
Any of you guys play the new RBI games? Just wondering if any good.
MLB: The Show on PS4 maybe…
Nooooo no way. Even free this is a stinky game.
….but it’s still better than no baseball ='(
Wanna play online sometime?
I’m ready for baseball.
BONESAW IS READY
RIP Randy
Get out of here Steve. Go work on your professionalism, and chat room etiquette. Your love for the game has disappeared a long time ago, let someone who actually enjoys the game cover it.
Im ready for anything other than nonsense news and netflix reruns.
Unfortunately got plenty of Americans right now, nonsense news and Netflix is their entire life and they’re more than content with that.
For*
I haven’t watched Netflix since March.
Netflix reruns, now there’s a concept I had never considered.
What I fear is that the owners will insist on revenue sharing/salary cap in the next CBA and will lock out the players for as long as it takes, even if that means no baseball in 2022 or 2023. They have already laid the groundwork for that with the owner comments this week about how baseball is not profitable.
I can’t see that happening. Losing an entire season over that disagreement would be unforgivable in a lot of fans’ minds I think. This season is unique because of COVID so I think there’s at least a little more understanding from fans.
It’s the opposite in my opinion. It’s very offputting that a season would be cancelled over money during a pandemic that made millions lose their jobs or worse. They should’ve bunkered in and came up with a solution weeks ago. Even with everything that’s gone on, players should be at or nearing return to spring training activities to prepare for the season. Instead we’re in a useless back-and-forth of millionaires and billionaires arguing over billions in public.
A lockout over an expired CBA has happened before in almost every sport and will likely happen again. It’s the nature of labor negotiations.
I don’t blame MLB for not being able to go to a game this summer. I do blame them for being in the middle of June with no agreement in sight.
@Brandon
“I don’t blame MLB for not being able to go to a game this summer. I do blame them for being in the middle of June with no agreement in sight.”
Probably the most cogent sentence I’ve read below the lines…
13 – “no baseball in 2022 or 2023”
So after all of the negotiations and lost revenues in 2020 over only half a season being lost, you think the owners are posturing to shut down baseball for up to three years? How did you arrive at that conclusion?
He’s not posturing anything about baseball being shut down for three years.
The current CBA ends in December 2021, and that’s when they negotiate the next CBA. That’s when the strike would begin if that were to happen.
They do that there be nothing to open back up. They almost killed the sport in ‘95 and that wasn’t anywhere near 2 seasons.
MLB better take a good look in the mirror. I mean a GOOD look in the mirror. This “sport” is losing fans big time the past few years.. Even with NO sports in real action their first round draft was not picked up by any major networks. That should say something. Playing a 50 game season is like a 5-6 game NFL season. Fans are NOT going to buy it and if there is to be a strike for 2021 and or 2022 { or both you may as well take your bat and ball and head for home.
I consider myself a hardcore baseball fan but right now I am totally disgusted with the state of the sport nd if it is a 50 game season I WON’T BE WATCHING ! I MIGHT see you in 2024 if the Korean league doesn’t do it for me.
Gosh I hope they do, and I hope the players realize that a more strict salary structure will benefit them, too. We have tanking, major competitive imbalance, a top heavy league, The minor leagues are cratering. Quality veteran players can’t find a job. The huge contracts are creating a ripple of other issues. Service time stunts and the arbitration system are horrible. The players think they are responsible to future generations of players, but they are damaging current AND future players with the stances they take. I think everyone benefits with a salary cap and a more competitive league, including current and future players.
MLB could learn from the NHL
I just hope their counter to the players’ counter is reasonable. The 48 game season proposal was a joke. Plus with states lifting restrictions they can easily let some fans attend. Even 25% capacity would be better than nothing.
Been saying all along they will have rich people in some of those luxury boxes. Guaranteed.
Probably loopholes like guests of the owner or GM. Rich people don’t live by the same rules as we do.
The guys like Ricketts n Reinsdorf will be fine with 25% capacity, as long as he can get 4 times the price, for a ticket.
Ricketts is cheap af. Cant spew out more than 15mil this past winter. The marlins spent more than that greedy basterd
mic’d up players and home run derbys, seriously? Just get on the field and play!
* Base Wars
Sorry this was meant for a reply above. I am dumb.
Manfred just needs to use his full authority and release a 54 game season with full per game salaries. A percentage of pro-rated salaries will again be nixed by the PA. Don’t bother. If the players strike, the players strike.
I agree with you that is what will happen. 54 games…then playoffs.
Everyday someone comes out and says that they’re positive we’ll have MLB games this year. Running out of time people!
54 games. 16 teams make the playoffs. Let’s go.
I was just writing the same thing.
TBH the dumbest part of this is being scared of playing games in December, when its barely cold to begin with, and also it means nothing to the California or Florida or general Southern part of the country teams.
Just make game 7 of the WS on December 24. Best case scenario is Christmas the next day.
Take a shorter offseason, then start mid-April 2021. Easy.
I just got pictures back from my daughter’s January 4th birthday. I was in shorts and a short sleeve polo. I’m in Houston. Weather is fine here, except the occasional ice storm.
It has more to do with the flu season flaring back up than playing December 24th games in a dome.
And competing with football for tv contract for playoffs
Thing about this argument is football only plays on the weekends and not the other 5 days.
It’s more about competing for the networks dollars with the other sports going on after October.
It’s not as much about weather as it is competing with the other professional sports. Especially come playoff time. Doesn’t make it right, but the owners do not want to compete for viewers, especially during their biggest money making season of the year.
No.
Play one third of a season…. Fifty four games.
Every MLB fan with half a brain: Manfred needs to quit his job.
I have a quarter of a brain in my best day and even I can see this.
That’s not going to help anything…
Plus it’s not Manfried’s fault that Tony Clark is a door mat of a players rep- unilateral decision making for so many huge, game-redefining choices? Nah, Tony Clark did an okay job, but the players need a heck of a lot better than “okay” for there to be any real progress.
The players have been prepared to die on the hill in their stand against implementing a salary cap, but where has it gotten them?
They now have a slotting bonus system for all amateur draftees, hard caps on international signing bonuses, a minimum salary that has not nearly kept up with revenue growth, little movement in free agent or arbitration eligibility thresholds, and they have what in effect is a soft salary cap anyway.
Five teams had payrolls above the tax threshold when the current CBA was signed. All five of those teams, including the Dodgers and Yankees, slashed payroll to get under the threshold to reset the penalties. Teams won’t pay the draft pick penalties for blowing past the tax threshold.
Now, the players appear ready to die on the hill of prorated salaries. What could they get in exchange if they moved off that stance? A minimum wage increase that would benefit 60% of their members? A salary floor or agreement to not slash payrolls this winter? We may never know.
I loved Tony Clark as a Tiger, but man he has been getting his arse kicked by Manfred in CBA talks.
@bruce, I think that’s exactly what’s going to happen if the PA doesn’t budge at all on the prorated salaries. A fair compromise, if I were in charge, would be roughly 70 games +/- and 75% of prorated salaries with 3 year deferrals on the remaining 25% (with prime interest rates included, not the ridiculous 6% proposed by the PA). Add as many other incentives to add revenue as possible for the owners (mic’d players during games, derbies, AS games…whatever). All three sides want to play (owners, players, fans) but it’s clear the owners won’t budge much. If I were a player, I’d rather play, get some of my salary and try to move on in advance of the CBA negotiations they are right around the corner. Come on boys, make it happen!!
If 2019 was a 48 game season with 16 playoff teams this would be the post season. I assume the division winners and top wild card team get a bye and the other 4 in each league play a best of 3 series.
AL Bye: Yankees, Twins, Astros, Rays
Best of 3 AL: Oakland/Cleveland, Texas/Boston
NL Bye: Phillies, Cubs, Dodgers, Brewers
Best of 3: St Louis/Pittsburgh, Arizona/Atlanta
Washington doesn’t even makes the post season
I don’t want a 48 game season
There would be no bye with 16 postseason teams. 16/2=8. 8/2=4. 4/2=2. 2/2=1.
Having to rehire all the minor leaguers they cut to play a season without pros will be hysterical.
The minor leaguers are pros
Not sure why they keep volleying through the media. Why can’t they meet (virtually) face-to-face & hammer out an agreement. Should have done this a month ago & we’d be watching games by now.
I also foresee a time when fans can attend games – maybe starting Sept? This could help with [asserted] operating losses. I normally can see the owner’s perspective, but their current hand is being overplayed.
Did I read that correctly? They actually will consider a 50-game season! Well I guess if the Pirates get hot early they can win the central and in to the playoffs. The likelihood of a Royals-Pirates world series isn’t far-fetched
The way I read it, Manfred has the authority to order a 50 game season per the agreement in March. A season that short would feel like an extended Spring Training for 2021. But, it’s still baseball so let’s play ball.
Fans should boycott all things MLB if Manfred only schedules something like 48 to 54 regular season games. It will be insane to play less than 81 regular season games.!
Chief – How does a 50 game season effect your life to the point that you suggest all fans should boycott baseball? If they have a 50 game season, I’m gonna enjoy some baseball and thank God that we have that.
prov356
Something like 48 to 54 regular season games is going to make a lot of people not even take the playoffs seriously. We’re already seeing people talk about the Pirates and Royals going to the World Series this year. No offense intended toward those teams fan-bases, but what a joke it would be if a bad team makes it to the World Series because they just got hot during a ridiculously short season!
Would the NFL consider having a 2 game regular season? What would be the point?
Chief – I get all that – 50 games, 81 games, whatever. It’s still baseball. But a boycott? Give the playoffs whatever credibility you want based on the number of games in the regular season. I probably won’t put much value on the WS winner this season. But, again, it’s still baseball, which is better than no baseball.
Chief, a 80 game regular season is no more legitimate than a 50 game regular season. Neither one amounts to anything compared to a regular season.
Prov356
Well, part of the reason I say that fans should boycott is that the greedy owners are trying to have a mockery of a regular season where they don’t have to pay the players much of what their full salaries would normally be, and yet have the owners make all of their profits from the playoffs.
If they get away with that, what’s to stop them from deciding that for now on every regular season will only be 50 games?
Chief – How would the owners benefit from a 50 game season forever? Respectfully, your argument makes no sense. And I still don’t know how any number of games effects your life to the point that you would boycott baseball. Just watch whatever baseball we get this year and enjoy it. It’s entertainment. Keep it in perspective.
prov356
Right now owners are claiming that they don’t make much money from regular season games, that most of their profits come from the playoffs. I don’t really believe that they don’t make much from the regular season, but they claim that.
If they honestly feel that they don’t make very much money from the regular season, then they would probably be happy to cut the regular season down to 50 or 60 games, pay the players less money in the process, and turn their profits from the playoffs airing on TV.
It might take a number of years for them to be able to lower player salaries because right now there are players with long term contracts. But if they started planning it now, in 10 to 12 years they could start giving the players a lot less money based on them playing short regular seasons.
The greedy owners will manipulate things in their favor in any way that they can. We can only guess at what they feel is in their best interests.
The fans need to do their best to somehow keep the owners in check. About the only way for us to do that is by things like boycotts and similar actions.
Chief your solid, right on. I mean how many times have we seen a team in first place after 50-60 games in a normal season then end up after 100 games out of contention. I think me and you get because we know that what makes baseball is 162 game season. A bunch of the fans here are asleep right now thinking to ok a 50 game season.
100% We NEED some baseball. It doesn’t matter if it’s a 40 game season… just get out there and play. America needs its pass time back it’s not just about money you a**h*les !!
Yeah, I don’t give a crap if it’s 40 games or something like that, because while I’m normally not desperate for things, I’m desperate for a 2020 MLB season, because my favorite NFL team is going to be total ass again (Giants) and no Yankees baseball would make that hurt even more.
Cleatus is right. Most of us have been hibernating at home, some able to work and others not. We need some kind of escape – baseball. Go play. 54 games, 81 games, whatever. Let’s go.
From what I gather, the March agreement was that the players would get prorated salaries for games played. It also gave the Commissioner the power to set the number of games. Here’s the murky area-does the Commissioner have the right to reduce the number of games for health reasons or for financial reasons. Since management has proposed 82 and 76 games schedules, they must feel that those amount of games can be played. If Manfred reduces the amount of games solely for the purpose of reducing salary would that be considered collusion? That would probably be up to the courts to decide. The owners could claim financial distress but that creates another dilemma-prove it. Would management be willing to open their books? To me the big question is-what were both sides thinking in March? Should have been more specific on both ends
The clause is that the commissioner can propose a schedule for “as many games as possible” with a number of factors to be considered. The fact that they’ve already proposed 76 and 82 games pretty much cuts off any argument that 50 games is “as many as possible”.
If the owners implement a schedule unilaterally, the players would almost surely file a grievance. If the reason is economic feasibility, an arbitrator would probably make them open their books to prove their claim. They’d probably argue some other factors are at play, but they’d have an uphill fight with all that has taken place. It’s pretty clearly about money.
Collusion is something completely different. That’s when teams make an unspoken agreement to not sign players, or to limit their salaries, thwarting a free market for free agents, for example.
Disagree Patrick.
Problem with your argument is that those 76 and 82 game proposals is that there were conditions attached.
Biggest one is they anticipated a consistent ‘season’ operating cost as regards total payroll.
A 50 game at full salary IS consistent with say a 75 game salary at 66% for example. Then adjusting for differences in covid related protection costs and stadium costs for running more or less games and wrapping that into total production costs per game played, it is very consistent to vary game number along with compensation.
Remember, calendar days is probably the smallest consideration here.
I’m sure that’s pretty close to what the owners would argue should a grievance be filed. But the more they focus on economics and taking a loss for playing more games, the more likely that an arbitrator rules that they have to provide documentation. Then they argue over what documents have to be provided.
Players would probably want to focus on the revenue side of the equation, including their ownership in RSN’s, revenues taken in by MLBAM, and things that have been off limits. They really would just rather not go there, even if they win the grievance. The optics are just bad for the brand.
Optics are already shot for both sides. There’s no high road left for anyone – you give in you look terrible for going this long. You stick to your guns and everybody is already mad.
It’s not a question of losing more money by playing more games. You have to start by accepting the premise that owners have been more or less consistent with the projected expenses they say are acceptable…. and yes, they have been. Doesn’t matter if you believe the figure for now, ask if it’s been consistent.
Then, you don’t need to see all revenue sources. You just need to see how much money is being lost – which is quantifiable by publicly released and available info. We know 2019 attendance, and, we know average ticket prices. We also know from numerous sources about where fan spending on game day was.
Gates and concessions from 2019 roughly equate to 2020 player payroll excluding the government taxes. We also know federal employer portion of payroll taxes (on top of contract values/cots figures) is 9.15%. There’s state and in some cases local taxes on top of that as well.
You can’t cast “economically feasible” as a break-even no profit scenario giving max revenue towards players. A dispute will focus on asking owners to show what they lose this year, which losing over 4 billion in gameday revenue is enough to move the needle. Even saving 50% off player salary (which is a 4.5 billion expense with just federal taxes and not state/local ones) leaves a 2 billion loss. Thats best-case if tv rights deals don’t take a hit due to reduced games, and, there is zero guarantee a playoff happens or finishes.
You don’t need to account for every dime coming in, just what you LOSE to say economics have deteriorated and both sides need to make adjustments to cover that loss.
In the march agreement MLBPA traded economic feasibility to the owners for a salary advance and service time concession beyond what the CBA provided. The “prorated” salary provision was already part of the CBA so it wasn’t a concession, just a codification.
I didn’t intend to get into a debate about labor practices, but I think this is a factor underlying these negotiations that gets little play in the media and is important to both sides.
You’ve done a nice job of outlining a case that the owners could present to an arbitrator once they get to a hearing. But if the reason that the owners give for scheduling only 50 games (I think they’d schedule more) is that it’s not economically feasible to schedule more games, the arbitrator would very likely order MLB to provide documentation to back up their case. The discovery ordered is normally very broad.
The fair labor standards act, Section 8(a)(5) compels employers to produce such relevant bargaining information, and this takes place before any hearing on whether the claim is justified. Unions have been known to use bargaining tactics just to get to this point, to extract information from companies.
I am not saying that the players would prevail on a grievance- although they might, depending on how deep into the owners’ finances they can dig. To avoid that, they would need to state other grounds for shortening the schedule, such as those listed in the agreement, and do so in light of the offers that have already been made.
My point is that the owners do not want to take the chance that a discovery motion would be granted. The players so far have not blinked when threatened with a short season.
FWIW- IF IT GETS to that point,
The numbers that we have for gate receipts, concessions, and some TV contracts, especially with the RSN’s, are estimates mainly from Forbes. I suspect they are pretty accurate, but we don’t know for sure. What we certainly do not know is what revenue is generated for owners of the RSN’s, whether an arbitration would include revenue from MLBAM, other ownership interests that are leveraged by MLB clubs, etc.
Forbes shows $5.3 billion in TV revenue, just under $800M of which is post season related, and $1.1 billion in sponsorships. I would accept your representation that gate receipts and stadium related revenues are about equal to payroll expenses for major league players.
We don’t know what portion of those TV revenues come in if, say the season is cut at 81 games, or 50 games. If it’s prorated (which it’s not likely) there is more revenue per game than player salaries. There is plenty to discover. They won’t get to make the argument ahead of a discovery motion.
Also FWIW- Social security tax is capped at $8240 per employee. In California, where I suspect we pay the highest payroll taxes, there are four state taxes, all capped at $1670. So that’s about $10K per player. The Federal unemployment tax (FUTA) is 0.6% and is not capped. Not an insignificant number, but not huge in this equation.
Awe man, I’d rather there be no season and instead we keep the current posture of the players sharing their current political and social views. Who needs game time action when you can get Matt Kemp’s take on police immunity, that’s great stuff.
MLB teams refuse to share their books in order to prove their need for revenue sharing. It’s stupid. I’d never accepted another deal from MLB unless they prove to me why teams like the Dodgers with their 250 million per year tv deal cannot afford payroll.
Rosenthal’s proposal is interesting.
72 games, full prorated salary. That works out to about $1.8 billion, which is roughly 400 million more than their last offer and 400 million less than the players’ last offer.
I have a feeling they won’t offer full prorated salaries. The players should seriously consider what they might get if they moved off that stance. If they could get a commitment that payrolls would not be slashed this winter, or an increase in the minimum wage, those would be significant to most of their members.
I guess I’m a bit more optimistic than many about having baseball this season and even about the two sides negotiating a deal.
There will be baseball because, at a minimum, MLB won’t throw out the baby with the bath water and they’ll take the post season revenue plus whatever they can get from the regular season.
They will probably negotiate a deal because both sides, but particularly the owners, stand to benefit for the reasons that Ken articulates, but also for the financial gains of the extra post season revenue, and the abyss of a grievance and the damage that a bastardized short season and that litigious process will do to the brand..
Plus, I don’t think that MLB overall will lose as much as they want us to believe by playing more games, when all revenue streams are factored in.
Let there be baseball!
I agree with most everything you wrote but the fly in the ointment is their are small market team owners with no playoff chances that are going to lose money no matter what. Wouldn’t surprise at all if that not playoff bound block are the ones pushing the hardball button.
Part of the irony in all this is that small market teams fare relatively better because they rely much less on attendance than the big market teams, and their local TV deals aren’t typically worth nearly as much money, while the bigger revenue streams for them such as national TV revenues which are evenly split will remain fairly steady. They should have a relatively easier time meeting their smaller payrolls.
One of the less talked about provisions of the March agreement is that the owners can submit a new revenue sharing proposal, and it just might be less generous to the small market clubs if the Yankees, Dodgers, and Cubs are taking the biggest losses this season.
I wrote an article about the Tigers’ payroll under the first two proposals by owners and players. They’re one team that would be turning a profit under either proposal.
https://www.blessyouboys.com/2020/5/28/21273605/mlb-salary-proposal-pay-cuts-mlbpa-shortened-season
For all of my followers out there: I know you’ve all been waiting with bated breath knowing that today 6/10 is the date I set as my cutoff date for cable and, hence baseball. I am a weak man, and simply cannot bring myself to cut ties with the likes of Andy Griffith, Looney Tunes, and Deadliest Catch as collateral damage casualties to my frustration with our national pastime. Simply watching the draft this evening, and digesting our fair commissioner’s kind, loving words has given me hope that we’ll get to see our boys of summer in 2020. In the meantime, I can still be found on my onlyfans page, offering up what you sporty hunks DEMAND. Peace in the middle east!!
Microphones on players? How does that figure in?
Not asking for a friend. I am genuinely curious about how something so completely unrelated to the situation at hand got wrapped up in all of this.
How did funding for the arts get included in payroll stimulus money for COVID-19?
🙂
Will microphones on the umps be better … can’t wait for those fights to be heard uninterrupted bliss…. especially if they can be hidden and unknown to the umps n managers. I’d pay more for that then on the players for a bunch of snippets that they know when they are being listened too!
I don’t need to hear what anyone on the field is saying. The point of my question being, it seems ownership is pulling into these negotiations things that have been on their wishlist for years and that have nothing whatsoever to do with playing the game of baseball this year or any other year. Maybe the two sides would come to an agreement more quickly if this kind of junk wasn’t also on the agenda.
I suspect this comes via the media who are looking at limited access because of the social distancing procedures.
Possibly but I doubt it. From the sound of this MLB wants players mic’ed on the field like they’ve done in some playoff games. They probably feel this novelty provides some added entertainment value to games played in empty stadiums.
I am certainly not defending Manfred in any way shape form or fashion, but what has he done, or not done, to acquire the wrath of so many. Other than the adjudication of the sign stealing scandal, I really don’t know very much at all about him. I just enjoy watching baseball, and have been for 60+ years. Really haven’t paid much attention to the “ rulings”of any of the commissioners very much other than Bowie Kuhn initiating World Series games being played at night, and Giamatti and the Rose ban.
When Manfred opens his mouth the voices of the owners come out. If they wanted a strong commissioner then they would have one.
This is beginning to resemble Napoleon’s Grande Armee’s return through the Russian Winter after the battle of Borodino. Very long, plenty of suffering, and not an optimal result.
If you want to disregard stats that are based on an average (batting average, ERA, K/9, etc.) then go ahead since the season will be much shorter but every team will be playing will be playing under the same format so the champion will be legit. Winning a title isn’t about being better than previous champions. It’s about being the best that particular year.
50 games a season does not make. Total BS.
Nfl has done pretty good with just 12 – 16 over the years ….. so don’t complain about the numbers in this national emergency season! If 50 – 70 is all we get I can live with it, might not like it but I can live with it.
Also I’m a sox fan and I don’t give a dang about the other teams and don’t watch them unless they are playing against the sox. I watch the other division rivals only for how the standings are going in that division. I buy team merchandise for the whole family plus playoff and Ws paraphernalia. The playoffs for us are when the sox get in we watch every game they play other games which are who they might play next. that’s about it!
That is how most fans are so the owners have to work around that for their ideas about fans in profiit-loss management. The players better figure that out to present their side too!
Manfred and Clark need to just sit in a room together and stay there until they get an agreement. Give them lots to drink and no bathroom privileges until there is an agreement. We’d have an agreement in a few hours at best.
If only if the players complaining about a reduced salary would comply so there could actually be a season.
Hasn’t Manfred made it clear that the Owners won’t play more than 48 (+/-) games at full prorated salaries?
Hasn’t the MLBPA made it clear that the players will not take one dollar less than full prorated salaries?
Isn’t everyone worried at least a little about Covid returning in the Fall?
Isn’t Baseball played by the Boys of Summer: season to begin by June 20th?
Isn’t October for the Post Season?
The agreement is all there, can’t the Baseball World just take YES for an Answer?
That 48 game thing is a silly negotiating tactic. If they cut down the games to under 90 or so, they’re losing TV money. So they don’t want that.
What they want is a longer post season…because they don’t have to pay the players for the post season. They probably want that for next year, too. They’re also hoping for a salary cut, but that’s just a hope.
The compromise will be 90 games at full salaries, and a significantly extended post season afterwards where the players make almost no money this year (normally, they get half the ticket revenues)..
At least Manfred can get one thing right.
what, zipping his fly? Mr. “piece of metal”? I’ve got more respect for things my dog has done on the carpet.
The smart move would be to do a 50% guaranteed for all players, 100% for those making under $5 mil a year (before pro-rating) and have the other 50% put into a trust that gets paid if the post-season is completed (or a portion if only part of it is).. The players will counter but the pressure will be on to go half way with a 75% locked in then and 25% delayed. That is the path to a solution I think. Games somewhere between 70 and 90. Expanded playoffs (yuck) for at least 2 years and probably a lot longer. I like the post-season all-star idea. No fear of a pitcher getting hurt, or at least a lot less worry. Lots of domes/southern warm weather places to put it in.
@jnorthey
Sorry mate but that is NOT the smart move. The MLBPA is a union. They are not going to divide their membership between the haves and the have nots.
And I don’t know why anyone gives a flying **** about the all star game and/or the home run derby. They’re both painful pale imitations of the game….
Because the Derby and the All-Star game are revenue generators.
Look, it’s nice that you are a fan of baseball living in country that is a shadow of it’s former self but if you cannot fathom why there is a care for superstars coming together for a couple days then I suggest you find a new hobby. Brushing teeth or changing teabags from earl grey to chai would be a good start. Or picking a baseball team that cares would also be nice.
Uh, what the heck? This isn’t the time for an American to complain about any other nation as yours is in total chaos thanks to a bizarro choice for president.
Now as to the ASG and home run derby I do agree to some degree with both of you – it is silly but it also generates revenue. which is what the owners and player love.
My point is to find a middle ground – I expect the owners to push for a divide but the players will push for keeping all their payroll. A mix of the proposals will be needed in the end.
JNorthey, I am Canadian. Thank you for playing. I’m sure we’ll cross paths on a Blue Jays story where you’ll drink the Rogers koolaid and I’ll take the opposite position. The bizarro Prime Minister we have is more than enough for us to handle.
Players being mic’d up is the worst. Players are supposed to be focused on what they’re doing not giving a commentary to a TV network about what’s going on.
Mic’d up is silly, but it sells TV networks and gets some viewers it seems thus they keep trying to do it. I say what the heck, who cares? Up to the TV networks to use it appropriately and if a player doesn’t want to be heard just use lots of 4 letter words as American TV is petrified of those.
Randal Grichuk should have responded to the question about DeWitt by saying this word for word:
“I signed an extension I didn’t deserve. I’m one of the last guys to comment on Mr. DeWitt.”
Alternatively DeWitt could admit that baseball isn’t that profitable because idiots like him sign off on extensions for the likes of Randal Grichuk.
So – Wild Bill – how often have you rejected a pay rise before heading off to the puritanical church “St Teresa of the closed vagina/chequebook” (delete as applicable)?
LondonUK – What I reject is this player’s absurd outlook on an owner’s take on a situation, right or wrong. When I have been given a raise I say thank you, sign the paper, and work my butt off for the next one. I do not get caught up in ownership or what they are saying to the press. Grichuk signed an undeserved extension, underperformed right on cue.
We all can’t be the Oakland A’s, signing nobody. DeWitt and others have made bonehead extensions and Grichuk was signed by Toronto, not St Louis. At the very least the players, expecially Grichuk, could be more appreciative for stealing fan money.
Except it isn’t the fans money – unless you fall for the old theory that if players would play for free then tickets would be $0 or close to it. Owners charge what the market will take – if they can sell $1,000,000 worth of tickets then they will charge that much for them, if they think they can get $10 million they will up tickets prices 10 times to get there, if they think they can get just $100k then they will cut prices to 10% of the old level. Player salaries only factor into the profitability and if the owner wants to hold the team long term. Guys like Grichuk who get big deals are signed due to a GM who thought he’d be better than he has been – sometimes they are right (Evan Longoria) sometimes wrong (Grichuk so far). That is what you do when you own a team – take risks that could save you millions but sometimes costs you millions.
The old rule – the bigger the risk, the bigger the reward. Owners right now are trying to reduce their cost for getting caught with COVID0-19 this year. I fully expect something to be written into the next collective agreement for a ‘just in case of nightmare here is what happens’.
I see you’ve been educated by the failed Canadian system, so I’ll teach you something.
If zero fans support baseball in any capacity, the league is over. A business cannot be maintained if you have zero paying customers. If you need to ask as a question, as this could be confusing to you, feel free.
And then you proved my point about Grichuk. He has no right to complain.
I get the expanded playoffs for this year although I’m not a fan. But next year things should go back to normal. I have no interest in watching bad teams in the post season, which will happen with half of baseball getting in. Manfred and Clark are bad for the sport.
how can you call 50 games a season? what a joke. might as well wait until next year!
48 games ain’t a season!
I’m sure Manfred really believes there will be baseball in 2020, with MLB’s my way or the highway attitude toward negotiations. Seems they’re stalling now until 2020 has to be officially canceled.
According to the mlb TV app baseball starts on the 13th of June which is Saturday