TODAY: The Mets have officially announced Walker’s deal. Noah Syndergaard has been placed on the 60-day injured list to open up a roster space for Walker.
FEB. 19, 8:14am: It’s a two-year, $20MM deal with a player option for a third season, Joel Sherman of the New York Post reports (Twitter links). The deal, which is still pending a physical, will pay Walker $10MM in 2021 and $7MM in 2022. The player option is at a base of $6MM and can rise to $8.5MM via escalator clauses based on Walker’s performance. There’s a $3MM buyout on the option, should Walker decline, making for a total of $20MM in guarantees.
7:04am: The Mets and free-agent right-hander Taijuan Walker have agreed to terms on a contract, tweets SNY’s Andy Martino. The Excel Sports client will step into the rotation alongside Jacob deGrom, Carlos Carrasco, Marcus Stroman and David Peterson.
Heading into his age-28 season, Walker was the youngest established starter available in free agency. The former top prospect made his big league debut with the Mariners just two weeks after his 20th birthday back in 2013 and solidified his place in the Seattle rotation in 2015 at 22 years of age. The M’s traded Walker to the D-backs in a high-profile 2016 deal also including Ketel Marte, Jean Segura and Mitch Haniger, and he went on to have his best season in 2017: 157 1/3 innings of 3.49 ERA ball.
Walker went down with a torn ulnar collateral ligament in 2018, however, and the resulting Tommy John surgery wiped out nearly his entire season. He was on the comeback trail in 2019, but those efforts were derailed by a strained shoulder capsule that limited him to one inning. After pitching a combined 14 innings in 2018-19, Walker was non-tendered by the D-backs and returned to the Mariners on a low-cost, one-year deal in free agency.
The signing worked out well for the Mariners, who parlayed five solid starts from Walker into a deadline trade with the Blue Jays that netted outfield prospect Alberto Rodriguez (currently Seattle’s No. 24 prospect at Baseball America). Walker made six starts with the Blue Jays and pitched to a pristine 1.37 ERA with a 25-to-11 K/BB ratio over the life of 26 1/3 innings.
Overall, Walker’s 2.70 earned run average in 53 1/3 innings last year looked quite sound. However, despite that impressive mark, his age and his former top prospect pedigree, Walker appears to have had a difficult time finding a club willing to meet his asking price this winter. There’s likely some good reason for that, as once looking past the ERA, the numbers aren’t nearly as appealing.
On his way to that 2.70 ERA, Walker benefited from a .243 average on balls in play and a slightly elevated 78.5 percent strand rate. His 22.2 percent strikeout rate was below the league average, as was his 39.1 percent ground-ball rate. The righty’s 93.5 mph average heater was down from its 95.1 mph peak, and his swinging-strike rate was among the lowest in the league (13th percentile, per Statcast). Fielding-independent marks like SIERA (4.60) and Statcast’s xERA (4.87) aren’t as bullish on Walker, who averaged just 4 2/3 innings per start in 2020.
Add in the elbow and shoulder injuries in 2018-19, and some trepidation from interested teams is understandable — but only to an extent. We’ve seen the free-agent market regularly pay upwards of $10-12MM per year on mutli-year deals to fourth starter types, and Walker ought to be at least that moving forward. His prospect pedigree, youth, velocity and raw stuff give him the upside to become quite a bit more than that as well.
With the Mets, Walker needn’t perform like anything more than a fourth starter, thanks to the talent they already have atop their starting staff. Of course, if he does take a step forward and pitch closer to last year’s ERA marks, an already impressive rotation will only look all the more formidable. With the newest agreement in place, the Mets have an enviable quintet of deGrom, Carrasco, Stroman, Walker and Peterson. Beyond that looms the return of Noah Syndergaard, who’ll ideally be ready for a summer return following his own Tommy John surgery last May.
Unlike in 2020, that group is backed up by considerable depth. Joey Lucchesi, Jordan Yamamoto, Sean Reid-Foley and Sam McWilliams were added to the 40-man roster via trade and free agency this winter, and prospects Franklyn Kilome and Thomas Szapucki will be able to work toward minor league readiness in a game setting. The Mets also added lefty Mike Montgomery and righty Jerad Eickhoff on minor league deals, and it’s conceivable that they could yet bring in some additional non-roster depth in Spring Training.
While it may not be quite the offseason Mets fans envisioned, it’s hard to look at the current roster and consider the offseason anything other than a substantial step in the right direction. New York’s marquee acquisition of Francisco Lindor and Carrasco will go down as its largest strike of the offseason, with free-agent acquisitions of Walker, James McCann, Trevor May, Jonathan Villar, Kevin Pillar, Aaron Loup and Albert Almora have deepened the roster.
The Mets didn’t shatter the luxury tax threshold as many expected when Steve Cohen purchased the team — they’d have done so had their near-deal with Trevor Bauer been completed — but Walker’s deal pushes their baseline payroll and their luxury-tax ledger both just shy of $200MM. It’s a franchise record for Opening Day payroll by a magnitude of roughly $40MM, setting the tone for future offseasons under Cohen’s ownership.
When you go from Bauer, Odorizzi, Paxton, to Walker. Mets free agency folks
Walker isnt really worse than Odorizzi or Paxton by much
Brixton, there’s potential, but his career FIP is 4.24 and he’s produced a 1.6 WAR in the last three seasons.
Due to lack of pitching, which is the same issue wjth the other two guys that were mentioned. Walker when hes on is better than Odorizzi
Why are you using war to describe someone who has thrown 67 pitches in 3 years? War is cumulative so of corse it will be low.
So a pitcher’s inability to pitch should not be factored into his evaluation as a pitcher? How about his 4.24 career FIP? Or even his 4.5 FIP in 2020? Are these also irrelevant?
How about looking beyond the numbers and actually watching him pitch? Scouts still do that and fans can do it, too. I watched Walker pitch a couple of times last year, including an outing against the Dodgers. He was healthy and looked outstanding. In his case, health is the most important factor because he certainly has the talent.
It shouldn’t be factored in when using war.
But talking about FIP, Odorizzi’s career xFIP is 4.43, Walker’s 4.18. So even by using all of your metrics, you aren’t proving you’re original point.
I saw him pitch quite a bit when he was on Toronto. I was simply countering the OP’s positioning. As I noted below, I think it’s an ok signing, but one I wouldn’t overrate. There seems to a vibe in MLBTR that you either have to be overly enthusiastic or wildly pessimistic. Not my style.
4.24 career FIP is what a 2/20 deal is worth in 2021 and the correct value, please adjust your inner standards for player salaries.
Well it is the standard of some MLB front offices. If you are so much smarter than them, then why aren’t you getting paid for it, instead of playing tough on an anonymous thread?
Steve, what’s my *original* point? I simply responded to poster Brixton’s comment that he wasn’t far behind the likes of Odorizzi. I disagree. I rate pitchers on both quantity and quality. That includes a variety of stats, including WAR and FIP, and frankly many more. Odorizzi averaging 30 starts a year over six seasons, from 2014-2019, will be part of my assessment when doing comparisons.
For the final time, I didn’t say I hate the signing. I believe I have a fairly balanced view on it.
Feel free to disagree but I haven’t read anything here from you or others to change my POV.
Marty, is that directed at me? It’s difficult to tell with the way responses thread. I never commented on the salary. Some here are into a bit of goal post moving on what was a fairly innocuous and balanced response on my part. It’s true that I don’t see it as enthusiastically as others, but as I’ve stated, it’s a decent depth signing.
he pitches high in the zone very well
I don’t fully understand some of these signings. Why do you need Almora and Pillar? This is an overpay for Tajuan as well.
Odorizzi is far better than Walker imo. Potential is nice but it doesn’t make much difference if you barely step foot on the field. It’s the same reason why I’d prefer JBJ to Kiermaier in center and Didi over Simba at SS. Gotta play those games to actually make a difference.
@Brixton “when he’s on” which is never because he’s always injured, rehabbing an injury, or on his 1st/2nd/3rd start coming back from an injury. His peripherals aren’t that great either and he loves! pitching up in the zone which is a recipe for long balls.
Yeah, for sure @lord99.
Tell ya what though. If the Yanks had signed him I’d be doing cartwheels in the snow.
As a mid/back end starter I think he’s more than capable. Nearly every pitcher has question marks. I like Walker. But, yeah, there are some questions.
All in all,it’s a good add for the mets.
Pretty reasonable contract, too.
I still find it hilarious that people get upset and argue with each other over stuff from the internet
That’s not fair he was out with TJ for two of those and the third was 2020 (when he was very good)
Seeing as he was coming back from tommy John you have to take it with a grain of salt. He’s also still pretty young and has time to improve
Ducky, I agree. And I suspect if I posted my exact same comments about Walker if he signed with the Yankees, which I would, I’d be battling Yankee fans instead of Mets fans about my lukewarm endorsement!
Except rumor is Odorizzi’s back makes him a signing risk. Paxton is never healthy. It’s a good signing for a fifth starter.
You know Odorizzis career FIP is 4.12 and Bauer’s is 3.85….both are better than Walker’s but Odorizzi in particular is only marginally so
At cubfever. Part of Alderson’s goal was the replenish AAA with players who had major league experience. The 4 center field signings, I expect just 1 stick (Pillar) along with Villar who can also play center and IF. Mallex Smith and Albert Almora will go to AAA and maybe revive a career, fill in a few weeks here and there and maybe play well enough to get traded or surprise Sandy.
At houken, very similar to Rosenthal following TJS. I can only imagine how tentative these guys are when they come back. It must take a while to just let it fly.
Completely agree..
I’ve been saying that for a while, he pitches up easily because its his natural motion and because of that he can throw the fastball up all day.
It sets up his breaking pitch, same initial plane as the elevated fastball.
And the stats you used were completely counter to your point. If you wanna use new stats now that you were wrong, feel free. No one can your POV if literally being wrong wont change it.
“it shouldn’t be factored in when using war”….why not? That’s how much value he has added over the last 3 seasons.
It should be factored in.
He did use FIP and he basically told the story. This isn’t a bad deal but it’s not record-breaking. Enough said on that front.
Walker has been better more recently than all of those guys except Bauer and Bauer is a nut job.
Well said carlos15.
Bad grammer but, im not taking 2020. He has the potental to be good but he’s always injured.
Grammar
-Grammar, not “grammer”
-The comma goes before the “but”.
-I’m not “im”
-Missed the comma before the second “but”
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Your write!
Thx for making me feel like shet lmao
Perhaps an injury is the cause of your awful grammar.
Quotation outside the period, not in.
Technically, no periods in a bullet point. I don’t know why I hit period there, but it further proves the point.
That rule never made sense.
I’m a baseball fan not an English teacher, Jim!!!!
they’re
Ha! Funny, 377194. Well played.
Makes perfect, young sir.
LoL – I thought the same while reading this wonderfully entertaining grammar lesson.
Luc2 –
You’re not taking 2020 where? If you’re going to call out someone else’s “grammer”, you might want to check yourself before you post.
I think Luc 2 also meant talking, not taking. And for movie buffs, I thought the saying was “Let he who is without sin stone the cast first “
You can tell Steve really loves to hear himself speak.
hes probably overweight and not very well liked. Most people who are as hyperactive on these things usually are incels too
Steve, I’m an editor, and I thank you. Also, as this winter continues, we Mets fans are laughing at whatever team Luc follows.
Robluca is a crack junkie and creeps people out. I don’t remember seeing him on this site probably because he was looking for a plumber to stare at his crack.
Not sure how you came to that conclusion. Was your doctorate on what type of people comment on chats? It is just a wild assumption. I also don’t understand big fancy words what is an incel? I post on these chats so I am fat and an incel.
..yeah. you have a real good chance as the former and a future as the latter
He’s also paid far more at the expense of one shortened superstar season.
Still it’s now a pretty darn good rotation
I mean, Stroman (best FA pitcher) accepted the QO, they traded for Carrasco, and made excellent margin moves like Lucchessi, Yamamoto, Sam McWilliams, and Jerad Eickhoff. I’m not disappointed at all with Walker.
On what planet was Stroman the best free-agent pitcher?
On a planet where Trevor Bauer doesn’t exist.
2nd or 3rd best
As much as I hate Bauer, Stroman is no where near best FA. Stroman is overrated and can only go 5 innings lol
Why do you hate another person? Kinda childish, isn’t it?
It’s not childish to hate someone you hippie
It is easy to hate other people when you have no self reflection…
A lot of guys only go 5 innings these days., Heck, Glasnow is being talked about one of the top pitchers in the gam and he has issues getting past the 5th inning still.
I really don’t think Glasnow is that good. He’s record doesn’t support a “top” pitcher claim.
Yea but he is attractive.
LOL you just saying that since your a dodger fan and I can’t hate a nutjob. Im 14 so I guess I am still a child?
I wouldn’t necessarily make the claim that Stroman is better than Bauer bc Bauer has more upside… But if you look at career numbers Stroman leads in ERA, FIP & WHIP, with an identical ERA+ … Really Bauer has just pitched more innings and had a really good combined 1.5 seasons w a clunker in the middle
I hate everyone equally for a variety of reasons,
I’d probably hate more (any?) people if I just wasn’t so damn lazy.
It just seems like so much effort, @clipper.
Bauer provides plenty of reasons
If someone is able to pitch more innings at the same quality….they are better.
The rotation has got to stay somewhat healthy
Could have done worse… Like 90% of the teams in MLB that didn’t sign starters.
A team that was a non-factor last year went to a legit contender almost over night. Yet there is still negativity about the Mets offseason.
I agree….the Mets have had a great off-season. Better than all but 2-3 other teams in all of baseball. Plus they don’t have to pay Bauer $85 mil for the next two years!
They’ll still end up around .500. Mets have never really had a good year after their last free agency raid. Just because they make a bunch of signings doesn’t guarantee that they have the best season. Braves and Marlins both pass out the Mets. I know I’m crazy for predicting that, but I’m going with it. Nats mixed in there somewhere (it’s a crapshoot for them, they could be good or bad). I don’t see Phils better than .500 either.
That’s based on what some (metsfan22 as an example) fans predicted and constantly posted about what the mets were going to do this offseason. In a vacuum, sure it was a fine offseason for them. Compared to what was bandied about on this site? Not so much. I think that’s where the disconnect is.
This isn’t fantasy baseball. The game isn’t played on paper/screen, unless you’re some fat tub of lard sitting with an IPad propped on your gut. Yes, the Mets are fun to trash, like most everything (but the food/nightlife) in NY, but they are indeed contenders now. They have a punchers chance if they make the playoffs.
The sheer gutlessness of those willing to accept crumbs never ceases to amaze.
The Mets have the third best starting pitcher by ERA+ in 120 years, a terrific nucleus better by WAR than pretty much everyone except the Dodgers and Braves, and $100m to spend— and they’re still nowhere near the best teams.
Horrifying.
The only possible explanation for accepting this nonsense is a fanbase beaten down by decades of Wilpon idiocy. Mets fans are like kidnap victims., or adult children of alcoholics who can’t face the simplest facts and instead attack anyone bringing up those facts.
No other team would have hired Alderson. No one was hiring Porter.. No one would have hired Rojas. Ownership and the front office remain broken.
Demand better. Much better.
Dude at least give this ownership a year before you freak out and make assessments/assumptions. Of course I’m sure you’ll never admit to being wrong even if the Mets win the division this season
Walker has a lower career ERA than Bauer who has had 1 1/2 good years.
@Luc
So:
* strengthened the staff with Carrasco and Walker (and QO’ed Stroman)
* improved catching with McCann
* strengthed bullpen with May and Loup
* massively improved SS with Lindor
* filled in reserve gaps with Pillar, Martinez, and Almora
Yeah, wow. What a bad offseason. Some of you people who seem to exist solely to bash single teams are pathetic.
@rct your assuming I said bad off season. You ppl assume random shet. I was saying before the offseason the Mets were expected to sign Springer, Bauer, or JT. Even 2 maybe. Once again Steve COhen was tweeting that oh my god I got the bag to spend. So stay mad kid
They got Carlos Carrasco & Taijuan Walker tho.
The Mets Rotation is deGrom, Stroman, Carrasco, Walker & Peterson with Reid Foley if anyone gets hurt. Speaking of getting hurt they also have Syndergaard but idk how healthy he is.
You add All Stars Francisco Lindor & James McCann to the lineup. That takes pressure off of Alonso.
They added May & Loup to the Pen, which already has Diaz, Lugo, Familia & Betances.
Added additional depth with Jose Martinez, Jonathan Villar & signing almost everyone in Baseball to a Minor League deal.
The Mets are building a good club.
The mets have had a great season. DeGrom, Stroman, Carraso is a hell of a 1-2-3
That makes for a pretty good rotation, especially if Thor comes back strong.
He’ll eventually be the 5th starter. Compared to most teams in MLB that’s a very good rotation.
28 year old with Sub 4 ERA, 9K per 9 IP from your #5? I’ll take it.
Amazing he’s only 28; seems like he should be in his mid-30s by now. He started so young.
Accept the advanced metrics don’t support that stat line. Under normal circumstances he’s like a 4 era starter with an injury history. It also cost you 10 million a season yikes
4.00 ERA starters who are 28 years old are definitely worth $10m. Easily. Everyone bringing up his injury history….. he had tommy John and 1 set back. Not that long of a history
He’s been in the league since 2013 with only 600 innings pitched
Aaaaaaaayyyyyy we got one lol
lol. y’all started by shopping on Rodeo and ended at Goodwill
Was a great signing, Goodwill has nothing to do with it. Obtuse fans think the only way to build a team is by overpaying big name free agents. Mets have a good plan here and it doesn’t involve childish notions about “winning” free agency by collecting names.
The upside is there and honestly, he’s better than what they had at the 5th spot before they signed him. The mets had to sign somebody.
Ugh and the Mariners choke on what should have been an easy signing.
Gonzales, Paxton, Dunn, kikuchi, and Sheffield. They didn’t need him.
Dont get me wrong i think we could have an amazing lineup of starters BUT:
Pax has a history of not completing seasons due to injury. Dunn is all over the board in terms of command and his peripherals. kikuchi has massive improvement but he still hasnt broken out
Sheffield and Marco are the only solid “every 5 days” guys.
We could still use the depth.
Mariners will be good next year. The won’t make WC this year because of other teams but I can see them maybe compete for division. It will be hard but maybe.
I think the rotation will be fine but of course they could use more pitching. Just like the bullpen should be ok but doesn’t mean they couldn’t use more relievers.
Plus Ms are running a 6 man rotation this season.
Dunn is destined for AAA or relief (at some point), Flexen would be more useful in long-relief, and Seattle is running a 6-man rotation.
There’s room.
The Mariners got Paxton tho… You can’t sign every Free Agent
Every team could use another starter. Every team except the dodgers lol. Would’ve been a nice reunion but it seems like $10m is too pricy for us this year. Walker probably also didn’t want to sign a multi year deal in Seattle
At this point in the offseason, it’s about as good as it’ll get. They needed another arm, and he’s more than serviceable. The rotation should last and if they need to they can get another one by the deadline.
Probably better this way than to throw $40m at Bauer anyway.
Completely agree. Now they can concentrate on extending Lindor / Conforto
Much better than throwing the bank at Bauer. Much better.
Mets now better than the Dodgers and it’s not particularly close.
Signed Metsfan22
LMAO fax. Metsfan22 be like the Mets are better than a team of trout, cole, betts, soto, and scherzer
@Luc 2
Don’t you know? The Mets are the best last place team ever!
*because of metsfan22 we don’t even need the playoffs just give the mets the next 20 or so not like anyone is gonna win anyways*
Yes I totally agree
Same level imo
@MetsFan22
Does this bring the Mets to 103 wins or are they still at 102 wins?
Marlins fan and Mets fan continue their pillow fight. This is sure to be a riveting matchup that we all have to suffer through this season! Nothing better than 2 Blowhards spewing crap at each other!
LOL @JohnnyBets67
The best part is that one fan knows the reality of his team, while the other is a Mets fan that thinks his team is as good or better than the defending World Series Champions.
hey johnnY-bag-a-donuts. fuggettabout it. Dey aint taklin ta yous anyway
Marlinsfan: be careful about criticizing other folks “reality”. You still live in baseball caveman days.. your reality is that walks don’t matter and that the Mets are a perennial last place team even though they rarely finish last, unlike some teams.
There’s is no way you can seriously think the Mets are on the same level as the Dodgers. Totally nonsensical statement.
Been wanting Walker since day 1.
Watch him put up a 6.24 and hit the IL with shoulder inflammation in May.
Puck the Mets. In all seriousness, they look scary on paper. They can definitely give the Braves a run for the East this year
@bravesfan as a Nats fan you have a lock. The Nats and Mets will fight for 2nd WC
Bravesfan. My Mets are not scary. There’s no one in the lineup that scares you and even Jake, as good as he is, isn’t scary. Randy Johnson, Clemmens, Ryan, they were scary. Metsies have better talent than last season and are in a position to win, but they have to play the games.
No scary bats either. None of the hitters is likely as MVP and none will get into Cooperstown without a ticket.
I mean they are no Padres in terms of upgrades and yes, you Mets have a way of falling apart the Mets way. But I said watch out for the Marlins last year. They are no cake walk. I figured mid of the pack and I think if we had a full season last year the Marlins would have landed mid pack, but ultimately they exceeded expectations. I’m saying it now, watch out for the Mets… Braves are still the team to beat, but if anyone is loaded enough to do it, it’s the Mets
Don’t you think that Nimmo will walk the Mets to the championship?
@marlins LOL!
He should have been traded with Davis and Murricio for Chapman after the signed Springer
@MarlinsFanBase: Nimmo’s 2020 OPS+ of 146 was higher than literally anyone on the Marlins last year. Your absurd obsession with insulting Nimmo is pathetic and reeks of envy.
Marlins: You wanna prepare yourself for some serious chiding around here when the Mets are in the thick of it and your Marlins are in the cellar. Get your fun in now cuz once the season starts….
I hope this is satire??? I agree the mets are not the dodgers but Lindor is definitely a top hitter. Also DeGrom is the best pitcher in baseball?
Lindor’s a good player, but a .341 OBP since 2017 and .335 for 2019-20 isn’t a top hitter..
The Mets need to be very careful if they sign an extension with him before the 2021 season. He hasn’t cracked 5 WAR since 2018. He;s had the one terrific year, but he’s nowhere near the likes of Trout, Betts, Tatis.
Do they really want to sign a 4-5 win player for a decade, into his age 37 season for $320m?
this is one of the most incredible examples of cherry picking i’ve seen in a minute
-Lindor’s career slash line is .285/.346/.488 for a 117 OPS+. Trevor Story’s is .277/.343./.535 for a 114 OPS+. Trea Turner is .296/.353/.480 for 115. Lindor is pretty much in line with the rest of the top players at his position.
-“He hasn’t cracked 5 WAR since 2018”: his bWAR is 5.0 in 2019, so I mean…wrong? and nobody cracked 5 WAR in 2020 for the obvious reasons.
@Citifield4eva: The Mets have one of the best lineups in baseball. I don’t know how you are defining ‘scary’, but they had an OPS+ of 122 as a team last year and have replaced their two worst positions (SS and Catcher) with Lindor and McCann.
Their defense stinks and the pitching staff could either be great or simply deGrom and a bunch of question marks, but the lineup is incredible.
rct – Trout, Acuna, Soto, Freddie, Harper, Soto, Stanton, Judge etc. = fear
McNeil, Smith, Nimmo – lol = warm milk
I think a lineup w Lindor Smith conforto McNeil Alonso Nimmo JD davis McCann is not one pitchers will want to face… and I’m not one of these people who still insists Lindor is a top 10 mlb bat… he’s not anymore (would love for him to get back to that)… but a deep lineup is no fun for any SP… their defense is crap but that lineup is solid
Alonso is more Mike Jacobs than Chipper Jones.
How did Stanton make his way on that list?
he’s got a big stick
pretty good, well balanced, quality depth – sure
Ain’t a single hitter that is a beast. Nope Not 1
Alonso is no Chipper but he’s a great player. Forget Jacobs, terrible comp
I look at it like this: there’s a good chance that the mets 5th and 6th starters (walker and luchesi) this year will be better than matz, porcello, and wacha were last year as the 2-4 starters.
Fair comment. Rotation is vastly better than last year and they are in a good spot to compete with the Braves
Walker has trouble making it through five innings. Wanted at least three years. Considering the timing hopefully it’s for less. Stroman the best FA starter? LMAO. Still by September this might end up being better than spending 40 mil on a guy that has had one full season and another 60 game run of brilliance. No one player is worth spending 20 percent of your payroll on.
fire Atkins.
You get a royalty to say this every thread?
Maybe use the money to get a life
Telling someone to get a life on an anonymous sports comment section has to be one of the most ironic things you could say.
I am joshing my dude, although Atkins is not very good at assembling a rotation.
Agreed, fire Atkins
Deep rotation. I don’t even think they needed Walker, but you may as well get depth. Mets are fully prepared for injuries, COVID absences…etc.
Von I was pretty close on that contract! Crazy market.
That’s true! You were on it. Good call.
Interesting to see the Mets haters on here… I’m a pretty realistic Mets fan, beaten down through years of disappointment… but this team is very good on paper.. every team has holes… they’re easily a playoff team barring injuries (that’s what scares me the most w them every year)
@Ma4170 The only reason the Mets would have trouble is the entire division improved. That’s pretty rare to see. Every single team is better on paper than they were last year. Normally, I’d say this Mets team is a lock for the playoffs, but the NL East is going to annihilate each other.
100% correct. I still think that the Braves are the team to beat. It should be a fun division to watch! Let’s bring it on!
the biggest problem in the nl east is that the marlins cant beat the braves, but the marlins play the mets very tough. also the phillies cant beat the marlins for whatever reason.
The marlins have a tough time vs the nats too, if we can get the marlins to beat up more on the braves and nats, we’re in a better place….
we have to be able to beat the marlins, phillies and nats on a more consistent basis.
That’s true, this is a tough division, no doubt
The Marlins don’t play the Mets tougher than anyone else. They don’t magically transform into a good team cuz of who their opponent is… you win some series you lose some series, that’s all.
Depending on the contract, this may have some value. But remember this. He pitched for the jays last year, and early in the offseason, he expressed intrest in returning there. The jays are in need of solid pieces for their rotation, and did not make any effort to bring him back. That says something.
The Mets now house three of the top 11 prospects in baseball according to MLB.com….in 2014.
(Man, they had Archie Bradley ahead of Baez, Correa, Bryant, Thor, and Springer to name a few.)
The People’s Republic of China frowns on anyone signing a player named Taijuan. ;-)
I guess he’s legally required to change his first name to “One China.” LOL
Or go political: Ty Juan tu-China?
He’d be booted from the NBA.
It’s an ok depth pickup since there’s some upside, and that’s something most depth signings can’t offer, but as the analysis notes, his peripherals tell a different story. Even last year when he had a 2.70 ERA, his FIP was approximately 4.50, and that fits with his career FIP of 4.25. He’s had exactly one good season when he’s delivered both quality and quantity, and that was four years back in 2017.
I’m not trashing the signing at all, just noting the Met fan enthusiasm is unwarranted. He’s not a great pitcher, but be happy if he gives the Mets 100 league-average innings. Successful teams this year will have their fifth, sixth and seventh starters all throwing around 100 or so innings to reduce the load on the front-end starters coming off the shortened 2020.
You could do worse than Walker, but don’t overrate him.
@lorddgg Many good points, but it’s worse than that in the sense that what the Mets really needed, if they were serious about winning it all, was a durable 1/2 SP to pair with deGrom— someone likely to survive well into October and be effective there.
Walker’s not that guy, in any sense. He’s solidly in the tier occupied by Lucchesi and Peterson, and roughly what Matz was in 2018-2019. He’s getting 2-3 years from a weak FO who bungled numerous other signings thanks to a fluke ERA in a short season.
This is a belt and suspenders signing that does nothing to propel the team deep into the postseason.
This was a good move that saves money for future needs and better than overpaying for some jerk with one and a half of great pitching surrounded by a career of mediocrity. There are ways to win better than by collecting every big name in free agency.
Well, it’s not my money, so all this pitching depth makes me happy as a fan.
It’s unrealistic to expect anything more than 25 starts or 150 innings, so Lucchesi still factors in greatly.
In this pandemic era, I do think a team needs 6 or even 7 dependable starters and at least three bullpen guys who can go 2+ innings regularly or stretch out to 4+ on short notice. Guys are going to miss starts due to quarantines and injuries. In addition, there are going to be a lot of unplanned double headers and cancellations resulting in long stretches of games without days off.
I think the Mets have set themselves up extremely well with a pitching staff for a marathon season. Lugo comes back who start or long relieve. Syndergaard comes back mid season to bolster the pen first, then the rotation. How many teams have 10 starting pitchers? Carrasco, deGrom, Peterson, Stroman, Walker, Lucchesi, Kilome, Syndergaard, McWilliams, Yamamoto. Eickhoff, Gsellman, Lugo and Montgomery can all go multiple innings, open or spot start when needed. That’s some serious depth!
I’m a Met fan and I approve of this signing.
Unlike most posters, I don’t have the crystal ball that tells me exactly how he will perform.
All I have is optimism.
I like this comment and perspective. I wish some of your other Mets fan brethren would take this approach instead of already ordering their Mets World Series tickets and merchandise, along with reserving their parade spots.
In 1973, my friend and I bought cigars to celebrate the Mets winning the World Series. Needless to say, that didn’t happen. Lesson learned. Since I’m also a Red Sox fan, I knew in 1986 that it wasn’t over. The Red Sox didn’t lose that game, the Mets won it. But everybody focuses on Buckner, who had nothing to do with it. Go back and watch every at bat in the Mets rally. Not one of those players is going to make the third out. Look at their faces. Determination. That 1986 Mets team was phenomenal. Eventually the Red Sox got their due, thanks to Mariano Rivera, the first unanimous hall of famer. Thanks, Mo. Well deserved by the way.
@whyhazee. I remember the exact same feeling. The determination to NOT be the last out was astounding. It was all through that team. They refused to fail and the focus was so dialed in you could feel it. That’s an intangible thing that no one talks about anymore – the will to win.
Marlins: there is literally ONE homer Met fan pushing that narrative. The rest of the time it’s you. Your projecting. Your obsessed with phantom Met fans and hating Nimmo and your outdated dislike of OBP.
And yet you don’t assume there’s no such thing as a meaningful weather prediction, don’t wander out in shorts when the national weather bureau predicts a blizzard, and I hope you don’t throw $1,000 down on million to one shots because, “hey, who can possibly know anything about anything?”
No one who posts like that ever, ever acts like they believe what they’re writing.
Whyhayzee. Good for you cause you’d have to be really careful with crystal ball
Tough to believe the Pirates weren’t in on the bidding.
Oh, Taijuan Walker I thought it was Nancy Walker.
They would have put him on the plank.
JJ Walker on line one.
Neil Walker reunion tour. Dyno-mite!
One more reliever to go.. Jefferies and or Osuna
No to Osuna, no wife beaters allowed.
I keep forgetting, prior to a guilty verdict we must believe every single allegation against everyone.
That’s not fair. They let Jose Reyes come back.
Can we just call him Tug? Always liked that nickname and McGraw isn’t around to use it. I like the ring to it.
Is being Tug Walker a felony in New York?
Only if you don’t wear a mask.
I’m thinking ‘Tex’ for Walker.
Solid depth signing. 28 and something to prove on a one year deal moving forward. If you want to get on them for not signing Bauer, fine, but getting him (and Springer) likely means no Syndergaard and Conforto moving forward. I’d rather have the latter
It’s a 2 yr with an option for a 3rd which I don’t like it’s taken away $$ from resigning Lindor,Conforto and Syndergaard
But it’s not a one year deal
Yeah my bad. Jumped the gun as I saw it reported as a 1 year deal.
Thor is probably not coming back til August now – maybe they should move him to closer just for his shortened season?
so deGrom, carasco, Stroman, walker, Peterson with Noah in the wings luchessi, mc Williams, for deph. i know some mets fan wanted Bauer and were disappointed not to get him, but I’m happy with this team the deph is fine and the fianancial flexibity is there for us to extend lindor and or mc30
That looks like a nice staff with depth
Mets really missed out on the mega free agent class. If it was not for getting Lindor, their offseason would have been awful considering their Cohen is like the richest man in the world haha. Guess people really dislike the Mets organization or something. They got swerved a ton
Went after Bauer, Springer, and JT and got none of them. Walker is a solid pitcher though so that was a nice add.
They also should have nutted up and signed JBJ. he would have done great in Citi field over Almora and Pillar
NL East is going to be a dog fight. Cant wait to watch!!!
**that Cohen
I’m still trying to figure out how this offseason under Cohen was any different than many of their offseasons under the Wilpons.
really wasnt any different. With Cohens money and hunger to win, I was expecting Springer, Bauer, and maybe more
The Willpons never would’ve made the Lindor/Carrasco deal this year only is $35 mil and not much $$ going back to Cleveland in the deal
Uh, the Wilpons have made big moves in seasons past and, like this year, it was only one big move surrounded by a bunch of budget signings of question mark players, with a PR push to sell you all the Kool-Aid….just like this year with Cohen. Go look at the Mets history of transactions under the Wilpons. This offseason has been no different.
For the “same old Mets” crowd
– Francisco Lindor
– Carlos Carrasco
– James McCann
– Marcus Stroman
– Trevor May
– Taijuan Walker
– Kevin Pillar
– Jonathan Villar
– Albert Almora
– Aaron Loup
– Joey Lucchesi
– Jordan Yamamoto
+ the farm system is stronger than at the beginning of the off season and way more depth all around.
This is 4 off seasons worth of acquisitions under the coupon regime.
I get that some people just like to bash the Mets no matter what, but I don’t get how anyone can look at their offseason and not realize how much better it is than any year in recent memory. Below is a list of players they will have on the team this year that they didn’t have last year and almost every one is a huge upgrade over the guy he’s replacing. Now please tell me objectivity which team had a better offseason.
Lindor
Carrasco
May
McCann
Stroman
Syndergaard
Walker
Loup
Lucchesi
Yeah, that list is just overflowing with studs.
Like I said, one big move surrounded by a bunch of mediocre, budget-friendly ones.
You must not know your own Mets history. The only difference now is the hype around the Mets under Cohen.
Thanks, your list is more compete than mine.
FYI – Syndergaard and Stroman were already on your team since 2019 for Stroman and long before with Syndergaard. And the Mets did what?
Very different. A boatload more money has been spent
Neither played last year. They should both be playing this year. That was pretty clearly my point with them.
Okay, so more money is spent. Okay, I guess spending more money to get the same results is all that matters then.
Congrats!
But Syndergaard and Stroman played previous years, and weren’t difference makers. So, that means what?
Can you please let me know which team has had a better offseason?
Padres, Dodgers…just to name 2.
Name another. If you’re telling me the Mets had the 3rd best off-season, I’d happily take it.
I dont care one way or the other but half that list are not good players. That said I like Walker and am jealous of him.
Phillies had a significantly better off season as well. NOBODY thought they were gonna bring back JT, Didi and fix the bullpen. And they did all of the above. The Mets just happened to be the beneficiaries of a salary dump. All their other moves have been subpar. And every attempt they made at a big name fell flat. Not to mention all the uhhhh “accusations” they have going on at the moment. I’m waiting for women to start calling out daddy Cohen any day now lmao
This is such a foolish comment. You’re dismissing the 2 big names they got because they were salary dumps as if they’ll help the team any less. The other moves they’ve made all clearly help as well. In regards to the accusations, these were, for the most part, all with other teams. Cohen acted very quickly to get rid of them which shows me things are changing. Has Mickey been fired by the Angels yet?
Marlinsfanbase-It’s not very hard to figure out. They are going into opening day with a payroll 40 million dollars higher then ever before. That’s a HUGE difference then when the Mets were owned by the Wilpons. To me it just seems like you are a troll who roots for a team that has no fan base no matter how good or bad they are. At least the Mets have fans that are engaged and care about their team. What do you have? An empty ballpark unless the Mets or Yankees are in town. That’s pretty sad. Worry about your own team and stop obsessing over the Mets.
@Seltz
Every team that didn’t have to fire their newly hired GM for sexual harassment (and have to field tough questions about their previous manager sexually harassing four women). Those teams had a more successful off-season.
So the teams that had Porter when the harassment actually occurred and gave rave reviews of him take no blame whatsoever, got it.
@SeltzerM It’s not a foolish comment at all. You just didn’t get it. Those two players are awesome. They truly are, but the Mets don’t get credit for being shrewd because they got two allstar players dumped on their lap by a desperate team with no cash flow for absolutely nothing in return. Same goes for other other teams with similar moves like the Cardinals and Nolan. And outside of that move, almost every player they signed they had to sign because the primary options all turned them down. Are they better? Sure. But so far this front office isn’t better than what they had. They just have more money now. And mind you, Mets fans have been complaining for years about them not spending, but they still had a top 10 payroll….they just sucked regardless.
Incredible that the difference between Realmuto and McCann was 3-4 WAR but only $13m and one year. Or that the Mets really needed a 3Bman, Arenado was available for no meaningful MLB talent, but Alderson never had significant discussions with Colorado.
Alderson also napped through the fact that Lance Lynn, Darvish, Snell, and Musgrove were available.
You know an offseason plan is half-arsed when you default after Bauer, whose ERA+ in 2018 and 2020 beat deGrom’s 2018, 2019, 2020 peak…. to Taijuan Walker and his 70 innings pitched and 4.40 FIP over the last three years,
That’s the definition of cluelessness and letting circumstances push you around. Somehow that didn’t happen to the Padres, Dodgers, or Braves.
Marlinsfanbase-Just keep trolling buddy. It’s the only thing you have to look forward to. What moves has your team made this off season? What excitement are they generating? You call the moves the Mets made as mediocre. But most of the depth pieces the Mets added would start for your team. The Mets addressed almost every need they had this offseason.So they didn’t get any of the big 3 or 4 free agents. The Lindor/Carrasco deal made up for it. The best part is they will make moves if need be during the season. Your team will be dumping players and getting prospects for a future no one cares about. Good luck and enjoy the season.
Your comment regarding the accusations is what really irked me and led me to call it foolish. Most of what happened either happened with other teams or under different ownership. I very much approve of the way Cohen has handled this so far and don’t believe that the Wilpons would have done the same. It just really bothers me that the Mets seem to be the only team to take any heat for any of this regardless of which teams these guys were with when the incidents actually happened or in Mickey’s case, the team he is currently with.
In regards to the player moves they made, yes they missed out on the biggest 3 free agents but I belive they have spent wisely and that this is still the best off season they’ve had in the last decade at least.
@flyingblind. Thanks for saving me the time of typing that out. Well done, sir.
BRUH they keep getting flak for it because every time some scandal breaks out across baseball the Mets are ALWAYS the one common denominator. They continuously hire questionable characters. And it doesn’t matter whether they are aware of existing accusations or not because they hire clowns regardless and then end up having to fire them after everyone else finds out. So yeah I’m sorry if the truth hurts. The solution is simple, tell your team to stop hiring cheaters and skirt grabbers. Damn.
Marlins: Better plan. Again if the only thing you are willing to concede is different is stupid spending on every big name then understanding of the situation escapes you.
Cohen is smart. Throwing money at every big name free agent is a DUMB plan that leads to nothing but bloated payroll. Cohen has a plan and it doesn’t involve the absurd misconceptions that fans have whereby spending stupid equals winning. Soooo glad they didn’t overpay for Bauer.
@itsstillmiller. Maybe, just maybe, the players went where THEY wanted to all along? It’s obvious teams are told they are in the bidding war just so they can drive up the contract terms. Can’t blame the owner for trying and getting out once the price has gone ludicrous speed and wasting time.
Congratulations to Taijuan Walker. You are now officially an Ace pitcher. You don’t ever have to perform like one, but wearing the Mets uniform automatically makes you into one…like the tradition of Matt Harvey, Steven Matz, Noah Syndergaard, Zack Wheeler, Johnathan Niese, Victor Zambrano, Kris Benson, Generation K, and many other Mets pitchers.
You really have a deep vested interest in the Mets franchise. It’s ok if you’re a closet fan. I know there hasn’t been much to follow when tracking Marlins FA this off-season. Hence the extra time on your hands.
You’re an ace!!! Time to do a few lines of coke and crash your boat… oh. Wrong team.
That was a low blow
depends on how u do it
Walker will gladly take Wheeler’s contract in January 2023, I’d guess…
Im actually starting to think MarlinsFanBase is MetsFan86 or a bigger troll than them now. Had some interesting arguments originally but now only quotes metsfan86 and anyone that disproves anything marlinsfanbase with actual facts or any reasonable arguments just points back to something metsfan86 says which i dont think any real commenter on here takes seriously anymore. Can we ask the moderators to have a metsfan and marlinfan only chat and just let them go at it?
@flyby….weird. I rarely comment, but I do like to call out knuckleheads like Marlins fan. Seems you must have me confused with someone else. please show me where MarlinsFanBase has even responded to anything I have said? Get your facts straight bucko
The entire Marlins fan base is this one guy with multiple personalities about 10 people
As a replacement for Matz who has been the 4th or 5th starter the last several seasons, this is an upgrade.
I’m really not understanding all moaning that I’m still hearing about not signing Bauer and that somehow this reflects that the new owenership is no different from the Wilpons . Bauer is not worth $40 million a year period, For a reality check, check out Bauer’s 10 game stretch in 2019 after being traded from the Indians to the Reds.
Other than a great 11 game stretch last season, his numbers are comparable or worse than Carasco or Stroman over their careers.
I’m looking at all the comments from MarlinsFanBase. And I could only come up with one scenario. Dude is having a massive panic attack rn.
Panic attack about what? Taijuan Walker?
Yeah, how many wins are the Mets are right now? How many games out of 4th place are the Marlins finishing this year?
Marlinsfanbase-I hope you enjoyed your extended playoff run in a season when they played less than 40% of the games. Your team was mediocre at best last year. They never would have made the playoffs in a full season. It will be a decade before they will be a contender and just like before no one will care. I hope that gives you and the 3 other marlins fans something to be excited about.
He does seem to enjoy commenting and bashing the team on every Mets thread. Kind of ironic considering the Marlins have not had any much success since their 2003 WS win despite the talent coming through the organization.
Trolls gotta troll
it is the first time in over a decade that the team ended over 500 … i mean even a dead watch is right twice a day. maybe this was their twice a day and they go back to under 500 til 2031.
20MM seems like too much for Walker, especially from the Mets who don’t have a huge need for him. Still, Mets looking good as far as depth is concerned. And I guess money isn’t an issue.
Any team’s fans would be satisfied with the moves the Mets made this offseason. They put serious offers on the table for top star acquisitions and furthered their organization whenever they missed out on a player. They never stopped moving forward and consistently tried to improve. Of course, they didn’t win the offseason, and I’m not implying they did; nonetheless, they were close.
Although Cohen was not the FA shark many purported him to be, spending at all costs, I commend his first FA as a brand new owner.
Padres, Dodgers, Cardinals, White Sox and Blue Jays all did better then the Mets. They are one level behind like the Yankees, Braves, Brewers and Nationals.
I guess better is relative, but I get what you mean. They needed to do better, because in many ways the Mets were already better, if in names only. Put it this way, our own team should’ve done much more than it did. We should be definitively better than we were three months ago and we may not be. We don’t know yet because we’re relying on recovering pitchers to determine that fate.
We need pitching, catching, and SS. We could’ve achieved all three and been a lock, save for unforeseen circumstances (see JTR).
Mets did everything they could – it’s just nobody wanted to play for them.
There is only one pitcher that would have made a difference and he is getting $40m plus in La, La Land with the Dodgers. Shortstop: I have confidence in Torres. Catcher I agree with you on Sanchez. But look what McCann got: DOUBLE Sanchez and we have plenty of prospects that would be blocked if we signed McCann for 4 years.
Okay, I’ll bite. The NYMs added Lindpor, Carrasco, May, McCann, Lucchesi, and Walker.
The Cards added Arenado, but lost Wong.
The LAD added Bauer & lost (minor) Kike & Pedersen
The WS added Eaton & Hendriks, but lost McCann & Colome.
In terms of WAR, the NYMs out-performed the other teams by maybe a factor of 3x.
I do not think so. Let’s start with the Dodgers: Would you sacrifice Kike and Petersen for Bauer? White Sox: Do not forget Lance Lynn. Cardinals: Wong for Arenado? Anyone is making that swap. At least you did not try and argue the Mets did better then San Diego and Toronto..
I don’t think you understand the point you were trying to make.
You said, for example, that the Cards did better than the NYMs.
The Cards added a projected 3.7 WAR with Arendao, while the NYMs added a projected 4.5 WAR with Lindor. So far, the NYMs are ahead.
But then the NYMs added 5 other decent/good players, while the Cards lost Wong.
Do you see how adding players is more helpful than losing players?
Most of the Mets FA signings have been overpays. And yeah, none of the big guys were signed. I guess they went for quantity over quality
I’d say the Mets offseason didn’t unfold exactly as many Mets fans anticipated, but it was a measured success. Adding in Lindor and Carrasco is huge. Mets fans don’t know how good Carrasco is, and many underrate Stroman. The one big signing they missed is Springer. They need a CFer, and all joking aside about the Astros and cheating, Springer would bring swag, attitude and a bat that has played up in the postseason. Move Nimmo to the corner and looked to trade Conforto, who is going to be very expensive to sign and likely doesn’t repeat his BABiP- fueled 2020.
Regardless, what the Mets did is something the Yankees traditionally do well, which is built a stronger pen and added depth for the 162-game grind. That’s an advantage money brings. Adding in the Pillar’s, Almora’s, Walker’s, etc. will pay dividends across the season.
I’m actually surprised with Cohen on following through with his word. They may have whiffed on Springer and did put forth a genuine effort but didn’t sit on their hands afterwards. For years, Mets fan have had to endure the Wilpons’ buffoonery and empty promises. I’m excited for Mets fans (which are some of my friends) and their future and look forward to some real crosstown rivalry and Subway series.
As a Yankee fan I saw enough of Stroman not to be impressed. Why? Stroman is one of these guys who gives up 2 runs and loses 2-1 or gives up 6 runs and loses 6-5. Very much reminds me of David Price.
Wouldn’t this fall on the offense in providing inadequate run support? Average runs per game in 2020 was 4.65. If the Mets can win in 60% of Stroman’s starts, they’re in good shape given the scope of the NL East.
I can agree, I haven’t been that impressed with Stroman. I wasn’t cheering when the Mets got him back this year when he accepted the qualifying offer. It may look good on paper, but never seems to get the job done. Like it makes sense in theory, but never pans out. Hopefully I am wrong and he has a great season.
yeah Captain Obvious .600 ball is pretty good and he’s an SP3
@Yankee Clipper Cohen? Is that you?
Nonsense. The FO had $100m to spend and clearly had talent they were willing to deal. Given that context, this was an abysmal offseason.
The Mets aren’t even noticeably better than the Braves at this point. It’s incredible, really.
my Metsies are the 2nd best team in MLB
They wanted Bauer or Springer and got Walker. Sort of like expecting to take the A-Lister to the Prom and got the D-Lister instead.
Oh come on! You just know, like any guy that got rejected by the A-Lister, that he’ll say that he didn’t really like the A-Lister any way and actually wanted the D-Lister.
Double D Lister
I like this signing, dudes always been good but just gets hurt
The dude has always been ordinary–for 160 innings a year from 2015-2017. . Except the last 3 years, when he totaled 70 innings.
2015-2017:. 102 ERA+ in 461 innings. 84 starts,
8.2k, 2.7, 1.3, 8.6 h/9 4.22 FIP, 1.253 WHIP.
Walker’s a fairly ordinary starter whose peripherals show he doesn’t have much upside. He’s basically Jose Quintana but without having proven the durability. Quintana 2017-2019 534ip:, 8.7, 2.9, 1.1, 8.8, 1.307, 3.96 FIP; 100 ERA+, 95 GS. Quintana’s the better pitcher, with the much better career, and a FIP that’s 6/10th of a run better than Walker.
The fuss seems to be over a fluke 2.70 ERA in 2020. It’s nuts.
Sounds like a pretty nice deal at that price.
Fantastic offseason.
How many wins are the Mets at now? 102? 103? How many?
And how many games out of 4th place are the Marlins finishing this year in a full 162 game season?
95-105
And marlins are a virtual lock for 5th
I don’t think the Mets get 95, but only because the division is tough. I think NL East kills each other to the point that the weak central may get the wildcard. Mets will be competing for 1st IMO.
90-72 is the ceiling for the Mets and the Braves will still win 95 games.
Dude I’m gonna be balling in tears when the Mets finish next year 4th just above the Nationals lmfaoooo. You’ll be crying for a new owner right around this time next year.
I would have to say the Mets look pretty good on paper lots of ifs but I think the upside can be huge
This was a decent off-season, but what would really make it better would be extending their top pending free agents and/or giving Tatis-type extensions to McNeil and Alonso.
Every time there’s an article about the Mets, the fiction writers come out of the woodwork like hungry worms and furiously type their diatribe. Must mean something’s up. Could it mean the Mets are about to be (gasp) good? Starting their 60th season with 2 World Championships when the major leagues now have 30 teams. Right on schedule.
Phillies had a significantly better off season as well. NOBODY thought they were gonna bring back JT, Didi and fix the bullpen. And they did all of the above. The Mets just happened to be the beneficiaries of a salary dump. All their other moves have been subpar. And every attempt they made at a big name fell flat. Not to mention all the uhhhh “accusations” they have going on at the moment. I’m waiting for women to start calling out daddy Cohen any day now lmao
Phillies did not do better. They merely maintained what they already had. The same can be said of the Yankees with DJ and I’m a Yankees fan.
Chemo850
Phillies had a significantly better off season as well.
===============================================================
Besides not losing anyone, what did they add? I think DD did well enough, but they really aren’t that much better than last year. The Mets are way, way better than last year.
@Darth and JoeBrady I don’t think the poster meant they did better than the Mets. But to say the Phillies just brought back the same team is ridiculous. Phillies had a top 5 offense last year and technically a top 10 rotation in terms of ERA. They brought back that lineup and added rotation depth with low risk veteran starter signings. The Phillies bullpen was an absolute disaster in 2020. They made a ton of moves to fix this pen, most notably the Archie Bradley signing. Bradley is a proven closer. With this bullpen the Phillies make the playoffs in 2020. The problem is, it’s 2021 and the Braves, Mets and Nats all improved. So the Phillies are nowhere near as improved as the Mets, but the Phils are a much better team than they were last year. They have a completely rebuilt bullpen which was their major weakness. I don’t understand how you can say it’s the same team as last year.
I meant it in the sense that the Phillies did exactly what they wanted and more. The Mets on the other hand failed at almost every deal they got involved in. And they are most definitely not way way better. On paper maybe, but realistically that rotation is a walking DL trip.
There is nothing you can do about a player not wanting to play for you, or someone else over-bidding for a player.
Further, teams should cast a wide net. If you need almost an entire BP, like the Phillies, you should have eyes on 20 of them, in the hope you can nail 3-4.
But the amount of new talent the NYMs added was immense.
@Chemo850 Cohen already has a few accusations, all before his involvement with the Mets. Mets knew who they were selling their team too.
I hope the Mets have plans to use some of their extra starters out of the bullpen, since their rotation is so deep and their bullpen isn’t.
@PitcherMeRolling It’s not a deep rotation in any meaningful sense. All Walker does is give the Mets more starts in the Peterson / Lucchesi / McWilliams tier, something they hardly needed.
Use SIERA if you want, but Walker had a FIP of 4.33 for 2015-2017, missed nearly all of 2018-2019, then put up a FIP of 4.56 with comparable other root metrics in 2020–that’s actually worse than Joey Lucchesi’s career numbers and right around Peterson’s FIP during his only innings above AA.
Just awful. .
@Jack you’re talking about one guy. Their rotation was deep before the signing and it’s deeper now.
Cool let’s all argue about it now
We have to be honest, outside of the Lindor trade the Met’s had a disappointing free agent offseason. However, that may not matter if Lindor lives up to his potential AND they manage to sign him long-term.
Lindor’s last two seasons, being kind and using fWAR, come in at 4.5 fWAR each. That’s not someone you want to pay $30m a year to, let alone deal away 2-3 WAR they were paying 3m total for. in order to shell out $22.3m to Lindor in 2021.
According to Fangraphs, 4.5 WAR is worth about $36M. Also, Rosario’s career WAR is 2.3 and Gimenez has played part of a shortened season.
But, why let facts get in the way?
I’m not disappointed. I think the Mets found a good middle ground between Wilpon cheap and “stupid money” I really wanted Springer but not for more than $150 MM. As much as I liked Gimenez, I think the Lindor/Carrasco trade was a huge bargain. They tried at Bauer but apparently he was always going to LA. They may have overpaid a little for McCann and Walker but left themselves with plenty to spend over the next 2 years
Walker is better than Matz but he’s still an injury liability. I would’ve preferred they signed someone who can stay off the IL.
No such person exists
OK, maybe someone a little more durable then. Taijuan breaks down likes he’s made in Taiwan. This could be a lost contract like the one the Mets gave Jed Lowrie. Two years for like seven games.
Is that a Taijuan pun?
Of course!
In a year that will feature six man rotations and limited work loads, this is a nice signing.
Walker gives them a legit 5 man rotation with Syndergaard still to return. People may be griping about not getting Bauer but the Mets are still set to have a top tier rotation without a possible albatross.
Got a good pitcher for a great price. I wanted him to go back to my Mariners but DiPoto clearly effed that up. He’s probably more of a national league guy anyway. Have a great year Mets and Mets fans
Thanks, Benji. We still need to package Nimmo & Gsellman for a real CF. Nimmo is a real zero.
Winner of 2021 free agency is Walker. Mets clearly overpaid. This dude is awful… a thrower.
He has lower career ERA than Bauer, is 2 years younger and cost $80 million less. This was a great move by the Mets, I’m sorry you’re too stupid to understand this
I’m not sure you can call other people stupid after typing out a comment like that.
24TheKid, When all else fails, these people resort to career ERA to “prove” their point.
You can make 2 quality 5 man rotations out of this crew
A weak signing compelled by other foolish failures by this dismal FO.
Alderson had the best starter in the game, a 42 WAR nucleus to work with, numerous tradable assets, and $100m to add to payroll in 2021 even after Stroman took the QO and various arb awards were settled. He failed to get any of the 4 top FAs. He added one star, at a position they already had filled, cheaply—when Arenado was available at a position of real need.
With everything he had to work with Cohen kept Alderson, who hired Jared Porter, and was unable to make the Mets clearly better than the Braves—let alone anywhere near the Dodgers or Padres.
Defense hasn’t improved over the Mets abysmal recent seasons. That’s shocking malfeasance. When’s the last time a team with defense as bad as the Mets won a World Series?. Go by record and Taijuan Walker is Jose Quintana, but a lot less durable, and from desperation the Mets had to risk a 3 year deal. Alderson finally amassed some depth after failing at that for the last decade, but forgot to add the front line stars who win you the World Series.
What he really did was operate from fear, the fear of missing out on a wild card spot, a grave error when the rewards for winning the division are typically significant even to the point of cutting out a round of playoffs.
Alderson was the best Cohen could do, this is the best Alderson could do, and it was hardly possible to do worse. And Luis Rojas, who can’t explain clearly the simplest concepts, is somehow managing this team, a sports team in the largest market in North America..
For the love of god, how did this nonsense happen?
Tough crowd unless the Mets spends $300M on payroll.
it is like they have a budget like the other 29 teams do in this league.
I think Cohen did well for his first year as an owner. Remember, he picked Alderson, to show some respect and love from MLB / owners. The Lindor trade was brilliant . When you have a superstar available like Lindor, even if it”s money dump, you have to pull the gun and get him. Arenado, has a great glove, but his batting average and power numbers are not the same as when his swinging at Coors field. If the DH is instituted in the NL, that would help the mets defense tremendously. Sandy, did a nice job by replenishing the farm and filled out depth in the rotation over all. Listen, Rome wasnt build in a day, and Cohen did say “it will take 3 to 5 yrs”. I agree hiring Rojas was a mistake. There were better choices besides Rojas, but Brodie the used car salesman, brought him in. I was surprised he wasnt dismissed with the new owner ship. Lets see how things roll and take it from there.
You truly are an idiot
never hire a 70 year old exec
So many words and yet you conveniently forget to mention the acquisition of Carrasco, who is probably still better than Bauer. Also, Walker signed a 2 year deal not 3.
Great deal. Wish the Jays had done it
Matz not cutting it already?
Matz will be a poor fit in the AL East. He’s going to get torched. Jays fans were disappointed with R.A. Dickey but at least he took the ball every time it was his turn. Matz will not give the Jays many innings.
The amount of Mets fans not happy with this deal is astonishing. Even if he was injured half the time, if he puts up a 4era or better, its worth 10 mil. And that’s if he only pitched half the year, if you get 2 healthy years of 4era or better then Walker got robbed. And that very well could happen
2 year $20 million for a guy that might have figured it out last season, if so then this deal is a going to be a major bargain. I don’t know how any Mets fans can be upset about this. It is low risk deal with a high reward.
2 year $20 million is nothing to a big market team like the Mets. Totally worth the risk.
i know the Wilpons were cheap, but how did they leave them with so much space?
I helps when $20 Million falls off the payroll due to Steroids use for 2021.
New owner Steven Cohen is also much more wealthy and said he wants to spend money in the roster. Mets are loaded
They are definitely loaded. Just not with talent.
Since the Mets seemingly want to have 175 men on their roster, they now need to go sign Bermudah Jones and Saskatchoowan Hildebrand, just to keep the silly name-signing going.
They do have a Hildenberger if that helps…
Saskatchewan— my home province.
I believe Throatwobbler Mangrove is available
Lol FIP is an overrated statistic and not the best way to judge pitchers.
Agreed. FIP is good, but you can’t just look at ONE statistic. For ONE season. Gotta put the whole picture together too. Like Taijuan’s wife is such a valley girl she’s probably so stoked to move to New York. Will probably make Taijuan happy and play good who knows
Overpay
If the Padres and the Mets do not go to the WS in the next few years they have mortgaged their futures. And yes I know both are in the NL. All I am saying is they are spending like their is no tomorrow.
What are you talking about? Neither is going over the soft cap, or is doomed to go over the soft cap.
The Padres have been smart about their payroll and still have a good farm system. The Mets haven’t mortgaged anything, but have probably blown half their window—which is 2021-2022.
That was the crime. They needed to go all-in for the next two years, but Alderson seems to have no idea that most of the team will or can depart after 2022.
This is not it. The Met have so many cheap good players and now have the richest owner in baseball. They will compete for the next 5 years.
So are you suggesting they just never attempt to compete?
With prior ownership,yes .Now with An owner ready to spend,they should be in the thick of things for many years
Oh I agree with that, I’m more asking if he thinks they should have just given up this season instead of “mortgaged their future” like he says they have.
They will compete of course but the way he (the owner) is throwing out money and on older veterans all it takes is injuries and a player having a bad year. Look you are kidding yourself if you think they are better than the Braves. There defense is suspect at best at 2b and 3b. Alonzo did not hit like I thought he would and probably everybody else thought he would hit. The pitchers made adjustments against him and he failed to make adjustments. Money does not win a championship.
Law of averages say if you offer contracts to everyone someone is bound to say “yes”
Cannot argue with that.
I really thought the Jays would have signed one of Walker or Paxton. This leaves Odorizzi as the only remaining decent starter but I suspect Shatkins will shy away from Jake’s asking price after getting burnt by Roark’s veteran contract.
The Jays would be better off taking a chance on Cole Hamels at this point.
Some of the comments are hilarious. Jose Quintana got 1/8m despite being a far better pitcher than Walker. 300 more innings from 2017 through 2020 for Quintana., a better FIP, better peripherals…
All Walker has is a fluke ERA in 2020 to mask his 4.56 FIP in 53 innings, and for that, despite his 70 innings pitched over the last 3 seasons, total, the Mets handed him 2/20m with the possibility of another 10m going out the door.
Over the last 4 seasons, which is the most that projection systems use, Walker probably has the worst record of any starter in the $8m-12m tier. Even the upside of Robbie Ray (1/8m) with 12.1 k/9 since 2017 dwarfs Walker’s.
This is so Mets. They finally have money but get caught completely out and get jacked up by the likes of Bradley and Walker, and get beat on Rosenthal by, get this, the A’s.
Seems like you have all the answers. When do you interview for a GM job?
@whynot He probably wouldn’t be qualified without any sexual harassment accusations on his record.
JackStrawb,
You have my vote for Mets GM and I have been following you around for quite some time.
Walker has always burned me in fantasy baseball so I soured on him many moons ago.
Alderson whiffed on the prime FAs and he overpaid on the 2nd tier guys. He is a dumpster diver who thinks he is smart because he saves $ but never wins. He undervalues defense and couldn’t plug holes at CF,LF, and 3B so he upgraded SS with a rental with Cano’s $ which was a position covered on the cheap with a controllable solid Gimenez.
Alderson who ripped off Bill Veeck with the nickname “Maverick” is a huge fraud and the top FAs played him like a fiddle. His last 2 hires the GM and former manager both were fired for incompetence or sexual stalking.
More than I expected, but it seems in line for 4th starters today. I thought maybe less guaranteed with options for more if he makes starts, innings pitched, etc.
But hey, my Mets look even better today! It’ll be interesting to see who ends up with better stats, Walker or Bauer.
Walker is a 5 starter. Fringe 5.
Basically a trash pile. Nice signing losers
Just imagine if Taijuan has a better season than bauer
Very possible because Taijuan isn’t too busy shooting off his mouth. I bet he has a better year than Stroman too.
Where do the Mets stand in regards to the CBT? While $20M over two years could be an overpay, if the Walker deal does not put them over the $210M threshold then it makes quite a bit of sense. If the Mets are successful this year then they will need to exceed the CBT in 2022 to keep their core together so it makes sense to do what they can to stay below it in 2021 and become first year ‘offenders’ in 2022. (Everyone ‘knows’ the CBT will be carried over into the next CBA).
I’m guessing they offered something similar, if not slightly more to Odorizzi but he and his agent turned it down. That’s the one thing I have to admire about the Mets this offseason. They make what they believe is a fair offer to a free agent (JTR, Bauer, Springer, etc) and once they are rebuffed, they don’t wait around very long for a change of heart; they move quickly to Plan B and don’t look back. It seems like other teams like Toronto focus in on a player and if they are unable to sign him they use the excuse of ‘we did our best to bring him onboard.’ NY just moves on and finds someone else to fill their void. The Mets have put together an intriguing squad this year. If they can stay healthy, they should give Atlanta a run for their money.
Right now they are at 195M
They will compete of course but the way he (the owner) is throwing out money and on older veterans all it takes is injuries and a player having a bad year. Look you are kidding yourself if you think they are better than the Braves. There defense is suspect at best at 2b and 3b. Alonzo did not hit like I thought he would and probably everybody else thought he would hit. The pitchers made adjustments against him and he failed to make adjustments. Money does not win a championship.
This can apply to any team which plans to contend so your points are moot. Even great players can slump over a 60-game span in any season. Not spending money is sure way to NOT win championships.
Are you saying Alonzo is great? He had 1 good year so far. And you help make my point. The Yankees spend every year and they have won nothing. Tampa schools the Yankees almost every year with a 10% percent of the fraction the Yankees spend.
@cgoss the Yankees had 921 wins in the 2010’s, over 60 more than the Rays. Add what happened last season and they’re still better. So how exactly have the Rays schooled the Yankees almost every year? What is that based on?
From what I can gather, the Rays have a payroll of $46mm, Yanks are at $$185mm – where exactly are you getting ten percent? Huge discrepancy, but not ten percent. It’ll help your case if you just check the facts.
Yanks are 234-170 against the Rays all-time – how are they being schooled by them? Rays rocked them last year, but that has not been the case “almost every year”.
The numbers simply don’t support your statements.
Cgoss, If you look closely, you’ll see that Cohen is actually wrecking the Mets.
It’s my belief that if a team needs to make several big moves in one offseason, then they’re not really ready to contend (even if they make those signings). Generally, the big-money moves come later to complete the picture. It’s why the Phillies have so far failed with the “stupid money” approach that started with the Harper signing. There are too many holes to be filled and not much organizational depth. It’s like trying to build a team backward, The Dodgers were similar before they rebuilt their farm system and strengthened player development. Building a winner is a multi-layered process that takes time and patience.
An added problem for the Mets is Steve Cohen’s apparent desire to be a hero owner. His Twitter conversations with fans come off to me as meddlesome. He needs to make it be less about him and let his baseball people do the work. As it is, his wealth comes with some baggage on the free-agent market. Since it’s no secret he’s the richest owner in baseball, players and their agents will expect richer contracts from the Mets. As the new kid on the block, he will not be allowed to have a negative impact on player salaries. For this reason, he’ll have to pay more than other teams if he wants to reel in the Trevor Bauers. George Springers, or even Taijuan Walkers of the world.
Next winter will be a crucial one for the Mets. Lindor, Conforto, Syndergaard, and Stroman will all be free agents and will want big Cohen dollars. They also have to contend with the possibility of deGrom opting out. Meanwhile, Cano hops back onto the payroll for three more years. Fans will naturally expect all of these players to be re-signed in addition to acquiring additional high-priced players, which is not realistic.
By conservative estimates, the Mets would have to shell out $160 million per year to keep the six players for 2022. Add an additional $38M for Carrasco, McCann, May, and Walker and you’re at $200M for 10 guys. That’s without even touching pending arbitration settlements for Diaz, Nimmo, Lugo, Smith, Davis, McNeil, Alonso, Guillorme, and a few lesser players. Mets fans accused Van Wagenen of screwing the Mets, but this new regime is making it even worse with their reckless spending. Granted all of the Free-agent Mets won’t be signed next winter. All would be foolish to not test free agency.
Realistically the Mets are not keeping Lindor, Conforto, Syndergaard, and Stroman. Maybe two of them, but not all four and that comes with the caveat of deGrom not opting out. If they have to deal with that too then i think deGrom becomes priority #1 and Lindor (depending how he does) #2. The Mets may eat Cano’s salary next year if no DH in the National league. As much as they may want to keep everyone they won’t.
I would disagree with how robust the SS market is Lindor might not be my top priority. By my count there are atleast 7 AS potential shortstops with 5 being under 30 along with having your top prospect left being a SS due up in a year or two.
Conforto would be my number 2 (assuming a degrom opt out) because you have no OFs on the pipeline coming up, he is a fan favorite, and there is no really good young OF in free agency.
After that i would probably go Syndegaard because i think his market will be depressed due to injury concern even if he does well this year which i dont think he will be. First year back from TJS seems shaky so can get a nice discount on that
Then i would hit SS and/or Stroman.
I think Cohen is spending intelligently, not recklessly. He wasn’t going to go over what they felt was fair for Springer or Rosenthal. They opted for McCann instead of Realmuto. The Mets have been in on many, but they are not willing to overpay.
I believe McCann and Walker were their two most expensive signings. Lindor is a number for 2021, but doesn’t he basically net zero with Cano? Not sure that qualifies as overspending. When my favorite team picked up Sabathia, Texiera and Burnett prior to 2009, that was overspending. Those were the three largest k.’s signed that off-season. This isn’t the same to me.
2008-2009 offseason was the Yankees going all in spending a half billion $ on those 3 players and winning it all for that one World Series Championship but losing out on Mike Trout who they wanted whose pick they relinquished for Mark Teixeira.
I can still hear Sweeney Murti laughing about their spending spree and saying That’s What They Do.
Cey Hey16 hours ago
Next winter will be a crucial one for the Mets. Lindor, Conforto, Syndergaard, and Stroman will all be free agents and will want big Cohen dollars. They also have to contend with the possibility of deGrom opting out. …..By conservative estimates, the Mets would have to shell out $160 million per year to keep the six players for 2022. Add an additional $38M for Carrasco, McCann, May, and Walker and you’re at $200M for 10 guys.
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I believe that Syndergaards opt-out is AFTER 2022 (Cots), and I don’t see those 5 getting $160M, or $32M each. I’m thinking the numbers would be more like $30M, $18M, $15M, and $15M, with maybe $40M on a short contract for DeGrom, but again, not until after 2022.
I still have the Mets finishing 4th in the division. Good talent but if you look at their rotation it’s comprised of guys who are legitimately ALWAYS injured. IF they stay healthy maybe they’ll do well. But you’re asking 4 guys who are always injured to be healthy at the same time for a whole year. Huge optimistic gamble.
You have degrom, carrasco, and pederson that are pretty healthy records for 1-2 and potentially 3 or 4 depending on how you look at Stroman. then you have 4 guys “injury prone” pitchers battling for your 4-5 spot on the rotation with having a ton of depth of pitchers that are in the 4-5 range between Lucchesi, SRF (right handed matz basically), Montgomery, along with 2 solid pitching prospect waiting in the wings.
Pederson stinks and you might wanna check Carrasco’s stats bud. I don’t think the guy has ever made 30 starts in a year and I think the dude is coming off cancer recovery. And the depth pieces you just mentioned as potential fillers are mediocre guys. The entire rotation is made of glass. They have ONE guy who is good and actually makes 30 starts a year. Everyone else is either always injured or garbage. Meanwhile you have the Marlins over there with no freaking money and yet they’re like 15 deep in the rotation. But we’ll find out of course. But I’m pretty confident they’ll be down at least two starters before opening day hits.
you might want to check your entire staff then. Only 1 person on the entire staff has a 30 start in a season and that is the injury prone alcantara that did it once. your the injury prone Alcantara has 30 starts in 1 season. All of them are young and will most likely be on innings limits except for your injury prone pitcher. This will tax a very weak bullpen especially with all the loses they had.
If Peterson sucks what does that make Sixto? Damn near every stat for last year is worse than Peterson mainly because by the end of the regular season Sixto ran out of gas or they adjusted to him. He gave up 12 runs in 7 innings even his last start in the playoffs was 4 runs in 3 innings game. Peterson’s last 2 games 13 innings 2 earned runs abd this is with playing more games in the season.
Has anyone on the marlins proven they are a big time pitcher or are they flash in the pants? Sixto has potential and not taking that away but right now he is even behind the slotted Mets current number 4 pitcher. There are multiple pitcher including in heir depth that they have gone full seasons and done very well.
They will be down 1 pitcher (Thor til June) but potentially down a 2nd because damn near every team loses one for a couple of weeks due to a young guy pushing too hard too quick after a layoff potentially Peterson, but they have depth for a 4th and 5th in the depth chart. The marlins “15 deep” outside the projected rotation are unproven, look pretty bad, or guys that couldnt even make the pirates roster with how bad they are.
oh and regarding carraso he had 30 starts in 15, 17, 18 and what would have been the equivalent of 30+ starts in 2020. 19 was his cancer surgery and he still made 12 starts and 11 relief appearances..
@Flyby Take a breath big fella damn. Look all I know is the Marlins rotation is better than the Mets…I mean hell they might have the deepest pitching staff in all of baseball. And I still stand corrected on all my points. I mean you’re referencing Carrasco’s 30 start seasons from years ago. I agree with the Marlins youth and limitations and such, but some of their best arms aren’t even up yet. And that is insane to think about. We’ll see, but I think the Mets are toast next season
@Flyby: Chemo850 is a troll. Look at their comments in this thread. Save your breath. The Mets could trade Jeurys Familia for Mike Trout and Chemo850, MarlinsFanBase, and a handful of others would still bash them.
The Mets hate is so odd to me when you consider that we haven’t really been good enough to hate for a really long time and don’t really have any hateable players (Cano, maybe? I guess if you care about steroids). In fact, a bunch of the players are really likeable (deGrom, McNeil, Alonso, Dom Smith, Thor, etc). I mean, there are people on this board who talk about Brandon Nimmo like he kicked their dog. It’s pathetic.
But anyway, my thesis is basically don’t waste your breath on this clown.
It’s not about the Mets organization, rct…it’s about some constant obnoxious comments by some Mets fans who simply make the Mets fan base look bad. Every fan base has them, but the Mets ones are just going overboard lately. It’s obnoxious but people are people. People do not hate the Mets, they are just responding to certain individuals.
@rct Mets fans are made fun of for obvious reasons so don’t play naive. You clowns talk like you’ve actually won a world series in the last 30 years and you’ve been terrible while sporting incredibly high payrolls while crying that the payroll isn’t high enough. And mind you, for as bad as the Mets have been on the field, they’ve also somehow sported an absolute circus in their front office. From hiring an agent with zero GM experience who proceeded to trade for a known steroid user who subsequently failed another test, to hiring another known cheater in Beltran, to then harboring multiple folks within the org acussed of sexual harassment. DUDE get real how Mets fans not suppose to be hated? Team is garbage with zero morals to boot.
If the team is garbage, why does PECOTA project them finishing with the 4th best record in baseball, and winning the division?
Draft Kings has them at over 90 wins, good for sixth best.
Please clarify, based on your comments this sounds like easy money. Bet the house on the under. Please bring some facts or support to your take.
Further, the Mets have been mocked for not spending money prior to 2021, where are you getting your information about having one of the highest payrolls? Show me where that has been the case the past ten years.
@rct I have only started putting the Mets down after Mets fan keep on saying they would win the WS and are better than the dodgers aka MetsFan22. Also as a Nats fan I’ve realized no one can take any smack in NL East, I made fun of the Mets offseason after it was expected to sign 2 marquee FA’s. Then Mets fan cry and moan and say we still better than dodgers.
@Chemo850: Thanks for proving my point, that you’re simply obsessed with hating the Mets.
Just a few points:
-they’ve only had ‘incredibly high payrolls’ the last few years. The knock on them for about a decade was that they weren’t spending enough and had cheap owners. So irrational hatred +1 for you
-‘hiring an agent with zero GM experience’. This is hateable… how? Irrational hate +1.
-‘proceeded to trade for a known steroid user’. Literally every team in baseball has had steroid users on their roster. Who cares? +1.
-‘hiring another known cheater in Beltran’. This is a complete lie. Beltran was hired on November 1, 2019. The Athletic’s investigative report on Astros cheating was published on November 12, 2019 and up until then, literally no one cared about it. Beltran was not a ‘known cheater’ when they hired him. When they, along with everyone else, found out he was cheating, guess what? THEY FIRED HIM. Chalk this one up as more irrational hatred.
-‘Harboring multiple folks accused of sexual harassment’. Callaway was not accused until he was on the Angels. Porter, once accused, was **immediately fired**. You may need to look up the word ‘harboring’.<