Though the lockout prevented the Rule 5 Draft from taking place in its usual December timeslot, the R5 will happen at some point once the transactions freeze is over, thus continuing one of baseball’s oldest traditions. At a time when competitive balance is at the forefront of labor talks between the league and the MLBPA, the Rule 5 Draft has long served as a vehicle for players to gain opportunities on new teams, and to prevent clubs from hoarding young talent. While the specifics and procedures of the event changed greatly over the years, the Rule 5 Draft has existed in one form or another since 1892, becoming a staple of the offseason even if often overshadowed by bigger winter transactions featuring proven MLB stars.
And yet, the Rule 5 Draft tends to jump into the headlines whenever one of the picks ends up becoming a notable contributor to his new team. Last year’s draft, for example, was a particularly strong class that saw Garrett Whitlock (Red Sox), Akil Baddoo (Tigers), and Tyler Wells (Orioles) all deliver strong rookie seasons. Both the modern rules of the draft and the increased focus on prospect value make it less likely that a true superstar minor leaguer will slip through the cracks of the Rule 5, though that doesn’t stop teams from dreaming that just maybe, their next Rule 5 pick will end up being the next Roberto Clemente.
Like clockwork, Clemente’s name is inevitably mentioned every year around Rule 5 time, as the Pirates legend is certainly the most prominent player to ever be selected in the relative modern era of the R5. (Hall-of-Famers Christy Mathewson and Hack Wilson were also Rule 5 picks, though both players had already debuted in the majors prior to their selection.) Even in Clemente’s day, the Rule 5 Draft’s procedures were different than they are now, as Clemente was eligible to be selected due to his status as a “bonus baby.”
From 1947 to 1965, MLB had a rule in place stipulating that if any amateur player signed a contract with a bonus greater than $4K, that player had to remain on his team’s big league roster for two full seasons. If that player wasn’t on his new team’s active roster, he was eligible to be selected in the Rule 5 Draft.
This is exactly what happened to Clemente, signed by the then-Brooklyn Dodgers in February 1954 at age 19. Signed for a $10K bonus and a $5K salary, that type of money in 1954 alone put Clemente on the radar of other teams, and international scouts were already well aware of Clemente’s potential. The Braves reportedly offered Clemente a much larger bonus, but he opted to stick with the Dodgers since he had already verbally agreed to their deal.
However, even with all of this known interest in Clemente, the Dodgers didn’t put him on their 25-man roster. Brooklyn had won the last two National League pennants, and with the team aiming to finally break through and win the World Series, the Dodgers felt they couldn’t afford to have an untested rookie filling a roster spot. Clemente was instead assigned to the club’s Triple-A affiliate in Montreal, as the Dodgers seemingly just crossed their fingers that they could sneak him through the Rule 5 field.
In a 2019 piece for The Athletic, Stephen J. Nesbitt unraveled some of the mythology surrounding Clemente’s brief Dodgers tenure. The popular version of the story is that Montreal tried to shield Clemente from rival scouts by limiting his playing time and benching him whenever he had a good game, or removing him from the lineup if he had a big hit early in a game. However, SABR researcher Stew Thornley noted that the right-handed hitting Clemente was almost never deployed against right-handed pitching, so a strict platoon could have been more to blame for Clemente’s lack of playing time than any attempt from the Dodgers to try and “hide” him.
Besides, while Clemente hit only .257/.286/.372 in his 155 plate appearances with Montreal, his raw ability was hard to miss. (Clemente was also on fire while playing winter ball in Puerto Rico around the time of the R5.) The Pirates took clear notice, and since they had the first pick of the 1954 Rule 5 Draft, Clemente was quickly Pittsburgh-bound that offseason. If the Dodgers’ strategy was indeed to just hope that other teams would ignore such a prominent prospect, the bet didn’t pay off.
As Nesbitt notes, longtime Dodgers GM Buzzie Bavasi has told a few different stories in regard to why or how Brooklyn lost Clemente, such as Pirates GM Branch Rickey backing out of a gentleman’s agreement to not take Clemente in the Rule 5 Draft. In another version, Bavasi claimed the Dodgers signed Clemente solely to keep him away from the arch-rival Giants, and eventually direct him via the R5 to an also-ran team. Bavasi also said in an e-mail to Thornley in 2005 that Jackie Robinson personally told the front office that adding Clemente to the team and removing a white player from the roster “would be setting our program back five years.”
All of Bavasi’s claims seem to only generate more questions than answers, and yet the end result was still Clemente in a Pirates uniform. In the short term, losing Clemente didn’t hurt the Dodgers, as the team continued being a perennial contender and won four World Series titles between 1955-65. As well, Clemente took some time to fully adjust to the majors, hitting a modest .289/.311/.395 with 26 home runs over his first five seasons and 2560 plate appearances with Pittsburgh.
Needless to say, however, Clemente is an awfully big “one that got away.” One can only imagine how much more successful the Dodgers would have been with Clemente in their lineup, especially after he broke out into true stardom. From 1960-72, Clemente hit .329/.375/.503 with 214 home runs while playing peerless right field defense and unleashing arguably the best outfield throwing arm in baseball history on many a hapless baserunner. If Bavasi did count on Clemente being suppressed on a losing team, that plan backfired — the Pirates ended becoming much more competitive during Clemente’s tenure, highlighted by World Series championships in both 1960 and 1971.
It could be that losing Clemente inspired the Dodgers to take a bit more care with their next “bonus baby” player. The next season, Brooklyn signed another promising youngster to a hefty $14K bonus and stuck with him on the MLB roster for the next two seasons. Like Clemente, it also took this player some time to become a star, yet the Dodgers’ patience more than paid off as Sandy Koufax started dominating batters.
Clemente’s legend perhaps looms largest on December 31, as it was on this day in 1972 that Clemente and three other passengers died during a plane crash off the coast of Puerto Rico. The flight was a relief mission intended to bring aid to Nicaragua following an earthquake, and Clemente wanted to personally supervise the delivery to ensure that the goods would reach their intended destination. Clemente was only 38 years old at the time of his tragic passing.
phillies give me depression
casual dodgers L
Please, Hammer. Don't hurt 'em.
I think the Dodgers made the right decision. Who really wants to imagine Clemente as a Dodger anyway?
Chipper Jones' illegitimate kid
It’s nice to get articles about the forgotten guys in history. I hope to hear more about this Roberto Clemente fella.
The Baseball Fan
Clemente will go down as an all time great. Puerto Rican’s (like my family) idolize this guy as a player. He was a good man too. So tragic that he died young…
Jean Matrac
The Baseball Fan (Doesn’t like the Cubs):
Hey not just Puerto Ricans. I’m a total white guy (old as well), and I idolized Clemente as well. He was my favorite ballplayer when I was young, during his playing gays.
The Baseball Fan
Tad2b13- good. You have a great taste in baseball in that case.
mookiesboy
me too. I urge you to read Clemente by David Maraniss
johnsilver
Clemente will never be forgotten by some. i remember when it came over the radio that his charity flight had gone down that fateful new year’s. A sad day indeed.
The Baseball Fan
Unfortunately, I did not have the luxury of being alive during Clemente’s era. It must have been astonishing news of his passing
mookiesboy
First player that i watched play to die
It was shocking and scary for an 9 year old
GareBear
I’m sure there were more that died in my lifetime but I can only compare it to Oscar Taveras, the first player I remember to die during their playing career. As a royals fan, hearing his friend Yordano’s passing was similarly jarring. But the one that still looks largest for me was Roy Halladay. Completely out of the blue, growing up I tried to emulate his wind-up and I viewed him as the pinnacle of pitching. Still hard to believe he’s gone.
Jean Matrac
I remember that day very well. Clemente was my favorite player. I was young enough to think I was somehow jinxed, My favorite singer was Otis Redding, who died in a plane crash about 4 years earlier. I was so glad Clemente got his 3,00th hit during his last game.
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The Pittsburgh news stations covered it exclusively.
User 1471943197
And I hope to forget about morons like you… Clemente one of the greatest and a true humanitarian….I grew up watching him play right field at Forbes field….ariba ariba..the Great One
agrorolm
@Chipper, your comment shows your complete ignorance in baseball history (or in World History). Otherwise, you were trying to be be cinic or, (and hope it isn’t the case) shows your racism towards latino players. Clemente is idolized not only in Puerto Rico, but all Caribbean countries, and most spanish speaking countries. For your aknowledge, there is a Roberto Clemente award in MLB, there is a Roberto Clemente day in Pittsburg. Lots of venues, schools, stadiums, avenues and streets bear his name. Lots of latin players wore and wear no. 21 as a tribute to him. Now, to teach you some history, do you know that the first noticeable puertorrican player to play in MLB wasn’t Clemente, but Hiram Bithorn? That was when latins and afroamerican players weren’t allowed to play MLB. Teams didn’t notice because his last name sounded european (or american), and he was white skinned (one third of Puerto Rico’s population is white, so you to know). He pitched for the Chicago Cubs and Bill Wrigley knew all about that, but he fooled MLB exexutives, while Bithorn wasn’t too cool about it. By the way, Puerto Rico’s main baseball venue bears his name, Hiram Bithorn. For your sake, if you ever come to Puerto Rico, try not to make those type of comments here, just in case. Ufff, how about these milenials…
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Chipper may have his faults but in his defense his was clearly an attempt at wry humor which evidently was not evident to some.If someone posts on this site I would find it hard to believe that they do not know something about Roberto Clemente even if they are not Pittsburgh Pirate fans.
dudecubs
RIP Betty White
tstats
I coulda sworn she was immortal
beknighted
It’s gonna be almost as sad a day when Keith Richards goes.
bcjd
Pretty sure Keith Richards pickled his insides with formaldehyde and cocaine so he can never die.
RazorRamonie
Sandler will be the worst week ever
BeansforJesus
I remember hearing a new Prince song right before he passed away. After, I heard a new Bowie song, then he passed away.
I was hoping to hear a new Adam Sandler song after that, unfortunately it didn’t happen.
mike156
Fun, interesting piece. $4K bonuses being consequential. Boy, have times changed.
BeansforJesus
Rule 5 pick costs are pretty close to what they were back then based on inflation.
Times haven’t really changed. Why pay another owner more than you need to when you can spread the extra cost around for the consumers.
$4k in 1950 is $47k now. A $0.25 hotdog should be under $2. Every cost just gets moved around until it’s paid by someone else. And that’s after increased efficiency and improved supply chain practices.
Things have changed… Not for the better
Edit: better is subjective, so depending on who you ask it could vary.
bucsfan0004
Plenty of articles/stories on Clemente. Nice to see MLBTR do a piece on him on December 31st.
The Baseball Fan
Rip
Pete'sView
I had never heard this story before, but there’s no doubt that Clemente was one of the 5 greatest players I’ve ever seen (Aaron, Mays, Bonds and George Brett, The other four).
Monkey’s Uncle
That’s a pretty great list and I’m jealous. Clemente died less than 2 weeks before I was born.
Pete'sView
He was great in everything he did—on and off the field.
bucsfan0004
Nice list. If i made a list of the 5 greatest players i’ve seen in person, i’m guessing at least four of them were juicers.
Jean Matrac
Pete’sView:
I eventually wound up living in an AL city (DC) when I turned 13, when most of those guys played, so I never got to see Mays or Aaron. Luckily for me, I got to see Clemente, who was my favorite player, in 1972 when the WS came to nearby Baltimore.
But being in an AL city did allow me to see guys like Yogi Berra, Mickey Mantle, Whitey Ford, Frank Robinson, Brooks Robison, George Brett, Carl Yastrzemski, Eddie Murray, Tony Oliva, Jim Palmer, Rod Carew, Al Kaline, and Harmon Killebrew, I just missed seeing Ted Williams by 1 year.
retire21
‘71 WS.
Pete'sView
You saw some great ones!
Black_Pearl
Great list. Really interesting to think about. For me it’s Nolan Ryan, Cal Ripken Jr., Barry Bonds, Ken Griffey Jr. and Albert Pujols.
BPax
I got to see Griffey up close for all those Mariner years. He had the five tools with no hole in his game. He would always do something in the game that dazzled, often on defense. He’s in my top five for sure.
Monkey’s Uncle
As as lifelong Pirates fan, I still didn’t know a good amount of this story. Thank you for a fantastic article Mark, and on a website with some great writing talent, this is one of the best I’ve ever read here.
The Baseball Fan
Note: Clemente was a man of his word. He had real honor and Decency. As Mark writes, “ The Braves reportedly offered Clemente a much larger bonus, but he opted to stick with the Dodgers since he had already verbally agreed to their deal.” This shows the true, honest man that he was.
Samuel
Yes, it was Branch Rickey that stole Clemente from the Dodgers. He knew the young man’s talent. Couldn’t believe the Dodgers left him out there.
He built ‘The Cardinal Way’ for playing baseball, then ‘The Dodger Way’ of playing baseball – all of which translated into playing strong fundamentals which in time became accepted around the sport (same as Paul Brown did in pro football……one of Bill Belichicks primary influences). Rickey built the structure that culminated in the 1960 Pirates Championship team.
As American demographics were changing in the late 1950’s with people leaving the industrial northeast for the (warmer) south and west, MLB started talking about expansion. Rickey wanted to start a 3rd major league (The Continental League). He was thwarted of course. However, Lamar Hunt was starting a pro football league to compete with the NFL. He met and communicated with Rickey numerous times on how to go about it. Rickey saw pro sports broadcasting going from radio to TV. As that took place there would be a large disparity in the TV money due to different market sizes. Rickey wanted his baseball league to have a national TV contract and share all revenues equally, else there wouldn’t be a level playing field. He convinced Hunt that was the way to go. Hunt did. When Hunt’s AFL merged with the NFL, Commissioner Pete Rozelle convinced the NFL owners that there should be one league-wide TV contract with shared revenues. That meant all teams in the league were on fairly equal financial footing. It’s also why as free agency came about MLB became the 2nd sport to the NFL in fan popularity, and is to this day. And it’s why to this day people on this board argue about large, medium, small market teams and revenue sharing.
JerryBird
Samuel – This is really good. Thanks for sharing. Happy New Year!
paule
A couple of years ago, I found a Sporting News article written shortly before the Rule 5 draft that year. Clemente was the number one prospect. if Branch Rickey hadn’t drafted him, the next team on the list would have.
The world owes a lot to Rickey of course for signing Jackie Robinson. His pushing for farm teams made the Cards a championship contender for many years. On the other hand, many of his trades (or sales) were pitiful–Johnny Mize, Eddie Stanky, Joe Medwick etc. As long as he made money on a deal, he would do it. Getting Roe and Cox was one of his few trading successes. He gave Pete Reiser to Brooklyn, either expecting to get him back from McPhail or less likely thinking that he would eventually be the Dodgers’ GM.
SalaryCapMyth
@Samuel. That was some really specific sports history. Thanks for sharing.
LordD99
History says when teams start making successful Rule 5 picks, the rules will be changed to make it more difficult.
Todd Kemmerer
Like small markets like the pirates spending big in the draft and big markets didntblike it . Pirates 5mil for Josh bell in 2nd rd
DarkSide830
to be fair, the bonus baby rule was so terribly broken that it was that that needed fixing.
Texas Outlaw
One of the all time greats. Wish I could have seen some of these guys play. I didn’t get into baseball until 1989 so missed a lot. The greats of my youth were Griffey, Ripken, Ryan, Thomas, Maddux and Fred McGriff.
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
Wow… So had Clemente NOT been an honorable man, he and Hank Aaron would have been paired…
bazbal
Not only that, but the Braves had been trying to sign Willie Mays for more than a year before the Giants outbid them. So it could have been a Braves outfield of Aaron, Mays and Clemente..
jimmyz
Clemente and May’s did play together in Puerto Rico on the Santurce Crabbers in 1954-55.
agrorolm
Sad to know about Robinson’s jealousy (as it was) and trying to block Clemente. Truth is Jackie Robinson wasn’t half the player Clemente was.
agrorolm
Cangrejeros de Santurce !!!
User 589131137
I want to know more about Jackie Robinson throwing shade on a potential Clemente impact in the big leagues…
heinie manush
Yeah, I need this explained???
…”Jackie Robinson personally told the front office that adding Clemente to the team and removing a white player from the roster “would be setting our program back five years.”
Braves20
Ironically in much later years the Robinson family threw cold water on the movement to have Clemente’s 21 retired league wide along with 42.
agrorolm
Sad to know about Robinson’s jealousy (as it was) and trying to block Clemente. Truth is Jackie Robinson wasn’t half the player Clemente was.
fivepoundbass
When I read that paragraph, it sounds like the writer is speaking ill of Bavasi, as he gave three different reasons for losing Clemente. I wouldn’t take much stock in the quote.
It’s possible that Robinson didn’t want the team to drop a veteran to make room for a rookie. If the veteran was white, then the statement might be factual…though it doesn’t mean that Robinson meant “don’t drop the white guy for the Puerto Rican”. Tossing race into conversations where it has no bearing is nothing new.
welchfirm@aol.com 2
Your point about the ambiguity in the quote is well taken. It did make me realize, however, that if we overlook the different burdens racism put on each man, we cannot fully appreciate their greatness. The “deal” between Rickey and Robinson was that Robinson would carry and do everything he could to minimize the pressure integration placed on the majority white culture. It was Ali who took that issue on. With Clemente, in the interim period, as someone who followed baseball quite closely in his early years, he was victimized by vestigial racism that interpreted his every injury and at times his very grace along racist lines hurting his reputation for many years. I, too, am grateful for this historical review. Things look so different as time passes.
DarkSide830
didnt know about the Braves part. just another classy move by one of the classiest sports players ever. shame he had to go soon.
allweatherfan
Great story. Thank you MLBTR.
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I second that emotion MLBTR.
norcalguardiansfan
Wait, Christy Mathewson and Hack Wilson were rule five picks? I didn’t know that. I didn’t know the rule five went back that far. I’d love to hear more about the “old-timely” rule five.
norcalguardiansfan
Sure enough. Just looked it up. The Giants signed Mathewson and assigned him to Norfolk. The Reds drafted him in the rule five, apparently before he ever threw a pitch, professionally. The Reds then sold Christy short by trading him back to the Reds for Amos Rusie, who was also a Hall of Famer but was at the end of his career. Mathewson never threw a pitch in the minors. Imagine how baseball history might have been different if the Reds had had Big Six during his peak years.
DarkSide830
Mathewson wad actually traded during his final season to the Reds to be their manager, but made final start vs old foe Mordecai Brown. with the Reds to finish out his career.
norcalguardiansfan
Yes. He was apparently on the Reds twice but only played/managed at the d we mc of his career.
norcalguardiansfan
Ok, one last thing. I also learned that Mathewson was managing the Reds at age 37 when the US joined WWI. It was in the middle of the season but he insisted on quitting and joining the military. His wife was pissed but he didn’t back down. I believe he saw action and was wounded. His managing career ended – never suited up again.
Remarkable guy, Mathewson.
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That was a sad situation with Mathewson.He died in his 40’s I believe,and I know for a fact that he had been gassed in the war.I am pretty certain that the damage done to his lungs was very significant and eventually led to his death.
DarkSide830
yeah, spent a lot of time at one of those sorts of clinics they had around that time.
A'sfaninLondonUK
Mathewson’s story is equally sad and incredible – one brother died from suicide, the other also from TB. He was injured in a training accident in France rather than in engagement. Had the BCG been widely available at the time he might have survived. He also gave credence to the journalistic enquiries into the Black Sox scandal.
Remarkable life for someone who died in his mid 40s….
Highest IQ
He was a great player and person. Ending his career with exactly 3,000 hits is something else.
Jean Matrac
Actually he should have had 3,001 hits. Earlier in his last game, a hard hit ball was misplayed and Clemente reached thinking he had #3,000. So did the crowd, and the score board operator, since it was not a routine play, and should have been ruled a hit. But the official scorer ruled it an error. Clemente later doubled to remove all doubt.
retire21
Wasn’t that the previous game, on Friday night? I wanna say Luke Quay was the official scorer. I’m probably wrong.
Jean Matrac
Yeah, I think you’re right about it being the next to last game. I looked it up, and he’s credited with playing the last game, but he had 0 PAs without a BB, so I’m guessing he never went to bat. You got me as to who the official scorer was.
whyhayzee
The official scorer look away? No wonder he missed the call. Okay, bad joke. Clemente is the best player I ever saw play. An elegant athlete and equal as a person.
JoeBrady
I watched Clemente in the WS v BA. A guy on 2nd, one out (IIRC), and the batter drives one to the deepest part of RF, in the corner. Clemente catches it full speed towards the wall, and wheels and throws it to 3rd.
My immediate reaction was that it was stupid to throw the ball since it was impossible to get the runner tagging up from 2nd. Clemente’s throw missed him by maybe a foot. I was, and still am, stunned. That was 50 years ago, and it is still the best throw I’ve ever seen.
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Joe,he once threw out Lou Brock at home plate after Brock tagged up on a ball hit to the wall.He would routinely throw out runners at first base.
Treehouse22
Thanks for that.
Vizionaire
the art of hitting singles and doubles and stealing bases has been lost in this home run craze.
Jean Matrac
Yeah, I’ve heard people diminish what Clemente did, because he didn’t hit a ton of HRs. But if Clemente played today, and was instructed to swing for the fences, he would have impressed people with his power. he could do whatever he wanted, and was the most complete ballplayer I ever saw. But he adapted his game to the cavernous Forbes Field, and was extremely productive.
retire21
Indeed. More hits in the 1960s than anybody.
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Actually he did hit 28 in 1966 when the Pirates needed some power so it proves his greatness.
paule
More diminished for lack of walks than for homers. But great at everything else.
fivepoundbass
Nobody cares how much a guy with a .317 career BA walked. A single counts the same towards OBP as a walk does, and twice as much towards OPS.
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Clemente was a confident enough hitter and strong enough that he did not see a lot of pitches that he did not like.He did not try to pull every pitch either.Manny Sanguillen was even more so,as he never saw a pitch that he did not think that he could not get a hit on.
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Paule-Actually,walks are revered much more now than years ago.Unless your name was Eddie Yost,whose nickname was “The Walking Man”,or you were the leadoff hitter,they were not all that credited.It was basically a bad thing to do if you were a 3,4,or 5 hitter,especially if men were on base.Also,another reason was because pitchers generally had much better control as they threw much less harder and threw many more innings.
Juiced Balls
Obviously the Dodgers are a model org now, which is probably why it’s so funny to hear stories like this. Pedro is another one that got away.
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I started following the Pirates very closely after they won the WS in 1960.It wouldn’t have happened if Casey would have used Whitey Ford as his game #1 starter.Clemente was an absolute joy to watch.Great players like him are worth whatever the teams can bear to pay.His arms would be going every which way when he ran.You could tell that he was joyful when he was playing baseball.His throwing arm was easily the best that I have seen.His body was just one big muscle.His hitting mechanism was not to be copied or taught,but he got away with it because he was physically strong.I consider myself very fortunate to have grown up following players like Roberto Clemente.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Being an old timer, I saw all those National League HOF players at old Connie Mack Stadium in Philly. Had the A’s not moved to KC when I was eight years old, I could have added seeing Mickey Mantle and Ted Williams to my list.
Back in the mid-’50s and early ’60s before expansion, when there just eight NL teams, no matter what team came to town to play the Phillies, they had a star(s). Even the lowly Cubs (Ernie Banks) and Pirates (Clemente).
But my favorite visiting player was Stan Musial. I watched him hit with his unique batting stance and wondered, how can anyone could hit in that position?
Yep, those were the days: Mays, Aaron, Mathews, Robinson (Frank and Jackie), Banks, Clemente, Musial, Cepeda, McCovey, Spahn, Koufax, Drysdale, Roberts, Ashburn, Snyder, Hodges, Pee Wee, Campanella, et al
mannycoimbre
On behalf of Pancho Coimbre and family, thank you for writing this story about Roberto Clemente.
We hold Roberto Clemente near and dear as not only was he a great friend of Pancho, Pancho was his mentor and idol. Clemente grew up watching my great uncle play in the Puerto Rican leagues until he eventually played for different leagues to include playing in Mexico, Venezuela, and eventually state side in the Negro Leagues.
After retiring, Pancho became a scout for the Pittsburgh Pirates. He was heavily involved in that Rule 5 draft that brought Clemente to the Pirates.
It is our hope to one day see Pancho inducted in the hall of fame alongside Roberto for all his contributions to the game. His stats weren’t too bad either. Lol.
If you want a history lesson on Pancho Coimbre, google it. You won’t be disappointed.
A'sfaninLondonUK
@mannycoimbre above.
Manny, thank you. That’s a brilliant story. Good luck in your quest
GarryHarris
Roberto Clemente had a strong arm but was often wild. Anyone old enough to have watched him regularly knows that.
The best arm for the 40s-50s was the Dodgers RF The Reading Rifle Carl Furillo.
retire21
I’m not going to cut Furillo down to make Roberto taller but RC was/is the Gold Standard in arm/throwing. Pretending that he’s 100% not is just that, pretending.
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I do not recall Clemente wildly throwing in general at all.Furillo I know had a fine arm,although I never saw him play,and Downtown Ollie Brown also had a very good one.
But there was only one Roberto.
User 1471943197
You must have been on some good drugs… Clemente didn’t have a wild arm…very accurate and one of the strongest in history
LLGiants64
Clemente as a Dodger. A few more world championships for the Dodgers. Clemente was always the piece that made the puzzle work. His clubhouse presence alone would have been worth wins.
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I think that Roberto got at least one hit in every WS game that he played.He was a fine clutch hitter.Someone once told me that if you ever have a chance to see someone who is the best at what they do,take it.Clemente was worth the price of admission every game that he played.And yes,he may very well have made the difference in those Dodger teams.
User 1471943197
Yes he hit in all 14 world series games that he played in
User 1471943197
If Clemente didn’t die, he wanted to play 3 or 4 more years. He wanted Stan Musials NL hit record. He was 38 when he sadly died, but he had the body of a man ten years younger. As a kid growing up and watching him play in the 1960s was one of my fondest memories. They used to have a knot hole club for kids. We were able to sit in right field and watch the great one.
Two memories stand out. The pirates were playing the Cardinals. Lou Brock was on first and Orlando cepeda was at bat. Clemente was playing more to right center. Forbes fields center field was 437 ft. They used to store the batting cage out there. Anyway cepeda hits one down the right field line. Brocks heading home. Clemente gets the richorchet and throws a line drive to the catcher. Brock was out by five feet. I swear to that ball was no more than 6 foot off the ground. 317 feet from the right field foul line to home.
Another memory was him getting called out on a third strike pitch. Roberto didn’t agree. With his famous Latin temper, he picked the ball up and threw it 437 feet over by the center field wall.
Also it was mentioned earlier in a comment that Clemente didn’t hit a lot of home runs. He had 246 in his career. But what stands out is that in 1966, Harry Walker asked him to him for more power and sacrifice his batting average. So the Great One responded as only he can. He hit 28 home runs, 127 RBI and batted 317 to win the MVP award. Truly one of the greatest. Ariba ariba
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Not sure how apropos my analogy is,but I was impressed with Terry Bradshaw’s arm in a similar manner.He could throw 40 yards on a straight line without needing to get much height on it at all.
But the best arm of all had to Bob Veale’s,who,according to Bob Prince,could throw a strawberry through a locomotive!
User 1471943197
Now there was a pitcher…I remember Lou Brock was batting….it was hot, humid and drizzling. Veales glasses was steaming up. Brock refused to get in the batters box till his glasses cleared up. Don’t blame him at all
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I remember that one too.First game I ever saw at Forbes Field was my ninth birthday in April 1962 and the Pirates beat the Mets to tie the 1955 Dodgers record of 10 straight wins at the start of the season..The next day Jay Hook and the Mets beat them,and it was the Mets first win ever.Veale started the game that I saw,and it had to be one of the first starts of his career.
User 1471943197
Hey Mendoza..your about four years older than me. I didn’t start following the buccos till 1965. But I do remember as a 5 year old in 1960, riding my little bike. My dad had gotten me a bumper that read, Beat’em bucs. Great memories growing up then, my friend.
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I knew that you were a young man!
That was the title of a song in Pittsburgh in 1960.The Bucs are going all the way,all the way,all the way,the Bucs are going all the way,all the way this year,Beat Em Bucs.
The times were simpler,that’s for sure.We didn’t know any different then,and the kids today only know what they know too.
Keep your pretty smile Ben.
User 1471943197
Mendoza..I can remember putting the transistor radio under the pillow and listening to the gunner and the possum when the BUCS played on the coast. I remember the Green weenie. Babushka night. Wasn’t it great being a kid and being a pirate fan. Watching the Great One. Willie, Maz.
Have a happy new year my friend
Mendoza Line 215
And you were smart enough to not put one but two transistor radios on separate occasions directly under the back seat window during the summer!
I lived in a great town during a great time when blueberry pies were only a nickel and at an age when I could eat all that I wanted!
You too young man.