There’s no indication when the 2022 season will start following a contentious set of labor negotiations that resulted in commissioner Rob Manfred canceling the first two series of the year. The general expectation is that further games are quite likely to be lost as well, given the acrimonious nature of talks to date.
On the topic of those negotiations, Blue Jays right-hander Ross Stripling lobbed some fairly eye-opening accusations toward ownership and the manner in which their proposal suddenly changed late in the game. Stripling tells Shi Davidi and Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet that, as the two sides spoke late Monday evening and into the early hours of Tuesday morning, MLB’s proposal suddenly included notable changes regarding the luxury tax. Stripling implies that the changes extend beyond mere alterations to the threshold levels and penalty rates — instead featuring completely new items that had not been previously presented.
“It got to be like 12:30 [in the morning] and the fine print of their CBT proposal was stuff we had never seen before,” says Stripling. “They were trying to sneak things through us, it was like they think we’re dumb baseball players and we get sleepy after midnight or something. … They pushed us to a deadline that they imposed, and then they tried to sneak some shit past us at that deadline and we were ready for it.”
Stripling went on to echo the sentiments broadcast by Giants lefty Alex Wood on Twitter yesterday, wherein Wood claimed that the reported optimism late Monday was “pumped to the media” by Major League Baseball as a public relations strategy. Wood and Stripling maintain that the players’ “tone” never changed Tuesday, as the league claimed via a statement from an anonymous spokesperson. Stripling, Wood, James McCann and several others have publicly stated that the union never felt the sense of optimism broadcast by the league and that MLB’s suggestions of a “change in tone” were an effort to cast blame on players for scuttling a deal at the last minute.
Stripling’s comments, to an extent, also mesh with concerns raised by union leader Tony Clark at yesterday’s press conference. Speaking in the wake of Manfred’s cancelation of games, Clark revealed that during the late stages of negotiations, the league sought to enact a series of rule changes for the 2023 season that would see defensive shifts limited, the size of bases expanded and the implementation of a pitch clock. While Clark noted that the players were not necessarily opposed, the fact that MLB raised them so late in the process left the union with little to no time to discuss them — an obvious point of consternation.
Stripling is hardly alone in his willingness to speak out and voice his displeasure with the manner in which negotiations transpired. Britt Ghiroli of The Athletic chronicled a series of player frustrations that were broadcast via social media, citing Wood, Evan Longoria, Anthony Rizzo, Michael Lorenzen, Kevin Pillar and others. As Ghiorli examines, the players’ ability to freely speak their minds — and share details like those laid out by Stripling, Wood and others — are fascinating new wrinkles to labor talks that did not exist prior to the social media age. While fans have understandably grown exhausted by the public jabs being traded (whether directly or via reports), the lack of any real momentum regarding a return to play and the general distrust between the parties only sets the stage for further exchanges of this nature.
I’m lethargic at this point to all this. I only clicked on this article to find out what “things” they tried to sneak in. Does anybody know?
We don’t care, Ross
There’s a lot here, but much of the same and the accusations are more than likely based on fact. But the comment about expanding the size of bases? Where did that come from and what is that about? Wondering how that improves the game
Cancel the season. Shove it in the ungrateful, spoiled, selfish, tone deaf players’ faces!!!
All of those adjectives describe the owners too. Don’t fool yourself into thinking that one side here wears the white hats and the other the black. These are millionaires arguing with billionaires.
Ah, your name is ironic, I see.
LOL…..Kudos capnfatback…..kudos,
I remember eating kudos watching games as a kid. I feel like it’s been that since we seen a game.
Owners instituted the lockout and MLB is a government sanctioned monopoly and are not bargaining in good faith. We could be watching ST under the old CBA until a new deal was agreed upon but MLB wanted to stiff arm players. THIS IS THE OWNERS FAULT. NOT THE PLAYERS.
Wrong. Owners had to lockout the players for many reasons. The biggest being that if they continued under the old agreement, the players would wait until middle or end of season to go on strike. That would cause cancellation of late season races and playoffs. The union did this exact thing back in the early/ mid 90’a.
bigjonliljon: You sir are wrong. It wasn’t inevitable that the players would strike. If the owners bargained in good faith it was very “possible” that a new CBA could’ve (would’ve) been reached w/o any of this needless drama. Please take notice of the 2nd letter in CBA. It’s B, which stands for Bargaining (in good faith) w the other party.
You don’t have to lock people out because they might strike.
Pfffft. They HAD to lock them out, so they won’t strike!
Missing revenue early in the season isn’t as large as the revenue earned in the post season. The players did this exact thing back in 94. I see no reason why the owners would risk them doing it again
Bigjon if it played out that way, then we would have to say it’s the player’s fault there is a work stoppage. But it didn’t play out that way. The owner’s locked the players out. Its the owners fault there is a work stoppage. Literally. They literally stopped the players from being able to work. Can’t even step on the property. You can list the reasons they did so until you are blue in the face; doesn’t change the fact this work stoppage is the owners fault.
Super low class right after the players gave back money to help the owners survive the pandemic.
I missed where the players gave back anything. I believe they filed a grevience.
Stymeedone I believe both are true statements. They “gave money back” by agreeing to prorated salaries for 2020 (contracts are signed per season, not per games. Any proration from there, for example signing a guy to the prorated minimum in August, is done against the scheduled number of games for said season. They could have stood firm on 100% salaries. Of course that would have led to a canceled2020 season) and by agreeing to a proration that was less than 1/162 per game in wages. They filed a grievance on the premise that MLB, once agreeing to a per game proration on 2020 salaries, intentionally dragged out the start of the season costing players money.
Voice of reason…You’ve been trolling for weeks on this. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Get a life bud.
Where’s your father when we need him
You do realize that the owners locked the players out, this isn’t a strike. But don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative
@thevoiceofinsanity
I’d love to shove a LOT MORE than that in your face -and I’m sure I’m not alone -you lunatic. Ahahahahaha!
In his press conference, Manfred claimed that “the concern about our fans is at the very top of our consideration list.”
Well that’s just a blatant lie.
What do you expect from that clown? Manfred is a broken tool, a scumbag puppet for the cheapskate owners who don’t care about the fans, they only care about profit.
I don’t expect squat from Manfred – that’s the problem. But I also didn’t expect him to take the most hated commissioner award away from Goodell this easily and quickly.
Manfred actually makes Bettman look competent — not an easy thing to do.
Completely agree. He is hired by the owners and responds only to the owners. We all know that and understand that. But if he genuinely cared about the fans and the game, they’d have encourage active negotiations all off-season.
I’m not here to say I blame Manfred for all this, but you can’t punch us fans in the face and then claim to be our friend. We’re not blind.
Edit: Someone above deleted their comment lol
it’s revealing that he often uses the word “industry” instead of “game”
It’s also revealing that he laughed while canceling games.
Was it a laugh, or more like a cackle?
the white cat in his lap was a nice touch
A monocle would completed the image.
When Manfred’s lips are moving it’s always a lie.
Manfred had a press conference yesterday.
Just curious.
Not true. Sometimes his lips move when he’s making out with men.
I’m to the point that I’m sick of this. I’m not saying the owners are totally in the right. But the players have totally lost it. They play a game that pays excellent money. They get paid whether they’re injured, or if they’re performance is poor. Doesn’t matter.
The players union asks from the beginning we’re ridiculous and aimed to make back what they feel they missed in the last 2 CBA’s.
The owners have more money and responsibilities on the line than just player payroll. Scouts, development departments , stadium employee, insurance, stadiums…. The list goes on.
Let the players union go build some stadiums and take in the responsibility’s to start they’re own teams/league if they want to be in charge and take the financial risks.
Until then, I’m to the point that I don’t even care if there’s a season. There’s so many more important issues in America than these spoiled brats.
Cancel the season. Let the players make no paychecks, let the owners make no money…. Then see how fast a deal gets done for the next 5 years and beyond
The fact that the players see ANYTHING proposed by the owners as something that they should get to trade off for something on their wish list is part of the problem here. On-field rules changes to improve the flow of the game and the entertainment value benefit BOTH the owners and players. That they can’t see that and instead want something in return for it needs to change. They’ve seen a pretty steady decline in prominence as far as major sports leagues go, and they need to understand that and break out of their little bubbles and see they’re going to preside over the complete collapse of their sport if they’re not careful. Their entire focus in all of this has been increasing player pay across all levels, with no thought to actual entertainment value or competitive balance whatsoever.
If you read the article you’d see that apparently the owners tried to sneak in the rules changes at the last minute. They weren’t brought up for discussion. I don’t blame the players for wanting time to discuss those changes instead of just blindly signing off on them.
I don’t understand why the owners are on this big campaign to have people love them and hate the players. It seems that every move the owners make, every statement they make, every proposal, is for public relations value and not to move the negotiations along. No one comes to the stadium to root for the owner, they come to root for the team and also for individual players. And that’s what the owners seem to want to destroy. It’s like McDonald’s going a big publicity campaign to make people hate hamburgers. It’s insane
That’s always been MLB’s move: try to turn public opinion against the players. There are too many in this thread willing to lap down that borax.
The players have been taking to Twitter and trashing the Owners. Bryce Harper for one has gave the flipped the fans the bird and suggested he might play overseas. Take the raises (which any sane union shoots for at a contract and has been offered) and play ball!
Because if they control the narrative they demonize the players and create public pressure for them to cave. It’s why you have so many casual fans not understanding the very important distinction bt this and the 94 strike: that the players have never once said they would not play under the existing CBA until a new deal is reached and that the owners are 100% responsible for all lost games
The owners want the fans to pressure the players to take a contract skewered in the club’s favor. They knew the players would balk at the proposal. Owners would like to see a 140 game season with expanded playoffs similar to the NHL. They purposely inched the CBT slightly higher knowing it would be rejected. Come later this month, miraculously, they will be negotiating to “save the season for the fans” Their modus operandi has been to start games May 1st. You just watch and see what transpires.
The press is almost 100 percent behind the players. Most people are behind the players. It’s laughable to think the Owners have an ally in the press. The players are the ones using the press.
Did you watch Manfred yesterday, he complimented the players. The players are the ones negotiating through the press.
The outlets that are behind the owners are ESPN & MLBN. In fact, they both showed Manfred’s presser and statements, but not Clark’s. Most of the media, however, is decidedly behind the players, and stories like this aren’t going to help.
As I said in the very beginning, regardless of how this shakes out, it’s a lose-lose for the owners and they just don’t know it.
Your correct. I laugh at all these articles saying the owners suck and feel sorry for the players. Do you think it may have to do with the fact that that these so called journalists need the game and the players to be friendly to them in order for them to have a job? Leeches with personal gains clouding there writing.
‘Did you watch Manfred yesterday, he complimented the players.’
This was a PR move that apparently you failed to notice. Shocking because I don’t understand how anyone could take anything Manfred says at face value. But here you are.
I don’t watch ESPN. MLB has Plesac who was a Union Rep.
And both should have shown Clark’s comments.
Clipper, MLB Network did show Clark and ESPN announced that they would but I saw it on MLB Network. What I noticed from it was, Manfred, like him or not, he seemed poised and Clark sounded nearly unhinged. I can see how the MLBPA came out the loser the last couple of CBAs.
I also didn’t think it was a good look to have Scherzer up there.
JoeSays: Okay, that’s good. I wonder if the web news got them thinking about how slanted it seemed. Clark’s a moron though, imo, and I would’ve moved on from him if I were the union.
The union definitely has some work to do too, but the owners’ lack of movement off the CBT stuff is a complete non-starter, and rightfully so, imo.
Both sides are replete with unattainable goals, and should recognize this, strip away the day immediately, and readdress the simple core issues.
If MLB really is not doing as well as the union says, they should be opening at least some of their books to reflect that. But they won’t, which leads me to the inevitable conclusion. Nonetheless, I would defend their right not to open them, because it’s their right.
If they cancel more than 30 games then they should just go ahead and skip the whole season and hand the Dodgers another fake trophy. 1981 and 2020 are both as fake as it gets.
Take out the word fake and i laughed out loud.
What if the cba tax was put into escrow and the teams could designate their portion of it to pay player salarys. If not used then it could roll into the Pre-Arbitration Bonus Pool or something more appropriate.
And what did the Players try to sneak in? Because surely they’re not innocent either.
The players didn’t put anything new in their latest proposal.
You can see exactly what the MLBPA’s previous offer was on this very website if you wanted to take the time to read it before commenting.
I’m sure the entire proposal was in this and any other web site. 100%. Lmao
Sounds like something a player would write…
Well, no one has accused them of sneaking in anything specific that day, so we have no information to answer your question.
It’s a proposal by mlb, voted on by the union. It’s literally impossible to sneak anything into a document with a “Yes/No” vote.
The owners are shady but players acting like they were being fleeced with the CBA, minimum salary and bonus pools are ridiculous. 30 million allocated to the best pre-arb players is a lot for something that didn’t even exist before. 700k is a more than fair minimum. What more do they want?
I suspect the players might have been willing to live with the proposed minimum salaries and bonus pool. It was probably the CBT thresholds and anti-tanking provisions (or lack thereof) that probably scuttled a deal.
It’s pretty simple actually — the entire concept of free agency is broken bc it’s become very clear that it is bad business to pay for not star players in free agency and more advantageous to simply keep restocking cheap players in their pre arb years to build most of your team
This is largely the result of data and analytics and approaches like money ball… Which was smart and innovative but means that your average major leaguer is never really given a chance to earn their value bc they are viewed as past their prime by the time they reach free agency (assuming they even make it that long).
The pre arb pool is meant to rectify this to some extent by recognizing that not all pre arb players contribute the same value and that the minimum salary should be the payment rate for replacement level, not dudes that are integral parts of your team
It’s also not just the total dollar amount being debated but the number of players included… MLB wants to treat this as a minor pay bump for the ultra elite and MLBPA wants to treat it as fair compensation for the large number of players currently earning the minimum with no negotiating leverage that contribute a disproportionate level of value for their teams
It’s pretty clear that free agency is broken and one part of that is that MLB got their way prob 15 ish years ago when they outlawed major league deals for amateur players (ie guys negotiating MLB salaries for their pre arb years as part of their contract when drafted /signed as an amateur free agent
The problem with the pre-arb pool is the players good enough to get the bonus will also be good enough to earning a lot in free agency. And it’s unreasonable to expect a majority of the younger players to get the bounus.
Who gives a flying leap. If you didn’t like the offer, reject it.
You now have a week to negotiate. You shouldn’t have flown back to New York and wasted a day.
These people are children. Grow up and deal with the issue.
Oh the big bad bogey man tried to slip in something at the last minute. Hey child, that’s happens to us real people all the time. Grow up.
them flying home was totally absurd, yeah. what more do they have to do right now? get off your high horse and get to the table. stop trying to fish for public support.
Why not stay in a five star hotel room and meet the next day. Oh wait, that’s too much of an inconvenience.
to heck where they stay, that shouldn’t even matter. in fact, they could even meet over Zoom or something, but the lack of any real meetings today shows they really don’t care that much. honestly, they are kinda acting like babies. the league swung at them and instead of swinging back they run from the conflict and cry foul. sad, just sad.
I agree with you darkside.
And the world needs ditch diggers too. Let the players chose other professions if they’re unhappy with there current one
Exactly, when bad things happen regularly that makes them OK.
We shouldn’t try to fix things, only accept them meekly.
WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE!
and people will eat this all up without real proof because the owners are evil and the players are underpaid or something like that. PATHETIC.
Or, nothing like that at all.
I mean, these were facts reported by multiple sports news outlets yesterday but you can just pick a position and cover your ears if you would like. The world is usually less scary that way.
that simply isnt proof. they don’t provide any real proof that anything was actually slipped in, just copy what the players claim.
The good news is that if this isn’t truthful Manfred will immediately correct this report and issue a statement of fact. If he stays silent, however, that will speak volumes about the assertion. It’s not wrong, but it’s a dirty trick when you’re trying to convince everyone your the team negotiating in good faith. That’s not exactly a good faith move, imho. I have negotiated on behalf of management against a union and this is a move you make to intentionally get something past, hoping they won’t notice.
If it rule changes, the owners have complete authority to implement rule changes without the players permission. That’s not sneaking in anything.
If it’s about something else, the owners have every right to say the only way we can make that work is by also doing this.
Marvin Miller made a career out of that. This is strong evidence the players union is made up of a bunch of buffoons.
i mean, he could say anything and most people still wouldn’t believe it. he could say the sky is blue and people would object at this point.
So the MLBPA claims multiple changes and the league has no rebuttal. Doesn’t seem strange at all.
Hey Darkside, I have this bridge you really need to check out…
Shocked! Absolutely shocked that the owners would pull such shenanigans! (that was sarcasm for the sarcasm impaired)
I bought upstairs carpeting the other day, I was shocked they padded the estimate with furniture moving (Sarcasm) Yes, furniture moving is typically included, but they didn’t expect our bedrooms to have actual beds.
It happens to us real people every time we take our cars in for auto repairs. A player crying about this stuff pisses me off,
Baseball is the most ineptly-managed of all the pro sports. It’s a sad commentary on the state of baseball that it has always been this way, and nothing ever seems to change for the better.
Seal the gates, cancel the season, hire unhinged armed guards to deny access to all MLB buildings that the “players” use, hire an army of trolls to spread rumors about the players and their wives, demand that the only player representative for the next negotiation is Trevor Bauer. SHOVE IT IN THEIR GREEDY FACES, ROB!
This will be solved by a federal mediator like in 1994
Players do not want that. They know they will not get as much if mediator comes in and explains to them they’re asks are unreasonable. The owners already asked for federal mediation and the players turned it down
Anyone else see Manfred laughing before he announced the cancellation of the first two weeks of games? The guy isn’t serious about an agreement.
MLBTR: posts an article
Comments: owners are bad/players are bad
Repeat forever
Cry myself to sleep
The sad thing is that players are only concerned with getting more of the pie. I don’t want to hear any of them saying they want to fix the game of baseball or ensure it’s around for another 100 years. All this money players want just means more we will end up paying for things related to our teams.
I never comment – but I am just so over this. So disgusted with it all. They are all wrong – they are all right – It’s not just 1 sided. Does Max really care about minimum salary when he gets what $5 million a year? Maybe he could say I’ll take $40 – spread other $5 around the team. Do owners care when they manipulate service time? It’s a hampster wheel and it’s a gd mess.
The very sadest part for me – All the “little people” – Stadium workers, bar employees, restaurant workers etc etc – they do not get tips / paid when these out of touch people (yes owners & players – all of them are out of touch) stop negotiating and do not play.
Sad part #2 – they are losing the young fan – I was going to take my son to Celtics game on April 1st and Sox game April 2nd – now no Sox game. He’s 15 years old & already thinks baseball is boring as heck on TV (3+ hours??? no way) as do every one of his buddies – now I explain, or try to explain why the lockout and no game in April – he at least enjoys going to games, but now can’t do that.
I think I can hear the Fat Lady going through her vocal progressions….
I understand the players are the product. I understand that the owners are greedy and con artists. at the same time, the owners incur ALL the risk. I could agree to many of the players issues except that they have no skin in the game. they get hurt, they still get paid. They become terrible in season 2 of a decade long deal, still get paid. incredible benefits and perks. is like to see the owners put a proposal giving the players what they want with a couple of caveats.
Minimum performance clauses that cut pay if performance is not met
Maximum time missed due to injury or there’s pay reductions
Also the way of the players. You achieve higher performance you earn a bigger contact regardless of status
If I was a player and I had to justify to fans the reason for them turning down nearly $1 billion of additional compensation, I’d mention this type of crap, too. But at the end of the day us fans will see this for what it is, the players aren’t interested in striking a deal, they’re interested in winning this CBA negotiation. To hell with the fans.
Wait so they were rule changes? Not really what the headline sort of implied. I assumed it was fine print altering say the CBT or service time.
So MLB tacked on some rule changes they thought they’d get the union to agree ln anyways. Their rule changes we’ve been hearing about for a while and other than the pitch clock they would seemingly benefit players. Less shifts means possibly more hits and less work on defense having to move around every batter. Larger base seems like it could be safer for runners and especially first baseman to no get stepped on.
Meh, not really feeling bad for the players here. Ross should be complaining that MLB won’t raise the pseudo salary cap and get MLB to reach a compromise there so we can move on.
Meanwhile I have to cancel our Arizona trip to Spring Training so my 6 and 12 year old could see their heroes. And the Arizona and Florida hotel, stadium, restaurant, and surrounding employees lose out on work. And countless other downstream effects such as lost marketing and sponsorship revenue is and will be lost.
But you’re right Ross, increasing the size of the base was a real doozy at the last minute.
ALL of the parties here can eff off.
Maybe your kids will figure out sports players are not heros. Maybe you can show them some video of the Ukrainian president instead.
HE is a hero.
My kids don’t have posters of President Zelensky in their room, but they are aware (at least the 12 year old) of the Russia-Ukraine war and we say a prayer for the Ukranian people every day on the way to school.
Zelensky and just as important, the Ukrainian people, are heroes.
Whenever I read the news of Ukrainian resistance to the invasion, my faith in humanity goes up a bit. When I read the comments on MLBTR, I lose all faith and hope.
If Congress can pass bills without knowing what’s in them so can the MLB .
The biggest difference in Congress is that they don’t care what’s in them, and when the bills pass, nobody’s trying to save money, they’re all spending way too much of it.
Actually, maybe we should switch the owners and Congress. We may end up with an exciting offseason and a relatively fiscally responsible government.
When has this Congress EVER been fiscally responsible?
Fortunately with no CBA and associated drug testing in place, the players were able to take all kinds of things to stay alert past midnight. lol
Strickland and wood combined made over 30 million playing BB and not exactly household names….. so what’s the problem sucks to be them…. let’s play ball..
Simple point: one bargaining party does not try to ‘slip in’ new clauses in the fine print unless they don’t care if they lose all credibility with the other party.
To try to ‘sneak’ something new in without alerting the other side while actively engaged in negotiations is lower than low. It’s down to rat level.
On the other hand the players could have just said “we will deal with rule changes later, but here is our position on the core economic plan”.
You’re right, but trying to slip something in during the middle of the night (apparently literally) is the ultimate bargaining in bad faith.
Neither side is “right.” I am a little disgusted at the players. I am completely disgusted with the owners. This isn’t 1981, with 3 or 4 channels and most people not having cable let alone streaming-on-the-go cell phones. People who would otherwise be baseball fans have many more options. NHL playoffs are coming up. There is going to be a spring football league. March Madness. Even track and field, the mile run world record might fall for the first time since 1999…my fifth grade son asked about when these mile races would be, asks about hockey, watches football and hockey with me…never brings up baseball, thinks baseball is “totally boring” when I have games on, and walks away.
Baseball was a limping old man with osteoarthritis who ate the Early Bird Special alone at Denny’s for a while…I think this labor idiocy (especially considering all the other things going on in the world today) may be moving the sport to hospice care.
Nicely articulated.
I’m totally tracking with you Thorton. MLB used to be what the NFL is today. It was America’s sport. Everyone, young or old, black or white, knows who Tom Brady is. Mike Trout is known in the sports world, but outside of sports, he’s not even close to Tom Brady.
The NFL is top tier. There’s a large canyon, then come the second tier leagues. MLB, the NBA, and for the most part the NHL have their niche and dedicated fan bases. For them to be “healthy” leagues, they need some type of American household (non-niche) relevance. This type of back and forth bickering, and canceling of games, not only pisses off the dedicated fan base, but it eats away at the American household non-niche relevance. THAT’S the part that Rob Manfred, Tony Clark, and the countless lawyers involved in this debacle don’t understand – they either don’t factor, or worse don’t care about, the casual SPORTS fan where the true relevancy of the SPORT (not just the league) lies.
Whether they want to admit it or not, the lack of relevancy leads to less Little Leaguers, less high school players, less restaurants showing the games on big screens, less sponsorships, less commercials, and ultimately less revenue. It’s OUR GAME, not theirs, and they’re effing it up for everyone.
Thornton: I think most people, when speaking about this as a whole, feel the same way as you do. Granted maybe some feel the scales tipped in the opposite direction with owners & players, but overall, yeah, I agree.
I didn’t think we could have a worse Commissioner than Bud Selig… but Manfred has proven me wrong.
There will be no real baseball season in 2022.
Maybe some lame 60-game, 16-team playoff thing they will call a season.
I have already predicted a 96-game season. The Mets will finish last with a 3-93 record.
if the owners are such evil, greedy people then why in the hell did Scherzer and Seager and Siemen and all the other players that signed a new contract actually make a deal?.
Why didn’t they show solidarity with all the underlings of the players union and said we won’t sign anything until there is a new CBA in place…huh?
They could have held out for more money under the new CBA. why strengthen the owners’ position?
OHHHHH…NOOOOO, they got their money deal in. They were more than happy to take the owners’ money, leaving all the middling players out to dry.
Get the fq out of here.
If this were true, why would Scherzer still be fighting for other player’s rights? He’s literally losing money because they’re not playing.
he can weather it in his sleep, but how about the free agent who is hoping to latch on to a team, with a mortgage and kid on the way…hmmm.
The relief pitcher who has been on 7 teams in his career, never earning that much but always finding a job, who needs that small contract in full to pay his bills, what about him?
Probably the best comment here.
@sniper What do you think has to do with what I said?
The only issue I have with this is it’s a straw man. How could these union guys know how this would play out for certain? And, obviously, the owners were not acting in an “evil manner” during the lockout by signing them. It’s possible that Scherzer, et al really support certain individual owners who want to spend, like Cohen, which is why he signed there and took that.
But to turn down an acceptable contract because one anticipates potential union-ownership issues in the future is so abstract it’s unrealistic. It’s no different than saying, “if the owners really felt this way, why did they pay these guys so much money then?”
Good for the MLBPA. If the owners want to make it a popularity contest, that probably isn’t going to turn out well for them.
Ahh yea I love it when I go to buy a car and see all the little fees the dealer is tacking on with unnecessary add-one we didn’t discuss or advise was part of the price.
About that Tru-coat… 🙂
The MLB Owners are so sleazy like a guy at a bar trying to slip something in somebodys drink ir like how Congress tries to put in pork in any piece of legislation.
So in short: MLB Owners = Congressmen = Creeps at the bar
You do realize that Stippling is the idiot here? Oh, probably not.
Or you are, for thinking that.
@Halo11, so how is Stripling the idiot for pointing out MLB’s tactics?
Typical owner behavior it seems like. Shouldn’t be much longer and they’ll start threatening to bring in scab players.
I’m not sure they can do that, at least without first lifting the lockout and then the players going on strike. Locking out players and then bringing in replacement players would surely violate multiple labor laws.
Not happening any time soon.
I still don’t understand the players union refusal to use an independent arbitrator. I’m not interested in anyone’s conspiracy theories here. The only ones getting screwed here are the Baseball fans. Both sides have blatant disregard for those who love the game.
The union isn’t giving anything of substance, their compromise is lowering their demands. An arbitrator would see through that BS pretty quickly.
Supposedly it would take an independent arbitrator too long to get up to speed to determine this effectively. And when they tried the mediator in 1994 the first comment was “well, let’s get rid of free agency.” No phrase will turn the players off faster to trying that again than that!
From the start, I was curious how MLB would handle labor negotiations in the age of social media, Twitter, and news sites such as the Athletic, Fangraphs and MLBTR that allow greater perspectives and voices to be heard. Turns out not so well.
It’s a given that writers will favor the union (even if it more like an association). The fact that they MLB-R, for example, writes moderately favorable coverage for the union doesn’t mean much. The readers will view these opinions much like they do when they read opinion pieces in the NYT or WSJ. The reader knows the opinions will be skewed and take that into consideration.
Or maybe they are actually writing with accuracy.
They aren’t. A days back, Anthony Franco was writing about percentage increases, and they were all wrong, by a lot. Steve Adams defended him, by saying he was referencing 2017 as the base year, instead of last year as the base year, and they were still wrong.
And, even in this article, as many of the posters pointed out, the owners had every right to make the rule changes with or without the players permission.
By not pointing that out, it’s kind of a sin of omission by the writer. I wouldn’t want to be ambushed at the last minute either, but the fact is, the owners could’ve left it out of the contract, signed, and implemented the changes in 2023,
The writer should’ve pointed that out.
@JoeBrady, I’m not quite sure where you’re going with this. To be clear(er) on my side hopefully, those running CBA and labor negotiations in general try to get public sentiment on their side. In decades past, it was easier for MLB to paint the players as the bad guys. Traditional media played into this, playing up the division on both sides. Diversification of media and the rise of social media has been a challenge for MLB in this negotiation. One doesn’t need to be pro player or union. Simply seeing the tactics and the timeline favor the players, which is why one poll shows only 16% of fans support owners. It’s not that they love the players position; it’s that they hate the owners more. That wouldn’t (and didn’t) happen during prior MLB negotiations when a higher percentage of fans were more pro owner.
Despite my verbal sabre-rattling, I’m neither pro player or pro owners. I believe both should get their share and the CBA allows for that negotiation and battle. It’s been clear to me in this negotiation that the owners have been the obstructionists in their approach, hence my pro-player words. To be fair, the players created this situation by negotiating bad deals the last few CBA’s. They can’t correct it all at once, but I support their attempt to take back some ground this time. If they don’t, the future labor battles will intensify and be even worse.
So with that, go MLBPA! I can miss games.
For the record, I am pro-Joey in this matter. What I object to is stupid demands that have no chance of being accepted, and only serve to obstruct the process. And I will criticize both sides for that. That’s what I thought of both sides on their initial cap demands. Both were non-starters.
But to the original direction with this, the media is blatantly pro-player on this. Part of this is probably self-interest, since they are best served by being friendly with the players. And part is probably because they traditionally side with labor.
MLB-R is not nearly as bad as some of them, being even in their articles, there are always some suggestions about why the players are right. I seldom see them suggest why the owners are right. Just in this article, the changes reported upon were already changes that the owners had the right to make.
Mr. Adams supplied 5 paragraphs saying how this was a sneak attack, but not a single sentence to acknowledging that the owners didn’t ask for anything new. That’s siding with the players, imo.
While Clark noted that the players were not necessarily opposed, the fact that MLB raised them so late in the process left the union with little to no time to discuss them — an obvious point of consternation.
===============================
The way I see it is that the owners tried to put in some late proposals not previously agreed. That would anger me as well.
But if Tony Clark says “the players were not necessarily opposed,” but were annoyed by how they were presented, then are we finished?
If the only thing standing in the way were the size of the bases, the pitch clock, and the shift, and the players don’t object to those changes, then why can’t they sign now?
You didn’t actually READ the article, did you? Here, let me help you.
“It got to be like 12:30 [in the morning] and the fine print of their CBT proposal was stuff we had never seen before,” says Stripling. “They were trying to sneak things through us, it was like they think we’re dumb baseball players and we get sleepy after midnight or something. … They pushed us to a deadline that they imposed, and then they tried to sneak some shit past us at that deadline and we were ready for it.”
Keywords are CBT proposal.
You didn’t actually READ my post, did you? Here, let me help you.
“The way I see it is that the owners tried to put in some late proposals not previously agreed. That would anger me as well.”
So, so far, I am in agreement with the players. They are angry and I would also be angry. Is there an issue there with me agreeing with the players? I didn’t think so.
Now, what about the rest of it? If the players have no objection to the three items in question (assuming that there is nothing else), then there is no reason to not sign. Am I missing something?
And, even if they disagreed, the owners already have to the fight to change the rules with a one-year notice. So what they added only codified rights they already possess.
Is there anything whatsoever wrong with what I said? I’m open to discussion, but I think this part of it is cut & dried.
It has been out there for weeks that the owners are willing to cancel 25% of the regular baseball season to achieve their CBA goals. Why is this contract offer a surprise? It shouldn’t be. It’s been obvious from day 1 what the owners are doing.
On the players side, they are making it personal which is ridiculous. They should consider themselves lucky and be thankful to be paid anything for playing baseball. Baseball players are employees. Period. Just employees, nothing more. Great players come along every year. Baseball players are replaceable. Believe it. Let’s all remember that. #MLB #MLBPA #CBA
I love this whole “I don’t care about watching the best players in the world play each other, I just want to watch baseball, I pull over and watch American Legion games sometimes. I ONLY go to MLB parks because I love paying a lot of money for things that I don’t think are any better” argument.
25% of their season is $3 billion in lost revenue. How bad must they be trying to F the players if they are willing to give up $3 billion to do it?
Last season you were complaining about players that didn’t belong in the majors and calling for contraction of the league because of it. Apparently you don’t believe that great players come along every year or that they are replaceable. MLB players are the elite. The best 780 at what they do in the world. They are not replaceable. What is replaceable is the owners. Any competent business owners could replicate what they do. Considering the fact that ALL team purchases not cash purchases and were financed with debt, that means anyone can do what they did. Add in the facts that all ballparks were financed with taxpayer money or contributions of public land or both and its clear that its the owners that are completely replaceable.
Is the policy for restricting obscenities in the comment section still in effect? If so, you may want to edit out a certain four-letter word in Stripling’s response, Steve. Hold yourself to the same standards to which you hold us…
The entitlement on both sides of this negoitation is disgusting. Can you see that?
If every single person or company with seasons tickets for any MLB team cancelled their subscription tmrw, both sides would settle their differences immediately and the season would proceed….we hv the power here not the owners or the players, but just like them, it would never happen as the fans r as divided as the owners!!!
We had to pay in full for our 2022 season tickets more than six months ago.
That’s ridiculous. The Yankees started doing that a few years back. I didn’t, and couldn’t know who was going to be available in February. It’s one of the reasons I dropped my plan(s). And I never looked back. That and their deal with Stubhub. Instead of me competing against Stubhub, using unsold NYY tickets, I use SH to my advantage by targeting last minute bargains.
They do it because they can.
Just for clarification, Joe, you’re a Red Sox fan.
I dont know what heppened but I can see, its human nature, after the owners already gave up so much, they tried to even the playing field a little by adding things in.
?
STAY STRONG OWNERS!!!!! IT”S YOUR RIGHT TO LIE TO THE PLAYERS AND NEGOTIATE IN BAD FAITH!!!! WHO TAUGHT THEM TO READ ANYWAY!!!!! BREAK THEM AND CRUSH THEM INTO POWDER AND SNORT THEM!!!!! NOTHING YOU DO IS EVER WRONG BY ME!!!!!!! PAT ME ON THE HEAD EVEN ONCE PLEASE I’M BEGGING YOU!!!!!!
Wow, people who want to see baseball played are STILL standing beside the owners. I just find it laughable. These would be the people on the Titanic as the end of the ship goes in the air saying “they said that it couldn’t be sunk.”
This is an OWNER-INSTITUTED LOCKOUT, not a player strike. For baseball to begin, the owners need only lift the lockout. The season would be played under the terms of the previous CBA until an agreement is reached. Owners know fans want baseball and refuse to provide it.
Until we see open books from ownership – not vague figures or books so redacted that you can’t tell if its an income statement or a description of the stadium – then you can’t believe a word the ownership side says about losing money, about struggling, etc. The books are hidden for a reason, because the ownership knows making them public reduces their ability to stand on that. Player salary details are made public for the same reason, it makes owners look better.
And the head doofus of them all, Manfred, chuckles about the effects of it all. He’s laughing most of all at the fans who are standing beside the owners.
Owners don’t care about baseball, they care about revenue. Don’t give them any. I already have spent zero dollars on any MLB-related items over the past 3 years (besides the portion of my streaming service bill gets funneled to them) so I can’t give less. Cancel your season ticket plans. Don’t buy merchandise. Attend a college or high school or little league game instead.
Yeah because ending the season early due to a strike is much better than starting a month late. Smdh.
Put down the bong dude, the players would go on strike without a new CBA that is why the owners did the preemptive thing to cut players off from their money instead of letting them earn enough to build a war chest before going on strike.
The Players Association is very well funded without having to build a “war chest” based on earnings from this season alone. They have set up training facilities all in their own. I doubt that broke the bank.
Manfred lied…again and tried sneaky stuff after midnight? Tell me it isn’t so!!
These two entities have screwed this game up so badly over the last 50 years, it’s just not funny anymore. When you make so many changes in a short period of time, people stop being able to recognize what they used to know. I said that they’d probably get me back after this lockout was over, but I’m really not so sure anymore. This isn’t the game I grew up with. This isn’t the game I used to love to listen to, and watch. They’ve changed in season trading. They’re changing the draft. They are changing the DH rule. They are changing the luxury tax structure. They are changing how much time a pitcher can have to make a pitch. There is no consistency in this sport anymore. Those are just the recent changes, and the proposed changes for this contract. They’ve used analytics to nullify the most exciting parts of the game. Eff all of them.
Since Rob Manfred views the World Series trophy as just a “piece of metal,” maybe it makes more sense in future years to have the head of the MLBPA present the trophy?
Today was my hoped-for deadline a deal will be reached. I’ll remain optimistic for a deal near term, but it will be delayed optimism!
I do not approve of an International Draft. Signing days are just fine by me.
Agreed. I say get rid of the amateur draft too, at least for the top 100 or 200 prospects, and move to something like the international draft.. give the small and mid market teams more to spend for competitive balance and let the players sign where they want.
International Draft is THEE best piece of competitive bargaining puzzle. But since the PA’s greatest goal is to bleed the largest market franchises more it doesn’t make sense to them.
This is worse than clickbait. If stripling actually said this he’s the idiot. Because who on earth would read a contract…seriously
Boycott this season at least. The fans need to send a message. Call and cancel your tickets and write the owner of your favorite team. We pay the salaries, and it is time to say no more of these stoppages or no more fans.
There are definitely sneaky and dishonest ways to do that.. but it seems like Stripling is just describing bargaining. The league conceded on a number of items and asked for something in return. Who knows though? There is so much bad blood between these two groups..
How many of you would pay up to five dollars to watch a steel cage match between Clark and Manfred?
Clark’s a big dude Manfred is done in a few seconds
What if we give Manfred rocket boosters as a handicap?
Sounds like people are negotiating without any negotiation skills. These are shady accusations. Why not stick to the facts, find common ground, and resolve it? Simply put, it is ego coupled with stupidity. Manfred continues to solidify his legacy as one of the worst commissioners in the modern era.
There’s only one way to resolve this dispute…Arbitration. It’s 1994 all over again, only this time, it’s the owners doing it. Can’t see it being fixed any other way.
Both sides have to agree to that. The PA has rejected it at least twice.
The players are cry babies. Bigger bases should have been done 40 years ago. especially a safe base at 1b which is twice as big, half painted orange which is in foul territory and the runner touches the orange. No more collisions at first base.. What is to discuss ? Pitch clock there is something that needs extensive analysis…. oh yeah 20 or 22…Well lets negotiate , lets start with 25 seconds then 20 by the end of the contract. But MLB we only agree if you put another 50 million in the pot… Braves make 20 million in profit last year…No they dont say the players they made 100 million… No a financial analyst says 100 million is cash flow… What is cash flow say the players… and Jeff Passan and most of the analyst on this site buy it..
You can’t be on the side of the rich owners… They can’t be right..
Cry me a river babies, I am sending a donation to Ukraine relief.
TigerFan1968
Bigger bases should have been done 40 years ago. especially a safe base at 1b which is twice as big, half painted orange which is in foul territory and the runner touches the orange. No more collisions at first base.. What is to discuss ? Pitch clock there is something that needs extensive analysis…. oh yeah 20 or 22…Well lets negotiate , lets start with 25 seconds then 20 by the end of the contract.
===================================
I thought the same thing about the clock. One second per year. Pitches should be able to adjust.
IRT the bases, the players are idiots of they don’t accept that. In fact, they should’ve demanded it. My softball league made that change 30 years ago. There was a base for the 1B and a base for the runner. Heck, even the umps should agree to this since it makes the runner’s interference an easier call.
it is insane that the players wouldn’t want a rule which clearly, clearly makes the game safer for them,
Things you don’t hear the PA asking for but would make BASEBALL better:
– Salary Floor & Cap
– International Draft
– Larger Bases
– Banning The Shift
– Pitch Clock
– Limiting Instant Replay
– Abolishing the Divisions
– Expanded Playoffs
– Every Team plays one another home and away once a year
As a lifelong fan I couldn’t care less if the players are making 25x more than I am or if the owners are making 500x more than I am. Just play the game! No one will walk into a baseball stadium, sit in their 60 dollar seat with their 10 dollar beer and 7 dollar nachos and think “boy am I glad we worked out these core economics”. The fact that the league are the only side discussing things to make the product better and the players are only talking about money should speak volumes.
Also ENOUGH of this “I root for players not owners” nonsense. This isn’t Fantasy Baseball, you root for a TEAM. Mets fans didn’t care if Max Scherzer lived or died last year but this year…different story wonder why?
Expanded playoffs does not make baseball better. We don’t need 79-win teams like the Mets making the playoffs. This isn’t the NBA.
Don’t you worry, the Mets will find a way to miss the playoffs.
So you institute a salary floor, and you have teams that spend wisely, and in order to meet the floor, they have to sign a player, or two to a much higher salary than their value to the team would be. What is your solution to that? That affects arbitration, and FA contracts in the next season, and beyond. A salary floor is a good idea only to those who haven’t really thought about it much, but think it sounds good.
good points and then Scherzer and the Mets snuck into your writing, the two biggest reasons no baseball in April this year.
This article is vague.. This player is not helping their situation. The players are upset because the last time cut a deal, they were apparently incompetent. Look who’s at the table now leading the charge. I am not confident in the players representation. The owners and employers have a right to make money, a lot of it. The players do not have a right to their profits. Furthermore, The owners have come up with some very aggressive increases. Don’t you wish you had that in your job? The mid level to poor teams do not want to give up sharing and they do not want higher tax thresholds because they want to be able to compete. So that’s why the players want to increase the pool which can be taken advantage of by the rich teams. MLB knows that and is protecting the teams that make bad decisions from going belly up. To make some profit in this league a teams payroll needs to be 28%-32% of Revenues, not EBIDTA; that’s not a real indicator of anything in baseball. With that; a poor to mid market team can afford two $200 Million Dollar guys. The rule changes coming in 2023 will help get back baseball to look like baseball again. The draft lottery improvement is a good move too.
Win Cor
This player is not helping their situation. The players are upset because the last time cut a deal, they were apparently incompetent.
======================================
I said a year ago that the problem would that the union doesn’t want to get embarrassed again. It took me all of 2-3 seconds to recognize that the last contract was a disaster for the players. Now the players want to look good, but don’t know how.
Even now, the players are holding onto things that are NOT going to work in their best interests.
Larger bases, or better yet, a batters bag at 1st should be automatic.
Secondly, their idea of a lottery and reduced revenue-sharing will be another disaster. KC once spent $185M on their payroll. If they want KC to spend again, they need to help KC get better. If KC is not in contention, why would they spend anything?
Further, the more you open up the lottery, the more temptation there will be for teams to tank their way into the lottery. The Cubs will never be as bad as the O’s, so they will never compete with the O’s for the #1 pick. But if 8 teams are in the lottery, then there will be another 8 teams looking to tank themselves into the lottery.
The players are screwing themselves again, and the owners are going to let them.
How many great players come early in the draft anyway? To me that is pretty colors and shiny objects. The key is to protect the teams that make bad decisions while keeping revenue sharing at a level that let’s poor and mid market teams take risks. Like bringing in 4 veteran ballplayers to jack up attendance, like it used to be. The tax thresholds cannot be any higher than they are right now. We saw the Dodgers buy everyone and lose last year. It sucked. Rent-a-Teams suck. Smaller market teams can’t compete at the trade deadline. That’s another thing that needs to stop. Not every team can be the STL Cardinals…what they do defies logic over there. LOL! The owners have come up on minimum salaries to a place that is unbelievable. Shame on the players union, not jumping on that.. A 1 or 1..5 Million dollar bonus pool for each team is more than enough as a yearly thank you to spread among rookies and young ball players. The players are dead wrong on this. If they are not careful the Owners will put on concerts, rodeos, political rallies and monster truck rallies in their place…..and break the union for being idiots.
Break the union. Pure and simple. There are baseball players all over the world who would replace the 1200 major league ball players on 40-man rosters tomorrow.
Go do something else Ross Stripling. Who cares what you do if you aren’t playing baseball.
BREAK THE UNION FOREVER!!!
I’ve had baseball for two weeks. The college baseball season started. I watch junior college games and high school games.
If you aren’t getting enough money already to play in MLB then get out of the way and let someone else play.
BREAK THE UNION FOREVER!!!
how did that work last time … bwha ha ha ha ha ha
I could not agree more; if the players do not understand what is in front of them.
The MLBPA keep running their immature mouths, and bash the owners every chance they get, thinking fans are going to think of them as the ‘little guy’. The owners moved on EVERY single issue except Super 2, and gave them a bonus pool and a draft lottery. There’s no way this isn’t a dramatically better deal than they’ve ever had in history. It’s all about getting massive paydays for the elite few by expanding the CBT threshold so the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, etc can set new high bars for premium players, ensuring that at least half the teams will never be able to prevent their players from testing the market instead of reasonable extensions. On the flip side, only foolish teams will give a Tatis 14 year deals so early in their careers to keep them long term. I am firmly on the side of MLB in waiting this out. Runaway inflation in professional sports is a very bad look for the players to hang their hopes on in today’s society.
The players and representatives of the players claiming the owners tried to sneak those three things in are just playing the media and trying to make the owners look bad. And it’s asinine that they would even claim that.
All three things have been brought up numerous times over the last few years as I’ve read numerous articles on each. And from what I understand, MLB can introduce a rule change and institute it a year later no matter if the players agree or not. And none of those three things are a big deal anyway.
Now, if the owners tried to add fine print that says they can set a new league minimum one year later then that would be sneaky…but that obviously didn’t happen.
These players are a disgrace. I mean to complain and wine about a $130,000 per year raise and an extra $30 million for top pre-arbitration players is ridiculous. Even the CBT is fair in my mind. It’s helped make baseball extremely competitive. Since 2000, 15 different teams have won the World Series. In my mind, that’s amazing. 15 different WS champion teams in 22 years. I don’t think MLB has ever been more competitive.
Players are still making millions of dollars and they can win a WS playing for any team. MLB has made it possible for players to become millionaires by playing just 2 years in the league. $700,000 minimum salary for 1 year. Most people don’t make $60,000 a year, but players want more than $700,000? That’s ridiculous.
Now, if they were trying to get minor leaguers higher salaries, I would back them all the way. But they don’t care about those guys.
Stripling is not the union spokesperson. The union spokesperson has not supported Stripling’s claim. No one has.
For San Diego Tatis was a desperate move not because he isn’t a great talent. It’s because the rolled the dice. Because they saw a shot at building a franchise Because in reality they cannot afford the team they have for more than a hot minute. They are close to a fire sale. They must win now. It’s dollars and sense….
Same ol’ same ol’ owners are still refusing to negotiate in relinquishing any ground in regards to money or control while it is still all of the players fault for this situation.
The owners haven’t relinquished any ground?
Are you Ross Stripling?
@cfstupid
The owners agreed to increase the minimum by $100,000.00 per prearb player plus an additional $30MM to be dispersed to that same group. The union does not want too many FAs in the same year as that reduces a FAs value. Just like six SSs this year are making it tougher for Correa and Story to get what had been expected. It is however, both sides fault.
My god the number of water carriers in here for ownership is really sad. The knees must be highly polished on some of these clowns …SMH
Pointing out where the players are wrong is not water carrying for the owners. However, writing the owners gave up nothing is water carrying for the players.
Young good players need to get paid more. The luxury tax threshold should be a speed bump and not a barrier.
Literally everything else is noise. Stripling comments are imbecilic noise.
no, but the overt love of ownership reeks of paid shills by an industry
Let me help some more.
I understand Manford laughed when talking about the loss of games.
Man… What an idiot.
With a clown like Manfort in charge, no wonder we don’t have an agreement.
Very weak response. Very, very weak.
I find most of the responses in here to be fairly accurate, with some posters always siding with the owners, and a few more always siding with the players.
Are the ones that always side with the players on their knees? Or this just one of those “my side is always right” responses?
Almost as many water carriers for the owners in here as there are for the players. Almost. You must need knee replacements by now, renhoek
lick my taint loser, go be the billionaires whip[ping boy
as opposed to being a water carrier for unions, which destroy every industry they touch.
really, how’s that minimum wage coming along in that great country of yours
Yes… We need more politics.
The players and representatives of the players claiming the owners tried to sneak those three things in are just playing the media and trying to make the owners look bad. And it’s asinine that they would even claim that.
All three things have been brought up numerous times over the last few years as I’ve read numerous articles on each. And from what I understand, MLB can introduce a rule change and institute it a year later no matter if the players agree or not. And none of those three things are a big deal anyway.
Now, if the owners tried to add fine print that says they can set a new league minimum one year later then that would be sneaky…but that obviously didn’t happen.
These players are a disgrace. I mean to complain and wine about a $130,000 per year raise and an extra $30 million for top pre-arbitration players is ridiculous. Even the CBT is fair in my mind. It’s helped make baseball extremely competitive. Since 2000, 15 different teams have won the World Series. In my mind, that’s amazing. 15 different WS champion teams in 22 years. I don’t think MLB has ever been more competitive.
Players are still making millions of dollars and they can win a WS playing for any team. MLB has made it possible for players to become millionaires by playing just 2 years in the league. $700,000 minimum salary for 1 year. Most people don’t make $60,000 a year, but players want more than $700,000? That’s ridiculous.
Now, if they were trying to get minor leaguers higher salaries, I would back them all the way. But they don’t care about those guys.
As far as what the players want, I think the players are mostly right. But with the comments of Clark and Stripling, I’m very concerned the players are not represented by adults.
My hope is Clark knows he’s postering. My fear is Stripling is an immature idiot.
I Agree with you but I don’t think the CBT threshold still provides a huge advantage for big market teams. While you are right that 15 different teams have won the WS, only three of them have been in the bottom half of revenue. This does not diminish your point, it strengthens it.
The NFL just had some of the most exciting playoffs you’ve ever seen, the NBA is eclipsing MLB in popularity, and this nonsense continues. Its embarrassing but most of all, depressing. They really don’t give a darn about the fans. Ownership really just won’t budge on anything
Screw them all
Players need to get off twitter and play video games for a few weeks.
Owners need to focus solely on there other investments for the same amount of time.
If they both find they miss baseball, as in the actual game of baseball, not baseball P&Ls or baseball crusades of good over evil, they should reconvene. If the actual enjoyment of the game doesn’t trump P&L’s and crusades in a few weeks, they all need to pass on their baton to new folks.
Unbelievable that these 2 groups try and win a World Series together.
Waaaaahhh!! Whiny players getting paid millions to play a game to be in the 1%.
At what point do owners want to make MLB a slow pitch softball league with a 2 hour game clock. This is bad.
It’s like the NFL is like tag football in Kevlar suits…
Brings the South Park episode “Sarcastaball” to mind
STFU stripling, here’s hoping you are out of work this year!
This clown mouthing off, Mike Trout chirping his two cents knowing he has 100 MILLION in the bank says they have to get this right. What an absolute tool.
You are the only clown here. Read up and learn what the owners have been doing. Without the players, the owners don’t become billionaires. The players can certainly go play somewhere else, and that would send a statement.
The players aren’t making the owners billionaires. The owners were all billionaires to begin with which is why they were able to buy a MLB team. They all earned their billions before becoming a team owner.
If owning teams or starting a new league is so easy, then the players should do it. Otherwise, just be grateful the owners agreed to raise the minimum salary from $570,000 to $700,000 a year. The players should also be grateful that the owners agreed to put $30 million aside each year for the top pre-arbitration players to split. The average person makes less than $60,000 a year and they are crying over $130,000 raise? Despicable.
It does not surprise me that the owners are sneaky and snake-y. They wanted to cut the season down and prorate salaries because other than opening day, the major league owners don’t care until warmer weather and schools are out. I am betting all of April into May will be lost. Maybe 32 games. The owners saving The money of a one-fifth cut to the salaries because of lost game checks will not translate to a one-fifth loss of game day revenue. Somebody at mlbtrade rumors should work to quantify that. Cut out 32 games in July and August and the owners will be the ones screaming. Not all games, though paid the same to the players, are equal to the owners.
Definitely not how you run a CBA negotiation. A lack of trust. The players might even agree to those, but dropping them in unannounced and without discussion is a non-starter.
Subtext: Heyman is not a useful source during these times.
Yeah, pretty excellent call on that. Really, he struggles to be a reliable source on almost anything these days.
of course The players would never ever in 1 million years even remotely consider the faint possibility of sneaking anything past the owners.
Think of it like steroids. It’s only really worth noting if you get caught cheating.
In the end I just really don’t get it. When the lockout started the league showed it’s teeth right away with the public statement that basically said it was all the players fault. Great way to start a negotiation. Sure, it means you’re trying to win a public opinion war but has overall public opinion really shifted to one side or the other in any meaningful way?
Then it really came down to the 11th hour where both sides seemed convinced the other would give in. And now with cancelled games all that’s happened it seems is there’s even more to argue about than before.
This really is pathetic.
It’s sad to believe that the sport and culture I love has become so cynically greedy and evil
Owners have anti trust exemption already and then they get caught being unethical in labor talks by “dumb ass baseball players”is the ultimate classic work by the player reps.Cheers to the men standing for every little kid with a dream.Minors conditions are typical slave owner mentality.Food,living quarters,medical trainers,equipment,facilities are all 3rd world conditions for our kids tring to make it to the show.Boo to the freaking 75% of greedy, clueless slum lords.
75% of owners don’t give a shit about their product or their employees health and safety.Minors system of inhumane housing,food,medical staff(not 1 freaking guy for 30 kids) & education.Owners get a F and half of them should be arrested for the deliberate lack of nutrition and healthy foods.Not to mention 4 guys to a room who’s per diem doesn’t cover McDonald’s and a hotel room.Pathedic human trafficking with substandard human conditions.Most of the kids are not bonus babies and their job of playing baseball is gendered!
This is between the MLB and MLBPA…minor leaguers aren’t represented, cool rant though
Hender not auto spell gender.peace!
40 games is a quarter of the schedule.Lloyds of London insure the leagues players,attendance,& games played.1 missed game is 40 to the owners.A quarter of a contract finished allows the owners financial reserve on the contracts policies.Now the paper (contract)can be bought and Lloyds of London will sale the 3/4 left on the deal to very willing companies.Everyone makes money but the players.
I’m to the point where they can just cancel the season. I’m betting that new leagues will form by summer, maybe not MLB caliber but not $100 a ticket either
Wileycoyote I like your thinking!But it’s impossible to compete for players when MLB has Anti Trust Exemption.Somebody smarter can explain the difference.But to ballpark a number.The new league would probably have to double MLB attendance to make the same money as MLB owners.Be cool if the league would be awarded Anti Trust and every new franchise was public stock with strict rules on the amount that can be owned per family business etc.Blue color league would be cool.True democracy by the people for the people.Right ?
Stripling is probably not wrong but he sounds uneducated through his approach and argument.
It’s a dumb statement picked up by dumb media without any real substance.
I have posted enough times that Revenue is not Profit (Amazon great revenue, profit not so good) .. Cash Flow is not Profit.. We saw the Braves financials,, OK but not great. Not investible and I say that because Liberty that owns the Braves has the stock valued at 1/2 the so called value of the Braves (2.7 billion)..
Time to talk about Median Mean or Average Salary, Total Salary. Simple Stats OK. Now if Ohtani’s next contract is 50 million the Mean, and Total Salary goes way up but the Mean which is more important stays the same.
The mean is the number where half the players make more and half the players make less. This works in Stats where distribution is fair but not in sports.
The ONLY stat that matters is what is the number where 50 per cent, 60, 70, 80 percent of the players fall under. In other words are the VAST Majority of the players doing significantly better under a new contract. The answer is a RESOUNDING yes. Minimum salaries are going way up…
The great news for the vast majority of the players is not enough as the top 2 percent want more, a lot more. They are holding out because but folks if the hungry people are getting more of the pie the fat folks at the table are gonna get less.
It would appear you have a formal education in business or economics. It would also appear you have significant real world / professional experience in these matters. That’s refreshing. How many MLB players have earned an MBA or even have an undergrad degree in business or economics?. How many have any business experience at a senior management level. How many people commenting here are paid for this type of analysis or have anything to do with these issues on a regular basis? Great points and nice to see an educated opinion but this debate among fans is not a product of well-reasoned conclusions among people who understand these parameters.
I’d guess a large portion of the people that comment on here are under 25, have maybe an intro to Econ course under their belt, and little to no real world experience with running or managing a company.
I am sure many are young but someone who has had accounting 101 knows the difference between revenue and profit. I think the real influence here is more ethnocentric. Most people are employees. Therefore, they side rather blindly with players (employees). Some of it as petty as hating people because they are rich which is a sad comment on our culture. Who is more inclined to look out for their customer, an employee or a business owner? Anyone who does not have a very clear impression has not been around many business owners.
Great points. Because consumers can walk away, the business owner cares a lot more about the product than the employee.
It’s preposterous to suggest players care more about the game than the owners. But yet I read and hear it all the time.
I would love to see what would happen if baseball shut down permanently and these cry babies had to get a real job, instead of getting paid multi million dollars to play a game for six months and bat, on average .230. What a bunch of, what amounts to, spoiled entitled brats that never worked a day in their lives, and for the most part, compared to when it was a game, do not display any heroism or excel at what they do. Go to work! Or should I say, “Go to play!”
Exactly. The players are being cry babies. Well said.
The players doing the negotiating are not the ones that would have to get real jobs.
At least Stripling’s concerns are real. “MLB’s proposal suddenly included notable changes regarding the luxury tax. Stripling implies that the changes extend beyond mere alterations to the threshold levels and penalty rates — instead featuring completely new items that had not been previously presented.” These are the details we need to see.
Those raised by union leader Tony Clark (a series of rule changes for the 2023 season that would see defensive shifts limited, the size of bases expanded and the implementation of a pitch clock) are the distraction. As usual, he bites on the misdirection.
A guess:
MLBPA wouldn’t agree to wording so MLB put it in “their” way because they know, as long as it wasn’t included in writing in some form, the players would keep pushing back.
Base size is not meaningless but won’t even be noticed once implemented. Or the analytics will be adjusted to account for the inch or two.
Pitch clock? Meh.
And I think batters should adapt to the shift: You are getting paid good money, figure it out!
Owners: You know that the season could be completely cancelled and that the country would hardly care or even notice (because baseball is culturally irrelevant) and you also know that you could easily find much better ROI’s than MLB. MLB players are already extremely well paid, treated great in general, ungrateful, greedy, and selfish in exchange for playing a game with a stick and a ball and mittens 7-8 months per year and you know it. Lifetime benefits after 6 weeks on a MLB roster, many of them receive signing bonuses (frequently major bonuses) before ever playing their first professional game, entry level salary is in the top 1% of incomes, average salary (more than $4 million!!!) is in the top 1/10th of 1% of incomes, playoff bonuses, awards bonuses, free tickets for friends/family/etc., daily food allowance, luxury hotels, luxury travel accommodations, etc. Enough is enough- stop being weak and stop allowing MLBPA to make you look like chump pushovers. Hold the line! Stop giving in! BREAK THE MLBPA UNION!
Hey Voice, usually I don’t comment about other people’s right to free speech; but all I ever see from you is anti-union stuff and negative comments about baseball in general. If you don’t like baseball, why are you even here? I definitely do not agree that baseball is “culturally irrelevant”. Is it on par with the NFL & NBA? No, not any longer; however, all of the news programs and internet sites lamenting that baseball isn’t starting on time says otherwise. Culturally, baseball has long been ingrained into the fabric of American life. It signals the start of spring. A new beginning; a rebirth, ifbyou will. Now I sound like Morgan Freeman. But it’s true. If it was irrelevant, people wouldn’t care. And I’m seeing just the opposite and even a thousand messages won’t change that.
I’m truly starting to wonder if there will even be a 2022 season.
With people like Stripling in the room, you might be right.
These players are the same children that were coddled as youth players by mommy and daddy, and fail to comprehend how the real world works inside their insulated little bubbles of elitism. Owners are running a business, these guys are employees. The childish lashing out by these players is really off putting as a baseball fan. I’m not a fan of players I’m a fan of my team.
“Essentially, we’re rooting for laundry.” – Jerry Seinfeld
These selfish Players and Owners are obviously not watching the world news, there are way more important things going on in the world and this country has more division in it than ever before,get together and let’s go,this is ridiculous, the players need to back off the CBT a little bit,owners will never go to 263 on the CBT after 4 yrs. And the owners need to get off 220 after 1yr and get to 250 with penalties after that maybe as high as 100%
If the MLBPA never expressed optimism about a deal being done, then why did Stripling tell a reporter earlier that same day that he was frantically calling real estate agents trying to find a spring training home?
Just thinking about this. Adding stuff to a contract is not a big deal. So Stripling is either an idiot for being offended by this or he is trying to inflame the idiots into being offended by this.
Politicians do this all the time, how’s that working out?
When one side tries to demonize the other side, be afraid, be very afraid.
Looks like they tried to sneak it in the back again.
It really is time to get rid of @MLB anti-trust exception. @SenWarren Let the players & potential new owners have more power to threaten a new league.