Arguably the biggest question for the Twins this offseason is how they’ll address shortstop. Minnesota’s shocking Spring Training signing of Carlos Correa solved the position for the 2022 campaign, but it’s again up in the air after the two-time All-Star opted out of the final two years on his contract.
That Correa’s now back on the open market puts Minnesota in competition with the league for his services. Twins ownership and the front office has spoken about their desire to bring him back, although they’re up against traditionally bigger spenders. Unlike last offseason, when the former first overall pick settled for a three-year guarantee to secure the highest per-year salary for a free agent position player in MLB history, he’s expected to command a long-term deal this winter.
During a recent appearance on the Talk North podcast, LaVelle E. Neal III of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune suggested the Twins have put forth contract offers of varying lengths to Correa. Neal indicates Minnesota’s proposals range from six to ten years with differing average salaries in each. The shorter-term offers would surely feature higher annual payouts, with the comparatively lesser length reducing the team’s longer-term risk.
Financial terms of the proposals aren’t clear, but it’s notable Minnesota is ostensibly willing to make a long-term commitment to play at the top of the market. The Twins signed Joe Mauer to an eight-year, $184MM extension in March 2010 but have otherwise only reached or narrowly exceeded a nine-figure guarantee twice ($105.3MM for Correa and $100MM for Byron Buxton, both last offseason). A Correa deal of six-plus years would almost certainly set a new high-water mark for the organization, even if the contract contained one or more opt-out chances.
Correa is the #2 free agent of this winter in MLBTR’s estimation, predicted for a nine-year deal worth $288MM. Headed into his age-28 campaign, he’s still the youngest of the four top open market options at the position. Dansby Swanson is going into his age-29 season, while Trea Turner and Xander Bogaerts will each spend most of next season at 30 years old. Correa narrowly led that group with a .467 slugging mark this past season, while Bogaerts finished first with a .377 on-base percentage. On a rate basis, Correa was the top offensive player by measure of wRC+, although a pair of minimal injured list stints for a finger contusion and a battle with COVID-19 kept him to 590 plate appearances.
While retaining Correa figures to be the Twins’ ideal course of action, Neal relays that Bogaerts would be Minnesota’s secondary target. Dan Hayes of the Athletic similarly suggested earlier this month the Twins were likely to pivot to the longtime Red Sox star if Correa were to land elsewhere. Boston has consistently maintained a desire to keep Bogaerts, while he’s also drawn some reported interest from the Phillies.
The Twins acquired Kyle Farmer from the Reds last week, at least mitigating the need to dip into the lower tiers of free agency if they come up empty on their pursuit of the top four shortstops. Farmer’s a competent defender coming off a .255/.315/.386 showing during his final season in Cincinnati. His presence raises the floor at the position, but he’s certainly capable of assuming a utility role off the bench if the Twins make an impact move.
Minnesota presently projects for a 2023 payroll around $98MM, per Roster Resource. They have just over $19MM in guaranteed commitments by 2024. Minnesota opened this past season with player spending a bit above $134MM, according to Cot’s Baseball Contracts. There’s pretty clear flexibility to make a significant investment at the shortstop position, although the front office will have to weigh that course of action against their desire to upgrade in the bullpen, behind the dish and in the corner outfield/designated hitter mix.
Take the ten years. Call it a career at the end.
Except I like the Twins, so hopefully somebody else jumps on that grenade.
case – It’s Correa’s time all the time.
Go ahead and take the money. You will be the most miserable millionaire baseball player buried in obscurity who people forgot is even playing… Second only to Mike Trout. Remember him?
Yes
I disagree. Mike Trout is doing just fine. He’s one of the faces (along with his teammate, Ohtani) of baseball and not at all buried in obscurity. Winning is important too, and that’s the goal, but guaranteed more people know Trout and Ohtani than any two Astros, and the Astros are the best team in baseball.
Trout’s “Q” score that measures consumer appeal of personalities is 22. That means only one in five Americans know who he is. That puts him equal to Kenneth Faried of the NBA. Exactly. To say that he’s not buried in obscurity playing for the Angels is an understatement.
Angry little guy aren’t you Joey?
Millville,
Just jealous because Trouts not on his team. Anyone in baseball knows who he his. and that’s that matters. He’s not a publicity seeking person. He’s stated that before..
I will take his Q score over your EQ score.
Q score don’t mean so much if Tom Hanks is 45 and Beyoncé is 32. Even one knows Queen B and Tom Hanks is more the older crowd.
I know two Astros, Altuve and Verlander.
Oh wait, Verlander is leaving.
Ok, I know one Astro.
Ohtani makes the most in US based endorsements of any baseball player at $12.3 million. Globally he is over $20 million. He is #2 in merchandise sales worldwide. (Not just jerseys, merchandise total)
Trout is #3 in endorsements at $3.9 million and #1 in merchandise.
Two Angels at the top of the list. So much for obscurity.
Oh, #2 in endorsements? Bryce Harper at $6.5 million.
$3m is peanuts in sports. That’s a weekend out for most ballers in the NBA. Bradley Beal makes $4.5m/year in endorsements. So what are you saying? You just proved my point regarding obscurity. $3m for the best baseball player on the planet? Thats walk around money for most high profile athletes. Keep tryin tho…
Trout’s Q score is obviously a lot higher than Joey’s IQ score, too.
Actually my IQ score is 136. How about you?
@Padsfans SHHHHH. He doesn’t want to hear facts. He wants to spew his hateful garbage all over the site. Just mute him.
You should state that people have heard the name of Trout and Ohtani. Start asking anything about them and that number dwindles quickly. Start talking about baseball to people that know baseball your numbers change completely.
Its the 3rd most in BASEBALL. It doesn’t matter what other sports make. It only matters compared to what others make in BASEBALL.
In BASEBALL there are different rules in the CBA about how and what can be done in terms of player endorsements compared to other major sports.
Your attempt to compare them is misguided at best. So please go back to your Q boards and NBA fandom allow baseball fans to discuss baseball without having to listen to your hateful drivel.
@Joeyg39 Trout’s “low Q score” is by design since it’s not what matters to him even before he signed his extension. Manfred tried to persuade him to be a more marketable persona as the face of baseball. Trout rightfully said no and mentioned he enjoys spending his free time studying and pursuing meteorology.
Glad you brought that up. MLB players are prohibited in the Collective Bargaining Agreement from doing most of the types of endorsement deals that NBA players make the lion’s share of their endorsement money from.
It’s not possible for an active MLB player to have a shoe deal or any type of wearables deal individually. More than 80% of all NBA endorsement money is on shoe deals.
Other major sports have similar individual endorsement deals that are simply not possible for MLB players.
It’s an entirely different playing field when it comes to endorsements for
MLB players. What Ohtani makes is unprecedented in baseball because of the different rules MLB players have to operate under.
If I was spreading hateful drivel I would have suggesed that Tatis Jr. should promote the PED products he was consuming in order to produce all those fake numbers he put up.
Anyone who touts his IQ score is the tool of all tools. I bet you are really tough too. Probably get all the ladies? JFC
Like Arnold said…”If you got the guns…shoot them…”
165, which only reminds me, wtf am I doing here?
That’s right: Avoiding watching the last minutes of the superb Tiger Bay (1959) because thanks to Code, I know how it’s going to end. Gah!
Pretty sure Altuve and Verlander are pretty much household names. I am sure more Astros would have been named than Angels a few years ago before so many stars left to other teams. Cole, Springer and Correa jump to mind. Yuli Gurriel is probably one of the better known baseball players in the world having been the biggest star on the traveling Cuban team for so many years.
It always helps make your point and keep people interacting with you when you post “hateful drivel” in response to other’s posts.
I would venture to say the mute button is coming from most.
Why is obscurity a bad thing? Maybe he’s happy in California, he’s rich and likes his family.
Not everyone feels the need to be a global brand.
Obscurity is never good in a product you’re so desperately trying to promote. Marketing 101…
Marketing 101: must be a desire
You missed Marketing 101 apparently. The MARKET part of it specifically.
In MLB, individual players don’t get to have the shoe or apparel deals that make up most of the endorsement money in other sports. There are many other types endorsements MLB players either can’t have or share with all other players.
You are trying to compare apples and oranges. But you are not smart enough to realize that.
To simplify, Trout just isn’t as marketable as Joey thinks he is.
Simply being good at a sport doesn’t automatically bring tons of opportunities .
Money is way more important to most of these guys than winning. If winning was all that mattered to Carlos, he’d go to a perennial contender like the Dodgers or Astros for a reduced salary.
The Dodgers and Astros aren’t contenders because they give reduced salaries. Baseball is a business. Money is the number 1 priority no matter what fans want or say.
You can thank the players union for that. They seem to always raise a stink whenever a player takes a discount to go or stay where he wants. They want and expect every free agent to get maximum value.
Such a tired take. Ted Williams and Ken Griffey Jr. had zero and Joc Pederson has 2. Mikes far from done, but WS rings are a mix of circumstance and luck.
joey-nobody has forgotten Trout. terrible take btw.
Can we just call Correa for what he is?
The Twins would be better served to let this every last $ guy go to the Dodgers
You have to give the Twins some credit for trying to resign him. It isn’t every day that a team admits to bidding against themselves. If he does sign elsewhere, it has Always been “about the money”! “ show me the money, Jerry’
Agreed. I wonder if Correa may want to sign somewhere with warmer weather.
He doesn’t live there during the winter. Most players don’t live year round where they play.
Why do you say that? I guess you believe that to be true about all free agents?
I think all those fellas are going to maximize their ability to make the best dollar.
If the Twins offered you a contract for 100,000 a year and the A’s offered you a contract for 250,000 a year where ya going to go? It’s that simple.
Multiple offers: overrated, overrated, overrated, overpaid, overpaid, overpaid…Case closed!
Maybe he should play BB in South Correa…
I’ve made repeated offers to someone on many occasions and it’s gotten me nowhere. What have I done with my life?
I feel the same…. geez
On a brighter note all of these shortstop have won at least one world series, with Bogarts winning two
But have you ever offered anyone 300 million? That’s a game-changer.
Yeah, I don’t think that’s the kind of “offer” Lloyd has made. But they might have involved money, just several zeroes short of Correa money.
I have also made offers to a woman many times. She has never come out and said NO my feeling is I still have a chance. I figured my wife should be a little more amicable.
Correa will not be signing in Minnesota again.
If they give him the most money he will.
Exactly…
If the Pirates give him the most money, he’ll sign there. Making the “most money” offer is the reason people dont think he ends up in Minnie.
They won’t be giving him the most money.
The Twins made an offer of 10 years and over $300 million. Not quite Seager money, but close. They made a shorter offer with a larger AAV than they paid him in 2022. They are not the only team in the mix so far, but that is still a huge amount of money for a small market team. The most? I guess we will see.
There’s no way the Twins offered that much money, where did you see that? I hope it’s true but a ten year offer from the Twins almost certainly came at a lower annual average, like $25 million. My guess is the 6 year offer was close to 33 million per year and then it went slightly down each year after. (6 for 200–8 for 225–10 for 250, for example).
I can almost see the Twins offering 14/280m or whatever they think is the maximum number of years they can get away with under the fine print in the MLBPA, where the handshake agreement is the last four or five years at the team’s discretion, assuming he’s no longer remotely productive, involves Carlos’ voluntary retirement at full pay—either that or his release so he can try to catch on elsewhere. Two teams gave Cano a shot, and these guys usually think they still have a good year in them, no matter what.
It’s not too far from how the Phillies tailored their offer to Harper.
He is right about the offers. The Twins signed him to a deal that paid him $35.1 million AAV and they knew that after he had such a great year and opted out that they would have to pay him more AAV if they offered less than 10 years.
According to the Twins, they made multiple offers. Several sports writers have said the rumored offers have ranged from 6/215 to 10/330.
I’m sure he wants to win too. he’s already made a ton of money
Most younger players choose cash over rings, and he already has a ring with an asterisk.
Not an asterisk he cares about either.
Relative to the cash I doubt the ring matters much either.
I haven’t seen Correa’s WC ring, but I’d put money down that there’s not an asterisk anywhere on that band
It’s all in your mind. In the real world no asterisk. Cry some more.
Probably like most of the panty-waisted athletes. Wants to play in L.A. so he can be famous and do television commercials.
milt- they really don’t do commercials like you think they do.
As far as positional players, if not Correa, who?
Correa is just too desired and wanted. Nobody can afford him.
He honestly seems like he’s going that direction with his thinking- that he’s such a valuable baseball player any contract offered him wouldn’t be enough so he’s just going to retire now to prove a point.
Big chip on his shoulder…real big.
He’ll put a big Versace sign above his bedroom door to admire by himself while everyone else keeps playing baseball.
He doesn’t seem like the type to live up to that contract at all. 9/10 years? Hell no.
He’s already pretty slow for a SS and he hasn’t even hit 30 yet. Whoever gives him 10 years at $30 million+ is going to regret it.
Barring a serious injury he’ll almost certainly be a great defensive third baseman if he ever has to move off of shortstop. He has amazing hands and a cannon.
People also need to remember in 5 or 6 years salaries will be even higher, payrolls will be higher, etc. Correa making $30 million in six years won’t be the same as someone making $30 million next season.
Twins fans acting like they’d be able to sign anyone useful with that money are kidding themselves. You’d rather have 4 Dylan Bundt’s than one Correa? Because he might not be worth the money in 7 seasons? Ridiculous. He’s a great player. I wish the Twins would keep him, but I’m sure the Dodgers will outbid them.
He’s a very good but not exactly elite hitter, he won’t be nearly as valuable at a lesser position like 3B, and when his bat inevitably begins to decline midway through the contract, his deal will become an albatross for the signing team like the overwhelming majority of other such decade long contracts.
What are you talking about King Fluch? Correa was the best hitting SS in baseball last season.
#1 in wRC+. OPS+. OPS.
He is #2 in SLG (Bichette) and wOBA.(Bogaerts)
He is the best hitting SS.
He plays good to great defense depending on if you are looking at DRS or OAA.
Why the hate that is divorced from reality?
I meant among all hitters, not just shortstops, and also his total career body of work, not just when he’s playing for a contract.
He’s a very good hitter for a SS, but if he’s not a SS anymore, which will likely be the case by roughly the midpoint of a 10 year deal based on his already below average speed and how speed/defense generally age, a lot of his value will evaporate because he is not an elite hitter.
The point is he is getting paid to be a shortstop. He was the best hitting shortstop. He will be a shortstop until he gets to his mid-30s. His defense doesn’t rely on speed, it relies on arm strength, positioning, and knowledge and that won’t go away as he ages.
If he was a 3B today, he would have been the 5th best hitter this season, as good or better than Devers. Considering 2 of the 4 ahead of him, were MVP candidates, that means he would have been an elite, 3B too.
Right now, Correa is an elite player at an elite position. Nothing you say will change that. Get over it.
He’s not going to still be playing SS in 6 years unless whoever signs him doesn’t care about defense. He’ll be a 3B or 2B by that point.
“Get over it.”
Get over what? That someone is going to sign him to a regrettable contract? As long as it isn’t my team, there will be nothing for me to “get over.”
You know this how? How many 28 year old shortstops were still playing SS at 34? Almost all of them. If they were good enough to still be playing at 34, they were at their best position.
Average shortstops that move to third base almost always become very good defenders at third. Correa is anywhere from above average to elite at shortstop right now, despite being slow. He’s not going to lose a lot of speed over time because frankly he doesn’t have a lot to lose. But if he moves to third base, his defense will undoubtedly improve. Shortstops last year posted a .685 OPS, while third basemen posted a .714 ops. That’s five percent. Correa’s defensive improvement by moving to third should come close to offsetting the five percent difference in hitting stats at each position.
Factor in that he wont have to move positions for at least four or five years, and probably even longer, it increases his value.
He was worth $50 million alone his final season in Houston. He was worth $35 million last season. His baseball iq is among the best in the game. Nothing is guaranteed but he’s a pretty safe bet to be similarly productive for quite awhile.
Teams would be much wiser to spend for Correa than Turner or Xander, unless the money is a massive difference.
Barring a serious injury he’ll almost certainly be a great defensive third baseman if he ever has to move off of shortstop. He has amazing hands and a cannon.
People also need to remember in 5 or 6 years salaries will be even higher, payrolls will be higher, etc. Correa making $30 million in six years won’t be the same as someone making $30 million next season.
Twins fans acting like they’d be able to sign anyone useful with that money are kidding themselves. You’d rather have 4 Dylan Bundy’s than one Correa? Because he might not be worth the money in 7 seasons? Ridiculous. He’s a great player. I wish the Twins would keep him, but I’m sure the Dodgers will outbid them.
Echo…echo…echo…
This mobile app is rough lol
At 27.1 ft/sec he was just above league average in sprint speed for SS. Well above average in reaction time. Great defense. Best bat in the majors among SS by wRC+ and OPS+.
You know who is slower than average at 26.1 ft/sec, whose defense was worse in OAA and DRS, who hit 23% worse, and whose contract Correa is looking to match? Corey Seager.
45th percentile sprint speed at age 28 and he’s only going to get slower as he heads into his 30s.
The Seager contract was also very ill-advised BTW.
You missed that he said that Correa is above league average sprint speed for a shortstop? That is what you brought up, SHORTSTOP, right? Or are you purposely ignoring that?
So he has slightly above average speed for his position heading into year 1 of 10 as he approaches his 30s with his defense already showing signs of slipping and no more shift.
Good luck to whoever signs him, hope it isn’t my team.
You don’t have a team. You are the fan of a team.
Thanks for clearing that up, Captain Pedantry.
What player ever lives up to a 9 Or 10 year deal?
Believe it or not, I would think many of them. I imagine from the teams’ perspective, they often treat these long contracts as sort of like deferred money. If player x gets us 200MM in value, combined from on and off the field, over five years, let’s give him 10 for 240. We reinvest the 80 we make the first five years in our business, and eat the 40 on the back end. Guys like Pujols likely had bigger negative value as a dead roster spot then the salary, as Arte likely made his bones up front and budgeted for the end of the contract years ago. To live up to the contract the player doesn’t necessarily have to provide value equal to the salary at the back of of the deal, if he creates surplus on the front of it. And value isn’t just stats on a card, it’s butts seats, merchandise, regional TV subscribers etc, etc.
MLB owners are almost all billionaires. They didn’t get that way throwing good money after bad, and guys get monster deals all the time. There must be value in them we common folk don’t readily see.
Roguesaw2 you would be very wrong if you think most live up to the 9/10 contracts. Mlb now on the mlb network has done the research and 300 mil plus contracts are usually all god awful.
Iver- You do realize that NO $300 million contract has even reached the halfway point? The three that have gone the longest, Trout, Harper, and Machado, have all been very good so far.
If you are talking about the study that MLB Network did in 2019 on $100 million contracts, they found that just over half worked out on performance on the field based on WAR.
Obviously that does not include other factors like increased ticket sales, merchandise sales, and eyes on the TV.
I think it’s pretty obvious that the answer to your question is no, he doesn’t realize that.
Most of the team owners got to be billionaires because they are pretty sharp cookies. They are not making $300 million dollar financial decisions JUST to be the best fan of their team. They are doing it to make money.
IF the big dollar deals were not making them money, they would stop doing them and spread the money around more. Common sense tells you that these deals are making them money, because year after year they keep signing these deals and the amounts are getting bigger.
Elias gives him 300MM+ to go to Baltimore, leaving O’s fans crying the money should have been spent on pitching, but… it’s Baltimore.
Chris davis…so no
I really wish people would stop with the dumb boras narrative that star players put butts in seats? There’s a handful small minuscule number of players who actually make a difference in attendance and usually the attendance is on the road. It’s really not worth talking about but yet people bring it up as if it’s a huge revenue stream for the teams.
You’re right. But players who play a significant part in teams being good do contribute to the ticket sales. I think the players that fans come to see are the special ones and they can be hitters or pitchers, or right now, both.
Correa is not one of that tiny group.
Not gonna happen. We have 3-4 shortstops now. At least one has Correa type potential. Trade for Burnes/Woodruff.
If by “we” you mean the Twins, they have one shortstop for next season at the moment and it’s Kyle farmer. Brooks Lee might be a star, but he’s unlikely to be a shortstop long term. Royce Lewis is coming off back to back acl tears and had defensive concerns already.
I agree they won’t keep him but they definitely need him.
Ohtani is really the only one who might. Strasburg did when he first came up. Other than that, I totally agree. Winning puts fans in seats, except in Tampa(they probably would on the other side of the bridge).
Ohtani puts 12% more fans in seats for games he starts. Do you realize how much money that is?
Phillies season ticket sales increased 23% and overall attendance went up 7k per game the year they signed Harper. They were still a bad team.
Padres attendance increased by 3k per game after signing Machado. That team lost 92 games his first season.
Star players put butts in seats.
Average attendance went up 4k per game in Minnesota after they signed Correa. A big part of that was COVID restrictions early in 2021, but they were up 3k from the average attendance in the last 2 months of the 2021 season when there were no restrictions to 2022 as well.
Wrong answer. Stars put butts in seats. Its not a question.
It may not be a big jump in the largest markets that are already winning, but everywhere else like Anaheim and San Diego and Philadelphia and yes, Minnesota, its a huge number.
That would be a great landing spot for Correa. Elias was instrumental in the Astros signing him and the Orioles payroll has plenty of room to add him and still fill the major holes.
Winning puts butts in seats
The Oriole’s have less than $30 million on the books after 2023 with no guaranteed contracts, just arb eligibles and guys making the minimum.
They can sign Correa and deGrom and still not come close to the CBT threshold or even their $179 million team record payroll from 2017.
John Angelos would like to win before dad kicks off. Correa would be a good first step in making that happen.
Not saying it will happen, just that it would be a good first step.
Well… considering very few have gotten 10 years, let’s look
A-Rod got 10 year deals twice and both deals worked out
Jeter got a 10 year deal, it worked out
Pujols clearly did not.
Bryce Harper and Manny Machado, so far so good
Mike Trout couldn’t be any better.
Stanton is an interesting case. I’d say a wash.
Cano, clearly awful
Votto worked out well.
Seager is too soon to tell.
Windfeld worked out.
So six clear wins, two clear loses, two edging towards the win column and one 50/50.
A-rod opted out of his first contract and yes that one was good up to that point but the 2nd one they cut him atleast 1 year early in the midst of a run to 700 hr but i believe it was a season and a half because he was so awful so the 2nd one not so much
As great as Trout is he is only into year 4 of a 12 yr contract and he was diagnosed with a rare back disease that could make that drop very quickly. I hope it doesnt effect him but seeing what happened to David Wright and rare back issues has me very pessimistic.
I might even throw strasburg on this list .. he was signed for 7 years but he is being paid siginificantly after the 7 in deferred money over 25M per year … if it was a smaller amount you could ignore that but not many players make that much in a career let alone a year and if the QO goes up on the scale his deffered money will still be even more than a QO player would get in a year.
lol Stanton a wash.
My comment wasn’t specific to 9,10 year deals but expand that from anything 6+ years and the scales tip.
Strasburg, Rendon, Heyward, hosmer.
Heck how do we feel about Miggy’s?
@dusty …. dont forget about the best 1b ever Chris Davis. … that 100% is a win
oh justbecause im sure someone will not note the sarcasm .. i was being sarcastic.
A guy ends his career with 700+ homers and his contract didn’t end well? If I had told you that he would had that many HR’s by 2022. You’d think I was crazy. Sure The Angels only went the the post season once. But C’mon.
@winslow …
I believe you are talking about Pujols and yes for the Angels this contract did not end well. No one would have guessed he would push it to 700 hrs but he went on a tear after leaving the angels. which im sure irked the angels to no end. He was worth roughly the equivalent of Ike Davis for his career on the mets (1.5 WAR per year) which means he was overpaid by over 100 million dollars over the life of that contract. .
Cano got a 10 year and it worked out too. An .806 OPS and 122 OPS+ at 2B was well worth it. He didn’t get paid for 1.5 years of that deal.
If you include all 6+ year deals its lopsided on the side of the deals worked out well for the teams.
Fans think only of the players performance on the field. Owners think about what does that player mean in terms of tickets sold and TV watchers.
Moreno has said many times that Pujols was the best deal he has ever signed because fans that normally would not come to the park, came to see him. He made Moreno money.
For team owners, that is the reason for these deals with superstar players.
Hard to believe the Angels can’t win with an owner who thinks the Pujols signing was his best. Moreno, what a rich dunce.
I think as of now,people in Philly think Harper is. See me in five years though…
Michael Nelson Trout. Hit 40HR’s while missing a month. And most of you “Back Experts” said his career was over…
@winslow
i gave you my reasons saying im pessimistic of it and hope im wrong but David Wright was supposed to be able to come back and play at a high level and never made it back. To expand, Trout came back and did very well but by his own admission he has to be extremely rigid with his conditioning and training to continue playing . With the way he plays where he gives it at all and with pitchers hitting batters at an alarming rate im skeptical. that a pitch doesnt slip and hits him in the lower back and its over with. There is a lot more possible to be negative.
Don’t forget 6.3 WAR and 178 OPS+.
@Flyby,
Well there’s all types of different back issues a player can have. Maybe Mr. Wright did not want to put in the effort and rehab it. I don’t know. But when it was announced Trout has a back issue, just about everyone on here hears “Bad Back” and they come to conclusion Trouts “DONE”.
Not a Minn fan but I’d love to see them sign Correa and have him finish his career there.
When does he land at SFO? Friday?
Thursday after pecan pie according to my sources.
Yes, but is he the cherry on top of the sundae, or is he just another cherry in the cherry pie!
For what reason would you want Correa to sign in Minn…if you’re not a Twins fan? That is THEE ONLY reason. Other than that, he will be sentenced to a completely anonymous, obscure career.
Because I don’t want the Phillies or Dodgers to sign him!
Not me, I love having a criminals name on my my wall….
With the report Boras would like to string his free agency into February or March I’m wary the Twins will wait that long.
Zakis;
I don’t think that’s going to happen with him for the reason you wrote.
With the salary he’s looking for interested teams are going to want to have an answer – even if it’s No – in time to make other moves with that money before the 2023 season starts.
As for the Twins – what he and Mr. Boras are seeing is that they have one sort-of superstar in Bryan Buxton that can’t be counted on to play; the owner is having the FO move salaries off to fit Correa in; and the intermediate future for the roster doesn’t look rosy. If they sign Correa they probably won’t follow that up by signing a few more free agents or taking on salary in trades.
If they can’t get a quality offer elsewhere the Twins are a fallback option. But even a team that’s down right now like the Giants generates enough revenue to add him and others fairly quickly, and follow that up in future years. The Twins have to stretch to fit him into the payroll budget and that’s not exactly a future championship roster they have.
@Samuel- I don’t disagree with what you’ve stated. But the Twins have more to spend than meets the eye.
Minneapolis-St Paul metro area is both a larger TV market and a larger population than the San Diego metro area.
If the Padres can spend $200 million plus, so can the Twins. They can afford Correa and the others they need to put a winning team on the field.
No report that I can find saying that. Do you have a link?
Everything I am hearing is that Correa has multiple offers on the table and wants to make a final decision by the end of the Winter Meetings. He may be hampered by Judge, but in no way is his camp trying to drag things out.
Correa’s market is limited more than some other high profile free agents. Two of the largest markets (Dodgers & Yankees) have fan bases that, perhaps rightly, mostly prohibit his signing.
I think the SS market may not necessarily move until Aaron Judge is off the board. Many of the possible suitors for several of the SS’s are the same suitors for Judge and Judge is certainly the bigger prize on the free agent market
I don’t believe this for a second.
If the yanks or dodgers sign him the fans will quickly forget everything (providing he plays well).
I very much doubt his market is any smaller than Turners
Exactly won’t be a single heard Yankee or dodger fan booing. They’ll be drown out but the 1000s that are cheering for him since he’s with us now.
Yankees fans booed Judge.
As a Yankees fan, let me weigh in. If they sign him, Yankees fans will tolerate him at best. When he does well his accomplishments will be cheered, not him. When he fails to deliver, he will be booed without mercy. Yankees fans never warmed up to ARod and he never cheated the Yankees out of a WS.
Also if he’s the consolation prize for not getting Judge back that will make it even worse.
Yes, the Yankees were not found cheating in 2017 (sarcasm). The Astros didn’t have Carlos Beltran come over from the Yankees before the 2017 season, and publicly say the Astros were behind the times in sign stealing…Oh wait that actually happened..
Yankees you didn’t get cheated out of anything, you were cheating as well…So were the Red Sox, Dodgers and other teams. You just, like them, got out-cheated.
Joe, how is that any different than any other yank player treatment?
judge won AL MVP and he had a bad 40 ABs and was boo’d. Exactly my point, if CC signs and performs, no one will care. If he doesn’t he will be treated like any other player.
Dusty Judge getting booed was wrong but it wasn’t like the entire stadium was booing. I also think that was just more frustration at the team in general than anything. All players get booed at some point but nothing like what I’m talking about. There are players the Yankees fans never truly accept. ARod and Stanton immediately come to mind. If they don’t sign Judge and Hal gives us Correa, it will not go over well at all.
The pitchers available can make a contending team a winner in the playoffs, a hitter not so much. Even Judge and the top SS, might not hit in a short series, while a great starting pitcher like deGrom when healthy could dominate!
Carlos Beltran did not come out and publicly say the Astros needed to cheat. That’s an urban legend fabricated by Astros fans because they can’t bear to admit their team were the biggest cheaters in MLB history and stole a WS. Yankees were investigated and exonerated. They didn’t have the necessary equipment. RS were investigated and fined for cheating a few games. Dodgers were accused. Astros were proven to have cheated ALL SEASON LONG. Big difference. Only Astros fans can’t admit it. They just accuse others. They have no intellectual honesty at all. No integrity.
Not accepting ARod and Stanton is just dumb. You’ve got players who are going to be with you a decade or more and you never get behind them? You ride them the whole way? Even though you are depending on them to deliver? Lunacy. Childish. Cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Yankees have too many needs to go deep into the playoffs this year. They need like 3 top shelf players. They need Judge, Turner and Verlander or deGrom or Rodon. They could also use a solid left-handed middle reliever (assuming King and Holmes are healthy; otherwise they need late inning help better than Wandy Peralta and Albert Abreu and Lucas Leutge). Hal doesn’t have that kind of money. It would put them up over $300M. He’d never go there let alone accept the luxury tax. Not going to happen. And the WS is not going to happen. Again.
I’ve always been puzzled by the lack of acceptance of ARod and Stanton but it definitely exists.
I would understand the lack of acceptance of Correa though. I never want to see him in pinstripes. He may be better than what they have now but they can get a top SS without it being him.
As I mentioned earlier, I would cheer his accomplishments if he comes to NY but I would never cheer him.
Definitely agree with you on Correa, Joe says…
Its actually from report from Rosenthal and Evan Drellich on The Athletic and they got that information from the office of the Commissioner.
The Yankees were NOT exonerated. They were fined. The letter they tried to block the release of in court for 3 years laid that out clearly.
The Yankees and Red Sox cheating was the entire reason that the Commissioner sent a memo to the team owners in September 2017 telling them to cut that stuff out and spelling out that it was in fact against the rules. There had also been two other teams that made accusations that season in public and one of them accused the Dodgers.
In the Commissioners report he said that in addition to the Astros, Red Sox, and Yankees, 9 other teams were caught cheating in a similar fashion utilizing a live game feed. They all stopped when the memo was sent out, so he chose not to name them.
It came out later in the media that the Dodgers were one of those teams.
Fans for the most part are idiots. They act on emotions.
Arod was the worst of the worst. He got caught cheating and then lied about it and kept cheating. Not accepting him makes sense.
Correa cheated in 2017. Its been 5 years. Accepting him makes sense.
ARod wasn’t accepted before anyone knew about the PEDs.
People, allow me to correct Utah: the Yankees were
Utah, allow me to correct your delusional nonsense:
1. You claim the Yankees did not have the necessary equipment. That’s false because they had all the equipment they needed: a replay room and a dugout phone. You’re wrong.
2. You’re a huge a hypocrite. You claim Astros fans lack intellectual honesty as well as integrity and yet you do the exact same thing that you accuse us of doing: refusing to admit that your team cheated. The difference between me and you is that I don’t mind admitting my team cheated. Perhaps denial is just your way of coping with the truth, aka the Yankees cheated.
3. Just because third degree murder is worse than 1st or 2nd degree does not mean it’s ok some one to commit 1st or 2nd degree murder. Deny it all you want but the Yankees cheated in 2015 and part of 2016 and that will never not be true.
Joe Says, the Astros cheating is not to blame for the Yankees being unable to score on the road in the 2017 ALCS. Because of that, the Yankees were not cheated out of anything. Their offense being shut down is the true reason why they lost in the 2017 ALCS. Even if the Astros didn’t cheat, due to the way their pitching stifled the Yankees offense in Houston, all the Astros have to do is score 2 runs in games 1, 2, 6, and 7. They had all the talent they need to do it.
Alex Rodriguez was a symptom of all that was wrong with baseball at that time. He was an unrepentant cheater who felt his big earnings justified being a scum of a person.
If as a fan you were accepting of that guy, then please raise your hand now so I can block or mute you.
His first at bat in Yankee Stadium as a Yankee.
https://youtu.be/RRTQ4fT04zc
Not hearing any boos, are you?
In fat it appears he got a standing ovation.
https://youtu.be/mKqBZOQchik
The Dodgers were already linked to Correa earlier this off-season. The Yankees I strongly doubt would be interested in any shortstop at the moment because they have three high ceiling prospects and couldn’t afford one and Judge even if they didn’t.
Back to the Dodgers, Correa would be a Friedman type move… smart. Turner and Correa are going to command similar salaries, Correa slightly more but slightly better and younger, so you get a better, younger player and a prospect when Turner signs elsewhere.
Correa being better is dependant on the length of the deal. In a 5 year scenario I would take Turner.
I agree with you on the idea that determining the best player being dependent on the length of the deal.
Turner is already older than Correa and so much of Turner’s game is dependent on speed and his defense is already not as good as Correa’s. His decline is going to come fast and its going to be steep.
If you are talking about a deal that ends with his age 34 season, I would take Turner over Correa every day and twice on Sunday.
If you are talking about a deal that takes either of them to age 38 or later, I would not touch Turner with a 60’6″ pole.
Correa with hold out on signing till next December. Just in time for the 2024 season.The bid won’t be high enough until then. Hope he stays in shape during the 14+ months he isn’t playing.
And he took both offers, rolled them up in to a ball and tossed them in his trash can.
Did the Twins throw in Kielbasa
If they did, they may re sign him
no kielbasa. it was trash can punch.
Yum, but not as worthy as Kielbasa is
Mindful of his size and his injury history, the Twins can’t possibly think he’ll stick at shortstop for 9-10 years. Of the 20 qualified shortstops in 2022 listed on the MLB site, only one, Nico Hoerner, played fewer games than Correa.
If I were mulling an enormous contract to him, I’d be thinking about what position he might have to move to in the future and if that position could be more economically filled.
Doesn’t matter if he moves to 3B. Dude rakes
Career wRC+ is higher than both Machado and Arenado’s
@GMoney2850 WRC+ is a garbage stat. It penalizes players like Arenado and Machado for playing in high offensive environments like Coors Field and Baltimore’s old park. Its been shown clearly that Arenado and Machado can both hit outside these “High offensive environments”. Park adjusted stats really are a terrible measure of performance in my opinion. You can even look at guys like Matt Chapman, whos doing the same hitting he did in the A’s park but hes rated as a worse hitter now because he plays in a more offensive park
First year in STL Arenado had a obp like .50 below his standard in CO and a slg like .75 less. Machado was down considerably as well.
One good year for each doesn’t prove anything. You really expect dudes to put up the same numbers in super hitter-friendly environments as they would anywhere else?
Yikes
Also Chapman had 3 years of .500+ slg in Oakland and slugged .433 last year. Wtf are you even talking about lol
He seems comparably sized to A-Rod/Machado. I think 3B would likely keep him healthier while increasing his total games. I still wouldn’t go 9 or 10 on him though.
Honestly, he would probably be moved by 30, at the latest. That actually makes him a good candidate for teams with an up-and-coming SS.
My first choice is Turner. But, I can certainly see the ‘22-‘23 Yankees prioritizing the draft picks & Int’l FA monies over a better player (for the Yankees roster) in Turner.
Nonetheless, as much as I dislike Correa, viewing this objectively, if they intended on sliding him to 3B he would be a big asset to that team as opposed to doing nothing on the left side of the IF. We really have no true 3Bman at this time that can support the offense required of the position.
And they might put a better defensive third baseman there and, with the savings from avoiding an albatross contract, fill other positions of need and field a more complete team, as opposed to possibly being financially straitened by the salary of one player.
Franchises in the upper financial echelon can absorb big mistakes. That doesn’t seem to be the Twins. The Twins’ spending has been middle-of-the-pack for years.
This reply is to GMoney, btw.
If he’s bad at moving to his left, and that’s what Statcast shows (only one shortstop this year, Rosario, had a worse negative rating on plays to his left), he might not be able to move to third base successfully.
People have tended to misinterpret the defensive spectrum, and there’s been a lot of corrective analysis in recent years. Just because a position ranks lower on the spectrum doesn’t mean a player can automatically shift to a lower position and excel. Players have known this for a long time:
“It’s much more difficult for a shortstop or second baseman to move to third than vice versa… At second and shortstop, you can position yourself after the ball is hit. You just don’t have time at third.” – Brooks Robinson
“I used to get hit in the cup at third, then I moved to shortstop, and I never got hit in the cup. Then I moved back to third and got hit in the cup again.” – Cal Ripken
Cubs fans got to witness this twice recently with two gold glove caliber defenders at shortstop (Addison Russell and Simmons) who got moved to second base and could not field a lick. Both players looked completely lost playing second base…
This is also why the Cubs and Red Sox are rumored to be in the mix for shortstops despite having stellar defensive shortstops already on the roster. Nico Hoerner played outstanding shortstop defense (and got robbed not being a GG finalist) and Story has a long track record of being a plus defender at short. Both players also a plus plus defenders at second base and teams want to negate the shift rule as much as possible.
**Story may also still have throwing issues.
Correa could probably DH. I don’t think he’d agree to that though.
Over the last 3 seasons, only 8 players have started more games at SS.
https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2022&month=0&season1=2020&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2020-01-01&enddate=2022-12-31&sort=3,d
Now go back one more year and 22 players have played more games at shortstop than Correa:
https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2022&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2022-12-31&sort=3,d
When teams evaluate free agents, they look back 3 seasons. They may look at career averages, but recent performance is weighted more heavily.
Not one FO exec I know would be any more concerned about Correa’s durability than they would Judge’s or Seager’s.
What they would be most concerned about is recent performance and age. The aging curve is so consistent that many in the game consider it almost a law, like the Law of Gravity. In fact, Antonetti called it “the first law of baseball operations”.
Aging is one thing. Injuries, another.
A 6′ 4″ 220-lb. shortstop with repeated back injuries that caused him to miss 71 days isn’t the same as, say, a 6′ 1″ 185-lb. outfielder with no significant injury history. So, talking about the likelihood of his durability as if it were predetermined by an aging curve is nonsense. Athletes aren’t machines.
Don’t get me wrong. If the Yankees signed Correa, I’d be fine with that — provided that ownership didn’t refuse to keep funding the team on a level commensurate with their huge market if he got injured again and his contract turned into another in a series of bad ones.
But what the Yankees can afford is probably not the same as what the Twins can afford, and we’re talking about what Boras is trying to exact from the Twins, aren’t we?
Correa at 6’4″, 220 lbs has played more games at shortstop at age 25-27 than Judge did at age 28-30 over the past 3 seasons. Judge is a 6’7″, 300 lb CF.
What were Correa’s injuries the last 3 seasons? Covid, Covid, and a HBP that kept him out a couple games.
How about Judge? A stress fracture in his right lower rib and a collapsed lung early in 2020 and later in the season a calf injury. Then in 2021? What Boone called “a nebulous soreness in his lower body” and later a pain in his left lower rib cage. In 2022? The official injury was “lower body tightness”.
Which are you saying we should be more worried about them getting injured?
“Correa at 6’4″, 220 lbs has played more games at shortstop at age 25-27 than Judge did at age 28-30 over the past 3 seasons. Judge is a 6’7″, 300 lb CF.”
Judge played center field of necessity this year, but his normal position is right field, and he played only five fewer games in right field than in center field this year.
Unless the figures supplied to the public are erroneous, Judge weighs 282 lbs., not 300 lbs.
He missed only 12 days on the IL in 2021 on the Covid list. In fact, he and Correa played the exact same number of games in 2021, 148.
In 2020, he missed 34 days with a calf strain,
He missed no days with the fractured rib and collapsed lung, which occurred late in the season in 2019. He played through the injuries and then healed over the offseason and missed no games in 2020 because the pandemic delayed the start of the season, allowing him to heal completely.
If we’re going to compare their durability, let’s compare years they both were playing.
Carlos’s rookie year was 2015. Judge’s rookie year was 2017.
From 2017 through 2022, Judge played 702 games and Correa played 636.
You said teams look back three seasons to evaluate players. I’d be interested in knowing where that information comes from, as I’ve never heard it before. In any case, since the 2020 season was only 60 games long, we need to go from 2019-2022 to get at least three full seasons, so let’s do that.
From 2019-2022, Judge played in 435 games and Correa played in 417.
And you know what? None of this matters if they’re healthy now and stay healthy. It only matters if they get hurt again and how badly. That’s a constant hazard in baseball. Carlos could step awkwardly pivoting after a hot grounder and pull up lame. Judge could run into a wall. Either could get hit by a pitch. We can, and do, speculate on the likelihood of future injuries based on past injuries; but if we’re honest, the future is unpredictable.
I’ve done some searches and have yet to find a definitive analysis of the respective injury risk to position players by position.
Both players pose an injury risk, but how much so is impossible for me to say. All players risk injury every time they take the field.
Imaging thinking he’s actually gonna stay in Malariapolis lol
Minneapolis is rated #6 on a list of the most livable cities in the U.S.
https://livability.com/best-places/2022-top-100-best-places-to-live-in-the-us/#:~:text=Best%20Places%20to%20Live%20in%20the%20US%20in,Livscore%3A%20659%20%7C%20Population%3A%20200%2C133%20…%20More%20items
U.S. News & World Report ranks it #27:
https://realestate.usnews.com/places/rankings/best-places-to-live
Have you ever been there?
@ Fink What that heave to with picking a baseball team to play on? With a player it $$$$ Numero UNO and 2nd the talent.. Minnesota is ranked #27? Where is it ranked with the other 29 MLB locations?
Winslow, I’m not citing the livability of the city in reference to baseball contracts (although I’m sure players consider that when thinking about moving their families to new neighborhoods).
I’m just questioning GMoney2850’s comment in which he seems to be crapping on the city by calling it Malariapolis. Notably, I asked if he’d ever been there, and he never answered.
Two sites published comprehensive analyses of the city to rate the quality of life there and rated it highly. And a random poster who hasn’t confirmed he’s ever been there posted a putdown of the place. You can draw your own conclusions.
Statcast says that since 2016, Correa rates -16 OAA moving to his left. Why do you assume he’d move to third base? Maybe he’d move to the outfield like Tatis, Jr.
Machado and Arenado both have a higher fWAR than Correa since 2016. Staying on the field is valuable.
Durability is a different thing entirely. You’re talking about a positional change.
He’d still be quite valuable at 3B even as an average defender
But what if he does the Time Warp?
It’s just a jump to the left….
Most assume he would move to 3B because he has one of the strongest arms in baseball and most elite SS end their careers at 3B.
fWAR uses UZR which has been completely inaccurate during that time because it uses a zone and doesn’t take into account the shift. The percentage of shifting makes any stat that doesn’t keep track of the shift useless.
Those two still have a slightly higher bWAR but since they are the best at 3B, that is not a knock on Correa at all.
Tatis Jr. may be moving because of injury, not performance.
He wants to go back to Houston, bet he misses the banging sound.
Only banging sound is in yo head.
Imagine thinking the trash can banging thing is still funny? Get over it. They won again without the trash can. And woulda won in 2017 without too. It’s not debatable.
Once a cheater, always a cheater.
So the Yankees, Red Sox, A’s, Giants, and Cardinals are still cheaters?
He seems like an egomaniac if he isn’t going to take any of these 10 year/$300M-ish deals because he *has* to be the highest paid player at his position or in the league.
I honestly wonder if he is going to wait out Judge and see what Judge gets and then try to ask for more than Judge over equivalent years- regardless of their different positions, values as players, etc.
I am guessing it’s for 6 years/$211.65M, 7 years/$245.7M, 8 years/$280.8M, 9 years/$315.9M or 10 years/$328M or something….
All of these amounts would match or be very close to his $35.1M salary from last year and I do not see how he could justify asking for any more than that going forward, especially on a long term pact.
If what he wants is to break records, he may need to “settle” for like 3 years/$111M ($37M AAV) or 4 years/$146M ($36.5M AAV) etc. but I cannot imagine any team was convinced by his performance last year to pay him more than $35.1M a season and even that feels like such a gross over pay.
I wonder if every single team got together (setting aside how collusion is not a good or legal thing) and collectively agreed on his true market value, it would be way less than $35.1M- or more- per season.
My personal opinion? He will be worth it on a 5 year/$140M deal, he might be worth it on a 6 year/$190M deal, 7 year/$225M deal, etc.
Basically his value will go down and he isn’t worth top dollar, but that doesn’t mean he’s worthless and he should come down to earth on his self valuation and the league shouldn’t capitulate to his egomania.
The other idea I like is that he just retire right now and say it’s because no amount of money could represent the true value of his play, so any offer he’d get would be an insult, hence he’s walking away knowing in his heart that he’s the most valuable player ever.
You say it’s all about his ego that he wants the most money possible but that is from the baseball fans perspective of it. Every single MLB player due to hit the free agency market in the coming years wants him to break contract records when it comes to the dollar amount. These guys root for each other to get as much money as possible in hopes it increases the market when it is their turn to go through it. We as fans bash baseball players for the ridiculous money they make and say they’re only about the money and not winning but I don’t blame them, this is their career and how they earn their living. They should try to make as much as they can, that is what 95% of us do in our career worlds. The only difference is people aren’t paying money to watch what the majority of us do to make a living.
I love it when people claim certain players are greedy… look at how much Correa donates to charity and then call him greedy.
You are correct, most players feel an obligation to the union to sign the biggest contracts possible, years and dollars. That is so the future players reap the benefits as well. Ian Happ speaks about this at great lengths as it relates to him always going to arbitration with the Cubs. He isn’t “greedy”, he knows that any dollar left on the table is a dollar a future player isn’t getting. (Also why he is a union rep).
The difference with Correa is that he thinks he’s the best player in baseball and deserves the most money. He’s not and he doesn’t. That’s different than any other player just wanting the most money they can get. See?
Thank you. It’s not that Correa isn’t worth a high salary or a long term contract. It’s that he thinks he’s worth the most.
His 162 game average WAR is indeed 7.2, but he never stays healthy long enough to get close to that.
At best Correa should expect a pro rated version of that valuation. So he actually averages closer to 125 games. 7.2/162 x 125 = 5.55 WAR- WAR is around $5.83M per 1 WAR for most free agents. So he’s actually worth $32.388M per season.
I bet if he dropped his ask to 9 years/$292.5M he’d get signed tomorrow and he’d be worth it. That’d give him an equivalent 10 year/$327.6M free agency guarantee.
That’d be a fair- if he wasn’t seen as an injury prone player who will miss a lot of time- which he historically is.
I think he’s worth 5 years/$170M ($34M AAV) w/ a couple of $35.9M vesting option followed by a $35M vesting option based on time not spent on the IL, etc. that wound total 8 years/$276M. An AAV of $34.5M- an extremely fair value.
But he isn’t worth record breaking dollars and guaranteed years.
What was Lindor’s contract again?
Angels on a 6/200
That would be such a Moreno thing to do. Correa and Rendon can have lockers next to each other.
Happy Thanksgiving, Prov!
Happy Thanksgiving Clipper!
The Tiger’s have to be rooting for Minnesota to get him, he had zero impact on the games against them. The fans in Minnesota are praying the team does not step on the Correa land mind. It feels like a waste to blow money trying to win the Central Division. It’s Minnesota, so it will help Detroit if they land that albatross.
Houston moved on and now have the best S.S in the game, pure clutch there. For a few million more, go get Judge. 62 homer’s versus 22, the math says YES ! It just seems like a waste to go for Correa for that much money. I think will help the other teams in the Division so I say go for it.
Correa hit .298/.365/.474/.839 against the Tigers. .348/.375/.652/1.027 in Comerica Park. I am quite sure they would love for him to move out of the Central.
Pena is a great player, but not yet the caliber of Correa. His 101 OPS+ just does not compare favorably to 140 and no one pays attention to single year defensive metrics.
What Pena is, is much cheaper. That was Crane’s major incentive to allow Correa to leave. Crane has never signed a player to a deal longer than 7 years, even that only once, and he only offered Correa 6 years. Correa wanted 10-12. He will get that this offseason.
I have serious doubts that Correa will get 12 years. A ten year deal would carry him through his age 37 season and that is as long of a deal as I think he will get.
He was protected in Houston line up. He was younger with “potential”. He has been overrated forever to make him the main WAR MLB advanced metric cartoon. Even the MLB writers SS comparison in the open market use different metrics trying to make him the outstanding one, or the favorite one or the best. Without ever a 30/100 season, thinking WAR wins games and not rbis or runs, thinking WAR can carry a team to post season alone. Trying to avoid the reality Baseball is a team effort. CC had potential, not anymore. His comment about Jeter and cheating facts, talk about his character. This egocentric player is an average batting and fielding individual today. WAR value is overrated, so is him. Nobody should pay him today or in the future, nobody in his right mind, for past post season performances due to the protected Houston line up then and cheating. Sorry CC, his agent and some of their employees commenting here.
I’m sorry your wife left you.
Also, you do know WAR is correlated to all those stats if you take a step back. Do you think a person who inherits a family business doing 1b a year in revenue. Is a better CEO than a person who starts their own from scratch and does 100m/yr?
WHAT A SNOWJOB.
Winter has arrived in Minnesota.
None of the top 4 SS will end up playing for Minnesota
I always get a nice chuckle whenever a player signs with another team and at the press conference, they talk about how much they love the city they signed with and they want to win a ring there.
Don’t forget about how God led them to this decision. God is really good at leading players to the highest bidder every time and never the team with less fortunes yet a greater need for assistance.
One team is going to regret giving Correa all that money. I personally think Francisco Lindor is the most overpaid player in the whole league per his performance. I know shortstop is a valuable position and I also know he is a good hitter for a shortstop. The problem is, hes getting paid like a 300 Batting average, sub 400 OBP, 35-40 homerun guy when hes clearly not that. Ill give Lindor some credit since he plays basically almost every single game. My biggest fault agaisnt Lindor is that not only does he strikeout too much but, he almost never comes through when you need a hit in meaningful games (Other than the Mets Yankee 3 hr game he had last year). Correa is basically Lindor with less power and worse defense with a liability factor of getting hurt almost every season.
Not to mention the potential for bigotry.
“He almost never comes through when you need a hit in meaningful games”. That’s an odd thing to say about a guy who is coming off a season where his wRC+ in low leverage was 106, medium leverage was 149, and high leverage was 187. He was 8th in the majors in WPA and 15th in clutch rating. Those are offensive contributions only and don’t account for the excellent defense at a premium position.
He’s not providing value and cost efficiency like Andres Gimenez is, but it’s the Mets. You can afford to pay market value for top talents who deliver performance (and absorb cost inefficiencies when they don’t). All you really need to do is develop back of the rotation pitching, bullpen pieces, and non premium position regulars.
Redsox should sign Judge 1st it fills the most needs they lack and flips Bos & NY immediately in divisional standings. Then go after Turner, Correa, Bogey in that order. Bail on Swanson shifting Story to SS & starting Christian Arroyo as the full time 2b or full time as a utility playing 5 or more games a week spelling rest for 1b, 2b, SS, 3b & RF or LF, DH. No matter what happes Arroyo needs 450 to 600 abs NOW IS HIS TIME! Play the man! But lock him up cheap 1st because he is the diamond waiting to shine in his prime right now for the next 7 to 9 years. Pitching wise JV or DeGrom seems the way to go for Starters. Round out the bullpen & extend Devers & call it a real solid shot at a ring in 2023
Lol. Easy peasy
Call me crazy but I think the Red Sox should sign deGrom, Verlander, Judge, Correa, Contreras and Abreu… then hope and pray for another 60 game season so their pitchers can actually make the majority of their starts.
guru – I must have missed it, when did Cohen buy the Red Sox?
But anyone signing Judge (and I still feel he’s not going anywhere), is going to pay for decline right out of the gate. That’s not due to age only; it’s because he’s most likely going to regress right away. That platform season you’ll be paying for is in the rearview mirror. Let’s say he signs for 8 years – first 3-4 are going to be fine. After that, it’s anybody’s guess. And that’s IF he stays healthy.
He’ll carry the legacy of a cheater. Try to wash that off.
I bet you never made a mistake when you were 22 years old.
Maybe you should try to wash off the legacy of being a d-bag.
If he feels contrite about making a mistake, so called, he should come out and admit exactly what was done and who was involved.
Whichever team signs Correa will have to give him opt out years and thus have to listen for years to his references to “I know what I’m worth,” looking to next bigger contract.
Lindor got 10/341. Correa has 1/35.1 already. If he gets 9/306 on this deal he can have his feel goods about being the highest paid.
As a twins fans I don’t really want him. Would rather have one of the other three.
I feel like all these huge contacts are part due to the fact that there’s no salary cap..when a player has a couple of good seasons in a row(or even one year), they ask for the moon and they get it. Then, it completely changes the market: most of the following contracts are based on the huge contract the player x received. Its endless really
Something will begin to change because less people are watching the games and less people have traditional cable TV packages. All of the money in the game is based around these TV deals which are no longer grabbing the amount of viewers they once did.
Baseball-Reference has his 2023 projected stats to regress. That’s not a good sign. Not going to sign a guy who’s past his prime. Pass…
But with that criteria, Old York, who are you going to sign? Most FA’s ae going to be past their prime at some point in the deal. In fact, the way baseball defines “prime” is changing – it’s much earlier than they used to think.
I’d be worried about any such k. Correa don’t want to work. He just wants to bang on the can all day.
Agree w most except maybe Trout just bc he seems to miss significant time w injury every year now, and that hurts any team more than most seem to think. And Votto id say a big no, 4 years out of 9 have lived up to that contract, and they’ve wanted to unload it plenty of times w no takers. The others I’m mostly there w you.
Well, another one I’m going to be wrong about. The Twins are going to re-sign Correa. Oh well, it won’t be the last one I get wrong.
Much Better to sign Verlander and another ACE… Pitching wins championships… star shortstops sell tickets..
I think any big signing helps sell tickets. But yeah, I agree that pitching wins. No doubt.
Correa is only going back to Minnesota if no other contender wants him.
I’d rather they spent that money on a couple of good starters.
If the Vikings had a real quarterback, I would move them into Super Bowl contender but Kurt Cousins is an indecisive human being and that is a terrible trait to have as a QB. As much as it pains me to take the Patriots, I think they go into Minnesota and leave with a w.
well that and 3 (or is it 4) of the top 4/5 CB’s are out as well is their LT who had been a shut down OL up until his first concussion.
LaVelle Neal regularly makes things up, and also pushes the nonsense that “player just didn’t want to come to Minnesota because it’s cold”. I take everything he says with a grain of salt
Some people really don’t like the cold. I know I don’t. And climate is important to me. I’d pick San Diego all day long, even with the taxes. A mild year-round climate is worth it. And having the ocean nearby is a big bonus.
No, he makes that claim on every. Single. Missed free agent. And there are plenty of other cold markets
The Twins are not the only team that has offered Correa 10 years. They are not the only team that has surpassed $300 million.
Pay the man!
Looks like the deals he has on the table from the Twins range from 6/215 to 10/325. At least 2 other teams have made offers in excess of $300 million.
From everything I am hearing, Correa would like to have this completed by end of the Winter Meetings in San Diego if possible.
I think that nothing is going to happen with Correa or any of the other major free agents until Judge signs, but it will be only a matter of a day or so after when Correa inks a new deal.
In related news, Carlos Correa have reportedly made multiple laughing noises to the Twins.
I’m hoping the Angels sign Turner. Then fix the bullpen, And if Moreno gave Carte Blanch Sign a Good SP and we’re off to the races.