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Cardinals Expect To Move DeJong, Several Pitchers; O’Neill Unlikely To Be Traded

By Steve Adams | July 25, 2023 at 2:52pm CDT

The Cardinals’ logjam in the outfield has been well-documented by now, but one path to alleviating that situation apparently isn’t under consideration at this time; Katie Woo of The Athletic reports that the Cardinals plan to hold onto O’Neill at this year’s deadline.

Elsewhere on the roster, the Cards have made clear to other clubs that they expect to trade starters Jordan Montgomery and Jack Flaherty as well as shortstop Paul DeJong, ESPN’s Jeff Passan reports. Passan adds Jordan Hicks as a possible trade candidate, and it’s only natural that righty Chris Stratton — another potential free agent — would also be on the block.

Moving the 28-year-old O’Neill at this stage would unequivocally be selling low. The two-time Gold Glove winner and eighth-place finisher in 2021 NL MVP voting has played in just 130 games since Opening Day 2022, batting a paltry (by his standards) .229/.309/.381 in 502 plate appearances along the way. It’s a far cry from O’Neill’s mammoth .286/.352/.560 batting line and 34 homers in 2021.

The Cards control O’Neill through the 2024 season, as he’ll be arbitration-eligible for the final time this offseason. Woo quotes both O’Neill and manager Oli Marmol in a piece that Cards fans, in particular, will want to read. Broadly speaking, the organization believes an emphasis on routine and collaborative communication can help O’Neill remain on the field more regularly (though that makes the decision to buck his routine by placing him in center field early in the season seem particularly curious).

O’Neill is one of several outfielders vying for playing time in St. Louis. Lars Nootbaar has become entrenched in center field, and top prospect Jordan Walker is currently patrolling right field. O’Neill’s return pushed former top prospect Dylan Carlson to a bench role, and there’s been ample reporting and speculation on the possibility of a Carlson trade looming on the horizon. First baseman/outfielder and utilitymen extraordinaire Brendan Donovan and Tommy Edman also factor into the outfield mix — at times being pushed there by Nolan Gorman’s presence at second base.

The Cards would also be selling low on Carlson in many ways, though the 24-year-old switch-hitter’s remaining three seasons of club control beyond the current year give him more appeal than O’Neill’s one remaining year. Carlson’s ability to play all three outfield spots — center field, in particular — at a high level could also increase the chances of landing direly needed controllable pitching in a trade. O’Neill certainly isn’t likely to command that type of return on the heels of two injury-plagued seasons; he only just returned from a 60-day IL stint thanks to a back strain.

The likely trades of Montgomery and Flaherty have been discussed ad nauseum by now. Both are free agents at season’s end. Montgomery is the more valuable arm at present, touting a 3.37 ERA, 21.7% strikeout rate, 6.4% walk rate and 45.2% grounder rate in 115 innings. He’d be a veritable lock to receive and reject a qualifying offer, so the Cardinals figure to insist on greater value than a 2024 compensatory pick in return. He’s being $10.01MM in 2023.

Flaherty looked like a burgeoning ace in 2019 but has seen several recent seasons ruined by injury. He’s been healthy in ’23, pitching 104 2/3 innings of 4.49 ERA ball. His 22.2% strikeout rate is roughly average, but his 11.3% walk rate is a glaring red flag. He’s three years younger than Montgomery and earning roughly half the salary ($5.4MM) in 2023, however.

DeJong’s status as a likely trade target registers as a clear bonus for the Cards. Entering the season, he didn’t even appear like a lock to make the roster, having slashed just .182/.269/.352 in 190 games from 2021-22. But DeJong has enjoyed a rebound season in ’23, hitting .237/.304/.424 (101 wRC+) with his typical brand of plus defense. With about $3.29MM remaining on his contract (plus a $2MM buyout on next year’s $12.5MM option), DeJong now seems affordable and productive enough to be a viable trade candidate — particularly if the Cardinals help out financially in any sense. DeJong’s bat has cooled after a torrid start, but his overall batting line is about league average, he’s shown some power and he’s played good defense.

Both Hicks and Stratton are natural trade candidates, too. Hicks is likely more appealing and costlier to acquire, given his youth and triple-digit heater. The 26-year-old is averaging better than 100 mph on his sinker and has a 1.88 ERA dating back to early May, punching out batters at a gaudy 31.4% of his hitters with an 8.5% walk rate and mammoth 66.7% grounder rate. Stratton, 33 next month, has a 4.38 ERA with better peripheral marks (27% strikeout rate, 7.1% walk rate, 3.01 FIP, 3.37 SIERA).

In any trade, St. Louis is eyeing near-MLB-ready pitching, Passan adds. That, again, is hardly a surprise and has long been speculated upon, given the team’s lack of rotation clarity beyond the current season. Both Montgomery and Flaherty are free agents. Adam Wainwright is retiring. Steven Matz and Matthew Liberatore have struggled.

Many of the names in question wouldn’t fetch a close-to-the-Majors arm in a straight-up swap, but someone like DeJong or Stratton could potentially be packaged with Flaherty or Hicks to improve the Cards’ return. Either Montgomery or certainly Carlson on his own could feasibly fetch immediate but unproven pitching help — Montgomery’s status as a rental notwithstanding. For instance, the Cards themselves traded away a big league-ready arm last summer when they shipped Johan Oviedo to the division-rival Pirates in order to acquire Stratton and Jose Quintana, who was then a rental player. Oviedo has struggled in July but notched a 4.06 ERA through his first 16 starts and is controllable through the 2027 season.

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Newsstand St. Louis Cardinals Chris Stratton Dylan Carlson Jack Flaherty Jordan Hicks Jordan Montgomery Paul DeJong Tyler O'Neill

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148 Comments

  1. Dodger Dog

    2 years ago

    It’s weird that at no point in this post is “O’Neill ‘s first name mentioned.

    4
    Reply
    • Captain-Judge99

      2 years ago

      I’m a Yankees fan obviously, and I could of told you O’Neill wasn’t going to be moved. Carlson or Donovan? Now that’s another story. I like Bellinger better then both of those players. Basically, get whoever’s cheapest at this point, via trade.

      1
      Reply
      • Little Stevie Janowsky

        2 years ago

        Donovan isn’t being moved, especially not to the Yankees. It will take a massive amount of value to get him and the Yankees don’t have anything.

        1
        Reply
        • Captain-Judge99

          2 years ago

          Who wants him Stevie? I would much rather have Bellinger instead. We both know he’s the better all around ball player anyway. Sounds like you wanna part with Carlson, though?

          3
          Reply
        • Little Stevie Janowsky

          2 years ago

          What would make you want bellinger instead?
          Are you in love with his dreamy eyes? Because besides from that I can’t fathom why anyone on this planet would want bellinger over Donovan. You can have Carlson. Give us marinaccio and Hamilton and it’s a deal. Two relievers for your new left fielder.

          4
          Reply
        • rocky7

          2 years ago

          Wow….the hype train is rolling on Donovan…..Bellinger is a former MVP…exactly what performance matches anything close to that….albeit Bellinger has had a couple of pretty bad campaigns but still defensively there is no comparison between the two……massive hype on this guy and aol the fringe outfielders of the Cards….keep em…..PLEASE Cash don’t make another mistake!

          3
          Reply
        • BradBaar

          2 years ago

          It would be hard to appreciate the phenomenon that is Brendan Donovan if you don’t watch him day-in & day-out. The kid is frigg’n awesome. He’s a gold glover wherever you play him. He’s hitting better than Arreaz the past month. He’s added power this year. He’s clutch as heck. What doesn’t the kid do? Yanks, and most teams, simply don’t have anyone like him and if the Cards trade him I’ll be devastated. .

          3
          Reply
        • THEY LIVE!!!

          2 years ago

          Isn’t Donovan the guy who can’t throw a baseball??

          1
          Reply
        • BradBaar

          2 years ago

          Knowing Donny, he’ll start throwing left handed and be great at it. Just give him a couple days to buy a RH mitt and stretch out his left arm..

          Reply
        • Captain-Judge99

          2 years ago

          Cashman says no deal for either!

          Reply
        • Sportsmutt

          2 years ago

          Good response BB.

          Reply
        • Sportsmutt

          2 years ago

          Carlson would hit 30 over that joke of a wall in right.

          Reply
        • belkiolle

          2 years ago

          Trade Carlson for two relievers and in two years you’ll be griping about him being another Arozarena that Mo traded away.

          Reply
      • Win Cor

        2 years ago

        The Yankees should be targeting Dylan Carlson and do anything to get him. Perfect fit for what’s going on there right now. Defensive Runs Saved is key. DeJong should be looked a too. Bellinger is ‘Hot Garbage’. don’t be fooled.

        1
        Reply
      • gbs42

        2 years ago

        “could have” or “could’ve” but not “could of”

        Reply
    • avenger65

      2 years ago

      I noticed that, too, and now I can’t think of his first name.

      1
      Reply
      • waterdog311

        2 years ago

        It’s Paul, but he goes by Buck.

        3
        Reply
        • fearthecub

          2 years ago

          I thought it was Tatum.

          1
          Reply
        • Deadguy

          2 years ago

          Nah that’s his distance cousin Toma?

          Reply
        • Deadguy

          2 years ago

          Uncle Buck? Snow shovel flap jack flippin maniac?

          Reply
      • Hemlock

        2 years ago

        > now I can’t think of his first name.

        He goes by Linda.

        Reply
    • frontdeskmike

      2 years ago

      It’s because the author has two first names.

      1
      Reply
    • Deadguy

      2 years ago

      That’s because he’s got face time like no other

      Reply
    • Rsox

      2 years ago

      They didn’t want to tell Paul he’s on the trading block…

      Reply
    • Pete'sView

      2 years ago

      I’ve never fully understood the gushing over O’Neill. Of all the Cardinal outfielders he seems the most meh.

      1
      Reply
      • gbs42

        2 years ago

        Did you miss his 34-HR, Gold Glove-winning season? He was a bit better than meh that year.

        Reply
        • Pete'sView

          2 years ago

          That was then (2021), how had he looked before then and since? I think meh is apt.

          Reply
        • gbs42

          2 years ago

          You had said never, and he was very good then. Now? Yeah, he’s currently meh, but I think the ability to be very good is there.

          Reply
    • cleveland_spider

      2 years ago

      Paul?

      1
      Reply
  2. HarrytheK0880

    2 years ago

    It almost seems like they are hanging onto O’neill to spite him. For an organization that is seen as one of the best all of sports, something seems rotten in St. Louis.

    9
    Reply
    • DarkSide830

      2 years ago

      Huh?

      Reply
      • HarrytheK0880

        2 years ago

        They seem to being saying one thing about O’neill and doing another. I don’t know lol.

        1
        Reply
    • King of Cards

      2 years ago

      A little far fetched but not totally off base. It’s just like Bader and Wong and Pham. These guys the team wants to treat poorly and mismanage for whatever reason.

      1
      Reply
      • playhard9

        2 years ago

        Pham yes but he has issues. Wong only when Matheny had him playing outfield. Bader was coddled and too often injured but trading him was a mistake. Probably should have traded O’Neill instead and have def jerked him around ever since then. Mo can’t get a good enough offer now, so he is trying to drive up the price. They would trade him in a heartbeat.

        Reply
        • King of Cards

          2 years ago

          Perhaps yes we should have dealt ONeill instead of Bader. But I think the Yankees wanted Baders defense and Bader 100% wanted to go to New York he was actually quite public about that.

          Reply
    • BradBaar

      2 years ago

      I tend to agree with you. Moe and Oli are all over the place when it comes to O’Neill and the other OF’ers. The two have hoarder-like tendencies that have to be dealt with. They need to thin the ranks because Oli simply can’t juggle all the OF’ers when they’re simultaneously healthy, which is rare, btw.

      1
      Reply
      • King of Cards

        2 years ago

        Trade Donovan. Walker goes to DH

        There is definitely room for everyone even if they are all healthy which won’t be very often anyways.

        Reply
        • BradBaar

          2 years ago

          Trading Brendan Donovan would break my heart. That kid is a baseball player. He’s our version of Luis Arreaz at the top of the lineup, but one who can play anywhere at anytime. He’ll be a GG catcher once Oli gets sick of Contreras.

          1
          Reply
        • King of Cards

          2 years ago

          Donovan is great for sure. But you gotta give to get. We have guys to fill Donovans role.

          Reply
        • moneedstogo

          2 years ago

          There is zero chance the Cards trade Donovan because other teams won’t value him like the Cards do.

          Reply
        • King of Cards

          2 years ago

          Donovan is good I don’t think it’s some hidden secret.

          Donovan
          Nootbaar

          For

          Gilbert
          Kelenic

          Reply
        • Shady mapleworth

          2 years ago

          Walker will be rookie of the year, his defense is really coming along. Please trade TO before he is hurt again

          Reply
  3. King of Cards

    2 years ago

    The team has had this nasty habit of saying one thing and doing another so we will see.

    I agree ONeill should stay DeJong has to go and all the soon to be free agents should be dealt as well. That’s what makes sense so I hope that’s what happens.

    Anyone who thinks ONeill needs to go so Jordan Walker can play more in the outfield is delusional and blinded by the hype.

    1
    Reply
    • FullMontilla

      2 years ago

      ‘ blinded by the hype’

      …revved up like a deuce, another runner in the night….

      Don’t trade O’Neill!

      1
      Reply
    • jakerafferty87

      2 years ago

      You could complain about Walker defensively if you like, but offensively speaking, the hype has been justified with a 117 wrc+ by a 21 year old rookie

      1
      Reply
      • King of Cards

        2 years ago

        Did you read what I said? Read it again.

        Walker can hit. He should be the DH until Goldschmidt moves on.

        He can’t FIELD!!!

        3
        Reply
        • Little Stevie Janowsky

          2 years ago

          @king of cards listen here boy, you are wrong 95% of the time but this is one of those rare times where you are correct

          2
          Reply
        • jakerafferty87

          2 years ago

          So you put him at DH, then what do you do with Donovan and Gorman? If you trade DeJong, is Edman really your SS? Does Burlson get any ABs? Are you ready to give up on Carlson? Cardinals have too many OF. O’Neill needs to be traded.

          Reply
        • King of Cards

          2 years ago

          You trade one of Donovan or Gorman.

          Burleson doesn’t need at bats

          Reply
        • Little Stevie Janowsky

          2 years ago

          Donovan left field, Edman second base, Gorman DH and can fill in for Edman and Arenado on occasion. Goldy traded. Walker at first. Easy.

          Reply
        • jakerafferty87

          2 years ago

          This is of course assuming turning any 21 year old player into a DH only is a good idea.

          2
          Reply
        • CuddyFox

          2 years ago

          Goldschmidt will not be traded. Cardinals probably sign him an extension instead. It go like this,
          Donovan- left field
          Goldschmidt- 1st base
          Arenado- 3rd base
          Edman-shortstop (until Winn is ready)
          Walker- right field
          O’Neill- DH
          Nootbarr- center field
          Conteras- catcher
          Gorman- 2nd base

          When Winn is ready to make a point in the majors, Edman will be a super utility player.

          Reply
        • King of Cards

          2 years ago

          In what alternative universe would we want the 2 time gold glover in ONeill at DH with Walker in the field????

          3
          Reply
        • CuddyFox

          2 years ago

          With O’Neill being injured all the time, it is the only way to keep him on the field.

          1
          Reply
        • JoeBrady

          2 years ago

          Or move Goldy & Arenado, and you still have more than enough depth to have a decent+ player at every position. Then focus on pitching.

          Reply
        • Little Stevie Janowsky

          2 years ago

          Absolutely not. Edman is one of the best second basement in baseball. He stays at second.

          Reply
        • King of Cards

          2 years ago

          He can play 1b after Goldschmidt is gone.

          He’s hurting the team on defense. If he comes back in 2024 and magically is a legit defender great but that isn’t happening.

          Reply
        • dumper

          2 years ago

          You just go out of your way to insult literally everyone, even when you agree with them. How old are you, 5?

          1
          Reply
        • King of Cards

          2 years ago

          Maybe keeping him away from center field would help

          2 time gold glover

          Reply
        • Slider_withcheese

          2 years ago

          Cool. Maybe they can finish in last next year too.

          2
          Reply
        • BradBaar

          2 years ago

          I think you’re right about Walker, KoC. He has literally no natural instincts for defense. I don’t even think he could play 1st base, and def not 3rd base. If the Cardinals want his bat in the lineup it should be DH, but wow, that takes away so much from how Oli likes to use the DH (i.e. resting players, rehabbing players, getting AB’s for bench players, etc).

          1
          Reply
        • Win Cor

          2 years ago

          He hustles which makes fielding fine that he’s young and has legs. His arm is incredible.

          Reply
        • King of Cards

          2 years ago

          Brad I could see playing Walker in the field if a couple guys are hurt. But it sure as heck shouldn’t be the plan.

          I hope he can play a competent 1b but who knows.

          Reply
        • stymeedone

          2 years ago

          Yes! How did they ever rest players before the DH? I remember NL starting players playing every inning of every game. Bench players sat, unless there was a bone sticking out of the starter, like it was meant to be. No one wants to watch bench players play! The DH is making the NL soft!

          Reply
      • btharveyku08

        2 years ago

        And he’s STILL at a new position.

        Reply
    • acoss13

      2 years ago

      Someone made the comparison of Walker to Schwarber. Cubs put in the lineup just to get his bat in, defense be damned.

      Reply
      • avenger65

        2 years ago

        Same with the Phillies.

        Reply
      • King of Cards

        2 years ago

        There wasn’t a full time DH back then dude. If there was Schwarber would have been the DH.

        Reply
      • PoisonedPens

        2 years ago

        Which is totally unfair because Walker is being asked to play a new position on the fly in his rookie year in MLB….

        2
        Reply
        • King of Cards

          2 years ago

          Unfair to who???

          Walker doesn’t belong in the outfield. That’s the point. It’s time to fix that.

          Reply
        • SimbaHOF2019

          2 years ago

          Walker has a cannon arm. The best on the team. better than Noot who was a quarterback with USC. better than Burleson who was a pitcher in the Minors. Also showed elite closing speed on an amazing catch last week. The tools are there. If he gets the reps he will be better than average OF.
          he could also be an excellent 3b or 1B

          Reply
        • Win Cor

          2 years ago

          Rocket arm!

          Reply
        • BradBaar

          2 years ago

          Cannon arm, yes, and he needs one because everything hit to him ends up on the warning track. He has zero instincts in the OF, and I can’t envision him on the infield either. I’m with KoC – put him at DH and bat him 4th. He is definitely a GREAT hitter.

          1
          Reply
        • King of Cards

          2 years ago

          Yeah the bat is legit. He really has a knack for squaring up the baseball. He doesn’t chase pitches. Offensively he’s ready to play now and he will definitely get better as he gets stronger.

          Just keep him away from a glove. Unless it’s a batting glove.

          Reply
        • Roguesaw2

          2 years ago

          Rocket arm only matters if you can come up with something to throw.

          Reply
        • stymeedone

          2 years ago

          If they held him in the minors to work on his defense, the time clock militia would be screaming. As to being “unfair”, I’m sure he could request a demotion, take a pay cut, ride the bus, and let an actual OF from AAA who’s ready take his spot. Would that be fair?

          Reply
        • King of Cards

          2 years ago

          I am part of the “time clock militia” but he simply wasn’t ready and still isn’t. He’s barely 21 there is no shame in it but he’s not ready defensively.

          The better outfielders aren’t in AAA they are on the big league club sitting on the bench night after night.

          Reply
    • Shady mapleworth

      2 years ago

      musclehead is worthless

      Reply
  4. Jake Biggar

    2 years ago

    This would literally make zero sense but again has the Cardinals front office done anything the last year that makes sense? They just come off as scared to me still

    Reply
    • King of Cards

      2 years ago

      Everything said in that article makes sense. If you disagree be specific.

      Reply
  5. Troy Percival's iPad

    2 years ago

    If I hit the PowerBall, buy the Guardians, and trade for Tyler O’Neill, will everyone stop pretending that he is worth anything/would fetch anything in a trade/has done anything outside of the 2021 season?

    1
    Reply
    • King of Cards

      2 years ago

      Perhaps that’s why he’s not going to be traded

      Duh

      Reply
    • Little Stevie Janowsky

      2 years ago

      They are keeping him in hopes that he will have a good second half and will have trade value in the off season. They don’t want to just give him away for free.

      2
      Reply
  6. frugalfarhan

    2 years ago

    Dejong and Montgomery seem like Farhan targets. If the Giants pull off any trades I could see this one being it.

    5
    Reply
    • Jrnomo100

      2 years ago

      Cards are looking for pitching for next ye cobb is on a one year deal and has an option for 24 just saying

      1
      Reply
      • foppert1

        2 years ago

        Cobb is on a 2 year plus club option deal that he has outperformed by plenty. The option is for a way under value 10m. I’m no POBO but I imagine that giving that up would be difficult.

        Reply
      • Rsox

        2 years ago

        Farhan would be foolish to trade Cobb for a pending free agent in Montgomery. That being said, Wood, Stripling Manaea are all signed for next season so maybe trade one of them for DeJong straight up

        Reply
        • Jrnomo100

          2 years ago

          Cobb for degong and flattery

          Reply
        • gbs42

          2 years ago

          Who are degong and flattery???

          Oh, you mean DeJong and Flaherty.

          Reply
        • Jrnomo100

          2 years ago

          Either one they will trade for

          Reply
    • dennymagnet

      2 years ago

      Couldn’t agree more!

      Reply
  7. TDM

    2 years ago

    Hicks to Phillies. Get it done.

    Reply
  8. Senioreditor

    2 years ago

    This article could be titled, “Cards selling crap that landed them in last place”, at the deadline.

    4
    Reply
    • JoeBrady

      2 years ago

      Just imho, I think the Cards have a lot of talent. They just have all these pieces that they are trying to move around. Except for an abysmal record in one-run games, they’d be in contention.

      4
      Reply
      • Rsox

        2 years ago

        The Cardinals problem is less lack of talent and more lousy management. Marmol throwing his players under the bus right out of the gate didn’t exactly create a cohesive culture. Expecting Contreras to be Yadier Molina didn’t help

        Reply
      • stymeedone

        2 years ago

        @Brady
        So you’re saying if they knew how to win, they’d be better?

        Reply
  9. jaxcards

    2 years ago

    I think the Cardinals should keep DeJong. Edman is hurt, Donovan can’t throw right now, and Wynn is not quite ready. If DeJong is traded are the Cards really going to play Motter at SS? Gorman isn’t a SS.

    Reply
    • gbs42

      2 years ago

      The rest of this season doesn’t really matter.

      Reply
  10. jdgoat

    2 years ago

    I could see Dejong being a relatively cheap trade piece that Toronto targets. They’re still in desperate need of somebody who can hit lefties. Dejong being that side of a platoon wouldn’t be too bad of an option at all.

    1
    Reply
  11. astick

    2 years ago

    I’m just commenting to say I hate the Cardinals and they suck.

    4
    Reply
  12. citizen

    2 years ago

    Oviedo leads the league in losses, has a high era but a .8 war. crazy.

    Reply
    • mlb1225

      2 years ago

      Oviedo is super inconsistent. He’ll either go 6+ innings and allow only 1 run, or barely make it out of the 4th, if that. First time getting an extended look against major leaguers, so there’s bound to be some bumps.

      Reply
      • King of Cards

        2 years ago

        He has potential. I wasn’t thrilled giving up on him last year but like you said there were foreseeable bumps in the road coming and we didn’t want to deal with that.

        Reply
    • gbs42

      2 years ago

      It’s almost like W-L record is a poor, outdated way to evaluate pitchers.

      Reply
      • mlb1225

        2 years ago

        There’s been a handful of games this year that the offense, and not Oviedo, stuck him with an L because they couldn’t score to save their life. His two best starts this year, one against Miami (7 IP, 1 ER, 6 K’s, no walks) and the Cardinals (7 IP, 1 ER, 1 BB, 10 K’s) both ended in L’s on Oveido’s baseball card. He is 1-4 in games where he goes 6+ IP and allows 2 or less ER.

        Reply
  13. kidnova

    2 years ago

    Would like to see Montgomery in a Rangers uniform, but it would depend on what he’d cost in prospects. Not really interested in overpaying for a rental.

    Reply
  14. King of Cards

    2 years ago

    Here’s one we are talking about in another chat room.

    Nootbaar
    Donovan

    For

    Gilbert
    Kelenic

    Who says no?

    Reply
    • omahamadness

      2 years ago

      Cardinals only bc they don’t need another OF. Trade Kelenic name for 2 more SP prospects and I’d consider it.

      1
      Reply
    • nbresnak

      2 years ago

      Seattle Mariners

      1
      Reply
    • braves25

      2 years ago

      Both!!!

      The Mariners aren’t trading Gilbert.

      The Cardinals are in love with Nootbar. They wouldn’t make him available this past off-season so why would they trade him now that he is the only guy they have to play CF?

      Makes zero sense for either team

      1
      Reply
    • Little Stevie Janowsky

      2 years ago

      Trade the cardinals best young players! Good idea king of cards. You disappoint big Stevie again. Can’t wait to watch Motter play everyday. You are aware the organization has no current offensive depth in the minors right? Absolutely no one can replace them. You don’t fill holes by creating more. Best move is to wait until off season and SIGN pitchers.

      Reply
    • Tigers3232

      2 years ago

      The Mariners would not even entertain that offer. Kelenic and Nootbar basically a wash. So it would b Gilbert for Donovan, which no way would M’s go for that.

      And before Stevie chimes in, yes Donovan is a fine ballplayer. However young contrable starting pitchers are extremely valuable in today’s game.

      Reply
      • Little Stevie Janowsky

        2 years ago

        Absolute nonsense. Nootbaar and kelenic is a wash only in kelenic greatest dream. Nootbaar is having a bad season for his standards and is still on pace for a 4 WAR season. What’s a good season look like for him? 5 WAR? 6 WAR? 7? Kelenic had been good for a total of 2 months his entire career. Other then that he’s been absolute rubbish. And don’t get me started on a young mikolas in Gilbert being worth more than Donovan

        Reply
        • Tigers3232

          2 years ago

          Stevie, glad u mentioned WAR. Nootbar is currently at 2.0 to Kelenic 1.9 on the season. They both have been ok 3rd OFs and not much more.

          I guess someone has to just state this to you, Nootbar is not the second coming of Mantle or Mays or even Chet Lemon….

          Reply
      • King of Cards

        2 years ago

        Kelenic and Nootbaar a wash? Uh no.

        Go to trade simulator the UNIBIASED trade simulator. They like the deal say it actually favors the Mariners.

        Reply
        • Tigers3232

          2 years ago

          Nootbar is slightly ahead of Kelenic in multiple trade calculators. Donovan is nowhere near Gilbert. As I mentioned before Stevie has absolutely ZERO clue the value of young controllable starting pitchers.

          Reply
        • King of Cards

          2 years ago

          You are wrong

          There is only 1 trade calculator that I use and 1 that most people use.

          Nootbaar is far more valuable than Kelenic. Gilbert is far more valuable than Donovan

          Reply
        • Tigers3232

          2 years ago

          Actually the multiple trade calculators exist because get this, people use them….

          Reply
        • Tigers3232

          2 years ago

          We ll ignore Kelenic and Nootbar, they re largely irrelevant. Point is Mariners would not make the trade.

          Reply
        • Little Stevie Janowsky

          2 years ago

          You’re wrong. Mariners accept that in a heartbeat. Cardinals would never

          Reply
    • Daryl Pauley

      2 years ago

      Everybody says no to that Seattle trade.

      Reply
  15. KamKid

    2 years ago

    If DeJong is still capable of truly plus defense at SS, the $12.5m option seems like a plausible pick up for a team rather than buying it out at $2m.

    4
    Reply
    • snakebyte32

      2 years ago

      His defense has never really been in question, it has been his production on the other side of the ball that has been so terribly inconsistent. Even in his good seasons he was somewhat streaky. One man wrecking crew for a month and 2 or three months of blah to follow.

      2
      Reply
      • KamKid

        2 years ago

        The thing about that is that there are so many teams shoehorning offense up the defensive spectrum only to fill the lesser position with a sub par offensive performer. If a 90 wRC+ is a realistic outcome for a guy, I’m fine with that if it comes with plus defense at C, SS, or CF. But when teams play a sub par defensive SS only to get below average type offensive performance at 2B, it doesn’t add up to me.

        1
        Reply
    • snakebyte32

      2 years ago

      This will be an interesting 6 months or so for Cards fans. I commented last offseason about the lack of starting pitching and pitching talent in general in the minors for STL. and many cards fans must only look at top thirty prospect lists cause I took all kinds of grief for the comment. I watch the Springfield Cardinals and watching Walker/Winn last year was fun, but there is still no one in Springfield making the right sound in the catchers mitt like Trevor Rosenthal or Shelby Miller did. To do this thing right they need to pull off a trade that Cardinals fans will hate at first like when they traded J.D. Drew. I don’t know that Moz could get that lucky. Carpenter was an injured player when he was signed and Waino came via a painful trade. It takes two Aces to be successful in the post season and if that is the stated goal then that is what the Cards need to get in order to get back on track.

      4
      Reply
      • snakebyte32

        2 years ago

        Oddly enough though I can’t think of a postseason that both Carp and Waino were off the injured list. Maybe one could get it done, but seems like you need contracts on two to even have one throwing bullets…

        3
        Reply
  16. omahamadness

    2 years ago

    I’d trade Arenado and Goldy, move Walker to 1B, Gorman 3B and have Edman/Donovan as SS/2B. Then you have O’Neill, Noot and Carlson in OF with Burleson 4th OF. Done, easy we get pitching we need and more time to see players develop. Don’t care how good Arenado and Goldy are, its time to tear it down and rebuild around youth. I’d also trade Contreras even if we eat salary to allow Ivan to become the backstop of the future. Dude has looked great in his short stint.

    Reply
    • CuddyFox

      2 years ago

      Both Goldschmidt and Arenado have no trade causes. Neither will waive it. So trading either one is unlikely.

      2
      Reply
      • Slider_withcheese

        2 years ago

        Why would they? I mean, who doesn’t want to play for a 4th place team that’s 11 under .500 when you could be moved to a contender for a shot at a ring?

        2
        Reply
    • Ol’ Uncle Charlie

      2 years ago

      I’d love to manage a team against a team you’d manage, Omaha.

      1
      Reply
      • omahamadness

        2 years ago

        Let’s do it, fantasy baseball next year….closest we get.

        Reply
    • mattm-13

      2 years ago

      That’s a horrible lineup

      Reply
  17. omahamadness

    2 years ago

    Noot is going to help reel in Ohtani, just saying…..

    1
    Reply
    • Ol’ Uncle Charlie

      2 years ago

      Wow, you’re really on a roll, my dude.

      What’s it like in your world?

      2
      Reply
      • gbs42

        2 years ago

        Apparently it’s madness.

        Reply
    • Daryl Pauley

      2 years ago

      And other guys coming over from NPB next year.

      Reply
  18. Armaments216

    2 years ago

    Why would a team would give up major-league-ready pitching in return for mid-rotation rentals? Would make more sense if the return is pitching prospects at least a year away. Maybe for an injured pitcher who’ll be back in 2024?

    1
    Reply
  19. stretch123

    2 years ago

    Dejong and Hicks to Miami for Jake Eder, Patrick Monteverde, Kahlil Watson and a couple flier prospects. Send it in Kim Ng

    Reply
  20. drasco036

    2 years ago

    “Depth”

    “We are listening to offers on the glutton of below league average hitting corner outfielders we have”

    Reply
  21. bb15021

    2 years ago

    Don’t really understand the love for O’neill. It is increasingly obvious his 2021 season was a mirage. Take out those good 400 or so PA and he’s got a line of 230/300/405 on over 1000 ABs. I don’t call that “unequivocally selling low” that is just what the guy is. Defensivly he’s an above average corner OF with zero business in CF

    Reply
  22. iH8PaperStraws

    2 years ago

    This news and DeWitt earlier today saying a complete tear down isn’t out of the question tells me they aren’t getting the kind of return they thought they could for their over values players. Clubs aren’t going to send young mlb ready pitched to the cardinals, period. Everyone is looking for those. The Cardinals don’t have position depth, they have the opposite of it. That was prone this year becaus they had to play Donovan and Edman in the outfield. So they can’t trade anyone even if other teams wanted them (which they don’t) because they have no players in the minors to fill in. They will will only trade one of Montgomery and Flarety if that. The Dodgers just got Hernandez so DeJong isn’t going anywhere and he’s needed for the rest of the year anyway. They won’t get what they want for hicks so they will keep him and try to resign because they need a ton in the for next year too. So Arenado and Goldschmidt are their only legit trade chips. Goldschmidt will be moved to a legit contender and he will have no problem waiving the NTC. No trade clauses are in place to keep you from getting traded to garbage teams, they will get waived for a chance to get a WS ring.

    The Cardinals will get a couple high low a ball prospects with high ceilings for Goldschmidt. That will be the club realizing they aren’t going to be competive in 2024 and the sell off will begin, building the much needed foundation for the next run of great cardinals teams starting jn 2026/2027.

    Reply
    • iH8PaperStraws

      2 years ago

      And there it is. Just broke cardinals are about to sign a deal with Hicks. Pieces are rolling. Bye bye Goldschmidt.

      Reply
    • omahamadness

      2 years ago

      Arenado to Phillies and Goldschmidt back to AZ both for pitching.

      Monty, Stratton both traded, Flaherty stays for QO and Hicks extended.

      Cards are already youngest team in NL maybe majors, this completes the retool and expected 2 years of losing before pitchers in trade are ready.

      Reply
      • gbs42

        2 years ago

        QO Flaherty? That would be madness.

        Reply
      • CityofChampions

        2 years ago

        @omaha

        There’s no possible way the Cards are younger than the O’s. The presence of Goldy, Waino, and Arenado simply can’t make that true.

        Reply
  23. leftcoaster

    2 years ago

    Seems everyone is forgetting about Burleson. It’s quite possible he’ll ultimately end up the best hitting outfielder not named Walker the Cardinals have.

    Reply
  24. meangreandancingmachine

    2 years ago

    So, based on all combined media reports and what has crawled out of Mo’s mouth, the Cards will take into 2024 the following starters::

    1B = Paul Goldschmidt
    3B = Nolan Arenado
    LF = Tyler O’Neill
    CF = Lars Nootbaar
    RF = Jordan Walker
    S1 = Miles Mikolas
    S2 = Steven Matz
    CL = Jordan Hicks

    That leaves C, 2B, DH and 3 starters and multiple bullpen arms. remaining to be filled.

    Can’t really predict anything else until after Aug. 1, but you figure there’s a good chance that Masyn Winn starts at SS in ’24 and Contreras is either C/DH in ’24.

    Thoughts?

    Reply
  25. Out In Center

    2 years ago

    Another travesty in punctuation by Stumbling Steve Adams. “Too” shouldn’t have a comma after it. Then there’s this silly sentence:

    “That, again, is hardly a surprise and has long been speculated upon, given the team’s lack of rotation clarity beyond the current season.”

    Beyond the unnecessary passive voice (“has long been speculated upon” is so verbose), “again” adds nothing to the sentence, and if it HAS to stay, it needs to START the sentence. Also, why not say “this season” instead of the needlessly wordy “the current season?” What a waste of words.

    Reply

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