The Pirates jumped out to a hot start in 2023, sitting on a 20-9 record at the end of April that made it seem like the days of rebuilding were suddenly in the rearview mirror. Unfortunately, they haven’t been able to maintain that, falling back to earth with an 8-18 record in May. Ownership was still supportive of buying at the deadline as recently as June 21, but the club has continued to slide in the standings.
The Bucs now find themselves with a record of 41-49. They are fourth in the National League Central, well behind the Reds and Brewers. They’re also behind the third-place Cubs, who have the best run differential of the bunch and a soft schedule coming out of the break. FanGraphs currently pegs Pittsburgh’s playoff odds at just 1.4%.
Barring a tremendous surge after the All-Star break, the club will likely have to set their sights on 2024. That will mean having discussions about trading away veterans, both to recoup some younger players to help in future seasons and to open up playing time for the players they already have. Let’s take a look at some options, though there aren’t too many players on the roster who fit the bill.
Rental Players
Hill continues to defy Father Time and is still a reasonably effective starter at the age of 43. He’s tossed 98 innings over 18 starts this year and currently has a 4.78 ERA, striking out 21.1% of batters faced while walking 9% and getting grounders at a 35.9% clip. He’s making $8MM this year, with about $2.6MM still to be paid out when the deadline rolls around.
He won’t command a huge return as a back-end innings eater, but the Bucs could perhaps line up with some club that simply wants a guy to take the ball every five days. Just a couple of years ago, the Nationals were able to get Lane Thomas in return for a 37-year-old Jon Lester and his 5.02 ERA at that time. The Pirates shouldn’t expect that kind of return on Hill, but it serves to demonstrate that they could at least take a flier on someone by putting Hill out there.
Santana, 37, isn’t likely to be a huge deadline addition at this stage of his career. However, it was just a year ago that the Royals were able to trade him to the Mariners for a couple of younger relievers. This year, he’s still showing his good approach at the plate, with his 10.5% walk rate and 18% strikeout rate both better than average. He’s hit nine home runs, but his .233/.311/.390 batting line is a bit below average, translating to a wRC+ of 91.
The switch-hitter has always been a bit better against lefties and that continues to be the case this year, as he’s slashing .260/.348/.416 against southpaws for a wRC+ of 109. There are likely some contenders who would be happy to utilize him as a short-side platoon bat and pinch-hitter off the bench. His first base defense continues to be considered above average. He’s making $6.725MM this year, which will leave around $2.2MM at deadline time.
Choi, 32, appeared in nine games before a strained Achilles tendon in his left foot sent him to the injured list. He was reinstated just before the break, and his form in the next few weeks will likely determine his trade interest. He’s hit .237/.340/.428 in his career with a 13.1% walk rate, leading to a wRC+ of 114. The left-handed hitter has been especially strong with the platoon advantage, hitting .245/.351/.454 against righties in his career for a 124 wRC+. He’s earning $4.65MM this year and about $1.5MM will be remaining at the end of the month.
Hedges has long been considered one of the best defensive catchers in the game but doesn’t provide much with the bat. That’s especially true this year, where he’s hitting just .179/.230/.232. His wRC+ of 26 is dead last in the league among players with at least 170 plate appearances. Yet he continues to get work based on his defensive acumen and strong reputation for working with pitchers.
Trading catchers in midseason is generally tricky, as it can be challenging to learn an entirely new pitching staff on the fly. If the Bucs can’t line up a trade for that reason, they may have to think about moving on from Hedges regardless. Catching prospect Henry Davis is already up with the big league club to get his bat in the lineup but is playing the outfield at the moment. The club’s other top catching prospect, Endy Rodríguez, is in Triple-A and perhaps ready for a promotion. Both Davis and Rodríguez play other positions and it remains to be seen who the club considers its true “catcher of the future,” so perhaps they could use the last few months of the season to get a look at one or both.
McCutchen makes theoretical sense as a trade candidate since he’s 36 years old, an impending free agent and performing well at the plate this year. The Rangers have reportedly expressed interest, but all signs seem to point to Cutch staying put. He’s been quite open about how happy he is to be back in Pittsburgh and plans to spend the rest of his career there. The club is apparently on board with that and doesn’t seem to have any designs on trading him.
Signed/Controlled For One Extra Year
García has a 2.89 ERA dating back to 2019 and had that figure at 3.74 last year but was non-tendered by the Giants. The Bucs swooped in and signed him to a $2.5MM deal with a $3.25MM club option for 2024. Unfortunately, he’s been on the injured list all year due to a biceps injury. Players on the IL can still be traded, but there won’t be much interest unless he shows some progress in the next few weeks.
Longer-Term Players
There are no indications the club has any plans of trading Keller. In fact, he’s the best rotation building block they have, with his 3.31 ERA this year putting him just outside the top 10 in the National League. But although he’s only been breaking out over the past year or so, his control is dwindling since he’s a bit of a late bloomer. Debuting back in 2019, he struggled in his first few seasons before putting things together recently and now has just two seasons of control left beyond this one.
The Bucs are in a similar situation with Keller to where they were with Bryan Reynolds not too long ago. Reynolds was clearly an important member of the club but there was a ticking clock as his free agency was getting closer. In that case, the two sides lined up on an extension to potentially keep him in Pittsburgh through 2031, and a similar decision might have to be made on Keller.
Bednar, 28, continues to cement himself as one of the better relievers in the league. He has a 1.27 ERA this year, striking out 29.8% of hitters while walking just 5%, earning 17 saves in the process. Given the volatility of reliever performance, there could be an argument for the Bucs to cash in while his trade value is high, as they can currently market him with three seasons of control beyond this one. However, Bednar’s a fan favorite, having been born in Pittsburgh and raised in the area. Since the club has shown flashes that suggest the rebuild won’t go on for much longer, it seems unlikely they would consider moving a key piece like Bednar. As with Keller, other teams will still surely try, but he’s likely staying put.
Joe isn’t anywhere close to free agency, as he will have four years of club control remaining after this one. But while many of the players on the club’s roster are in their mid-20s, Joe will be turning 31 next month. He’s also having a decent season, hitting .240/.332/.421 for a wRC+ of 106 while playing first base and the outfield corners. Perhaps the club would be tempted to put him on the trading block now since his trade value will likely only decrease as he ages and becomes more expensive. He’ll finish this year with his service time at 2.136 and could qualify for arbitration as a Super Two player.
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Ultimately, the Bucs don’t have too much to offer as sellers this winter. The veterans they do have will get some interest but won’t be headlining any blockbuster deals. If they get on a hot streak in the next few weeks, perhaps they just decide to hold onto everyone and hope for a strong finish. But their chances of contention should be much stronger next year and they could start lining things up for that.
By moving Hedges, they could get a look at Davis and Rodríguez as catchers at the big league level while continuing to evaluate their bats. By moving Santana, Choi and/or Joe out of the first base/designated hitter/corner outfield mix, they could open up plate appearances for players currently in the minors, whether that’s a prospect like Liover Peguero or a potential late bloomer like Miguel Andujar. The latter struggled in the majors earlier this year but has hit .409/.459/.634 in Triple-A since accepting an outright assignment two months ago. If added to the club’s roster later this year, they could retain him via arbitration for 2024.
Keller, Bednar and McCuthen are going nowhere. Will be interesting to see what the rentals could pull in.
Nutting recently said he won’t make the same mistake twice, Cutch isn’t going anywhere
Cutch also said he will not ask to be traded to a contender.
Back to Boston for Hill makes sense.
dewey, Boston isn’t a realistic contender for the post-season but if they could get Hill for an A or AA utility infielder or the like, why not?
Milt. They can compete or end up 15 out of a playoff spot by season’s end but they need starters and as you said, it won’t cost much as a fall back option if they can’t do better and stay under the threshold.
I feel like the Bucs would need a ML-ready SP back in one of the trades if they trade Hill.
Even with Priester coming up, Bucs swiss cheese rotation is held together by Hills consistency and Oviedos randomized dominance.
Kutter Crawford for Hill obviously gets it done
but in that regard, I think Boston has a hard time meeting the Bucs needs (young SP), as their already reliant on their own (Kutter and Bello) to hold down the rotation.
, even tho Hills return to Boston makes perfect sense (as mentor and potential contender)
I guess the question is, do they have any promising outfielders with power? Seems Cherington addressed the pitching prospect angle in the draft but that need is still in the outfield
I’d move either Santana or Joe and keep the other for 1B next year.
other than that, it’s not imperative to trade anyone.
Hill and Santana are both good clubhouse leaders , so shouldn’t feel forced to trade either unless there’s a worthwhile return.
Although I am in agreement with you, Goku, my gut says they trade Santana and Hill, and possibly Hedges, just to dump salary…without regard to the quality of the guys they get back. I hope I’m wrong.
The days of salary dumping are over, Cherington will only make a trade if the return improves the team
Salary dumping was one of the former GM’s priorities
not sure if that applies to older guys on expiring deals
Santana has told Cherington that he’d like to come back next year and since they don’t have a first baseman waiting in Indy he could remain
While I’m happy some veterans actually want to stay here, I have to wonder if having the two biggest trading chips request to stay goes against Cherington’s thinking. Not like they have a 1st baseman in the minors waiting to come up, unless it’s Andujar
They need a lead off hitter, because in tonight’s game, it’s Suwinski, and he’s yet to get on base batting in that position
Is amazing that after that incredibly hot start that the Pirates are universally expected to be sellers at the deadline. Only Nutting.
“Incredibly hot start”…It was only a good few weeks, really. Hardly “Incredible”. Hopefully, Pittsburgh’s best days are still in front of them.
19-9 though the end of April. A .679 win percentage. That is an incredibly hot start.
Sadly they have been 22-40 since then. A .333 win percentage. Only the A’s have won a lower percentage.
Pads Fans Pirates would be dumb not to sell. They aren’t Arizona or Cincy. Both the division and WC races are pretty much gone at this point, and it’s highly unlikely they return to their early season form in order to catch up.
I agree that there is little to no chance they rebound to get into contention for a WC spot.
Not a lot on that list to trade. The return would be miniscule. Other than guys that are walking at years end, is it worth breaking up the team?
they have nothing to sell,
and if they didn’t lose the better Cruz to injury, they’d prob still be fighting for the division .
Nobody needs or wants any of those guys. Debatable whether even their Mothers do . McCutchen would be the only one and he says he wants to finish there so he’s not going anywhere unless he says so, Or he might hang them up and leave everybody with nothing if he gets dealt.
Literally Nutting has nothing to do with this, people need to get over this narrative already. Seems he takes a totally hands off approach and lets them extend players they want to. He was instrumental in getting Cutch here who has been the biggest spark on offense and overall morale of the team. They will never be top spenders but it looks like they’re past the point of pairing down payroll to start over.
Nutting wasn’t instrumental in bringing Cutch back, it was Cutch that called Nutting and offered to return at a discount price
Ahhh, The Reinsdorf Principle. Know it well. Not only for 1 team but for 2!
Is Evan Carter (consensus top 10 prospect in MLB atm) worth Keller? How about Keller + Bednar? The Pirates wouldn’t need Keller this year or the next 2 anyways. Even if it is just Keller, 2 of Luisangel Acuna/Foscue/White (Top 100 prospects) can be dealt for him. At some point, they have to make him available.
They extended Reynolds, why assume they won’t extend Keller? They don’t ‘have to’ make him available at some point and aren’t as far from contending as you imply. This time next year if they are not close to contention and Keller is not close to extending then of course this can be revisited.
That may be true, but selling high is also important. Timing is everything. Texas should have dealt Mike Minor closer to his 8 WAR season. The same can be said about Lance Lynn. I think Minor was the AL ERA leader the first 25 or so starts in a 6+ run environment for an average pitcher. Hunter Pence could have been dealt for something before he was injured. Also consider how WAS sold super high on Juan Soto before he crashed. He has only slightly rebounded of late, but mainly due to walks. It may make more sense with Bednar due to control, but I don’t see Keller taking a hometown discount like Reynolds did. I doubt the Pirates would/should give him a Musgrove-like deal for 5/100 for his free agent years (7 years and 110 perhaps if we include the next 2 years).
I disagree, Keller is on record saying he will take a “ hometown “ discount if the number of years is substantial
Rangers didn’t want to pay for Reynolds. Doubt they would pay for Keller Bednar. But a package with White or Porter as headliner could get either and most all players that would be available for trade.
Yes Keller will get traded a year from now if he’s not extended by then and they are 41-49 at the break again. He won’t be traded now.
I have to think that judging by his drafting of Skenes and numerous college pitchers, Cherington is well aware that really, the Pirates have relatively few starting pitchers who can be integral parts of their staff in the next year or two, unless we’re counting guys coming back from major surgeries, a couple kids at AAA or iffy types like Oviedo and Ortiz. Signing Keller is simply a must even if it means backing up the armored cars for him
Absolutely correct. The lack of starting pitching above A-ball is really hampering the rebuild.
They were counting on Oviedo, Ortiz and Contrares to mature into better pitchers and unfortunately they have each been less than expected
You know it’s bad when one of their starters is a never has been Bido, who can’t seem to get beyond the 4th inning
While I truly think that unfortunately, Contreras is done, I’d give it some time before I move on from Oviedo. Or Ortiz.
Good that between Priester, Solo, the return of Brubaker and Burrows, Skenes and a whole host of draftees and kids coming through the minors, there’s finally some competition
Just please, don’t turn them all into middle relievers
I wasn’t suggesting they move on from Oviedo and Ortiz, only that they had hoped for improvement since both have major league experience under their belts
I would like to see them promoting Priester soon to take the place in the rotation from Bido.
The latter’s failures to pitch beyond the 4th inning puts too much strain on the bullpen
GM BC is reading your comments ….haha.
Prates are not dealing Keller and Bednar. Both will be needed to go with Skenes when he hits the rotation. They already have been talking extension with Keller already.
ya I don’t see them selling anyone major.
they took a hard stand with Reynolds, and within their own budget, they intend to contend* (keep their talent) over the next 3 years
contend = not dump prime talent
No way Hedges goes either. The Bucs have two catching prospects that need tutoring at the MLB level.
I agree Terrier1980. Delay still has options and he can be sent to Indy for emergency purposes if one of the catchers on the parent club gets injured
Lane Thomas, Randy Arozarena, Sandy Alcantara, Zack Gallen; the Cardinals traded away a boatload of useful players, mostly for a washed up Marzell Ozuna. These trades certainly put the Cardinals current on-field results into perspective. Do any Cardinal fans know if the Cards actually got any good players back in these deals?
lay off the sauce Degrom, Keller is under control for 2 more years and Bednar for 4 years
I’m the furthest thing from a cardinal fan but if any of those type of people tell you yes, they are lying.
Alcantara and Gallen were traded for Ozuna.
Thomas was traded to aquire Jon Lester
Arozarena was traded for Liberatore.
The Cardinals also trade Adolis Garcia to Texas for cash considerations after they dfa him to make room for Mike Foltynewicz.
So no they didn’t get anyone good for any of them. I guess Liberatore still has a shot at becoming good.
Free Miggy
Hill and Santana, obviously. Keller, Lord no. I think the Bucs should at least listen on Bednar. Given that Cutch actually called Nutting on the phone to sound him out on a return to the ‘Burgh, I doubt that even Bob is so PR un-savvy that 22 is going anywhere.
With an outfield of Reynolds, Suwinski and Davis, Connor Joe becomes expendable
Trade Joe if someone offers anything. But everyone gets off days and hurt and you can put him at 1b.
Getting days off is one thing, they faced 2 lefty starters last week and Joe didn’t start against either and he has the best offense against lefty pitchers
Agree about Bednar. I wouldn’t be shopping him, but I would also be listening to reasonable offers. I love the guy and he’s showing no regression signs, but relievers are so volatile and the Bucs do have some good power arms moving through the system.
bad teams should trade their closers without question
I think you meant to type “bad teams should just trade their closers to better teams without questioning it”. Wake up, that’s not how teams work anymore.
And I’ll bet ;you call the Pirates a “bad” team yet think the Mets and Padres should be buyers because they’re “good”. Aka good at spending money.
4 playoff years of Bednar would be expensive. Hard to see another team paying the price. Instead they will trade for rentals and lesser arms for the next 4 years bleeding prospects.
They should follow what the Orioles did last season. Recognize they’re really not contending this year and selectively sell for 2024. The market likely has more buyers than sellers this year, so they might find the returns stronger.
This 100%. Cash in on Bednar before he breaks.
Joe can’t play 2B, 3B or SS. Tuca can’t hit LHP. Castro has a lifeline.
Castro’s lifeline is committing 12 errors and swinging at every pitch thrown in his general direction
I’m shocked that any observer sees Castro as more than “bench” at this time. He’s had a lot of opportunity to show what he can do and it hasn’t been pretty. With Gonzales, Bae, Peguero and Termarr coming up from the minors, it’s hard to see a future here
I agree Cornwhisperer, which is why I think Castro will be included in any trade
Trading Hedges, Santana, Choi and Joe likely be addition by subtraction. getting any return is a positive. Trading Hill doesn’t really do much in that regard but anything you can get at this time
IIRC: Starting Pitching availability is low this trade season? Assuming that is true Hill should bring back something of value
Interesting note about hedges, he leads the league is sacrifice bunts and i think sacrifices in general (not sure). he scores over 25% of the times he gets on base… hes only gotten base about 40 times though hahaha.
baring some overpay, Cutch, Bednar and Keller are not moving.
The Pirates return on trades will be pretty small, fringe MiLB depth players and Cash is about it.
The team should wait to see how well they come out of the gate. if they’re doing well just keep at least Hill not missing out on much. if the team continues its slide then take whatever you can get on the rentals and replace them with minor league players to see what happens
I think the types of prospects they’ve gotten at trade deadline in the past will look like all stars compared to what they may deal this year. “A” level or instructional league kind of prospects, at best
And yet, I think Hill will be the first to go because let’s face it, no team that’s fighting for a playoff spot has enough pitching. Even so, at 43, what will they get?
Shelton said yesterday that he envisions the second half being a “youth movement” and to me, that means the writing is on the wall for the rentals. Maybe they finally bring Endy up. Maybe Priester and Solometo.
Contrares was sent to their training complex in Florida yesterday and for the rest of the season. They want to determine why he lost significant speed on his fastball
This move means someone is being promoted today
the moves were already done
What would you expect for in return of a Austin Hedges, a bucket of potatoes. And for this rumor about his great defensive skills he has been absolute crap behind the dish which shows just how misleading defensive stats are. But Joe Block thinks he’s a great bunter!
Wait…what kind of potatoes?
Hedges is terrible behind the plate. That’s why the Guardians and Pirates pitchers love throwing to him. Get a clue.
McCutchen only wants to stay so he can avoid having to preform when it matters.
you mean how he achieved his 2000th career hit this season or hitting his 400th career double or drawing his 1000th career walk and is only 3 homers shy of 300, Slider?
Under the dim lights of Pittsburgh where the expectations are about as high as my contributions to this site, The Man 3.
Except that Cutch played for other teams besides Pittsburgh
What a moronic comment. I guess I’m your estimation, Clemente was overrated, too. We’d put your brain in a bird, but the bird would fly backwards
Clemente lacked power
Clemente played in cavernous Forbes Field until 1970. He was a line drive hitter who had power. I guess you never watched him play.
What Clemente lacked in power he made up for in triples having hit 166 for his career and achieved 200 hits in a season 4 times
Of course these numbers go along with his 4 batting titles and 3000 career hits
Plus he had one of the strongest and most accurate arms of any right fielder in baseball history
but he didn’t have power
thanks for the laugh
Cutch owns a home in Pittsburgh and his wife’s family is local
You really don’t know anything about him I see
And I see you know way too much. He needs to file a restraining order against you.
I’ve been a devout Pirate fan since 1966. What’s your excuse?
Why are the Pirates trading? Retool for next year and take the crown in 2024. Build that dynasty to last for 100 years of Pirates dominance.
Hill and Joe, and probably Santana… anything you can get for them is a plus. Choi and Santana probably can’t both be dealt simply because 1B is one of the weakest positions depth-wise both in the majors and in the minors for the Bucs.
Cutch… no way. Keller… double no way.
Pirates will put anyone at 1b. They don’t care.
That was last season. Santana,. Choi and Joe are very respectable defensively.
Like to see the Orioles grab Hill. Outside of Hicks, team is devoid of playoff experience. Hill you ask? Been there, done that!
Trade both if you can. Endy can play 1st.
Trade Hill, preferably to someone he hasn’t already played for. He’s just two teams from tying Edwin Jackson’s record
I’m surprised MLBTR didn’t list Reynolds as he was such a repeated source of articles up until he signed an extension.
So now the name of Keller is thrown in to once again infuriate the fan base lol
If Hayes and Reynolds were the cornerstones for the future, Keller has to be the foundation.
And I can’t imagine the PR nightmare of Bednar was dealt
Hill, Santana, Hedges? Sure
Choi’s last game undoubtedly piqued curiosity among some contenders. Sure
I salute Cherington for not only drafting Skenes but also a boatload of college pitchers from the SEC to WVU and California I can breathe easy knowing the guy has a pulse as GM and that this season has been really iffy where starters are concerned
That said, hopefully these rental players will bring back outfield prospects who have some power
Pirates stink at and don’t care about pr. If they could trade Cutch they can trade anyone. Bednar should be traded but can’t seen anyone paying for him.
Nutting said recently that he won’t make the same mistake twice about trading Cutch so he’s not going anywhere
That’s what I hate about people that don’t know how to talk. It obviously wasn’t a mistake the first time. They got 14.5 bWAR out of Reynolds and a serviceable RP in Crick. It was a great trade.
And you don’t know about Cutch’s popularity with the fans. Popular players put fans in the seats
Attendance has increased this year and Nuttimg is a businessman first and foremost
Now who doesn’t know how to talk?
Interestingly, there’s no mention of Pittsburgh’s abundance of middle-infield youth. If 2B belongs to Nick Gonzales and Oneil Cruz is expected to be the long-term plan at SS, then Rodolfo Castro and/or Ji Hwan Bae could be expendable.
Bae seems like a nice utility player to keep around, but Castro certainly could be moved and not be missed. Maybe he doesn’t bring a big return on his own. But paired with one of the veterans that could be traded, perhaps the Pirates can get a decent pitching prospect.
I see Castro being a throw in on any trade of another player.
Neither he or Connor Joe have been in the starting lineup in more than a week
Castro can’t defend. Only a weak platoon. Not much value.
Bae is only useful defensively in outfield. Under 700 ops bat. A pinch runner defensive replacement in playoffs.
Marcano is only solid at 2b. Doesn’t hit enough to be in demand.
Exactly. Why sell veterans who are doing what they are supposed to and would bring literally no value. I like the potential of Castro, probably the only person in Pittsburgh who does, but man he’s rough around the edges, and I wonder if other teams value him? It wouldn’t hurt to trade one or two of these guys and acquire depth at another position or just more arms.
They could sell but unless they trade Keller, mccutchen or bednar the return will be pretty meh and likely only add depth to their 15-30th rank in their farm System.
Not saying such a player can’t get good but the vast majority of those players are going to be bench options at best and more likely minor league depth options that you call up for 2 weeks when your starter and backup at a position both get hurt.
Those players are important too but won’t really move the needle for the team.as a mccutchen trade is unlikely they really would need to trade Keller or Bednar.
I don’t think they should trade Keller as they need pitching and are not good at developing it but I would still make a small hint to other GMs that Keller would be available for a huge return.
Under normal circumstances I would not trade him but if someone offers you to pay twice his calculated value in a huge prospect haul of upper minors studs you have to consider.
That is because this year there will be a huge sellers market for pitching as the expanded playoffs mean many teams still have some hope and not many have given up. So don’t put Keller out there but communicate that you would be willing to budge for a huge overpay because with all the improvements Keller made he hasn’t had a long history of performance.
But as I said you only give up Keller for a huge overpay. cherington did the same with reynolds when he asked for Julio Rodriguez in return which obviously got turned down. But if someone bites then you need to take the chance.
They could and will likely trade some Medioce guys but don’t expect that to move the needle much it likely will be a return like someone’s 21th and 30th ranked prospect or so.
I’d be thrilled if they threw in Andy Haines as a worthless coach to be named later on any trade
Seriously, Rudolpho Castro’s days are numbered as is Connor Joe. With O’Neill on schedule for return next month and Bae returning next week they will have a glut of infielders and Castro is most likely the most expendable.
His 12 fielding errors lead the team
Whoever has pirates farm 15 to 30 doesn’t know anything about baseball talent evaluation.
I didn’t say they are 15th to 30th, I said a trade of garbage pieces will add prospects to the Pirates 15 to 30th range of their farm System.
The Pirates system is pretty good but the only realistic trades adding talent to their top 10 would be cutch, bednar or keller
Got it. Trading the old rentals probably won’t even add to the 15 to 30. Even if you take out the half dozen guys mlb has in that shouldn’t be and take out the 4 about to graduate. You still have at least another 3 from the draft and half dozen from lower levels that should be in.
Actually the Pirates system is not as good as you think
Their player development leaves a lot to be desired
I wonder about something they are doing with hitters. Temarr Johnson and nick gonzales had been seen as plus hitters and now they both strike out a huge amount.
Either it has been scouting (stuff that was not exposed by amateur pitching) or something they are teaching them (maybe to increase power?) Causing this.
There’s a fairly big difference when you’re a stud hitter facing high school kids vs kids who have been in a system a few years. It’s pretty early to say Johnson has regressed. If he’s in the system 2-3 years and showing regression then it’s a problem. Folks want instant results and sometimes that’s just not how it works.
That’s true and he can certainly turn it around but scouts were saying “best HS hit tool since joe mauer” but joe mauer was striking out 8% his first season in A ball and not 30% like Johnson.
If you look at the hitters the Pirates bring up a lot of them have big K rates well above 25% (cruz,suwinsky, Nicky G and others), they exeption to that in the last years really only was Hayes.
Obviously K rate isn’t everything but you need big power and walks to compensate for a high 20s to low 30s K rate.
Pirates are buyers with Luis Robert and Kopech on their radar
Why would Robert be on their radar when Suwinski is their starting center fielder and Davis their right fielder?
Reynolds is their left fielder
They want Davis in the lineup every day and with Endy coming they can split the catcher duties
Why would the White Sox trade 2 players under team control for the next several years? The Pirates are not gutting their farm system to make this deal and are not trading Reynolds for them after just signing him to a new deal
What about considering some of their other relivers like Moreta, Holderman, Ramirez? Sure they’re young and controllable and could be longer term pieces but at the same time they are really just middle relief types which we all know are one of the most inconsistent performers. All three have been decent, not great, and have at least a little bit of a track record to show its not totally luck. Almost all contenders are looking for bullpen help. And the Bucs seem to have a few even younger guys coming up with good results. It may wind up they need to replace those guys to reboot and contend again but finding relievers to fill out a bullpen is, at least theoretically, a lot easier than other areas and if it brings back a few legitimate near-ML depth pieces or even starters that could be an avenue to get something from an area that to be honest a non-contending team doesn’t really need to have.
I feel like anyone is available for the Pirates. A team would have to have enough interest. No reason to trade 4 to 6 years of control unless it’s something of interest.
Selling garbage will get you nothing back but somebody else’s garbage…..maybe that’s Pittsburgs plan……37 year old first baseman who’s hitting .230…..43 year old “innings eater”, with an almost 5ERA and another banged up first baseman who’s hitting .230…..wow let’s watch the league get in the trading line for these mooks!
Rocky I see your point and hope my team isn’t in line for any those referenced but sadly, teams do get in those lines every year. They give up an 18 year old that has <5% chance of even being an mlb player for a guy that at least last year or recently was above league average hoping to squeeze out the last 2 months of a rejuvenated career out of a guy.
They signed Santana specifically because of his ability to work with younger players not because they thought he’d win the triple crown rocky7 and Pittsburgh has an “H”
Nothing more ignorant than having to teach people how to spell
Come on now dude, let’s not judge rocky by the spelling but by the quality of the ideas…which are just as bad as the spelling.
Nothing garbage about any of those players. They will help you win a championship while keeping your farm system. By using batting average and era you obviously don’t know. But solid players that could help any team with a 5th starter 1b need.
It’s funny that every year it seems, a few of those “garbage” players get a big hit or two or throw a few big innings that gets a team into or farther into the playoffs. I could see Santana, Choi or Hill doing exactly that
Going of my last comment about the relievers Moreta, Holdernan, Ramirez etc. Something like dealing one of them for a player like Bobby Dalbec from the Red Sox. The Sox NEED pitching and are trying to get anything of value for him… maybe a reliever and a lottery ticket low A player or something gets it done (or maybe just straight up or even lottery ticket the other way depending on how teams assess those RPs beyond their #s)
I’d be okay with Ramirez or Moreta being traded for a lottery ticket (but not both). Once upon a time the Pirates traded Tony Watson for a lottery ticket at the deadline…his name was Oneil Cruz.
Holderman has a lot more upside that Ramirez and Moreta maybe even more. More control as well. Would take something special to move either.
That’s why I didn’t include Holderman, I wouldn’t even entertain moving him this season.
Ramirez would probably only garner a lottery ticket type since he is an average reliever with 3 years of control left. Moreta would garner much more of a package since he’s younger, has 5 years of control left, and is the better pitcher with high-leverage upside. I don’t think it’s likely either get moved, but at least a chance Ramirez does.
I’m taking calls on Bednar. Relievers are easier to replace than starters, you can get one in free agency. I don’t think the value will ever be higher on Bednar, who can fetch ya a top 100 prospect or two. You gotta extend Keller, starting pitching isn’t cheap. Those American League East teams are all going to be scrambling for pitching.
Cutch sells jerseys. They will keep him.
As does Bednar and is a hometown favorite and a local having been born not 30 miles from PNC Park
What should the Pirates do with Miquel Andujar? He failed to hit earlier this year when he was in the majors. Down at Indy, he batting .365/.426/1.013.. Pretty impressive at any level But is he AAAA or could he perform at the majors? Interested to hear what others think. He is not on the forty man roster.
He’s such a polarizing player on this site
The guy is hitting and his stats scream allowing him to have a good, long look on a team that is offensively anemic and fading fast. And it’s not like there is any outfielder nipping at his heels for a call up here
I vividly remember when Marcano was tearing the cover off the ball in Indy earlier in the season, now you’re lucky if he gets a hit
Same with Mathias. He hit well at Indy,
couldn’t hit anything out of the infield in Pittsburgh
I put zero stock in players that do well at Indy but can’t hit their weight at the major league level
Neither of the guys you listed ever have had a lick of power
I’ll just ask you this: what’s the harm in it? Let’s put a caveat here: if Hedges, Santana and/or Choi go, as expected, how do you keep the guy down when Davis can catch and likely play some 1st base
I’m not against Andujar returning to the parent club, I’m just pointing out that hitting in the minors doesn’t always translate into hitting in the majors
The difference between Andujar vs Marcano and Mathias is that Adujar has played great for an extended period of time in MLB. Granted his overall profile is not well…..but baseball is a game of adjustments and if his hitting is due to a good adjustment, then he needs a chance. Also…he accepted the outright so he went down with the intention to work hard and return. Give him the chance.
Yep. And the guy has done everything he’s been asked to do. He’s hit .365, hit 10 HR, produced 57 RBI in 252 AB. Not shabby. Time to give him
An extended look. He’s accomplished success one year in the big leagues….just maybe he’s ready to produce again. Let’s find out.
Andujar will get to play mostly 1b after Santana and or Choi Joe are traded. No idea how he will do. Looks good at Indy. Probably plays good enough to go through arbitration and be awful next year. Yoshi 2.0
Selling at deadline isn’t about the returns. You take what you can get on the rentals. It’s about 1. Dumping salary. 2. Getting better draft odds. Pirates could never catch Oakland Kansas. Handful of other teams are worse. But thanks to the draft lottery to prevent tanking it gets teams to tank even more. Pirates can use 1 more high pick.
Bednar to the Mets, they need relief pitchers beyond this year
Hahahahaha. Thanks. Needed a good laugh
Garcia might be back for the playoffs.
after last night’s fielding fiasco, and lack of offense, it might be time for the team to fire the hitting coach and fielding coach
Shelton again misused the bullpen, Holderman has now blown 2 save opportunities in 3 games and has always been used as the setup man.
There’s no excuse for batting Suwinski in the lead off position or Reynolds second
That logic of your best players get more ABs batting higher in the order doesn’t apply to this team