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Brewers Non-Tender Brandon Woodruff

By Steve Adams | November 17, 2023 at 11:55pm CDT

The Brewers are non-tendering starter Brandon Woodruff, as first reported by Bob Nightengale of USA Today (X link). Woodruff underwent shoulder surgery in October and is expected to miss the majority of the 2024 season.

The injury put Milwaukee in a bind, as Woodruff was also entering his final season of club control. Given his excellent track record and prior salaries, he’d been projected for a hearty $11.6MM salary in arbitration, per MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz. There was no real way for Milwaukee to lower this past season’s $10.8MM salary by any meaningful amount; arbitration salaries can be cut by a maximum of 40%, and the Brewers surely would’ve had to go to an arbitration hearing if they sought such a reduction. Even if they’d won that, Woodruff would’ve been set to earn just shy of $6.5MM in a season where he isn’t expected to pitch much — if at all.

The Brewers discussed multi-year arrangements with Woodruff and trades with other clubs, but neither set of negotiations manifested in a deal. With tonight’s non-tender deadline looming, the Brewers bit the bullet and made what GM Matt Arnold described in a statement as one of the most difficult decisions of his career. Said Arnold:

“Today we had to make a very difficult decision relating to one of the best pitchers and human beings in franchise history. Throughout his 10 seasons in the organization, Brandon Woodruff has represented the Brewers with class, kindness, heart and toughness. He is recognized as a tremendous teammate, both on the field and in the community, where he and his wife, Jonie, have positively impacted so many lives around them. We remain very open to his return to Milwaukee, and regardless of what uniform he wears next, Woody will always be a member of the Brewers family.”

That the Brewers remain open to some kind of reunion is a key takeaway from Arnold’s comments, though obviously Woodruff will now be able to freely negotiate with all 29 other teams. And while the possibility of a year-long absence from the mound looms large, the 30-year-old righty’s track record will surely draw substantial interest — likely on two-year contracts that allow him to rehab with a team for the first season before hopefully enjoying a full and healthy season in year two.

Since establishing himself on the Brewers’ roster in 2018, Woodruff and teammate Corbin Burnes have formed a dominant one-two punch atop the Milwaukee rotation. The 6’4″, 240-pound righty has pitched to a combined 2.98 ERA over 637 1/3 innings in that time, striking out 29.7% of his opponents against a 6.4% walk rate. He’s posted a slightly below-average ground-ball rate (42.4%) and kept the ball in the yard rather well, particularly considering his homer-friendly home environs (0.99 HR/9). Woodruff has generated swinging strikes at a big 12.7% clip and induced chases on pitches off the plate at a hearty 33.2% rate. Simply put, he’s been one of the best and most underrated starters in the National League — at least on a per-inning basis.

If there’s a knock on Woodruff, it’s been his durability (or lack thereof). He’s never topped 179 1/3 innings in a season, has only made 30 starts on one occasion and has averaged just 22 starts per year over his past four 162-game seasons. (Notably, he did start a league-leading 13 games during the Covid-shortened 2020 campaign.)

That said, this is the first year of his big league career in which Woodruff has had a major arm injury. His most prominent other absences were due to oblique and ankle injuries. That didn’t make up for the lost time necessarily, but it paints a more favorable long-term outlook than would be the case had a series of shoulder and elbow troubles kept him off the field in recent years and culminated in this recent procedure.

Now that he’s a free agent, Woodruff becomes one of the most intriguing arms on the market — not necessarily for the 2024 season but from a longer-term perspective. Any team would surely be thrilled to stash Woodruff on the injured list in hopes of a late-2024 return and a close-to-full workload in 2025. His presence on the market gives clubs the rare opportunity to sign a top-of-the-rotation arm at a relatively bargain rate, though any deal for Woodruff will surely afford him the opportunity to return to free agency sooner than later — likely by the 2025-26 offseason.

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Milwaukee Brewers Newsstand Transactions Brandon Woodruff

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158 Comments

  1. gojira15

    2 years ago

    He’s injured. Makes sense.

    16
    Reply
    • RunDMC

      2 years ago

      Guy has a career 3.10 ERA (3.19 FiP) / 137 ERA+ — they couldn’t find a taker with first dibs on bringing him back post-AS Break for the stretch and possibly gaining a comp pick if he’s good and make him a QO that he turns down?

      This feels like a Dodgers move it’s insane.

      7
      Reply
      • CardsFan57

        2 years ago

        Odds are he was never going to pitch for them again. Why pay him more than $10 million for nothing?

        28
        Reply
        • RunDMC

          2 years ago

          I was under the impression that his ETA was post-AS Break for a team that is almost always in the hunt. Is that not the case? This is the last year with Burnes (unless they trade him), getting someone of his caliber back for the stretch could be huge.

          1
          Reply
        • brewsingblue82

          2 years ago

          @RUNDMC it depends on whose ETA you listen to. Some say he’ll miss most, if not all of next season. He’s optimistic he’ll be back mid season.

          6
          Reply
        • cowdisciple

          2 years ago

          You use the leverage to pay him 20m for two years.

          4
          Reply
        • CuddyFox

          2 years ago

          I see the Cardinals get him. He can miss 2024 and return in 2025, a la Chris Carpenter. Carpenter miss the 2003 season and return in 2004, got released by the Blue Jays om 2003, and the Cardinals pick him up and he went from an injured pitcher in 2003 to a Cy Young winner 2 years later.

          3
          Reply
        • Four4fore

          2 years ago

          Walt Jocketty is gone.

          5
          Reply
        • CardsFan57

          2 years ago

          Picking up Woodruff will be much more expensive than Carpenter was.

          1
          Reply
        • avenger65

          2 years ago

          I hate to even think about it, but his former manager is just 90 minutes south.

          2
          Reply
        • BrettPhillips for Prezident

          2 years ago

          Man I hope so. Great buy low candidate

          1
          Reply
        • cdouglas24000

          2 years ago

          I’ve heard from brewers fan sites he’s supposed to have a 50/50 shot of being in a major league game by early Sept. He’s been great for the organization, there’s no doubt. But 10 milly for 1 month is an insane price to pay so I side with the brew crew on this 1.

          6
          Reply
        • Deadguy

          2 years ago

          So is Dave Duncan…

          “It’s CARP”

          Phone hangs up on reciever

          Reply
        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          @CardsFan57: Considering that only about one of every three pitchers who have shoulder capsule surgery ever pitch again, the odds are sadly that he probably won’t pitch for anyone again.

          5
          Reply
        • MLB Top 100 Commenter

          2 years ago

          Brett Phillips for President

          Brett is probably polling ahead of Dean right now even with Twins fans

          4
          Reply
        • tstats

          2 years ago

          1/3<50% so odds are not that he doesn’t pitch again by your own stat?

          Reply
        • sfes

          2 years ago

          @Blue Isn’t that what ended Santana’s career?

          Reply
        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          Indeed. He only pitched about 10 more times after his no-hitter in 2012.

          Reply
        • sfes

          2 years ago

          I remember watching that game and wondering how torn Terry Collins was about letting him stay in. During his post game conference between tears he said when he left the mound he told Santana he was his hero.

          2
          Reply
        • dray16

          2 years ago

          Brewers fans sites definitely know what they’re talking about.

          1
          Reply
        • Jaysfansince92

          2 years ago

          I still hate Ricciardi for that.

          Reply
        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          @Jaysfansince92: Hate Ricciardi for what?

          Reply
        • sfes

          2 years ago

          @Blue Releasing Chris Carpenter

          1
          Reply
        • Jaysfansince92

          2 years ago

          @Sfes you are correct. Releasing Carpenter was one of the worst moves the Jays ever made. Having him and Halladay at the top of the rotation would have likely stopped the playoff drought much earlier.

          1
          Reply
        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          But every team has dumb moves like that in their history.

          The Mets traded Amos Otis for Joe Foy, Nolan Ryan for Jim Fregosi, and Rusty Staub for Mickey Lolich.

          The Cubs traded Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio.

          The Reds traded Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas.

          The Phillies traded Ryne Sandberg for Ivan DeJesus.

          The Nationals/Expos traded Randy Johnson for Mark Langston.

          The Yankees traded Willie McGee for Bob Sykes and Fred McGriff for Dale Murray. Would you give that one back for the Jays to have kept Carpenter?

          The Red Sox sold Babe Ruth for cash.

          Those are a few off the top of my head, but there are plenty of other examples like this.

          Reply
        • Jaysfansince92

          2 years ago

          At least the one you mention were all trades. Carpenter was just given away for nothing. All they had to do was tender him a contract.

          Reply
        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          But they were trades for negligible returns.

          And would you give Fred McGriff back to the Yankees if it meant the Jays could have Carpenter back?

          Reply
      • 1984wasntamanual

        2 years ago

        Which AS break, 2025? He’s not going to be back by the ASB in 2024.

        9
        Reply
      • claude raymond

        2 years ago

        You lost me Run. You’re saying “make him a QO that he turns down.” Do you mean a QO after 24 season after you’ve paid 11mill for the 24 season?

        Reply
      • Braves46

        2 years ago

        The thing is, because of the uncertainty with this kind of injury, there’s a realistic chance he doesn’t get offered a QO. If he comes back in September down 2 mph on his fastball and getting crushed, the team might not want to risk offering it and end up unintentionally signing him for 20 millions bucks and receiving no compensatory pick

        1
        Reply
        • CardsFan57

          2 years ago

          @Braves46
          He’s been non tendered. He’s a free agent now. Qualifying offer doesn’t enter into it.

          2
          Reply
        • marcfrombrooklyn

          2 years ago

          I think he may mean that he won’t get a QO after next season if he comes back late in the 2023 season. You never know. Syndergaard got a QO after throwing just two innings following TJ surgery but capsule surgery is much more problematic. It’s an unlikely scenario. If they’d tendered a contract (or he agreed to 2024 contract with a pay cut) in the hope of him returning next year, the risk for 2025 would be on Woodruff. He could end up stuck with a low-end deal for 2025. He can probably get a two-year contract with incentives now that would protect him if he has a setback or is much less effective when he returns.

          Reply
        • DrDan75

          2 years ago

          @braves46

          First of all, we’re past the deadline for that. Secondly, QO’s are only offered to top tier FA’s to guarantee some compensation to teams losing their best players to free agency. Very few players get them. You don’t make a $20+ million QO to a player expected to sign for half that in free agency because the player would obviously just take the money.

          Reply
        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          @DrDan75: The whole idea of receiving compensation for a free agent is dumb anyway.

          A player’s last team no longer has any contractual rights to the player, so it shouldn’t be entitled to compensation if the player signs with a different team.

          And there have been some ridiculous methods for this. The Mets lost Tom Seaver to the White Sox in 1984 because Dennis Lamp left Chicago to sign with the Blue Jays.

          No way the Mets deserved to be penalized like that.

          Reply
      • Diggerydoo

        2 years ago

        OR…There is more to it than we see, per his injury and the prognosis and time frame

        Reply
    • afsooner02

      2 years ago

      no guarantee he’s the same in 2025 either. this is the right call. not worth blowing 8 figures on a guy who won’t contribute in 24.

      7
      Reply
      • AlBundysFanClubPresident

        2 years ago

        I’m wondering if MKE knows, or expects him to miss ALL of next year (and if he ever pitches again, effectively, and so on)..

        Add to that they apparently couldn’t find a trade partner, or a deal they were satisfied with, and it makes sense to cut ties. In this one instance, it’s not simply because they are cheap.

        5
        Reply
        • tonyc-2

          2 years ago

          I’ve been following this since he was put on the injured list. According to other pitchers with this kind of surgery it’s unlikely he pitches at all in 2024.
          It would be neat if Milwaukee could offer him a 3 year deal with the last year a club option. Maybe something like $25mil,… most of it for the 2nd and 3rd year of the contract. Milw can’t afford to cover injured players on new deals knowing he’s out for a year. It is what it is unfortunately.

          Reply
    • LordD99

      2 years ago

      Tough emotional decision but the proper baseball decision. He’ll be 32-years-old when he likely next throws his next MLB pitch, and he’ll be attempting to come back from Anterior Capsule shoulder surgery, which is often devastating to a pitcher’s effectiveness. Julio Urias is the most successful example of a pitcher returning to top form, but he was only 20-years-old. Most pitchers are over 30 when they have this surgery, and results are at best spotty. Think Johan Santana pre and post surgery.

      Tough decision (but not really) for the Brewers, and tough surgery and bad timing for Woodruff.

      7
      Reply
      • PutPeteinthehall

        2 years ago

        Reminds me of John Danks. No one was trading for Woodruff. No one’s going to take a flier. Has to rehab with insurance and then if healthy try to get a deal.

        Reply
  2. THEY LIVE!!!

    2 years ago

    Wow!!

    Reply
  3. DonOsbourne

    2 years ago

    I still don’t think this is the best course of action. Small market teams need to be more creative.

    2
    Reply
    • Goku the Knowledgable One

      2 years ago

      alright , Pirates need to sign anyone their division opponents drop.

      can’t go too wrong. that’s my creative approach to FA for them.

      1
      Reply
      • DonOsbourne

        2 years ago

        Better check out the Cards lengthy list of non tenders. Steve Adams will be proud.

        3
        Reply
        • Deadguy

          2 years ago

          The Cards needed to Non tender Marmol and tender Schmaker but that’s why Ronald McDonald’s burger phone made Adam Wainwright suck? John Mozeliak will make all the wrong calls!

          He’s so charitable he “gift wraps” all stars for the AL! Never knew the Stl Cardinals were the Ronald McDonald Farmhouse of the MLB! Till I saw em down in Arozarena Bay? Zac Gallen said Tommy Pham will make em pay? It’s all Gabbys fault! Justice for Gabby Moreno! Cause Tyler O’Neill projects higher than Adolis Garcia and Harrison Bader Combined? Hohoho Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

          2
          Reply
        • Deadguy

          2 years ago

          Marquis Grisom, Larry Walker, Moises Alou, Pedro Martinez, John Wettland…. seem familiar? Ought to…

          1
          Reply
    • Bill

      2 years ago

      So you sign him for one year when he won’t be able to pitch and then he can be a free agent and leave?

      1
      Reply
      • Goku the Knowledgable One

        2 years ago

        9 years KeBryan Hayes style

        1
        Reply
    • tonyc-2

      2 years ago

      Would you donate to the Brewers GoFundMe account? It’s all about money. Brewers revenue is just under $300mil/yr while the bigger city teams are taking in $400mil or more.

      Reply
  4. James Midway

    2 years ago

    How long is he expected to be out?

    1
    Reply
    • ReddVencher

      2 years ago

      Most if not the entire season.

      11
      Reply
    • Buzzz Killington

      2 years ago

      Article says career over I read it.

      5
      Reply
  5. FenwayFanatic

    2 years ago

    HUH

    2
    Reply
    • Prospectnvstr

      2 years ago

      FenwayFanatic: That was sarcasm from Buzzz towards James Midway. JM asked the stupidly dumb question “How long is he expected to be out?” despite it PLAINLY states in the article that they expect him to miss most if not all of this coming season.

      Reply
      • Blue Baron

        2 years ago

        But a medical study a few years back showed that there’s better than a 60% chance he never pitches again.

        1
        Reply
        • JoeBrady

          2 years ago

          Do you have cite for that? I tried to research it, but the articles I found unfortunately didn’t apply to MLB pitchers.

          1
          Reply
        • Blue Baron

          2 years ago

          ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3899910/

          Reading through it again, I may have misread some of the percentages at first glance.

          Draw your own conclusions.

          Reply
  6. seamaholic 2

    2 years ago

    Tough situation, but this isn’t the best course. Brewers’ payroll must be SERIOUSLY challenged.

    3
    Reply
    • AlBundysFanClubPresident

      2 years ago

      I’m thinking not a lot of teams would rush to pay $11 or $12 mil for a guy who might not pitch at all next year. Unless they can get a cheap year after that, and are absolutely convinced he’ll return, to form, the following year.
      Certainly a team wanting us all to believe they’re cash strapped isn’t dishing out that kind of dough.

      4
      Reply
      • Subatomicbunt

        2 years ago

        Well well well….Spare Tire Dixon!!…Why’d ya do it Spare Tire? Why’d you steal my trophy?!

        Reply
  7. Monkey’s Uncle

    2 years ago

    This does beg the question: how much wood could Woodruff rough if Woodruff could rough wood?

    Or… maybe it doesn’t.

    26
    Reply
    • For Love of the Game

      2 years ago

      Well played!

      2
      Reply
  8. solaris602

    2 years ago

    Any team signing him has to assume he’ll be out the entire season. I would.

    6
    Reply
  9. barkinghumans77

    2 years ago

    StL needs to be on the phone pronto. Any and all avenues to rebuild the rotation needed! Even if he’s not helping until the 2nd half, he’s helping.

    2
    Reply
    • Echopark

      2 years ago

      STL makes sense. But so do a lot of teams including Giants, Dodgers, Red Sox, Yankees, Orioles, Rangers, etc etc

      1
      Reply
  10. JayRyder

    2 years ago

    Giants.

    3
    Reply
  11. Jake Biggar

    2 years ago

    Breslow get in there!!

    1
    Reply
    • Pedro Martinez’s Mango Tree

      2 years ago

      Sale should be injured by the time Woodruff makes it back

      11
      Reply
  12. Larry Bernandez 1324IM

    2 years ago

    Tough strategy, Cotton. Let’s see if it pays off

    7
    Reply
    • Go Go Power Rangers

      2 years ago

      *bold

      5
      Reply
      • Robert-5

        2 years ago

        F’n A, Cotton. F’n Aaaa.

        5
        Reply
  13. Echopark

    2 years ago

    He’s not pitching next year and if he does it won’t be worth 11.5 million. A team will sign him to a 1 year 1-3 million contract with an option for something like 10-12 million.

    4
    Reply
    • AndyWarpath

      2 years ago

      Absolutely not. He’s signing a 2 year deal – probably 30m’ish.

      3
      Reply
      • LordD99

        2 years ago

        Not $30MM. That’s a $15MM AAV for a guy who was projected to make under $12MM in arbitration in 2024 if healthy. Now he’s going to miss 2024 and he likely will be compromised in 2025 even he’ll be 32. A return to effectiveness for a pitcher having this surgery in his 30s is spotty.

        5
        Reply
        • dray16

          2 years ago

          With his track record it’s not out of the question. The Brewers are just cheap, Burnes gone next.

          1
          Reply
        • Robertguyette

          2 years ago

          How we know it won’t be 2 years at $30 million? Because he would have made $11 million in arbitration this year, and then could have been offered $20 million qualifying offer at the end of next year. That is only $11 guaranteed, with an upper limit of $31 if everything goes right in his recovery. No team offered the Brewers a prospect for that, which means no team is willing to do $30 million guaranteed for 2 years. This is not about the Brewers being cheap, this is about every team in baseball making the exact same decision.
          But in regards to the Brewers being Cheap. With the Bally sports bankruptcy, and no TV contract in place for 2025.. Prior to the deal that Bally gave the Brewers in 2021, the Brewers had the lowest TV deal in baseball. So if Bally Sports gave out too big of deals that they had to sign bankruptcy, what are the chances they will get an even bigger deal from someone else?

          Reply
        • gammaraze

          2 years ago

          You can’t exactly blame Bally Sports. The bankruptcy of Bally Sports is a failure of the FCC. Disney was prevented from acquiring Fox Sports because of their ownership of ESPN. Fox had no intention to continue running their sports division. Fox has a history of being able to bully cable/satellite providers and getting away with it; Fox News is the most expensive non-premium channel on the box. A small independent company never had much of a chance in cable negotiations, nor did they have a revenue stream to absorb any losses.

          If the FCC had allowed Disney to take on the Fox Sports regional stations, none of this would have happened.

          Reply
    • AndyWarpath

      2 years ago

      Way too light.

      Reply
  14. VonPurpleHayes

    2 years ago

    A bit baffling.

    Reply
  15. CardsFan57

    2 years ago

    Another team with more money may sign him to a two year contract. $15 to $20 million total?

    8
    Reply
    • Jeremy320

      2 years ago

      Extremely high risk/reward and expensive. Not economical for small markets.

      2
      Reply
      • CardsFan57

        2 years ago

        That’s why I said a team with more money.

        8
        Reply
    • AndyWarpath

      2 years ago

      Too light I think.

      Reply
  16. Roll

    2 years ago

    cmon cohen … perfect opportunity .. 2 yrs 16M with club option for the 3rd year maybe make it mutual vest option based on innings pitched. You get a potential ace for cheap when you want to compete again.

    3
    Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      2 years ago

      Agreed. Smart move for Cohen.

      Reply
    • 1984wasntamanual

      2 years ago

      Why would he sign a contract like that? You’re not getting a third year option if you’re only paying 16 for the first 2.

      3
      Reply
      • cowdisciple

        2 years ago

        Yeah, 2/16 probably not going to be enough. There will be a lot of interest. 2/20, maybe, but no option unless it’s at 1/30m or something.

        2
        Reply
        • Roll

          2 years ago

          His earning potential is a bit limited as he has very good peripherals and a very good pitcher but he will be coming off a major surgery and has only 2 times between his minor and major league career has hit 30 starts or more and never hit over 180 innings in any year. He will be most likely 32 (i dont feel like doing the math) when coming back from that surgery so age plus major surgery definitely hurts value. I wont argue over 4M because when its cohen thats probably a night out on the town for him but if you are talking marlins or pirates they may be out.

          Its the reason why i said maybe put the mutual option in there based on innings which i never said the amount of innings which if he does well he can opt out of the 3rd year or the club can opt if he does not do well. Based on his history probably set the vest at around 120ish which should be a bit over 20 maybe closer to 25 starts.

          Also options can have escalators as well which has been added to contracts signing a couple of times every year. Also you think if he does well with them that they wont put a QO on him? At 33 at the start of 2026 the qualifying offer will put a damper on it making his aav around 25M when you factor in inflation .. maybe a touch more. Im basing this off of what Bassitt got around the same age.

          5
          Reply
    • AndyWarpath

      2 years ago

      Way too light

      Reply
    • 920kodiak

      2 years ago

      Stevie Cohen’s beautiful money.

      Reply
      • ctbronx7

        2 years ago

        There is a difference between spending and spending wisely.
        Steve Cohen didn’t get to be wealthy by squandering his fortune on long shots.

        Reply
    • LordD99

      2 years ago

      No team is getting a club option for the third year.

      1
      Reply
  17. SupremeZeus

    2 years ago

    No-brainer for any low revenue team. They don’t have the luxury to light 10% of their payroll on fire.

    9
    Reply
  18. Monkey’s Uncle

    2 years ago

    Anyone besides me wondering if there’s a handshake deal already in place for Woodruff to return to the Brewers for a 2-year deal for less per year than the arb figure?

    1
    Reply
    • CardsFan57

      2 years ago

      I doubt it. He was never staying with them long term.

      3
      Reply
      • JobuKnows

        2 years ago

        “we remain very open to his return to Milwaukee, and regardless of what uniform he wears next, Woody will always be a member of the Brewers family” -Matt Arnold, GM. = Roughly 5-10% he returns

        4
        Reply
      • enricopallazzo

        2 years ago

        I think there was a chance they’d open up the wallet to keep him, depends on how much he wanted to be a free agent and maximize his leverage though. Burnes was always going to be a goner even before they played hardball with his arbitration last year.

        2
        Reply
    • Go Go Power Rangers

      2 years ago

      If they were trying to trade him before this then I highly doubt it

      1
      Reply
  19. Brewers39

    2 years ago

    Assuming they would at least try to make him a 2-year offer with most of it back ended. Can’t imagine they would simply cut ties without at least trying to work out a deal.

    Reply
    • C Yards Jeff

      2 years ago

      IMO, this is a formality. Deal between club and his agent already done. Plus there’s gotta be like an unspoken integrity code/rule between all clubs to back off pursuing a player in this predicament … and with PAs blessing. Yes? No? Maybe?

      Reply
      • Nuggethoarder

        2 years ago

        There is no integrity code.

        The Brewers could have worked out an extension with him prior to non-tendering. They didn’t.

        Fact is, a two year contract for him is basically a one year (2025) pillow contract. If it’s 2/20 he is getting paid 18 million to pitch (if he can) in 2025 and two million for the slim chance he pitches in 2024.

        2
        Reply
    • HighOnPineTar

      2 years ago

      That wouldn’t change the situation for the Brewers in 2024 at all if you did that because you would average the total of both years into to the AAV… So $3 mil 2024 and $17 mil 2025 would then still become $10 mil burned in their 2024 payroll.

      1
      Reply
    • JoeBrady

      2 years ago

      The issue could be on Woodruff’s side, or with the medicals. If he thinks he will be back earlier, say throwing in July and in rotation in mid-August, he is a lot more valuable than a two-year contract.

      Or Mil’s docs might be telling them that he is not coming back at all.

      Reply
  20. rct

    2 years ago

    One would assume the Brewers approached him with a two year offer at like $14-18 million total, covering his recovery next year and the full 2025 season. ie, keeping him around another year, albeit in 2025 instead of next year.

    Or maybe they just decided to save money and not even bother. Pretty bold move, but I guess when you’re being cost-conscious, you have to make tough decisions.

    2
    Reply
    • AlBundysFanClubPresident

      2 years ago

      It’s entirely possible there were any number of offers, counter offers, negotiations, and so on. Seems I either read somewhere or heard a blurb about trying to work something out with a 2 year arrangement-but my guess is the Brewers don’t have much belief he can return to form, and made the tough (emotional) choice to move on.

      Hope I’m wrong, and he re-ups, smashes his rehab and comes back Aug 1st next year and goes 6-1 with a 1.96 ERA down the stretch..but that 1 realistic bone in my body says notgonnahappen.

      3
      Reply
  21. UWPSUPERFAN77

    2 years ago

    A 2-year deal would be 11.6 million for nothing this year. I have heard you cannot cut someone more then 20 percent. If right, 20 million for one year of use. Too expensive for the crew! Sorry to see him go. I wish him a good future and God’s blessing!

    4
    Reply
    • MLB Top 100 Commenter

      2 years ago

      This is not a religion site, but are there some players that you wish do not receive God’s blessing? Maybe the ones that mo-lest kids or hit women?

      1
      Reply
    • Horace Fury

      2 years ago

      He’s been non-tendered, so he is no longer in his arbitration years–he is a free agent. A two-year contract could easily take the form of $2MM for 2024 and $20MM for 2025. Nobody is stuck giving him $11.6MM for 2024–only the Brewers would have had to pay that IF they had tendered him a contract. They didn’t.

      1
      Reply
  22. MLB Top 100 Commenter

    2 years ago

    This could be an indicator that Woodruff is open to not signing until he is healthy rather than taking a lowball two or three year deal.

    1
    Reply
    • Jeremy320

      2 years ago

      Or Woodruff wanted to open up the field to all teams for a 2-year deal. Why acquiesce to a trade and be forced into dealing with only one team?

      2
      Reply
    • CardsFan57

      2 years ago

      I’m sure it depends on the offer but this isn’t TJ surgery. It’s his shoulder. He may never be the same pitcher. He may take a decent two year deal.

      5
      Reply
  23. kpd47

    2 years ago

    Rangers – 2 year deal at $20-25M with club option/player vesting at $20+ for that 3rd year. He’s definitely worth the investment. He’s an Ace or very strong 2 when he’s healthy.

    1
    Reply
    • Garmo87

      2 years ago

      Agree. I think there is money coming off the books after ‘24. Recover with DeGrom and ‘25 will have a stacked starting staff.

      2
      Reply
  24. Old York

    2 years ago

    Pretty average player given his career WAA (adjusted) is negative 0.6. Not worth investing in him.

    Reply
    • enricopallazzo

      2 years ago

      Where do you see this? Any metric showing he is a negative or replacement level player is highly questionable, or better yet laughable.

      2
      Reply
      • Old York

        2 years ago

        @enricopallazzo

        Baseball Reference

        WAA adjusted.

        Reply
    • Dorothy_Mantooth

      2 years ago

      @Old York – You looked up the wrong player. He’s been Top 3 in Cy Young voting at least once if not twice already. No way he has a -0.6 WAA for his career.

      Reply
    • WeeWoo

      2 years ago

      WAAadj is not a stat to measure a value of a starting pitcher. It factors in high leverage innings that a reliever would pitch much higher than early innings. The great Roger Clemens had a career -3.1.

      If you’re going to cite bbref, maybe you should understand the stat first.

      6
      Reply
      • Old York

        2 years ago

        @WeeWoo

        Exactly, he’s not good in high leverage situations so why invest in that? Also, as I pointed out with the Cy Young award for Snell, the voters aren’t using the correct data to evaluate pitchers so the wrong guy won.

        Reply
        • sviscusi

          2 years ago

          You shouldn’t use stats if you don’t understand what they are or for what role their measuring. WAA adj is a measurement that most valuable for relievers.

          Even if you didn’t that, why would you go through an entire page of advanced measurements, all saying one thing that this is a damn good pitcher, and pick the 1 out of 20 that says the opposite? Are you trolling or just that dense?.

          7
          Reply
        • Old York

          2 years ago

          Thanks for showing your stats bias. Can’t believe you posted that. LOL!

          Reply
        • WeeWoo

          2 years ago

          @Old York

          I’ll reply one more time to answer your question and to ask one question.

          Why do you invest in a pitcher who isn’t “good” in high leverage situations? You invest in run prevention and run generation, those are the only things that matter in any game. Best defense is baseball is to take defense out of the equation. High K/BB ratio, FIP, and low HR/9 are your most likely indicators for any value as a pitcher. Run prevention is the only thing that you invest on for a pitcher. The less likely a pitcher is to have men on base and keep the ball out of play or in the yard means fewer runs. And if your pitcher can go 5-7 innings giving up as few runs as possible, you do not need to have a WAAadj conversation if your offense score more runs than the other team.

          To call someone out on stat bias is quite contradictory to your failure to grasp the stat that you’ve pointed out. WAAadj is truly relevant for last three innings in close games. My question to you is this: if you had a chance to pay a pitcher based off only WAAadj, would you be knowledgeable enough to make that decision without the rest of the picture? What kind of information would you need to make an offer to a pitcher? Say Woodruff had a career WAAadj of 1.4? Would you say that’s valuable, and if so how much value would you put on that alone? Does anything else need to be considered, such as injury history, current injuries, or any of the stats I’ve listed?

          To be clear, my example in this question is Josh Hader’s career WAAadj. He is most likely the highest paid free agent reliever of this class, and will not be paid based solely on his careeer WAAadj. And using stats in determining value is important, but WAAadj is really not a great metric to use in solely determining value, questioning your “stat bias”. At any rate, I’m no front office exec, nor anyone who pretends to know what a player is worth, but I don’t throw out criticizing remarks to posters about “stat bias” when I don’t understand the metric and how it’s used.

          2
          Reply
        • bazbal

          2 years ago

          Gerrit Cole’s WAAadj is -1.3. Was he not worth investing in too?

          Reply
  25. dennymagnet

    2 years ago

    Giants would be wise here to sign Woody. So would he, maybe it’s not as pitcher friendly as it was, but still a great spot for him to shine.

    Reply
  26. GooseGoslinGuy

    2 years ago

    Neither the story nor any of you geniuses has mentioned exactly what kind of shoulder surgery it is. Is it rotator cuff? What?? Might be helpful to know how invasive it is and what the normal return expectations are.

    Reply
    • Robertguyette

      2 years ago

      “Passan notes that Woodruff is expected to miss the entirety of the 2024 season. There had been some debate about that recently. If that’s true, then it makes sense as to why the team wouldn’t want to pay him to not pitch.”
      There was no way the Brewers could afford to pay him to not pitch, and then next year have him be a free agent anyways. I’m not even sure why another team would consider trading for him, once the injury happened, this was the inevitable end to his Brewer’s career.

      Reply
    • JoeBrady

      2 years ago

      Neither the story nor any of you geniuses has mentioned exactly what kind of shoulder surgery it is
      ==========================
      Some of us “geniuses” keep abreast of current BB news and knew what the injury is,

      And, if you scrolled all the way down to the SECOND line of the article, there is a link to the surgery story.

      1
      Reply
  27. Bounty Hunters IA

    2 years ago

    He’ll follow Counsell to Chicago. Cubs can afford his salary much easier than small market teams like Milwaukee and east missouri cesspool. Cubs have a history of this type of contract working out well for them.

    3
    Reply
    • acoss13

      2 years ago

      I can see the Cubs doing a two-year deal expecting him to pitch in 2025. Wouldn’t mind that at all Cubs can afford it.

      1
      Reply
  28. mang

    2 years ago

    Cc: Craig Breslow

    Reply
    • Crew2011

      2 years ago

      Sad for Crew, but I get it. Was hoping for that 2 year contract. I agree with others, will end up in Chicago. They are gonna spend bucco bucks this season.

      2
      Reply
      • mang

        2 years ago

        I can empathize with fans of a small market team. The business side of baseball can be cruel.

        Reply
  29. foppert1

    2 years ago

    If I’m Woodruff, I’m looking to go short with the organisation that has the best pitcher rehab reputation and support. Not much else matters at this point.

    1
    Reply
  30. runningwithnailclippers

    2 years ago

    I think the Reds make a lot of sense as a signee. If they are honest with themselves, they are probably still a year from being real contenders for a title. Why not take a flier on him and plot for 2025 as the season for them to go for it?

    Reply
  31. Astrosfn1979

    2 years ago

    I think he rehabs and has a showcase about the all star break. Signs, builds himself up in AAA and joins a rotation in September.

    Risky. Betting on himself.

    Reply
  32. richardc

    2 years ago

    The Braves should go after him, he should be healthy by the time they start to lose all their top starters.

    It’s been going on for the last four to five years, why not go ahead and have an Ace up your sleeve for when it inevitably happens again!?!

    1
    Reply
    • Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman

      2 years ago

      I agree Richard. Braves did this with Yates. After all this head scratching moves especially Kyle Wright they have to be doing something starting pitching wise. My mind is blitzed losing Shuster/Wright/Soroka all in 1 day. AA must be going after Nola or Gray hard at least but I can see a Woodruff signing as well.

      Reply
  33. 1984wasntamanual

    2 years ago

    Sucks for MIL that they ended up getting nothing for him.

    1
    Reply
  34. Degaz

    2 years ago

    Some team should gamble a $5-7M this year and a $15-$20M option for 2025 with something like. $2M buyout. Remember he also still has a QO available which is big.

    1
    Reply
  35. Seaver rules

    2 years ago

    Cubs is a good possibility but his voicemail from David Stearns is the song “ Meet the Mets, Meet the Mets, come on down……Woody will look good in Blue n Orange.

    Reply
  36. j_butte

    2 years ago

    All the moves the Braves made to clear roster spots could be for a move like this. Seems like an AA move for a one year deal with a team option for 2025.

    Reply
  37. kripes-brewers

    2 years ago

    I sure appreciate watching him over the years. He had a great run. Unfortunately, he’ll very likely never be the same pitcher again. Rehab, get better and enjoy life Woody. Maybe we’ll see ya in the broadcast booth!

    2
    Reply
  38. walter8706

    2 years ago

    Reminds me of Nathan evoldi and the rays situation from years ago

    Reply
  39. JoeBrady

    2 years ago

    $20M/2 with a team option of $60M/4 after the 2nd year.

    Reply
    • CityofChampions

      2 years ago

      Don’t see a lot of upside for Woodruff Inking that. I think he’s good enough to get about the 2/20 without giving away the rest of his career at a 4/60 team option.

      2
      Reply
      • WestVillageTiger

        2 years ago

        If you sign him now, you’d have to build a season and a half of rehab into the deal. A backloaded deal with incentives makes the most sense…

        Reply
    • AndyWarpath

      2 years ago

      No way he signs that deal. He’s going to want a pillow contract to bank on himself and be a healthy free agent after the 25 season.

      Reply
  40. ih8tepaperstraws

    2 years ago

    Signing Woodruff would be a smart move by Mozalak and he doesn’t make many of those. He is someone thought they should have targeted next off season. The Cardinals are going to finish at the bottom of the league again this year, so they have no need to rush him back and let him fully recover for 2025. He would be coming in on a discounted contract with performance escalators. That contract would allow them to go heavy at Wheeler and probably still have cap room for someone like Robby Ray.

    Reply
  41. its_happening

    2 years ago

    Blue Jays should do what they did with Chad Green and acquire him. With little pitching in the minors he’d replace Kikuchi in 2025. Or Manoah.

    Reply
  42. AHH-Rox

    2 years ago

    Somebody like the Cubs or Braves should sign him to a backloaded 2-year deal with incentives the 2nd year as a hedge in case he doesn’t come back effective.
    Something like 5M in year one and 12M in year two, but with incentives for starts or innings in year two that would allow the 12M to increase to 20M if he comes back successfully and stays healthy.

    1
    Reply
  43. Tom the ray fan

    2 years ago

    If our rotation wasn’t so injured I’d say sign him, we helped revamp Eovaldi I can see something similar here but we need arms that are healthy.

    Reply
  44. Chicks dig bunting

    2 years ago

    Iam not sure about his recovery from this surgery I don’t believe pitchers recover to well from this.it would be an interesting signing I mean he’s second best might be more better than some other pitchers out there

    Reply
  45. gata

    2 years ago

    Mr. Woodruff, an AA is on line 1….

    Reply
  46. Deleted Userr

    2 years ago

    Maybe even with Milwaukee.

    Reply
  47. bravesfan

    2 years ago

    Would love him on the Braves.

    Reply
  48. Robertguyette

    2 years ago

    From this article about a study done on recovery times from this surgery.
    ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9978988/
    You can see that of the 9 pitchers that were part of this study, 14 months was the shortest time frame to return to sport, with 19 months being the norm, and as long as 25 months. So to expect Woodruff back in 2024 is not in line with historical data. The start of 2025 is possible, but so is missing all of 2024 and 2025.

    1
    Reply
  49. Stormintazz

    2 years ago

    This appears to be like the Jimmy Nelson injury. He was never the same pitcher. Brewers small market can’t run the risk of that happening.

    Reply
  50. sfjackcoke

    2 years ago

    No brainer for MIL to non tender him, the math simply does not work for them.

    The Giants are my biased pick with one caveat, are they ok with his medicals. Not saying this is Correa 2.0 but rather their medical staff has a rehab plan for him. The Giants have a great track record of dealing with pitchers w/injury history of getting/keeping them healthy + quality on field performance. Rodon, Wood, Cobb, DeSclafani to a lesser extent all recent examples, even this season with Sean Manea. That plus lack of long term payroll commitments makes this is a logical fit.

    SFG have their complex in AZ just like MIL. That said if the SFG were that confident about their ability to rehab Woodruff, offer a longer term deal.

    In reality other pitchers needing a pillow contract most certainly should have their eyes on SF for the very same reason Woodruff is a match. Giolito, Servino, Mahle just to name a couple,

    I also peg them as the team with big over pay on Yoshinobu Yamamoto. I think no team going into this off-season is more inclined to overpay than SF.

    1
    Reply

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