The Dodgers announced Tuesday that top pitching prospect River Ryan will undergo Tommy John surgery. He’ll miss the remainder of the 2024 season and quite possibly all of the 2025 campaign while recovering. Ryan, who posted a 1.33 ERA through his first four big league starts, hit the injured list over the weekend after suffering a UCL sprain in his most recent start.
Ryan’s 2024 season was already known to be over, but the Tommy John procedure marks a worst-case scenario in the wake of his UCL injury. An internal brace procedure might’ve come with a shorter timeline for recovery, but he’ll require a full ligament replacement, which tends to shelve pitchers for upwards of 14 months. Every rehab process is different, and there’s always a chance Ryan might heal a bit faster than the standard pitcher, but a 12-month recovery is typically an absolute minimum for pitchers who require Tommy John surgery.
The 25-year-old Ryan was an 11th-round pick by the Padres in 2021. He went to the Dodgers in a trade that now looks like a heist, sending first baseman/outfielder Matt Beaty back to San Diego. (Beaty played in 20 games with the Padres and hit .093/.170/.163 before being cut loose.) Ryan hadn’t even made his professional debut at the time and had signed for a $100K bonus, so he was hardly a high-end prospect. Ryan simply getting to the majors would’ve been a player development success story for Los Angeles, but he instead ascended to the point where he’s regarded as one of the top pitching prospects in the sport. Ryan climbed as high as No. 21 overall on FanGraphs’ top-100 prospect rankings and sits 99th on MLB.com’s top-100 list at the moment.
The reasoning behind that rise isn’t especially difficult to see. Ryan spent the majority of the 2023 season in Double-A and pitched to a tidy 3.33 ERA in 97 1/3 frames before being bumped to Triple-A late in the year. He was hit hard in those two starts but returned to Triple-A this year and carved up opponents with a 2.76 ERA, 28.8% strikeout rate and 9.1% walk rate in five starts. He was limited in the minors this season due to a shoulder injury, but Ryan graduated to the majors with a 3.22 ERA, 28.5% strikeout rate and 10% walk rate in parts of three professional seasons since being traded to the Dodgers organization.
Ryan becomes the latest Dodgers hurler to land on the injured list in what’s been a trying season for their rotation depth. Los Angeles entered the year with Clayton Kershaw on the injured list and knowing that Tony Gonsolin would miss most/all of the season recovering from last summer’s Tommy John surgery. They’ve since seen Emmet Sheehan (Tommy John surgery) and Dustin May (esophageal surgery) fall to season-ending surgeries, while Yoshinobu Yamamoto (strained rotator cuff) and Walker Buehler (hip and elbow) land on the shelf with long-term injury troubles of their own. Prospects Nick Frasso (shoulder surgery) and Kyle Hurt (Tommy John surgery) are on the minor league injured list and done for the year as well. Last year’s breakout right-hander, Bobby Miller, has made just seven MLB starts and been ineffective both with the Dodgers and with Triple-A while navigating a shoulder injury of his own.
With that laundry list of injuries, the Dodgers currently have a rotation that includes Kershaw, Tyler Glasnow, Gavin Stone and deadline pickup Jack Flaherty. Buehler is expected to return from the injured list later this week, but he’s been bludgeoned for a 5.84 ERA in eight big league starts and has a 5.01 mark in another eight Triple-A starts this season — his first year back from 2022 Tommy John surgery. He offered a glimmer of hope in his most recent rehab start, tossing 5 1/3 innings and holding the Rangers’ Triple-A club to one run on one hit and three walks with five punchouts.
Because Ryan’s injury occurred while pitching at the big league level, he’s on the MLB injured list and will spend his 2025 rehab on the big league injured list as well. He’ll earn major league pay and service time while recovering from the injury. That’ll give him at least a full year of service while he recovers, putting him on track for arbitration in the 2027-28 offseason and free agency following the 2030 season. Of course, future optional assignments could change one or both of those trajectories, and for now the immediate focus will simply shift to the long process of getting the talented young righty back to full strength with an eye toward a late-2025 or early-2026 return.
Scratch one Dodger.
Maybe, while this was a heist from the Dodgers standpoint…
What does this say about the Padres farm, when an 11th round pick ascends to one of the top prospects in baseball and then delivers early on.
Preller flipped him because he knew there was the possibility of replacing him
Teams actively trade with the Padres because they work hard on building one of MLBs top farm systems.
Prellers work speaks for itself.
Don’t view the Ryan for Beatty as ‘the one who got away’ but more accurately ‘the one of a very deep system’.
See a Matt Brash as well.
Preller knows how to draft, see Merrill.
The Padres make a wonderful trade partner.
Before you pat Preller’s back too much. Notice that Ryan was drafted as a two way player but the Padres had him as a position player only and not a pitcher in his first and only rookie league season. Wasn’t until he got traded to the Dodgers that they designated him to be a pitcher only. Perhaps he could have also been successful as a position player only but the Dodgers are the ones who got him through the system as a pitcher only. I think most of the credit goes to individual and Dodgers, Preller a distant third.
Sure, the Dodgers are great at developing talent BUT the Padres are great at DRAFTING talent.
Yes the Dodgers draft talent too, there is no denying that.
Yet, the amount of talent the Padres draft and trade that is in the least very serviceable talent that makes and contributes to MLB clubs is a good percentage.
Furthermore, whether drafted or not by the Padres, players that come to the Padres are often utilized in trades and make a substantial impact for other clubs, see Clase for the Guardians as well as Naylor.
See Brash and Munoz for the Mariners.
I could go on Preller knows how to acquire talent, through minor league and major league trades, drafting or waiver claims see Brad Hand.
Also, see Profar.
Sometimes you win a trade and sometimes you lose one but the one constant is Preller has infused life and excitement into Padres baseball.
I don’t disagree that the Padres have drafted well under Preller. He has been ultra aggressive but don’t think that ultimately in the longer run that is going to pay off. In the short-run, combined with much higher spending it has paid off in that the Padres are a more competitive team vs history. But you can’t discount the increased spending. We will see on how all the trades pan out. I’m sure many will be fine or good trades as most prospects fail to meet expectations but I’m sure there will be a fair share of bad trades like this one. I’d be more concerned about the bad long-term deals given out by Preller. Are the Padres spending beyond their means? Probably, but we’ll see.
I give the credit to Logan White, he is the guy at helm of scouting and player personnel in SD. If anything Preller has been nothing short of a disaster, in addition to Munoz, Brash, and Clase, he has also traded away David Bednar, Brent Rooker, and the boat of prospects in the Juan Soto deal. Only going to be a matter of time before the prospects off this year like Dylan Lesko, Robby Snelling and others come back to haunt the Friars. This team could have been at the top of the NL if he had just stayed the course with development but no he chased stars and crashed and burned.
Definitely give credit to White!
If they drafted like that though it bodes well for future drafts.
Also, there are only so many spots on a roster.
Towingagain, in a recent podcast, Tom Tango said that since 2001 the Padres had the highest percentage of draft picks and international signees that made it to MLB. They also had the 4th lowest percentage that made it to MLB with the team that signed them originally. Double edged sword?
@Outinleftfield. That’s a staggering statistic!
I guess with the promotion of Merrill, it signals the club is headed in the right direction.
The 90s Braves really knew how to develop home grown stars.
Supplement a club with your talent and a mix of vets and you can win a WS at some point.
Bednar was for Musgrove. I’ll take 460 innings of 3 ERA SP over 180 innings of 2 ERA RP any day (and Bednar is looking incredibly lost right now). Rooker and Clase passed through multiple organizations before establishing themselves. The Nola trade was terrible, for sure (Preller has a number of stinkers). It seems some fans are appalled at the thought of trading value for value, but no one wins every trade. Given that the vast majority of prospects are inherently risky values even to make the majors, it’s smart to leverage future value for present, established value at the ML level.
Also, there can be no telling what a swap looks like for many years. Remember at the Clevinger trade? It was forever written off as a loss, but if Waldron pitches to a 3/4 the next five seasons, it’s nearly even valued between him and Naylor.
Before the Padres Logan White was with the Dodgers when they drafted Kershaw, Kemp, Loney and Russell Martin.
I’m totally bummed! Ryan mentioned the pitch clock. MLB needs to seriously look into doing away with the pitch clock or significantly adding time to it! The rash of TJs just keeps rising at an alarming rate!
Yea when I heard that comment I thought it was alarming as well. But when you think about it has Ryan ever not pitched professionally without a pitch clock?
People keep forgetting that MLB purchased Rawlings years ago, and started monkeying around with the baseball. Some balls go out of the park easily. Other balls don’t go out easily. You will probably find at least part of the reason why ALL the pitchers seem to get hurt. It will also explain why certain “star” players can always seem to approach 60 home runs. A little easier to get to 60 when MLB makes sure you always are hitting the balls that easily fly out of the part. Greed is real people. These guys will change anything in the game if they think it will produce more revenue.
I heard some of the balls are subjected to secret voodoo incantations and others are not. So unfair! They will stop at nothing.
Brilliant point Barry. There’s probably much more to the juiced/dead balls than people realize. Despite what trolls like Blueskies want everyone to believe. Changing the balls from year to year, game to game (which have been proven by scientific evidence) messes with the integrity of the game and most likely has influenced arm injuries in one way or another.
It can’t be easy for pitchers to have to get used to new balls.
No I am just saying the conspiracy goes deeper than you can imagine.
All you have to do, is watch who MLB Network is promoting, to predict whether they get these favorable “Goldilocks
…baseballs to swing at. Judge in ’22, Ohtani, Soto and Judge this year. Extremely fishy.
Nothings telling them to try throwing 100mph every pitch.
It’s not the pitch clock. Doctors have been saying for years now the amount of torque being exerted on these pitchers arms with how hard they throw has consequences. When pitchers threw 92 mph fastballs and 79 mph curves they weren’t having the number of injuries they do now. The UCL is not a muscle. It is not something you can go to the gym and strengthen a bunch. Repeated force will eventually cause it to break. This is the reality. Whether they have 15 seconds between each pitch or 90 seconds this will stay the reality.
I agree that in my opinion it’s mostly how hard pitchers throw these days. Back in the days the focus was pitching (command, movement and velocity probably the third factor). These days way too much focus on velocity. I get it, higher velocity is harder to hit for the most part. But I wouldn’t discount the strain of pitch clock. There is more strain on pitchers repeating same motion on a much faster pace. There is recovery in between pitches. Same for in between innings. Long innings certainly puts more strain and same for quicker repetitions due to pitch clock..
It drives me crazy people act like this is the norm and like it’s impossible to pitch any way other than max effort. I remember growing up and you would watch the game and listen to pitchers talk about pitching and it was common sense you don’t throw max effort each pitch. You save it for that 2-2 or 3-2 count that really matters. If teams want to pay hundreds of millions for a pitcher that throws 3 starts before being out for the season that’s on them. I’d rather have 23 starts from a guy throwing 94 getting 4-6 strikeouts a game than the guy who throws 99 and gets 7-9 strikeouts but it’s a coin flip if he will even be healthy for the playoffs.
Recovery time in between pitches? Please, that’s horrible, you never pitched. Stamina yes, recovery between pitches, no. Where did you come up with that?
Pitching coach comes out so the pitcher catches his breath or to calm him down.
Can you imagine a pitching coach coming out so the pitchers arm can recover? That’s actually a great joke. I’m going to use that. Thanks.
Gee, we just had an MLB pitcher say that he thinks pitch clock is a factor but you disagree. Who should we believe?
You believe me cause I talk with Brent Strom almost daily about the Roger Beshens Football Slider. There’s no way the pitch clock is causing any injuries, that’s ludacrice.
Facts need to be discussed here.
For starters any pitch gripped off center with a bad tilt is going to be more stressful than a fastball.
Any study since 2018 when the Roger Beshens Football SLider came out and changed the MLB landscape will show that Football Slider has been morphed to a cutter, that morphed cutter has a bad tilt. 2018 was the 1st yr in MLB more K’s than hits happened. Snell, Cole couldn’t even avg over a K an IP going into 2018. That’s when Glasnow, Taillon, Flaherty..and over 50 more learned it and it kept evolving to other pitchers and teams.
Pitchers aren’t getting hurt on the fastball but that pitch with the bad tilt. The cutter is the problem and guys gripping the or tilting the RB Football Slider wrong.
Since the pitch clock was introduced TJ surgeries actually slightly dropped. There is zero evidence anyone can point to about it causing problems.
How hard is it for MLB to take the current pitching injuries ask the pitcher how he threw his pitches, when he started those pitches, then get AI involved and it will be clear it’s the Cutter which has an off center grip, bad tilt. The Roger Beshens Football Slider, (Sweeper, gyro) is also thrown with a bad grip or tilt causing issues.
Real question: If today’s pitch clock were the issue then why did pitchers from the past who took almost no time between pitches and threw 150+ per game not get injured at the rate they are now?
All I can surmise is that it’s the training to throw as hard as possible from a young age, and the belief that if their pitch count is limited it will offset any arm damage from strain of the velocity. Apparently that strategy ain’t working.
Actually, they were getting injured just as much. Their careers were just over and they didn’t go on an extended stay on the IL and stay in our news, plus we didn’t have a 24/7/365 news cycle about baseball. We didn’t notice as much because we didn’t hear their name anymore.
That being said, more velocity = more injuries. to get more velocity pitchers are using a technique called an inverted W that places undue stress on the elbow because of the angle of the forearm in relation to the shoulders and hands when the plant foot hits the ground during their motion. It is being taught to younger and younger players.
You are absolutely right about the UCL not being a muscle so it cannot be strengthened by exercise. So when you add to that the fact that young players are throwing more and more innings earlier and earlier in their lives. My grandson plays baseball literally year round. Between high school and travel ball he pitched in 32 games so far in 2024 and his baseball is far from over this year.. He is 15. He is the norm for talented young players today and he has been doing this since he was 11 and in Little League.
Put those things together and it’s no wonder we are seeing an epidemic of injuries in baseball.
I believe you’ve supplied evidence to disprove your own theory. You are right to point out that before the revolution in sports medicine a lot of injuries simply ended a player’s career. Today, they can receive all sorts of surgeries and treatments and continue playing. So in reality it’s really difficult to support an argument that players are hurt more often now than they were a couple of generations ago. Short of having any real statistics, claiming injuries are more common now really comes down to recency bias.
You never pitched, every seasoned pitcher knows when you throw a baseball off center with a bad tilt that’s going to cause the most stress.
Pitchers aren’t getting hurt throwing fastballs that’s the easiest pitch on the arm cause there’s more pronation than the other pitches other than a screwball which is the easiest on the arm.
@BlueSkies_LA actually there was a great statistical study done by a writer Mark Graban you can find by googling his name and Tommy John Surgery increase. He studied the data of surgeries between 2000 and 2024. The average number of TJ surgeries more than doubled starting in 2012. You know why 2012? That is around the time velocity truly spiked and the average fastball was about 2 mph faster in 2023 than it was in 2012. Seeing the graph it’s a clear spike up.
It’s not just the majors but the minors since about the same time TJ surgeries have gone by way up. Doctors and surgeons have noted it too. It’s even been long enough for doctors to write about how the way you throw ages 14-19 is going to end up hurting you by the time you are 21, 22, 23, etc. The amount of documented evidence that players are throwing too much and too hard is overwhelming. No single factor has as significant an impact as velocity has.
Any pitcher will tell you an off center grip and bad tilt is more dangerous than throwing a fastball. The Cutter has a bad tilt just like the Traditional slider which is like today’s cutter.
Not true. There is this thing called science and it shows clearly when the most stress is placed on the elbow. Its not the slider. Its the 4 seam fastball and the more velocity its thrown with, the greater the stress. Add in the added stress from the inverted W technique, and its a killer for elbows. Blue, in the 60;s and 70’s a shoulder injury was career ending. Today there are surgeries for it. The number of shoulder injuries has stayed steady over the decades. The number of elbow injuries, they call some forearm and some bicep but all are elbow, have become an epidemic.
Any pitcher, and you Mr Sweeper for a brain, would be wrong.
And here we have two, completely confident and totally contradictory opinions about what does or does not cause pitching injuries. My observation from this is, nobody really knows, and at best we have competing theories. If the causes were known, someone would already be doing something to address the problem, because injuries always cost money and they often end careers.
MLB can’t even admit the Sweeper and Gyro is the Roger Beshens Football Slider. Yet in a study said the Sweeper is one of the problems for arms.
Brent Strom recently invited Roger Beshens into the Dbacks clubhouse to show him techniques about his football slider.
There is a problem area and there’s also a huge problem pitchers morphing that Roger Beshens Football Slider to be a cutter so it can be thrown harder. Brent Strom is a huge influence hope after the season he comes forward and uses his influence to elevate everyone’s awareness.
I’m with you Terry B.
Artificially changing the flow and rhythm of the game is taxing on a pitcher’s arm. Period. This includes trying to speed up the game by having pitchers on a pitch clock.
Additionally, in the name of speeding up the game an average of another 23 minutes, this rule has taken away a beautiful part of the game. IE the pitch by pitch head game between a pitcher and batter. I miss guys like Greinke.
If you think throwing a baseball every 15-20 seconds for an inning at a time then plenty of rest causes an injury, you never pitched or took pitching seriously.
Nobody want’s to see a hitter step out of the box on purpose to disrupt the flow of the game. It’s like a commercial, Nobody wants a commercial break every hitter.
MLB is a business, play the game.
Agree to disagree on this one Pettango. MLB is a sport, not a business. I follow it to be entertained. In otherwords, to get away from the responsibilities I have at home and work.
Pitch clock is turning pitchers in to throwers. Not giving a PITCHER and hitter the opportunity to play some cat and mouse in between pitches is sterilizing the game. Enough.
And young Mr. Ryan speculates it caused him injury. Reading between the lines here, I say he knows it caused him injury. These players are in a union. They have union bosses. They have their marching orders. The union supports this rule, so get in line and keep your mouth shut. Young Mr Ryan probably somewhat nievly spoke out of place.
Yeah Jeff, that last part is just not true. The PA has always been against the pitch clock and has spoken out many times about concerns regarding injuries due to the clock. The League office instituted the pitch clock against the PAs wishes.
Even beyond that, why would the players union be stifling its members voices speaking about their own injuries? That would go against one of the main purposes of the union: to protect it’s members.
Max Scherzer has held a leadership position in the PA and has spoken out against the pitch clock many times. There are no “marching orders” against the clock.
Is there actual data that shows pitchers today are getting serious career-threatening injuries at the same rate as pitchers from the ’60s-’80s did? I sure don’t remember pitchers being shut down at this rate, and I didn’t need a 24-hour news cycle to know who was getting hurt, so it’s not perception based on that.
Squeeze32; thanks for the get back. I thought the PA was okay with it but balked about the move from 20 to 18 seconds? I will revisit these stories.
And this continued discussion only proves my point. Nobody really knows for certain if pitching injuries have increased, and even if they have, what the root cause might be. All we have in the end is competing theories and the different sides advocating for what they believe is better for their interests. None of this has much if anything to do with medicine. Going back to my point, if the cause of injuries was as clear as some seem to believe, something would be done to address it because injuries are very costly to both teams and players. Try responding to that point.
@TellItGoodbye there’s been data that shows a spike in TJ surgeries since 2012 when velocity started to take a big jump too.
But when you actually read Mark Graban’s analysis, his conclusions are much closer to mine than yours.
leanblog.org/2024/04/theres-no-special-cause-of-co…
The takeaway can be summarized as: don’t try to read too much into small data sets, and if the problem and its source was so clear the teams and players would addressing the root causes with medical and training interventions. IOW, nobody really knows. Which is exactly what I’ve been saying.
Not sure what you are saying isn’t true. The data doesn’t support your argument. I was told to read the article by Mark Graban that supposedly proved that this injury was epidemic, but when you actually read it you find this isn’t his conclusion at all. Maybe you should read it too. Linked elsewhere.
Whew! Thank goodness for the mute button. Sweeper brain is gone.
CYJ
“MLB is a sport, not a business”
Wrong
MLB is a business
Baseball is a sport
Are there actually more TJS now than there were two years ago? Even if there have been, I think we need to wait for at least 5 years with the pitch clock to be able to draw any significant conclusions.
Drafted by Preller, pitching for doyers, he had no chance to avoid the knife.
I was at the game and the vibe was not good. So sorry to hear this news.
These elbow and forearm injuries to young pitchers represent a significant threat to the game. This is industry wide impacting players in all organizations. The issue needs to be addressed. it is now exceedingly rare to see veteran pitchers (Nola, Kershaw) who have survived this plague into their 30s, without being impacted. They need to be studied as well as the young men who are being hit hard as a result of what’s going on throughout baseball ( little league through the major leagues)
All the best to River and all the pitchers trying to overcome these injuries.
In the old days pitchers pitched and most got burned out in the minors and only the best survived and made it to the majors. Today, $ decides who makes it and very few are proven reliable before promoted. I’m not advocating burning pitchers out but that was the sad reality and why many are not able to survive today.
In “ the old days”, quite a few variables were different.
One difference is that there was no Driveline and other teaching academies/pitching gurus teaching young pitchers to maximize spin rate and velocity. It may be a complete coincidence; but, the increases in those two metrics seem to be directly related to this epidemic.
These teams really are being stupid and short sighted. They are paying pitchers now $200-300 million to be injured more than ever and pitch fewer innings than ever. It is such a waste. It would be better if players like Roy Halladay, Greg Maddux, Cole Hamels, Clayton Kershaw, etc were the types rewarded and sought after instead of the guy who throws 100 mph.
Clayton topped out last night at 91. 6 Ks in 5.66 innings. Not sure what his swing and miss metrics were; but, he was very effective against a first place team in their park.
Just a guess, but as you suggest, I think there is something demonstrably different that the pitchers you identify were doing than what Driveline and other “spin rate” experts are teaching. Guys aren’t going to Driveline to maximize their health.
Would seem like Driveline and similar outfits could measure elbow/shoulder stress in addition to mechanical efficiency, and recommend changes constrained by the physical limits of human ligaments plus a margin of safety. But would anyone buy those recommendations over max effort all the time?
Weighted balls, not enough rest after throwing are obvious.
When Ryan, Seaver, Guidry…. pitched they threw complete games over 140 pitches easy most over 150, they didn’t touch a ball until the 3rd day. Every pitcher from the 1980’s knows how the arm feels after throwing 175 pitches. It’s dead but it’s a good sore, the next day no way throwing yet the 3rd day relief if needed and the 4th and 5 th day the arm is very strong. The arm was already built up after sprint training. No need for an oblique or Lat injuries, that’s NUTS. That lactic acid BS is a joke. No pitcher ever got hurt resting their arm! LOL
So in the old days baseball wasn’t about money? Interesting theory. I wonder, what was it about back then? Peanuts? Cracker Jack?
Are you crazy do some research, most had to get jobs in the off season. How old are you 15?
The owners weren’t getting jobs in the offseason
MLB did a study and did nothing and will continue to do so.
Anyone that ever pitches knows when you grip a ball off center with a bad tilt and throw it it’s much more stressful on the arm.
Tommy John Curse. Tommy was in attendance as Ryan hurt himself. So sad to see him go down. Looked really good
The vibe?
This trade the padres made is baffling to say the least. So bad
We knew it at the time too, total flustercluck trade.
Honestly, most of Prellers trades “look bad” but the returns are short lived.
Ty France
Chris Paddack
River Ryan*
Cal Qunatril
Eric Lauer
Luis Urias
Matt Brash*
Luis Patino
Hes traded plenty of MLBers but they’ve only been productive 4 or less years before they flame out. Been a few long term misses – Turner, Fried, Clase (Munoz and Abrams are approaching becoming long term misses) come to mind but most guys he traded away over the years the mlb production was short lived.
Add Rooker to that list. He gave him away basically. Preller is a disaster.
He got rooker for nothing. Twins Royals Padres couldnt get him to figure it out. Good on the As for helping him unlock his potential but hardly a miss by preller after 2 years of quality production.
SD is just bad at trading in general
Max Fried
Emmanuel Clause
Ozzie Smith
Trea Turner
Both Alomars
Eli Manning
2 things Zerbie-
1. That seems like the “worst-of-the-worst” and could probably be countered with Tatis, Trevor Hoffman, Kevin Brown, Steve Finley, Ken Caminiti and Philip Rivers/Shawne Merriman!
2. Doesn’t every Franchise and/or City have a “worst-of-the-worst” history? How bad do other franchises/cities look? Just curious what other histories look worse!
Aloha
Add in Naylor 🙁
Manfred Surgery
Yes, it’s that thing where Rob Manfred evolves/ruins a whole sport , everyone makes millions and you pay $12 for a Bud Light.
Yeah the last time I was at the ballpark some guy dragged me out of my seat and made me buy a Bud Light. I don’t think it was Manfred himself but I didn’t like it anyway. Where do we complain? I mean, other than here.
Complaint Department is right here, young ‘un…
*points to grenade with a #1 ticket tied to the pin
We’re coming to get you guys, Bluey! I mean, I hope!! Haha get and stay healthy for the Postseason stuff.
You’re the first person to call me young’un for around a half century but I will try to deal with it.
Truly a bad beer. It could have been worse. You could have been at Wrigley and they made you buy an Old Style,
Some good beers at Dodger Stadium. Ballast Point. Stone. Coronado Brewing. Ironically, the best beers sold in Dodger Stadium are brewed in San Diego.
Do try the Arrogant B*****d Ale the next time you are there for a game. Great beer from Stone.
Blueskeedo didn’t know years ago many ML players had to get another job in the off season. He’s a young’un.
Um, what?
“Yeah the last time I was at the ballpark some guy dragged me out of my seat and made me buy a Bud Light.”
Dodgers need to ditch Mark Prior and his inverted W pitching mechanics–absolutely destroys arms.
Any off center pitch with a bad tilt also known as a traditional slider or cutter is BAD for the arm.
Not true. It all depends on the mechanics. If you have solid mechanics and throw your slider/cutter like a football there is no more strain on your arm than a fastball
Guys that throw the cutter which is harder than the football slider can’t throw it with the 90 degree tilt and that’s where the injuries happen. The tilt is different.
Great mechanics can’t save an arm from a bad tilt.
We are talking two different things. You can throw a slider/cutter with the same mechanics and both like a football. But yes, you can throw them differently that requires rotation in the wrist, and yes that is bad for your arm and what I define as bad mechanics.
There is no rotation of the wrist for the football slider, it’s stiff wrist. If you throw the cutter with anything other than a stiff wrist that would slow the cutter up.
The cutter is thrown harder than the football slider cause the TILT is altered and that TILT is more vulnerable to injury than the 90 degree tilt.
JP France is a good example, I saw his bad cutter tilt months ago. It looks close to the football slider but that tilt isn’t 90 degrees. In order to throw it harder they have to get off the 90 degree tilt.
Yes, I know there is no rotation on the football slider. That’s why there is no more strain than a fastball. I threw my cutter and slider both the football fashion as that’s how I was taught by a former MLB pitcher. The other way to throw a cutter I was taught doesn’t require tilt either, but rather pressure you align your fingers on the ball and the pressure asserted. There is no “tilt” on a cutter.
Maybe the Dodgers need to spend a bit of their trillion dollars on figuring out why their pitchers are developing serious arm injuries at a higher rate than anyone else.
The Dodgers just don’t care. They are in the “We will just stack so much depth that they can blow out their elbows at 3 times the MLB average and we will be ok” mode. They can because they are making 3 times in revenue what the CBT threshold is currently.
Maybe organizations need to start trying to replicate pitchers like Greg Maddux as opposed to trying to have a million Nolan Ryan’s. Might save a bunch of arms and money.
Dude, you are so right. I believe that’s the biggest culprit behind all these arm injuries. I mean, look, I get it – it’s unnatural for a human arm to throw a baseball repeatedly. However, when you go max effort every time you’re really tempting fate.
There is no such thing as pitchers like Greg Maddux. There is only one Greg Maddux.
Charlie Liebrandt? Verne Ruhle?
Mike Maddux is just like Greg!
Didn’t Nolan Ryan pitch effectively until he was 46?
Devastating news for Dodger fans
Is it though?
I thought the River runs deep, but I’m this case it has dried up. It’s really become such an epidemic in mlb Its like you can pretty much guarantee any pitcher is going to need some kind of surgery eventually. I mean, how can you sign these guys to long term contracts when you know this? Yet if you don’t you can’t win. Damned if you do…
Sucks for him. Baseball has got figure out why the guys are blowing out elbows.
I’m sure they’d like to know even more than we do. It’s strangely funny to hear fans claim they have a better handle on this than the teams with their sports medicine staffs and their money on the line.
The Dodgers’ medical staff is looking more and more like the Angels’ medical staff every day…
Without getting grief from Roberts and Prior fans, I have what I think is a legitimate question. The Dodgers have lost nine pitchers to injury and surgery in the last two plus years. Nine major league pitchers. I wonder if anyone has compiled stats on what the loss average of the other 29 teams ? Does anyone know?
According to a spreadsheet compiled by MLB Player Analysis and available on Google, incuding all MLB and minor league and college players (under MLB contract) TJ surgeries for in 2024 and 2023 total:
LAD 7 (including River Ryan)
CLE 10
NYM 9
DET 11
COL 7
CWS, PIT, NYY TEX, BAL each with 6
OAK, MIA. MIL, BOS, SEA each with 5
and no team has gone untouched.
So while we are firing Mark Prior, there are a raft of other coaches who need the ax. In other words, it is an industry wide problem, not limited to Mr. Prior.
I haven’t seen any stats on this but it’s worth mentioning that only some of these injuries are the dreaded UCL. Dustin May tore his esophagus and I don’t imagine you need to be a Roberts or Prior fan to say that wasn’t down to them.
Dustin May had UCL before his esophagus ripped.
As I am well aware. The point being, if you are going to count him among the injured pitchers today, you should not do it for the UCL.
well May was still rehabbing his UCL surgery when he suffered the esophagus tear. but as you like it… just one incidence in a large number. I was merely counting the TJ procedures.
How far back are you going, then? If you’re going to count everyone who had TJ but is still on the IL for any reason then the number is going to be far larger than if, say, you counted the number of TJ procedures performed in any given year.
to begin with I counted only 2023-2024. (above) then I took the team totals back to 2019. (below) the stats are available all the way back to TJ himself. Someone else can calculate all that.
the counts are only the number of TJ procedures in a given year.
Okay, fair enough! But as I pointed out elsewhere, we don’t actually know how many pitchers blew out their UCLs in previous generations because without any treatment for it their careers simply ended.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gQujXQQGOVNaiuwSN6…
there are variations in accuracy since some teams do not report all incidents of TJ surgery and record keeping has probably been spotty at best, but that same spreadsheet lists these total TJ surgeries for each of the past 6 years: 2019: 136
2020: 81 (covid)
2021: 163
2022: 111
2023: 99
2024 (so far) 61
Will be interesting to see if Clayton Chokeshaw is really rejected by the Hall of Fame like so many writers and fans in general are saying. Wouldn’t be upset about it, given how much he has failed the Dodgers when it has counted. Hopefully he’s off the team this season or at the end of this season at the latest.
Enough is enough.
Clayton Kershaw has HOF credentials now, today, without throwing another pitch. It’s about a player’s body of work across their career, not only how many “big” games he’s won or lost. By your measure there are several HOFers that wouldn’t be there. How many WS did Ernie Banks win? Juan Marichal? Other great players and pitchers who toiled with bad teams while putting up impressive numbers? While his postseason record isn’t the best – far from it – his complete body of work punches his ticket. First ballot.
Dodgers32: don’t confuse a troll with facts.
I am a Giants fan who revels any time the Dodgers getting knocked out of the playoffs early, and I’ll throw a fit if Kershaw isn’t a first round HoF’er. Absolutely ridiculous career and longevity, and the Dodgers are a perennial contender in part due to his contributions.
And they are perennial chokers because of Chokeshaw when it actually matters- that’s why the 36 year World Series drought.
Enough is enough, get rid of him already.
The 2020 World Series counts. Just accept it!
Until MLB comes out and describes the Grip, Tilt and Wrist action of the Sweeper there will be injuries by the Sh$tload.
MLB knows since 2018 it’s the Roger Beshens Football SLider.
Tom Tango/Baseball Savant in Nov 2018 even messaged Roger Beshens with “Lets call it Football Slider for now”
Roger Beshens was in the Dbacks Clubhouse in May 2024 showing Brent Strom every technique about his football slider. It’s going to take a respected name like Brent Strom to expose this nonsense MLB dug for itself.
“40% of the pitches I throw are high stress breaking balls (per Baseball Savant) the most stressful of which is a 90 mph on average slider thrown 23% of the time. Let me blame the pitch clock when I get hurt instead of my inability to successfully throw about 70% fastballs.” -River Ryan
If the Grip, TILT or wrist action isn’t right on that Roger Beshens Football Slider that Glasnow, Flaherty, Treinen and others throw it’s the meat wagon.
If Ryan morphed that football slider into a cutter to throw it harder,that’s the bad tilt that’s getting guys injured. Even just messing around with that in practice could F the arm. Roger Beshens just showed Brent Strom his football slider in the dbacks clubhouse, contact Roger Beshens. He threw over 15000 football sliders, Strommy wanted to know a lot how to shape it. Arm angle dictates the break but many don’t know how to shape it.
See ya in ’26, Riv….
All it took was 4 games in MLB for River to run through it…
I feel like the Dodgers suffer from one or more pitchers with TJS each year…
I’ve heard of pitchers recovering from TJS at a minimum of 11 months. Meanwhile, 12 months is closer to average than 14 months is.
Just replace River Ryan with Ocean Bob.
Way too many innings getting to the majors and most managed by “coaches” that haven’t been trained. Starts with school ball, then little league, then travel ball, all before high school and then the innings continue to pile on until college pre the draft. Have to wonder when the last time be was allowed to not touch a ball for 3 or 4 months. Arms need rest.
I have just pulled a 98 River Ryan card in mlb the show lol
what a shame….again and again. you’d think the mlb might be a little more concerned about the trend and look into a little harder.
No worries. Walker Buehler is back. He should be good for 3 innings and 4 earned runs per game.