The Cardinals are set to hold a press conference early next week, and it’s already been reported that there will be some notable organizational changes announced at that time. Jeff Jones of the Belleville News-Democrat suggested as much earlier this week, and USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reported a couple weeks back that former Red Sox chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom, hired as an adviser last winter, could see his role expand. That’ll indeed be the case, and Katie Woo of The Athletic now further details that Bloom will be tasked with hiring a new director of player development and overhauling that department.
It’s not fully clear what title Bloom will hold, but Woo spoke with multiple Cardinals staffers about the manner in which their player development system — once the gold standard in the sport — has become antiquated and been neglected over time. Cardinals employees who spoke to Woo for a simultaneously fascinating and damning overview of the organization suggest the club is lacking in coordinators, minor league coaches, technology and other resources, leaving players unprepared to make the jump to the majors.
That’s created a vicious cycle, forcing president of baseball operations John Mozeliak to spend more in free agency to offset the lack of homegrown contributors. In doing so, he’s increasingly had to allocate his baseball operations budget to the big league roster at the expense of player development. It’s become a self-fulfilling prophecy in many ways. Readers (especially Cardinals fans) are encouraged to check out Woo’s piece in full for an exhaustive breakdown of how the Cardinals’ once unparalleled development practices have faltered and failed to position touted prospects like Jordan Walker, Nolan Gorman, Matthew Liberatore, Dylan Carlson and others for big league success.
From an even bigger-picture standpoint, the matter of Mozeliak’s future with the club has also been thrust into the spotlight. He’s signed through 2025 and has suggested previously that he’s likely to step down after that contract. MLB.com’s John Denton reports that it’s at least possible Mozeliak steps aside or transitions to a different role sooner than the end of his contract, however. Changes on the coaching front are expected too, as Jones reported earlier this week. Woo writes that manager Oli Marmol is expected to remain in place but points out that hitting coaches Turner Ward and Brandon Allen, game-planning coach Packy Elkins, first base coach Stubby Clapp and assistant pitching coach Julio Rangel are all signed only through the current season.
The full scope of the looming changes likely won’t be ascertainable until the Cardinals host their press conference Monday. What’s increasingly clear is that ownership and the majority of the baseball operations and player development staff recognize that changes are needed. Whether that results in a rebuilding effort of any magnitude isn’t yet clear. Woo reports that the Cardinals do not intend to go into a tanking-style rebuild but also plan to shift more focus on building up the player development staff and strengthening the minor league system.
Marmol, for his part, isn’t speaking like a manager who expects a pronounced step back. The recent focus on getting to 82 wins to avoid the first back-to-back losing seasons the Cardinals have endured in six decades hasn’t sat well with him, he tells Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. “It’s not a goal of mine when I go into a season to only finish above .500, if I’m being quite honest,” says Marmol. “I understand not wanting to have back-to-back losing seasons. We have aspirations for a lot more than that, and we have to build toward it, bottom line.”
Goold joins the rest of the Cards beat in reporting that large-scale changes are indeed expected Monday at a press conference where the team’s “next direction” will be among the topics. The Cardinals face several pivotal decisions, many of them on aging veterans. They hold $12MM club options over starters Kyle Gibson and Lance Lynn — both coming with a $1MM buyout. Paul Goldschmidt is a free agent, though there’s been talk of a potential reunion. Veteran reliever Andrew Kittredge is also a free agent, and the Cards have some interest in re-signing him. The 2025 season is closer Ryan Helsley’s final year of club control. Prospects like Walker and Gorman aren’t necessarily at a crossroads but have also failed to cement themselves in the team’s plans. Both were optioned to the minors this season, though both have at least one option year remaining beyond the current season (two, in Gorman’s case).
Monday’s press conference should shed light on how some of those vital organizational decisions will play out. The broad takeaway, for now, is that simply maintaining the status quo no longer feels tenable.
Bart Harley Jarvis
I believe Bloom’s first big move is defenestrating Mozeliak.
gojira15
If the window is too high, that’s murder.
Bart Harley Jarvis
With your point being?
gojira15
I guess my point was to state the obvious.
gojira15
No kidding about maintaining status quo. This org has clearly been stuck in the middle with no direction for years now. And that’s the worst place to be.
steven st croix
Bloom can hire Chris Correa
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
lol
Old York
Told you so: mlbtraderumors.com/2024/09/cardinals-rumors-front-…
Fever Pitch Guy
Old – You told us more than 8 months after everyone else already knew.
Bloom getting promoted was about as surprising as any Tyler O’Neill strikeout.
mlbtraderumors.com/2024/01/cardinals-to-hire-chaim…
Old York
@Fever Pitch Guy
That was hiring him to an Advisory Role.
As for the comparison, most ball players strikeout. Our baseball culture puts more value if big swings over contact. I’m not sure why you picked O’Neal, specifically.
Fever Pitch Guy
Old – Didn’t think I needed to make myself more clear on both points.
Virtually everyone expected Bloom to eventually have a larger role, most likely replacing Moz. Nobody expected him to stay an advisor for a long time, or leave the organization in a short time.
O’Neill played for the Cardinals before this season.
Old York
@Fever Pitch Guy
But you didn’t make the case that it was expected.
Fever Pitch Guy
Old – I don’t follow you here, what case needed to be made? It was an educated opinion by many, not anything that was publicly announced.
dirtyjog
Congrats
sad tormented neglected mariners fan
Bros projection actually worked
Fever Pitch Guy
gey – if you think any Sox fans are crying because Bloom works for another team, you really are incredibly clueless.
deweybelongsinthehall
Fever, while I’m not shedding tears, I think he was hamstrung by Henry, et al. Not every move works out and while I wish he drafted pitching, he left the team with young talent that Breslow has to now decide on. A true baseball leader makes better decisions on who to build around and who to trade.
Fever Pitch Guy
dewey – Yes …. as is often the case, Bloom’s tenure in Boston was not totally black and white. He made a lot of blunders, but working for John Henry meant many obstacles …. that’s why Dombrowski left.
Poolhalljunkies
Dombrowski was fired
Unclemike1525
Dewey- If that’s true Jed Hoyer should be gone any day now.
ClevelandSteelEngines
It’s not like Breslow traded Chris Sale and $14M for Grissom, oh wait he did.
Breslow has been as bad as Bloom but Sox fans are totally fine because he ‘said’ multiple times he was competing or only focusing one things at a time. Only to make future and present moves that ironically aren’t any better than Bloom’s litany of shuffling.
all in the suit that you wear
We need to see what Grissom amounts to before we judge the trade.
Poolhalljunkies
Breslow literally has not even had the job a year , grissom has 5 years of control left to prove himself. You are being way too quick to judge..when was the last time cleveland won anything in baseball? ..just give it time
ClevelandSteelEngines
Salty much? Breslow fans are just doing what Bloom fans did, lol. Apologist for their ‘savior’ guy.
I’m merely calling it as it is, a Cy Young season would’ve been a huge deal for this season. Easily helped with a Wild Card berth. Definitely more than anything a max performance Grissom could have. Even accumulating five years of value won’t be as relevant as the farm will blow by him. It is undoubtedly a terrible deal. And it wasn’t like they needed to make this deal. This was a huge force.
ClevelandSteelEngines
Yeah yeah lets wait until he gets enough WAR to compare to Sale’s one Cy Young season. This trade was horrendous and will be until Grissom grows becomes a regular, everyday 2B. Though that looks unlikely as his ceiling projects more as a utility player.
Fever Pitch Guy
Pool – Dombrowski was at the end of his 4-year contract and he refused to go along with Henry’s desire to switch gears and begin running the team like the Rays by drastically reducing payroll and trying to find hidden gems by going heavy into analytics.
Since both men were not on the same page, they went their separate ways.
Henry also blamed Dombrowski for 2019 (highest payroll in MLB but didn’t make the playoffs), even though it was Cora who torpedoed the season with his Club Med approach from ST through May. But we all know that, so no sense in beating a dead horse.
Fever Pitch Guy
Cleveland – A utility player that Atlanta determined wasn’t capable of playing adequate defense at SS or 2B.
Obviously Grissom has a lot to prove, but it won’t be easy because his MLB track record both offensively and defensively has not been good.
ClevelandSteelEngines
yeah I agree becoming a utility player with be tough for Grissom. Right now that is the ceiling of his projection. It doesn’t account for how crowded the Sox’s middle infield and corner outfield will be for the next few seasons. Hence, why the sale-grissom swap looks horrendous.
Fever Pitch Guy
Cleveland – Even worse, they gave Atlanta $17M not $14M.
If Grissom continues to be a bust, the trade will be one of the most lopsided in MLB history.
Poolhalljunkies
Fpg dd was fired on 9/9/19. ..it may have been symbolic on john henrys part but the season nor dds contract was over at that point…he was very much fired
Oldguy58
Red Sox fans are crying for other reasons
Basketball geek
Bloom had the mentality of a small market GM… that players needed to play multiple positions, but probably were platoon players… not truly starters…. Bad judgement bringing Trevor Story, an already injured veteran, being signed to a long term contract.*** ALSO, only catcher Connor Wong remaining from Mookie Betts trade… Even though probably Owner John Henry gave him a smaller budget, to resign Betts, didn’t get much back… Betts, Devers, Duran would be a sweet core now… NOT SORRY XANDER IS Gone not worth $280M….
all in the suit that you wear
The main return to the Red Sox in the Mookie Betts trade was $48M (half of David Price’s remaining contract), not the players. When you take on that much money, the player return is less.
Basketball geek
Looking Back and peeling down the onion, If Bloom didn’t sign Trevor Story he could have kept Betts, in pure money terms…. He really wasn’t given a chance to see the youth movement through because Henry/ Kennedy never gave him a chance… Mookie was the multi positional player Bloom craved, but it took LA and Andrew Friedman to unlock him around the field, right field, 2nd, short… Bloom could have kept Betts, it wasn’t his player…
Salvi
Basketball geek:
“If Bloom didn’t sign Trevor Story he could have kept Betts, in pure money terms”
1) Two separate years. Red Sox were determined to get under the salary threshold and avoid the 3rd year penalty in 2020. Story wasnt signed until 2022, 2 years later, when they had a much better salary situation.
2) Betts was not resigning with the Red Sox, if he was he wouldve heard them out on a contract extension. He would not even discuss it during his tenure in Boston. Then signed almost immediately after signing with the Dodgers.
Basketball geek
Betts was traded to Dodgers, worked out a deal with Dodgers after the trade… I believe he never made it to free agency… the Dodgers gave him a great deal… OK, Price was included in the Betts trade, opened up 24 million for Sox( Dodgers took some of contract).. Bloom made a questionable signing with Story, who was currently coming off injury… maybe he will give the Sox a few serviceable years at shortstop going forward, obviously Bloom wasn’t resigning Xander( an upcoming free agent)..and needed a replacement… Between Story signing, who has been injured primarily with the Sox, and Connor Wong the only remaining piece from the Betts trade, pretty underwhelming…. BLOOM KNEW WHAT HE WAS SIGNING UP FOR… HENRY/ SOX they blatantly lied about Terry Francona when he was fired, let Dombrowski go after winning the series in 2018…Henry continually dropping payroll…and investing in his other sports teams( Liverpool, racing, Penguins)…Not easy working in Boston, actually may be easier with the Yanks… Who knows if Boone will be back( depends on post season)..I’m a big time SOX fan , that’s why I’m so critical… If Bloom-was given more time his youth movement was progressing…
Salvi
Basket:
1) Betts and Price combined saved the Red Sox something like 40 or 45m. No way they get under the cap if they re-sign Betts, because no one would take Price without a Betts attached.
2) In 2019, the team was over the cap for 2 years, and had a gutted minor league system. There was no way to sustain a contender when you have no payroll flexibility and no minor leaguers ready to step in.
3) Agree on Bloom. It was working. It was a long-term fix for the team, but clearly was working. Although I believe the time was right for a change to a more pitching focused front office.
ClevelandSteelEngines
Just to review the FA around Story, a lot of the other FA have sucked and busts, or simply the Sox wouldn’t have been outbidding the winners (Seager got 10 years).
Not to excuse the deal because it clearly has sucked. However, Bloom’s defense includes that the money needed to be spent. For satiating fans and because there was a need at 2B after making it to the AL championship series. So not spending was out of the cards, and missing on a named FA.
CardsFan57
That’s a lot of words to say we won’t know anything until after the Monday press conference.
Acoss1331
Is Mo gone after his contract expires?
CardsFan57
I’m sure he is. He’s being allowed to retire but ownership has to know he’s past his expiration date.
Acoss1331
It’s an end of an era. Good run for Mo, but yes I think you guys need a change.
brodie-bruce
@ warden
Tbh after that randy & Garcia trade mo has be hesitate to make any real moves (Goldy and Nolan aside), to me after them moves mo has been fun shy and over cautious with his moves last few years. Also having a staff of yes men around him isn’t helping (yes I’m looking at you Ollie)
moneedstogo
@Warden – Yes, Mo has stated is is done after 2025 but hopefully it will be this year instead.
Rsox
Mozeliak probably gets fired and Bloom becomes PoBO because its sounds like he’ll be essentially doing that anyway. Best case scenario is Bloom makes it a two-fer and sends Marmol with him
Fever Pitch Guy
Rsox – And then with Marmol gone, O’Neill returns to the one place where he’s wanted by fans.
eatonculo
Not even close. We couldn’t wait for O’Neill to leave.
Fever Pitch Guy
eaton – I dunno, he got a pretty good sitting ovation when he returned a few months ago.
eatonculo
Every recent former Cardinal gets a standing ovation. Some guys can’t walk near the stadium without rubes falling all over themselves.
Fever Pitch Guy
eaton – I don’t believe that applies to Dexter Fowler, Tino Martinez, Colby Rasmus, Jack Flaherty, or a guy that Cards fans and Red Sox fans have in common …. JD Drew.
its_happening
Low key I think the Blue Jays might take a run at O’Neill. Possibly Seattle. Being from western Canada I could see both scenarios.
CardsFan57
I could see San Diego bringing in O’Neill. He thrived under Shildt in St. Louis.
Fever Pitch Guy
its – I totally agree, O’Neill could fill the role that Turner filled earlier this season. And Jays fans wouldn’t care about all the strikeouts.
Dave Dombrowski is a Winner
I will say I bet Bloom does well with the Cardinals. Henry held him back from succeeding to his full potential.
Fever Pitch Guy
Dave – I think that depends on what position he assumes, and how much experience he gained in Boston.
Bloom was in the same boat that Breslow is in now, a rookie who was expected to make mistakes because of a lack of experience.
bassrun
How about a three-fer? The DeWitt family.
CardsFan57
I’m willing to see if the DeWitts can recover. The truth is they resurrected this franchise when they bought it. It struggled badly after August Busch Jr. died.
AirGuitar721
Been a Cardinals fan my whole life and this is the first time I want them to clean house. Mo, Oli, assistants, everyone. Complete restructuring of the organization. There’s definitely a point at which the way you’ve always done things becomes stale and unproductive. I think we’re there.
mil
I have to agree. Been a Cards fan for 60 years. The Cardinals gave plenty of talent. They need a change in philosophy. This idea of swing hard in case you hit the ball is ridiculous.
cah011381
And stop promoting from within the organization, when the entire organization is clearly broken. Let Bloom bring in his own people from outside and work on fixing the culture and player development.
Fallguy820
Now would be a great time to bring back Jeff Ludenow ( not sure of the spelling ) to be In the front office.
brodie-bruce
Not sure if jeff would wanna come back after the “hack” job when he went to hou.
Tbf jeff was the idiot that kept his same login info when he went to hou so I don’t consider that hacking.
Samuel
brodie-bruce;
Among other things I headed up a department in computer security when it wasn’t even called Computer Security.
1. That is not at all what happened (Mr. Luhnow was a degreed engineer when he got into baseball – he comprehends passwords).
2. That was not remotely what happened as a court case proved.
3. I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.
JoeBrady
Samuel
1. That is not at all what happened (Mr. Luhnow was a degreed engineer when he got into baseball – he comprehends passwords).
========================
What happened then? I am a professional skeptic, and generally chuckle at coincidences. It seems odd that Correa would hack a former Cardinal employee(s) unless he had some insight.
Samuel
Joe;
There was a court case. A Cardinals employee tried to hack into the Astros computer system to see how they were grading players in preparation for the draft.
The Astros caught the intervention. A court case happened. The employee was found guilty and sent to jail.
–
The idea that the employee knew the ID and password that Mr. Luhnow were using because they had used that on the St. Louis system was far-fetched.
1. Passwords are encrypted by security software. So while a systems administrator can see the ID’s that have been set up, he/she cannot see the associated password.
2. The next level if security is basically which ID’s have access to a file of data and what sort of access – read-only or read-write. So if there’s a file containing a list of prospects and their rankings, multiple authorized employees using the computer system can be granted access if they log on correctly.
Stating that an Engineer would tell multiple employees to share an ID and password is absurd. As is the idea that if employees went from one company to another they would all be sharing the same ID and password at the new company.
Think of your own experience. Do you and your spouse use the same ID and password at all of your banking and other on-line services?
The poster above making this claim is accusing a certified frigging engineer that is running major areas of a business not to understand the simplest of concepts. It’s the poster that’s the moron.
–
Now, there is software available that can try hacking into other peoples computer systems via the Internet which will try thousands of potential passwords. But the problem there is that system software will track that, and most are set to lock the ID out if it tries unsuccessfully to logon with a password 3 times. (Have you ever been lock out of access because you typed in your password incorrectly 3 times?) This is how I assume the systems administrator with the Astros found someone was trying to hack into their system via the Internet.
In turn it captures the IP Address the failed log-ins are coming from. At that point the Astros can take whatever legal procedures are in place in their state or with some sort of interstate commerce agency to request the affected providers to reveal where the hacking was originating from. That clearly tied back to the Cardinals computer network in the St. Louis area, and the Astros brought a law suit.
–
What I wrote above is computer security 101. It gets a lot more complicated in the real world.
machumizer
Luhnow kept the same nickname for the scouting department and password, the guy tried logging in from the Cardinals spring training camp in Florida. The Astros were super lax with their security but learned after this incident. I think it was reported that way from a ton of different sources when the allegations came out.
Samuel
machumizer;
You got “super lax” and “ton” in there.
Great!
So why was a Cardinals employee – Chris Correa – tried, convicted, and sent to jail?
Easy Internet search. Multiple links.
eatonculo
“A Cardinals employee tried to hack into the Astros computer system to see how they were grading players in preparation for the draft.”
—-
The Cardinals employee was also trying to see if Luhnow and crew were using proprietary methods created during their time in St. Louis. They were, but no one cares about that part because of the hacking.
The Astros stealing of Cardinals IP always gets left out in the retelling of this story.
cah011381
Luhnow sued the Astros after they fired him so he’ll probably never get an MLB job again. Also every scandal has to have a fall guy, and it looks like it’s him on this one since everyone else has been rehired with the exception of Carlos Beltran.
Kash Considerations
Look Bob Nutting, it really is possible to try something else, even the Cards do it.
Salvi
Red Sox farm is stacked with prospects, Bloom is very good at development. Look at what he’s done in both in Tampa and Boston. He just needs to draft/develop more pitchers to have a more balanced minor leagues.
Ignore FPG, hes a troll. And amazingly he has 3 upvotes within 2 mins, everytime he posts.
johnsilver
—Ignore FPG, hes a troll. And amazingly he has 3 upvotes within 2 mins, everytime he posts–
Because that user generally has a good idea what is going on RS wise and a LOT of so called RS fans are what I term ‘fly by night”, changing with the wind opinion wise.
Salvi
Within 2 mins, everytime. Lol. Borderline cult he has there.
According to him Cora is a terrible manager and Bloom is a terrible GM. How do I know this, he’s said it 10,000 times over the past 4 years. Yet, they both have had plenty of job opportunities throughout the league. Someone is wrong, I’m siding with people in the industry instead of an angry fan. But thats just me.
acell10
Silver: FPG’s next good idea of what’s going on with the red six will be his first.
its_happening
Good point Salvi. The industry said Bloom was a failure, and after watching the Red Sox play the Blue Jays there is nothing special about Cora’s managing. If only he had an Apple Watch to buzz him while he’s asleep.
But congrats to Bloom who has fallen forward once again. “Oh how he can build a farm”. Good, we know his niche and that he should remain where his weaknesses aren’t exploited.
Never heard of you, and if I did I don’t remember you. Cool it with the troll stuff.
acell10
so this is one of one FPG other accounts then.
its_happening
acell instead of worrying about whether I am a burner account, focus on the fact that you provide absolutely nothing to any discussion. That is the only way we know who you are. Now, when you’re ready to be correct for once in your life please let us know. I will be the first to congratulate you on your, umm, achievement.
acell10
If you spent less time patrolling the site and telling people to “cool it with the troll stuff” like you were the chat life guard and a little more time on the sport of baseball you might actually have something worthwhile to contribute to the conversation. .
also you can offer up the praise to those other thirsty posters like yourself or fever pitch guy rather yourself/FPG. unlike me they’re the ones that need it.
Salvi
Good point ‘its’.
“The industry said Bloom was a failure”. Yes, I remember the day MLB put out a statement saying that. It was amazing all thirty teams signed off on it in agreement. Cardinals mustve been like “If we dont give him a job, he’ll probably starve to death”.
Salvi
Looks like it acell.
its_happening
Nah. You falsely accused me of being someone else. Instead of being worried about that, find a way to be useful on this website.
its_happening
It was a good point Salvi. Someday you’ll have one to if you try hard enough to talk baseball.
acell10
again if you spent less energy defending a troll and hypocritically scolding people and put it toward something productive like actually watching baseball you might get taken seriously.
Dave Dombrowski is a Winner
He’s right. Fever Pitch DOES have several accounts.
Dave Dombrowski is a Winner
acell has turned himself into a troll after worrying about who Fever is and who his followers are. It’s obessesing him to figure it out.
Dave Dombrowski is a Winner
You are obsessed at the fact that Fever has followers and YOU disagree. You might think he’s a troll, but you’ve become one as well. This whole conversation is nothing about baseball, it’s about your hubris intentions to be right about Fever’s true identity. Get over it
acell10
I mean the only obsession there seems to be is you with me right now and the world troll. I made one comment and that seemed to send you off the deep end. It was funny at first but you’re on a crash course towards towards sad and creepy.
Which leads anyone to believe that is probably KD17’s what third or forth account?
acell10
if you’re going to throw the word hubris around you should learn how to do so correctly..
acell10
word troll*
Dave Dombrowski is a Winner
Three comments, you definitely seem mad brother. How about just talk baseball and respect other’s opinions? You’ve created the biggest problem here and Fever Pitch didnt even respond. You just keep saying he’s using extra accounts. He knows when to quit, you obviously care about this more than your team, but okay.
Dave Dombrowski is a Winner
I’ve seen you before and you call anyone a troll who disagrees with you.
Dave Dombrowski is a Winner
By the way, I’m Fever Pitch’s upvoter. I came here just to test if you’d pounce on me and call me his twentieth account and you failed. Good job. Get over it. I’ve seen good people get turned away because you criticized them for being FP’s cronies, which they clearly weren’t. You’re too involved in this thing.
I used to dislike Fever, but ever since you’ve gone sour, I decided to follow him because you’re worse
acell10
that’s 5 plus comments you directed to me. you seem very unhappy. It’s just the internet brother. Don’t take it so seriously. Take a long break from white knighting. you’ll feel better for it.
Dave Dombrowski is a Winner
What’s ironic is you attacked me on my other account thinking I was one of Fever Pitch’s cronies and Fever Pitch Guy had me blocked. Just because I disagreed (like others in this case), you assumed i was one of his followers. You also said I was working with Mis Casas but I dont even know the guy, he just likes my posts for some reason.
I never was your enemy, but you made it be.
But to each their own. I only come here to complain these days when I see others being unfair to other posters (as you and FP both are on occasion). You actually talk knowledgeable baseball when you aren’t accusing others against your opinion.
I’ll leave it at that and sign back out, but I’m sure you’re itching to respond.
Fever Pitch Guy
Dave – I’m totally confused by your post. Guessing you meant to respond directly to somebody I muted, because I can’t see direct replies to people I’ve muted.
Why did I mute your other handle? The only time I do is when someone gets personal ie: insults, attacks, etc.
I don’t have cronies, I’m not that important. LOL!!
its_happening
Do you best to spot the hypocrisy. Good luck. You’ll need it.
letitbelowenstein
Salvi, yes. He upvotes himself and probably has at least two other accounts.
its_happening
Letit, I’m not Fever. People might be upvoting because he’s too busy talking baseball while you and the other dimwits talk drama.
Dave Dombrowski is a Winner
Are you sure about that? He’s got a pretty large following and Bloom has been so bad in Boston. This shouldn’t even be news
Dave Dombrowski is a Winner
I’m close to the writers at MLBTR. Fever has multiple accounts but he also hires members to upvote his comments. Since he knows the writers well, he has an “in” with them
its_happening
Dave, I’m not his burner.
Dave Dombrowski is a Winner
I didnt say you were
its_happening
You didn’t read the comments above then.
For Love of the Game
“In doing so, he’s increasingly had to allocate his baseball operations budget to the big league roster at the expense of player development.”
Don’t apologize for Mozeliak! He’s the one who chose to skimp on player development. That’s the cheap part of the business! Signing expensive free agents will overwhelm the savings from underinvesting in player development.
Fever Pitch Guy
Game – Cards haven’t even come close to making it to the WS since they got caught hacking and stealing confidential info from other teams. Just a coincidence?
CardsFan57
Do you mean since the real reason for their success moved to Houston?
mlb fan
“Don’t apologize for Mozeliak”..It’s not like the “Big league roster” is thriving. This is a classic, standard excuse, because “player development” is the most efficient, effective and inexpensive way to acquire players.
DonOsbourne
But, but, but, Mo’s hand got forced. It says so right in the article. Ridiculous. I don’t understand how Mo has managed to cultivate at cult of apologist sports writers, but that is his true talent. He has a bright future as a scumbag politician.
brodie-bruce
@don
Imo mo did build a good team for a while but I think he Icarused himself and thinks he can be all roles. If mo went back to being a gm style pbo and get a manger that knows what there doing maybe I don’t know win enough games to see oct. but I agree with everyone here time to clean house
Joemo
I’m so sorry Cardinal fans.
Prepare yourself for drafting and developing only LH MI prospects
all in the suit that you wear
Bloom drafted one LH middle infielder in 2021 and one in 2022. That’s it. I think Bloom drafted pretty well in Boston. He got Roman Anthony at pick 79 and Kristian Campbell at pick 132.
JoeBrady
We’ve had some very good drafts. Joemo is a casual.
Joemo
4 of Bloom’s 5 1st round picks were LHB. 3 were MI.
Instead of drafting desperately needed SP he continued to draft Middle Infielders with top picks.
Bloom drafted position players well, because that’s where they invested a lot of their draft and IFA capital.
all in the suit that you wear
Bloom had 4 drafts, not 5. When Bloom started, everything was desperately needed in the farm system. He drafted in the 1st round:
2020: Yorke, RH infielder
2021: Mayer, LH infielder, top rated player in the draft. Should he pass that up?
2022: Romero, LH infielder, OF Roman Anthony got more money
2023: Teel, LH catcher, 7th rated prospect fell to them at pick 14. Should he pass that up? A catcher was needed in the farm system.
Nothing wrong with any of it that I can see. You basically draft the best player available and you can trade for what you need later. For example, Yorke was just traded for pitching.
Joemo
The article I looked at went back another year, whoops.
In every single one of Bloom’s drafts, the earliest he drafted a pitcher was 2022 in the third round with their fourth pick. The other three years the first pitcher drafted was in the 4th round.
The major league and minor league teams were so far behind pitching talent wise that not drafting any help is insane.
Bloom could have traded prospect to fix the pitching issue, but never did.
For someone who was part of the Rays for such a long time, you’d think he would know how important pitching is.
That is why the Sox farm looks good from a position player standpoint and God awful regarding pitchers. This is why Breslow had to draft 14 pitchers (one two way player) with the earliest toircher drafted in the second round. That’s how you clearly address the weakness.
all in the suit that you wear
I’m not convinced Bloom took a bad approach. He might have, but maybe not, so I don’t bash him. I’ve heard that when building a farm system, it is good to focus on position players first and then pitching because position players are a lower risk to bust. Bloom may have taken this approach. I looked at Bloom’s drafts and I see:
2020: 2 of 4 picks were pitchers and 12 of 16 undrafted players signed were pitchers
2021: 8 of 20 picks were pitchers and 1 of 2 undrafted players signed were pitchers
2022: 13 of 21 picks were pitchers and 0 of 2 undrafted players signed were pitchers
2023: 12 of 22 picks were pitchers and 1 of 2 undrafted players signed were pitchers
So, I don’t think Bloom completely neglected pitching. When I see Luis Guerrero on the Red Sox who was drafted in the 17th round (pick 496) in 2021 and see Jack Leiter the 2nd pick in the 2021 draft struggling to succeed in MLB, I think drafting pitchers may be a very unpredictable thing. So, using higher round picks for more predictable position players may make sense. I don’t know for sure what the correct conclusion is about Bloom’s drafts, but I don’t think it is fair to say he completely neglected pitching. It looks like he may have neglected it a little or taken a good approach. I think the good news is that the farm system seems strong and going in the right direction.
all in the suit that you wear
Joemo: Since you mentioned the Rays, I was curious and found this for the Rays recent drafts:
2021: first pitcher drafted in the 6th round
2022: first pitcher drafted in the 3rd round
2023: first pitcher drafted in the 5th round
2024: first pitcher drafted in the 4th round
So, the Rays are not drafting pitching higher than Bloom. Bloom might have been following a similar approach to the Rays.
ClevelandSteelEngines
Minor league position players can turn into minor league pitchers in trades. Then you trade for the guys with trait you think will improve. This lowers risks and prospect capital as your struggling position players can hold their value better.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
There appears to be an “in” group of names.
These name have never been successful
But…..
They appear to be little darlings.. always, always, always….talked about and supported in the media.
WHY?
NONE OF THEM HAVE DONE THE JOB SATISFACTORY.
THEY MOVE.FROM TEAM TO TEAM AND ARE STILL LITTLE.DARLINGS.
WHY?
johnsilver
frogsaregrey- Shame they don’t have a poll here for post of the year.. You’d get my vote for that crown jewel..
The Saber-toothed Superfife
I must be overly romantic and buy into an idea that these rich guys have some sort of competition between themselves based on personal pride and feeling of responsibility towards the communities their teams represent both sociologically and economically. Somehow I want to believe they make their money elsewhere and baseball is a luxury our culture can afford with all of our economic freedoms (success = free time and financial savings).
Dummy me.
It’s the bottom line.
The Saber-toothed Superfife
I suppose it could be a problem if the taxman declares your mlb team a hobby and not a business due to continued write offs…..
It's in the CARDS
This. After all we are writing on any topic we want for all humans to come essentially for free. None of us are starving.
CTS4
C’mon Toronto Fire Shatkins…..
mlb fan
Hire someone who can actually assess talent.
Joemo
Crying for what? I’m glad hes no longer ruining my favorite team.
davemlaw
I may be talking out of my rear end but didn’t the Cards used to receive an extra pick in the draft for being a “small market” team? And didn’t that extra pick go away 5-7 years ago?
I’m not a Cards fan so don’t follow them closely but it seems losing that extra pick has coincided with their downfall in player development. That and Yadier being gone, which means the team isn’t quite as good.
I’d love to hear more about this from informed Cards fans.
Bucket Number Six
The last extra pick they used on pitcher Tink Hence in 2020. He’s 22, a top 100 prospect and will be in AAA next year.
RobblyDobs
Successful lobbying by the Cubs, the only actual large market team in the NLC. But dont expect this site to criticise the Cubs.
ih8tepaperstraws
I’m pretty sure they still get compensatory round picks. But they don’t always retain them. they lost them for the stealing information from Houston and lost this years for signing Gibson and then the second round pick for signing Gray I believe.
Bucket Number Six
The Cards don’t get the competitive balance picks anymore. Also, Gibson did not have a QO. So, no pick was lost for signing him.
bpskelly
Im a subscriber, and Katie Woo’s piece is about as encompassing of piece on the state of the franchise — wholly unsurprising to anyone who follows this team — is as on target as it gets. Great work by her.
My personal gut/feel was post Covid the $$$ just went away. I even think they’ve skimped on stuff with the stadium. The irony is they’re floating asking the taxpayers for $$$ for renovations as well.
Not a great look when your skimping on the actual team as well.
cah011381
This whole article was basically a repeat of everything Katie Woo said.
JimOToole
Here’s Katie Woo’s story in a nutshell:
Not including affiliate coaches, special advisors or medical coordinators, the Cardinals have five full-time minor-league instructors, which marks their leanest staffing level in the past decade.
That number becomes even more conspicuous when compared to other teams in the National League. The Phillies boast 14 full-time field staff members. The Mets employ 15 staffers, including coordinators for catching, base running, infield and outfield. The Brewers, winners of the National League Central three times in the past four seasons, retain 17 staffers.
JoeBrady
Here’s Katie Woo’s story in a nutshell:
=========================
So sad when I see this type of reporting, and then compare it to low-talent writers from Boston. Kudos to Katie.
Kyle Pepperpants
Hope they don’t dump Stubby. He’s awesome and I wish he would replace Marmol.
letitbelowenstein
Here’s a thought. With his former ties to Boston, will Bloom consider approaching Varitek about managing the team?
cah011381
I would actually be fine with that.
brodie-bruce
@cah011382
At this point I’d be fine with with a toddler if that means Ollie is gone
It's in the CARDS
A toddler would sure be ejected less often.
baseballpun
Player development has been a glaring problem, no question. Though they have some core bats in place (Nootbaar, Donovon, Winn, Burleson and I’m not counting out Walker yet) to build around. They haven’t developed any starting pitchers in forever, which is a huge problem.
Despite all this they’re going to finish the year with a (barely) winning record, and if Goldy and Arenado hadn’t s*** the bed they’d probably be in a WC position. Not great by any means but not a total dumpster fire. I think with the youth on the team already there’s no need for a total tear down. But Goldy needs to be shown the door and they should be open to trading Arenado if he wants out (maybe even Contreras if he wants out, though I hope he stays). I don’t know if they have the assets to get any young pitching but they should explore that. Given how little production they got out of Arenado and Goldy and how much Contreras was hurt, I don’t think the team will be any worse next year without those guys.
Helsley is the interesting piece. If they want to try and compete next year they need to keep him, but he’d certainly be a valuable trade chip.
DonOsbourne
Their winning record is a little misleading though. They have a negative run differential and an unsustainable record in one run games. The back end of the bullpen has been so good, it’s made the overall product look better than they really are. There is likely to be some regression from the bullpen next season even if everyone comes back.
CujoMarlin
So, they’ll regress in the one remaining game this season?
Wagner>Cobb
Nootbaar hasn’t cemented himself as a reliable contributor. He either underperforms or – in year’s where he plays well – he’s hurt.
ih8tepaperstraws
Couldn’t read much more after Nootbaar was listed as a bat to build around. He’s terrible, to say he has a bat is insulting to bats. His OPS looks good because he has a on base % 100+ higher than his average because he doesn’t know how to use a bat and looks to walk first. He only performs in junk time. His numbers the last couple weeks have been decent, but again all those games were meaningless since they’ve been out of it for so long already.
Wagner>Cobb
Agreed with all of this. They’ve dreamed on his exit velo numbers and above average tools, but he showed this year he’s basically a 4th OF. Not consistent enough in terms of performance or health.
BaseballisLife
Because Bloom did such an outstanding job developing players when he was with the Red Sox. Makes perfect sense.
Salvi
Spot on.
Baseball America has six Red Sox prospects in their top 100 (Mayer, Anthony, Teel, Campbell, Montgomery, Arias). Something Boston have never done before. Mayer, Anthony, Teel and Campbell were direct results of Bloom’s 3 drafts. There’s also a few more names hovering just outside of that Top 100 as well (Cespedes, Perales, Romero).
BaseballisLife
MLB Pipeline has 5 Red Sox in the top 100 and 3 were Bloom picks or signings. Montgomery was a 2024 pick, after Bloom was fired.
Salvi
“3 were Bloom picks”
Which one do you not think is a not Bloom pick? Mayer, Anthony, Teel or Campbell?
Bloom has done very superb on drafting/developing players. Fault him for trades or FA signings, but developing players he has done excellent in both Tampa and Boston.
brodie-bruce
@ salvi
Tbf to bloom his bad trades and fa’s, how much did ownership meddle in his decision making and just making the best moves with what he has to work with.
I don’t know I’m a cards fan and don’t follow the rs to much, and all I know about him is from the user posts about him in Boston. Unfortunately when you get any fan bases opinion it’s going to be very basised to either he’s the goat or is the worst of all time
Salvi
Brodie:
Not sure what your point is. During Blooms tenure, the trades were mixed. Some good, some bad. And the drafts were excellent.
How much did ownership meddle in the drafts? If we cant assign responsibility for trades i would assume we cant assume anything on drafts. For that matter every GM shouldnt be talked about since we dont know how muxch credit they should be given. Again whats your point, we should we never speak of GMs again?
brodie-bruce
@ salvi
Sorry if I wasn’t clear enough, question was how much did Henry and co handcuff bloom and made the moves he made because that was the best option he had or he really is just that bad at being a gm?
As a cardinals fan my only gauge of him is all the comments from Sox fans and most are pretty bad, and I take that info with a grain of salt because fan bases are to invested and may not see things objectively.
ih8tepaperstraws
That’s great they have 6 top 100 prospects. But as Cardinals also fans no, prospect ranking don’t mean anything if you can’t perform at the major league level. So his drafts results ads still mostly unknown. Brian Bello is a decent middle of the rotation guy on the Red Sox roster, I believe he was drafted by Bloom. He never was a top 100 prospect but he is an ok pitcher, just nothing special.
Salvi
Ih8:
Bello was not Blooms draft and really isnt doing that well ewither.
Bloom was only in charge if Boston for 3 years and not one of his big ticket draft picks have reached the majors. So Im basing it on what we know. Hiwever, we do know that players drafted in Tampa have made the majors and are doing well.
JoeBrady
So Im basing it on what we know.
==========================
I think what we know is that we could probably easily get Crochet straight-up for Anthony. So we know that we have developed a ton of talent, even if we cannot accurately predict the future.
Champs64
The article says that the Cardinals have shown some interest in signing free agent Andrew Kittredge. They should have great interest in signing him. He was part of a good bullpen. I hope he returns.
cah011381
I do too. He’s probably a closer candidate next year if they decide to trade Helsley.
30 Parks
I think MLBTR meant “larger role going to take on Chaim Bloom.”
DbacksonIceDryHarder
Chaim Bloom like Bendix and NG, wouldn’t even be on the MLB map if it wasn’t for that non traditional Roger Beshens Football slider that’s taken over MLB since 2018. Roger is an influence currently with the Dbacks now it may be smart for the Cardinals chaim in any capacity to hire Roger Beshens.
There are constant power struggles teaching this amazing slider through the organizations from the analytic dept to upper management and even connections to the minors,
DbacksonIceDryHarder
Everyone by now should know Bloom, NG, Bendix are nothing without implementing the Roger Beshens Football Slider. The Cardinals, Mariners, Orioles very late to the party but at least the O’s and M’s understand it very well. There are power struggles from the analytic people to upper management. Roger is an influence with the Dbacks currently and the inept analytic people with the upper management wanted Nelson to ditch the Roger Beshens Football Slider after the Orioles game. Proof that analytics means nothing for developing a pitcher. It can absolutely hinder a pitchers growth and ruin his career.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I thought the football slider was what is causing all the arm problems in baseball. It’s a pitch you probably want to learn NOT to throw.
brodie-bruce
@ignorant
Who cares as long as we can get 3 maybe 4 seasons out of the kid before he blows up and we just find the next kid to pay pennies on the dollar for and blow up rinse and repeat.
DbacksonIceDryHarder
It’s the Cutter and morphed cutter that’s killing arms. The Football Slider has a 90 degree tilt, once off of that 90 degree tilt much more stress on arm.
DbacksonIceDryHarder
There’s no way a weighted ball, one that is heavier than a baseball is good on the arm. Throwing a tennis ball or a normal baseball is not going to hurt the arm. I wouldn’t let a trainer tell me anything unless I needed it. Most never pitched before have no idea how an arm feels after throwing a 100 pitches. After throwing REST is the BEST. Once the arm is built up it needs rest after throwing not constant tubing and throwing weighted balls.
SupremeZeus
71-91 & 81-78. Redbird fans think this is pain?
Card66
I have lost faith in the Cardinals, if they do not get rid of Marmol and company, I will not be a season ticket holder any longer.
Bounty Hunters IA
Trash organization continues to fall apart and will for many years.
RobblyDobs
Brilliant analysis, thank you.
Wagner>Cobb
They won’t bring Goldy back. They’ll probably look to trade Gray and Arenado, though I don’t think they’ll be able to move the latter. Bloom would also likely be thrilled if he could dump Contreras, but he’ll be stuck with him as well.
JoeBrady
I don’t think their talent assessment is bad, they just seem confused.
1-They didn’t trade Arenado or Goldie last year.
2-With $61M spent on those two, they could only spend $22M on Gibson & Lynn, instead of buying higher=tier SPs.
3-With more players than positions, they jettisoned O’Neill.
4-They promoted Walker way too early. He had 116 Ks in 461 ABs in AA. That’s an issue.
I think they have talent, but badly need to reorganize.
9er78
Chaim Levine.
Samuel
DonOsbourne
Are you as shocked as I was?
Imagine that…..
For the last 4-5 years the guy that wears the Branch Rickey bowtie (Mr. Rickey invented the farm system because his teams didn’t have the revenue to compete for big name players from independent leagues) has been paying free agents that were past their primes, and taking on massive salaries in trades for players also past their primes. One guy on here (wait…that was me) called them the NY Yankees of the NL.
Today we find out from some hard-hitting journalism that (gasp) the Cardinals head guru was cutting corners on minor league instructors – which may (we don’t have stats for this yet so it might not be authentic) be why when the majority of the highly-publicized Cardinals prospects get to the major leagues they aren’t terribly good for more then a year or two…if that.
Who could have thunk it?
Learn something new every day, no?
Samuel
Wait…
ML teams have player development people?
I thought from reading posts here that if a team drafts a guy and he turns out good, the player is responsible. And if he turns out not good, then he’s bad and they were stupid to draft him.
Some teams make players they have under contract better?
I mean, like man, the Brewers like make their players super good? Hummmmm. This is a whole new concept on MLBTR. Shocker!
DbacksonIceDryHarder
Everyone knows pitchers are taught the Roger Beshens Football Slider and the cream rises to the top. So pitching development people are hugely overated. Put a sign on the door Here’s the Roger Beshens Football Slider, On center grip, throw like football, Stiff wrist. If you have any questions contact Roger Beshens he’s communicating with Strom this whole 2024 season.
DbacksonIceDryHarder
Roger Beshens taught Steve Cline his football slider in Spring training 2019 and communicated with others in the Brewers system in May 2018. So that’s why the Brewers pitchers are so good. Same for the Rays, Yankees. Beshens taught Glasnow in Pitt before the trade and Matt Blake was with Clv when Beshens taught Matt Blake.
DonOsbourne
Nothing in the article surprised me. I actually don’t think the article went far enough. The major league staff has failed these young players just as much as anyone. The firing of Mike Shildt was never mentioned. Mo was mostly given a pass in spite of egregious mismanagement.
Niekro floater
Bloom was set-up to be the fall guy w/mngmnt having him @helm when unpopular money saving transactions got pushed through … like Betts.
paulk-2
As long as Mozeliak and Marmol are shown the door, it’s an upgrade.
Domingo111
His trades and signings in Boston were quite bad but he drafted Anthony, cases and Campbell among others who could be staples of the lineup the next 5-6 years
Gary R
Cardinals signed Bloom to take the blame’s away from Mo! Mo still running things.
pjmcnu
If Mozeliak and Marmol survive the first week of October, I’d be shocked (and if I were a Cards fan, pissed).