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Red Sox Targeting Closer?

The Boston Globe's Nick Cafardo has a J.D. Drew update for us.  It may be that Boras does not want to revise Drew's contract given that Boras's surgeon gave Drew's shoulder the thumbs up.

More intriguing is a line at the end of the post - the Red Sox are targeting a trade for a closer and are targeting one of Chad Cordero, Brad Lidge, and Mike Gonzalez.

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Comments

I'm assuming coco crisp is in all of those deals?

Finally some sox closer info Gonzalaz seems to me like the long shot I think they will end up with Cordero

Coco or Willy Mo..but dont be surprised if Hansen or Delcarmen is involved

What happend to cordero, he was sick in 05', but he sucked last year

If the sox trade coco, they will probably end up with a Japanese center fielder...

haHaHAha!!!

Too bad the Red Sox aren't dumb enough for the Cubs to unload Dempster...although Hendry's probably dumb enough to think Dumpster's alright.

Lidge will probably have a huge bounce back year. His K rate is still outstanding and even in a nightmare season he was less than a hit per inning. Some of those batted balls are likely to be outs this year and maybe a couple less flyballs into the cheap seats in Enron Field. Lidge for Crisp makes sense.

mely what are you talking about? If they traded coco they would move Drew or Wily Mo there and even if they traded both Wily and Coco(which they wont) they would move Drew to center and have Hinske to right.

Not to mention David Murphy or Ellsbury!

"Lidge for Crisp makes sense."

Personally, I don't know what sense you are talking about, but I don't think its baseball sense. Coco is not worth the value of a shutdown closer like Lidge--not even close.

Kramerica, I WAS JUST KIDDING!!! Did you see the HAhahaHA at the bottom of the post!

I dont see why the sox are balking on Drew? If Scott Boras gives his word that he is healthy, that's good enough for me. It's not like Scott Boras is a scummy, whore-mongering, money grubbing agent or anything. Take an honest man at his word for gosh sakes!

Lidge for Crisp +Prospects would make sense.

Lidge is not a 'shutdown' closer. If this was the case there wouldnt be any reason to trade him. Shutdown closers are certainly not a dime a dozen

hahaha doesnt automatically mean that your kidding for all I know your some stupid Yankee fan that has no I dea what they are talking about

gobosox420 what types of prospects are you talking about

"Personally, I don't know what sense you are talking about, but I don't think its baseball sense. Coco is not worth the value of a shutdown closer like Lidge--not even close."

True, I was talking about principals in the deal. Houston could use another young arm back in the deal.

Interesting. If I were Theo, I'd go after Gonzo or Lidge. Something tells me Cordero won't be lights out in the AL East.

AL East is going to scar pitchers this year. Every team can and will mash including the DRays (Crawford, Baldelli etc) and Orioles (Tejada, Markakis etc).

Its going to be murder.

Not sure to be honest. Maybe lowell could be worked in a deal? Stros arent too high on ensberg and Theo wants a 1st basemen. Trading lowell+crisp might work.

Lidge for Crisp doesn't make sense at all. Trading Taveras finally opened up a slot for Chirs Burke to play everyday until Biggio retires, and once that happens, Houston has some options at CF (Hunter Pence, Jason Lane, and Josh Anderson).

melyrules, what was the comment about a JAPANESE centerfielder...so what if he's Japanese or not?...Ichiro played CF last year and he's a damn good player...please explain because right now you read like you just popped off and made a borderline racist comment...

"What happend to cordero, he was sick in 05', but he sucked last year"

How do you figure he sucked last year? He posted a WHIP of 1.10 and struck out more batters than he did in '05, while putting up a respectable ERA of 3.19. The only real difference is that in '05 the Nationals were a lot better than they were in '06, and thus he got more save opportunities. His peripheral stats and the innings pitched were nearly very similar both seasons--he just had less chances to pitch with the lead. I'd hardly say he sucked. That's an ignorant statement.

How did Cordero suck last year? His WHIP & BAA was better than Gonzalez' & Lidge. Plus he's 4 years younger than Gonzalez & 6 years younger than Lidge. Cordero's ERA will bounce back & he will still be a force to be reckoned with as a closer. I'd take him over either one of the others.

Umm.. who's the Japanese CF he's even talking about?

Hey Melky.. in case you forgot.. the Yanks have a Japanese LF.

wow he was just joking there is no japanese center fielder involved

If he was kidding.. then that's even worse because his statement has no other meaning other than a racist one.

but Duffy how was it funny? can you explain what he was joking about?

None of us get it....

it just wasnt a serious comment he probably said it beacause the red sox just signed matsuzaka and that other japanese reliever just forget about it

Just because teams have a few nice names in the lineup doesn't mean the whole team can suddenly "mash." Hell, Crawford and Baldelli aren't exactly great hitters anyway. If you think that, you've been playing fantasy baseball too long.

Pedantic... my comment didn't mean that all the teams in the AL East are going to score 900 runs. All I meant was that they're all tough lineups to get through. The DRays and Orioles are filled with scrubs. It's going to be tough for pitchers to work through the lineups.

Sorry.. meant to say: DRays and Orioles AREN'T filled with scrubs... well mabbe the Orioles are :D

haha! Crawford's straight steal of home was my 'play of the year'.
I wonder what kind of fine the Red Sox gave to Johnson for allowing that?

Dear everyone,

My comment of the red sox getting a japanese center fielder was a joke. I only said that because the sox just got Matsuzaka and okajimma. And also, the sox fans are just moving on from the D-Mat deal, it would be funny to go through another bidding and another 30 day posting period.
Sincerely,
Melyrules

( who's actually melkyrules)

I also apoligize if any of you are japanese and my comment affended you)

Nicely done mely, now explain how Cordero sucked last year.

People are way too thin-skinned nowadays.

Nicely done indeed Melky.

I was simply baffled by the comment but I guess I kinda understand the reasoning now.

Yeah, pinetarhead-- I realy dident follow Cordero last year. I guess I just judged him by his amount of saves. To everyone-- Cordero DOSENT suck. I'm sorry.

Excellent! Is there anything else you've done in your life that you'd like to apologize for? We're listening.

I apoligize for screwing up my screename and making it Mely insted of Melky. I apoliigize for sitting on my freinds birthday cake.

I apoligize for putting two I'S in "apoligize" above

Oh, and pinetarhead, what do you mean by "Exellent!" above"

Crisp + prospects to get Lidge? I'd rather use an arm we already have to close.

As far as Delcarmen going in any deal, I'd say that's far less likely than Hansen or Edgar Martinez going.

hehe, pinetarhand, I also apolagize for AXEDENTILY calling you pinetarHEAD. And for spelling axedentily wrong

I never typed "Exellent"? & since when am I pinetarhead? It's definitely funny, but why?

uhhhh..... you wrote Excellent! in that post above where you told me to apoligize for thing's.

So back to the topic, Cordero, what would it take to get him in Boston seeing how Jim Bowden has been ripping people off lately, I'd say it's about time it happens to him too.

pintarHEAD was a typo, sorry... again

I was referring to your admittance that Cordero is still a good closer. It was an excellent job to admit that you were mistaken & move on.

Now that I am finished apoligizing, lets talk baseball.

(this is my first post) but the Sox shouldn't be scared to trade away one of their Cf's since next yr's CF's class is very deep. Gonzo/Cordero/Lidge are all young guys, and will beat out Hensen or any of their other closer prospects. the trade should be (for lidge)

Coco+(top 5 prospect) for Lidge. Then the next year sign Andruw Jones, or even Tori

These comments are a wee bit off topic


Anyway....


Out of those 3 options, I feel Lidge is the best oen. Even though he had nightmares about some guy named Albert Pujols throughout the whole season, he clearly has the filthiest stuff among those 3 pitchers. Sox just need to find a guy that will get this guy straight and stop thinking about that HR 2 years ago and Lidge will become a top 3 closer once again striking out 100+ and saving 45+ games.

I dont see Houston wanting to trade for coco Crisp.

The whole point of moving Taveras was to open a whole for Burke to play in CF till Pence is ready.

The need for Houston is relief pitching and starting pitching still and 3B. But, I dont see them making a deal here for a CF.

Now something like this maybe with a 3rd team?


Astros get:
Prospect (hansen/lester/SP prospect)
Ricky Nolasco SP 24yr old

Boston gets:
Brad Lidge CL

Marlins gets:
Coco Crisp OF

Something like that or another team instead of the marlins that can give them a young starter to join in.

Minor thoughts to toss out for you guys.

Otherwise I think it would be more like:

Boston gets:
Brad Lidge

Houston gets:
Lester, Hansen

I don't think stros would do Lidge for Hansen, Lester straight up. Sox have to add another top 5 prospect to one of those pitchers to make the deal happen.

lester and hansen seems a lot for lidge. if it comes down to that to get lidge, they'll look at their other options. knowing how dumb the pirates are they'll end up w/ gonzo if that's the case

Theo shouldn't give up Lester & Hansen to get a 30 yr old closer with issues.

Just have Lester close maybe? ala Papelbon?

lester wont be ready this season though, espically w/ all that pressure. i say, do a trade w/ the pirates. you know you can pratically give whoever you want to them for whatever you want. they're a stupid orgnization.

It's not about being thin-skinned or being personally offended. It personally doesn't affect me one way or the other. I'm not Japanese. If someone wants to live their life without an open mind in ignorance that's their choice. In today's world they only disadvantage themselves.

But it is a problem when someone may happen to be in a position to later affect others' lives empowered by that kind of thinking. That's dangerous. MelyRules apologized so it was probably a misunderstanding.

But, I think not many here may realize that the baseball tradition in Japan goes back about as far as it does in the US, around 100 years. And, they have had many high quality players who could have been stars here during that span too. Not bad for a small island.

basemonkey. we get it. we all moved on.

^^^^^^^^^ It's only now that we're starting to realize that.

Not so long ago, there were a lot of racist thoughts around Latin players not being athletic or good enough to play in the majors too. Boy, has times changed today.

FuzzyPinkHandCuffs, classy.

I think Cordero goes to Boston or Chicago, along with Ryan Church.

If he goes to Boston though it will be for Pena and Edgar Martinez.

Why did the sox give up on foulke? If he were to return to his 04' style, he would be much better than any of these other guys. Oh, and what happend to Kei Igawa? I know it far off topic, but if the deals's gunna get done, Cashman better get busy.

mely the deal is already official

I thought there were some "stuff" that had to happen to make it official. Will they have a press confrence? Oh, and Kramerica, if you still think that my comment WAAAY above is racist-- Scroll uo a bit and read.

"Scroll UP a little bit"

"I think Cordero goes to Boston or Chicago, along with Ryan Church.

If he goes to Boston though it will be for Pena and Edgar Martinez."

Finally a semi decent proposal. Coco Crisp is not being traded for any reason what so ever.

They do not need to trade for a closer period, so the idea that they are going to ship significant parts of the team of for one is just retarded.

Many people have come to think Covelli Loyce Crisp will be great next year, maybe an all-star

Who are many people?

Mike Gonzolez to Sox - 15%
Brad Lidge to Sox - 25%
Chad Cordero to Sox - 65%

That is it they decide to trade for a closer at all. They dont need to but Im confident they will.

"Many people" are Red Sox fans.

Isn't it weird that a guy named "KRAMERica" is calling someone out for being racist?

Who's he calling racist?

I hope he's not calling me racist in some other post. Basemonkey, you know that comment I made a ways back that everyone thought I was being racist, right. Yeah I made an apolagy. So if you think i'm racist, think whatever you want, I know that i'm not. ( This weird post is only nessesary if Kramerica was saying I was racist)

hey arod what Chicago team are you talking about the Cubs (hopefully i want them to come to the Cubs too) or the Whitesox.

Although i'm not arod ( very weird saying that) I think he ment the WhiteSox.

who would the whitesox give up they already traded Brandon McCarthy.

Perhaps one of the guys they got in the deal or Braian Anderson

By "One of the guys they got in the deal", i dont mean Danks.

didnt call anyone racist i just wanted to why that joke was funny. I didnt get it

Alright Kramerica, your innocent of calling me racist. Anyway, everyone knew it was going to happen, Igawa is officially official. Any news on a press confrence?

Why would the white sox want Cordero? They already have Jenks (who did have a bad ERA last year but still) and in addition they have MacDougal who can close if need be. I understand they need RP but i don't think they need to go off a guy that will require money of one of the top closers in the league.

Please Note: I'm not saying he is one of the top closers in the league but with his age he will get top value in return.

Please don't turn this site into a PC monster. Melky(or mely, whatever) made a little joke and I know it was a long post ago, but for God's sake, let's not get all ESPN in here. He didn't make fun of anyone's ethnicity at all. Breathe people. Now about the Sox and the search for a closer. I would take Cordero over Lidge and it would probably only cost Wily Mo. That's not a bad deal considering that Drew, Crisp, and Manny make a pretty decent OF with a good #4 in Hinske. Cordero would be a good move for the Sox.

Funny what contrevesy's a simple joke can make.

"I would take Cordero over Lidge and it would probably only cost Wily Mo"

no way. The Astros already have turned down Lidge for Wily Mo. Bowden usually asks for the farm in trades, so Cordero for Wily Mo will not take place.

ArodSucks... I couldn't read the whole blog coz I refuse to pay the Bristol Empire for useless "insider info... but I think I get the gist of Gammons' assertion... I would counter that this is a Red Sox shill with an agenda to calm any misgivings among those in RS Nation, but it rings hollow here... for every Guardado or Nathan story, there are at least two other teams that failed to identify a closer, and lived to regret it.

No sale.

I just popped in to do a search and make sure the Cubs were mentioned somewhere here in this comment section. Mission accomplished!

sturt. No way the Sox give up their top prospect (Ellsbury) and Lester a guy who many scouts believe has better stuff than papelbon for Lidge. It's not just about he's now a New England darling. I'm not going to say Lester is the best thing since Bob Gibson, hut he's already pitching with experience that's far beyond his years. He and Papelbon stand a good chance of being an intimidating duo in a couple of years.

If anything I agree with Gammons. Let it ride.

Call Timlin the default closer. Monitor Delcarmen and Hansen in spring training and deeply consider putting both of them back in Pawtucket unless they show considerable improvement (Interesting note, Ferrell the new BoSox pitching coach badly wanted Delcarmen in an Indians uniform in the Coco trade, wonder if he saw something he can correct). See how well Okajima does adjusting but plan on him being a lefty specialist. Tell Tavarez he's the new set up man but see if he has the poise to close. Worse comes to worse you can then trade. Trading for someone will cost the Sox a lot. Too much.

I'm not sure Tavarez has the head to close. He's a freakin' basket case. Plus he tends to walk way too many batters without striking enough out.

Pence can't really play any OF position well except LF and certainly not CF. He doesn't have the arm to play RF really well either.

purple, I would agree with you that Lidge for both Ellsbury and Lester would be a steal for the Astros... that wasn't the trade, though... you're missing a quite vital component, likely because it's not as easy for Sox fans to know much about the Stros farm system... here's a start: Patton was pitching in the Futures game as a low-A pitcher... suffice it to say, there's a reason for that.

Where's your info coming from, Havok? It sounds like you got last off-season's scouting report on Pence... "they" are saying that Pence has worked his way up to being an above average fielder in RF and CF, and of course his arm is about the same... seeing is believing for me, too, though... I really can't imagine the guy trying to cover all of that ground in center in MMP, but RF, maybe.

I got that part, I just omitted it. Even with a pitching prospect I think it's a bad deal for the Sox. I've seen Lester pitch in pressure, this kid has ice water in his veins and needs more polishing to become damn good. Lester is untouchable. Hansen on the other hand is not.

To clear some stuff up, I meant Lester OR Hansen in my featured trade proposal, not both of them. That would be crazy for the Sox to even consider.


uhh andrew, watch ur addition there buddy. 65+25+15 does not equal 100.

Lidge will not be traded for Lester+Ellsbury

Why include Patton if he's as good as Lester? Doesnt make any sense.

I think its a match made in heaven personally. Coco crisp for lidge. I dont know if you have examined the astros weakest points, but Outfield defense is at the top. Specially with the downgraded pitching staff it makes a defensive upgrade in CF all the more necessary.

Coco would actually improved the club dramatically. He would increase the outfield defense dramatically over burke or pence. That would but burke at utility and at 2b after biggio gets 3000. That also increases our offense because coco is better offensively than burke and burke is better than biggio. Burke would also increase our infield defense. Thus making our pitching situation not so dramatic. Also, leaves plenty of room for the farm kids to step it up for the no 4 and 5 spots. I have been saying this is the perfect trade for both teams for over a month now.

1. Coco crisp
2. Burke
3. Berkman
4. Lee
5. Scott
6. Ensberg
7. Everett
8. Ausmus
9. Pitcher

Man that looks so much better than what we have now. It makes the 789 spot not so scary. Also, if your a boston fan and wouldnt approve this trade you are crazy. With Lidge you would dominate the AL straight up, and you have plenty of OF options. I have wrote this to every mailbag I can to maybe inspire something lol.

I'm sorry megastar but there is no way in hell that deal (crisp for lidge) is going through. They could get so much more than just crisp if they dangle Lidge. Maybe Crisp and Decarlmen?

That's not alot more but still better than the previous deal.

Ohh, I know that...I expect that prospects and what not would have to be included, but thats just tweaking the main part of the deal.

I just think crisp would do so much for the stros...we are in desperate need of starting pitching...maybe LHSP prospect???

1) Crisp has been a disappointment in Boston... no interest in Houston in acquiring a disappointment.

2) GoBo, I'm probably talking to the hand by now, but fwiw... as you're well aware, roster management is about resource allocation... attempting to use areas of strength to supplement areas of concern... Lester is surplus for 07... the rationale is that, if one can reasonably expect to acquire the equivalent or better starting lefty for 08, and in so doing, acquire an established closer, it makes sense to look at that.

3) The names you Sox fans are bringing up are classic "let's see if anyone else will take our disappointments off our hands" kind-of-thinking. If you want to acquire proven talent, you have to ante up with talent of somewhat equivalent expectations. Crisp, Hansen, Delcarmen... none of those qualify.

If it can't work out, fine.... keep what you got, and we'll keep what we have.

huh, everyone keeps calling Crisp a CFer... I would think BoSox fans atlest know this to be a stretch and the rest of the world will soon catch on.

Truth is he has a horrible arm and questionable judgement. As a Cleveland fan I can tell you for every ESPN highlight there was two dives he missed or misjudged flights. He's very fast and a fun guy to watch why he does make the play but he is suited for LF not center.

He also isn't a leadoff hitter, as the Sox found out last year but that's another issue and was only brought up in the last post.

We have to remember that the Sox being so willing to trade a guy 1 year after they have one of the best prospects in baseball for speaks volumes...

Also, no one has mentioned the fact this rumor only came up after the Yankee/gonalez stuff, has anyone given thought to the possibility this is just to drive up the price or nix a deal NY might be trying to make? It wouldn't be the first time and with the fact the rumors seem so vague, perfectly timed, its not a huge need for Boston and include the guy the Yanks were said to have gotten last week...

I guess you have a point...but...he would be more sound CF then anything the astros have. I would like make to a SP and Jacoby Ellesbury trade for brade lidge...but not likely...and Whats the odds of like Lidge and prospect (if we have anything left) for Josh Beckett?

You were better off speaking with Cleveland about Westbrook and a prospect than to think of a deal with Boston. Now that the Tribe have signed Foulke and Borow though the need seems to be dimushed. Do remember this, it seems Boston is knocking on the door asking not the other way around, like I said a better deal could have been had and I imagine if Hou wanted to trade Lidge I think they would have by now.

Bos + Hou = no deal

Now Pitt is shoping Gonzo from the sound of it and you never know what Bowden will do... It could be just rumors but these two teams could also provide a fit if the Sox really want a closer.

What? Boston wants a closer?

Shocker there.

I have some views here but I'll hold them to myself or I might get called a racist.

Some people really value lidgle...almost a little too highly.

Since when do closers get trade for starting pitchers + the top prospect in aaa


Lidge is a damn closer. He has the stuff to be a very good one, but he is a closer. He is not worth the likes of Josh Beckett.

Re: Astros OF defense, Garner has stated more than once that he believes Burke will do a fine job in CF at MMP. People seem to forget Lance Berkman was able to pull it off (not spectacularly, I'll admit), and he's not exactly Mr. Defense--Burke is certainly better than he is in the field, and I'm willing to bet that Pence could manage it, too. Lee in LF isn't pretty, but I'm sure he can do at least as well as Wilson did--he's not as slow/fat as people want to make him out to be. Scott in RF might be the worst of the three, but even he's not terrible. Really, there #1 priority is finding a LHSP that's not Wandy Rodriguez. If they could get Lester for Lidge, then great (assuming Lester is ready for Spring Training), otherwise, I'd say they should throw Wandy out their for the first half of the season, when he's more successful, and hope Patton is ready mid-season (which is not out of the picture, Albers got the call-up last season from AA).

>>I think Cordero goes to Boston or Chicago, along with Ryan Church.>If he goes to Boston though it will be for Pena and Edgar Martinez.<<

I don't know why you would think that. Look at the Nat's needs before throwing names around. The Nat's don't need anymore outfielders and would only trade Church to fill needs. So they have no need for Pena. The Nat's need starting pitching.

And as far Theo possibly trading AA reliever E.Martinez, it's highly unlikely. I believe he'd rather trade Hansen...then E.Mat.


>>Why did the sox give up on foulke? If he were to return to his 04' style<<

Because he stinks and they waited 2 years for him to get back into form and he never did.

>>I would take Cordero over Lidge and it would probably only cost Wily Mo. That's not a bad deal considering that Drew, Crisp, and Manny make a pretty decent OF with a good #4 in Hinske. Cordero would be a good move for the Sox.<<

Another person that doesn't bother to look at the Nat's needs. They don't need anymore outfielders, they have plenty.
Hinske is their utility INFIELDER, for now and isn't their 4th OF. If Pena were to be traded, Murphy or someone we acquired would be the 4th OF.

>>3) The names you Sox fans are bringing up are classic "let's see if anyone else will take our disappointments off our hands" kind-of-thinking. If you want to acquire proven talent, you have to ante up with talent of somewhat equivalent expectations. Crisp, Hansen, Delcarmen... none of those qualify.<<

Perhaps you don't really know these players? Perhaps you are just reading the Stat's? But regardless you are Wrong.
Crisp is a very dynamic player and if his broken finger is fully healed, will prove his God given abilities in 07.
DelCarmen will be a stud of a middle relief to set-up pitcher. He has the stuff, he had a late season injury to his hand and he was fatigued, as most Rookies get.
Hansen is only 22 and has been rushed. He needs to spend a season in the minors and build up his confidence and mature some.

What exactly constitutes dynamic?

The ability to maybe have a .330 OBP IF he hits .300? The ability to throw grounders to third? The speed to steal 70 bases yet can't read a pitcher so dosent swipe 30? The fact that he can't handel pressure at all and struggles when in the spotlight? The fact that two teams have now gotten better after dropping him in the order?

Crisp is a good player, he'll hit 300ish maybe putting 15 over the wall and getting his share of 2b & 3b, make a few highlight reals in the OF and has a great attitude BUT don't expect him to lead your team, have a good OBP, correctly play everything hit to him or come through in the clutch.

I understand people not seeing many Cle games the past couple years but wasn't he hitting Mendoza-ish in Boston before the injury? hadn't he already been dropped to the 8 spot? Wasn't he considered a defensive downgrade to Damon even before he took the field? Isn't his claim to fame more his name than the stats he's been able to put up? I wish him the best and all, I have nothing against him at all and enjoyed him with the Tribe... I say this stuff as a realistic observer though. Dynamic, I don't think so.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Since when do closers get trade for starting pitchers + the top prospect in aaa
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

1. Why I have to keep coming back to this, I'm not sure... pay attention this time... the proposed trade you're addressing is NOT closer for starting pitcher + top prospect.

2. But to humor you, I'll address what I think is the heart of your question... these are the factors that could reasonably equate to a team making that trade:

a) Team X perceives exposure at a key place on the roster where others in their division have established, historically-successful players.

b) Team Y has an established player at that position who, at times in his career, has arguably been the best in the game, if not among the top 2 or 3... and who, even in what is considered a down year for him, coverted 30 of 36 save opps.

c) Team X has a high-caliber prospect who showed much promise in his first season as a starting pitcher, but who now appears to have been nudged out of the rotation and bound for Pawtucket, at least until injuries might occur; what's more, this player is, himself, coming back from a significant episode that could make his availability for the coming season iffy, if not spotty. In essence, the starter shows great promise, but there are significant asterisks that, in the short term, make the closer ahelluvalot more likely to impact more games than the starter.

(And without elaborating further, the rest of the trade, then, could be seen to help remedy each team's concerns about long-term impact.)

So, that's why Team X would make a deal with Team Y, with a closer and a starter being critical parts of the deal.

I'm sure your reaction is "that's bs." So be it.

"1. Coco crisp
2. Burke
3. Berkman
4. Lee
5. Scott
6. Ensberg
7. Everett
8. Ausmus
9. Pitcher"

Wait, wait, wait. Lee plays oufield, Berkman plays outfield (most of the time), Scott Plays outfield, Burke plays outfield, and Crisp plays outfield. Too many outfielders!!! Although the astros will probably put berkman at first again. But in order for all these guys to start, somebody's got to go.

willy, with regard to Crisp, I think the Indians fan knows the player pretty well... no further comment necessary.

With regard to Delcarmen, I'm not sure I need to comment when you yourself consider him middle relief material... that's kind of empty praise, brother.

And with regard to Hansen, I'll give that one to you... indeed, he's been rushed. He's definitely the most legit trade bait of the three you mention.

mely, it's been commonly understood since last season that Berkman is the first baseman, and only an emergency outfielder.

Burke will play CF in 07, but will take Biggio's place at 2B in 08... which is why interest in a prospect who would be ready in 08 is a vastly more interesting idea than obtaining an outfielder with asterisks like Crisp.

WillySox,
I do not think Pena is needed by the Nationals' but is one of Jim Bowden's favorites. He could serve as the 4th OF in D.C. if Church is traded, Casto is only ready for AAA, Escobar is hurt again, Snelling gets the LF job, Logan continues to not hit his weight, and Kearns locks up the RF job. All of those intagibles there are likely.
From the Nationals' perspective though SP is the main priority now. Young starting pitching, too.

So sturt, your saying that when Biggio retires.. Burke will take his place, and there will be a new young center fielder? Wow, the astros players seem to always be changing positions. Berkman, Biggio, Lamb..maybe. And I know you told me the brief on Berkman being an emergency outfielder, but I remember when he did always play outfield. Remember that Wily Mys catch he made a few years ago?

To anybody,
How do you link thing's? For instance if I wanted to shjow you a video clip of a rookie infielder making a great play, how would I link that to this? Youtube the best source for video clips?

Sturt, I wasnt even fucking talking to you. Do not try to talk down to me or anything like that...


Someone proposed a trade of Josh Beckett + a top prospect for lidge, that is utterly ridiculous. As is you're deal, it does not HELP either team anymore than it hurts them. There is no point to making that deal either. Although it is more plausible than trading Josh Beckett and a top prospect for a closer, it wont happen.

Geez, Beckett and a top prospect 4 Lidge?! No way, thats re-donk-culous. I wouldn't give a minor prospect 4 Lidge the way he's been playing. Come to think of it, it might be good cuz you could get him cheap now and he wouldn't have to vs. the Astro-killer, Phat Albert (Sorry
Astros fans, you lost my favor when you trade Jason Hirsh 4 Jennings, dumb is what that is) Anywho, I'm thinking that the best is obviously Cordero. You trade away Clay Bucholz, a solid middle relief man, along with Coco Crisp or Wily Mo Pena and you got a deal in my book, why not?

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Sturt, I wasnt even fucking talking to you. Do not try to talk down to me or anything like that... Someone proposed a trade of Josh Beckett + a top prospect for lidge, that is utterly ridiculous.
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GoBo:

1) Too much coffee? Are you always so sensitive? Ease up, bro.

2) I started to apologize, and then realized that this is a figment of your imagination... go back and read a little closer... NO ONE proposed Beckett plus a prospect, at least not in this thread.

I did misread it. Still shouldnt affect you as those comments were not directed towards you AT ALL. Yet you still decide you need to patronize me with your post.

lidge +prospect for Beckett is nt as bad as the other way around. It is stil definitely not ever going to be considered.

"Someone proposed a trade of Josh Beckett + a top prospect for lidge, that is utterly ridiculous."

If you are talking about what I said thats not correct and that was what he was referring to. If you will read the post I said Josh becket for lidge and a prospect. Like troy patton or something. Thats why he shot down his comment.

lidge +prospect for Beckett is nt as bad as the other way around. It is stil definitely not ever going to be considered.

I dont know...i think it all depends on clemens really. If Sox land clemens they would be willing to deal beckett...if astros land clemens they wouldnt deal lidge. If neither land clemens it would depend on how the farm kids do for the stros, and whatever option for sox as closer plays out.

That trade wont be decided any time soon...but it is feasible. Plus we would push for beckett because hes from spring, tx.

Beckett is not getting dealt. The sox are not hinging their offseason moves on Roger Clemens. They have repeatedly maintained they are NOT pursuing clemens. If he wants to finish in Boston, they would try to make it work.

Plus, Beckett is not getting dealt a year after we gave up annibal and hanley.

On top of that Beckett is signed for what? 3 more years at 10 a year? Yeah he had a dissapointing season but you must be including one hell of a prospect to think he would be traded for Brad Lidge.

what about trading say lidge, luke scott, and chris burke for beckett? that gives the sox their closer, an answer at 2nd base, and a pretty solid backup outfielder that they will most likely need at some point during the season. the stros have already have a pretty good cf prospect in the minors named josh anderson, who had a good year at AA last season. they could give him a shot in center during spring training willy taveras made a successful jump for AA to the bigs. if it doesn't work out then they can try scott/land/pence or resign aubrey huff to fight for the jobs in center and right

First, let's just get this out of the way...

Beckett = Disappointment.

Oops... GoBo beat me to it... awww well.

Bottom line, Epstein may not be marketing him, but I doubt the Astros front office gives a bleep.

And as if it even needs to be said, Boomshwa, you'd be lucky to get Lidge for Beckett straight up, my friend... let alone adding not one, but two (*gasp*) promising players that Purpura has penciled in to the starting line-up.

Finally to GoBo... does it occur to you that the only reason I directed that sinister, evil post toward you is because your post--absent the post that you thought you were addressing--left every impression that you were addressing MINE??? And given that, how is it that I didn't have every right to respond as I did???

Hey... there's no crying in baseball. Leave it.

the stros can afford it b/c they have brooks conrad who can replace biggio at 2nd next year, and they can let lane/pence/anderson duke it out for center in spring training. they can bring back huff and stick him in right and call it good for the position players. i just wonder whether or not the sox would accept that package for beckett.

i'm a stros fan by the way, not a sox fan. and that offer seems pretty respectable to me considering what we gave up for jennings

"Pretty respectable?"

Boom, my brother, how do you get that?

By most Astros' fans analysis (yes, there's an online poll that we did), the good guys overpaid slightly for Jennings, but not so much that it can't be worthwhile.

Beckett, on the other hand, would have loved to have had the year Jennings did in 06. And, you propose to give up our ace closer, PLUS Chris Burke, who by conventional wisdom is a young Biggio, PLUS Luke Scott, who spent the last half-season proving himself to be our first genuine power-hitting left-handed outfielder since... geez... I go back to 1970, and I can't even remember the last time we had one of those.

If Jennings was overpaying, such a trade for Beckett would be more like an Enron scandal.

hey i didn't say i liked the jennings deal, but in this market you have to give up the farm for pitchers...especially those who have an arm like beckett's. the sox got ripped off for him last year anyway; i bet they'd want a lot in return. we need another top of the rotation guy anyway. maybe they could substitute lane for scott in the deal. but we got a new pitching coach for a reason, and picture this:

oswalt/beckett/jennings/williams/albers or patton

idk if that'd be as good as 2 years ago, but that's pretty damn good if beckett can pitch the way he's capable of

It would be pointless for Boston to trade Beckett right now. He's at a all-time low point in value so they wouldn't be able to get any real value out of him. If they're so long on SP's they would be better off trading mid-season after he raises his value, otherwise, they just lost everything they gave up for him.

Uh why is it now Lidge for Beckett?

Why does it have to be Lidge who Boston is after (who is the biggest risk of the three listed) and why is it only players unwanted in Boston which are being talked about here?

I stated earlier that Hou could have had more which would have filled their needs better from other teams earlier in the offseason and didn't do it, why would they now just because Boston is knocking on the door?

1) Pinetar is correct... it isn't in Epstein's best interest to sell low with Beckett... I'm not sure, either, how Beckett got into the conversation.

2) It doesn't have to be Lidge who Boston is after, but he's been rumored in newspapers since November that he's one of the candidates, so it's not a baseless discussion.

3) Houston didn't fully understand their needs until after Pettitte made up his mind, and then, after the Jennings trade blossomed... everything has hinged on (a) getting a major bat (C Lee) and (b) filling out the rotation.

What's more, Boston *does* have some pieces that Houston would covet, and it's just a matter of waiting out Epstein to see if he would propose something Purpura could embrace, or if he would choose another direction.

My money is on a Pittsburgh deal, eventually, though it appears a third team appears to be necessary to pull that off.

I'd rather see the Sox get Mike Gonzalez, he's younger than Cordero and Lidge, and Lidge scares me. Anyone know what's wrong with him btw? I always hear it's a mental issue, but it looks like his mechanics are off.

Atl get Lester and Nady and Maholm or Duke

Pit gets Laroche and Davies and Crisp

Bos get Gonzalez and Salty

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