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Jays Offered Rios For Myers, Billingsley

According to Ken Rosenthal's latest column, the Blue Jays wanted either Brett Myers or Chad Billingsley plus Matt Kemp or Jonathan Broxton in return for right fielder Alex Rios.  Both clubs are known for their current starting pitching surpluses; the Phils actually have the need for an outfielder.

Not too many teams are looking to unload an AL-East-ready starter, so the Jays might have to lower their expectations.  Plenty of teams could make room for Rios as a right or center fielder.

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The Blue Jays are smokin' somethin' good to think they can get Brett Myers for Alex Rios. eesh.

Maybe they can ask if the M's are making Jose Vidro available.

Please...Billingsley AND Broxton or Kemp?

Would that ever happen?

Jays apparently are interested in David Wells.

Rios for maybe Kemp and a lesser pitcher than Billingsley could happen.

Also, how many years of arb does Myers have left? If it's 1 or 2, I don't see how that's a good trade for us.

what would you give up for a player who is going to hit .300+AVG, 25+HR's, 25+SB's??
i think Myers for Rios is extremely fair.

im tired of people saying Rios isnt that good and using the example of what he did this past season, the guy was amoung the league leaders when he went down with a frigin staff infection that put him in the hospital and almost cost him his leg.. and then when he did come back, guess what, he wasnt at the same weight/strength and it took him some time to get back into shape.
1st half stats..
.330 AVG, 89 H, 15 HR, 53 RBI and an all star selection.

Rios is going to be a star in the very near future, maybe even this season, bank it.

Rios is still not worth the likes of Billingsley AND broxton or kemp.

Kemp+lesser prospect...of course.


Fact is Rios MAY or may not be a 300/25/100 guy. Does he have potential? Yes, but it hasn't happened yet. People need to stop treating him as if he's been consistently producing these types of numbers

I was saying it wouldn't be fair for the jays to get myers, because he's a FA in 2 years. Rios has good power but has weaknesses too...he can chase bad pitches out of the zone, and then breaks his bat on his leg. His power may not be phenomenal, but it was always better than when he started in his first year with 0 homers, then 10. But the upside could be like high 30's, which would be facking saweet.

the Jays dont need another OF, they need the SP. the addition of the OF is because the Jays feel Rios is move valuable than just Billingsley.
using the what have you done in the majors route, then what has Billingsley done?
Billingsley has potential, yes, but so what has he shown in the majors?
7-4, 3.80 ERA, 1.62 WHIP, 9.2 H/9 IP, 5.90 K/9 IP. maybe Billingsley will become a star, but who knows he may not aswell.

Rios was on his way to his break out season at age 25 before he was derailed by an unfortunate circumstance.

We should keep him.

SpecialFNK check out foxsports it says we're interested in David Wells. But why?

I think our pitching is good. I really don't know who else we can add considering what's out there. Maybe a surplus starter will become availble for cheap when a team realizes they don't need them, like Jon Liber one year rental for 2 C+ prospects.

Bilingsley has tremendous value as of right now. He is easily right up there with Rios.

To say Broxton or Kemp is included in a deal for just Rios sounds ridiculous

Now if it's possible, then sorry for the doubt.

gobosox. apparently extremely unfair trades are offered all the time in mlb. That is nothing like a ttrade that should be scoffed at. Sure it may be in our favour somewhat, but its' not the most unrealistic idea ever. I think it would be a big haul for rios. But its weird with him, because its a coin flip, either your trading away the next 30 homer 100 rbi .300 average guy, or your trading away the next josh phelps. So that's why the trade is weird.

apparently the Jay's GM is a regular to some of the fantasy leagues out there...good lawd...what a one trade offer. Of course DePUDesta would have done it. Then again he was every other GM's boy-toy.

Since Rios has proved more...

Rios for Billingsley+AA prospect. I'd do that on either side.

If you want a cat, start out asking for a pony.

The Phillies are set besides their bullpen. There's not such a hole in their lineup that that trade would make sense. Spin that extra starter for a reliever.

Do the Phillies have much payroll flexibility? How much is their payroll and how much is their budget?

Why are GMs so afraid of trading people now? It seems like this is the slowest offseason for trades ever.

Just a side note, PECOTA thinks Rios won't break an .800 OPS this year. Myers is projected out to a 4.14 ERA, not too shabby when you consider PECOTA's standards. As a Phillies fan, I'd need Rios+ for Myers, probably Rios + Thigpen and League. Philly doesn't have to trade him, and if they do, they better get a great return.

I wouldn't give League and Thigpen for Myers. Nor would I give Rios straight up. Pipedream homerism. PECOTA is crap when predicting future breakout candidates.

I love Rios and really not a fan of Brett Myers. That said, 26 yr old SPs with number 2 stuff for a half year younger outfielder seems a little light. Phillies wouldn't move Myers without getting something for the farm.

rios for brett myers? thats crazy the phils should jump on that!!! if they dont they are crazy!!!

After what happened last year I can't imagine Myers would be too excited about having to come pitch in Boston several times a year. He would get booed with a venom usually reserved for Johnny Damon and Alex Rodriguez.

Myers would be fair for trade value

but asking for Kemp and Billingsley?

Toronto = New Drays

Myers is just going to end up in jail anyways. Phils might as well trade him.

What would the Jays OF look like if Rios is traded?

Reed Johnson, Wells, Adam Lind, no backups at all


Apprarently the deal was RIos for Myers straight up and was turned down by the PHillies...but Myers only has 2 more years of service time, so...hopefully it turns out like how the Jays could have gotten Ryan Howard for Ted Lilly (along with other teams for cheap).

Would a fair deal be Jeremy Accardo for Jon Lieber? I mean, the Jays would be giving up on 4 years of Accardo, is that worth it for them?

Guitar Hero,

I guess PECOTA is only valuable when it predicts good numbers for players you like, right? Rios now has 1,357 AB's, how much longer should we be waiting for the "big breakout"...?

I don't get why the Blue Jays are looking to trade Rios right now. I think an OF of Rios, Wells, Lind/Johnson is pretty damn good in every aspect, don't you guys? Sure, his value is high because of his partial breakout year last season, but it would be higher if they kept him and he continued to prove himself.

I also don't think that either of their proposed deals make much sense for the other team. I mean, both the Phils and Dodgers could use a potential stud in CF/RF, but they don't NEED him, especially not at the cost. If I was in charge in Philly or LA, I wouldn't trade the guys that Toronto asked for unless they were part of a package to acquire a superstar with a proven track record.

"Of course DePUDesta would have done it. Then again he was every other GM's boy-toy."

He traded MLB talent for prospects not the other way around. DePodesta is the reason that every other team is frothing at the mouth asking for Dodger prospects.

Manny couldn't get billingsley and broxton, Alex Rios isn't going to get shit. Don't bring up the contract sizes or you will be never be taken seriously again.

Rios for Billingsley AND Broxton? LOL! That really is funny. I will have to lose some respect for Ken Rosenthal if he thinks that is a possibility.

Yeah billingsley and broxto nis a bit much.

If they keep him and he breaks out, he'll still be a good trade chip as he'll have 3 years left. And why shouldn't I bring up contract status, thats the whole point in trades. Also, I think Marlins should be interested as Rios can play CF and they have some good young pitching...

I meant the difference in Rios, and Manny's contract. Points being 1. they are the LA Dodgers, and 2. what contracts are like these days Manny is a bargain.

This question is separate from the Rios/Billingsley rumors...Is there anyone else who thinks that Billingsley may be slightly overrated?

His rookie numbers were unimpressive (except ERA, especially considering he pitched in the NL and in a weak division AND in a pitcher's park. His stuff looked pretty darn good, but I certainly wasn't in awe over him.

the reason the Jays are willing to trade Rios is because they want/need SP, and Rios will bring in the most value. right now the Jays have Halladay/Burnett/Chacin/and a bunch of below average starters like Marcum/Janssen/McGowan/Thomson/ect ..and IMO that wont be enough to make any type of run at the playoffs in a division with NY and BOS. ive seen plenty of talk about how the Jays want to make a playoff run this season, but thats not going to happen unless they get an upgrade in the starting rotation. Rios is replaceable. right now i woul assume Rios would be batting 2nd, but he could be replaced at the 2nd spot with either Overbay or even Aaron Hill. id like to see Hill bat 2nd, i think his OBP would be really good there.
..as for this comment__ how much longer should we be waiting for the "big breakout
Rios was on his way to that big breakout last season. up until June27- .330 AVG, 89 H, 15 HR, 53 RBI

i dont think its unreasonable for the Jays to be asking for alot in a Rios trade proposal, however i can also understand why other teams dont want to give up such pitching talent because i do think it is easier to replace an OF than it is a SP.

i know people are not going to agree with this, but in a trade of Rios for Myers ..that "could" be more beneficial to Phily, if Rios does continue to breakout the way he was until he had his staff infection where as the Jays only have 2 seasons of Myers in the AL East. it could be arguable, but pitchers dont always pitch the same in the AL as they have in the NL.

Brett Myers has potential Cy Young written all over him... He hit 200 ks in 05 for the first time... He had 191 ks last year.... He went 12-7.... He has averaged over 8ks per 9 over the last 2 years...But the big thing to remember is that he hasnt peaked yet.....He has the potential to be a Cy Young award winner one day....Im not just saying that cause he is a Phillie.. Im saying that because it's true... The guy has nasty stuff and an amazing future ahead of him... If Riccardi pulled off a Rios for Myers deal I would be crying till spring training.... Throw in McCowan or Brandon League and maybe...... not Rios straight up though....

This is an interesting little tidbit though....

They are reporting the Phillies the leaders to sign Lawrence which makes me even more nervous...

They're a lot of precursors here... The Brett Myers contract saga where he is unhappy with the Phillies one year offer.... The consistent Jon Lieber trade talks... Myers beating his wife last year.... The Myers for Rios trade talks and now the Brian Lawrence potential signing.... It's quite eerie and gives me an unsettling feeling..

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/299999_mari17.html

ive seen that in other places aswell, that Myers could be a potential cy young winner.. thas nice and all, but lets remember Rios has the same type of potential in hitting.

if Phily fans are not interested in Rios for Myers, but would consider Rios and McGowan for Myers, sign the papers, id do that in a heartbeat. McGowan has had potential but he hasnt really shown anything at the major league level.

im not sure ive said it here, cant remember since ive posted about this in so many different places.. but i can understand why Phillies want more than Rios, because as much potential Rios has he really has only shown that for one season(arguably because it was technically half a season) ..but the potential for something big is there.

im also biased towards Rios because im a Jays fan, so maybe im a little more higher on Rios than some non Jays fans.

must be..... Myers for the last three out of four seasons has been a stud on the rise.. the stats dont lie.... The one exception being 2004 when he slipped a little... But for the last two seasons he has been the ace of the Phillies staff without exception... Brett Myers is worth a ton more to the Jays than Alex Rios every will be.... and Brett Myers is worth a ton more to the Phillies than Alex Rios ever would be..... Maybe Alex Rios is a great young hitting prospect, but you don't trade young pitching in todays baseball without getting a blow me away offer....... like Jason Jennings....

Yeah billingsley and broxto nis a bit much.

If they keep him and he breaks out, he'll still be a good trade chip as he'll have 3 years left. And why shouldn't I bring up contract status, thats the whole point in trades. Also, I think Marlins should be interested as Rios can play CF and they have some good young pitching...

Posted by: Guitar Hero | January 17, 2007 at 10:39 AM


The marlins wont trade any of their top 4 starters and wont talk of them in trades according to all reports out of south florida. They also supposedly dont like Rios for CF according to Kevin Baxter their ESPN/Herald writer that covers them.

So rule them out.

baseballfan 79, a lot of what teams say isn't necessarily the truth. THey could say this or that to downplay trade value or for PR. They say their top 4 starters are untouchable, but you never know. I think BJ Upton may be a better deal for them, but giving up just Nolasco is too low and the Devils Rays aren't falling for it. That being said, Rios made 1 bad flub and gave up a homerun in the year, so his defensive intelligence is iffy from what I've seen. But thats something that can be worked on, his raw tools are great. He's quick and tall and has a cannon of an arm. Several defensive metric rated him high...the Bill James handbook this year rated him as the 2nd best right fielder, I believer, behind Ichiro the great.

Remember that Myers has 2 years of srevice time and Rios 4 years.

Also, I wouldn't even touch thorwing in McGowan. Last year he was ranked ahead of Jered Weaver on BA top 100, for example. He has struggled because he had diabetes that they wrongly diagnosed and TJ just a couple of years ago. Now he has healed. He has power stuff and some other good pitches. If he clicks, and pitching in the NL, he could all of a sudden be a new ace with several years of service time left. There's just no need to throw in McGowan as a side thought now because he's not out of options, so consider that a moot point...we're keeping him to see if he breaks out in one more year, which could happen perhaps at the end of the year before next season. That's selling low. I would take Jon Lieber from you guys considering you want to unlaod him and we don't have to give up RIos. Everyone' happy. We get another starter hopefully for cheap in a deal cause he would'nt be that great. We have a few prospects who could be great relievers in the NL. You get 6 years of service time for that. But League and McGowan are untouchable. For some reason I had a feeling this will happen: Rosario and another c prospect for Lieber. I wouldn't do that cause I think Rosario will be good for us and way too good for you guys considering his service time left, just for 1 year of Liebs.

FNK, its ridiculous when comparing Billingsley and Rios to only look at their major league resume. Billingsley has 400 excellent innings pitched in the minors, while Rios has had a very lackluster minor league career. Just like its ignorant to not consider Rios second half injury, its ingorant to ignore his suckitude prior.

Not happening guitar hero.... If im Pat Gillick, im not budging unless Dustin McGowan or Brandon League are paired with Alex Rios........Otherwise, no deal... The Jays came to the Phils looking to acquire Myers... It's not like the Phils are trying to deal Myers.....The Phillies are in the drivers seat..... Plus, the Phillies aren't letting Lieber go for Francisco Rosario..... Notta chance lol..... With the market being the way it is for starting pitching, no one on the face of the earth would do a deal like that....

Yeah well I'm partially telling you whats gonna happen. McGowan and League are not being traded period. Rosario possibly. And its not too far fetched really. You guys got Freddy Garcie for 2 B prospects. Rosario is half way there. But McGowan and League are not being paired with anybody in a trade for Brett Myers who has 2 years of service time left and...how good would he be in the AL East anyway.

Wow.... When did Gio Gonzalez become a "B" prospect ??? Gavin Floyd was touted for a long time as a can't miss pitcher with ace potential.... He lost his confidence along the way, but he still possesses a mid 90s fastball and one of the best curveballs in baseball today.... All he needs to do is regain his control and his confidence...

And believe me when I say, I dont want the Phillies to trade Brett Myers for anyone other than that Johan guy :P .... So, the Blue Jays can keep McGowan and League as well as Rios.... We will keep Brett..... Deal !?! lol

Yeah, well I'm partially telling you whats going to happen too. The phils are not going to trade their #1 pitcher for a guy who has had 1/2 a good season.

baseballfan 79, a lot of what teams say isn't necessarily the truth. THey could say this or that to downplay trade value or for PR. They say their top 4 starters are untouchable, but you never know. I think BJ Upton may be a better deal for them, but giving up just Nolasco is too low and the Devils Rays aren't falling for it. That being said, Rios made 1 bad flub and gave up a homerun in the year, so his defensive intelligence is iffy from what I've seen. But thats something that can be worked on, his raw tools are great. He's quick and tall and has a cannon of an arm. Several defensive metric rated him high...the Bill James handbook this year rated him as the 2nd best right fielder, I believer, behind Ichiro the great.

Posted by: Guitar Hero | January 17, 2007 at 12:45 PM

I understand what you are saying dude but they would be linked by some sources to possible deals with the Blue Jays. They have not been all offseason and the only time asked have been flat denials. They are looking more for a cheap younger player that is pre arby like as you suggested upton. Rios is already arby eligable. That is counter to the marlins philosphy and system normally. I do concur they need to offer more then Nolasco for BJ Upton but I could see them offering something like Aaron Thompson or Hernandez with Nolasco to entice the Drays. A possible 2-3 starter for the future along with Nolasco (3-4 type/closer) would be a good pick up for the drays for a player that has no player or position in the organization right now and for the forseeable future.

But from all I have been told by my sources and other linkable sources the Fish arent interested in Rios and havent talked to the Drays since the Gm Meetings (before the winter meetings).

To me this situation really depends on whether the dodgers have contacted the jays to try to acquire rios, or if rios was shopped around and the dodgers just got word. If the dodgers came to the jays for Rios, the Billingsley and and Kemp seems fair. If it was the other way around, not so much. If the dodgers went out looken for rios, then they should expect to overpay, because thats just the way it is.

james, your an idiot, the big breakout already came for rios. I seriously dont understand how people who fancy themselves baseball fans can honestly not know that Alex Rios was lighten it up until his staph infection. That and the fact he is a 5 tool player, that can play all 3 outfield positions, and he is 25, Ill take him over Myers (and i love myers)

Arodsucksatlife, how can you say dont bring up the contract sizez? Thats a fucking huge reason right there dude. Thats like saying Wakefield is better then Johan if you take away Johans slider, fastball and changeup.I dont know about you, but if I had my choice of Rios and Ramirez, RIGHT NOW, theres absolutely no way I take Manny. Not even a chance. Rios is younger, cheaper, better at defense, faster, more athletic, and still improving. How can you just take all that and say it doesnt matter when determining a players trade value. Maybe its you who should never be taken seriously again

If mannys contract is a bargain, then that makes rios' contract a bargain, plus 20 million, for a better athlete whos younger, and will play defense. I cant say this for sure but i also dont think Rios ever had a temper tantrum and sat out for 2 weeks becuz the official scorer took away one of his hits

Exactly. You can keep Myers. As for Lieber, we'll see when he's traded near the spring what kind of return he gets. I bet its not much. Not anywhere close to what Freddy Garcia got. You guys simply have to unload him and are dealing from a position of weakness. Yes a lot of team can use a pitcher, but they are obviously asking too much for someone who is...meh. No way I'd give up OUR best bullpen guy in League for him, or even a normal bullpen guy like Accardo. McGowan will be good one day so I'll keep him too. I understand if Myers is your best pitcher over the last few years (over a horrible rotation usually, its only much better this year). But guess what, I bet that a deal of Rios/McGowan was turned down for him too. Wow I just looked at his stats. Myers isn't even THAT good. No way he's a future Cy material. Sure I agree Rios may not be the real deal, but Myers would let up 40 homeruns in the AL East. He has had two good seasons....he remind me of Gil Meche.

I think Blue Jays Fans shouldnt sleep on Accardo. I was so pissed when he got traded because i had him on my NL only keeper team and he gets traded as soon as it looks like they are going to give him a shot at closing. This guys stuff looks nasty, and with a chance he can be a good setup/ closer

Gil Meche ??? Ok Guitar Hero... You have officially lost all credibility in my eyes... 40 homeruns ??? If you throw Brett Myers out in the AL East.... He is better than every pitcher on the Jays staff minus Halladay.... He is better than all the pitchers on the Red Sox minus Schilling ( Matzusaka is an unknown)...... and I take Myers over Beckett ( right now).... He is better than everyone on the Orioles staff... Kazmir is better than Myers.... I take Myers over everyone on the Yankees minus Wang...

He's a number two pitcher on every team in the AL East other than the Orioles where he would be the staff ace.. get outta
here with that Gil Meche crap... Thank for the laugh though....


By the way... The Phils will keep Lieber if they don't get suitable compensation for him...

"Lieber could be traded at some point for bullpen help, but so far the Phillies have found nothing close to what they consider a fair offer for him. Gillick said they will enter spring training with six starting pitchers in Clearwater, Fla., and said unless they get a fair offer they would open the season with six - which means somebody might move to the bullpen."
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/16476213.htm

One more thing... Guitar Hero.... You are really making yourself look ignorant when talking about Brett Myers... you obviously know nothing about the kid...

Do research, THEN post...

First - we are not tarding Myers

Second - his numbers are totaly distorted by lack of run support, blown saves and a hitter friendly park.

I would want a pakcage thats STARTS with Rios and League THEN a prospect (McGowan, Ricky Romero or Magee). We could throw a REAL B prospect (Brito or even Maloney) back at Toronto if you like.

But I have no use for Thigpen. Keep him.

I just as soon keep Myers.

We have payroll flexibility if Gillick wants it.

when did Brett Myers become an ace? hes a good pitcher and id pencil him in no higher than a #3 pitcher in the AL.
look what happend to Beckett when he went from pitching in the NL to coming over the AL, his numbers got worse.. whos to say the same thing wont happen to Myers? what makes Myers different than almost every other NL pitcher that comes over to the AL?
naming Myers as a cy young candidate is like me naming Rios for an MVP.
Myers has gotten better the last 2 seasons compared to his 2004 season. whos to say Myers wont come to the AL and be very similar to what he was in 2004?
i do think Myers is good, but hes not great.

i understand that Phily fans have high hopes for Myers, but there are the same high hopes for Rios.. but you dont see anyone naming Rios for an MVP, so lets not start throwing out Myers name for a cy young just yet.

as for Myers pitching in a hitter friendly park, last year his numbers were better at home than on the road.
i also agree that Myers has only had 2 good seasons, and those are his previous 2 seasons. what happend in 04? and he also looked to have average numbers in 2003/2002.

Not that I am particularly high on Myers or think he is really good at anything but beating his wife and most likely going to jail for it.

But, the NL east did outscore the AL East last year. They did that despite having a pitcher hit instead of a DH as well.

I think the AL East "is the greatest" BS is really over-rated here.

That said, I think Myers would be a 2-3 in the AL East just as he is a 2-3 in the NL East. He is a relatively young power pitcher with the potential to strike out a large number of batters. But he does have injury and huge personality issues.

Rios is a young potential stud OF with injury questions and questions if it was a fluke or not for the 1st half of last year (believe it or not I dont care really).

Rios for Myers is a pretty fair deal

Now Rios for Billingsley (will be a 1-2) and Kemp (5 tool player) would be too much by a good amount.

Personally I think Billingsley is worth more currently then Myers.

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