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Just heard of the Indians' proprietary DiamondView system (hat tip to Will Carroll). The article is from 2003 but it's really cool to read about the team's huge confidential database. There's quite a bit of info concerning the Jim Thome situation, where the Indians would've loved to keep him but going to six years just couldn't work. Four years later, it's clear they made the right decision.
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"There's quite a bit of info concerning the Jim Thome situation, where the Indians would've loved to keep him but going to six years just couldn't work. Four years later, it's clear they made the right decision."
It is?
He's had OPS's of .958, .977, .712, 1.015 & .956. in his five years since he left Cleveland. Granted his '05 year was a waste do to injury but that happens to young players too. He'd also be going into the last year of his deal next year. His presense would have blocked Ben Broussard at first base...is that a bad thing?
Posted by: chicagobubbleblog | September 25, 2007 at 12:54 PM
You can't write off his lost season as "injuries happen to all players." As an old skills first baseman, there was a decent chance of it. His presence would've blocked Hafner at DH and ate up a ton of money.
Posted by: Tim Dierkes | September 25, 2007 at 01:08 PM
This just shows us how little we blogosphere pundits really know about what happens in MLB front offices.
Posted by: IowaCubs | September 25, 2007 at 01:12 PM
Thome was a firstbaseman when he was with Cleveland how does that block Hafner a DH. Thome could play first Hafner DH. Thome #'s are better than the collective #'s the myriad of firstbasemen the Indians ran out there. Granted he did cost more but his salary, IMO, wasn't oppressive and he's still more dangerous than the vast majority of hitters on major league roster.
Posted by: chicagobubbleblog | September 25, 2007 at 01:31 PM
He would be the most expensive player on the team by a bunch. Making it harder for the Indians to extend Hafner, and pretty much impossible to extend Sabathia.
Posted by: ArodSucksAtLife | September 25, 2007 at 03:10 PM
chicagobubbleblog,
His salary would have be a huge disaster for the Tribe. This isnt a team that can just throw money away.
Being able to play 1st would have lasted for about 2 years. After that he would have had to of been a DH. But that doesnt even matter, it’s not like both players would have been on the same team anyway. Hafner was traded for days after Thome left; Pronk was brought in as a replacement and nothing more.
So who would you rather have Pronk at a combined 3.7M over 4 years or Thome at and average of 15M? (Thome about 50M + 10M signing bonus)
And remember, look at those years:
2003 118 OPS+ Pronk vs 151 OPS+ Thome
2004 158 OPS+ Pronk vs 148 OPS+ Thome
2005 170 OPS+ Pronk vs 083 OPS+ Thome
2006 183 OPS+ Pronk vs 156 OPS+ Thome
Hafners rookie year was the only one which he produced less and has made somewhere in the range of 6% of Thome over that time
And Tim, thanks for the find!!!
Posted by: darkstar1661 | September 25, 2007 at 03:14 PM
Thome's contract would have been a disaster if he didn't produce which he has minus one year.
I noticed you left out this years OPS+ #'s Pronk 119, Thome 146.
Posted by: chicagobubbleblog | September 26, 2007 at 08:20 AM
Chicagobubbleblog,
No, Thomes contract would have been hindering to the rest of the team and absolutely pointless since the similar to better production was found at 6% of the cost. Add to it the fact that Thome would not have been with the Indians but maybe 1 more year compared to Hafner being here for like the next 5… Well how in the world can you ever justify Thome over Pronk?
And this years slump from Hafner doesn’t really matter, leading up to this point there is no justification what so ever to have gone with Thome. Jim currently on this team would also mean that we wouldn’t have such guys as Westbrook, Blake, Byrd, Loften, etc as they would not have been able to afford them. Jims production would have been for a team well out of playoff contention so who cares if he would have produced this year?
Besides, I still feel a whole lot better with Hafner at the plate even in this off year than I would with Thome. For his entire career Thome has pretty much been SO, HR, Single or BB (ie a kinda empty SLG) where Hafner isn’t the HR hitter and rather gets his higher SLG% by finding gaps for high 2B rates as well and even being able to hustle for a triple every now and then. Add to it the extremely low SO in comparison, but just as many BBs...
Then you have to realize that Thome did hit the DL once again this year and will probably be hurt and regressing even more again in 08 while still making more than Pronk…
I mean look at that, an Indians fan can give reason after reason after reason why they are happy they didn’t sign Thome, but youre disagreeing? Shoot even a RedSox fan said it was smart… Not sure what you want to prove, but really there is just nothing to say that having Thome on this team would have been a good thing, and it wasn’t even the Indians choice that he left anyway!
The Indians offered a more than generous offer (including a lifetime position with the club paying a great salary upon retiring and a freakin statue at the stadium) but the Phillies decided they wanted to offer upwards of 20Million more. BTW, they were wanting out from under it within like 2 years. They ended up paying 63+M for 2 years of semi-Thome like numbers and a horrendous year. I'm more than glad he didnt take the Tribes offer...
Posted by: darkstar1661 | September 26, 2007 at 03:44 PM