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« Rockies Sign Torrealba, Herges | Main | Johan Santana Rumors »
Marlins Toy With Angels, Dodgers
Angels owner Arte Moreno isn't happy with the way the Marlins dealt with his club on the Miguel Cabrera negotiations. Twice already the Angels thought they had deals only to have the Marlins come back at the last minute asking for more. Moreno also believed this happened to the Dodgers and the Fish are playing the two teams off each other.
None of this seems outside the realm of negotiation; it's just curious that Moreno went public with it. Perhaps that's strategy, his way of telling the Marlins he won't take any more BS.
Moreno said the Marlins' demand is four players. Three of them must be Major Leaguers and two pitchers. If the Angels are to give up two good young pitchers, they won't also include both Howie Kendrick and Jeff Mathis.
It hasn't really been said but it seems like the Cabrera negotiations may stall now unless the Marlins come down a bit. Or maybe some other dominoes will fall at the Winter Meetings and a team will get desperate.
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Surely the Angels have the depth to pull this off if the Marlins settle a little. I think there are other potential third baseman, granted not with Cabrera's numbers...But doesn't the addition of hunter maybe make up for someone like Atkins? Weren't the Rockies interested in moving him for pitching? Seems like a fit...young guy, good shape, lots of upside (*minus the inflated colorado stats)...just a thought.
Posted by: OCSportsGeek | November 28, 2007 at 07:29 PM
I don't blame the Marlins at all. The Angels need Cabrera MUCH more than the Marlins need to get rid of him. Why not do what they can to get the best deal possible?
Posted by: Adam H. | November 28, 2007 at 07:31 PM
I have to register to read that article? Screw it. Is it pretty much down to just the Angels and Dodgers?
Entrenched 3B
Yankees: A-Rod
Red Sox: Lowell
Mets: David Wright
Cubs: Aramis Ramirez
Padres: Kouzmanoff/Headley
Rockies: Atkins
Not enough talent:
O's
A's
Cards
'Stros
Not enough payroll:
Royals
Brewers
Rays
Pirates
Who's left?
Blue Jays: Talent?
Twins: Payroll?
Giants: Talent?
Reds: Payroll?
Mariners: Beltre?
White Sox: Talent?
Indians: Payroll?
Tigers: Inge?
Rangers: Payroll?
Dbacks.....
Posted by: TrueCubsFan | November 28, 2007 at 07:49 PM
The Rockies don't want to move Atkins anymore because not only has Ian Stewart's stock dropped but they are going to try him at 2B.
Posted by: TrueCubsFan | November 28, 2007 at 07:52 PM
Arte should tell the Marlins where to go and focus on getting another bat - perhaps Tejada. Won't cost nearly as much in prospects.
Posted by: halofan15 | November 28, 2007 at 09:26 PM
Maybe this is the White Sox's chance to sneak in with a Josh Fields, Gio Gonzalez, Ryan Sweeney, Jerry Owens, Donald Lucy offer. It wouldn't be better than the offers from the LA teams, but word is the Dodgers are becoming more hesitant to give up their young guys now, and if the Angels are frustrated with how the negotiations are going, maybe the Sox could get em. Or the Giants with a Tim Lincecum, Jonathan Sanchez and others package. Seems like if their were a dark horse team to get him it'd be the White Sox or the Giants. Why else would the Sox shed payroll (Garland) and then turn around and not sign Hunter, decide Rowand is asking for too much, and then just sit on their hands. Kenny Williams is up to something, maybe he's planning on giving this another go with the hopes of lockin up Miggy longterm
Posted by: scribbletone | November 28, 2007 at 09:27 PM
I'm glad. It appears that the asking price will come down some.
At the beginning of the process the Red Sox and Yankees both needed a 3B - now both positions are filled. This really is a two team competition with the Dodgers and Angels. With the Dodgers getting cold feet the Angels might be in the driver seat again.
It would be awesome to trade Mathis/Santana or Saunders/+ another player not named Kendrick.
I also would be hesitant to do a Wood/Adenhart/Santana or Saunders deal. At first that seemed reasonable considering what the Dodgers could offer. Maybe now we can keep one top prospect + Kendrick.
Posted by: bjsguess | November 28, 2007 at 09:44 PM
I really doubt the Dodgers are in the race for Miguel Cabrerra. Frank McCourt and Ned Colletti have been talking about keeping the kids. The Angels look like they want to change things from the Stoneman era. So now they are making some moves. The Dodgers on the other hand, they seem to like they regret how they spent money last year, and now they are gonna stand pat.
Posted by: jskohl | November 28, 2007 at 10:09 PM
Actually, I think the DarkHorse here has to be Cleveland. They were rumored to be in the interested 5 to start and they have more than a few pieces as spare parts that the Fish have been very interested in. Add to it the fact that Payroll could very well go up to the 80ish M range after the playoff appearance and previous planned increase… I could see a guy like Lee or DavidD also probably being included in the deal to give the Fish some more Vet-Presence with Ability/Pop on the cheap. Lee specifically would make it much, much easier to also trade Willis… Guys like Barfield/Marte/BenFrancisco/FrankieG/Choo/Shooppach/Lofgren/Laffey//Sower/Crowe etc could all easily be included with Cleveland not even really creating a hole (I do think the sheer size of the package and ability of the other guys will keep Miller out of it though)
SF is another dark horse, but no way do they give up both Linc & Sanchez in a deal. The team is reluctant to trade even 1; both for one expensive guy who may or may not even fill the 3B hole doesn’t seem logical. Then, they don’t really have anyone else to offer in the package ~ and they have holes at 2B, SS, 3B and in the OF themselves so trading what few guys they have for the IF will hurt more thand Cabrera will help…
Also, I’m not sure I see the ChiSox in it at all though. A) Guillen loves the D-ability guys ~ something Miguel is not. B) Trading Garland didn’t really decrease payroll much at all when you consider the raises to everyone else and OC coming in. Their current roster is running real close to 100M now (well, 107M when you factor the 7 from Philly). I’m under the understanding they don’t really want to increase the salary too much, but adding M.Cabrera could put them as high as 110M (117 with Philly money). I kind of feel they have been dragging their feet on Hunter/Rowland/etc more because they know signing such a guy would put them at that mark ~ and that’s for a position they really, really need filled. Cabrera wont fill a position they really need but still make the salary jump that high. They would still need to find a CF, maybe a 2B, and possibly even a LFer if Fields has to be included… The fit doesn’t seem to be there much at all in my eyes…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | November 29, 2007 at 01:09 PM
I think Cleveland matches up talent wise. They do have some very attractive young players. I just don't know if they want to commit to a $20m+ player over 6-8 years.
Their model to date has been to develop talent, buy out arbitration and FA years at a discount, and hope that the talent improves.
One more caveat, they are going to be forced to make a very difficult decision on CC. If they sign him long-term he will be looking at $20m+. If they decide they can't afford him he will need to be replaced. Today, just getting an innings eater is $10m/year. If they don't have in-house talent to replace CC they will need to pony up.
At the end of the day, can Cleveland afford both Miggy and CC at over $20m each/year? If the answer is no, which one would you rather have assuming cost will be comparable but with Miggy you will need to move talent?
Posted by: bjsguess | November 29, 2007 at 02:47 PM
Well BJ...
Agree 100% on what they have done to get to this point, but they have also told us the entire way “when we need pieces, the plan will enable us to be able to add them in the future” ~ well stuff like that, it’s just a paraphrase…
So, the thing is that Sizemore/Hafner/Martinez/Westbrook/Peralta are all locked up rather longterm now, so their amounts wont be questions in the future. Then you have guys like Garko/FrankieG/Carmona/Etc who you can reasonably speculate a price on when they reach Arb in a few.
What the team does have is this though, CC's current 10M-ish wouldn’t be paid on top of it and Byrds current 10M-ish being removed form the books for 2009. Considering they feasibly have somewhere close to 10-20M now open + about another 20M between those two off the books ~ it works out. Plus, we are talking Cabrera money in 2010 and CC money starting in 09 if 08 isnt replaced. With everyone else locked up rather cheap and the normal increases on top of probable playoff money and more fans showing up in the reg-season because the team is winning again ~ well, they could easily see a 90-100M payroll if things continue at this pace (much like they did in the late 90s before they had to go into rebuild mode). On top of it, guys like DavidD, Michaels, Blake, Nixon, JoBo, etc wont be needed once the current players become Vets themselves ~ that’s even more cash off the books.
I imagine they are taking all of this stuff into account, and we know they are not exactly a stupid group. If they can feasibly come up with a scenario like I outline or feel that Carmona/Miller/Sowers/Laffey/Lofgren/etc (whoever isnt traded) will be enough to make up for CC anyway ~ then they could be right there as the Darkhorse who gets it done.
The only problem I see is if they feel Cabrera wouldnt be able to do LF and instead need to be either a 1B/DH. Then its a prob because Pronk is at DH, but I guess Garko could even be included in the deal or sent elseware if they think along those lines… If they really want him, like they expressed they might, then it can all feasibly be worked out…
As an Indians fan, I really hope they don’t do it! I would much, much rather trade talent for Jason Bay or someone like that. But, I see what could be going forward and don’t see Miguel a horrible fit if they think he will hold up ok physically (I’ll take their word on that over mine…)
Posted by: darkstar1661 | November 29, 2007 at 04:05 PM