Mailbag: Glavine, Crisp, Livan

Since when is it the Red Sox job to fill racial quotas? This isnt civil service. Last time I checked, the team has plenty of minorities. I guess Big Papi isnt black enough.

I'm not too worried about it, since the Mets will do one of two things with the pick: 1) Botch it completely. 2) Select a kid with talent, only to piss him away a couple years down the road in a deal to acquire an aging veteran.

Plus, it's obvious that the Braves are aiming to win this season. The 18th overall pick is the price they have to pay.

people shouldn't base their views on a lack of african american players either. manny, lugo, dice-k and okajima name a few more minorities off the top of my head. they had willy mo pena and julian tavarez last year. they have to be right around league average

I think that C.C. put it all into perspective in that article that Tim linked:

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One of the reasons for baseball’s decline among African Americans may be that struggling inner-city families can’t afford the necessary equipment. Aluminum bats, balls, gloves and uniforms cost money, a fact that pushes kids toward basketball because all you need to play is a ball and a hoop.

In addition, because there are so few African-American major league stars, kids don’t identify with them the way they do with today’s top NBA and NFL players.

“They don’t see us playing,” Sabathia said. “When I grew up, I was a pitcher and I liked the Oakland A’s. I liked Dave Stewart. I was a big left-handed hitter, so I liked Dave Parker. You had Barry Bonds playing in San Francisco, guys like that. There were a lot of guys to look up to.”

If he was a kid today, would Sabathia be playing baseball?

“No way,” he said. “That’s the truth.”
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And while both blacks and Latinos are considered "people of color", it's apparent that Latinos like David Ortiz - even though they are racially black - are being termed Latinos rather than black.

Latino is an ethnicity - not a race. There are Latinos of black/Negroid (to use the scientific term for the race) origin. There are Latinos of white/Caucasian origin. There are many, many Latinos of mixed race out there - in many different ratios.

So, just because David Ortiz is Latino does not preclude him from also being black.

Yeah, history would show anyone that Dominicans are descended from Africans, brought to the region as slaves, and Spanish inhabitants of the region. This is a silly argument. And I hate the Sox. There is no racism here people.

That lack of African American players if Coco is traded is highlighted by the history of blatant racism in Boston. With many famous examples of not taking players because they were black, well after Jackie Robinson broke the colour barrier. The team isn't exactly 25 blonde hair, blue eyed good ole boys. I think this current ownership group drafts, and trades for talent with a complete disregard for colour, but it's just more of a noticable issue because of Boston's history.

JR, I too have been curious about the whole specification of 'African American' in baseball. While it is a story to monitor, it appears as though it is blown out of proportion. I am known to make rather radical Devil's advocate responses, but if the problem in baseball is a lack of African American's, why is the problem in football and basketball that there are too few caucasians? Or, too really throw this out there, why does the caucasian Canadian community not band together with Pete Rose to get a more diverse league?

That said, I think we are beyond a time in professional sports where race is a deciding factor in playing time and stardom.

The way I see it, the decline in African American players is due to the increase in Latinos and Japanese players.

Roster spots are given out based on talent, not race/ethnicity. Both black and white players lost roster spots as the number of players from Latin America and Japan increased. Expecting the number of African American players to stay constant as the sport becomes more international is silly.

The stat I think would be most meaningful - what percentage of American players are African Americans. I would expect that number to be right about the same as the overall US population, and if it's not, then you can question things.

The theory on getting Dukes at all was that Young would be mentoring him, so I don't think Young is going to be going anywhere.

You can throw the population argument out the window. There are obviously less blacks playing baseball now and we know for a variety of reasons.

But Boston trading Coco has nothing to do with race.

Hopefully some of the recent exposure and changes will reverse the trends.

It's amazing how african americans are allowed to speak up about how there is no african americans in baseball. I'd love to see a caucasian such as David Lee, Dirk Nowitzki or Steve Nash speak up about how there is no white people in basketball. Than it would turn into a racist comment wouldn't it?

The fact remains is that black people are good at basketball so they populate the sport. Hispanics are good at baseball so they populate their sport and white people are amazing at hockey so they populate that sport.

Amen yanksfan. You hit the nail right on the head.

Shook1z,

I think you are going a little far with that. I think its more of a matter of what the population grows up playing. Most Canadians grow up playing hockey, while other countries don't nearly as much, so the NHL is dominated by Canadians. Most Latinos grow up playing baseball, so MLB has lots of them. Most black kids in America grow up playing basketball, so the NBA is filled with blacks. Its more of a matter of what the athlete focuses the most time on, not just what races are good at.

even though i despise the red sox, i doubt the organization is racist. big papi is black he may be of hispanic ethnicity but his race is black...if you never heard big papi speak you would say hes a black man just based on appearence...

Does anyone dispute that on average, black people are more athletic than white people? They are faster runners, higher jumpers, etc. - I don't think it's being racist to point this out.

I believe that - again, on average - blacks would be the best at whatever sport they choose to play.

And I wholeheartedly agree with Sabathia - they play basketball because there's no equipment. Baseball is a very difficult sport to play as a kid (and even as an adult). You need a high minimum # of people, where you can play 1 on 1 basketball (or even just shoot around by yourself - the equivalent in baseball would cost you $50/hour at the batting cage).

To be honest, I can't recall more than 5 or 10 times I've EVER played baseball or softball outside of an organized league.

There is an excellent organization in NY called Harlem RBI (http://www.harlemrbi.org/) which provides fields and equipment for inner city kids and promotes education through baseball. It's growing and is very successful.

Unfortunately, it seems like programs like these (which are not cheap) are what's needed to get poorer kids playing baseball.

And even more unfortunately, as we know, blacks make up a disproportionate amount of poor families. That's the essence of the problem.

Bobo, I agree. I think its also culture though...even if blacks had the most money out of any race, I doubt they would be playing a ton of hockey.

I also agree about blacks being generally just better athletes. I don't really think its racist saying that, I'm white for goodness sake. I just think that, as you said, if you take the average of all the races, blacks would be more athletic. I think other races, including Caucasians, have other gifts that they offer, but I think that blacks are just generally more athletic. Maybe thats just us though, I dont know...

And I know its the stereotype, and I'm not one for grouping people together and saying that all are this, or all are that, because thats just not true. However, if you take the average, I would say this one is.

I was always able to get a good sandlot game going with 10 people. Technically 8 is sufficient (pitchers' out, two OFs, one infielder.) 7 if some kind doesn't mind being all-time pitcher.

Plus we always had kids without gloves who would just use the batters' mitts. But of course it's still way easier to play basketball, you can even have a little fun doing that solo.

To-ARod sucks at life
Your rant about Boston being racist and waitinf forever to break the color barrier neglects the fact that the 5th team to integrate was Boston.

The Boston Braves.

I used to play with 3 people all the time behind my house in a gravel trucking company's lot. Me & a couple of friends used to go the fields almost every day in the summer & play. We'd start out with 3 to 4, then as the day went on, the number would fluctuate, the only thing that ever stopped us was when a fight broke out. I used to play in my front yard with just about anything we could find: a stick, a tied up sock, a pine cone, a fence slat, or even using your hand as the bat. Nothing stopped us from playing ball. No matter how poor or few of us there were. It only takes one to play catch, all you need is something like a ball & a wall hard enough to bounce it back at you. The only thing it really takes to play baseball, is a little passion.

When all MLB teams have Jewish players, and Native American, then maybe African American can be brought up in regards to Boston.

Coco will probably be traded because Ellsbury is better and cheaper

Not doubting the Red Sox past history, but thats over, this is about baseball.

The lack of black players in baseball causes me no concern. The lack of white players in basketball causes me no concern. To me, this is just another example of the culture's fetish with equality. What's wrong with just accepting that different people like different things?

Considering current census statistics available in the United States show that African Americans make up 12% of the nation's population, what's the big deal?

I think MLB is Shape-ist, Not Raciest. Other than a very few players like Cecil Fielder, Bartolo Colon, and John Kruk there are alarmingly few fat people playing baseball.

I think teams need to bring in obese folks to properly represent the U.S. population.

But seriously, I have to think that Boston would play papa smurf if they felt he could win 15 games.

We know the Yankees wouldnt because he has a beard.... :-)

You know what will really be interesting, when David Lee, Steve Nash, Drew Bennet and Kevin Curtis start talking about how they are worried that there are only 17 white guys in the nfl and nba combined if you dont count quarterbacks(obviously just joking). It is so stupid. Its not like MLB is outting a quota on black guys in the league, they just play other sports for the most part. They dominate the NFL and NBA.

shookz, my bad i basically hijacked your post. I posted my last one before reading yours. The funny part is that it almost proves the point further because I mentioned some of the same people as you from the NBA, and it just goes to show who the few caucasion guys that people recognize in the NBA are. I was thinking about mentioning Dirk, but I tried to keep it to American born players. Just thought that was funny. But seriously, we dont hear Jarome Iginla or Donald Brasheare complaining that there arent enough black guys in the NHL. Whats the difference, really, what colors your players are? Isnt having the best players the most important thing? It is always nice to have a diverse group in your sport I guess, but the fact that a lot of afro-americans who go pro athletically choose the NBA or NFL isnt really killing the sport or anything, though I think you could make a case that more then a few guys who play in the NBA or NFL could have pursued a professional basaball career had they chosen that path, but that can be said for any race, a lot of times pro's are just great athletes and would dominate at any sport that they chose to play.

12% of the population, 8% of MLB players, and then you factor in the overseas market.

You could probably make a case that african american players are OVER-represented.

If Ortiz = Latino, not "black" then its only the black population of the USA vs all the other population plus the population of latin american, japan, korea etc etc.

Statistically, should probably only be 1-2%.

White people in NBA is a great reference, the only reason people care is Jackie Robinson, and that whole saga. If Blacks could play MLB since day one, no one would even know the figure.

What a stupid question really, Sox looking to trade their only black player to make room for about the only Native American baseball player in the world, and people question the move.

In the article it talks about Torii Hunter gathering up African American baseball teams for tournaments. How acceptable would it be for me to say I want to organize a tournament of all white basketball teams?

"How acceptable would it be for me to say I want to organize a tournament of all white basketball teams?"

Why do people say stupid stuff like this? Its obvious what he means from a historical standpoint. Stop trying to make problems where there are none.

And to those who point out they could case less if blacks play more or less baseball. The point is as one who loves baseball, what disturbs me is the loss in recent decades of some of the more elite black athletes to the other sports.

Im one who has tried to promote the sport to the black youth and see the issues first hand. People its okay to have an intelligent adult conversation about various issues without it being seemed as "overkill".

I just want Dave Winfield or Bo Jackson to play baseball....

"I just want Dave Winfield or Bo Jackson to play baseball...."

I totally agree with you. Its not about most of the other stuff we are talking about, but the fan is who misses out the most on athletes of this calibur. Derrek Lee had to pick between basketball and baseball, and lucky for us Cubs fans, he chose baseball. Otherwise, we would have had to endure Hee Seop Choi for a lot longer than we did.

While I do think the whole concept of a White Entertainment television channel is funny, because it would never make it on air, thats not really the discussion we should be having here.

Folks I have been a Sox fan since the 60's and we have had players of all races and nationalities come and go. Decisions are based on players abilities and the clubs needs. No one said anything several year's ago when Trot Nixon was let go. It was a baseball move and while I loved Trot for his work ethic and "good guy in the clubhouse" attitudes I also acknowledge it was time to move in a different direction. We also have to acknowledge that baseball is now an international game. It's not just black & white any longer. More and more players are coming from around the globe and our game is better for it and growing in popularity. Get off the race card and look at the positive things happening in Baseball!