Santana Extension Talk

I voted that Santana will sign for 5yrs/80m. That way, Indians can afford Sabathia. (I know that's not going to happen, but I can dream, can't I? That's all we can do in Cleveland, just dream we can keep CC.)

assuming the mets fail to sign santana to an extension, would that make the them the ultimate loser? (assuming that they don't get the ring either)

unfortunately, they are going to have to sign him no matter what. they have to save face or the media is going to have a hay day with minaya and co.

This negotiation may or may not take the full 72 hours, but only the Mets will be negotiating. Santana's agent says "we'll take 6 years at $140m+ or 7 years at $165m+", then sits back for 72 hours until the Mets choose which package to sign. The Mets can go back and counteroffer all they want, but there is absolutely no incentive for Santana to come down at all. It will be a PR disaster for Minaya not to get the deal done and everyone at the table knows it.

JerseyMetFan: Not saying Santana's incapable of bucking the trend or that he's not better than those 3 guys, but while Zito just failed to perform, Hampton and Brown got hurt. I know the Mets HAVE to sign him, but 7 years is such a huge gamble on a player whose livlihood relies on 1 arm that it's a massive gamble, and the track record of these deals isn't helping the odds.

To SoleMaverick's comment: Santana knows that he is at peak value right now. If he remained with the Twins and had an off year, he would still have had considerable value as a free agent at the end of '08, but perhaps not quite as much as now. And, even Santana has been very durable, he knows that a pitcher (or any player) is just one pitch or one at bat away from a major injury. This is the best time for him to get maximum value.

Santana made it very clear that there were only a couple of teams that he was interested in playing for. The Twins had already made their best offer so it left the New York teams and Boston as the only teams he was interested in. There was never going to be much a bidding war for Santana as a free agent since there were essentially only three teams that he wanted to play for that could afford him.

"Can anyone explain to me the reason why Johan is not just playing out this last season with the Twins, who would definitely be a contender with him, and then just take himself to free agency where several teams will be bidding against one another for him? Only real good reason I can think is if Santana knows something about his health that others do not...."

He's healthy. Sorry....as to why he is not on the Twins?

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"These were Johan Santana's words Tuesday after the non-waiver trade deadline passed without another trade: "I'm not surprised. That's exactly how they are. That's why we're never going to go beyond where we've gone."

The Twins acquired two minor league prospects for Castillo, saved $2 million in payroll and did nothing to bolster this year's chances.

"It's not just about hope," Santana said. "In a realistic world, you have to really make it happen and go for it.

"You always talk about future, future. ... But if you only worry about the future, then I guess a lot of us won't be part of it," Santana said.

The two-time Cy Young Award winner wasn't smiling.

"Why waste time when you're talking about something that's always going to be like that? It's never going to be beyond this point. It doesn't make any sense for me to be here, you know?"

Torii Hunter will be a free agent at season's end. Santana and Joe Nathan will be free agents after 2008. Asked what message Ryan's latest decisions had sent to that trio, Santana continued firing.

"I've been here for eight years, and I've seen a lot of those kind of things," he said. "I've seen a lot of those guys [like Castillo] come in and leave. [The decision makers] don't care. They always talk about caring about it; I don't think they care.

"Because if you're always talking about having young players — that's the philosophy the team has, and I respect all that — but it's been proven that it's not enough to go all the way to the World Series.""
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That was last year. He did not want to be there at all and said trade me now.

Just read the Stark article.

It's hard for me to imagine (a) Santana agreeing to a 5 yr + an option year deal; and (b) that the Mets would even think he might. They had to know it was going to take a 6 year guaranteed contract to do this deal going in. If not, they shouldn't have even been in the trade discussions in the first place.

Yeah, it has been no secret he wanted six so it should not exactly be a surprise. But the business of wanting a bonus to boost his 2008 salary is absurd. Why should they do that AND give him $20+ per year over six years.

As for him demanding a trade, he could demand one. They of course did not have to placate him and do it, but he could demand whatever he wants.

I'm pretty sure he wanted nothing to do with being a Twin this year and probably told them he would use his veto mid-year as well pretty much forcing his hand.

RE: CC, Cleveland actually has some more cash than Minnesota so I think they have the ability to sign him much easier than the Twins could have signed Johan.

Whether they will or not is another debate.

"would he turn down a chance to make a name for himself in a playoff run?"

It seems elementary, but Delgado did just that. He turned down a shot to go to contender his last year in Toronto. Some people don't want to shuffle around mid year and are just really fickle. Johan also had that as his leverage in that spot and the Twins could have called his bluff (assuming he actually said that, which is just pure conjecture on my behalf).

The Indians have pocketed a ton of cash over the years so they truly differ from the Twins there. About $130m in recent years of total profit. That is where they significantly diverge from the Twins who have not been nearly as profitable and why I think they are in a better position to actually retain CC than most people think.

It'll be interesting to see what effect the Johan signing has on the Mets ability to sign their younger players to future contracts. That's a lot of money committed to one player.

Right. Reyes and Wright are locked up and there is only Maine to worry about. I would love Perez back, but that might be a sretch given Boras is going to peddle him around big time.

The real big key here is that Fernando and Pelfrey need to pan out. Pelfrey needs to be a league average pitcher and Fernando needs to contribute as well to give some wins on the cheap. If not, they are going to have a bitch of a time managing that payroll.

This draft is going to be huge for them. There are some interesting players on the farm, but nothing out of the ordinary or particularly close outside of a reliever or two.

They need to knock this next draft out of the park.

I will forever be skeptical until that happens. With all the cash they are spending on Johan, I could see them pull an about face on the slot/draft thing.

They need to spend big on this draft because right now, things are ugly. Of course I am not complaining per se, I've been insanely excited about Johan coming to New York. Merely pointing out they need to make sure this draft is remniscent of the BoSox '05 draft. They need to have a big one and stick to what they have saying they would do.

honestly, come on already. give the damn guy what he wants. you knew what you were getting into, and if a jackass like zito can pull down 120MM this guy certainly deserves a lot more. it's absurd, but it's becoming the reality. don't cry about 25 million when you're receiving the best pitcher in baseball. you're a big market team, and you can wipe your *** with that kind of money. let everybody else in the league move on.

That's too much money...even for Santana. Even for an everyday player its too much, but for a pitcher that's even worse. Pay all that for a guy that will play every 5th day. He's great, but not worth it. What the Mets are offering is more than enough, Santana is just getting greedy. I don't care either way who gets him, but hopefully the Mets say no.

Dont get me wrong, I will be cheering for him if/when this deal is finalized, but I would prefer to give him back to Minnesota and take our guys back. I want nothing to do with a 7 year contract at 170 mil, or even a 7 year contract at 140 mil for that matter, even without giving up the farm.

Why can't anything be simple?

I also think that Johan has virtually no incentive to settle in his price. Worse case scenario he goes back to the Twins. He puts up his typical year and hits FA.

Then you have the Yanks, Sox, and everyone else bidding because all it's going to take is cash. If the Sox or Yanks were willing to give up 4-5 players + sign him to a big contract how much more would he be worth without any players involved?

Another typical year from Johan and you are looking at an 8/$200 deal.

I dont get why Zito has to set the market. Everybody already knows what a bad signing that is already, and it has only been a year. How come Zambrano's contract isnt setting the market?

Its like okay, what should Omar say....."Okay man, Zito set the market last year (only Zambrano is similar because he was not a free agent and neither is Johan), and I know that it was an incredibly bad move, but I will just bump that price up by like 6 mil a year to get you signed after I just gave up my whole farm system".

Give him the 6/130, even that is too much. If Johan is greedy and demands more, tell him to stop watching Buster Olney so much and send him on his way. Spend that money on keeping locking up Perez and eventually Maine. How would it be Omar's fault anyway. He got the guy everybody wanted to NY. If they cant hammer out a deal, most likely it is because Wilpon doesnt want to pony up. I dont even blame him.

"Another typical year from Johan and you are looking at an 8/$200 deal."

Good for him then. Let some other idiot make that mistake. Maybe he goes back to Minnesota and blows out his arm.

As a fantasy baseball champion, I'd take Peav-Dog over Johan.

If I were Johan, I wouldn't be asking for 170MM.... I would be asking for 200MM..... You know why... Because I can ....

Don't forget Clemens' 28 million for one year deal as well. That helps set a standard.

Once a price tag like that is out there, all other deals will be judged by it.

Yeah, he clearly stated he wanted to play with the Mets. Obviously if he didn't he could have used his no trade clause.

So Johan Santana called Torii Hunter and told him to say that to reporters????

Lol.

Clemens didnt get a one year 28 million deal, he got a 14 million dollar deal for half a year. Much different

Zambrano just isn't comparable. The presumption is that when a player resigns with their team there is some sort of home town discount. We see that situation happen time and time again.

I agree that Zito isn't a good comparable either. It's a complete insult to even mention Johan's name in the same paragraph as Barry. Regardless of whether it was a "smart signing" or not, Zito did set the market price for a premiere FA pitcher (again - using premier in the loosest of terms).

As for Johan wanting to play on the East Coast ... who really knows if that is true or not. As others have pointed out, Johan has an agent and marketing team behind him. They say (or have Johan say) whatever is necessary to maximize their client's earning potential. I think it is quite a stretch to suggest that Johan is just dying for a chance to join the boys in NY.

TMACNTN, Oh you stupid little boy, you f#cked with the wrong bull. You see I was away living life when i came back to see you runnin your mouth on everything. The fact that you are responding to any and every post up here on the boards says it all. Go hit up your parents for them ten stacks, cuz I got a bet sayin that you've never been with a girl. Let alone a hot one! You are my favorite kind of internet dweller, the one who hides behind that keyboard in the vast electronic anonymous wasteland. I will hunt you down on every board just to see if you will back up YOUR BIG MOUTH. How you gonna pretend you have a girl, when you dont even have time for a job cuz youre up here trying to pick internet fights? Which no doubt, comes from a hard day of getting picked on in real life. That goattard thing you came up with was real cute too, sounds like you've definitely grown into your big boy pants. I'm gonna post this on all the latest boards, so everyone can watch and see you puss out on your bad ass challenge.. You post up to me again and I'll give you my e-mail. We'll start from there. God willing, you'll be from Chicago so I can come collect in person. Here's a little advice for the future: When you come here try and just enjoy the rumors, dont go callin people out with stupid ass bets, that you know we cant verify. The fact you cant prove it is not only your stregnth but also youre weakness. I know its a thinker. Ask someone to explain what that means. I'll come back and check in a day or two. F#ckin kids

A-rod... lol. I would prefer to see a 2 out rally ended by Ellsbury tapping a slow dribbler down the 3rd base line. Lugo is on second. Wagner forgets to cover first. Delgado gets flustered. Ball gets through his legs.

" A little roller up along first..... BEHIND THE BAG AND IT GETS THROUGH BUCKNER!!!!!! Here comes Knight and the Mets WIN IT!!!!!!"

Actually, my predicition for the WS is Julio Lugo is struck out by Ruddy Lugo in the 17th inning of a game 7 of the WS at Shea stadium (The mets got homefield atvantage because Mark Texeira hit a game winning homerun off Mariano Rivera in the all star game.)

"i think oliver perez would be the sure thing one day, once he takes control of his command, and i dont think the mets would be able to sign him or maine after sanatana drained mets.

that money santana is asking for is too much, way to much, even for the best pitcher in baseball, to me he is a little greedy."

Is Santana getting $23m versus $17m a year going to tip the scales for the Mets? Probably not and they get $20m from their naming rights to CitiField. They'll be able to afford Maine and Perez.

Whether or not Perez comes back, is another question. He is a Boras client, but Pedro's cash is off the books this year and Perez's pay raise could slot in nicely there. I am still holding out the unrealistic hope they extend him for another three years after '08 when they go to their arb metting.

As for Maine, I would expect an extension buying out the rest of his arb years this year.

My big concern is first base. After Delgado, there is not one person in-house and they probably will not be bringing in Teixiera.

Is Botts available? He might be an intriguing stopgap.