No Recent Brian Roberts Talks

If they didnt take that deal then give them Veal, Cedeno, Ceda, Marshall. If they want one more give them Ascanio as well. Get this deal done. I hope Hendry reads this.

Gallagher, Veal, Ceda, Cedeno, Ascanio, maybe Marshall for Roberts Sherrill.

Done deal and lets move on with our lives.

cedeno and derosa over Roberts and Theriot?! no way.. theriot and roberts are both upgrades at their positions... until cedeno proves he can hit anything near what he hits in AAA, he's nothing more than a back-up and will never be more.

Am I wrong thinking that McPhail wants just as much for Roberts as if he was trading Bedard ?If that was the case I would have rather had Bedard .

Tim , I can see your point in thinking that Cedeno and Derosa would prove as a better combo over Roberts and Theriot . Cedeno probably has more potential than Theriot ,but Theriot in my eyes has shown he is going to use the most of his potential .Without that legit leadoff though , can this offense be consistent ?

Tim , I can see how Cedeno should be better than Theriot, but so far, he's not. Theriot has the fire and the instincts. Cedeno the tools but a bone-head and a sleepy boy. Can't see how you'd prefer DeRosa over Roberts. (Unless you had a true leadoff hitter in CF.) I mean, DeRosa is great but he will surely be needed 20-30 games at 3rd base when Aramis has his annual leg problems, and he can also rest Derrek Lee and Fukodome (maybe even Theriot.) Piniella wants to have these guys rested this time. And there are always injuries. Best to have a leadoff man, AND a super-sub. I know they'd be fine with DeRosa, with Cintron and Fontenot backing up, but that's just what I think anyway.

Just wanted to add, my dad is a snow-bird in Ft. Lauderdale and has been watching Brian Roberts at O's camp the last couple springs. He says he really stands out, in person you can just really tell how talented he is, a man among boys, baseball-wise. Like Theriot, he also has "the fire."

Though most would probably disagree , I'm in favor of keeping Marquis and letting him do his stuff until July. As soon as he begins to falter ,take Leiber out of the pen and put Marquis in the pen .It might help keep Leiber fresh down the late stretch .

If Colvin and Ceda are both in the trade , then giving up those two and Gallagher and Cedeno is where I would draw the line . Unless Gallagher was switched out with Veal which would be fine with me because I feel the Cubs may need Gallagher if the injury bug hits the pitching staff .

There's no way they give up Colvin, Ceda, AND Gallagher, right? Three of their best prospects, (and a starting shortstop.)
Cedeno and Patterson would be their starting infield right now! They have Freddy Bynum penciled in at shortstop (or second!)

Geez I hope this trade pays off.

Colvin and Ceda being sent down to Triple A camp has nothing to do with them not being in a trade... with about 3 weeks left of Spring training they will start playing more and more starters and playing more of the backups....

I remember last year Ryan Braun was up for the first 3 weeks then sent down about 2 weeks before the end of ST..

How is your 4th and 5th starter search going...Any front runners yet between The Dump, Marguis and Lieber..

"I'm of the opinion the Cubs would be better off going with Mark DeRosa and Cedeno as their doubleplay combo over Roberts and Ryan Theriot."

Did you mean, as a combo better? Or just better off overall not making any deals? It sure sounds like you prefer DeRosa.
Help me out here?

The Main thing a trade for Roberts does is help the Cubs bench out...Roberts is not that much of an upgrade by himself over Derosa...but Adding Derosa to the Bench is an upgrade..

I think the cubs need to get this deal done. Roberts is a big upgrade of Derosa. Hendry should do what ever he needs to do to get this deal done fast. I am getting tired of hearing it won't get done before ST is over.

Any day now, it will happen.

I love people that say Roberts is not much of an upgrade.

Roberts is:
- Lead off hitter
- Switch Hitter
- AL SB Champion
- All Star 2B
- In the prime of his career

He has hit .285+ each of the last 3 seasons. Been on base 728 times the past 3 years.

So he is more then his B.Ave, OB% and Slugging. Which were all better then DeRosa BTW.

:)

My last time I will wish on this trade ....Patterson , Colvin , Ceda , and Veal for Roberts and Payton . But I predict IF it goes down it will be Cedeno , Colvin , Gallagher , Ceda , and Veal for Roberts and Payton .If Hendry does the latter , he's an idiot .

Thats right!

I don't want to see him go. He is one of the few atheltes in MD that goes to hospitals and such to help cheer up the kids. He is a good person and a solid role model. He never complained about his contract like some.

Agreed INOK . Thats why I have Burnett on my summer deadline wish .

XD I think we're all in agreement with you that Roberts is a fine gentleman and player and we will relish having him for a couple years if we get him. I'm sure the O's will get something good out of the deal.

I think for one more year to try and let Cedeno compete for SS because he does have more potential than Theriot . IF Cedeno hits that potential he could make the offense that much better . If he can't crack the starting lineup by the allstar break , then he's a bust .

Gallagher is no guarantee , but he's probably the best back up right hander the Cubs have in triple A that could pitch well enough to fill the slot until the injured righty comes back .If I had to trade him in the Roberts deal ....yes I would .

Also , if Cedeno can play well enough leading into the break his trade value might come up and actually be more value than Patterson . If Gallagher is still around by the break , he might as well have a higher trade value which could help get the Cubs that needed #3 righty the Cubs need .

Dude your insane, Cedeno over Theriot? Cedeno sucks, and doesn't have the range or the defense like Ryan does.

Oh please! Don't make me "wait for the year after next year" already! The window is open a crack, gotta go for it BOTH years! Things can go wrong, you know.

BTW XDW here's the 2007 stats.

Roberts
Avg -.290
OBP -.377
SLG%-.432
99 strike outs

Derosa
Avg- .293
OBP- .371
SLG%-.420
93 strike outs

We are not looking for Mother Teresa.
Sure thats great he goes to the hospitals to cheer up sick kids. As for the "solid role model"? .... I'm sure he's a great guy, so I will not bring up certain things of the past.
I have to say something about the "All Star" talk. Was he voted on the team or was he the O's default representitive?
Finally, with all that said, I LIKE BRIAN ROBERTS, I'm just not willing to sell my sole for him!

If the Cubs throw all their chips in at once and they get the injury bug (as we have seen ) then at the end of the year all we will be able to say is "They tried ." Then next year we might be facing a team that has already faced defeat with nothing to add . I say go for it if everything is in place and the Cubs are missing one last piece in late July .But , If there is more than one question mark it is better to play smart and be able to go all in next year by adding a couple of pieces to the puzzle .

I made the comment that , to me , Cedeno has more potential . However , Theriot has done the most out of the two with what he has .I believe that if Cedeno could translate his triple A ability to the major league level , he would outplay Theriot . However , he has yet to do so . By giving him until the allstar break to prove that , he could either be the starting SS or he might increase his value a bit to provide help in trading for a better right handed pitcher which the Cubs really need . After Zambrano , the Cubs aren't scaring anybody with their righties .Besides the Reds , the NL central teams are mostly built with their key players as right handers .

DeRosa had 6 less strike outs in about 120 less ABs.

Like its been mentioned once or twice before. Do you need Roberts? No.

But he will give the Cubs a complete line up. You had 1 guy with a higher OB% then Roberts last year. None scored more runs, none were within 20 SBs and none were on base as many times as Roberts (269 times). And that would help vs Mets, Rockies, D-Backs, Padres, Phillies, Braves and Brewers. BTW he hit a few of those teams pretty well. Col (.308), SD (.538) and Ari (.400).

Oh and:
Erik Bedard and his 7 Wins 3.40 ERA and 149 Ks in 121 InnP was a worthy candidate for the AS Game. But Roberts was at .324 with 56 R and 27 SB. So I'd say he earned his All Star nod.

I remember Derosa saying something along the lines that he won't ask for a trade if Roberts is added to the Cubs , but he would be frustrated because he can't see how the Cubs would give him enough playing time .

You don't have to defend Roberts as far as I'm concerned . I'd go into what I posted a while ago , but the night is short .

Once again, 12,000 words devoted to a thread saying nothing is happening.

OK Sorry he would have been top 2 in OB% with players with 125 ABs or more.

Roberts can steal a win. He will take 2B then take 3B (stole 3rd 19 times last year) so instead of needing a hit to get a run he scores on a fly ball or a grounder.

Also speed doesn't slump. Well unless you have a leg problem like Soriano had.

BAH! Why does TypeKey log me out after every post... and not tell me?!?!?

“Zrebiec was able to confirm from two sources that the Cubs offered Ronny Cedeno, Sean Gallagher, Donald Veal, and another unknown player for Roberts. The teams can't agree on the fourth player, and the O's may want a fifth too. The Orioles are said to like top Cubs' prospects like Jose Ceda, Felix Pie, and Tyler Colvin.”

…Hate to say I told ya :)

Really, Gallagher + Veal + Cedeno + ??? or even + ??? & ??? (possibly including Ceda, Colvin or even Pie ~ but would have to imagine Pie would only be with Veal or Gallagher lowered to a Huesby type). Telling you guys:

Gallagher + Veal + Cedeno + Colvin + Huesby = Roberts + Payton + Cash!
OR
Gallagher + Veal + Cedeno + Colvin + Huesby + Marquis + 2009 Cash = Roberts + Payton

“Gallagher, Cedeno , Veal , and one other prospect whether it be Ascanio or Ceda , but to me thats getting robbed by itself . Add another ?”

I think its four with a guy like Colvin or Ceda and 5 if not that high of 4th guy and the 2 others would be lower types…

That is without a doubt your proposal dark. What do you think the chances of this thing happening?

"Lets just get MacPhail drunk, so he can make bad decisions and make this trade"

"I don't think MacFail drinks! He's more the bookworm type!"

Bookworm or Drunk he is going to still most likely going to enjoy sex. I am pretty sure he isn't asexual, but not not 100% and it is possible he is androgynies.

So find out if he likes boys or girls, then find him some youngster he cannot resist (over 18 years old) Get some compromising photos.. and its a done deal. :-)

Throw in Murton and Payton and this deal should be done! The Oriols dump salary and get a superior player in Murton. Then they could platoon Murton with Luke Scott. If this happens, they will have dumped 31 million dollars! Tell me they can't go out and get Texiera with that money!

If the cubs get Roberts, I'm guessing he would bat second. The cubs would be much better with his speed. De Rosa Career Stolen bases = 12.
Roberts 2007 Stolen Bases = 50.

This is DeRosa talking in an interview on January, 16th: "My personal opinion is that I find it hard to believe a utility man is as important as an everyday player. He's not. Period."......"I find it hard to believe I'm going to get playing time if you acquire a player of that caliber [as Roberts]. You've got Fukudome in right, you've got Aramis at third, you've got Roberts at second, you've got [Alfonso Soriano] in left. Where am I going to play? That was my question [to Hendry], and that was my approach. It's not like you're acquiring another super utility player [like a Ryan Freel], and we can all bounce around and all give each other days off and all find a happy medium."

“That is without a doubt your proposal dark. What do you think the chances of this thing happening?”

Pretty good, but I imagine it will be because the Cubs/Hendry fold instead of the other way around. The Cubs have made Roberts an extreme target for the club, they set themselves up for the O’s to ask for a highside package and hold all the leverage overall. The O’s already said Pie + Gallagher + Pitcher (probably a Veal type), so it seems they have already made concessions on their demands if Pie isnt included. Since they hold the cards and have already lowered demands, then I think its unlikely they take many more steps back. If Hendry decides winning in 2008/2009 is more important than holding onto these mainly projectable prospects who may or may not be helping the club anywhere from 2-6 years from now, then it will get done.

“Throw in Murton and Payton and this deal should be done! The Oriols dump salary and get a superior player in Murton.”

…We’ve already gone over that many times ~ The O’s have little to no need for Murton, they have too many corner-OF types both on the team and in the high minors for it to make sense…

“If the Cubs relent on Ceda, the O's can throw in a guy they don't even want, Payton.”

…Some Cubs fans keep saying this, but its really that you all don’t want Payton ~ not that the team doesn’t want Payton. The team has publicly said they are looking for a RH CF capable backup OFer for depth, right? When it seemed unlikely a Roberts deal would go down, the first thing we heard was “will shift attention to Byrd and Lieber”.

Payton is the RH Vet-CF backup who can fill-in with LgAvg-ish production for Pie when/if Pie tanks. Don’t dismiss him because of one abnormal year last year though. Pie does have plus D, but is a rookie and will probably make lots of rookie mistakes (like he did last year). Pie can be a plus hitter, but he sure hasn’t shown it yet. Pie needs a Payton/Byrd/Crisp type around behind him, the Cubs need to have that type around him… Now, are any of these types extremely happy that they are in that backup roll? Nah, but being in such a role when you weren’t brought in for that role is a tad different then getting another chance with a new club that wants you for such a role ~ ie, Crisp would probably be much happier in the same role elseware than with Boston who is the team providing that perceived slap.

Also, I personally don’t see the O’s interest in Ceda, unless they are just really intent on Gallagher + Veal + High-Up-Side prospect, but don’t like what they are seeing from Colvin. If that’s the case, then Ceda is almost the default “high-up-side” guy; but I think everyone pretty much agrees that he doesn’t make a ton of sense for the O’s to be looking at…

You could make the same argument on the O's side for Colvin, dark. Why would they want Colvin when they have Scott and a glut of corner OF'ers for the short term and Reimold, a top 100 guy, a 1/2 year away? He's much less raw than Colvin and much more ready to contribute. My opinion is that Ceda is more valuable to the O's with Chris Ray's future uncertain and Sherril, the current closer, almost certain to be be dealt for a prospect or two at the deadline. Ceda immediately becomes their best closer prospect and can take over as soon as the end of this year. And as a Cub fan for years, you can trust me when I say that McPhail likes nothing more than projectable arms. His strategy with the Cubs was to stockpile arms and if there was a surplus, he can always deal them for position players (since good pitching is often more valuable on the trade market). Ceda and Veal fit the bill here as projectable arms with lots of upside. From the Cubs point of view, Colvin and Ceda are near equals as prospects but, as I mentioned earlier, hard RH throwing relievers is where the Cubs surplus lies and corner OF'er is a surplus for the O's. I think Ceda is a better fit from both sides.

darkstar, what's your opinion on Travis Hafner this year. Do you think his home runs will return to previous years or is he on the way down?

cubswin15, maybe your right. But he doesn't strike me as the type of guy that would put himself above the team. We'll see.

I will cry if the Cubs plan on Jay payton, who is absolutely worthless, to do anything next year. He is projected to have a negitive(!) VORP...which means he is worst than pretty much anybody out there. The cubs don't need him, he is a salary dump. But it sounds like the only way they are interested in taking him on is if the O's are going to take on Marquis, which is fine with me.

As far as Gallagher, Veal, Cedeno, and another one or two...it GREATLY depends on the other one or two. I think you take out Veal, add Ceda, and give them Marshall. You can even give them Patterson if you want as a 5th player, but even then, the cubs are probably getting fleeced.

So that would be

Gallagher\Ceda\Marshall\Cedeno\Patterson

for Roberts

or add Marquis and Payton in their, with a litle money added from the Cubs.

I'm seriously over McFailure though, he needs to be put in his place and stop acting like an idiot.

Geo, the point for the Cubs is not to trade DeRosa. They are going to need him.

BTW... my crazy proposal earlier was just some crazy stuff. I have no idea how valuable Jose Coronado and Ernesto Frieri are I took them becasue they are young and in AA. Hundley probably a journeyman catcher at best.

“My opinion is that Ceda is more valuable to the O's”

Ceda is a BP arm, what does a rebuilding team need a BP arm for? With the glut of high-minors to ML-ready SPers (and even BP arms), that is where their future BP will come from. Add to it the fact that SP and BP arms are always avail on the FA and trade markets, and you see it easy to fill a 2010 BP without taking the risk on Ceda.

Really, rebuilding clubs just don’t need BP prospects, if they fail to live up to potential they have no where to fall. A SP can always become a BP guy, a Start-Type hitter can always turn into a platoon-type, or bench depth or even a stop-gap. A BP arm is either ML bound or out of baseball…

“I think Ceda is a better fit from both sides.”

…I see it the exact opposite in every way of the word. The Cubs are unlikely to use Colvin with the current setup, the Cubs competiting though means they are likely to be looking for BP arms in the winning-window, the O’s will get their BP arms by dumb-luck and off scrapheaps or FA when its needed, the O’s will have 5 OF/1B/DH spots where Colvin would be a possibility and the Cubs probably don’t want to give up 3 pitchers (with Gallagher & Veal also included) like that…

“Payton can start 25-40 games to rest Pie and play against tough lefties.”

That would be the obvious plan ~ with him also being a late inning replacement. Late innings is where Rookies often show their rookie-mistake lapses, and you don’t want a guy like Pie blowing a late lead on a contender…

What about Reimold? Do the O's just forget about him? They don't have a single closer prospect worth mentioning and a very good OF prospect in Reimold. They also have Rowell who struggles defensively as an IF and may well be moved to a corner. But Colvin is more valuable to them than Ceda? I don't think so. And the Cubs have Wood, Howry, Marmol and Weurtz as hard throwing relievers. With Marmol as the closer under their control for years. They have Smardzija, Lahey, Petrick, Hart and Ascanio to fill in hard throwing RH set up roles in the future -- at least a couple should pan out. How is Ceda indispensible when you have Marmol alone - much less all the other young guys? What you are proposing goes against what's best for the Cubs - dealing from an area of strength - and the Orioles, who have question marks in the near future for their closer. Ceda immediately becomes their top closer prospect. BP is one thing, closer is a valuable commodity. But instead they would rather bring in Colvin to compete with Reimold and possibly Rowell for the same spot? McPhail has already begun his stockpiling process of arms in Tillman, Butler, Mickolio, Patton, Sarfate...and it never stops. That's what he does. He's like the terminator when it comes to projectable arms. If McPhail has asked for Colvin, it's to set Hendry up so he can "compromise" on Ceda. And Colvin is considered a good CF (but a great RF'er), not a "borderline" CF'er. He could play a solid CF for the Cubs with a well above average arm for that position.

Payton, a late inning replacement for Pie? Are you serious? Pie was already a late inning replacement last year as a rookie on a contending team in a pennant race! And now they're going to take him out for a slower, sore-kneed, pop-gun armed, mediocre CR'er??? Never mind. That just goes to show how far your willing to go to try and prove you're right about everything. I thought I could have an intelligent conversation with you but you are more interested in being "right" than an honest exchange of ideas. I value the latter far more than the former when it comes to a discussion. Trying to prove you are right all the time damages your argument, dark. It really does. People would respect your opinion more if there was some give and take involved.