Stark's Latest: Davis, Valdez, Roberts, Lofton

don't shop davis and valdez. we should be playing more kids, not trying to trade away the few we have. the sad part is if the prospects were given half a chance, i bet at least a couple of them would surprise some people an earn regular play...but we will never know

Baltimore why Lohse? he's a bum

I could see that point but Lohse ? We got lucky with Trachsel going to the Cub's. what would be a reasonable contract? 5 yrs. 50 mil. he was asking for. I know it wouldn't be no where near that but actually what kind of numbers would work?

Well I guess it depends. If both parties are looking for a longer deal I can see 3 years $20 mil. But if it is more of a year rental so he can be dealt mid-season then a 1 Year $5-6 mil.

All depends on what both sides want.

The O's probably want Lohse simply to help Trachsel eat innings and keep the O's from putting the burden on all those good young arms. They don't want to wear those guys out before they get a chance to rebuild and compete for a title. I think it's a smart move if they can get him cheap. Supposedly his price has come way down.

Instead of Lohse how about the O's just take Marquis in a trade. Then everybody wins!

I agree Crunchy, Look what happened to Woods and Prior. That still bums me out. Thanks Dusty!

MR. CRUNCH, I don't understand, why wouldn't you let your younger arms try to prove thier worth? Are u saying Penn,Liz,Olson ect.in aaa. ball.The way Ilook at it if Penn struggles I'd rather see Liz get a chance then Lohse pitch 160 inings of junk ball.I seen what Penn,Liz,Olson ect.can do in the minors, now it's time for them to get thier chance at a m.l. level.I'm talking atleast 15 to 20 starts. Baltimore isn't competing this yr. what would it hurt? THINK we could trade u both Lohse and Trachsel this time mid season as Trachsel last yr. (jking).

ok first of all INOK his name is WOOD not Woods second of all lets get this deal done personally im a huge cubs fan but im sooo tired of this "rumor" stark better be right and crunchy1 baltimore will not sucessfully rebuild during mcphail's lifetime so whats he gotta worry about?

By doing what Dusty Baker did to Mark Prior, and excessively using his arm. What if Adam Loewen threw 225 innings of 3.40 ERA, then blew out his arm in late 2009 when they were close to contending in 2010? What if they could've saved his arm by tossing him out there for 180 innings instead, and letting Trachsel and Lohse eat those innings?

Thats why signing Lohse makes sense. They need three solid inning eaters (Trachsel, Cabrera, Lohse) to join the stable of decent to good young pitchers they have.

It's a f&%kin' slip and fall for Angelos!

Thanks Da that added a lot... Are you proposing an 8 man rotation Outlaw?

SCRIB, I see your point.So let them pitch in the minors?I wouldn't expect 225 inings, Bedard couldn't crack 200. what's wrong with 150 to 160 inings maybe less.5 to 6 ining starts with a rest if needed? dude i know u think I'm an idiot,maybe I'm rushing. It's been ten long yrs. here in Baltimore and i expect too much.I understand what ur saying thx.

Six man rotation good idea,I'd be in favor of that.

outlaw, I don't think your opinion is bad...but I think what scrib and others like myself are trying to say is that even with a rebuilding team, its good to have guys you know can eat 180 to 210 innings, because you know some of the younger guys aren't ready for the league\workload yet. Another important item here is service time. You don't want to have 5 young starting pitchers all running out of service time at the same time, or running out of options either. I think you get two inning eating veterans, and let the young guys fill out the rotation. I mean, you can have 5 starting in AAA and getting good experience without using any of their options or service time, which will be very valuable come 2010-11.

Dusty Baker takes a lot of blame in Chicago for what happened to Wood and Prior, but it really isn't warranted. For one, he has a reputation as someone who uses his starters way too much, but the numbers for IP by starters on teams he's coached is just slightly above average. Secondly, the situation at the time made it necessary to ride Wood and Prior. It's not like they were midseason call-ups and the Cubs were 15 games out of first. They were in a pennant race and trying to win a championship for the first time in almost a century. Wood and Prior were both almost unhittable after the All-Star break and carried the team. At the time, would you have preferred that Dusty yank one of them after 6 innings with a 3-hit shutout going because he'd thrown 85 pitches? Would you have felt more comfortable handing the ball over to Kyle Farnsworth or Mike Remlinger? One or two blown leads down the stretch and the media would have crucified Baker for not sticking with one of the Wonderkids. (Just like Piniella was for yanking Zambrano in Game 1 of the NLDS last season.)

An 8 man rotation...hmmmm thats very interesting.

Aduncaroo, see more of the politics of baseball, I can understand that. I'm rushing the situation. These young arms will take time.THX.

Did Durham ever end up playing center for Beane? I can't remember...

"At the time, would you have preferred that Dusty yank one of them after 6 innings with a 3-hit shutout going because he'd thrown 85 pitches?"

No, but I would like him to pull him after 7 when he had thrown 100 pitches and we were up by 7 runs or whatever it was. Dusty isn't totally guilty, but there were times that he left them in for no reason at all...

You have to remember that prior was pitching his first full season and wood had never had exactly a history of durability. To an extent, I will agree with you that dusty had to play his best, but I strongly recommend you actually go look at the box scores. Why would dusty be sending prior out in the seventh and eighth innings in consecutive september starts, both blowout wins... (7-0, 8-4, prior throwing 129 and 130 pitches, respectively) Not to mention that he pitched 210+ innings that season... Typically injuries tend to crop up at jumps of 30 innings over previous seasons... Prior had thrown 116 big league innings the previously. year. So, as much as dusty had to ride them to an extent, he clearly didnt have any qualms about it either. Prior was a misleading case, his obvious polish leading many to think that he might be more durable than age factors might indicate, but thats merely an excuse.

For a good laugh, check out dustys recent comments about the reds young hitters, aka, 'walks clog the basepaths'... He is simply an overrated manager who probably shouldnt be allowed to go near young players.

yes passedballs that was what I was saying. Everything seemed to go wrong after that line drive. And damn I saw that game and it was ugly. I am not defending Prior because I am not a fan anymore nor am I a fan of Dusty. I just like to state the facts.

Nice work, passedballs!

I'm still stuck on why the Orioles can't use their young guys and at the same time not over work them?

What are the odds that you start out with 5 guys and end with those same 5 guys? Players will get injured, players will be ineffective. Pitchers will get rotated in and then rotated out. Some will go down to the minors others might stay in the bullpen.

The point is, you can manage a starting rotation that is primarily stocked with young pitchers. Since this year ISN'T about winning, let the kids get broken in and take their lumps now. Give them an extra day of rest when there is no pressure to win. Heck, take a week or two if you get tired. At least this way you can start to see what you have.

If I were an O's fan I would rather them use that $6m and put it towards the draft. We all know they will have a high enough pick to spend it on.

Read Aduns 11:23 post above bj. I think he explained it very well.

I think the argument, orioles rotation wise, is just a miscommunication.

I think the point of a durable yet unspectacular arm like lohse is that its the type of acquisition that would allow the orioles to "give them an extra day of rest" or a "week or two if you get tired"
I dont think there is anything wrong with letting the young pitchers get some time in the majors to gain experience, especially for a rebuilding team like the orioles. But, a loshe-esque type player is good to have as a contingency if those "lumps" turn into welts for any of the kids. Couple this with the fact that you don't want to pile too many innings on those arms at such an early point in their career. Let the kids pitch, yes, but there is a difference between that and irresponsibly adding to the already difficult problem of trying to keep any young pitcher healthy.

As someone else noted earlier, an additional reason to let some get more time in the minors is service time. Off the top of my head, i think many of their young guys are young enough and close enough in age that starting the clock on their major league service time would mean you would end up with an entire staff arbitration eligible at the same time, thus creating some financial headaches in a future offseason. Its kinda the argument: If you dont have to rush em, dont rush, cause it might save you a little cash down the line.

In summary, Lohse and "letting the kids pitch" arent mutually exclusive.

Is there anyone other than me who thinks that Winn makes sense for the Cubs as the right handed hitting CF they are looking for. As a switch hitter with power, speed, and the ability to hit he would be a good fit as he would be able to play a servicable CF. Line up of Roberts, Fuku, Soriano, Ramirez, Lee, Winn, Soto, Theriot would be pretty solid with Mark DeRosa as a super sub which Lou desires with all the day games and insurance against injury. Makes sense to me. I'd take Winn over Coco, Byrd, or Payton.

I think Davis would be a decent fit for the Cubs , but he would cost more than Byrd and I don't like the idea of trading away all of the spare pieces before July in case there's a chance to pick up a better right handed pitcher .

It would be pretty stupid of the Giants to trade Davis or Merkin. They are both solid options, especially for a team going nowhere, and they're also making league minimum. If they're traded over those vets, Sabean should really get the boot.

Cubs fans - please take Winn. Hes a good ball player who could rack up a 100 runs and 15 to 20 HR in your lineup. Plus he plays good D and has the wheels to be a lead off guy.

The Giants don't need him and hes being wasted on our joke of a team. We need to play young guys!

The Os bullpen has been upgraded of sorts. There's an abundance of arms in the pen actually.

They wouldn't. Every time you see a "trade rosin, gravel, a bucket of balls and a PTBNL for [Cain|Lincecum]," you should stop reading. Fanboy fantasy is fun for some. Irrational, but fun.

I know it's already been said, but that Winn/Lincecum deal was pretty funny. The Giants have hit upon two terrific young arms in Cain and Lincecum, but instead of building around them, they're just going to send 'em packing for a platoon OFer, and a couple of decent (but not great) prospect. Right. I'm sure integr96 WOULD rather do that deal than trade with the O's. I would rather Baltimore trade Roberts to Colorado for Ubaldo Jimenez, Franklin Morales, Ian Stewart, and Greg Reynolds, but that ain't happening either.

As far as the arb. clock, I don't know how much that applies with regard to Olson, Penn, and Albers. I could be wrong, but haven't their clocks already started? Looking at delewarebird's projected O's rotation, I'm not sure if I'm depressed or excited. On the one hand, Traschel's presence fills me with despair and I'm soooo over Cabrera, but some of the other names are promising. I think about Guthrie (if he's anywhere near his '07 self), Loewen (if HE's alright following surgery), Olson and Albers (who's looked awfully good this spring...as misleading as that can be) at the MLB level. Assuming the deal goes down with Roberts, we'll have Liz, Gallagher, and Penn at AAA (and the Sun had a story today about Liz's improved command! Fingers crossed!). Bowie's rotation should include Tillman, Spoone, and the underrated David Hernandez. Frederick could be ridiculous with Arrieta, Erbe (I still have faith), Beato (see Erbe), Tony Butler, and maybe Tim Bascom. Possibly throw Veal into the mix and maybe a Brian Matusz via the draft (or Aaron Crow or ?) and...damn.