Giants Interested In Nick Johnson?

Not sure if the Cardinals would do it, but Chris Duncan would be a solid option for the Giants. Plus it would solve the Cards OF "surplus" that is going to get worse when Rasmus gets called up.

Lyle Overbay or Adam Lind.

Aubrey Huff?

I don't think the Cards would do that...Duncan backs up Pujols who will hurt himself at some point this season. Also Duncan being the coach's son, that may be a factor.

On the one hand, any major-league hitter who doesn't suck would be an upgrade. On the other, upgrading at 1B would be almost, but not quite, as stupid as adding a center fielder coming off a career year to a roster that already featured one average starting CF (Winn) and at least three below-average backup CFs (Roberts, Lewis and Davis).

1B is the easiest defensive position. Only Brian Sabean has the knack -- some would call it 'idiocy' -- for making it a tough roster slot to fill. Getting a shortstop who can hit, a third baseman who can both hit and field, a catcher who can block the plate and run to first base faster than a duck-billed platypus, a second baseman with defensive range better than that of a fire hydrant.. these would seem to be priorities. Not 1B and LF, not unless either can be filled to great advantage somehow.

None of these 1B choices fills the spot to great advantage. Wasting team resources to go from 72 wins to 74 this one season, while costing future teams anything at all, is a waste.

Nick Johnson will be staying in Washington; watch Dmitri play defense and you'll see why.

Well, I guess Jim Bowden would be tempted to make the trade if the Giants offered, say, half their starting rotation.

Since the Giants are clearly not in "win now" mode they should go young, cheap and be willing to take some chances. The Tribe should be willing to part with a guy like Michael Aubrey and would require little in return. Aubrey is very talented but hasn't been able to stay healthy. He's looking better now than at any point in his short career, health-wise. It would be a smart play by Sabean but he seems to prefer expensive, declining vets.

The Giants cannot have Nick, nor anyone else! He is the core of the Nats' offense, and his ability to scoop up errant throws is the reason why Ryan Zimmerman will win the Gold Glove at third base this year. The Giants would deifinitely benefit from Having Nick Johnson, but they would have to pay a big price.

The problem with Johnson to the Giants is I don't see what the Giants could offer. Obviously Lincecum and Cain are off the table, and I don't think Lowry, Jonathan Sanchez, ect have enough value. The Giants don't particularly have a Strong Farm System either, they have Villalona but I don't see them parting with him either.

I could see DAN Johnson being dealt to the Giants for pretty cheap.

I actually like the idea of the Giants maybe sending Lowry to the Rangers for prospect package involving Carter. I'd be great if they could get Andrus or Teagarden in return too but thats probably too much to ask for.

I think that the Giants could make a reasonable deal for Johnson. The Nationals have some good young pitching, but considering the lack of reliable guys they have at the MLB level, adding more young guys would probably be their priority. They can build their young offense around Zimmerman and their outfielders (Kearns, Pena, Milledge, Dukes, Burgess). The Giants still have a pretty decent amount of pitching, and Johnson is a very above average player when healthy, so a deal could likely be reached along these guidelines:

Nick Johnson and Felipe Lopez (play either second or short because Bocock and Durham is a joke, Nationals don't want him either)

for

one of Jonathan Sanchez and Noah Lowry (either they want the potential high quality lefty, or the decent innings eater)

and then on top of that the Giants would give up Henry Sosa and another player. The Giants would still have Cain, Lincecum, Zito, Correia and the guy that doesn't get traded in the rotation. An offense with Nick Johnson and Felipe Lopez looks far better than one with Rich Aurilia and Ray Durham

i'd say go for a guy like matt stairs or michele abreu because i think dmitri young and nick johnson are too highly priced and beside johnson is too good of a player to sit or platoon with Aurillia

if they relly want johnson i bet noah lowry and maybe a small level prospect maybe someone ranked outside of the top 20 in their organization would get it done for a good price

Does anyone else here agree that Sabean should go after Wilson Betemit? The guy has looked pretty good in his times as a starter and won't get much play time in New York now that Shelley Duncan has all but taken away his at bats at first. Adding him and plugging him in at third would give them a potentially above average bat for probably not much more than a decent prospect or two.

Aubrey Huff?

No to Aubrey Huff. Again, the Giants are not competitive. They need to look to the future and Huff is anything but the future. Go young. Go cheap. Take some risks.

I liked the idea of going for Kotchman in posts before, haha but people were saying for Lincecum so that's no good. If that doesn't work out Dan Johnson would be kinda nice, I don't think another old head on the Giants a team who refuses to go young would help. I doubt anything happens though.
I HATE BRIAN SABEAN :(

Why on earth would the Nats deal Nick Johnson for Noah Lowry? Noah Lowry will be Steve Trachsel in 5 years....he really isn't all that valueable when healthy, and he's not even healthy right now.

Then again, as a Mets fan, I hope their that stupid.

duncan isnt going to the giants and pujols will not be injured. the giants dont have anything to trade. dan johnson seems like the best option for them. he has potential and would be fairly cheap. man the giants suck.

Pujols already is injured. He needs Tommy John Surgery and would be better off getting it now and getting it out of the way when the Cards are in a down year.

Dan Johnson would be a great everyday player in the NL, but he's blocked in Oakland by Barton, Sweeney and whoever else, oh, and he has a 900 OPS at the Giants park, is Sabean REALLY this dumb?

As a Giant fan, I'd like to see the Giants try and get Steve Pearce, maybe in a deal with Neal Walker.

I'd expect any deal to start with Henry Sosa and then start adding others to that.

Would be OK with NJohnson, less so with DJonhnson. With NJ, would expect Giants to extend for 3 years.

Nick Johnson would be a nice addition. He's not old and can hit. If Giants can get him, they DFA Rich. Ortmeier can back up first.

As a Giant fan, I'd like to see the Giants try and get Steve Pearce, maybe in a deal with Neal Walker.

Posted by: aGIANTfan | April 06, 2008 at 02:46 PM

Sorry, but Mr. Pearce is off limits. And if you want Neil Walker so bad, learn to spell his name. Seeing Giants fans at least makes me feel a little better about my squad.

How about that Koshansky kid the Rockies have? I'm pretty sure he's a lefty...

I can't believe no one has said this one...Casey Kotchman. Before the Season started Sabean was talking to the Angles about him. He is the most obvious choice. Make this deal....

Giants trade: Bengie Molina, John Sanchez, and Brad Hennesy.

Angles trade: Casey Kotchman, Jeff Mathis.

This is a perfect deal. If the Giants are going to loose anyway, there is no reason to have pitchers that won't help in anyway. And getting Big Casey Kotchman would be a HUGE pickup for the Giants.

I think Dan Johnson is the only guy that they could get without having to touch their big league roster.

They'd give up Henry Sosa and some other prospects, but at least it wont hurt as much as having to give up what few good guys they have on the big league club

Im sure it wouldnt take much to pry NAte Gold or Jason Botts fromm the Rangers. Frank Catalanta is aviable to!

I agree that Chris Duncan could be had, and fits well.

He's a trainwreck in the outfield, and 1B is his natural position. It doesn't make sense to hold onto the guy just in case Albert goes down; Pujols has had the arm problem for several years now.

I bet the Cardinals might deal Duncan for Jonathan Sanchez straight up.

Unless the Giants are going to send back either Cain or Lincecum to the Bravos for Thorman and 1 or 2 more, I would make no deal.

Dan Johnson for Dan Ortmeier makes sense to me. Here's why.

The A's will need yet another starter to cover for Justin Duchscherer's bicep problem. Promoting Jason Windsor or Brad Halsey to serve as a swingman seems to make sense. Because Donny Murphy is slightly damaged right now, there's extra pressure to promote "The Maniac" Furmaniak for middle infield insurance. Furmaniak has covered for Buck, Chavez and others in 2007.

Now why does this have anything to do with Ortmeier? Here's why:

Johnson's "disappointing" 2007 blemishes his reputation and gives GM's a nice excuse to lowball his trade value. With Ortmeier, you have a guy the Giant's have been nurturing and hoarding for years, only to relegate to a reserve role for 2008 b/c of merely 9 games worth of silly spring training stats and the ongoing delusion that Aurelia/Castillo make a great pair of corner infielders. I had thought that maybe Beane could swap Dan Johnson for Merkin Valdez, but he's on Sabean's Valentine's Day love letter list this month with solid relief appearances. With Ortmeier on the A's farm, he can be brought up occasionally to back up first base if Barton's wrist acts up again. This way the A's have the upper hand in any trade for Ortemeier b/c he hasn't yet been tagged with the "disappointing season" label. And those several GMs who rely on astrology, phrenology and Farmer's Almanacs for guidance (e.g. Sabean) are likely to place inappropriate emphasis on this factor.

Further explaining my last post, I meant to say that the Duchscherer/Murphy situations need to be addressed right now so there's little or no time to hash out a move for a replacement starter or middle infielder that involves Dan Johnson. I'm suggesting that Beane use in-house solutions to his immediate problems, and take his sweet time leveraging a Dan Johnson trade. And Ortmeier's relative lack of MLB at bats works I think slightly in favor of a positive spin on "what he might do" versus the "what he hasn't done" that GMs can pin on D.J.

Every Giants post we have to repeat the same old things ...

The Angels aren't trying to trade Kotchman - the Giants were the ones interested.

The Angels don't want Molina. They already have a starting catcher who is better and costs about 90% less.

The Giants don't have the farm system or the ML talent to land Kotchman unless the deal is built around Cain or Lincecum. It's that simple. If the Giants want to hold onto their top 2 pitchers then there will be no deal.

The Giants going after Nick Johnson makes no sense. As others have pointed out - what good does it do for the Giants to win an extra 3-5 games at the cost of adding payroll and trading away what few precious resources they have?

The Giants should take an honest look at what they have and realize that there are only 2 paths. Option 1 is to blow up everything and start over. This would including eating some contract dollars AND being non-competitive for at least 2 years. Option 2 is to try and buy your way into being a competitive team. This would take tremendous resources since the team has so many gaps.

The third option is to stay the course. Let Cain and Lincecum reach FA or become too expensive to keep. Fill in gaps with mediocre, aging vets, and be content to win 75 games a year. The Giants assume the mantel that Baltimore carried so proudly for years ... a team with a high payroll that delivers ZERO results.

Dan Ortmeier will literally kill for a chance to be mentioned in the same sentence with the Rich Aurelias and Jose Castillos of this world. Dan Johnson will literally post a .260+, .350+, .450. line for anyone who cares for such things. Dan Ortmeier will literally display his surprising speed on the basepaths and in the outfield when he's not backing up at 1B or high fiving starters from his favorite warm spot on the pine. Dan Johnson will literally make the Aurelias, Kleskos, Hillenbrands and Snows of this world look like second-stringers over at AT&T Park. Dan Ortmeier will literally play just a few productive games at McCafee before he's flipped for value in a trade with some team like Washington that could use some health and flexibility at 1B. Dan Johnson will heal the secret hatred of the A's caused by the Zito acquisition. Dan Ortmeier will post OBPs in the low .300s for some team that has enough power elsewhere in the lineup to afford a first sacker with limited punch. Dan Johnson for Dan Ortmeier = the right thing to do.

Well, first off the giants aren't in a postion to really get any offensive player via trade, simply because all they have is 3 good pitchers and a huge amount of washed up veterans. I suppose i could see Dan Johnson, because he would be cheap, but they should really try to find a much better second baseman. Maybe they should reaquire Kent because he'll be a free agent after this season. At least thats what they usually do.

Sounds like someone has a mancrush on Dan Ortemeier doublesteel.

So the A's will trade a 1st baseman for another 1st baseman ? I thought the prob was that they had to many first baseman ?

When will Orte be backing up Barton ? When Sweeney and Barton are down ? I thought Cust plays a little 1st ?

I thought DJ was a luxury on a team with to many good firstbasemen, but thats just me i guess.

At first blush, swapping Dans doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you think of them only as backup 1Bs with no differences. But what differences there are! Ortmeier knows how to play the corner OF positions, unlike Johnson. Ortmeier is much faster in the field and around the bases than Johnson. Plus he doesn't have the "disappointing season" label that hangs around Johnson's neck like a Hawthornesque medallion of shame. You're not really comparing the same subspecies of fruit here. It's not so much of a mancrush on Ortmeier that spurs me to speak on the merits of a Dan-for-Dan swap. Both players have meager salary requirements and limited upside, so they won't command much trade value anyway. It's just that a backup 1B with the ability to spot start in the OF would help the A's more than a backup 1B who doesn't do much else. To be sure, it's only a matter of time before Mike Sweeney's legs go gimpy, Travis Buck suffers another one of his injuries caused by his "balls out" style of play and Cust is assigned to play his best fielding position (DH). So it's important to realize that the A's could use another guy besides Denorfia to back up Brown, R.Sweeney and Buck. You don't need to be as sharp as a D.A. to see how trading D.J. for D.O. helps Beane improve the use-value of one of his roster slots, freeing up another slot to bring in another arm or to give a hot hitting rook some MLB action to offset any injury or nasty slump suffered by one of the regular hitters.

The other 2 benefits of the trade are:

1. Ortmeier's speed and positional flexibility make him more valuable in the eyes of GMs who seek such things, and

2. To improve and promote good relations between the front offices of neighboring teams, leading hopefully to better mutually advantageous opportunities in future.

Any imbalances in the profit/loss sheet in a Dan-for-Dan trade are going to be relatively insignificant on the front end. That's why I'm interested in focusing on the longer-term impacts of such a transaction. Ever since the Quake Series these Bay Area teams have been somewhat close. It's time to put the Zito debacle behind Brian Sabean. This would be a nice Life Preserver to throw across the bay to help restore some competitive fire to a squad desperate for a solid bat and fresh face from outside the organization. The Giants need a Dan Johnson more than any other team and Beane won't be able to pry any arms away from a team that can't afford to lose any of the few good ones they still have. Whatever happens, some team needs to throw a bone to Sabean before opponents decide to treat a Giants game like a day at the batting cages.

I would not mind at all having Aurilla added to the braves roster as a bench player. However, if the the giants did not claim thorman off waivers, I am sure they are not going to be willing to give up much of anything in return for thorman.

BaseBallz,

Cust does play a little 1B, but Ortmeier is better as a defensive replacement to preserve a late lead. Again, I'm not hyping Ortmeier as a future Athletic. I'm arguing that he'd make better trade bait than DJ for GMs who could use a speedy backup with 1B/OF flexibility. Plus, I'm emphasizing that Ortmeier's paucity of MLB playing time helps him in the limited sense that because he hasn't had a "bad year" like D.J.'s 2007, that's one piece of evidence the stat-heads and analysts can't use against him like they can when assessing D.J.'s promise. Without having played more than a cup of coffee in the bigs, essentially Ortmeier is a MLB "virgin" and as such carries with him the promise (however unjustifiable by his minor league performance) of future improvement. Analyst's impressions of Dan Johnson's future improvement are sullied by his expanded playing time and "disappointing" results in 2007. Ortmeier at least does not carry this burden, making him a "purer" gamble to the minds of some GMs (who will remain nameless).

Sorry to drone on about Dan Johnson for Dan Ortmeier. But because it's futile to look for sizzle in this transaction, I'm trying to show that at least there's a bite of steak in the potential rewards for both teams. To use Ortmeier to full advantage, Beane would have to be interested in certain players on teams that could actually use an Ortmeier instead of a Johnson. Someone who you can pencil in front of a speedster in the lineup card without worrying that he'll impeded forward progress on the basepaths. Someone you can trust to not bobble away a narrow lead late in the game. Otherwise Beane is wise to hold onto Johnson to satisfy the demands of some other GM.

Sure, Johnson's OBP is better but he's a known commodity. While Ortmeier still has a chance to make or break his reputation with expanded playing time. Look at Johny Cueto in Cincinatti. How much MLB playing time did that guy have prior to his 7 inning 10 K premier? zippo. Sure, he put up a more impressive performance than Ortmeier at the lower levels, but making it to the bigs with even semi-regular playing time has a way of catalyzing an unexpected boost in one's expected level of performance. Ortmeier, just like any unproven player, has that kind of potential. And he's further motivated I think by a deep frustration at having to put with for so many years the Giants conflicted approach to him. A new organization with enhanced playing time could be the tipping point for Ortmeier.

And I do not have a man-crush on him! Curse the name of Brad Evans for promulgating this evil phrase.

MetsFutureGM,

I do think the Giants could use Betemit at 3b.

That would do one of 2 things:

(1) help Bochy use Castillo more productively as a bat off the bench, or

(2) give the Giants an excuse to punt Castillo and his Marvin Bernardesque inability to get on base as a regular starter.

DoubleSteel, why do you keep insisting that the A's did the Giants wrong with the Zito deal? Zito was a FREE AGENT. The Giants front office wasn't duped by the A's, as you continue to suggest. The A's (or the Giants, or any other club) are under no obligation to talk to any other club about a player that's no longer under contract.

As someone who's watch both the A's and Giants and lived in the Bay Area my whole life, there's never been evidence that the two teams "have been somewhat close." If anything, if the A's threw a "Life Preserver," the Giants would turn around and try to drown the A's. As Zonis and I pointed out in another related thread, the Giants damaged their relationship with the A's by refusing to give up their claim to eminent domain in the South Bay/San Jose, where the A's really want to move instead of Fremont. The A's, in good faith, gave the Giants the South Bay domain when the Giants were considering a move to Florida. The Giants have their stadium, why do they still need the South Bay domain?

Until Giants ownership/front offices changes, we'll never see the A's and Giants do any deals. Why the Giants and not the A's? Because the A's, with their business model and payroll restrictions, need as many willing trade partners as possible, and if the Giants had any worthwhile prospects that are 1-2 years away from the bigs, I think Beane would listen. But the Giants not only have no worthwhile prospects, they look upon the A's with disdain. Also, the A's have a backlog in the outfield (Buck, Sweeney, Denorfia, Brown, Cust, and Gonzalez in AAA but will be up before mid-season) as well as 1B. They have no use for a guy like Ortmeier.

The Giants should take a serious look at Jarrod Saltalamacchia of the Texas Rangers. The Giants need a first baseman AND a starting catcher-salty fits both. He was recently sent to the Rangers AAA minor leagues to make room for gerald laird. Might be a good time to try and pick him up

Romansempire: I’m with you entirely on assessing the Giants paucity of prospects, but I am plugging Dan Ortmeier because he might make a better teaser in a future trade than Dan Johnson. Replace one Dan with another. Their values are so low and upsides so limited that is wouldn’t hurt the A’s to do this. Take the Houston Street situation for example…Detroit needs bullpen help bad and they might agree to Beane’s asking price with a teaser like Ortmeier who could spell Guillen or I-Rod when their hamstrings snap. With Marcus Thames possibly gone by then, only Inge and Jacque Jones will be available for LF platoons and as backup for surgically-repaired-knees Ordonez and the (get well soon) 20-20-20-20 man in center, the Tigers might be able to use a 1b/of flexible guy like Ortmeier instead Johnson’s comparatively worse flexibility. One Dan might make a better teaser than the other. Repeating what I said before, Beane is in the best position to know which one works best.

But I suspect I’m putting too much emphasis on the importance of a peace offering between the A’s and Giants and not enough analysis into Ortmeier-for-Johnson. Maybe the peace negotiator in me is clouding my baseball judgment a little. Please know that the statements I made concerning Zito do not suggest the A’s are responsible in any way for the Giant’s attitude toward Zito. I wrote “[i]t's time to put the Zito debacle behind Brian Sabean” because he needs to be prodded. I wrote about “the secret hatred of the A's caused by the Zito acquisition” to draw attention to Sabean's irrational need to blame someone, anyone besides himself or his players. The thing I wanted to suggest to readers by these statements is that Sabean is capable of holding a completely irrational grudge (like hating the A’s for having enjoyed Zito’s good years and feeling cursed for blowing his $$ wad for a guy who can't seem to get anyone out. Such grudges stoke whatever other fires of animosity might be burning, like the open sore of the San Jose turf battle.

As for the comment that the teams are “somewhat close” I was stretching the meaning of the word “somewhat” a bit to avoid the hornets nest of bad blood you seem so eager to stir up. You’re dead on about a fractured relationship. But it’s not a dead one, yet. The things you do in the here and now can make all the difference. As evidence that the teams can work together, allow me to mention the Bay Bridge Series earthquake. It brought both teams’ management together in a brief joint effort to do what was right at a horrible time. Sure, afterwards they went right back to the pettiness of neighboring teams forced to deal with competing with each other for entertainment and concessions dollars in the same larger regional marketplace, a bothersome task not shared by many more geographically insular teams.

I’m an attorney who did some CRA work on the so-called “blighted” area in in and around oldtown San Jose, and I sometimes have dealings with the lobbying firm that represents the city of Fremont in Sacramento in its bid for a new stadium. The San Jose “turf” thing was a business decision and its not worth harping on the fact that it didn’t go the A’s way. I’m aware of some of these issues, including the lingering bad blood. But I consciously chose to focus my argument on what good can be done now. The revenge instinct might be a great motivation for some, like Moqtada al-Sadr’s martyr brigades in Iraq, but it’s not a particularly productive strategy for intelligent businessmen to pursue.

What I’d like to know is whether the baseball rules allow San Jose to build its own stadium, negate SF’s “turf claim” and bring in a team, like the Braves, which, owned by a holding company that cares as much about baseball as the old Nintendo geezer who used to own the Mariners, was a saleable commodity last time I checked the business section. You say that there won’t be any deals “[u]ntil Giants ownership/front offices changes.” Sometimes a change in perspective counts as a change, not necessarily requiring the removal and replacement of physical individuals. Much like how the legendary Alexander “untied” the Gordian Knot by slicing it with his sword instead of manipulating the knot with his fingers. If you’re saying that the Giants won’t even take Dan Johnson for Ortmeier (which definitely would improve the current crappy lineup), then I guess I’ll just have to trust you that no amount of forgive and forget from the East Bay will be good enough for those guys at AT&T, stewing in the bitter juice of a painful 2008 home opener.