Heyman's Worst-Ever Free Agent Deals

I'm just curious: What's so bad about the Vernon Wells contract? I assume it's a bit overvalued, but he's extremely productive and reliable, when healthy. No?

I agree, Vernon's contacts not too shabby... The Eric Hinske and Josh Towers years were a lot more questionable JP Ricciardi moves...

If Todd Helton is worth $19.1 million in 2011, I'll set myself on fire. It's going to be a hell of a lot worse when it's all said and done than most of the contracts that actually made the list, particularly since it's almost certainly going to hinder the Rockies' ability to re-sign players like Holliday.

My favorite thing about the Albert Belle contract was that the O's had to keep him on their 40-man roster for THREE YEARS after he retired so they could recoup the $37 million left on his deal in insurance.

Zito should be much higher on that list. Much higher.

Lugo's abysmal play warrants at least a mention. I'd agree you find 13 worst contracts, but Lugo is a joke.

Lugo doesn't belong on the list. Pavano's getting too much credit as well. The worst deals are those like Hampton and Park which hamstring teams on budgets. Pavano would be a disaster on any other team, but the Yankees can just move on. It doesn't hurt them that much.

Jay Gibbons had a bad contract. Tampa Bay handed out a few bad ones before they smartened up. Roberto Alomar's Mets deal was a disaster. David Bell with the Phillies as well.

Well here are some Vernon Wells stats to see how valuable he is to the jays

Vernon in wins: 2183AB .322/.370/.579 .949OPS 115HR 408RBI
Vernon in losses: 2049AB .241/.292/.375 .666OPS 45HR 187RBI

I have to say the D-back's signing of Russ Ortiz before the '05 season was the worst free agent signing ever....that should have been numero uno on his list...brutal...$33 million for four years. Ortiz pitched for 1 1/2 seasons...2005 he was 5-11 with a 6.89 ERA...first half of 2006 he was 0-5 at 7.54..then the D-backs dumped him, but then ate the rest of his $22 million...I think they're still paying that disaster ;-)

Jeffrey Hammonds to the Brewers for 3/$21M was ludicrous. A guy who couldn't stay healthy, and only productive years were in Colorado.

Dreifort was also ridiculous. 5/$55M for potential, yikes.

Dare I say: Pedro?

I don't see Adam Eaton and am shocked...a injury prone fly ball pitcher signed to pitch in CBP. His 07 numbers show clearly how valuable he was

Its too early to judge the Wells deal. If he produces, then whats not to like?

I'd say Colon's deal with the Angels should be considered bad. Sure he won a Cy Young but he never had an ERA under 5 in any of the other seasons.

rowand may turn into a pretty good deal. right now he is hitting poorly but that may be from his rib/groin injury. or i may just be an optomistic giants fan. at any rate i happy to see him in center instead of roberts. now zito i can only sigh and hope he feels bad and gives all the money back! oh and i know we can make a list on yankee blunders, but i think a list rivaling that would be the giants the last few years, so i may not be that optomistic.

Mike Mussina and Barry Zito are the terrible contracts. Can't think of many worse.

Heyman has pretty much solidified himself as an idiot to me. Albert Belle #3??? Yeah the Orioles only got two years out of the five, but they got every dime back for the years he didn't play and all it cost them was a spot on the 40 man roster. I mean, Heyman doesn't even justify why Belle should be third.
"Brought surly mood, diminished power and bad hip to Peter Angelos' brand of bad baseball."
Look at Belle's stats for those two years...not great but definitely not Mo Vaughn bad (Heyman probably though Mo deserved that MVP too). I don't see how getting one great year and one decent year out of a player right before he retires early due to injury is the third worst FA contract.

Not quite the high dollar, franchise-paralyzing deal that some of the others mentioned were, but Danys Baez to the O's for 3 years and $19 Million last off-season was absurd.

Coming off a season in which he spent time on the DL, converted on 9 save opportunities and blew 8, and had a horrible stretch run with ATL, interest in him was at a minimum. But Jim Duquette, probably the worst GM in the league at the time, bid against himself and gave Baez $6m+ per to come be the set up guy here in Baltimore.

I think that the Adam Eaton deal needs to be included in this as well. 3/24 for maybe the worst pitcher in a starting rotation in all of baseball.

But I gotta say that Darren Dreifort was the worst deal ever. Not only because he gave the Dodgers NOTHING after he signed that deal, but simply for the fact that he was mediocre even before the deal. It'd be like giving $55M to Brandon Backe. When healthy, he's a decent back of the rotation starter, but he's never healthy. And LA thought it'd be a good idea to sign that guy for five years.

Too early to mention Carlos Lee's deal with the Astros? No way he doesn't get dealt as soon as his no trade clause is out in 2010. Actually, it might not actually belong on the list if that's the case...

Not only is it to early to count Carlos Lee but it would probably be pretty silly. The Astros have gotten what they paid for 100%. The man has been rock solid in a 'Stros uni. And it's not like the Astros were wrong in signing him, they made the WS in 2005 and just missed the playoffs in 2006. Getting a big bat like Lee to put in a weak OF was a good move.

Vernon Wells?? comeon Tim.

The 128 million dollar extension STARTS in 2008 and he is arguably the leagues best hitter so far. How is that fair to even mention him?

I have a couple other minor points to add. To balance out defending the Belle contract, I'm more than willing to throw Baez and Gibbons to the wolves, although Gibbons is defensible. The O's have a history of bringing players back for one contract too long - David Segui is another good example of a bad O's contract.

Second, in the same thread I got that excellent rebuttal I posted above, I found this gem: "I'd have to say that Sports Illustrated's 2006 signing of Jon Heyman has to land somewhere on this list."

:D

I gotta say Aaron Rowand is crapping out and will show up on the list sooner then later

All in all, my top-15 probably goes:
1) Garland / Indians
2) Hampton / Rockies
3) Denny Neagle / Rockies (5YR/51M for 3 years of 5.6-ish ERA and 1.47 WHIP over only 65 starts. Then the whole prostitute thing, the drunk driving, the court battles over his owed salary; plus now the Mitchell Report… Very deserving of #3 on the list)
4) Navarro / ChiSox
5) Ortiz / DBacks
6) Park / Texas
7) Pavano / Yankees
8) Vaughn / Angels
9) Strawberry / Dodgers
10) Bonillia / Mets
11) Zito / Giants (Its early on this one, but… His work ethics means his health should hold up better than most pitchers, so atleast they will probably get something close to 7 years worth of him pitching ~ but… Well, gotta be top-15 because of that amount)
12) Kaz Matsui / Astros (Again early, but… well… umm, 32YO who has averaged less than 400 AB a year with a .272/.325/.387 line ~ which that was even greatly inflated by a season in Colorado. And that means 3YR/16.5M? Plus he starts his Stros career on the DL? This one could move up the list quickly…)
13) Jaret Wright / Yankees (why did they do this one? Everyone knew this would never work. Thankfully the NY teams always have the O’s they can dump these bad contracts on ~ they took Benson from the Mets too…)
14) Alfonso Soriano / Cubs (we are just starting year 2 of 8, and already it looks like half his game –the Speed- is going to be greatly effected. Another good possibility to move up the list sometime in the near future)
15) Dreifort / Dodgers (not a true FA signing so only gets the last spot ~ but so bad it has to make the list…)

Honorable mention goes to the Angels for the Shea Hillenbrand contract. Cant make the list because it was only one year ~ but WTF were they thinking giving him 6.5M?

Eric Milton - Reds! Even casual Reds fans knew that was a terrible move to bring a fly-ball pitcher to GABP. It turned out worse than imagined.

I'd also put Jaret Wright on the list (although I shed no tears for the Yankees). He had one good year and they gave him a 4-year deal. Dumb.

"Anybody who has Alfonso Soriano on this list is a baseball moron. He can still hit 40 HRs, bat .300, and have 20 outfield assists. And though he will not steal 40 bases anymore, he's still fast and can easily steal 20. He's an ALL-STAR and carries his team when hot. In 5-6 years his salary will be considered quite low as other salaries climb. Before then he will likely lead the Cubs to the playoffs 4-5 times, and maybe a World Series. OMG mentioning his contract in this is moronic."

I love how cubs fans are uncannily optimistic and always seem to laugh in the face of logic and reason.

How 'bout a new list.
"Athletes who injured themselves while leaping in celebration of a routine play."
1) Bill Gramatica
2) Alfonso Soriano

I'm not saying Lee's deal is bad at this point, but he's a butcher at LF and he's only going to get worse. He won't live up to the contract in the end.

I'll go with Darren Dreifort. In his age 26-28 seasons, Dreifort put up ERA+ of 101, 90 and 105. League average production in years that should have been-- and turned out to be-- his prime.

For their $55M the Dodgers got about 200 innings of mediocre relief and a giant hole in their rotation, making this signing the worst of all time in my opinion. Similar pitchers to Darren Dreifort: Dave Mlicki, Kent Bottenfield, Elmer Dessens, Miguel Batista.

If Dreifort is #1, then Pavano is #1A. At least Pavano was coming off a year when he was an All-Star and finished 6th in Cy Young voting. Dreifort never even had one really good season.

How is 07 Clemens not way up on this list? The highest paid player in the majors at 6-6.
The only way they could have made this any worse would be by having Clemens announcing it over the PA in the middle of a game.

Belle belongs nowhere near this list. He wasn't showing diminished skills when the contract was signed and he produced in the years the Orioles actually had to pay for.

Soriano also seems like a whipping boy on this board, and I have no idea why. He still shows all 5 tools, and has settled into the outfield very well.

As for the ones that have actually been bad, there are plenty.

1. Dreifort: It was a sign of things to come, Dodger management freaking out about market issues they thought would bite them. Same thing happened when they signed Pierre to replace Drew. BTW, Dreifort was technically a free agent signing, because he was granted free agency that year.

2. Hampton: Actually, this is a bit unfair. Hampton was a hell of a pitcher in Houston and for the Mets and probably should have won the Cy Young over the Unit in 1999. The problem was that he went for the money in pre-humidor Colorado. If anything, the Dodgers should have given him the money, plus some, that they gave Dreifort. Things may have been very different then.

"How is 07 Clemens not way up on this list? The highest paid player in the majors at 6-6."

...It was pro-rated to the number of starts, it was only one year, and although he didnt pitch amazingly, the team did go on its tear as soon as it was announced he had signed it. Bad contract for sure, but not even close to the others.

i meant sure he wasnt a free agent, not draft pick

baseballismylyf4, Sexson deal: 52MM not 80MM across 4 years. You were only 28MM off, but it's cool. Also, he definitely earned his money in 2005 and 2006 with 35+ HR, 100+ RBI seasons and solid if not GG caliber defense! Last year he missed 1/4 of the season and still hit 21 HRs and 63 RBIs. While his average was low, everything else would've been on par for career averages and yes, he is nothing amazing, but he is consistant.

Worst contract... EVER!! was Alex Rodriguez... Spare me the greatest player crap. He's never been clutch and in fact I dreaded his at bats when he played for my Mariners during the post-season and last year is a prime example... 10 years x 28MM + a 30MM bonus for averaging 24-25 homeruns a season and he's going to be well into his 40s while they are paying that. What really does it, is the fact that all the other bad contracts only make his worse!

If you notice, the other GMs in baseball have tailored back their spending except for Dumbrowski in Detroit, Cashman in New York, Epstein in Boston, Tony Reagins in Anaheim, and Ned Colletti in LA.

Reagins shouldn't count though because he signed Hunter before Thanksgiving and Torii knew it was the best deal and that's why he signed even though he was going to wait until after the holiday.

Colletti signed Jones on the 6th of December, so again it was their fault for diving into the FA pool. Almost every other player signed after that except Alex, Jorge, Mariano, and Johan were 12MM or less. Cashman outbid himself by far on all three as no one was ready to come within 50MM of their offer or Alex wouldn't have sucked it up and went back to NY with his tail between his legs. Mariano had ZERO offers for three years from any other team that was above 10-12MM and they paid 15MM x 3 for a guy that throws three fastballs (4 seam, 2 seam, and cutter), and the same holds true for Jorge a career year for a catcher who is getting older and won't even play a position by next season (he'll DH).

As far as Santana, he's one of the best pitchers in the game (I still think Peavy, Haren, Webb, and Beckett are better now), even though he only had 2/3 of his games count as quality starts 23 out of 33 to be exact, and of course his leverage in negotiations considering he could veto a trade if they weren't willing to meet his terms were all factors in what I consider to be a crazy deal! I hope to God you people are done talking about Sabathia making 20MM a season after the first four starts he's had so far!

The point is that these are all examples of ignorant decisions by GMs with too much money to spend per the owners stupidity. In most cases you can't even label it as ignorance on the part of the owners as they don't have the rudimentary knowledge of how to appropriate funds in a sports market.

For those that want to argue wealth comes with good business sense... Art Moreno made his fortune selling billboards across the southwest. This is hardly relevant to running a team and it's shown with all their bad contracts starting with the 4 year 45MM deal given Escobar, who has been injured way too much and the 5 year 55MM given Matthews Jr. When it's all said in done they are paying Escobar for a combined 2 years worth of starts or 22.5MM a season with two full year DL stints when sizing up the full contract.

Owners are scared to give bad money to players now and only rare talents like Ichiro will truly earn their contract as 18MM is steep, but you know you what you get with him. 7 seasons = 1 - MVP, 1 - ROY, 2 - SS awards, 7 - GGs, 7 AS games, 7 - 100+ run seasons, 7 - 30+ SB seasons, 7 - 200+ hit seasons, 7 - .300+ AVG seasons, 7 - .350+ OBP., and never played less than 157 games in a year. Consistency at the least and amazing on more than one occasion!

Don't be suprised if only three to four players this coming free agent year make more than 12-13MM a season and nothing over 5 years. I can think of Mark Teixeira (16MM x 6), C.C. Sabathia (15MM x 5), Francisco Rodriguez (14MM x 5), and Oliver Perez (14MM x 5) making more than that, but I think the days of 20MM players is done for a while. Even the dumb GMs I listed aren't going to make the same mistakes and look at what Miguel Cabrera got as an example, just less than 20MM a season and that was by the free spending Tigers!

My point with A-Rod is bad contracts will scare owners and bring the top salaries down and no one will make within 10MM of what he does for the next 5 years! Sorry for the long post, but it's a complicated topic accessing the value of a player to a franchise.

That's 99 RBIs per season including 2004 but without he's averaged 92 RBIs and the HR average was for just his time in Seattle. I bet this year he hits 30 HRs, 110 RBIs, and hits .320 with a .360 OBP.

"10 years x 28MM + a 30MM bonus for averaging 24-25 homeruns a season and he's going to be well into his 40s while they are paying that"

what makes you think he's going to hit 24-25 homeruns a season? he's only hit less than 35 once in his career and that was eleven years ago. he has too good of a work ethic and loves himself and his stats too much to let that happen.

Honestly, I have to take Baseballguru's comments with a grain of salt. He obviously is homering for the M's. While I do agree that Ichiro is worth every penny because he makes that team money and will keep on performing at this level for the life of the contract, how in the world do you think Beltre was a good sign. If defense were worth 7 million a year, why is Omar Vizquel making less than 6? Why did John McDonald make less than a million last year?

As far as Reagins being characterized as a "dumb" GM, remember two things. One, Hunter is living up to the contract so far this season. Two, he isn't the one who signed Matthews in the first place, and even that isn't looking so bad right now since Matthews isn't being asked to lead off or protect Vlad. The real problem with those two is that they block Willits and (to a lesser extent) Rivera. That said, Anderson may well retire at the end of the season, or perhaps leave for a team willing to pay him close to the 14 million he would get if the Angels picked up his option. Either way, the Angels picked the best OFer on the market not named Bonds and it has allowed them to rest their other stars.

homering for the Mariners?! How about you and jumping on the Torii Hunter bandwagon after 2 WEEKS!! Your opinion means nothing and you don't know what you're talking about! Also, Hunter's after 16 games which is EXACTLY 1/10 of a season has a .295 AVG, 2 - 2B, 4 - HR, 8 RBI, .368 OBP... Multiplied out he'd hit .295 with a .368 OBP, 20 doubles, 40 homeruns, and 80 RBIs. What crap are you smoking to think that 80 RBIs and 60 XBHs are satisfactory for 18MM a season?! That would mean that half the league is worth 18MM! Also he is responsible for the Matthews Jr. contract because he brought in another outfielder while he had a full outfield, that over crowding made Matthews Jr. the most expensive bench player in the league, even if he does play DH a lot...

By the way, here's contracts I like, even though it's a misguided topic and everyone says I'm a Mariner fan, so I'll show an open mind and tell you who makes A LOT of sense!

JOSH BECKETT, GREAT CONTRACT
DAVID ORTIZ, GREAT CONTRACT
ROBINSON CANO, GREAT CONTRACT
CARLOS PENA, GREAT CONTRACT
GRADY SIZEMORE, GOOD CONTRACT
JOHNNY PERALTA, GOOD CONTRACT
FAUSTO CARMONA, GREAT CONTRACT
GIL MECHE, AMAZING CONTRACT
JUSTIN MORNEAU, GOOD CONTRACT
CARLOS BELTRAN, GREAT CONTRACT
CHIPPER JONES, GOOD CONTRACT
ETC.
ETC.
ETC.

And so no one can argue against Beltre being anything like Crede, Inge and Feliz, I figured I should do this…

Taking the 162G Average (from BB-R) for each player and spreading it over 600 AB (The amount Beltre holds) we see this:

Beltre ~ 600 AB, 33 2B, 3 3B, 25 HR, 89 RBI, 79 R (at Avg $12.8M a year)
Crede ~ 600 AB, 31 2B, 1 3B, 28 HR, 93 RBI, 77 R (Makes about 7.7M less)
PFeliz ~ 600 AB, 31 2B, 3 3B, 23 HR, 87 RBI, 73 R (Makes about 8.6M less)
BInge ~ 600 AB, 29 2B, 6 3B, 18 HR, 75 RBI, 70 R (Makes about 6.8M less)

That was creative Darkstar, here's career numbers, maybe a little more representative! Percentages are based on career and other stats are averaged based on seasons with ATLEAST 100 games played! FYI, players who play in 100 or more games are starters and any games not played after 100 was due to injury would should be factored into your averages and will be accounted for in that way!

Your projections mean nothing if the players hurt all the time, that's like comparing Ben Sheets versus Greg Maddux talking about how much better he'd be IF he played in all the games he was SUPPOSED to start. I don't care what you would do, only what you did do...

No surprise being able to look to you for faulty thinking, Darkstar! Oh and I'm familiar with baseball-reference.com, not very good at thinking for yourself are you?! By the way, what do you consider defense to be worth?! 2-3MM?!

It would probably be fair to say that Beltre saves 1 run a game because of his defense, I can name off the top of my head at least 12 runs that didn't score because of catches like the one today which robbed Torii Hunter of a double down the line...

How about last season where he threw out a runner from 140 feet away in the Blue Jays series... FROM HIS BACK... As in laying on his back! It was a close call that the umpire botched, but the throw beat him and it was so shocking that the umpire wasn't ready to make the call and he missed it!

Feliz is serviceable, Inge is solid in a Willie Bloomquist/Nick Punto way, and Crede is serviceable at best. Also when Crede signed his contract he had no leverage due to arbitration, that wasn't free agency money.

You take Feliz's contract and he was offered way more than what he got, but his agent was a douchebag and held out for the big deal and there was no buyers when he was a seller.

He left about 10MM on the table by the time he signed because he wanted a 3rd year and the offer that would've given him 9MM was no longer there because of the owners being smart as stated in the previous post, but good selective vision!

Inge was also an arbitration signing and they ditched arbitration to wrap up his last year in the contract. Name me the 3B like Cabrera who'll make a couple hundred thousand less than 20MM for the next 8 seasons and can't play half the 3B position let alone man it with half the ability of Beltre!

Where's Alex in these discussions considering he's one of the worst 3B in the game defensively and is make 28-31MM a season and his defense is worth minusing 1 run, 1 rbi, or 1 hr from his stat column for every game he plays defensively. He's given away more runs per season than he's scored and I've seen the games that prove it! By the way, I LOVE how you just "FORGOT" to put in batting averages and OBPs with your "FAIR" choice of statistics! Wow is that a 20 point drop in average and 50 point drop in OBP career between Beltre and Feliz, yeah you're a fool Darkstar!

Oh and what teammate called him lazy or whinny?! He's considered to be the team leader here, his fav. player is Edgar Martinez and that's why he forced Boras to take less money to come to Seattle, his best friend is Odalis Perez who pitched in L.A. while he was there and all his teammates were glad to see him when we played them the last couple years and in addition to that, they were way upset when the Dodgers just let him go!

By the way, he's been like a brother to Yuniesky Betancourt, Jose Lopez, and Wladimir Balentien... He's helped them with their approach to hitting and fielding and made the transition easier for them to the big leagues, ALSO they said their families being so far away was easier since Beltre took them under his wings like a "Big Brother", how do you get away with generalizing and the other stupid insinuations that you make?! You want to win so bad that you just make up stuff to pile it on. Beltre is a good person and his first season in Seattle was a little slow in getting off the ground because his child was born a month into the season, after that he hit almost .300 the rest of the way, let alone the fact that his numbers have continued to go up every year and he's a smart baserunner which doesn't figure into statistics!

You should also consider that Beltre has been getting better and is just about to peak as he's now 29 this season where as Feliz was 29 in his first full season, where as you are comparing a talented young guy in Beltre to a player in the prime of his career. Beltre should've been beating up on AAA pitchers in the minors like most early 20 year olds and to match his past with another MLB starters prime years and have them hold up only substantiates my claims that you're a fool Darkstar.

Beltre(averages date back to before he could legally buy booze) ~ .272 AVG, .327 OBP, 76 R, 31 2B, 3 3B, 23 HR, 85 RBI, 10 SB

Feliz(prime time years of average league starter) ~ .252 AVG, .288 OBP, 69 R, 32 2B, 3 3B, 21 HR, 84 RBI, 2 SB

Crede(poor man's Beltre with no defensive ability or speed) ~ .260 AVG, .306 OBP, 66 R, 27 2B, 1 3B, 23 HR, 75 RBI, 1 SB

Inge(blind version of Beltre... MAYBE!!) ~ .242 AVG, .305 OBP, 59 R, 23 2B, 5 3B, 16 HR, 64 RBI, 6 SB

OH AND SPEAKING OF www.baseball-reference.com, I love how your deceitful ass ignored the bottom of Beltre's page when you went there to gather statistics and I know you did because they are the only site that does it like that and it's a favorite of Tim's to go there, so anyways, here's the real list of similar players...

These are players who have had similar careers to Beltre statistically, but most of these players retired, where as Beltre will be with a much more elite group of players in terms of career stats when he's done!

01) Eric Chavez
02) Kevin McReynolds
03) Mike Lowell
04) Carl Everett
05) Doug DeCinces
06) Rondell White
07) Rich Aurilia
08) Brian Jordan
09) Ken Keltner
10) Torii Hunter

These are players he compares favorably to by his current age of 28 when the season ended last year.

01) Ron Santo*
02) Reuben Sierra*
03) Cal Ripken***
04) Eric Chavez*
05) Johnny Bench***
06) Scott Rolen*
07) Miguel Tejada**
08) Ivan Rodriguez**
09) Andruw Jones**
10) Vern Stephens

*** = current hall of famer
** = guaranteed to make HOF
* = should make it into HOF

But really, he’s “similar” to those players only because of the counting stats, and his counting stats are high since the asinine amounts he has made means he is in the game all the time and because he was putting up his crappy rates since he was a teen. He has no similarities to guys like Ripken, Bench, Soto or hardly anyone else on that list though ~ Beltre is a joke compared to those guys. I mean, Beltre and his career .327/.460 OBP/SLG is somehow similar to the .372/.507 OBP/SLG Rolen carries? Hahaha… Yeah, great point man! LOL…

…On the other hand, I do think you inadvertently gave a really good comparison to Beltre though ~ Kevin McReynolds! Sure, he didn’t play when he was 19, but otherwise his lines are extremely similar… Couple semi-respectable years, but mainly an OBP around .320-.330 and a SLG in the .450 range. Sadly, McReynolds did it in a much tougher park to hit in though, so all in all I would have to give much more credit to Kevin for his marks…

Seriously, just give it a rest though. There is no getting around it, you can get Crede, Inge or Feliz at a fraction of the cost and they will provide very similar numbers. You can give lists of guys that Beltre is nothing like all you want, its not gonna change that. And yeah, paying more than twice as much for similar production to a bunch of guys that aren’t wanted by their teams is, well, stupid. The M’s were extremely stupid to sign Beltre to that contract, and it is one of the worst current contracts in baseball. 12.8 Million for a OBP floating around .310??? Hahaha, yeah keep showing your “intelligence” by arguing in favor of that one… hahaha…

“You know what, that was a weak reply, even for you! I mean I've heard some thrown together crap theories, but that just made you look desperate and foolish! It's funny that you copied everything I said because you are too dumb to think for yourself.”

…WTF are you talking about? Can you even provide a single sentence that makes sense??? I didn’t copy anything you posted. Infact I didn’t even really read it… I got about two paragraphs in, realized it was yet another post of 4 thousands words about ten-thousand miles away from reality and just skimmed the rest ~ just like I did with this piece of crap book you just gave. It isnt worth reading your spiel, it never makes sense and is instead you trying to give thousands of words that say nothing to cover the fact that you don’t have a point or basis for your statements. Everyone feels the same, and next to no one ever reads your posts ~ you know that, people only tell it to you like every single time you post your nonsense dribble… So you had posted some crap about how Beltre is supposedly like Santos and all in your previous book, and I gave the actual stats which obviously show otherwise. Seems you still are trying to argue it for some reason, leads me to believe you are either too much of a Mariners-homer, or just flat out stupid, to see fact. But, I’ll give it once more just incase you are actually able to grasp some form of reality for once in your life:

(Rank by OPS+)
164 OPS+ .313/.398/.564 ~ Santo 64 @24
163 OPS+ .334/.388/.629 ~ **Beltre 04 @25 (Beltre’s fluke contract year)
161 OPS+ .312/.412/.538 ~ Santo 66 @26
153 OPS+ .300/.395/.512 ~ Santo 67 @27
146 OPS+ .285/.378/.510 ~ Santo 65 @25
128 OPS+ .297/.339/.481 ~ Santo 63 @23
126 OPS+ .246/.354/.421 ~ Santo 68 @28
________________________________________125 OPS+ Mark
112 OPS+ .276/.319/.482 ~ **Beltre 07 @28
105 OPS+ .268/.328/.465 ~ **Beltre 06 @27
097 OPS+ .257/.303/.426 ~ **Beltre 02 @23
093 OPS+ .255/.303/.413 ~ **Beltre 05 @26
088 OPS+ .240/.290/.424 ~ **Beltre 03 @24

…Now, because you apparently don’t know what this means ~ it means Santos was a lot better than Beltre. And I mean A LOT!!! Beltre holding an OPS+ average of about 100 over the last 6 years shows that his numbers are just around LgAvg at best, nothing more… Shoot, Santos only had 4 of 15 years with an OPS+ under 110, Beltre has only topped it 3 times, period ~ and that’s barley topping it… Beltre hasn’t gotten over 115 outside that fluke season, Santos posted a career 125…

(Rank by OBP)
161 OPS+ .312/.412/.538 ~ Santo 66 @26
164 OPS+ .313/.398/.564 ~ Santo 64 @24
153 OPS+ .300/.395/.512 ~ Santo 67 @27
163 OPS+ .334/.388/.629 ~ **Beltre 04 @25 (Beltre’s fluke contract year)
146 OPS+ .285/.378/.510 ~ Santo 65 @25
126 OPS+ .246/.354/.421 ~ Santo 68 @28
128 OPS+ .297/.339/.481 ~ Santo 63 @23
________________________________________.330 OBP Mark
105 OPS+ .268/.328/.465 ~ **Beltre 06 @27
112 OPS+ .276/.319/.482 ~ **Beltre 07 @28
097 OPS+ .257/.303/.426 ~ **Beltre 02 @23
093 OPS+ .255/.303/.413 ~ **Beltre 05 @26
088 OPS+ .240/.290/.424 ~ **Beltre 03 @24

…Now, because you apparently don’t know what this means ~ it again means Santos is a lot better than Beltre. And I mean A LOT!!! Beltre holding an OBP under .330 in 5 of the last 6 years is, well, rather pitiful…

(Rank by SLG)
163 OPS+ .334/.388/.629 ~ **Beltre 04 @25 (Beltre’s fluke contract year)
164 OPS+ .313/.398/.564 ~ Santo 64 @24
161 OPS+ .312/.412/.538 ~ Santo 66 @26
153 OPS+ .300/.395/.512 ~ Santo 67 @27
146 OPS+ .285/.378/.510 ~ Santo 65 @25
________________________________________.500 SLG Mark
112 OPS+ .276/.319/.482 ~ **Beltre 07 @28
128 OPS+ .297/.339/.481 ~ Santo 63 @23
105 OPS+ .268/.328/.465 ~ **Beltre 06 @27
097 OPS+ .257/.303/.426 ~ **Beltre 02 @23
126 OPS+ .246/.354/.421 ~ Santo 68 @28
088 OPS+ .240/.290/.424 ~ **Beltre 03 @24
093 OPS+ .255/.303/.413 ~ **Beltre 05 @26

…Now, because you apparently don’t know what this means ~ it once more means Santos is a lot better than Beltre. And I mean A LOT!!! Beltre topped the .500 mark once in the last 6 years, Santos did it 4 of 6 years leading up to his age 29 season. No comparison here, just like the others…

BaseballGuru

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