The Harden Situation

The Braves have been linked to him multiple times in recent years, and I wish we would have gotten him at a reasonable price, but can understand why we would not want him because of how many pitching woes braves pitchers have had. He is an awesome pitcher, so whoever gets him definitely is in line to boost their chances. However, when they need him the most down the stretch, i just have a feeling some will either overuse him or he will tire out. And i do agree, If beane asked for hughes and joba for Blanton, he will go crazy with his demands for harden.

here's the dilemma...

harden tons of upside, ace type, but you still dont know what you are getting due to the injuries

hile blanton upside is less and not as dominant. you already know what you are getting. 200 + in/yr around a 4era or less. #2/#3 SP type

both blanton/harden pitched as welll as you could expect against red sox. but harden got more attention because more K's of course. if A's had any offense they wouldve take 3 out of 4, not the other way around

both pithers should get a haul of prospects if traded.if harden is heathy, they might be more aggressive hopping him due the expensive 09 option. than banton who still has 3 yrs till FA

either of these two would look great on the Cubs.

I know this is the Cubs fan in me talking but Cubs should aquire him for the rotation. Could you imagine
a great 1-2 combo with Z and Harden with a good veteran like Lilly.
Carlos Zambrano
Rich Harden
Ted Lilly
Ryan Dempster
Rich Hill

I think a trade like this
Tyler Colvin
Eric Patterson
Sean Gallagher
Jose Ceda
for
Rich Harden

The Cubs should trade their AAA team for Harden. The more mediocre prospects, the better, right?

Feel happy about getting harden in the last round of my three drafts now!
What about his fantasy trade value Tim?

haveabowl.blogspot.com Australian sports blogging at its finest....

That guy who said that Hughes+Kennedy++ was the "going rate" must be insane or an A's fan. No way Yanks trade either, much less both. They would rather trade Tabata or Jackson + the other minor league pitchers, I would imagine.

"I know this is the Cubs fan in me talking but Cubs should aquire him for the rotation. Could you imagine
a great 1-2 combo with Z and Harden with a good veteran like Lilly.
Carlos Zambrano
Rich Harden
Ted Lilly
Ryan Dempster
Rich Hill"

I could see something like that too simply because it'd be so potentially dominant. I would probably prefer your suggestion for a trade but I honestly think it'd end up going something like this:

Cubs get: Rich Harden, Coco Crisp
Athletics get: Felix Pie, Jose Ceda, Eric Patterson
Red Sox get: Matt Murton, Ryan Dempster

I think they have enough elite pitchers in Gio Gonzalez, Brett Anderson and Fautino De Los Santos. Maybe substitute Sean Gallagher for Ceda if he wants a starter. The Cubs could easily have the goods to get Harden if they're willing to move Pie.

"I think they have enough elite pitchers in Gio Gonzalez, Brett Anderson and Fautino De Los Santos"

Yah, im sure Beane sees it the same way:

"Now that i got me some good elite pitchers, i need some mediocre ones !
Can't have a staff of all good pitchers, how will we tell who's the ace ? We need a point of contrast. I want Gallagher !"

Yeah this is becoming ridiculous, cubs fans need to chill.

Another interesting trading partner with Oakland could potentially be the Rays, the only team with a better farm system than Oakland (or so says BP). Harden & Street for Price or Davis, Jennings and Brignac? Oaklands a little weak in prospects in the middle INF and CF area and brignac would be a great pickup.

Gallagher has solid #3 starter written all over him, Ceda is going to be a dominant closer, Veal is a good pitcher (discount last year as both of his parents died.. touch to put up good numbers when you have that much going on in your personal life) and Colvin has been compared to a Lance Berkman type player. Thats a pretty strong starting point. If the Cubs werent in a position to win it all this year I would want to keep them all, but sometimes you have to overpay. Tell me why Im so far off, oh great one.

This is great! As an O's fan, I had to deal with all of these Cubs fans talking up their prospects during the Roberts debacle. Wonderfully entertaining to just sit back and let someone else have to deal with it for a change.

Who said Tyler Colvin is a Lance Berkman-type, Sabinus?! I think you've got the wrong Astro; the players he's most often compared to are Steve Finley and Shawn Green. I think you're thinking of Finley...who's a good player, but no Berkman. Colvin isn't projected to have anywhere near Berkman's bat at this point. I like the kid, but his K:BB numbers are terrifying and the general consensus is that he's boom or bust...like Veal.

He's the most interesting name continually bandied about by Cubs fans. You guys think he's got this great value, while the rest of baseball has all but written him off after last year. If he comes back in '08, putting up numbers like he did in '06, you're right; still, few outside of Chicago are optimistic. It wasn't just some bereavement/mental thing. His big curveball vanished. Not to mention he's got a big ass warning sign on him due to the labrum injury he had in college.

I agree that the Cubs have the personnel to get a deal done for Harden, but I also tend to side with the A's fans when it comes to the specific players you're talking about.

Oh, and if you want to get specific... I think the A's would be absolutely thrilled with one of...

A)Harden to NYY for Kennedy, Jackson/Tabata, and Horne/Marquez (Betances a longshot). A nice group but not TOO nice, considering Harden's injury history. Problem here is the Santana non-trade; it'll be difficult explaining this deal when Cashman wouldn't go all in for Santana.

B)Harden to Cincy for Homer Bailey, Todd Frazier and either Kyle Lotzkar or Drew Stubbs. Doesn't kill Cincy long-term, but A's get an ace-caliber arm, and two nice secondary prospects likely to crack next year's Top 100. Both Lotzkar and Stubbs were former 1st rounders (or supp. 1st)

C)Harden to Chicago for Colvin/Pie, Ceda, Veal, and Thomas/Donaldson. Colvin and Donaldson are nice, Top 100 type bats with ? but upside, Ceda is the future closer, and Veal is the boom/bust arm to round out the group.

Harden's great and his value WILL rise if he's healthy, but he's never going to get No. 1 starter value; the injury risk is simply too high. Beane knows this and is smart enough to get as much value as he can...

The injury angle will probably scare Philly, NYM, Boston, and LAA away from Harden. I went with Chicago, NYY, and Cincy because the Yanks and Cubs have the $$$ to ignore the risk and Cincy might throw caution to the wind (a bit- Bailey is in the doghouse and Frazier's blocked, so it won't kill them) if it means taking the next step...

Thanks for your input Milehigh.. essentially you swaped Gallagher for Thomas/Donaldson from where I started my proposal. Im fine with that. Im not saying mine would be the deal, but it would be a place to start negotiations.

And John Difford, it seems like most of the people here are cubs fans. If you see rumors that have something to do with the Cubs they have quite a few comments.. those that dont have very few comments.

Hey milehigh78, I dont think the A's are going to get Cueto, Joba or Hughes etc, these are the deals BEANE himself was sending to these teams that think the A's can be bent over and they will just take any old offer for their chips.

Its not me thinking that Cueto, Votto and Bailey for Blanton was a deal on the table, IT WAS a deal on the table! I read about it on this very site! There are a ton of dumb GMs out there Beane is always looking to hose somebody (like the Swisher deal). Why did the A's get a 10x better package for Haren than the Twins got for the best pitcher in baseball?

The Ray are so swimming with prospects I think if Beane threw a Harden+Street package at them they would be interested. Not for Price or anything like that but maybe Davis or Bignac.

"Frankly, I think all of that Hughes and Joba talk is garbage or just Beane's way of telling Cashman that it'll be expensive. He's a smart cat and knows he ain't getting either of the Yankees' real gems." - See, now you're understanding Beane's position. Why did you write "OMG A'S FANS ARE CRAZY" in your first paragraph? This was why he did that. He probably has a BLUE CHIPS OR BUST bumper sticker on his car. Who are the Yanks blue chips? Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, Horne etc.

I think people need to look at how weak the A's are in middle INF depth and work out comments based on that.