Cubs Sign Edmonds

No. Nnnnnnnnnnnno. No thanks.

I threw up a little the first time I heard it, and now I just threw up a little again. Just that little bit where it comes up into your throat, not a full blown trip to the porcelain pot but I could imagine that happening if he does sign.

i would it if they signed him. Stick that bat in the middle and the lineup could become even more dangerous
1.Soriano
2.Theriot
3.Lee
4.A-Ram
5. Fukudome
6. Edmonds
7. Soto
8. DeRosa

Soto in 7th thats crazy for that good of a hitter and DeRosa hitting 8th thats just unjust

I would rather see Pie swinging and missing then Edmonds.

I'd rather see them pull Bob Dernier out of retirement than go for Edmonds.

bleedcubbie: I feel the need to point out that adding Edmonds doesn't make your lineup better. Adding a .178 hitter isn't an improvement.

With Reed Johnson, this makes no sense whatsoever. Edmonds is old and washed up

If they REALLY can't stand to give Pie a chance much longer and just freakin' HAVE to go get a middle aged left handed hitting CF'er, then howzabout Kenny Lofton? You want Pie to become a Kenny Lofton style hitter? Then go get Kenny Lofton. Makes more sense to me. But I still think it's unneccessary. Give Pie a chance.

Bleed Cubbie, batting Soto and DeRosa 7th and 8th so that Edmonds can bat 6th is indeed "crazy" and "unjust." Um, that's a bad thing.

I was having a good morning until I read this.

Perhaps this is sign that Pie is going to be dealt? SD is in town - could Greene be coming cubs way?

Take THAT, Chicago!

Signed,
Cubs Management

I don't want Jim Edmonds. I don't want Kahlil Greene. How is Kahlil that big of an improvement over Theriot? By NOT getting on base that often but perhaps hitting 20 or so home runs over the course of the year? Screw that.

Well my initial reaction was...NOO!!! But Edmonds is hitting about as well away from petco this year as he did in april the past 2 years. Depending on what kind of contract he is willing to sign, he should be pretty much no risk from that standpoint. However, his defense is a liability. Seems like at worst this would be a waste of time, but I'd like to think they could find some better moves to make(Lofton or someone else).

"Van Dyck says Edmonds would replace Felix Pie on the Cubs' roster."

...Ya know, since they seemingly want to replace Pie with any lefthander that has a pulse (or even partial-pulse in the case of Edmonds) ~ then why didn’t the team just trade Felix and get their top interest in the first place?

If the idea is to solely get Pie off the squad, then I guess it’s a fine move ~ doesnt improve the team really; but resolves the Pie situation, doesn’t cost any cash or prospects, and does add more “Vet-Leadership”. Well, atleast the “Vet” portion of it, and maybe the “leadership” would follow…

Did someone here actually say that Jim Edmonds defense is a liability? The guy with 8 Gold Gloves who should probably have 10? Edmonds has never been fast, so his lack of speed shouldn't be a surprise. He has great instincts and can still throw. He may not hit like he used to, but he can still defend.

I do, however, like the Lofton idea. That guy just has too much value left not to be playing.

Hmm...could Sweet Lou be running out of patience with his "pet project" Pie and be looking to force Hendry into packaging him along with the demoted Rich Hill for a Brian Roberts or perhaps a top of the rotation starter? Hmm...

My friends and I used to play this game where you would raise a thumbs up or thumbs down as the pitcher begins to throw (indicating whether you thought edmonds was going to swing). You see, Jim Edmonds guesses and decides whether or not he is going to swing before he even sees the ball. It is ridiculous, but if you watch him when he bats you can tell if he is going to swing or not 75% of the time. That is why he cant hit anything anymore, because he doesnt have the bat speed to foul off his wrong guesses like he used to.

In case you couldn't figure it out, Jim Edmonds sucks and if the Cubs sign him then I would seriously question the sanity of Hendry, Lou, et al.

If Edmonds can be signed for a fair price, can be productive and protect Ramirez wich would then allow Pinella to move Fukudome up in the line up, then, maybe then It would be worth it. However one of the biggest reason why Soto is been productive is because more often then not Fukudome is standing on base when his standing at the batters box. How much will Soto's production decline when he is hitting behind Edmonds?

#1 - Brian Roberts has a foot injury, something that doesn't bode well for a guy whose value over Derosa is his speed...

#2 - Hill will not be going in a trade for Roberts. There is no way in hell. It wasn't happening before and it isn't happening now. Even if Hill was demoted (had a monster game in AAA last time out...), Roberts has done nothing but decrease his own trade value. If Hill goes anywhere, it would have to be for an all star type SP, especially if you are including Pie in that mix.

Ya know, when talking about a guy that was demoted because of control problems, I think I refrain from calling 4 BB in 5.2 IP to AAAers “a monster game”…

I would like to see what Edmonds can do. If he stinks, nothing is lost, but he might play well in Wrigley Field with the small outfield dimensions. He also might see some hittable pitches batting between Ramirez and Derosa.

Let's all just close our eyes and maybe Edmonds will go away...

"Ya know, when talking about a guy that was demoted because of control problems, I think I refrain from calling 4 BB in 5.2 IP to AAAers “a monster game”…"

His line was 5.2IP, 3 hits, 4 walks, 8 strikeouts. Oh, by the way...0 runs. Maybe not monster, but certainly very very good. He is on the right track and I don't think he will be down there too much longer. If he can start one more time and have that same line with 2 walks, I'm pretty sure they are bringing him up.

Wait, I missed something. When did Steve Phillips take over as GM of the Cubs?

If you could get Edmonds for something like 2 million, I don't see why its that bad *if* they are sending down Felix Pie anyway, which has been talked about. If he doesn't do well...oh well, release him. I would rather they let Pie play as much or more than anyone else here. But, if they are going to send him down anyway, I don't see how the aquisition really hurts besides money, which they have plenty of anyway. If they aren't going to let Pie play, I'd prefer they did something like this and saved thier chips for the deadline and go out and get a #2 SP.

Edmonds has been struggling on defense this year especially. He certainly isn't what he used to be. All those gold gloves don't help him field now. Even if he is an avg defensive center fielder, he isn't as valuable coming off the bench to play defense late in the game as Pie is, and thats what matters.

2 million? try league minimum, or ideally a minor league deal and I'm on board with the flyer.

2 million might have been a little high...but I don't see him taking a minor league contract or settling for less than 1 mil...

If I'm not mistaken, since he was released (as opposed to waived) San Diego is still responsible for the salary that they owe him, we'd only be responsible for a pro-rated portion of the league minimum. (Oakland did the same thing with Big Hurt when Toronto released him, got him for chump change.)

Assuming that's the case, I'd absolutely like to see us take a shot at Edmonds. I hate him as much as every other Cubs fan does, but if only to have a big bat as a PH I think it'd be worth it.

And if he doesn't work out, Lou can just send him out there in blowouts so we can pelt him w/ beer from the bleachers.

“Edmonds has been struggling on defense this year especially. He certainly isn't what he used to be.”

…Some feel it might have more to do with SD though. I saw him in one of the LA series, and he looked like the same old Edmonds to me... Well, maybe not 100% the same, but not far from it…

“If I'm not mistaken, since he was released (as opposed to waived) San Diego is still responsible for the salary that they owe him, we'd only be responsible for a pro-rated portion of the league minimum.”

…correct, expect possibly the prorated part (might be full LgMin, either way its next to nothing though). You cant really go wrong if you have the open roster spot and want to take a look…

"His line was 5.2IP, 3 hits, 4 walks, 8 strikeouts. Oh, by the way...0 runs. Maybe not monster, but certainly very very good. He is on the right track and I don't think he will be down there too much longer."

...If you are in the minors because you need to cut down on your walks, and you walk 4 guys in less than 6 innings, how are you on the right track? That one just really puzzles me...

I heard out of St. Louis that this is a done deal...Edmonds to the Cubs. I can't verify it yet though...

Rich Hill pitched twice. The first time he have up 2 runs in 5 innings and walked 1, the second he gave up 0 runs in 5.2 innings and gave up 4 walks. His era is like 1.89 in his two starts. He still needs to get another one or two with no more than 2 walks, but he is on the right track.

I like Edmonds to the Cubs. Though I still think Randy Winn makes a lot of sense. I think Edmonds' problems were Petco Park. He will play well in Wrigley. Pie will never make the adjustments to be a quality MLB hitter. Trade him while his talents tease other MLB execs. To win this year, they still need to go out and get another frontline starter to put between "Z" and Lilly. But in the meantime, Edmonds for the league minimum makes absolute sense.

Word is in St. Louis that when he clears waivers, the Cubs will make it official. They are putting Pie back in AAA as well.

I actually don't mind it too much right now as Lou doesn't seem to be sticking with Pie and its not like Johnson is raking either...he is hitting like .255 or something. Plus, you know Edmonds will get hurt and Pie will be back up when that happens.

BY the way, my source is the Cards broadcasters, so take it for what its worth. Dan is good, but Al is an absolute idiot.

I've warmed up, slightly, at the thought of this move. I can understand the motivation of Cub Mgt. because it's a low-risk solution in CF. Here's my thought process for both the positives and negatives:

Pros:

1)If he stinks, you put him on waivers and cut bait.

2) We don't lose valuable trading chips for moves later in the season (I've said all along we need another SP).

3) Pie needs PT and isn't getting enough in the majors. He will be valuable when the roster expands.

4) Fukudome hitting in front of Lee and Ramirez instead of behind them.

Cons:

1) They are looking for something that isn't available yet--a middle-of-the-order left-handed bat . Edmonds is a square peg in a round hole. He's no longer a #5 hitter that can protect Ramirez.

2) He's just old. No longer a web gem waiting to happen.

3) Padres need a CF. Yet, they still released him. That should tell you something.

4) I was listening/reading about other GMs saying that he's done. He's regressed so much in the last year or two that he's no longer valuable or dependable.

Quick thought--hindsight is always 20/20, keep that in perspective:

What if we didn't trade Josh Hamilton to Cincinnati last year during the Rule 5 draft? Have any of you thought about that or looked at the potential lineup?

Soriano (absolutely hate batting him leadoff)
Fukudome
Lee
Hamilton
Ramirez
Soto
DeRosa
Theriot

The Cubs only drafted Hamilton in the rule 5 because they had ALREADY worked out a deal with the Reds to sell him! They never had any intention of keeping him...ever.

Adunc,

I was only providing a what if scenario. I know they had a pre-arranged deal with Cincy. But based on what they are looking for, he fit the profile perfectly if only they had the foresight to recognize it.

I know, but you have to understand that the Reds were about the only ones willing to take him and that was because one of their coaches knew him from when he was in high school. I agree though, he would be amazing for them right now. In fact, he would be amazing for absolutely any team in baseball right now.

Talk about taking a flyer. The odds are pretty long that Edmonds makes any kind of impact in the middle of the Cubs order. Does anyone see teams going after Lee and Ramirez because they are afraid to face Edmonds? I don’t. With that being said, it’s a low risk move. It isn’t like the Cubs are getting big production out of CF anyway, they aren’t giving anything up so they can cut him if it doesn’t work out. In the meantime Pie gets more playing time in AAA, the Cubs buy more time for Colvin (who I believe is the organization’s preferred CF of the future and a better fit for this years team). Colvin has had a nagging elbow injury and got off to a slow start but has started to hit lately. If Colvin doesn’t work out, it gives the Cubs time to make a deal down the road once teams like the Reds or Mariners fall out of contention and start selling parts. One possibility I see is Raul Ibanez, a player Piniella is very familiar with. The Mariners gave up some good young pitching to get Bedard and they can recoup a little by making a deal with the Cubs when and if they feel they are out of the race.

I don't understand this one at all. I am going to have to let Steve Phillips' phenomenal analysis fill me in on why Hendry did this.

No no no, no no, no no. If you want a lefty slugger, I'd even take Barry Bonds over him.

I have watched close to every Padre game this year, and Edmonds is DONE. Pie can hit .200 with no power and he would still provide more value than Edmonds. Why risk screwing up the chemistry of the team by adding him.

Sweet! In celebration of this move I will head to the .OB buletin board and pick up some Enron and some TWA stock, because those used to be top performers too!

It seems like a no-risk deal. If it works out its huge lift for these team if it doesnt we can just go back to what we have.

MY CONCERN IS STILL, HOW THESE MOVE WILL AFECT SOTO'S PRODUCTION WHO WILL NOW HIT BEHIND EDMONDS INSTEAD OF FUKUDOME.

I think Soto is going to hit no matter what. To me, I think you hit Soto 5th and Edmonds 6th, while still keeping Fukudome in the 2 hole.

1. Soriano
2. Fukudome
3. Lee
4. Ramirez
5. Soto
6. Edmonds
7. DeRosa
8. Theriot/Cedeno
9. Z - Hitting .296!

Perhaps Tim Buss and Mark ONeal have a training plan that helps players overcome post concussion syndrome, and no other team in baseball does.

I'm not warming to this idea at all. I believe Reed Johnson already does what we need him to do for that position. But if the Cubs feel they need a bench player in Edmonds down the stretch, I guess I'm ok with it, but I just see this as making a move for the sake of making a move.

But Edmonds has the ~FIRE~ and the ~PASSION~ and will spark this Cubs team!!!!!! Plus he wants to beat those darn Cardinals that dumped him off like a pregnant stray cat.

Remember, this is the same team that's in love with the feel-good story of Chad Fox despite the fact that he brings nothing to the team. Why am I cursed to love the Cubs?

This sickens me! Edmonds' defense has been on a gradual slide the past 4 years due to all of the injuries and the fact he's a dying dinosaur. His bat, well, he left that in a rehab center 3 years ago. The guy's hitting less than Pie is... won't play as well with the glove... and we'll end up paying him more than Pie to do it!

Has no one been paying attention to Pie's gradual improvement since Lou's crash course a couple of weeks back? In his past 15 games, Pie is 9/34 with 3 walks. That's a .265 BA with a .324 OBP. His slugging hasn't been great, considering he's had a single double as his lone XBH in that time. Still, it shows that Pie is beginning to improve, and his speed and defense makes him a MUCH better option on the bench than Edmonds. At this point in time, I would not start Edmonds over Johnson... though I would begin considering starting Pie over Johnson is Pie continues to push his BA up over the next couple of weeks.

As far as a lineup goes, it should be this:

SS Theriot
RF Fukudome
1B Lee
3B ARam
C Soto
LF Soriano
2B DeRosa
CF Pie

or

SS Theriot
CF Johnson
RF Fukudome
1B Lee
3B ARam
C Soto
LF Soriano
2B DeRosa

"I'm not warming to this idea at all."

...If the move is to just remove Pie from the big squad so he can get normal, consistent playing/learning time in at a place where he wont hurt the club, then how can you be against it?

Its too bad because I think they should have just gone with Pie fulltime from the start if he is the CF of the future. Signing Reed and playing him more-often at the beginning more than likely did little more than set Pie back in his progress. But its what the team has chosen, and at this point its better for Pie in AAA than sitting on the bench or trying to force things when in the lineup…

“Rich Hill pitched twice. The first time he have up 2 runs in 5 innings and walked 1,”
…uhh, you left off the 7 hits on that one… Granted it was nice he threw it over the plate, too bad it didn’t fool anyone though…

“His era is like 1.89 in his two starts”
…and his WHIP is 1.41!

...10 H and 5 BB in 10.2 innings to AAAers? Try and spin it all you like, but he isnt doing what he was sent down to do. And when the report stating that Lou doesn’t like him is considered, you are looking at a guy not showing real progress in the face of a guy who might not want him around anyway.

Its pissing me off because he’s hurting my fantasy squad, but that sure looks like a trend that wont be changing anytime soon… Progress will be him allowing fewer runners than the amount of innings he pitches; get excited after he does that…

All this team needs is a #2 starter, and I will take my chances with this team. We don't need any more Craig Monroe/Steve Trachsel leaky band-aid moves. Hendry, get me AJ Burnett.

If you can't get me AJ Burnett, at least unload Marquis and grab Greg Maddux.

I agree. we have a good team that will punch his tkts for oct. But if want to win it all we do need another top of the rotation starter.

Dark,
Hill is one of many killing my team too. :)

My guess is he is up pretty quick regardless of his WHIP in the minors. He just needed innings. I am a fan of Pinella's but not real thrilled with how he handled Hill this year. He skipped one of his starts early, then skipped him again two weeks later. To me it is not surprising he can't find his control.

The chances of Hill coming back up increase every time Marquis or Lieber make a start.

I like Maddux as much as the next guy...but he isn't someone you would want to waist Marquis' contract on. I don't want to eat that much money to gain like .2 in ERA.

"And when the report stating that Lou doesn’t like him is considered"

What report is that?? I read one where Lou said that he is paying very close attention to his progress, because they really could use him back up here...but I haven't seen a report that says "Lou doesn't like Rich Hill". Please, enlighten me as to where that one is...

Its also very funny to see you use WHIP, when in Dempster's case, you won't even call him "reliable" even though his WHIP is better than Zambrano's, because of BABIP. But now WHIP is a good stat to look at, just not in the case of Dempster. Do you not see how obvious it is that you just skew any stat you can to try and make your points? Its pretty pathetic. Like I said, Dempster is reliable, at least, and Hill needs one to two more starts in AAA with 2 or less walks.

I'm on the fence about the Lou/Hill situation. On the one hand, sending him down to AAA hours after his start is kinda cold. On the other hand, everything talks about the skipped start but neglects to add that the start was against Milwaukee, which crushes lefties. I think Lou was actually trying to protect him there. We shall see...

“The chances of Hill coming back up increase every time Marquis or Lieber make a start.”

…I hope youre right, but… Well, I will remind you of your previous sentence ~ “I am a fan of Pinella's but not real thrilled with how he handled Hill this year.”

“What report is that??”
…Its in one of the Rich Hill posts of the last week…

“Its also very funny to see you use WHIP, when in Dempster's case, you won't even call him "reliable" even though his WHIP is better than Zambrano's, because of BABIP.”

OK, WTF are you talking about? You mean in the pitiful argument where you said you know he wont keep up this production and know he has been lucky but feel he is reliable?

And Rich Hill was sent down to work on his control and keep runners off the basepaths ~ where all he is doing is allowing runners on the basepaths! How is that a good thing? He wasn’t sent down to post a good ERA, so why would you post that as if its special or makes a point? And he wasn’t sent down to strike out AAAers or 4A Scrubs ~ he was sent down to limit runners and find some control! Well, he’s walked 4 in 5.2 and allowed 7 hits with a walk in the game where he focused on keeping the ball over the plate ~ and youre excited giving all the “monster game” crap? And because you made a questionable statement there you instead try to bring up your “you should call Dempster Reliable” argument? Again, a guy you don’t think will continue this, admit has been lucky and didn’t even want in the rotation to begin with ~ but now I must consider him reliable? I know you feel the need to have every third post everytime the Cubs are mentioned in a thread, but come on… Really, whatever man... If it'll stop the homerism ~
Dempster is “reliable” and Hill had a “monster game”… Is the world now on its proper axas? ***rolls eyes***

That is a good point JR, though Hill was somewhat effecitve against the Brewers last year. 2-1, 4.94 ERA, 5/25 W/S rate - so not too sure why you need to protect him. He seems like kind of a head case - i just worry a demotion drains his confidence. As you said, we shall see....

Wow. This should sell tickets ... when Edmonds buries himself head first into the brick wall.

Dempster HAS BEEN more than reliable, and I said I doubt he keeps up pitching at the rate he HAS BEEN. I also said that even if he doesn't, I think pretty much everyone will still agree that he is a "reliable" starter. But for you to say RIGHT NOW that he isn't "reliable" shows your iq level of less than my shoe size, and thats really the bottom line here.

Hill pitching 5.2 innings with 4 walks, 8 strike outs, and 0 runs with 3 hits is a very good game. Thats what I said before and thats what I'll say again. And like I've said 3 times now, he needs to pitch another one or two with 2 walks or less and he will/should be called up.

Oh, by the way, SHOW ME where Lou doesn't like Hill...you haven't done that yet.

I'm not sure if I should put my 2 cents in this Hill discussion but I think what Lou doesn't like is when Hill pitches passively. In fact, Lou doesn't like it when anyone plays passively. I don't think it's anything personal toward Rich Hill. What I think Lou is trying to do is get Hill to attack hitters again as he did last year. When he loses confidence, he doesn't attack the strike zone and he starts walking people. And Lou, like most other people, knows that Hill has got quality major league stuff-- and there's no reason he should be nibbling around the plate. It seems sometimes the only person who doesn't always realize Hill has good stuff is Hill himself. So I think the two things go hand in hand here. If Hill is posting great numbers like his ERA or whatever, the hope is that he should start to realize again that he's a tough guy to hit. Then once he begins to realize that he's a tough guy to hit, maybe he'll stop nibbling around the plate and start going after hitters again. I think they're trying to make the snowball go in reverse here. Whichever comes first, the ERA or the lower walk total is almost irrelevant as far as I'm concerned because once he gets one of them going, the other should follow close behind. If a low ERA gives Hill the confidence to pitch aggressively, the walk totals will fall. If Hill trusts his stuff and starts throwing strikes and not walking people, he'll start dominating games and his ERA will go down because he's tough to score on when he's not doing teams a favor by giving them free passes. I don't care which way he screws his head back on, as long as he does it quickly. The Cubs are going to need him.

In re Evidence of Grudge: I thought that someone said that someone on Rotosomething said that Lou had a grudge. I went there but didn't see anything. Take that for what it's worth.

I can see some plus on this signing. I mean people are going to say ''Cubs aren't giving Pie a shot.'' Ummmmmmmm yeah they have last year he proved he can't hit MLb pitching this year so far he can do diddly squat against pitching. Pie needs to be sent back down to get his for a break from the MLB. Bringing Edmonds would be good because
* Veteran in the clubhouse
* Has produced well at Wrigley
* Nice guy not a clubhouse cancer
* This could be a start of something new and what happens if he turns it around? You get him doing well and probably at a cheap price. Prolly 2.5-4 mill

Are you sure he's a nice guy Cubbies2008? I read in the Daily Herald the other day that Edmonds has been known to be a difficult guy in the clubhouse.

“I'm not sure if I should put my 2 cents in this Hill discussion but I think what Lou doesn't like is when Hill pitches passively.”

…Very possible. He had struggled with it in each game leading up to the push-back and eventual demotion game. I can see it as one of those “are you even listening to me” type things, where Lou tried to get it into his head for like 3 weeks before finally bubbling over… Not 100% sure I agree with the “ERA will bring confidence” thing though; the runners he had allowed weren’t actually crossing the plate, keeping his ERA under 4 nearly the entire time he was struggling. What was he like in the preseason?

“Dempster HAS BEEN more than reliable, and I said I doubt he keeps up pitching at the rate he HAS BEEN”

…and as I told you when you insisted on holding that conversation last time ~ whoppty F*ing do. I know you feel that way, you have only said it over and over and over and over and over and over and over again… Still, it doesn’t mean I have to feel that way. And when someone tells me “you HAVE to call him reliable” while at the same time saying he wont keep up his pace and agreeing he has gotten lucky, all of it only a month after bitching about him being in the rotation ~ well, its looking like a crash course in contradiction. You though? Nah, only thing you do is run around in your little circles continuing to say “YOU HAVE TO” again and again and again for unknown reason…

And regarding Hill ~ you mean if he has two games unlike the two he has had so far he will be back in the majors soon? Good to hear, thanks for the amazing insight on that one...

Hmm...a lefty CF'er to bat in the middle of the lineup...

Y'know what guys?? Jacque Jones is available!

:)

I MF'n loathe Edmonds. Please don't sign that guy.

Dont know if someone above mentioned this but what about Kenny Lofton? LH, plays center, I mean why Edmonds?

Oh, and some food for thought on Hill (found it on the Edmonds article on Cubs.com)

"In his last outing with Iowa, he threw 55 fastballs, and 28 were strikes, 27 were balls. "

Ugh.

I agree. If you need to send Pie back down and sign a lefty CF'er then why Edmonds over Lofton?

Maybe it would be less of a headache to jettison Edmonds as opposed to Lofton, if Pie somehow magically "fixes" his swing to Lou's liking, they bring him back, and he starts hitting.

Or maybe they're afraid of the Kenny Lofton Curse...

"And regarding Hill ~ you mean if he has two games unlike the two he has had so far he will be back in the majors soon? Good to hear, thanks for the amazing insight on that one..."

He walked one his first game...so no, it would be two games just like that!

Oh, Dark...nice job providing ANY proof that Lou doesn't like Hill. Good work on spewing things out and acting like they are fact when they obviously aren't. Nothing new for you though, is it?

I'm pretty sure that Edmonds is an arrogant guy, from living in St. Louis and talking to some people that have gone out with him etc...but I don't think he has ever been a problem in the clubhouse, at least to my knowledge.

“I agree. If you need to send Pie back down and sign a lefty CF'er then why Edmonds over Lofton?”

1) Cash. Lofton as been said to want a lot more than LgMin…
2) Plating-time / Ability. Lofton during the offseason was saying he would only sign if it was for the fulltime CF job. Well, he inst that good of a CFer anymore and full-time is a stretch since he cant hit lefties at all any longer…
3) Are we sure that Lofton really even wants to play anymore? When your demands are a semi-large contract and a full-time position it really gets to the point where maybe he didn’t really want to play but could be convinced to if it was something other than a minor bit-role…

Edmonds is basically free, wants to play and worst case you dump him without penalty and can still try to sign Lofton afterward…

“He walked one his first game...so no, it would be two games just like that!”
…Oh, so if he walks 1 and allows 7 hits over 5 innings in his next start he will be called up after it? Got it, thanks for clearing that one up…

“Nothing new for you though, is it?”
…man, youre truly pitiful…

The numbers say Lofton is still an above-average defensive CF. Sometimes I think people get jaded after years of watching wall climbers on Sportcenter. He can still run, throw and catch the ball cleanly.

That said, he would be MUCH more expensive than Edmonds and has definately seen a decline vs. lefties. Of course, so has Edmonds, though neither one would be facing a lefty all, or even most of the time.

For those worried about Soto, don't. Soto is A-Ram's protection at this point, so it ends up being a pick your poison type thing. Jeff Kent won an MVP being Barry Bonds' protection without much of his own.

Lou doesn't like anybody. He's not into the whole "feelings" thing.

Thanks for that proof again dark. Captivating!

"Thanks for that proof again dark. Captivating!"

Really, why don’t you instead answer this ~ why should I again entertain your obsessions? I mean, if I had Lou show up at your door with a written statement you will probably start complaining about a typo or claim it was a look-a-like or who knows what in your attempt to find your next runaround argument. You get your panties in a twist and will argue against the sky being blue just to continue your obsessive arguing. You’ve proved that many a times, and I've told you multiple times that I dont care what ya think so there is no point in entertaining that type of crap once again.

So really; sorry your Hill comment didnt make a whole lot of sense, and sorry that meant you again had to bring up the pitiful "you MUST say Dempster is reliable" because you felt you somehow had a point. But I’m not going to follow you into your next runaround as you continue your eternal search for that point…

Hahahaha....

I ask you to prove what you say, and YOU CAN'T!!! Hahahaha!!! You can't do it and your sad, pathetic rebuttals are really something a little kid says when he wants to take his ball and go home. Please, go home dark, you embarrass yourself.

Tim,

Last year you seemed pretty much against washed up veterans taking AB's away from prospects that will probably do better than the vet & need the AB's to develop. Why shouldn't us Cub fans get worked up about that?

pinetar,
I think he says this because Pie wasn't getting enough at bats anyway, so you might as well send him back down to get everyday playing time. If he wasn't going to get it anyway, it seems like a logical move. Plus, if Edmonds continues his performance thus far, you can just release him and bring Pie back up whenever you want to.

This move really, really surprises me. It is going to be very different seeing Jimmy-E in a Cubs uniform. I know that Pie has struggled so far this year, but he actually has a future in baseball right now, Jimmy doesn't. In my opinion, the Cubs should keep playing Pie and hope that he gets so hot, so that they can either keep him or that will get his trade value up to be traded. To me, this move makes no sense at all. Right now, the Cards look so smart for "dumping" Edmonds on the Cards and getting rid of his salary at the same time. Im so glad the Cards were smart and didn't even consider bring Jim back to STL. I wish Jimmy all the best, especially all that he did during his good years here in STL, but I think this has "DISASTER" wrote all over it!!!!

I meant to say that the Cards look smart for "dumping" Jimmy on the Padres. Sorry about that.

The Cards look smart? Edmonds asked to be traded...and its not like they got anything back in return anyway. They are also still paying some of his salary...so while it was a good move, I'm not so sure it was that good considering they signed him to the horrible contract in the first place.

OK PEOPLE...QUIT THE SPECULATION AS TO WHAT SALARY WE WILL BE PAYING EDMONDS. Any team that picks him up will be paying him the pro-rated league minimum. So why not give him a shot? He was playing better the last two weeks before he was DFA. Theres virtually NO risk. Send Pie down and let him get some more at bats...

Whether or not Edmonds asked to be traded or not is not the issue. I agree, the contract was a bit steep, but to still not have to pay the last $6-7 million of it was a great move by the Cards. They didn't get much in return, but they at least did get SOMETHING. What has Edmonds done for the Padres this year, that's right nothing. Brian Friese could still work out for the Cards and even if he doesn't, I still like the move of getting rid of Jimmy the way that they did!!

Bat JimmyE 8th and if he sucks...then cut him. you werent getting that much production when Pie was hitting there. ok, some with Johnson there...

I have no arguement for the Defense arguement...Pie is clearly better.

You have the best offense in baseball, i would hate to start dropping Riot to 8th, Fuku to 2nd etc etc, just for the JimmyE experiment.

Edmonds asking to be traded DOES have a lot to do with it. if he hadn't, they probably wouldn't have traded him at all! The contract was bad from the beginning. yes, they got out of paying some of it...so I guess cutting their losses makes them look good...but the original contact makes them look bad. Without him wanting out...they don't look "smart" to you or anybody else here...

If Hendry had signed that contract or got rid of him...people would be all over him. Because its the Cardinals, they are all the sudden "smart"? No, they cut thier losses on a horriffic contract and are still paying a couple million of it. They are smart for cutting their losses, but they are losses none the less. San Diego looks a lot dumber than the Cards look smart.

Can someone who is opposed to this signing please explain why you feel that why.....logically. The way I see it there is ZERO DOWNSIDE RISK in signing him. Pie goes back down t the minors and gets to play everyday which he is not doing now anyways.....good for Pie. The Cubs spend $250k on Edmonds and can cut ties with him after a few weeks or a month if they want.....good for the Cubs.

If Edmonds doesn't work out then we call back up Pie and drop Edmonds, nothing lost except pocket change for the Trib. If he works out, then our line-up becomes more balanced and our team only gets better.

If your only beef is that it is Jim Edmonds, get over it! The Bulls signed Dennis Rodman and he helped them win a few championships. No one complained about it back then.

I like this Jim Hendry signing for once!

One knock on the signing is the outfield defense...but thats about the biggest downside that I can see in all of this.

"One knock on the signing is the outfield defense...but thats about the biggest downside that I can see in all of this."

Maybe. But there is only one way to find out. Let's see what happens when he plays. If his defense is subpar and we feel we are better off with Felix "Corey Patterson's Clone" Pie in center then so be it.

I'd like to see it just to see how the fans react when he plays his first game at Wrigley......that will be well worth the signing alone!

Sqweeek,
I agree with you, but you have to understand that there is no question about defense, Pie is one of the best in baseball and we are hoping that Edmonds can be average. Other than that, I think this will be good for Pie, because he needs the at bats.

Even though Edmonds asked to be, weeks before he was traded I heard rumblings about the Cards looking to trade him anyway before SD got invovled. I do agree that the price was steep on that contract, but Edmonds did put several good years for the Cards before the injuries and what not started to come up. At one point, Edmonds was arguably the best offensive and defensive center-fielder in the game. At the time, the only centerfielder maybe better both ways was Andruw Jones. Again the contract was steep, but with Edmonds playing at that leven then, you have to "step up" and pay him. With Edmonds playing like that, if the Cards had let him walk, everyone would have been all over them for letting another team sign him. When the player stops playing well, then the team looks bad but to me the contract was good for awhile. They had to eat some of it, but at least they didn't have to eat all of it.

Pie is one of the best in baseball? Give me a break!! Whatever you are smoking, please send some my way!!!

Edmonds had a no trade clause, so they weren't trading him without him asking to be. Not to mention he said it had to be a southern california team. So whether you heard rumblings or not, the Padres were about the only fit, and Edmonds wouldn't have been traded if he didn't want to be.

The contract was signed after 06, not 04. He didn't deserve the money after 06, whether he has put up numbers in the past or not. Almost 10 mil a year for two years? No. They didn't have to do that, but they did. It was a bad move, and there really isn't any reason to argue that...its fact. They now have cut their losses...which was good...but it only makes the signing in the first place less of a mistake, but it was bad and thats just the fact.

Pie IS one of the best defensive center fielders in baseball. Are you joking me when you argue that? How about him robbing Griffey of a home run this year? How about the fact that he led ALL OF BASEBALL in RZR with over 50 balls hit to them last year??? Don't argue with me on this...you will flat out lose. he is a defensive stud.

So robbing one homerun makes him a great centerfielder? This is what I love, the guy hasn't proven himself yet and you are ready to annoint the next big thing out in center. Im not saying is a bad centerfielder, but one of the best? Come on. Now, I will say that he could be in a couple of years from now, but give him more time before you are going to make that argument.

I do agree the contract was steep, but at the same time back then Edmonds was beginning to diminish but he still played fairly well to that point. Who else were you going to get in center that was worth anything for $10 mil? No one worth while was available back then at all. All the centerfielders worth talking to were locked up. For all that he did, I believe that contract was pretty much a reward for what he had done previously as well. Before this year, they realized that probably wasn't the best decision they made and decided to do something about it before they had to pay all the money.

No, I don't need to. Its fact. Again, he led ALL OF BASEBALL in RZR for centerfielders last year with over 50 chances. Those are the facts, and he has proven himself as an UZR and RZR stud throughout his minor league career. He has a great arm and gets to every ball he should, and many that most wouldn't. You obviously haven't watched/studied him and his numbers/metrics to know any different. But speaking from someone who has done both...sorry, its just the fact. he is one of the best defensive center fielders in the game. Period. One great catch doesn't make my point, just helps it. So does his entire track record and every defensive metric around.

"Before this year, they realized that probably wasn't the best decision they made and decided to do something about it before they had to pay all the money."

No. Edmonds decided for them. He ASKED to be traded, not the other way around. And rewarding a declining player for past performance will drive a franchise to the ground. They were NOT smart...just less dumb than San Diego.

Oh...by the way...how about Rick Ankiel?? He is doing it now...he could have done it last year for much, much less than 10 mil.

Just a personal opinion here - I have a problem calling any player the "best" at a particular skillset until he has done it for a few years in a row. I understand the numbers and all that but its just the way I feel. Maybe I am splitting hairs between "was best last year" and IS "one of the best". I think Pie is excellent defensivly but to call him one of the best in baseball at this point in his career is pushing it - sorry Adunc ( one of the rare times I disagree with ya)

Well, I guess we'll see how great he is defensively and everything once your great Cubs prospect gets send back down to AAA when the Edmonds signing becomes official. You can have Pie if you want him. Personally, I think you are just a Cubs sympathizer. I already agree that Pie is a good centerfielder but he is not worth being called one of the best just yet. Don't worry, he'll be making the catches out there in center in AAA Iowa probably by tomorrow anyway. I mean if he's so great, then why are the Cubs going to probably send him down and sign Edmonds? Just b/c Pie is struggling at the plate? If he is really that good defensively, don't you keep him up in the BIGS for his defense and just whatever else you get at the plate be a bonus. That should show you right there that your argument has no clout.

Has he done anything in the last two years to say that he isn't "one of the best"? I'm not saying he IS the best...just one of the best. Thats fine if you want to say you want to see him longer...I can't argue with that. I'm saying that every metric and just watching the guy get jumps, you can see that he is a great defender. I will go with what the defensive metrics tell me unless there is something that proves otherwise...and so far, in the last two years, all he has done is back that thoery up.

That's my argument exactly touchmymoney. I appreciate the backup. No one can argue that Edmonds wasn't one of the best centerfielder of all time, but he had to prove it for several years and make some pretty fantastic plays to get that kind of recognition. Pie could get there, but no way is he there yet.

"I mean if he's so great, then why are the Cubs going to probably send him down and sign Edmonds? Just b/c Pie is struggling at the plate? "

YES! Read the article in pro sports daily about what Lou had to say about it. He talks about it being tough because he is SO good with the glove...but he has got to work on his hitting. He had a .900 OPS in the minors...he just has to work on his knowledge of the strike zone and shorten his swing. But for you to say my argument has no merit because they wouldn't send him down just because he is not hitting....well...you are just plain wrong, there is no way around it. that is EXACTLY why they are sending him down.

“Can someone who is opposed to this signing please explain why you feel that why.....logically. The way I see it there is ZERO DOWNSIDE RISK in signing him.”

…exactly. It doesn’t really hurt the team at all today since Pie isnt hitting anyway, and generally isnt on the field because of that. That means that any defensive difference is completely pointless ~ how would Pie’s D difference help when he is basically doing nothing but sit on the bench? And the move helps tomorrow because maybe now Pie can go back down and continue to work on his issues.

The only real downside I see to it comes in the fact that it probably destroys Pies value completely ~ but if the team is set on sticking with him longterm, then that isnt an issue anyway. Now, if the team does plan on trading him sometime before too long, this was an amazing stupid move, but that’s a complete unknown so there is no need to complain about it…

“Hahahaha.... I ask you to prove what you say, and YOU CAN'T!!! Hahahaha!!!”

…yep, youre just truly pathetic man…

He hasn't done anything to disprove but you are still annointing him too fast saying he is one of the best. If he can continue to play at that defensive level for a couple more years, then I will agree with you. Ill be honest, I think Pie has a great chance to be one of the best defensively, just not yet. I agree though, he does have some mad hops for sure.

Well to me, that is just stupid if that is the reason.

Wow...more compelling proof Dark. Just admit when you are wrong and get on with it...Lou doesn't have some personal grudge against Hill. He just wants him and every other pitcher he has ever managed to throw strikes. Its not rocket science here...

I agree with you darkstar1661. I would give Pie a few more weeks to see if he can come around at the plate. He's had a rough time but the kid has some very good upside at the plate as well. Sometimes, all these top prospects need is time. Id give him some more before sending him down, especially if they are going to just trade him in the end anyway.

"Well to me, that is just stupid if that is the reason."

None the less, that is the reason. They want more than a defensive stud. They can't have a guy hitting .220\.290 or whatever in their lineup. He needs a better knowledge of the strikezone and he is working on shortening his swing. He can't do that very well only playing once every three games.

Thats their thoery...and I would rather them send him down if they aren't going to play him...or just freakin play the guy, at least against all the right handers...but thats beside the point. Trust me on this...he is that good defensively, and his hitting is the only reason they are sending him down. I won't argue that he isn't the best because you want to see more...thats totally your call. As for me, I trust the metrics until I see otherwise, but he has backed them up so far.

One of the best most exciting players in baseball signs a 6 year deal that is ridiculously team friendly, 13 comments.

The Cubs are about to sign a worthless piece of crap 5th outfielder, 110 comments.

Awesome.

Ha...thats hilarious. Put it this way...we are making up for ESPN being all about the Yankees and RedSox all damn day long...

There's no doubt Pie has excellent defensive skills, his speed alone gets him to a lot of balls. His speed also makes up for the terrible routes he takes getting there. On enough occasions I've seen him misplay his initial steps and routes and then not make a catch. This is, however, masked by his making some incredibles running grabs in the gap and obviously the Griffey catch. But I wouldn't call him one of the best. Maybe one of the best in Chicago, depending on whether or not Brian Anderson is on the big league team...

And for the record I am a diehard Cubs fan.

Disagree if you must...but I'll put money on those defensive metrics coming out again next year with him near the top of the list in RZR and UZR. Anyone want to take that bet? If he was really missing balls he should have got to...it would greatly affect those ratings.

Here is that article I was talking about...on cubs.com. A couple of tidbits...

If the Cubs do add Edmonds, Pie would likely return to Triple-A Iowa. He was batting .222 so far, which included a .286 (10-for-35) clip in his last 15 games after opening the season .143 (4-for-28) in his first 14 games. He's become a special project of Piniella's, but it may be in his best interest to go to the Minors to work on shortening his swing with Minor League hitting instructor Dave Keller.

Piniella said Pie has improved from last season, when he batted .215 in 87 games with the big league team.

"He hasn't been playing every day, which is not the easiest for a young player," Piniella said. "At the same time, he does a heck of a job in the outfield."

“There's no doubt Pie has excellent defensive skills, his speed alone gets him to a lot of balls. His speed also makes up for the terrible routes he takes getting there.”

And his defense means a whole lot of nothing sitting on the bench. Pie has played 12 innings over the last 5 games, since he doesn’t touch the ball every inning you are talking about a minimal difference even if comparing someone with the skills of Mays to a Dunn clone in CF.

Great defender or not, that’s besides the point because it doesn’t mean much to the team right now; or even anytime in the future if he doesn’t start hitting. He wasn’t given a real shot which I know was a huge mistake, but he also didn’t do anything to help his cause by posting a pitiful line yet again. Its kind of funny though, there were some this past offseason proclaiming that he would be a huge asset to the club even if he was hitting something like .250 because of this amazing Defense he will bring ~ a little over a month later, he hits right around that and find himself headed to AAA…

“One of the best most exciting players in baseball signs a 6 year deal that is ridiculously team friendly, 13 comments.
The Cubs are about to sign a worthless piece of crap 5th outfielder, 110 comments.
Awesome.”

…Yeah, but you’ll notice that 50% of them are Adun because he cant allow anyone’s opinion to be posted without chiming in with the 2 cents he borrowed from todays pre-game show…

Well there is that.

Clay Buchholz has been put on the DL with a fingernail issue, speculation is that Bartolo Colon could get the start on Tuesday.

Pie is one of the best defensive players in Baseball. He has been doing what he does for years. Playing defense in the minors is the same as in the majors. He has made play after play after play and has been gunning down runners since he started in the minors and since he has been called up he has been doing it in Chicago. Defense is not much different in the minors then the majors. If you have seen him throw the ball from centerfield to home, then you have seen his cannon. Even better then Fukudome or Soriano.

A couple thoughts.... Horrible move by Hendry, no matter how mch Pie is struggling, he is better both offensively and defensively that Jimmy Edmonds is now...

And to Aduncaroo, the Cards only picked up 2 mill on Edmonds, and they didn't get nothing in return...
David Freese is handling AAA very well and has become the future 3b for us.

Pie would be valuable if he was starting every game or nearly every game and hitting .250. But as it stands, he is playing one out of every 4 and hitting .220. Thats not working for anybody...and its obvious. He is only of great value hitting .250 if his defense is being utilized...which it is not right now. Thats not rocket science either...

Pre game show? What are you even talking about? Its called reading Dark. Ever done it? Having an IQ more than 2 helps though...

I don't need to apologize for having good baseball discussions to you or anyone else. Shut up and go away...please. You sit there and bi*ch about number of posts and this site being too centered around the Cubs, yet you contribute to EVERY cubs thread?? come on, you embarrass yourself yet again.

Freese is a 25 year old hitting .274/.328/.453/.781.

I'm not saying he can't make the bigs...or even be good. But its not like those are anywhere close to superstar numbers in the minors for a 3rd basemen. Hell, Felix Pie hit much, much better than that at a younger age. Be careful before you are going to give that guy a "3rd Basemen of the Future" tag.

Time will tell if you got anything in that trade.

Aduncaroo:

I notice that you just love to talk. I also notice that you are citing a Carrie Muskat as your independent source. The writers at MLB.com are little more than parrots for MLB and the organization.

Also notice that doing a "heck of a job" could mean any number of things. When I hear someone talk about another player doing a "heck of a job" I am reminded of the blistering hustle offered by Neifi Perez. (Heck of glove, right?)

I understand that Pie is good and I understand your feeling that Edmonds is not even close to Pie. I don't know if I agree that there is a huge gap between them defensively, but don't go around criticizing people's statments and then citing Carrie Muskat and then declaring yourself the winner (of what i don't know).

Also, I am going to preempt you here. I am sure that she is a legitimate journalist, and her opinion matters. But don't look at her columns like some holy panacea that makes you right. I think it is obvious that she has little in the way of indpendence in what she writes.

Two reasons. One, I have yet to see a critical article written by her - which makes sense considering she works primarly (solely?) for the Cubs website. That would be like slapping your boss in the face. Second, and truly to the point of your argument, she wrote this article on the Edmonds Pie situation last night. We have all heard about this for several days and yet she didnt write about it until 735 last night? Seems like she was seeking permission and making sure that she wouldn't embarass anybody on the club. That lack of independence really impeaches her opinion and demonstrates why she cannot be critical of Pie. So of course he is a "heck of a player."

I can't stand Carrie Muskat. I was quoting the article to give an example of what Lou said! Are you serious???

I don't know what people are supposed to think when you quote most of the article for the purposes of trying to rub Dark's nose in it.

You could have said Lou is quoted as saying "Heck of a job" or whatever.

Anyway, tell Carrie I say Hi!

Did you even read what I quoted??? The only part I was trying to show was where Pie was being sent down because of his hitting, and where it QUOTES Lou as saying he has done a heck of a job in the outfield. Why do you care about any of the rest of it? She sucks, and I know what her job is, and how she won't say a bad word about the Cubs. But none of that has anything to do with her quoting Lou. I don't understand the point you are trying to make here...

skkrman7482,

You obviously can't follow more than one conversation going on at once. The conversation I was having with Dark has nothing to do with the one I was having with JP. I mentioned that there was an article where Lou says he has done a great job in CF, but needs to work on his hitting. Then, I quoted it so he didn't just think I was making it up. Is it that difficult to follow? What the hell does Carrie Muskat have to do with any of it? Lou said it, thats all I cared about in the first place.

My point is that you seem to be awfully critical of people - im thinking Dark here - and then you go and make and entire post that is fluff. "Just admit you are wrong" is what you hurl at dark and then you drop a Muskat. I mean you seem awfulyl serious about all this, which is great - love the passion - but the Muskat article (which felt the need to especially point out) just makes me think maybe you should quit being so critical of Dark and his opinion. I mean Muskat isnt the way to prove him wrong.

Its just odd.

I'm glad you are anti-Muskat.

Also, what the hell is with this "obviously" garbage.

I mean you sound like a petulent little 8 year old and I'm sure you a lot older and more successful than me. But still, don't talk down to people.

I have noticed that you tend to turn conversations into arguments, into mindless dribble - much like our little exchange has become.

BTW that was critical of people in general - not just Dark.

Ok...you really should figure out what is going on before you make comments like you did at me.

"Just admit you are wrong" is what you hurl at dark and then you drop a Muskat"

My conversation with Dark goes back to a whole different thread, and our differences go back about a year and a half. You think I'm the only one critical??? Look at his comments.

Darkstar thinks that Lou has a grudge against Rich Hill, and that he doesn't like him personally. I asked him to prove it...which instead of doing so (by quoting an article or something) he just says a bunch of negitive things.

Now, me QUOTING the article that QUOTED Lou was to JP, showing him where I got the idea that the Cubs were sending down Pie stricktly because he couldn't hit.

Does that clear it up??? Do you see now that they have nothing to do with one another, and that I could care less what Carrie Freaking Muskat has to say???

Anger and Passion... these will lead you to the Dark Side.

So will triple question marks

Ha...

Thats good and all...but you really shouldn't come on here and make accusations without understanding. That too, will lead to the dark side my friend.

I've always been on Dark's side. right??????????????

Apparently so.

Heres my last post on the whole Pie defensive argument. I agree with Aduncaroo to the degree that Pie is good and even as far as saying that he will be o