The Griffey Situation

Why is Griffey a fit for the Cubs? Because he is LH? Enough switching outfielders around. Sori stays in LF Fukudome in RF - end of story. Wait until a P becomes available and then make a move. If they are so intent on bringing in a LH power bat then sell the farm and make a huge splash - ( ok I know this won't happen but I do so like to annoy those that hate fantasy trades ) Get Sizemore. Let Cleveland pick 5 from :
Marmol
Vitters
Hart
Veal
Pie
Murton
Gallegher
Smardijaaz - whatever the kid from notre dame is.
Cleveland could replace CC, get a closer, get a 3B all in 1 shot. Cubs have an OF of Sori/Sizemore/Fukudome for years. Rip away - but I don't want to hear crap from overvalueing cubs prospects I am including 5 of them for gods sake lol.

Scribble - I know it is abit much but normally when I make what I think are normal proposals I get hammered for overvalueing cubs players. Ok - I may have gone a little overboard on this to avoid that stigma. I think Vitters or Marmol would have to be in a trade for a stud like Sizemore - Vitters/Marmol/Veal maybe? Vitters MAY turn out to be a stud but he is blocked for at least 4 yrs with ARAM at 3rd. Sizemore IS a stud.. a lefthanded one at that - who leads off too. I would hate to lose Marmol but again - have to give to get. I would rather go after a SP and just work with what we have now. Pitching wins playoffs Zambrano/Burnett/Lily sounds tons better than Zambrano/lily/Dempster.
Sorry if I twitched you up too bad scrib - my bad lol

I never actually said that the Indians would move Sizemore, I'm just fantasizing. He's their best position player arguably and their bset building block for the future.

And I think the Reds would be willing to take slightly less than 2 A prospects for Griffey. Maybe an A and a B?

Just a thought. I would love to see Griffey in the Tigers lineup. They certainly could use another left-handed bat in their and they should be a contender in the next month or so the way the central in going these days.

Granderson
Polanco
Guillen
Ordonez
Cabrera
Griffey
Renteria
Sheffield
Pudge

I'm assuming thats a compliment bjsguess - thanks. Crawford would be a nice fit too but again - I would rather go for SP, but its always nice to dream. Of course Cleveland would not want to part with Sizemore. You cannot tell me that Shapiro wouldn't contemplate that trade - if only for a split second - might even think about it veal wasn't in it.
Since I am on a roll with this - anyone want to hear about my "Cedeno and Howry for Papelbon" trade ;o)

Whoops, and I mean putting Griff in right, obviously, not left. I'm firing my proofreader.

In my opinion, Carl Crawford isnt really close to Sizemore's level. For starters, Sizemore gets on base at around 50-60 points highers then Crawford. Since they both leadoff (although it is debatable whether Grady should be hitting 3rd), that is a big advantage to have when comparing them head to head. Then take into account that Crawford doesnt have the same power capabilities as Sizemore. Crawford has an edge in speed, and steals more bases, but it isn't as if Grady cant burn, he can, and he is still up there with guys like Reyes, Crawford, Hanley and Rollins in that explosive player category, can beat you with their bat, speed, power, etc. Then finally, Grady Sizemore plays a tremendous CF, where he puts up better offensive numbers then Crawford does in LF, where you are looking for more of a power bat. Crawford's OPS+ for his career is 103, Sizemore's is 124. Not to take anything away from Crawford, who is no doubt explosive, exciting, and a hell of a player, but he is not in the same category as Sizemore in my opinion. Now, whether that bounty would be sufficient enough to pry Sizemore away from me is a different story. I honestly couldn't tell you what I would do in Shapiro's shoes.

Ok, darkstar, you got me. You obviously did a bit more homework than I did. I HAVE noticed from watching the games (and I watch every single one that's broadcast on WGN and FOX) that they seem to be a big bi-polar. And by that, I mean what you're saying: they either score a lot or a little. However, when Soriano gets out of his slump, that will obviously provide a boost. I don't expect him to go 40-40 or even live up to his ridiculous contract but he's not going to bat .171 all year. My point was, Griffey would be nice but I'd rather spend my talent on a legitimate leadoff hitter (Roberts) or a top of the rotation starter. I've never, in any thread, been opposed to adding more proven pitching. If Griff can be had for cheap, then by all means, add him to the mix. Couldn't hurt.

Two Points!!

One why in the hell would they want a left-handed leadoff guy?! The point for getting a left handed bat in their lineup is to break up Soriano/Lee/Ramirez with something other than Fukodome, who'll end up with around 5-10 HRs by the end of the season... Don't get me wrong, I think Fukodome is the second best Japanese player in the majors behind Ichiro, but he's best suited to bat 2nd where he can get on base before the big bats...

Also what in the hell does a leadoff hitter need to have power for?! They are there to get on and steal bases! The reason they haven't scored that many runs is their leadoff hitter is running everytime he gets on base and the league knows it, which is why he's been caught so many times. Without a leadoff guy on, there's no one for the big guns to drive in!

I like Gary Matthews Jr. for the job of CF'er... He'd be good for 20-25 HRs in Wrigley and can play all three outfield positions and with the depth the Angels have at OF & DH, they really don't need him or to get Pie back in return. This allows you to keep Pie as a late innings replacement for Soriano!

My guess would be it'll take Marmol and Gallagher for Matthews. They need to find a guy they can groom to replace Rodriguez at closer in case he walks during Free Agency and with Escobar maybe not returning at all, they'll need to plug a hole in their rotation during the offseason and Gallagher should fall in nicely behind Lackey, Santana, Weaver, and Saunders.

Lineup

SS Theriot (R)
RF Fukodome (L)
1B Lee (R)
3B Ramirez (R)
CF Matthews (S)
LF Soriano (R)
C Soto (R)
2B DeRosa (R)
P (undefined)

Second point is that Griffey has stated in many newspapers that he wants to come back to Seattle, so Coltholt, please shut the hell up with the propaganda of trust me I know he'll be back as if your red hot desire alone will force him back into Cinci for 3 more years at 10MM a season, while they have Jay Bruce, Norris Hopper, and Ryan Freel who are much more inexpensive ready to take over for Dunn and Griffey...

With what Bruce brings to the table once he gets going, along with how Encarnacion and Votto have been hitting the baseball, and finally what type of power Phillips has at 2B, they clearly do not need yet another power bat, they'll have 4 for the middle of the order that'll hit 30-35 bombs... Griffey and Dunn are a waste of space as far as a 70MM payroll team is considered! Griffey goes to Seattle within two months, I bet Darkstar's virginity on it!

Man, you seriously are proving yourself to be the single stupidest person I have ever seen in my life… Anyway,

“One why in the hell would they want a left-handed leadoff guy?!”

…They 1) Don’t want Soriano leading off 2) If if they lead off with Soriano, they wouldn’t have to use that LH-LO guy in the 1 spot ~ he could hit 2nd behind Soriano just the same 3) THAT’S WHAT THEY CONTINUELLY SAY THEY WANT!!!!!!

“Also what in the hell does a leadoff hitter need to have power for?! They are there to get on and steal bases!”

…WTF are you talking about again? Is thread also going to be filled with your input on stuff that no one ever talked about?

“The reason they haven't scored that many runs is their leadoff hitter is running everytime he gets on base and the league knows it, which is why he's been caught so many times. Without a leadoff guy on, there's no one for the big guns to drive in!”

…Ahhh…. Ok, see this is the complete and utter crap sentence that lead to my “single stupidest person” comment… Soriano has ZERO Caught-Stealing; ZERO!!! Shoot, he’s not even getting on base to try to steal… Seriously, where do you come up with this stuff…

“I like Gary Matthews Jr. for the job of CF'er...”

…They are not going to take on his contract. People are saying Griffey wouldn’t work because he would want his 09 option picked up. Matthews just doesn’t fit…

“This allows you to keep Pie as a late innings replacement for Soriano!”

…Unless the team is allowed to carry some 30 players on its squad, Pie would be in the minors when another OFer is added. See, teams are limited to 25 guys…

“My guess would be it'll take Marmol and Gallagher for Matthews.”

…They wouldn’t trade Pie and Gallagher for Roberts, who fit their desires perfectly, but will trade their set-up man/future closer and their top young starter now, while the team has exactly 1 reliable starter in its rotation? Really?

“SS Theriot (R)
RF Fukodome (L)
1B Lee (R)
3B Ramirez (R)
CF Matthews (S)
LF Soriano (R)
C Soto (R)
2B DeRosa (R)
P (undefined)”

…And you would bat Matthews 5th??? Seriously, youve got to be kidding me right? Wow…

"I bet Darkstar's virginity on it!"

That is priceless.

Dark, what Lou is saying he wants is a 5th place left handed hitter so he can bat Fukudome 2nd. They have not been saying since spring training that they want a leadoff guy...I don't know where you are getting that. Lou has realized that Fukudome is a better AVG and OBP guy than he thought, and less of a power guy than he thought. SO....he is IDEAL for the 2 spot, but he still wants a lefty in the 5 hole that can protect Rami.

So, what all that means is that you are dead wrong on the leadoff guy...that isn't what anyone is talking about here. They now see their need as being a 5th place left handed hitting bat, and Lou seems to want it in the outfield, which means its most likely CF. That says to me that he is willing to trade Pie for exactly that, assuming it was someone he thought would fit perfectly. I personally think that they already have the PERFECT #5 hitter, even though he isn't left handed. His name? Geovanny Soto. Move Fukudome now and bat Soto 5th!!!

Also Dark, one reliable starter? I'm not the biggest Dempster fan in the world, but look at his numbers. He has been pretty much exactly what you would call reliable. Under 3 era isn't good enough in your book??? Come on.

“"I bet Darkstar's virginity on it!"
That is priceless.”

…Yeah, if youre 12 years old. Well, I guess it would also be possible if a person shared that level of mental capacity…

“Dark, what Lou is saying he wants is a 5th place left handed hitter so he can bat Fukudome 2nd.”

…That’s great ~ except for the fact that Fukudome has exactly 1 game (April 11th) where he has batted lower than 4th. Add in the fact that Fukudome is hitting .296/.310/.370 the last 7 games, and .273/.317/.400 the last 14 ~ well, are you so sure “he is IDEAL for the 2 spot”?

“Also Dark, one reliable starter? I'm not the biggest Dempster fan in the world, but look at his numbers.”

Sure, what do you want to look at? The .192 BAbip? Or maybe the 20BB to 29K in 43IP? Or maybe youre thinking about the H/R split of 4.30 ERA, 1.35 WHIP in 4G at Home vs 0.90 ERA and 0.75 WHIP in 3G on the road (vs Pitt, Wash and Cin)...

He hasn’t faced a winning team yet, the combined record of the teams he has gone up against is 58-77, and 4 of them are in the bottom 6 offenses in the NL ~ with only Pitt escaping that so far. He has pitched well so far, but I’ll refrain from calling him “reliable” until he faces a team that can actually hit the ball, sees his BAbip find a more sustainable level and stops walking a guy pretty much every other inning…

“I'm looking at his 2.72 ERA, his .172 BAA, the fact that he is allowing an OBA of .272, and the fact that his WHIP is 1.07!!! And that takes his biggest problem, walks, into account.”

…with a .192 BAbip! If his BAbip was more in the normal .300 range, his BA-A and OBP-A goes from .172/.272 to about .271/.358. It would also increase his WHIP to about 1.42… Facing nothing but bottom dwelling teams, and being extremely lucky when doing that ~ well, that doesn’t make “reliable”…

“What does how many games he has hit in a higher slot have to do with anything?”

…Uhh, maybe it has something to do with the fact that youre here telling us they want him in the 2 hole above all in the face of the team flat-out not even trying to use him in the 2 spot. If they really, really, really want him there, don’t you think they would actually play him there atleast a couple times?

“YES, I am SURE he is ideal for the 2 slot. He takes as many pitches per at bat than anyone in the game, and has a TERRIFFIC OBP and AVG. He is absolutely IDEAL for the 2 slot. Thats not too hard to figure out...”

…Yeah, .273/.317/.400 the last two weeks is “a TERRIFFIC OBP and AVG”, and that’s definitely the type of hitter I want in my #2 spot… You also really have to love that .209/.289/.299 line on the road in 77 PA…

…Heres an idea though, how about we make sure he can hit American pitching first? Does that sound ok?

Man, you will illogically argue about absolutely anything wont you…

“See if he can hit American pitching???”

IN THE LAST 14 DAYS HE’S HITTING .273/.317/.400!!!!!!! How are you not grasping that? I mean, that’s lower than Juan Pierre territory, and absent the 50 or so steals… But you are going to sit there and say that he has proven he can hit American pitching because of the first 3 or so weeks of his being in the states? Really? So the first 3 weeks of a players American ML career = proves what he can do? Dude, seriously???

“Ok, lets look at how he does at home, you know, the park where he plays half his games. .448/.543/.638/1.181(!!!)”

…with a .532 BAbip!!! Do you seriously believe that half of the balls he puts into play at home the rest of the way will fall in for hits? Normal is about .300, but you think he will sustain a .532?

I’m not saying he is going to suck, but come on! The last two weeks he has been a below average hitter while posting a fairly normal .330-ish BAbip, so its not bad luck. Do you generally take guys who are hitting below the average and move them to an important lineup spot where he will see more ABs and be expected to set the table? Or do you generally do that with guys who are actually playing well?

“Did I really just see you say that those numbers don't qualify as "reliable"??? What a joke.”
…in the post AFTER:
“because I'm not so sure he can sustain it either...”

…HUH??? Ok, so let me get this straight ~ you don’t think he will continue to pitch like this, but he is reliable because he has pitched like this? So when someone gets really, really lucky for a short period of time, and no one thinks he will keep it up, he becomes "reliable"? Ok man…

Really, whatever dude…

“Unlike you, who are taking 14 days worth of sample sizes, I'm willing to take his whole body of work.”

…Oh yeah, my bad ~ I mean, why would someone put less weight on the small portion of his time where ML pitchers had never faced him before, and instead be more concerned with the recent .717 OPS that he has sustained for two weeks? And if he continues to hit .273/.317/.400 the rest of the year, it wont matter ~ he already proved he could hit American pitching back when there weren’t solid scouting reports made-up yet… Right?

“As for Dempster, I would say "reliable" means that you can "rely" on him keeping you in the game most of the time. I don't know if our definitions of the word are different...but thats what I would say. So far, he has done more than just be "reliable". However, he may not, and probably won't keep pitching quite THIS well...and I will say that your BABIP reference would help make a case for that.”

…Ummm, well if that BAbip when to a more normal .300-ish then his line-against would be around .271/.358 and 1.4-ish WHIP ~ we already learned that. But, what does that .271/.358-ish w/ 1.4-ish mean on the mound? Well, that’s fairly close to what Dave Bush has produced for the Brewers so far. Bush has also carried a fairly normal .286 BAbip in putting up that line with a similar BB/K rate, so its probably rather close to what you can expect.

Also, Dempster wouldn’t really have to “implode” or “regress” to get to that Bush Level though, it would be him pitching like he is just not getting as lucky. And unfortunately, I don’t think you would find many people that would call Bush “reliable”. Ryan is not pitching that great, he is just getting much better results than he should ~ hence my saying that he isnt “reliable” even if he has a nice looking statline…

“Reliable” would have to be someone who I can count on to be solid and get solid results because of it ~ not a guy who has produced nice lines mainly because of luck…

Ohhh, WTF…

Look, you are just trying to illogically nit-pick a minor sentence from yesterday into a runaround argument without a point for what reason again? Just because you think Dempster should be called reliable? Even if you yourself somehow feel Dempster is reliable, what difference would it make anyway?

“You can't just tack that on like it happened. The REALITY is that he is pitching well, and above reliable status, period. What you are saying didn't happen...period. He has been more than reliable so far, and thats the only point I was trying to make, and have made it. You saying well...if this had happened than these would be his numbers, so he isn't reliable...is just dumb. It didn't happen. Could in the future, but hasn't right now. “

…Yeah, what HAS HAPPENED is he has been lucky. Take the luck away and you have numbers which look close to what Bush has provided. Has Bush pitched well? Well, Depmster has pitched rather similar to Bush, he has just gotten a bunch of luck added in. Its not brain surgery here…

“Did you really really just say "sustained for two weeks?"
Thats just stupid all by itself. He has "sustained" a .320/.411/.456/.867 line for the entire year so far...but hey, that doesn't matter, right? Its only about what he has done in a 2 week sample size...

…See, youre just reaching in your eternal attempt to argue here too. Yes, he has “sustained” a .273/.317/.400 the last two weeks because he has produced basically the same results both weeks! Last week it was .296/.310/.370, the week before it was .250/.323/.429 ~ that looks like he is sustaining that range to me… See, “sustained” means “continued”, which is what he did… Now, if he had hit .320/.411/.867 nearly every week to this point then he would have “sustained” that line. But he hasn’t, has he? This isnt rocket science either man…

“Come on...you act like I don't know your bu*lsh*t act by now...”

See, you “know (my) bu*lsh*t act”, right? An “ACT” which is nothing more than going with Facts and Trends instead of the generalized, out-of-context statements like “they have the best offense in baseball so far” or “their rotation is fine, they were 2nd in ERA last year” right? Yeah, my “bu*lsh*t act” that is absolutely more than wondering WTF you could even remotely be thinking when you do these little nitpick the smallest sentences you can find and runaround for hours without a real point games you pull… There was absolutely no need for any of the above conversation, you are just in the same runaround argument you always give when you feel like you want to argue about nothing…

“And you never answered me about Soto...are you ready to say you were wrong about him yet?”

…And why the F* would I want to listen to more of your babble when I never wanted to have a conversation with you in the first place? You tried to nitpick me, you called me out for things you don’t think are true, and your “point” is in its normal continual-change mode as you try to find something else to draw out the conversation long enough for you to feel correct or whatever. I don’t care man, you can believe they have the best offense in spite of their scoring score 3 or fewer 50% of the time, or Fukudome is a sure thing monster at the plate because of his pre-scouting report numbers, or Dempster is a reliable rotation arm because he has been lucky or whatever else you want ~ it doesn’t matter to me at all what you feel inside. I myself would like to see real, solid, sustainable proof or evidence of such things, but that doesn’t mean you cant get all excited over all the crap… And seriously, throw all the runaround arguments you try to throw out wont change the fact that I don’t care…

Okay things I said that no one believed at the time within the last few months... For the benefit of nrmax and darkstar... I said Wang was a number 1 and EVERYONE said I was nuts yet he's clearly going to be sniffing 20 wins yet again... I said Blanton wasn't an ace and low and behold, he hasn't been... I said Clement and Balentien would be up within a month of the season starting, back in February, not once everyone could hit in April... Easy to predict that one! I did it when everyone was still talking about Bedard being a Mariner... I said that the Rangers were going to be a much better team than everyone thought... I said the Yankees would be close to the bottom and that the Rays and Orioles would probably be better than them... I said that Boston and Blue Jays will be in the top two positions in the East... ALL OF THESE POINTS I WAS CRAZY, ALL OF THESE POINTS I WAS STUPID, YET I'M ALWAYS RIGHT... KEEP NOTES FOR NOW ON, SEE HOW MANY TIMES I PUT A PREDICTION OUT THERE AND IT HAPPENS SMART *SS, YOU GOT THE BALLS TO DO THAT MUCH OR JUST KEEP TALKING SH*T WHILE I KEEP PULLING BOLD PREDICTIONS OUT OF MY *SS THAT KEEP COMING TRUE!! I ALSO PREDICTED THE MARINERS RE-SIGNING KENJI WHILE EVERYONE SAID HE WAS GONE... I BET THE MARINERS STILL ROLL OFF 95-100 WINS THIS SEASON, EVEN WITH THEM 8 GAMES UNDER .500 RIGHT NOW! SO TALK CRAP, BUT KISS MY *SS THIS FALL WHEN THEY'RE IN THE PLAYOFFS! I'LL BET DARKSTAR THEY STILL WIN 95 GAMES AND IF THEY DO, HE'S GOTTA STOP COMING TO THIS SITE, IF THEY DON'T, I'LL STOP COMING HERE!!! NEED YOUR MOMMY TO LET YOU HAVE YOUR BALLS BACK SO YOU CAN MAN UP, OR CAN YOU IOU THE TESTOSTERONE AS USUAL?!?!

had 7 consecutive 200 hit seasons...

sus·tain Audio Help (sə-stān') Pronunciation Key
tr.v. sus·tained, sus·tain·ing, sus·tains

1) To keep in existence; maintain.
2) To supply with necessities or nourishment; provide for.
3) To support from below; keep from falling or sinking; prop.
4) To support the spirits, vitality, or resolution of; encourage.
5) To bear up under; withstand: can't sustain the blistering heat.
6) To experience or suffer: sustained a fatal injury.
7) To affirm the validity of: The judge has sustained the prosecutor's objection.
8) To prove or corroborate; confirm.
9) To keep up (a joke or assumed role, for example) competently.

Okay Darkstar, last post tonight... above is the definitions for sustained, based off YOUR WORD choice here are the ways we can take what you meant about the "two week time period Soto """""SUSTAINED""""", but tell me which way you meant it after I break each number down to you!!

1) For you to keep in existence or maintain it would infer that it is irregular for you to produce stats on that level, and so you would resort to the mean which is much higher or in other words, you incorrectly used the word, making you an idiot or you supported the oppositions' argument, making you an idiot, you choose!

2) You would have to be an idiot to use it like this as it has a 2nd person/3rd person tone to this referring to the care for and that clearly doesn't apply!

3) So if you say this, then you anticipate his slump to be his average and below his average will be yet another slump?! I'm not following... You think that he got in a groove for the other how many games?! Then when he was already raking, he double up and got hotter that hot?! I'll tell Peter Gammons that you've earmarked a new term He's Raking to the 2nd Power!! Because clearly he has a better gear than this one you chose to point out and you seem to infer that there's a worse... Sorry but EVERY PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF BASEBALL HAS A RAKING TOTAL AND A SLUMPING TOTAL THAT IS FAIRLY SIMILAR YEAR IN AND YEAR OUT, THAT MEANS HE'S A .310 AVG CAREER HITTER IS MY GUESS!

4) How would one encourage a batting average, OBP, and slugging percentage?! Just curious, NEXT!!!

5) Again presupposes that he has two levels of slump and two levels of raking, just not realistic, either makes you ignorant or a moron, I just don't know if your stupidity is legitimate or if you can be educated into making a logical argument... For now we'll go with you're a moron, I feel more comfortable putting my reputation behind that!

6) Now we're talking, this sounds like the correct meaning, because he is clearly hitting way worse than he is capable of hitting and probably well below what his career average will be! So you just proved the plaintiffs side, go job defendant, want a cookie?!

7) Okay in this example you would be validated that the numbers are accurate, way to go!! You overcame illiteracy, want a party?! NEXT!!!

8) Again, confirming you numbers are accurate, which we'll say they are for argument's sake and still that is only a glimpe of the real picture, but you give slanted evidence... A judge would hold you in contempt if you were a lawyer with all your double-dealing "information" you'd be disbarred, you're like the ambulance chasing litigators of blogging! So you confirmed he's in a slump only helps the other side, not really proves anything for you!

9) This can't be the one because it would associate you with being competent! Clearly you are many things but that is not one of them! The only role you've sustained by bringing up that comment is not a level of mediocrity for Soto, but rather your own less than pleasing efforts resulting in poor performance... You are a fool that doesn't know how to build an argument with stats and my Peruvian girlfriend who speaks English as a 2nd language has better language comprehension than you do! Way to go!

What do you know? Dark comes back and gets involved in YET ANOTHER Cubs thread, saying more things that show is lack of an IQ over 10.

Ready to eat your crow about Soto yet?

That first paragraph you wrote doesn't say anything relevent to anything, and its just idiotic. Get an IQ, get a life, and then get back to me.

A third grader knows how to use quotes...yet you still haven't figured it out. You quote something, in this case yourself, when ITS SOMETHING YOU ACTUALLY SAID! You never said that, you are making a paraphrase that makes it sound like thats all you said, instead of the idiotic statements that you actually made. Go to school for a day in your life...hell, third grade probably, and you would know this stuff.

You mocked me for saying Soto could be a top 5 catcher in the NL...and right now, he is among the best in all of baseball. Get off your high horse you pathetic little pri*k. Go away. You are to cubs threads like a maggot is to sh*t. Shew.