Maybe it has something to do with this comment from Sosnick:
"Josh Hamilton might win the Triple Crown this year, but Jay is better," Sosnick said. "I'll take it to the grave. I'll take my lumps from my [other] players for saying that. He's unequivocally the best player we've ever had in terms of talent and upside and the chance to be successful. He's a once-in-a-lifetime player for me."
What good could possibly come from makng that statement? I'm not saying that was what made Josh leave but it is a curious decision to even say that. You can heap all kinds of praise on the kid without leveling comparisons to your stable of clients.
i just read up some more on this kid since ive never really heard of him before, talk about a haunting past with drugs. i can understand his decision, mike piazza had a very open life to christian faith and media attention, and i can see how both men would want that to play a vital role, that doesnt shock me. as long as the kid can stay healthy, and if having christian agents help that, then amen to that
As to why Cincy would make those comments, in the latest SI they do a piece on Hamilton where he states that there was a lot of resentment for the attention he got from the Cincy clubhouse, especially Brandon Phillips (surprise surprise). Maybe this is just tem firing back.
grimace
yea it matters to him, who are we to tell him any different. It's just a weird thing to be discussed. He has every right to switch agents for whatever reason he wants and it doesn't make him wrong in any way. And why is it so bad that someone talks and acts openly about their faith. He's not hurting anyone it's his life. If you don't like it then don't watch him.
I find it incredibly arrogant when a pro athlete says stuff like "i was a drug addict, but god came and saved me from it." Sure Josh, God saved you from addiction because you're so much more worthy than every other crack addict in the world.
It's the same kind of stuff when people survive a natural disaster. "Thanks to god I was spared from the storm..." as if God chose them over innocent babies that were killed.
i guess you right darkstar, his 147 game career is something i really should put under the microscope, seriously, what does it matter if ive never heard of an outfielder from texas of all places? his two year career deserves my undivided attention?
and how does his decision to switch to a christian stable make him arrogant? he is probably the least arrogant person ive seen in awhile, he is acutally refreshing
“It's the same kind of stuff when people survive a natural disaster. "Thanks to god I was spared from the storm..." as if God chose them over innocent babies that were killed. it's disgusting.”
Posted by: MrQuestions
…Interesting… So you don’t think God would save a person knowing that the person would glorify Him afterward? I mean, isnt that kind of what He has done over the entire span of existence ~ but He would stop now and those players should stop glorifying Him for His help?
See, I was always under the impression that pretty much the entire point of the Bible was to get others to share the word, and glory of our Lord, with others… Guess not though…
“i guess you right darkstar, his 147 game career is something i really should put under the microscope, seriously, what does it matter if ive never heard of an outfielder from texas of all places? his two year career deserves my undivided attention?”
…It has nothing, and I mean nothing, to do with his ML career with Tex to this point. Hamilton was a household name amongst baseball fans ever since his first year in professional baseball ~ and his problems were only mentioned constantly. I would say if you proclaim yourself to be a big baseball fan, and you don’t know much about Hamilton, then you must be a rather young teen ~ hence my asking your age…
well boston sports channels must have decided to skip his story because ive never heard about his stories until right now. and i never proclaimed to be anything other then a sox fan ever on this site, youve seen me on here long enough to probably know better then that. and im not a teenager im in my lower 20's if that still proves your case for you
"you see his christian faith as him being an anti-semite?"
Did you ever read the post? I asked if it was possible that Sosnick's being Jewish was a component of the move, as it appears to have been. Further, it makes Hamilton look like a bit of an ingrate, given his history.
The point I am trying to make is that I don't think being Christian should factor into who negotiates your contract. Almost every agent is going to look out for the better interests of their client regardless of faith.
"The point I am trying to make is that I don't think being Christian should factor into who negotiates your contract. Almost every agent is going to look out for the better interests of their client regardless of faith."
Absolutely correct. As a plaintiff's lawyer, I don't make money unless I win for my clients. The same is true for agents, who have their income based on how much money they get for their clients. You can bet Sosnick-Crabbe have gotten Josh Hamilton every dime they can, not to mention that they negotiate contracts with a greater sense of what is right than Boras ever would.
"well boston sports channels must have decided to skip his story because ive never heard about his stories until right now"
...I thought you were a Boston fan, and that had a lot to do with my questioning it. Think of it this way, what if Phillip Hughes became a drug addict suspended, and in a longterm struggle to make the MLs after all the hype he got last year. Or maybe the same thing happening to Jay Bruce… Can you imagine the press such a thing would come with? Thats what Hamiltons press was like… Hamilton was to be the best player we have seen drafted since ARod, and no one doubted it. He was “the prospect” that everyone talked about, and he was in Bostons division…
"In fact, could it be possible that Hamilton is an anti-Semite?"
...From what I have heard, he has been extremely open about his conversion to Christianity. That makes such a thing near impossible....
...As to the "Why should religion mean anything" part ~ I take it you are not religious at all, are you?
“The point I am trying to make is that I don't think being Christian should factor into who negotiates your contract. Almost every agent is going to look out for the better interests of their client regardless of faith.”
…Where this would logically look correct, there is quite a difference. Making a public move to support your beliefs leads to publicity, and inturn spreading of the beliefs. Hamilton is taking actions which will bring positive attention to his faith, Christianity calls this sharing the light. There are many players, and public figures in general, who are deeply rooted in their faith, but most people would never know about it ~ and where that isnt wrong, its not completely helping either. Well, atleast to the extent that it could…
…A move like this of course isnt going to excite everyone who doesn’t share his faith, and many will try to attack him/it with comments like the “God is dead” post above. However, that is not whats important ~ and moves like this can be much more important than you obviously think for people of faith. A openly-Christian agency wouldn’t be able to proclaim themselves that if they did not do things to make a difference somewhere based off their faith. A high-profile person openly making a switch to such a company is bringing attention to his beliefs, and showing that he will support efforts when he can.
…Oh, and to that MrQuestion guy that posted in the wrong thread ~ your beliefs are your beliefs, and not shared by everyone. Your open to your opinion, but it doesn’t make it any more correct than anyone elses on the topic… A person has a right to share their opinion though, and youre not liking it will not change anything...
“I think it's time to close the comments on this one.”
…because a thread covering nothing more than a player going with a Christian company, has brought about a conversation on the topic of his choosing to go with a Christian company?
If anything, I would think topics like the “Blanton/Furcal/Penny/Burnett/Greinke” thread which turned into a Cubs Fantasy-wish-list argument over Pie for Harden would be more logical to close, this one atleast talks about the topic presented to us…
"I find it incredibly arrogant when a pro athlete says stuff like "i was a drug addict, but god came and saved me from it." Sure Josh, God saved you from addiction because you're so much more worthy than every other crack addict in the world."
God saved him from his addiction because he asked God into his life. That is what makes him worthy and difference from other crack addicts.
Maybe its just me ... but someone who only a few posts ago jumped into the conversation with the comment that "God is dead" should not be saying "its time to close the comments" ... just my opinion lol
Now yeah I understand this is a baseball website ... but if you don't want us to discuss something like this ... then don't add fuel to the fire
I personally commend the kid on doing the best he can to bring attention to what he believes ... He has the ability to spread his faith more than most and I'm glad hes trying to do it ... unfortunatly alot of people can't handle it when this sensitive subject is touched upon and they decide to attack the kid and anyone who tries to agree with him ... it's sad
Okay, I can buy the going with a Christian agency in regards to connections to more faith based promotions and endorsements. As for spreading the word, I think his recovery and ability to stay clean would be a stronger testament. For all we know this could be Jon Heyman doing his usual specualtion as to why Hamilton switched. Yes, the agency he switched to his Christian based, but from a glance at their respective websites, it appears the one Hamilton chose has more experience with bigger clients as well.
By that I mean that I shouldn't have thrown fuel on the fire. Regarding the "it's so hard to be a Christian in this world" and "it's so sad," I will respectfully take a pass...
"Mythical men in the sky don't save people from their addiction. Rehab does."
Having something or someone to believe actually gets you through rehab. Ever wonder why recovering addicts and convicts turn to God and find rehabilitation? Because it gives them purpose and a support system. There is a reason why faith is so deep in these two areas, because it works. I am not big on religion but it definitely helps in this regard.
I'm glad you got half my point and replied respectfully ... as far as the second half...
I wasn't trying to say "poor me" there ... I was trying to criticize people who get all bent out of shape whenever anyone discusses religious topics
AA is a perfect example ... he apparently views God as a "mythical man in the sky" ... but then why is he posting on this topic? why does he care? thats the attitude I was criticizing ... people who try to act like Christians are so arrogant and self-righteous and yet at the same time are coming back and attacking and putting down Christians for what they believe ... we should have a little more respect (often on both sides) is all I'm saying
whatever ... opinions aren't going to change in an internet discussion and most conversations of this sort are rather pointless ... so lol maybe it would be better to close this to comments before it gets out of control
“By that I mean that I shouldn't have thrown fuel on the fire. Regarding the "it's so hard to be a Christian in this world" and "it's so sad," I will respectfully take a pass...”
…Who said “it's so hard to be a Christian in this world”? Infact, the Bible tells a Christian that they are to expect, and rejoice in the face of persecution for their faith. A person of strong belief would have no problem what so ever with people attacking them over said faith.
He was just saying that people sadly do such a thing ~ I believe implying that it’s a rather sad world if all so many people can think to do is attack a person for actually believing in something….
“Mythical men in the sky don't save people from their addiction. Rehab does.”
What a strange statement… I mean, its not like this is some heated argument where everyone is at eachothers throats or anything ~ this is just talking about it really. Does it bother you that much that its even being talked about? This conversation is actually perfectly fine in my mind; its great to talk about such things and the more and more people are able to talk openly and calmly on the topic, the better the world will be. A person closing their mind to possibilities is the worst thing that can happen, its just pointless bigotry…
…Anyway, wanted to say sorry for my comment which addressed things also addressed in other replies ~ Type-key did its little games, and by the time my comment was registered, of course IAmSam explained what he meant…
The whole "religion" thing just stinks. If Sosnick helped him to get just about to the finishline of a big deal, helped him thru the rough times, etc., they HE should be due compensation and commission. To bail on Sosnick now just sucks.
"Mythical men in the sky don't save people from their addiction. Rehab does."
Your statement does not hold water. It has been proven over the years that twelve steps programs that are spiritually based are far more effective then those that are not. Rehab without the spiritual component has proven inneffective.
"Your statement does not hold water. It has been proven over the years that twelve steps programs that are spiritually based are far more effective then those that are not. Rehab without the spiritual component has proven inneffective."
And I am sure you have plenty of neutral evidence of that.
Maybe some of you will fail to see the comparison, *ahem* Darkstar *ahem*, but I'll give it anyways. Sorry, I have to make at least one shot at him, I mean he is a horse's ass and it is a date on the calendar with a numerical value between 1 and 31. So anyways, on to the less enjoyable part of me writing this!
Have you noticed in the bible, what is the re-occurring theme when boiled down in all commandments and everything else?! Well, here's the short version, "too much of a good thing isn't good." Now we can get to the comparison.
First, my disclaimer:
I am Christian, non-religious, yes you can be both! Just means that I don't believe in following another person's interpretation of the Bible. Ever tried to play the telephone game, go figure why I'm not religious, right?! It means centuries of time, multiple languages, differing dialects, education backgrounds, personal agendas, political influences, social influences, I could go on all day, but I don't want Darkstar to pass out from using his brain. Anyways, in the end I'm smart enough to be able to discern the Bible a lot better than most that do it for a living.
End of disclaimer:
Anecdotal Evidence:
For instance millions of people go to church because and I'll paraphrase as this is in direct correlation with the article and breakdown in Darkstar-ese... "Thou (a believer) shall (action of intent) congregate (get together) worship (customs tied to a religion) in the house (a structure or dwelling, also can be inferred as open air in a specific locale) of the Lord (God) and surround (hang out with) thyself (the same believer) with others (fellow believers) that share (practice equivalently) your faith (the Christian religion)."
Problem here is that Christian leaders don't get paid if you aren't in church and if they were doing God's work shouldn't they keep a normal job and then do services for free without the implied guilt of tithing. Of course not they should get paid too because it takes so long to write their morning sermon, yet anyone not suffering from illiteracy could do it in the time any of us sit down to watch our team play ONE out of 5-7 games a week!
Point being that if they weren't pushing that as a call to come to service, a lot of people would feel free to follow the INTENT of the verse I paraphrased and just invite over other Christian people to their house and spend time with people who share similar beliefs as a building lived in by a believer of God is a house of the Lord, no different than a church and if you have Christian friends over for a BBQ and spend the afternoon at your house you are doing exactly as the paraphrased verse says!
My point hinges on your understanding even if you don’t agree, a) my views, b) the flawed logic of religion, c) how ALL religions are susceptible to corruption, d) most people do wrong in this world while using religion as their alibi. The point is that his blind trust in someone because of their supposed “shared beliefs” is the same reason planes were flown into the twin towers on 9/11.
Sorry, but it’s really not that different, he’s not killing anybody, but it’s not the action I’m talking about that follows it’s the mindset that’s in place. He has given to the belief that no Christian would lie or deceive him the same problem that these young Muslims boys have that grow up to be terrorists. Seriously, if the after life as a martyr was so great why aren’t the leaders the first ones in line to blow themselves up?! Oh yeah because they are trying to fight a Holy War using Hole-y Logic not Holy Logic.
One of three things is going on here with Josh “Hammy” (that was cute, you know him intimately?) Hamilton:
1) He’s an idiot for letting some guy be his agent because he’s “also Christian”, while Hamilton is still smart enough to not be Mormon, so 84 on an IQ test.
2) An addiction for coke is being replaced by religion.
3) It’s a greed thing and he doesn’t want to piss off the Rangers with quashing the contract since he’s killing baseballs and that way one day he can retire with a lifetime supply of coke, which based on his problems, would be about three eight balls before he goes out like Jimi.
I hope I’m wrong, but there’s nothing good about this decision, this doesn’t usher in good thoughts of getting closer to God, it stinks of being greedy and that’s definitely not where God resides. ALSO, MrQuestions brought up the point about Hamilton being arrogant; well there a few things that went through my mind simultaneously, so I’ll throw them out there to be food for thought. One, there aren’t many people that don’t turn to God while in crisis, so just about anyone He saves is technically eligible for saying His praises, so to Darkstar, He doesn’t PICK anyone, first point goes to “MrQuestions.”
Also, to believe that he saves anyone also means that he chooses to kill others and you can’t have it one way, which is why we have Satan, Lucifer, The Devil, El Diablo, Hades, The Dark Angel, etc. Technically if you want to start kicking over those rocks be prepared to discuss the effects of we’ll call him Satan from here on. Technically the religious types believe that natural disasters and evil are tests by Satan to see if truly believe in God and to test our obedience.
Another point, when it talks about praising God and in the context of testifying about your faith, to also give testimonials, but it refers to it as share God’s word. Most take it to mean, an in-your-face, this is how I was saved and you need to be saved too approach. There are those that knock on a stranger’s door and act surprised when they are not well received. Others that will say his name 30 times a day with conviction as if it’s any different than love, which the more you say it, the less you are feeling.
The real intent is for followers to LITERALLY share God’s word, as in turn His words into actions and to not put words of praise or displeasure upon Him. In the end we are to do without placing responsibility, be better without accolades for us or Him. A person will come to another Christian without instruction, it’s always been that people find what they are looking for, even when they don’t know what it is they desire.
So yeah, I think Bible talk is crap, just like kissing a cross, making a cross on your chest, or pointing to God in The Heavens is crap too when you are playing sports. As if God cares that you caught a pass for a TD, got a HR, or struck out a batter! Yes, I do believe in Devine intervention, but it only exists when it benefits the whole, not the one. As in, God didn’t make Hamilton a great baseball player to praise Him in front of the masses. He will however lay the groundwork for a guy like William Wilberforce to against all odds free the slaves as the historical occurrence was retold in “Amazing Grace.”
Sorry, but there is nothing here that should be praised about what Hamilton is doing and I hope for his sake he learns that you can have religion and that doesn’t mean you have to share it with everyone else within a stones throw. God doesn’t care about business and to bring him into your business affairs, in anything but company principles, is as stupid as mixing religion and politics, it’s just bad business, excuse the pun.
Hey AA, no offense, but are you an ambulance chaser?! You said "plaintiff's lawyer" and that sounds like a fancy way of saying you chase after lawsuits to get paid... If so, how's it pay? Just kidding, nice having a person here who knows how to have a structured debate, watch out for Darkstar though, almost all his evidence is inadmissible. Usually it's been tampered with! He is good at dirty though, he's like a molecular scientist. It's like he does statistical gene splicing... He's like the "love child" of a mentally challenged Bob Costas and a drunk Harry Carey!
I assume his faith plays a big part in getting over his drug addiction, so moving to a more "Christian" agency is likely just an attempt to keep himself surrounded by people who won't be a bad influence on him and will help him maintain that path.
Hamilton is still smart enough to not be Mormon - posted by baseball guru in his 15,000 word post. Something in particular about Mormons you dislike? or you just figured theres not many of them and there wouldn't be any backlash and you could toss it out in an attempt at wit?
We are talking about someone changing agaents for goodness sake. He can do what h wants however and whenever he wants with agent choices. That's like saying you can't pick a lawyer because you feel more comfortable with him. The reason does not matter. It's his freaking agent it represents him.
"'In fact, could it be possible that Hamilton is an anti-Semite?'
...From what I have heard, he has been extremely open about his conversion to Christianity. That makes such a thing near impossible...."
What does his "conversion" have to do with making it impossible for him to be an anti-Semite? Far greater evidence is that he left his Jewish agent, one who works so hard for his clients they get his logo tattooed on their arms and one who definately doesn't fit the Boras mold, for a "Christian stable."
“God bless you, dark, but you have no ear for humor...”
…That, after your involvement in the conversation, was an attempt humor? Ok… Maybe we should just say I enjoy a different level of humor…
“I assume his faith plays a big part in getting over his drug addiction, so moving to a more "Christian" agency is likely just an attempt to keep himself surrounded by people who won't be a bad influence on him and will help him maintain that path. You guys are looking too deep into this.”
…Like IAmSam said ~ a person doing something to show, or support, his/her faith is generally going to be questioned or attacked solely because of said faith…
“What does his "conversion" have to do with making it impossible for him to be an anti-Semite? Far greater evidence is that he left his Jewish agent, one who works so hard for his clients they get his logo tattooed on their arms and one who definately doesn't fit the Boras mold, for a "Christian stable."”
…Do you by chance know what a Christian is?
…And then of course we have the 4-thousand word rant from “guru” which I wont bother reading. If there was anything important in it, I figure someone else would have mentioned it ~ but I see his normal pitiful, obsessive, attempt at bashing me so it must all be trash…
How much of an idiot are you? You are saying that you are smart enough to "discern" the bible, when all you are doing is exactly what you said the "religious leaders" are doing. You are twisting what you are reading to get a point across. And why shouldn't Hamilton be "praised"? He beat an addiction of cocaine. Got his life back on track and now is a star in MLB. That's a pretty big turn around, and I think anyone should be praised for half of that.
Also money isn't everything to some people. So for him he knows that any agent will get him the money, so him changing his agent his just his attempt to surround himself with people that he thinks will keep him on track. Why can't you people just be happy for him and not start calling him an anti-semite for making a move that will better himself. Not everything has a dark motive.
"…Like IAmSam said ~ a person doing something to show, or support, his/her faith is generally going to be questioned or attacked solely because of said faith…"
I don't even think it's that deep. I'm not religious at all, but I don't care what someone else wants to believe. If turning to Christianity helps him beat an addiction and turn out a spectacular baseball career, more power to him. And if that's his motivation, I'd like to see him motivated from every possible angle--including his agent. He just wants to work with like-minded people.
…Yeah, the post was just saying that… It was stating that anything showing or supporting faith is oftentimes attacked by others ~ as has happened here…
And Ok, fine ~ I broke down and read a bit of the post since it seems it might be rather funny (I mean, multiple others are calling you out on it so…)
Couple things:
1 ~ man, youre obsession with me is even worse than I thought… What is it, about every 3rd sentence you have to mention my name?
2 ~ you apparently have read atleast portions of the Bible, but dont seem to understand it completely. Case in point ~ in one of your rants you say God kills people (since he saves others). The Bible tells people that dying is not a bad thing; that life is not really about this planet. How does that equate? The best example of this misunderstanding (or twisting) is visible in the portion regarding Hamilton though ~ “God didn’t make Hamilton a great baseball player to praise Him in front of the masses.” …So what exactly do you consider all the Disciples and Prophets to be? One person set with a mission of spreading (and of course many times, but not necessarily, simultaneously living by) the word, correct?
But God wouldn’t do something which you feel only betters one person, just so he can praise Him to others, right? The Bible speaks of gifts, and how people are to utilize those gifts to help spread the word ~ wouldn’t being able to play baseball at an extreme level allowing for mass public recognition be considered a gift which could be utilized to reach others? Shoot, even if his mission was to help a handful of others struggling with drug addiction, couldn’t that alone be worth it? A couple of that handful go on to do the same, some of those do the same, and who knows where it ends… I’ve never heard a single believer proclaim that God would ignore individuals ~ and it seems an illogical stance considering that the masses are certainly affected by the actions of individuals on a near daily basis…
“it is a date on the calendar with a numerical value between 1 and 31” …That brings us to:
3 ~ …That date on the calendar is the day you go away. Here is the post again:
“I BET THE MARINERS STILL ROLL OFF 95-100 WINS THIS SEASON, EVEN WITH THEM 8 GAMES UNDER .500 RIGHT NOW! SO TALK CRAP, BUT KISS MY *SS THIS FALL WHEN THEY'RE IN THE PLAYOFFS! I'LL BET DARKSTAR THEY STILL WIN 95 GAMES AND IF THEY DO, HE'S GOTTA STOP COMING TO THIS SITE, IF THEY DON'T, I'LL STOP COMING HERE!!! NEED YOUR MOMMY TO LET YOU HAVE YOUR BALLS BACK SO YOU CAN MAN UP, OR CAN YOU IOU THE TESTOSTERONE AS USUAL?!?!”
…So yeah, its closer to the 31 Days ~ 31 more M’s loses and no more “guru”…
…But it is interesting the instant “you live in your moms basement” argument you pull out when someone doesn’t believe whatever hard-to-swallow theory you tell them to believe is coming from a man who considers himself a strong Christian…
I don't always agree with you Dark - in fact I don't hink we have ever debated anything, just the occasional swapping of opinions in a somewhat civil manner ( well within reason anyways - nothing wrong with obvious humorous jabs ). But I am now right next to you counting the days to the banishment of the guru. Best part is even if he gets a new screen name - he can't do the 23 paragraph post without being called out and thats got to kill him. In keeping with the religious theme of this thread - this is now the 2nd time in a week I have sided with Dark ( the other being against Aduncaroo a fellow cub fan) - that has to be a sign of the apocolypse.
wow ... ok um ... like I previously stated ... conversations of this nature, especially on a baseball website, are rather pointless ... these discussions tend to get out of control and niether side is really listened to ... sorry if I'm just piling on but, like those who posted before me, I still can't help making a couple points...
first of all ... guru over here apparently believes he has interpretted the Bible clearly on his own and this gives him the authority to run down other peoples beliefs ... I'm not even gonna start to discuss his arguments as its highly unlikely he's about to change his stance ... but I will say I certainly disagree with the way he is going about things on this board ... and his attitude alone shows me he missed a few things when "discerning" what the Bible says ... at least try to give people a little respect, whether you think they deserve it or not ... but, of course, you have probably already stopped reading my post and have moved on to typing a reply in which you try to run me down and ridicule me for even thinking of criticizing you ... I can't do anything about that...
secondly, I think this conversation has gone way overboard ... it's impossible for us to know Hamilton's true motives here ... only he and God knows ... but I tried to commend him because I would like to think he is trying to draw attention to his faith and because I think he simply wants to work with people who agree with and will uphold his values during his business negotiations ... I know I would ... and even if it is "bad business" at least he's trying to do his business they way he believes is right ... he's trying to stand for something ... that's what I would like to think anyways...
Sorry if I pushed this further ... it would be nice if conversations like this could be carried on with some respect ... but this is the world we live in...
…Yeah, the post was just saying that… It was stating that anything showing or supporting faith is oftentimes attacked by others ~ as has happened here…"
"Like-minded people" still sounds like a very thinly veiled way of saying religious bias.
So he would rather work with people he knows uphold the same beliefs as he does ... calling that "Religious bias" sound like a very thinly veiled attempt to portray that in a negative light
“"Like-minded people" still sounds like a very thinly veiled way of saying religious bias.”
…I have to agree with IAmSam. I have a hard time really understanding how that can be perceived negative, no matter how I look at it. I mean, think of it this way ~ is a Democrat wrong for voting Democrat? Or is he trying to pull something underhanded if he works on a Democratic campaign? Or how about a vegan ~ would they be considered out of line if they maybe went to work for a Vet? Would there be some type of bias shown if they, say, left a job at Wall-Mart to start said job?
Think of it this way ~ couldn’t calling such a simple action out as if its somehow underhanded be considered by some as a form of bigotry itself?
"first of all ... guru over here apparently believes he has interpretted the Bible clearly on his own and this gives him the authority to run down other peoples beliefs"
Wow, lol. This line right here sums up Guru in a nutshell. Even when it comes to the bible, he has the most knowledge and we are all lucky to be graced with his explanations on the Bible, the Mariners, and god knows what else.
"Like-minded people" means "people less likely to expose him to his addiction, and therefore the odds he'll relapse are that much smaller." He's just trying to minimize his exposure to bad influences, knowing he may not be able to control himself if he's put into that situation again. It's religion that keeps the drugs away in his case, but it could be exercise, skydiving, or posting 1300-word entries on internet trade rumor blogs...
“Wow, lol. This line right here sums up Guru in a nutshell.”
I really don’t know what to make of him. Sometimes I feel he is just trying to troll, that he cant possibly believe half the things he says. Sometimes I think he must be rather young with quite low self-esteem ~ apparently feeling the need to act bigger than he actually is. He seems to have a rather difficult time staying on topic, and doesn’t necessarily back up what he says as much as just keep repeating it ~ I’ve seen posts that pretty much start off with a sentence, seemingly go into a description of Roadrunner cartoons, get back on topic solely to repeat the first sentence and then end in “youre ignorant”. And his obvious, unhealthy, obsession with me, where I’m only one of countless posters who has had a problem with him… But on the other hand, he does speak fairly well, and is quick to point out errors in others grammar and such…
Its all like a giant contradiction really. If he was truly intelligent, and with a higher education, then you would think he would realize that his tendencies show quite the opposite. You would also have to think he would be able to grasp things outside of his preset mindstate if he was really intelligent ~ but he completely refuses, and adamantly argues, against anything he doesn’t want to believe… If he wasn’t with a higher education, then he must spend a ton of time trying to look up things just for the rather meaningless opportunity to put others down ~ but that seems unlikely even for him. Its why I lean towards young quite often, as if he is just learning these things now ~ it would most likely be fresh in his mind and leading him to be more inclined to comment on it…
…Ahh, whatever ~ 30 more loses and none of it will matter anymore anyway… :)
Isnt it Ironic that Gurus m's were Swept by the Angel!!
And God Bless J-Ham, he did not take god as many people do with a miracle is put on there laps and then they dont pay attention, Hamilton took this miracle god gave him and he put himself with people he knows and we be with him and with christ,
Everyone who has said anything in here against hamilton why?
Guys, Guys, Guys. As the "source" (it was I who spoke with Sosnick), the issue is not so much about religion, but rather the fact that Sosnick (and his whole Firm) has been supporting Hamilton since being drafted in 1999. Sosnick was with him thru the lowest, darkest days. He was negotiating a long term contract for Hamilton, with his permission. And as they were about to sign the deal, Hamilton had his "dream" and summarily dumped Sosnick. The reason for the dumping is immaterial to me, though it's clearly the focus. Hamilton's reason could have been race (though not literally, here) or some other rationale, but it doesn't detract from the fact that he is dumping his long-time agent as he's about to sign a monster contract... that the agent helped negotiate and therefore "earned" as commission.
Agents can be as despicable as you can imagine but Sosnick's not "quite" cut from the same cloth, though maybe he is. But the main point is that he served his client dutifully for years and deserves the commissions on the contract.
This thread is one of a kind. I think that most of us here, while we have our opinions and faiths, don't really know what to do with this thread. We are so used to having discussions about baseball, sometimes heated (me and Dark), that a topic like this throws us a little...
About Hamilton,
What non-religious people have to realize is that religious people try and help other people out of the same religion. For instance, a scientologiest would almost certianly hire another scientologist as thier agent, if there are any. Probably the same with a Mormon (who are not any less smart as guru stated, than anybody else) I'm surprised more people didn't call him out for that....anyway...
This isn't really even a surprise, other than the fact that Hamilton really seems to be pursuing his faith, which I applaud him for.
I respect anyone that really pursues their faith, even if it isn't the same as my own. Believe me, if everything in this world is all we have to live for, I frankly don't see the point.
"I have a hard time really understanding how that can be perceived negative, no matter how I look at it."
Probably because you buy into the same stuff Hamilton does. The real negative, as mentioned above, is that this ingrate left an agent who stood by him through the deepest doldrums of addiction and has been negotiating a contract that will set him for life. And why? Because his agent is Jewish .
"The real negative, as mentioned above, is that this ingrate left an agent who stood by him through the deepest doldrums of addiction and has been negotiating a contract that will set him for life. And why? Because his agent is Jewish ."
Thats one of the most ignorant statements ever on this site.
He stuck by him? It was a free chance to earn thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars. He stuck by him? Wow. I'd "stick by him" too....
And for the last time, he didn't leave him because he is Jewish. Do you understand that or not??? Here, let me post what I JUST posted again...this time you need to read.
What non-religious people have to realize is that religious people try and help other people out of the same religion. For instance, a scientologiest would almost certianly hire another scientologist as thier agent, if there are any.
…You keep saying that Hamilton left his agent because he was Jewish. It really does not make sense though, and its esp illogical to claim that about a Christian. Its like saying “Milton Bradley is nuts because he is black”. Where yes, he is Black and is definitely nuts; one is still not because of the other. Hamilton left his agent, his agent was Jewish ~ that’s where that train of thought ends… Hamilton does not do things to spite Jewesh people, that is 100% guaranteed, absolutely true without a doubt. No ifs, ands or buts about it…
Hamilton just moved on to his next addiction. Is it really that surprising?
Me, I'd go with an atheist agent. I don't want an agent whose judgment is all effed up with a bunch of fairy tale mumbo jumbo. Don't pray for me, go get me some muhfuggin munny.
Does it really matter if they are "Christian" or not?
Posted by: grimace455 | June 02, 2008 at 12:21 PM
Maybe it has something to do with this comment from Sosnick:
"Josh Hamilton might win the Triple Crown this year, but Jay is better," Sosnick said. "I'll take it to the grave. I'll take my lumps from my [other] players for saying that. He's unequivocally the best player we've ever had in terms of talent and upside and the chance to be successful. He's a once-in-a-lifetime player for me."
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080602&content_id=2819123&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin
"Jay" meaning Jay Bruce.
Posted by: Isaiah | June 02, 2008 at 12:22 PM
What good could possibly come from makng that statement? I'm not saying that was what made Josh leave but it is a curious decision to even say that. You can heap all kinds of praise on the kid without leveling comparisons to your stable of clients.
Posted by: Jared78 | June 02, 2008 at 12:54 PM
Hey,whatever keeps your nose clean Josh.
In related news, Hammy has moved up to 2nd in votes in the AL outfield.
Posted by: BrianTX | June 02, 2008 at 12:56 PM
i just read up some more on this kid since ive never really heard of him before, talk about a haunting past with drugs. i can understand his decision, mike piazza had a very open life to christian faith and media attention, and i can see how both men would want that to play a vital role, that doesnt shock me. as long as the kid can stay healthy, and if having christian agents help that, then amen to that
Posted by: 04Forever | June 02, 2008 at 02:20 PM
As to why Cincy would make those comments, in the latest SI they do a piece on Hamilton where he states that there was a lot of resentment for the attention he got from the Cincy clubhouse, especially Brandon Phillips (surprise surprise). Maybe this is just tem firing back.
Posted by: grimace455 | June 02, 2008 at 02:30 PM
grimace
yea it matters to him, who are we to tell him any different. It's just a weird thing to be discussed. He has every right to switch agents for whatever reason he wants and it doesn't make him wrong in any way. And why is it so bad that someone talks and acts openly about their faith. He's not hurting anyone it's his life. If you don't like it then don't watch him.
Posted by: joemorgan=#1 | June 02, 2008 at 02:56 PM
“i just read up some more on this kid since ive never really heard of him before, talk about a haunting past with drugs.”
…You didn’t know anything about Hamilton? Seriously, how old are you?
Anyway,
“to Moye Sports Associates because he "wanted to be with a Christian stable.”
…Good for him… Too bad more players don’t do similar.
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 02, 2008 at 03:21 PM
detestable...
I find it incredibly arrogant when a pro athlete says stuff like "i was a drug addict, but god came and saved me from it." Sure Josh, God saved you from addiction because you're so much more worthy than every other crack addict in the world.
It's the same kind of stuff when people survive a natural disaster. "Thanks to god I was spared from the storm..." as if God chose them over innocent babies that were killed.
it's disgusting.
Posted by: MrQuestions | June 02, 2008 at 03:21 PM
i guess you right darkstar, his 147 game career is something i really should put under the microscope, seriously, what does it matter if ive never heard of an outfielder from texas of all places? his two year career deserves my undivided attention?
and how does his decision to switch to a christian stable make him arrogant? he is probably the least arrogant person ive seen in awhile, he is acutally refreshing
Posted by: 04Forever | June 02, 2008 at 03:38 PM
“It's the same kind of stuff when people survive a natural disaster. "Thanks to god I was spared from the storm..." as if God chose them over innocent babies that were killed. it's disgusting.”
Posted by: MrQuestions
…Interesting… So you don’t think God would save a person knowing that the person would glorify Him afterward? I mean, isnt that kind of what He has done over the entire span of existence ~ but He would stop now and those players should stop glorifying Him for His help?
See, I was always under the impression that pretty much the entire point of the Bible was to get others to share the word, and glory of our Lord, with others… Guess not though…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 02, 2008 at 03:42 PM
“i guess you right darkstar, his 147 game career is something i really should put under the microscope, seriously, what does it matter if ive never heard of an outfielder from texas of all places? his two year career deserves my undivided attention?”
…It has nothing, and I mean nothing, to do with his ML career with Tex to this point. Hamilton was a household name amongst baseball fans ever since his first year in professional baseball ~ and his problems were only mentioned constantly. I would say if you proclaim yourself to be a big baseball fan, and you don’t know much about Hamilton, then you must be a rather young teen ~ hence my asking your age…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 02, 2008 at 03:47 PM
well boston sports channels must have decided to skip his story because ive never heard about his stories until right now. and i never proclaimed to be anything other then a sox fan ever on this site, youve seen me on here long enough to probably know better then that. and im not a teenager im in my lower 20's if that still proves your case for you
Posted by: 04Forever | June 02, 2008 at 03:53 PM
"Anyway,
“to Moye Sports Associates because he "wanted to be with a Christian stable.”
…Good for him… Too bad more players don’t do similar."
What? Why should religion mean anything? In fact, could it be possible that Hamilton is an anti-Semite?
Posted by: AA | June 02, 2008 at 03:56 PM
"What? Why should religion mean anything? In fact, could it be possible that Hamilton is an anti-Semite?"
wow AA, absolutely wow. you see his christian faith as him being an anti-semite?
Posted by: 04Forever | June 02, 2008 at 04:01 PM
"you see his christian faith as him being an anti-semite?"
Did you ever read the post? I asked if it was possible that Sosnick's being Jewish was a component of the move, as it appears to have been. Further, it makes Hamilton look like a bit of an ingrate, given his history.
Posted by: AA | June 02, 2008 at 04:20 PM
The point I am trying to make is that I don't think being Christian should factor into who negotiates your contract. Almost every agent is going to look out for the better interests of their client regardless of faith.
Posted by: grimace455 | June 02, 2008 at 04:26 PM
"The point I am trying to make is that I don't think being Christian should factor into who negotiates your contract. Almost every agent is going to look out for the better interests of their client regardless of faith."
Absolutely correct. As a plaintiff's lawyer, I don't make money unless I win for my clients. The same is true for agents, who have their income based on how much money they get for their clients. You can bet Sosnick-Crabbe have gotten Josh Hamilton every dime they can, not to mention that they negotiate contracts with a greater sense of what is right than Boras ever would.
Posted by: AA | June 02, 2008 at 04:31 PM
God is dead. Where have you guys been for the last 100 years?
Posted by: jrfukudome | June 02, 2008 at 04:42 PM
"well boston sports channels must have decided to skip his story because ive never heard about his stories until right now"
...I thought you were a Boston fan, and that had a lot to do with my questioning it. Think of it this way, what if Phillip Hughes became a drug addict suspended, and in a longterm struggle to make the MLs after all the hype he got last year. Or maybe the same thing happening to Jay Bruce… Can you imagine the press such a thing would come with? Thats what Hamiltons press was like… Hamilton was to be the best player we have seen drafted since ARod, and no one doubted it. He was “the prospect” that everyone talked about, and he was in Bostons division…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 02, 2008 at 05:01 PM
"In fact, could it be possible that Hamilton is an anti-Semite?"
...From what I have heard, he has been extremely open about his conversion to Christianity. That makes such a thing near impossible....
...As to the "Why should religion mean anything" part ~ I take it you are not religious at all, are you?
“The point I am trying to make is that I don't think being Christian should factor into who negotiates your contract. Almost every agent is going to look out for the better interests of their client regardless of faith.”
…Where this would logically look correct, there is quite a difference. Making a public move to support your beliefs leads to publicity, and inturn spreading of the beliefs. Hamilton is taking actions which will bring positive attention to his faith, Christianity calls this sharing the light. There are many players, and public figures in general, who are deeply rooted in their faith, but most people would never know about it ~ and where that isnt wrong, its not completely helping either. Well, atleast to the extent that it could…
…A move like this of course isnt going to excite everyone who doesn’t share his faith, and many will try to attack him/it with comments like the “God is dead” post above. However, that is not whats important ~ and moves like this can be much more important than you obviously think for people of faith. A openly-Christian agency wouldn’t be able to proclaim themselves that if they did not do things to make a difference somewhere based off their faith. A high-profile person openly making a switch to such a company is bringing attention to his beliefs, and showing that he will support efforts when he can.
…Oh, and to that MrQuestion guy that posted in the wrong thread ~ your beliefs are your beliefs, and not shared by everyone. Your open to your opinion, but it doesn’t make it any more correct than anyone elses on the topic… A person has a right to share their opinion though, and youre not liking it will not change anything...
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 02, 2008 at 05:06 PM
I think it's time to close the comments on this one.
Posted by: jrfukudome | June 02, 2008 at 05:49 PM
“I think it's time to close the comments on this one.”
…because a thread covering nothing more than a player going with a Christian company, has brought about a conversation on the topic of his choosing to go with a Christian company?
If anything, I would think topics like the “Blanton/Furcal/Penny/Burnett/Greinke” thread which turned into a Cubs Fantasy-wish-list argument over Pie for Harden would be more logical to close, this one atleast talks about the topic presented to us…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 02, 2008 at 06:23 PM
"I find it incredibly arrogant when a pro athlete says stuff like "i was a drug addict, but god came and saved me from it." Sure Josh, God saved you from addiction because you're so much more worthy than every other crack addict in the world."
God saved him from his addiction because he asked God into his life. That is what makes him worthy and difference from other crack addicts.
Posted by: Iron Nat | June 02, 2008 at 06:36 PM
Maybe its just me ... but someone who only a few posts ago jumped into the conversation with the comment that "God is dead" should not be saying "its time to close the comments" ... just my opinion lol
Now yeah I understand this is a baseball website ... but if you don't want us to discuss something like this ... then don't add fuel to the fire
I personally commend the kid on doing the best he can to bring attention to what he believes ... He has the ability to spread his faith more than most and I'm glad hes trying to do it ... unfortunatly alot of people can't handle it when this sensitive subject is touched upon and they decide to attack the kid and anyone who tries to agree with him ... it's sad
Posted by: iamsam33 | June 02, 2008 at 06:47 PM
Okay, I can buy the going with a Christian agency in regards to connections to more faith based promotions and endorsements. As for spreading the word, I think his recovery and ability to stay clean would be a stronger testament. For all we know this could be Jon Heyman doing his usual specualtion as to why Hamilton switched. Yes, the agency he switched to his Christian based, but from a glance at their respective websites, it appears the one Hamilton chose has more experience with bigger clients as well.
Posted by: grimace455 | June 02, 2008 at 06:49 PM
@iamsam33,
Fair enough.
Posted by: jrfukudome | June 02, 2008 at 07:22 PM
By that I mean that I shouldn't have thrown fuel on the fire. Regarding the "it's so hard to be a Christian in this world" and "it's so sad," I will respectfully take a pass...
Posted by: jrfukudome | June 02, 2008 at 07:26 PM
"God saved him from his addiction because he asked God into his life."
Mythical men in the sky don't save people from their addiction. Rehab does.
Posted by: AA | June 02, 2008 at 07:29 PM
"Mythical men in the sky don't save people from their addiction. Rehab does."
Having something or someone to believe actually gets you through rehab. Ever wonder why recovering addicts and convicts turn to God and find rehabilitation? Because it gives them purpose and a support system. There is a reason why faith is so deep in these two areas, because it works. I am not big on religion but it definitely helps in this regard.
Posted by: grimace455 | June 02, 2008 at 08:03 PM
@jrfukudome,
I'm glad you got half my point and replied respectfully ... as far as the second half...
I wasn't trying to say "poor me" there ... I was trying to criticize people who get all bent out of shape whenever anyone discusses religious topics
AA is a perfect example ... he apparently views God as a "mythical man in the sky" ... but then why is he posting on this topic? why does he care? thats the attitude I was criticizing ... people who try to act like Christians are so arrogant and self-righteous and yet at the same time are coming back and attacking and putting down Christians for what they believe ... we should have a little more respect (often on both sides) is all I'm saying
whatever ... opinions aren't going to change in an internet discussion and most conversations of this sort are rather pointless ... so lol maybe it would be better to close this to comments before it gets out of control
Posted by: iamsam33 | June 02, 2008 at 08:03 PM
“By that I mean that I shouldn't have thrown fuel on the fire. Regarding the "it's so hard to be a Christian in this world" and "it's so sad," I will respectfully take a pass...”
…Who said “it's so hard to be a Christian in this world”? Infact, the Bible tells a Christian that they are to expect, and rejoice in the face of persecution for their faith. A person of strong belief would have no problem what so ever with people attacking them over said faith.
He was just saying that people sadly do such a thing ~ I believe implying that it’s a rather sad world if all so many people can think to do is attack a person for actually believing in something….
“Mythical men in the sky don't save people from their addiction. Rehab does.”
…Apparently that is what you believe.
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 02, 2008 at 08:12 PM
Can't we just all agree on Stevie Wonder?
Posted by: jrfukudome | June 02, 2008 at 08:24 PM
What a strange statement… I mean, its not like this is some heated argument where everyone is at eachothers throats or anything ~ this is just talking about it really. Does it bother you that much that its even being talked about? This conversation is actually perfectly fine in my mind; its great to talk about such things and the more and more people are able to talk openly and calmly on the topic, the better the world will be. A person closing their mind to possibilities is the worst thing that can happen, its just pointless bigotry…
…Anyway, wanted to say sorry for my comment which addressed things also addressed in other replies ~ Type-key did its little games, and by the time my comment was registered, of course IAmSam explained what he meant…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 02, 2008 at 08:41 PM
God bless you, dark, but you have no ear for humor...
Posted by: jrfukudome | June 02, 2008 at 08:48 PM
The whole "religion" thing just stinks. If Sosnick helped him to get just about to the finishline of a big deal, helped him thru the rough times, etc., they HE should be due compensation and commission. To bail on Sosnick now just sucks.
Oh yeah, I blogged on this earlier: http://itsaboutthemoney.blogspot.com/2008/06/difference-few-years-makes.html
Posted by: jnr98 | June 02, 2008 at 08:55 PM
"Mythical men in the sky don't save people from their addiction. Rehab does."
Your statement does not hold water. It has been proven over the years that twelve steps programs that are spiritually based are far more effective then those that are not. Rehab without the spiritual component has proven inneffective.
Posted by: Iron Nat | June 02, 2008 at 10:18 PM
"Your statement does not hold water. It has been proven over the years that twelve steps programs that are spiritually based are far more effective then those that are not. Rehab without the spiritual component has proven inneffective."
And I am sure you have plenty of neutral evidence of that.
Posted by: AA | June 03, 2008 at 04:30 AM
Maybe some of you will fail to see the comparison, *ahem* Darkstar *ahem*, but I'll give it anyways. Sorry, I have to make at least one shot at him, I mean he is a horse's ass and it is a date on the calendar with a numerical value between 1 and 31. So anyways, on to the less enjoyable part of me writing this!
Have you noticed in the bible, what is the re-occurring theme when boiled down in all commandments and everything else?! Well, here's the short version, "too much of a good thing isn't good." Now we can get to the comparison.
First, my disclaimer:
I am Christian, non-religious, yes you can be both! Just means that I don't believe in following another person's interpretation of the Bible. Ever tried to play the telephone game, go figure why I'm not religious, right?! It means centuries of time, multiple languages, differing dialects, education backgrounds, personal agendas, political influences, social influences, I could go on all day, but I don't want Darkstar to pass out from using his brain. Anyways, in the end I'm smart enough to be able to discern the Bible a lot better than most that do it for a living.
End of disclaimer:
Anecdotal Evidence:
For instance millions of people go to church because and I'll paraphrase as this is in direct correlation with the article and breakdown in Darkstar-ese... "Thou (a believer) shall (action of intent) congregate (get together) worship (customs tied to a religion) in the house (a structure or dwelling, also can be inferred as open air in a specific locale) of the Lord (God) and surround (hang out with) thyself (the same believer) with others (fellow believers) that share (practice equivalently) your faith (the Christian religion)."
Problem here is that Christian leaders don't get paid if you aren't in church and if they were doing God's work shouldn't they keep a normal job and then do services for free without the implied guilt of tithing. Of course not they should get paid too because it takes so long to write their morning sermon, yet anyone not suffering from illiteracy could do it in the time any of us sit down to watch our team play ONE out of 5-7 games a week!
Point being that if they weren't pushing that as a call to come to service, a lot of people would feel free to follow the INTENT of the verse I paraphrased and just invite over other Christian people to their house and spend time with people who share similar beliefs as a building lived in by a believer of God is a house of the Lord, no different than a church and if you have Christian friends over for a BBQ and spend the afternoon at your house you are doing exactly as the paraphrased verse says!
My point hinges on your understanding even if you don’t agree, a) my views, b) the flawed logic of religion, c) how ALL religions are susceptible to corruption, d) most people do wrong in this world while using religion as their alibi. The point is that his blind trust in someone because of their supposed “shared beliefs” is the same reason planes were flown into the twin towers on 9/11.
Sorry, but it’s really not that different, he’s not killing anybody, but it’s not the action I’m talking about that follows it’s the mindset that’s in place. He has given to the belief that no Christian would lie or deceive him the same problem that these young Muslims boys have that grow up to be terrorists. Seriously, if the after life as a martyr was so great why aren’t the leaders the first ones in line to blow themselves up?! Oh yeah because they are trying to fight a Holy War using Hole-y Logic not Holy Logic.
One of three things is going on here with Josh “Hammy” (that was cute, you know him intimately?) Hamilton:
1) He’s an idiot for letting some guy be his agent because he’s “also Christian”, while Hamilton is still smart enough to not be Mormon, so 84 on an IQ test.
2) An addiction for coke is being replaced by religion.
3) It’s a greed thing and he doesn’t want to piss off the Rangers with quashing the contract since he’s killing baseballs and that way one day he can retire with a lifetime supply of coke, which based on his problems, would be about three eight balls before he goes out like Jimi.
I hope I’m wrong, but there’s nothing good about this decision, this doesn’t usher in good thoughts of getting closer to God, it stinks of being greedy and that’s definitely not where God resides. ALSO, MrQuestions brought up the point about Hamilton being arrogant; well there a few things that went through my mind simultaneously, so I’ll throw them out there to be food for thought. One, there aren’t many people that don’t turn to God while in crisis, so just about anyone He saves is technically eligible for saying His praises, so to Darkstar, He doesn’t PICK anyone, first point goes to “MrQuestions.”
Also, to believe that he saves anyone also means that he chooses to kill others and you can’t have it one way, which is why we have Satan, Lucifer, The Devil, El Diablo, Hades, The Dark Angel, etc. Technically if you want to start kicking over those rocks be prepared to discuss the effects of we’ll call him Satan from here on. Technically the religious types believe that natural disasters and evil are tests by Satan to see if truly believe in God and to test our obedience.
Another point, when it talks about praising God and in the context of testifying about your faith, to also give testimonials, but it refers to it as share God’s word. Most take it to mean, an in-your-face, this is how I was saved and you need to be saved too approach. There are those that knock on a stranger’s door and act surprised when they are not well received. Others that will say his name 30 times a day with conviction as if it’s any different than love, which the more you say it, the less you are feeling.
The real intent is for followers to LITERALLY share God’s word, as in turn His words into actions and to not put words of praise or displeasure upon Him. In the end we are to do without placing responsibility, be better without accolades for us or Him. A person will come to another Christian without instruction, it’s always been that people find what they are looking for, even when they don’t know what it is they desire.
So yeah, I think Bible talk is crap, just like kissing a cross, making a cross on your chest, or pointing to God in The Heavens is crap too when you are playing sports. As if God cares that you caught a pass for a TD, got a HR, or struck out a batter! Yes, I do believe in Devine intervention, but it only exists when it benefits the whole, not the one. As in, God didn’t make Hamilton a great baseball player to praise Him in front of the masses. He will however lay the groundwork for a guy like William Wilberforce to against all odds free the slaves as the historical occurrence was retold in “Amazing Grace.”
Sorry, but there is nothing here that should be praised about what Hamilton is doing and I hope for his sake he learns that you can have religion and that doesn’t mean you have to share it with everyone else within a stones throw. God doesn’t care about business and to bring him into your business affairs, in anything but company principles, is as stupid as mixing religion and politics, it’s just bad business, excuse the pun.
Posted by: BaseballGuru | June 03, 2008 at 08:44 AM
Hey AA, no offense, but are you an ambulance chaser?! You said "plaintiff's lawyer" and that sounds like a fancy way of saying you chase after lawsuits to get paid... If so, how's it pay? Just kidding, nice having a person here who knows how to have a structured debate, watch out for Darkstar though, almost all his evidence is inadmissible. Usually it's been tampered with! He is good at dirty though, he's like a molecular scientist. It's like he does statistical gene splicing... He's like the "love child" of a mentally challenged Bob Costas and a drunk Harry Carey!
Posted by: BaseballGuru | June 03, 2008 at 08:51 AM
I assume his faith plays a big part in getting over his drug addiction, so moving to a more "Christian" agency is likely just an attempt to keep himself surrounded by people who won't be a bad influence on him and will help him maintain that path.
You guys are looking too deep into this.
Posted by: FineHamAbounds | June 03, 2008 at 10:33 AM
Hamilton is still smart enough to not be Mormon - posted by baseball guru in his 15,000 word post. Something in particular about Mormons you dislike? or you just figured theres not many of them and there wouldn't be any backlash and you could toss it out in an attempt at wit?
Posted by: touchmymonkey | June 03, 2008 at 10:55 AM
After reading all these comments, I've decided there can be no god(s).
I've also developed a taste for crack.
Posted by: mackythedingo | June 03, 2008 at 11:46 AM
We are talking about someone changing agaents for goodness sake. He can do what h wants however and whenever he wants with agent choices. That's like saying you can't pick a lawyer because you feel more comfortable with him. The reason does not matter. It's his freaking agent it represents him.
Posted by: joemorgan=#1 | June 03, 2008 at 12:20 PM
"'In fact, could it be possible that Hamilton is an anti-Semite?'
...From what I have heard, he has been extremely open about his conversion to Christianity. That makes such a thing near impossible...."
What does his "conversion" have to do with making it impossible for him to be an anti-Semite? Far greater evidence is that he left his Jewish agent, one who works so hard for his clients they get his logo tattooed on their arms and one who definately doesn't fit the Boras mold, for a "Christian stable."
Posted by: AA | June 03, 2008 at 12:46 PM
“God bless you, dark, but you have no ear for humor...”
…That, after your involvement in the conversation, was an attempt humor? Ok… Maybe we should just say I enjoy a different level of humor…
“I assume his faith plays a big part in getting over his drug addiction, so moving to a more "Christian" agency is likely just an attempt to keep himself surrounded by people who won't be a bad influence on him and will help him maintain that path. You guys are looking too deep into this.”
…Like IAmSam said ~ a person doing something to show, or support, his/her faith is generally going to be questioned or attacked solely because of said faith…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 03, 2008 at 01:38 PM
“What does his "conversion" have to do with making it impossible for him to be an anti-Semite? Far greater evidence is that he left his Jewish agent, one who works so hard for his clients they get his logo tattooed on their arms and one who definately doesn't fit the Boras mold, for a "Christian stable."”
…Do you by chance know what a Christian is?
…And then of course we have the 4-thousand word rant from “guru” which I wont bother reading. If there was anything important in it, I figure someone else would have mentioned it ~ but I see his normal pitiful, obsessive, attempt at bashing me so it must all be trash…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 03, 2008 at 01:40 PM
Baseballguru,
How much of an idiot are you? You are saying that you are smart enough to "discern" the bible, when all you are doing is exactly what you said the "religious leaders" are doing. You are twisting what you are reading to get a point across. And why shouldn't Hamilton be "praised"? He beat an addiction of cocaine. Got his life back on track and now is a star in MLB. That's a pretty big turn around, and I think anyone should be praised for half of that.
Also money isn't everything to some people. So for him he knows that any agent will get him the money, so him changing his agent his just his attempt to surround himself with people that he thinks will keep him on track. Why can't you people just be happy for him and not start calling him an anti-semite for making a move that will better himself. Not everything has a dark motive.
Posted by: starting11 | June 03, 2008 at 02:05 PM
"…Like IAmSam said ~ a person doing something to show, or support, his/her faith is generally going to be questioned or attacked solely because of said faith…"
I don't even think it's that deep. I'm not religious at all, but I don't care what someone else wants to believe. If turning to Christianity helps him beat an addiction and turn out a spectacular baseball career, more power to him. And if that's his motivation, I'd like to see him motivated from every possible angle--including his agent. He just wants to work with like-minded people.
Posted by: FineHamAbounds | June 03, 2008 at 03:17 PM
“He just wants to work with like-minded people.”
…Yeah, the post was just saying that… It was stating that anything showing or supporting faith is oftentimes attacked by others ~ as has happened here…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 03, 2008 at 04:24 PM
And Ok, fine ~ I broke down and read a bit of the post since it seems it might be rather funny (I mean, multiple others are calling you out on it so…)
Couple things:
1 ~ man, youre obsession with me is even worse than I thought… What is it, about every 3rd sentence you have to mention my name?
2 ~ you apparently have read atleast portions of the Bible, but dont seem to understand it completely. Case in point ~ in one of your rants you say God kills people (since he saves others). The Bible tells people that dying is not a bad thing; that life is not really about this planet. How does that equate? The best example of this misunderstanding (or twisting) is visible in the portion regarding Hamilton though ~ “God didn’t make Hamilton a great baseball player to praise Him in front of the masses.” …So what exactly do you consider all the Disciples and Prophets to be? One person set with a mission of spreading (and of course many times, but not necessarily, simultaneously living by) the word, correct?
But God wouldn’t do something which you feel only betters one person, just so he can praise Him to others, right? The Bible speaks of gifts, and how people are to utilize those gifts to help spread the word ~ wouldn’t being able to play baseball at an extreme level allowing for mass public recognition be considered a gift which could be utilized to reach others? Shoot, even if his mission was to help a handful of others struggling with drug addiction, couldn’t that alone be worth it? A couple of that handful go on to do the same, some of those do the same, and who knows where it ends… I’ve never heard a single believer proclaim that God would ignore individuals ~ and it seems an illogical stance considering that the masses are certainly affected by the actions of individuals on a near daily basis…
“it is a date on the calendar with a numerical value between 1 and 31” …That brings us to:
3 ~ …That date on the calendar is the day you go away. Here is the post again:
“I BET THE MARINERS STILL ROLL OFF 95-100 WINS THIS SEASON, EVEN WITH THEM 8 GAMES UNDER .500 RIGHT NOW! SO TALK CRAP, BUT KISS MY *SS THIS FALL WHEN THEY'RE IN THE PLAYOFFS! I'LL BET DARKSTAR THEY STILL WIN 95 GAMES AND IF THEY DO, HE'S GOTTA STOP COMING TO THIS SITE, IF THEY DON'T, I'LL STOP COMING HERE!!! NEED YOUR MOMMY TO LET YOU HAVE YOUR BALLS BACK SO YOU CAN MAN UP, OR CAN YOU IOU THE TESTOSTERONE AS USUAL?!?!”
…So yeah, its closer to the 31 Days ~ 31 more M’s loses and no more “guru”…
…But it is interesting the instant “you live in your moms basement” argument you pull out when someone doesn’t believe whatever hard-to-swallow theory you tell them to believe is coming from a man who considers himself a strong Christian…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 03, 2008 at 04:27 PM
I don't always agree with you Dark - in fact I don't hink we have ever debated anything, just the occasional swapping of opinions in a somewhat civil manner ( well within reason anyways - nothing wrong with obvious humorous jabs ). But I am now right next to you counting the days to the banishment of the guru. Best part is even if he gets a new screen name - he can't do the 23 paragraph post without being called out and thats got to kill him. In keeping with the religious theme of this thread - this is now the 2nd time in a week I have sided with Dark ( the other being against Aduncaroo a fellow cub fan) - that has to be a sign of the apocolypse.
Posted by: touchmymonkey | June 03, 2008 at 05:23 PM
wow ... ok um ... like I previously stated ... conversations of this nature, especially on a baseball website, are rather pointless ... these discussions tend to get out of control and niether side is really listened to ... sorry if I'm just piling on but, like those who posted before me, I still can't help making a couple points...
first of all ... guru over here apparently believes he has interpretted the Bible clearly on his own and this gives him the authority to run down other peoples beliefs ... I'm not even gonna start to discuss his arguments as its highly unlikely he's about to change his stance ... but I will say I certainly disagree with the way he is going about things on this board ... and his attitude alone shows me he missed a few things when "discerning" what the Bible says ... at least try to give people a little respect, whether you think they deserve it or not ... but, of course, you have probably already stopped reading my post and have moved on to typing a reply in which you try to run me down and ridicule me for even thinking of criticizing you ... I can't do anything about that...
secondly, I think this conversation has gone way overboard ... it's impossible for us to know Hamilton's true motives here ... only he and God knows ... but I tried to commend him because I would like to think he is trying to draw attention to his faith and because I think he simply wants to work with people who agree with and will uphold his values during his business negotiations ... I know I would ... and even if it is "bad business" at least he's trying to do his business they way he believes is right ... he's trying to stand for something ... that's what I would like to think anyways...
Sorry if I pushed this further ... it would be nice if conversations like this could be carried on with some respect ... but this is the world we live in...
Posted by: iamsam33 | June 03, 2008 at 05:25 PM
iamsam - well put and consider me in agreement ( ok that doesn't really carry much weight but I thought I would toss it in there ).
Posted by: touchmymonkey | June 03, 2008 at 06:36 PM
"'He just wants to work with like-minded people.'
…Yeah, the post was just saying that… It was stating that anything showing or supporting faith is oftentimes attacked by others ~ as has happened here…"
"Like-minded people" still sounds like a very thinly veiled way of saying religious bias.
Posted by: AA | June 03, 2008 at 09:12 PM
So he would rather work with people he knows uphold the same beliefs as he does ... calling that "Religious bias" sound like a very thinly veiled attempt to portray that in a negative light
Posted by: iamsam33 | June 03, 2008 at 09:44 PM
“"Like-minded people" still sounds like a very thinly veiled way of saying religious bias.”
…I have to agree with IAmSam. I have a hard time really understanding how that can be perceived negative, no matter how I look at it. I mean, think of it this way ~ is a Democrat wrong for voting Democrat? Or is he trying to pull something underhanded if he works on a Democratic campaign? Or how about a vegan ~ would they be considered out of line if they maybe went to work for a Vet? Would there be some type of bias shown if they, say, left a job at Wall-Mart to start said job?
Think of it this way ~ couldn’t calling such a simple action out as if its somehow underhanded be considered by some as a form of bigotry itself?
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 03, 2008 at 11:36 PM
“But I am now right next to you counting the days to the banishment of the guru.”
…I do have to warn you, its getting crowded…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 03, 2008 at 11:38 PM
"first of all ... guru over here apparently believes he has interpretted the Bible clearly on his own and this gives him the authority to run down other peoples beliefs"
Wow, lol. This line right here sums up Guru in a nutshell. Even when it comes to the bible, he has the most knowledge and we are all lucky to be graced with his explanations on the Bible, the Mariners, and god knows what else.
Posted by: nrmax88 | June 04, 2008 at 12:42 AM
"Like-minded people" means "people less likely to expose him to his addiction, and therefore the odds he'll relapse are that much smaller." He's just trying to minimize his exposure to bad influences, knowing he may not be able to control himself if he's put into that situation again. It's religion that keeps the drugs away in his case, but it could be exercise, skydiving, or posting 1300-word entries on internet trade rumor blogs...
Posted by: FineHamAbounds | June 04, 2008 at 09:45 AM
…since the thread is winding down anyway…
“Wow, lol. This line right here sums up Guru in a nutshell.”
I really don’t know what to make of him. Sometimes I feel he is just trying to troll, that he cant possibly believe half the things he says. Sometimes I think he must be rather young with quite low self-esteem ~ apparently feeling the need to act bigger than he actually is. He seems to have a rather difficult time staying on topic, and doesn’t necessarily back up what he says as much as just keep repeating it ~ I’ve seen posts that pretty much start off with a sentence, seemingly go into a description of Roadrunner cartoons, get back on topic solely to repeat the first sentence and then end in “youre ignorant”. And his obvious, unhealthy, obsession with me, where I’m only one of countless posters who has had a problem with him… But on the other hand, he does speak fairly well, and is quick to point out errors in others grammar and such…
Its all like a giant contradiction really. If he was truly intelligent, and with a higher education, then you would think he would realize that his tendencies show quite the opposite. You would also have to think he would be able to grasp things outside of his preset mindstate if he was really intelligent ~ but he completely refuses, and adamantly argues, against anything he doesn’t want to believe… If he wasn’t with a higher education, then he must spend a ton of time trying to look up things just for the rather meaningless opportunity to put others down ~ but that seems unlikely even for him. Its why I lean towards young quite often, as if he is just learning these things now ~ it would most likely be fresh in his mind and leading him to be more inclined to comment on it…
…Ahh, whatever ~ 30 more loses and none of it will matter anymore anyway… :)
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 04, 2008 at 03:04 PM
Isnt it Ironic that Gurus m's were Swept by the Angel!!
And God Bless J-Ham, he did not take god as many people do with a miracle is put on there laps and then they dont pay attention, Hamilton took this miracle god gave him and he put himself with people he knows and we be with him and with christ,
Everyone who has said anything in here against hamilton why?
Posted by: WilllGoAngels27 | June 05, 2008 at 03:30 AM
Guys, Guys, Guys. As the "source" (it was I who spoke with Sosnick), the issue is not so much about religion, but rather the fact that Sosnick (and his whole Firm) has been supporting Hamilton since being drafted in 1999. Sosnick was with him thru the lowest, darkest days. He was negotiating a long term contract for Hamilton, with his permission. And as they were about to sign the deal, Hamilton had his "dream" and summarily dumped Sosnick. The reason for the dumping is immaterial to me, though it's clearly the focus. Hamilton's reason could have been race (though not literally, here) or some other rationale, but it doesn't detract from the fact that he is dumping his long-time agent as he's about to sign a monster contract... that the agent helped negotiate and therefore "earned" as commission.
Agents can be as despicable as you can imagine but Sosnick's not "quite" cut from the same cloth, though maybe he is. But the main point is that he served his client dutifully for years and deserves the commissions on the contract.
Tim, thanks for the link, buddy.
Posted by: jnr98 | June 13, 2008 at 09:32 AM
This conversation is pathetic.
Posted by: ArodSucksAtLife | June 13, 2008 at 10:52 AM
This thread is one of a kind. I think that most of us here, while we have our opinions and faiths, don't really know what to do with this thread. We are so used to having discussions about baseball, sometimes heated (me and Dark), that a topic like this throws us a little...
About Hamilton,
What non-religious people have to realize is that religious people try and help other people out of the same religion. For instance, a scientologiest would almost certianly hire another scientologist as thier agent, if there are any. Probably the same with a Mormon (who are not any less smart as guru stated, than anybody else) I'm surprised more people didn't call him out for that....anyway...
This isn't really even a surprise, other than the fact that Hamilton really seems to be pursuing his faith, which I applaud him for.
I respect anyone that really pursues their faith, even if it isn't the same as my own. Believe me, if everything in this world is all we have to live for, I frankly don't see the point.
Posted by: Aduncaroo | June 13, 2008 at 12:34 PM
"I have a hard time really understanding how that can be perceived negative, no matter how I look at it."
Probably because you buy into the same stuff Hamilton does. The real negative, as mentioned above, is that this ingrate left an agent who stood by him through the deepest doldrums of addiction and has been negotiating a contract that will set him for life. And why? Because his agent is Jewish .
Posted by: AA | June 13, 2008 at 04:42 PM
"The real negative, as mentioned above, is that this ingrate left an agent who stood by him through the deepest doldrums of addiction and has been negotiating a contract that will set him for life. And why? Because his agent is Jewish ."
Thats one of the most ignorant statements ever on this site.
He stuck by him? It was a free chance to earn thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars. He stuck by him? Wow. I'd "stick by him" too....
And for the last time, he didn't leave him because he is Jewish. Do you understand that or not??? Here, let me post what I JUST posted again...this time you need to read.
What non-religious people have to realize is that religious people try and help other people out of the same religion. For instance, a scientologiest would almost certianly hire another scientologist as thier agent, if there are any.
Posted by: Aduncaroo | June 13, 2008 at 04:54 PM
“And why? Because his agent is Jewish .”
…You keep saying that Hamilton left his agent because he was Jewish. It really does not make sense though, and its esp illogical to claim that about a Christian. Its like saying “Milton Bradley is nuts because he is black”. Where yes, he is Black and is definitely nuts; one is still not because of the other. Hamilton left his agent, his agent was Jewish ~ that’s where that train of thought ends… Hamilton does not do things to spite Jewesh people, that is 100% guaranteed, absolutely true without a doubt. No ifs, ands or buts about it…
Posted by: darkstar1661 | June 13, 2008 at 06:48 PM
Hamilton just moved on to his next addiction. Is it really that surprising?
Me, I'd go with an atheist agent. I don't want an agent whose judgment is all effed up with a bunch of fairy tale mumbo jumbo. Don't pray for me, go get me some muhfuggin munny.
Posted by: The Globalizer | June 13, 2008 at 07:31 PM