Jarrod Washburn Rumors: Monday

Kennedy for Salty!

seems fair. Tex needs pitching, Yanks need a catcher. Two highly touted prospects, each underperforming so far. Yanks have surplus of pitchers, Tex has surplus of catchers. seems fair and a good match to me. Tim?

"The Yankees still don't want to send more than a middling prospect for Washburn. Meanwhile, the Ms hope Hank Steinbrenner will demand Brian Cashman acquire the pitcher, even if it means trading Melky Cabrera or Brett Gardner."

LOL!

If this is true (sounds like a reporter with words that weren't actually spoken), the Mariners are as stupid as I thought.

Hank Steinbrenner does not control the Yankees, George Steinbrenner style.

Hank and Hal have joint control. Neither can make a Yankees decision without the other.

Despite popular belief, the Yankees have as of yet not made a single 'Hank said to' stupid decision. Cashman appears to be in complete control of GM duties, excepting ownership approval of payroll considerations.

No, the Yankees don't need a catcher. They got a guy named Jose Molina who throws out 45% of runners. I'm really pissed off at the Mariners. They must think the Yankees are in complete need for Jarrod and are stupid enough to give them Melky and Gardner. They are being much too greedy. I dont think they should even give one of them away. This should be a salary dump at most but the Ms think he's and above average hitter.

To be fair, after getting beat around like a drum last night thanks to Sidney Ponson, I think there is some need for a Washburn. Alhough I think we are better off just calling up Kennedy for a couple starts and if he doesn't work out, Hughes should be ready in a couple weeks too.

Yankee fans are so spoiled. Always wanting something for nothing. Washburn has been excellent lately. The Mariners are wealthy, too. Why should they just give Washburn to the Yankees?

On behalf of the Rangers, if Cashman offered Kennedy for Salty I will see to it that he's on the next flight to NYC.

Absolutely, I'll take my chances with Kennedy when we have no need for 2 of our 4 major league ready catchers.

yankfan1, quick question... Why are you so pissed with the Mariners for not just bending over and taking it in the ass on this trade, IF Washburn is just a ssalary dump player, than you are saying he's not that good, IF he's not that good, why do you even care?! Wait, I got it!! It's because you're a hypocrite and unknowingly you are only support the Mariners request that much more by your outward disapproval of their stance on not getting Bavasied! If Washburn was that average or unworthy of one of those guys, you would be saying forget him, let's get someone else, NOT "I'm so pissed with the Mariners." You're a tool and clearly you can't grasp the combination of market value contract, above average competitor w/ new pitch as well as revamped mechanics via his h.s. pitching coach exactly 11 starts ago (2.81 ERA since the conversation), and TWO picks (Type B status guaranteed, possibly even Type A with the run support and wins he'll have between now and then) in the 2010 draft!! How is this not worth both of them?! Fine, I'll bend give us Brett Gardner and Wilkins De La Rosa and we'll throw in $4MM ($1MM for 2008; 3MM for next season). Done, Done, Done.

The Yankees are unlikely to deal for a catcher, unless that catcher is Bengie Molina.

Doumit would be awesome, but he's not available (except for a package including Hughes, no doubt). Jose Molina's fine.

Posada will not play this season; they're delaying the surgery until after the trade deadline.

As for Washburn - he's an improvement over Ponson/Rasner, but he's -nothing special-. If the Mariners want to hold onto him? Fine with me. Apparently, they want to ditch his contract, or there'd be no trade talks with the Yankees.

A little OT but I'd like to add that I'm very happy with Jose Molina this year. After years of crap backups like Stinnett, Flaherty, Nieves, and Fasano, Molina is doing a fine job.

I say give Kennedy a shot before giving up any real talent for Washburn. Besides, when is Hughes expected back?

Doumit wouldn't be all that expensive, probably cost the Yankees, Jesus Montero and Lance Pendleton, but who cares if they have Posada's replacement under team control for the next three years and could easily get him to sign a long-term deal... Just hope that nobody tries to steal 2nd with Mussina or Pettitte on the mound because it might end badly for them!

"Doumit wouldn't be all that expensive, probably cost the Yankees, Jesus Montero and Lance Pendleton, but who cares if they have Posada's replacement under team control for the next three years and could easily get him to sign a long-term deal... Just hope that nobody tries to steal 2nd with Mussina or Pettitte on the mound because it might end badly for them!"

No thank you.

Montero is a -top- prospect.

He has mucho power. Scouts rate his power at the Pujols/Miguel Cabrera/Vladimir Guerrerro level.

He's at A ball so he can continue to develop as a catcher (his defense is lacking). He'd be in AA already if he were a 1B.

'Unfortunately', at 19 years old, he's already almost as big as Joe Mauer (largest catcher in MLB today). Prospects of him staying at C aren't very good.

NO way Montero goes anywhere, as things stand today.

SONNY, I've already thought about this and everybody said I was crazy... I was even willing to propose the Mariners take Igawa in return and eat his contract to offset Johjima, so they'd only be risking 4MM a year on his extension, while getting the Japanese equivalent of Johnny Bench... He's considered very much the same type of player... In 110 games during his last season in Japan he hit .330, 24, 110, hardly an average guy and you're right he struggled, but everyone forgets how much the 1st month of the season hurts his numbers now, also Johjima was a .289 career hitter before this season and has been a very productive offensive catcher. I'd say 4MM a year is worth the risk, if they can give Posada 15MM/yr. at 35-38 years old. Molina would still be the backup, but Posada will never be anything but a DH/1B occasional spot starter behind the plate... They need a long-term solution and Joh could be it... I'd be happy keeping him, but we've begun the Clement era and there's no turning back now!

V

Are you an executive in the Yankees front office? Every single post of yours is a definitive statement about the Yankees' plan of action. I think it would be interesting if you'd let us know how you have such insight into baseball operations.

Thanks

"Doumit wouldn't be all that expensive, probably cost the Yankees, Jesus Montero and Lance Pendleton, but who cares if they have Posada's replacement under team control for the next three years and could easily get him to sign a long-term deal..."

Seriously, do you people even think before you post? Why would the Pirates trade Doumit, who is their catcher of the future, under team control for three years and is a switch-hitter with more power from the left side of the plate which plays perfectly at PNC Park, to the Yankees for prospects that are years away and no sure bet anyway?

Oh yeah, that's because the Yankees are the center of the universe and teams should automatically trade their best players to them so that the Yankees can make the playoffs every year.

Morons.

"maybe not by 11:59pm est on July 31st,"

3:59pm est on July 31st.

You think Washburn wouldn't win 16-17 games as a Yankee next season?! Considering their offense and the fact that he averages 20-24 QS a season, hmmm, let me think about this... How about the fact that Washburn ALSO doesn't get injured, he's never pitched less than 25 starts in a season, which is a big part of evaluating pitchers in the arbitration compensation process...

By the way, he only has to be top 40% to get a 1st round sandwich pick and a 2nd round pick, which is still higher than anybody in the Yankees organization was taken, just to keep in mind...

The starters in this years FA class who would fall below Washburn if arbitration was this season, not factoring how much better the Yankees would build his win-loss record.: Armas Jr., Benson, Byrd, Clement, Dempster (was a reliever w/ a bad ERA in '07, so he loses on IP/doesn't make enough up with his current ERA), Fogg, Garland, Glavine, Hampton, Hendrickson, Li. Hernandez, Or. Hernandez, Jennings, Lieber, Loaiza, Looper, Pe. Martinez, Mulder, Mussina, Pavano, Penny, Od. Perez, Rogers, Schilling, Sheets, Smoltz, Tomko, Wakefield, Wells, Wolf... Not on the list but who help promote Washburn into ATLEAST the top 40% and a Type B status are Schmidt, Harden, Zito, Jo. Sanchez, Lowry, Owings, Francis, De La Rosa, G. Reynolds, Redman, Rusch, Morales, Ra. Johnson, Ch. Young, etc. Most players fail to be competitive year-after-year, some have injures, some just aren't that good... You all are thinking of top 20-40 percent of starters to be based on starting rotations, but there are a lot of could be and never was play that elevate his status...

(i.e. Gardner, Cabrera, Jackson, etc.)

Also, did people see Geoff Baker's analysis?!? Yeah, they get it, the Mariners aren't desperate, even though I've been saying August trade, etc.

Baseball Guru worte:

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Teams long for the problem of having too many good starting pitchers. Bedard isn't even in the rotation, as he's proving to be more fragile than Carl Pavano. This is all about ditching Washburn's contract because if he were good enough to deserve his contract, the Mariners wouldn't be looking to trade him. The Mariners either get salary relief, eat some of his contract to get prospects or they can keep him. It's that simple.

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with extensions like Johjima and trades for Bedard, they won't be competing any time soon.

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He never fit into their plans, with the exception of 1 year, he's been nothing short of mediocre at best.

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good luck finding anyone else to take his salary and offer anything substantial in terms of prospects; it's not going to happen.

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it has EVERYTHING to do with their perceived desire to dump his salary. He's mediocre and with his salary the M's will not get anything decent back for him.

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he'll never go for a top prospect. His production and salary assures this will never happen.

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you can have Brien Taylor, he was a first round draft pick.

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Cy Young candidate? That's laughable. He's not even pitching like a Neil Young candidate.

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hilarious stuff. If he's a difference maker, how come ZERO other teams are trying to trade for him?

First and foremost, if the Ms move Washburn, it wont be a baseball decision, it will be a business move.

As for Geoff Baker's analysis, he suggests that the Ms have the upper hand because they can opt to hold him till post deadline and then let him be claimed, giving them no player compensation and therefore making it entirely a salary dump. How is this beneficial to Seattle other than to spite NY? I know Id rather have a midlevel prospect than nothing.

The fact that an analyst would suggest that the Mariners would let him go in waivers proves how little Washburn is worth.

Sabathia is prayer, in reality he'll sign with a NL team or a west coast team, so NY is about as far away from what he wants as could be... He likes hitting hense the NL, he likes the west coast, I'd say a better bet would be he ends up a LA Dodgers ace, with the departure of Lowe after the season and the freed up 12-13MM plus Kent's contract coming off the books when he retires after this year.

Sometimes I do wonder how Guru has this much time to talk baseball. No offense, man.

Sorry, but you Yanks don't understand Seattle's needs. I'm not using this to go out and say M's are #1! (ask me to on another day :-D), I'm just saying the Mariners are having some bad, bad managerial problems right now.

The main reason the Ms are pressing for a prospect of worth for Washburn AND NYY's salary dinner is not solely based on Washburn's recent performances. If the interim-GM, who is in candidacy for the permanent job, could pull off a prospect + salary dump from the NEW YORK YANKEES it would totally negate the fact Seattle is losing a ray of light in the starting rotation. Speaking of which, the M's SR is 3-4/5 injured and they'd be giving up a consistent starter that fans really enjoy here. Washburn was THE GUY the media talked to during the worst of the slump this year. What can I say, he's a really good guy on and off the field. Seattle digs that.

Sadly, a player like that in a season like this is expendable. Given the past history of Mariners vs. Yankees, it'd be something really great for Lee P. (interim GM) to add to his resume for next year's Seattle Mariners' permanent GM job.

Not that its 100% the GM's decision on Washburn, the guy sure could stall talks enough to make the Yanks look in the direction of KCMO/KCK.

Salty to anybody for pitching prospects sounds fine to me. The Rangers DEFINITELY have plenty of options at catcher, and if they can nab a highly touted pitcher, they should take him. The Rangers may want to add Jackson to the deal though, just so a straight comparison can't be made between the 2 players. Plus, Jackson is a DFW native, and the Rangers love hometown boys.

This doesn't remind me of the McCarthy deal at all. Danks was the Rangers #1 pitching prospect (which we covet so much), left-handed, and most of all never got a shot at the bigs with the Rangers. We traded him for a right hander who didnt project as high as Danks. You never trade a "good at the time" righty for a "could be great" lefty. You just don't do it. Th Rangers should have done what the ChiSox did and stuck him out there for a year and let him develop, and reaped the benefits this year.

At least if we trade Salty, we have viable options to plug into catcher immediately and get strong production.

PS - Oh, and I forgot the one where he says that "Wang is a soft tosser...tops out at 90".

Me an everyone else on this board has seen him hit 96 at least 14 DOZEN times. His freakin SLIDER is 88 MPH you idiot.

As for Salty...he couldn't throw out my grandma trying to steal...and she passed away 25 years ago. No thanx!

The Yankees have Cervelli, Montero and Romine in the system that are all studs...although Montero might outgrow the position.

What the Yankees need is a rental like Barajas or Olivo for a mid-level prospect. Make one of the guys that were supposed to go to PITT.

The reason why Washboard IS a salary dump...is because with the M's being almost 30 games UNDER .500...there is no need to pay a guy 10 mil per year to go 5-9 with a 4.50 ERA. (and those numbers are AFTER a great last few games) You can get Rasner to put up the same numbers for $500k!

BUSTER OLNEY WRITES:

"The Yankees' offer is a gift from the baseball gods for the Mariners"

"And let's face it: Washburn will do nothing to impact the Mariners' future, in 2008 or 2009, other than to drain their bank account. He's not going to propel them into contention, and when next year is over and his contract runs out, Seattle will not offer him arbitration and it won't get draft-pick compensation"

"The window of opportunity for a Washburn deal has opened for the Mariners, and there's no telling how long it will remain. They'd be crazy not to take it, as they begin the work of repairing their badly damaged franchise".

i dont necessarily mean salty straight for kennedy+jackson, i mean that they won't deal him straight up for a prospect. the rangers can throw in a player or 2 also, thats fine with me.

116 - If the Yankees did get Washburn for a salary dump...which is the ONLY way it's happening (see my post and then the one where I quote Buster Olney) he won't even be on the mound in the playoffs, let alone "carry us thru them". By the playoffs, we will have Joba, Andy, Moose and WANG to pitch...ALL of which are a mile better than Washboard...who is 1-3 with a 4.91 era in the playoffs for his career.

Are you related to GURU by any chance?? LOL!!!

JJY, I'll respectfully reject your rebuttal. The NYY are the only team who'd watch a guy pitch on negotiations day and only offer to pay his salary. Thats like a man with 3-5 cars asking a guy to buy his only working car off him. That's just plain dumb.

Factually incorrect statements*** (i wish there was an edit button.)

116 - Your....interesting analogy aside....it's not just MY opinion. If you read Buster Olney...Peter Gammons....SI...or pretty much ANY article you can find...they ALL say the SAME thing. Only people who don't get this are the few M's fans who are frustrated with their teams season thus far. Again, why pay a guy 10 mil per year to go 5-9 with a 4.50 era...on a team that's 30 games under .500 and going nowhere?? The Yanks are the only team even willing to consider that in the first place, so why look a gift horse in the mouth.

ps - And I like how you're be willing to toss in another horrific contract (Vidro making 8 mill to hit .220 with busted knees) if we give you a prospect we said we wouldn't give you for JUST Washburn!! LOL!! You just don't get how this works, do you.

You guys all forget that Guru is the guy who said that both Richie Sexson and Adrian Beltre will be first ballot Hall Of Famers.

116 - NONE of those guys have trade value higher than Spam. Yankees gave Sexson a try-out because he was FREE. If he happens to become the Sexson of old after an environment change, cool. If not, he'll be released shortly. They didn't TRADE for the guy or pick-up his salary (like you're suggesting with Vidro)...HUGE difference.

*Vidro only hits OK, my bad.

BUSTER OLNEY does not understand the Mariner's situation. He is looking at us as if we were Pittsburgh or Kansas City where the money would be a big deal. He is right that Washburn wont bring the Mariners back into contention, but dumping him will not help us in any way either. So the only team that stands to gain anything from this is the Yankees. Why would the Mariners give the Yankees Washburn just to help them out?

116 - Yep Richie. I remember reading his posts during the offseason and laughing so hard I almost cried. He was talking about how the M's were going to challenge the Angels for the West and a whole bunch of other Guru type comments.

Ok guru you have now made up stas about washburn's quality starts, called wang a soft tosser, over rated your own minor league system in every reasonable way, claimed washburn was as good as wang, stated the kenji johjima is the japanese johnny bench, said richie sexson and beltre are hof players, oh and have not recognized the diffence between win shares and basic stats, and basically alienated every poster on this site. You are either the best comedian on the planet or the worst statistician in the history of baseball. Quick question with all the hof players you had like
c johhny bench
1b Albert pujolsx2
2b top three or for in the league
3b Makes arod his bitch
sp- chien ming wang clone or improved clone

how did you not domnate all season? Was it just Chemistry? Could it really be because your players are just bad?

"Why would the Mariners give the Yankees Washburn just to help them out?"

Because that $10MM can be better utilized. Hypothetically, take Ben Sheets next year. If you can dump Washburn's salary then add $5MM or so to it for the first year of Sheets, isn't that worth it?

Hey jjyankeesfan2 if you were such a yankee fan you of all people would know the Yanks are'nt giving up mid to high level prospects for a "RENTAL" thats how NY had the worst Farm System in the Majors a few years back by giving up the Farm for Rentals Cashman is doing the right thing by loading the farm back up by picking up very good prospects for The Unit and Sheffield etc,and for you other YO-YO'S out there talking about Salty or Doumit for Kennedy or Hughes do you actually think the Yanks are gonna trade one of those guys for a Catcher when Cashman would'nt deal 1 of them for the Best pitcher in the game (Santana).and as for Washburn Cashman was quoted on the YES Network on Mike and the Mad Dog a few hrs ago by saying they are still talking with M's about him but for a low prospect and cash he also said that Hughes & Pavano have rehab starts tonight and tommorow if all goes well the talks may halt plus the Yankees pitching staff is the best in baseball since June 10th NY is 28-11 with a 2.81 ERA,Oh yea i almost forgot thats right about the time Molina took over as Catcher so what they really need is a CF some of these posts are really funny

JJyanks: you know I'm just talking out my hole about Vidro and Batista, right? Maybe Vidro, but I don't think any team would certainly want Batista.

When is typekey going to convey sarcasm??? Haha.

BadVlad: At least Guru keeps us busy between Tim's postings.

"Good Free agents are not going to want to go to a team like Seattle that is probably 5 years away from contention."

I don't know if that's true. I would imagine there are plenty that see the West as open and, even if that's not the case, would just like to be in Seattle. Even in contention, living in Milwaukee or Minnesota would probably suck.

SONNY - WTF are you talking about dude?? When did I chat about trading for a "rental"?? I said I would like if the Yankees went after Peavy. He is NOT a rental...he IS under contract at least next year, is young and one of the top pitchers in the game. Before you make fun, try to READ and get a clue.

All 3 of the Molina brothers are incredibly tallented. Jose may not be pretty with a bat but what he does behind the plate saves a ton of runs.

As for Salty...he couldn't throw out my grandma trying to steal...and she passed away 25 years ago. No thanx!

The Yankees have Cervelli, Montero and Romine in the system that are all studs...although Montero might outgrow the position.

What the Yankees need is a rental like Barajas or Olivo for a mid-level prospect. Make one of the guys that were supposed to go to PITT.

Posted by: jjyankeesfan2 | July 28, 2008 at 03:28 PM

I'll accept your apology

The problem is Melky is oddly necessary for this season because of his glove in CF. Its not elite by any means, but it is above average and there's a ton of room out there in NY. Gardner is an ok replacement in theory but he hasn't proven he can hit major league pitching at even a replacement level and you can't risk being stuck without a Plan B if he can't. So, while Melky is blah, he's a guy you trade in the offseason, not a guy you move once you've committed to him for the current year.

Padzilla has had issues ranging from DUI's to Bean Ball wars to just attitude issues.

That is why he will likely stay put. Teams will try to low ball for him b.c. of his issues and he has more value to the Rangers than to a trading team.

But, my point was simply that his contract is a bargain and he is not a #5. Padz is a very solid pitcher.

In fact, if he hadn't had so many issues in his past, he would be a at the forefront of the trade market right now.

BadVlad, I said Richie was very much on course to be a HOF and that Beltre will be a first ballot HOF, by the way, go look at Brooks Robinson's stats, Beltre is ahead in almost every category at the same point of their career and beats him in many like almost 4 times the steals already, nearly passing him in HR, yet Robinson played for 10 more years than Beltre has already... Go look you pompus prick and be proven wrong... IDENTICAL, say it with me IDENTICAL

That was supposed to say 24 QS & NQS per season... TypeKey is to blame... Don't like the Near Quality Starts idea, well screw it, I don't care... It's the only way to get good pitchers where they should be in terms of hierarchy. The fact that 5 IP and 0 ER is considered less favorable than 6IP and 3 ER is crap. Ask any tame in baseball from the batboy up to the owner what they'd rather have and they'd tell you 5 & 0 over 6 & 3, every time... QS is meant to determine how many times a pitcher leaves his team with a chance to win the ballgame, so the base has to be qualifying for the win or 5 IP... If a player goes 10 IP and gives up 4 ER like Halladay did last year, he should be lumped in with someone going 6 IP and giving up 3 ER as those 4 extra IP and only 1 ER more improve the positivity of the start, not detract from it... Think that it's crap, well I've heard people reference a near quality start and I just defined it... 50 years ago people didn't even know what sabermetrics was, but now it's the standard argument on here... If it makes sense, shut up and deal with it... Johan would be a joke without those NQS, which clearly isn't accurate and you'll see many other pitchers benefit from it to and it shows a MORE ACCURATE landscape, NOT PERFECT, but BETTER!!