Offseason Outlook: New York Mets

There is no way Parnell will be a starter for Mets...I'm sure Mets will go hard after a SP like Lowe, Burnett, Dempster, perhaps even CC. I personally think they should resign Perez and spend the rest on Cruz and Fuentes, then getting rid of Heilman and Sanchez at least, perhaps even Feliciano. I think they might try to trade for BJ Ryan/Keving Gregg type of arm, with Murphy/Evans/Carp being trade bait. Also I definitely expect them making a HUGE effort to move Castillo, I think Minaya really wants to sign Hudson who could even take a bit of discount to go there

I would like the Mets to go after Lowe and Wolf. Maybe trade Delgado for BJ Ryan and Lyle Overbay and maybe a nother prospect. Then the Mets could sign Brandon Lyons and if Marte becomes a Free-agent go after him.
How about a trade for Matt Holliday? Say F-Mart,Carp,Heilman and a prospect. If Murphy doesn't work out at second, sign Hudson. Then if we could I would trade Beltran,Overbay and Church to the Cubs, for Marmol,Pie,Soriano,Lee,Samardzija & Colvin

1.Reyes-SS
2.Soriano-2B
3.Lee-1B
4.Holliday-RF
5.Wright-3B
6.Burrell-LF
7.Schnieder-C
8.Pie-CF

With the new stadium, I'm pretty sure the Wilpons are raising payroll. I'm not sure by how much though, but I'm betting it's happening. The three big holes are the pen, starting pitching, and LF.

1. Starting pitching.

I think the big word here is depth. Pitching depth is crucial. Either retain Oliver Perez or go after a Derek Lowe type. I wouldn't go after CC Sabathia because having that many years and that much money(especially the years in the Mets' case) tied up in two pitchers is BAD news if one of them does a 360/gets hurt. Let the 5th starter spot be an open competition between Heilman, Niese, Vargas, and possibly bring in an injury-prone guy on an incentive-based deal to put into the mix. Personally, I'd like to see Heilman start, his weakness is the "big inning", and having one bad inning once in a while isn't as bad if you're starting. Also, people need to realize that he could have been pitching through injury this year and his stats this year are an anomaly from those of past years.

Santana-Pelfrey-Perez-Maine-Heilman/FA/Niese.

2. The bullpen.

One needs to realize that signing K-Rod will not be the be all, end all to the Mets bullpen woes. I just see consistently declining peripherals. Just because the player is still really, really good doesn't mean that trends in peripherals should be discounted (see: Zito, Barry). And, Mets fans, he's NOT the 3 up, 3 down kind of guy. There will be baserunners. There will be RISP. And, the nature of the "save" is ridiculous, as you can give up 2 runs with a 3 run lead and still get the save (and K-Rod has done that). And, if all you do is bring in K-Rod

In conclusion, I'm bringing in one proven arm. Either Fuentes via FA, or Ryan (minimal prospect cost), or Street (higher prospect cost, low monetary cost). Show is a LOOGY. I'd also try to hold on to Ayala to set up, and possibly bring in a Juan Cruz, Jeremy Affeldt, and a couple of other mid-level guys. Also, pick up a few struggling guys on minor league deals and give them ST invites. The teams that saw the most improvement in their pens generally aren't the ones who are paying 8MM+ for a closer.

3. Luis Castillo and Left Field.

I am *trying* to dump Luis Castilo if possible, eating salary maybe. However, I don't see it happening, and the Mets might just have to live with him as a bench player.

Orlando Hudson has stated that he wants to play for the Mets. I don't know how much of that is posturization though. And, I'd be hesitant to give him more than 2 years with his injuries and the fact that the Mets still have Castillo on the books. Hudson should only be considered IF Castillo is dumped.

However, I'd rather try to bring in an impact LF and let whoever play 2B (Murphy, perhaps). Always nice to open up the stadium with a new big bat to go along with Wright-Reyes-Beltran. And, he'll have more impact than a Hudson type player will, and the Mets have the money.

ADropOFVenom-

One question. Since you are a Mets fan, what prospects would you put on the table as possible trade chips to net relievers(namely Street and Ryan)? Which ones are untouchable?

1. randy wolf? please. are we following the yankees' way that if they're good enough to beat us, they're good enough to join us (and then stink)

2. why are we already pencilling in daniel murphy's name at second when we don't know if he can field the position yet? with carlos delgado back at first, it's imperative the second baseman have the range not only to cover second but to also cheat and get balls that a better fielding first baseman could get to.

3. are there even 3 or 4 good relievers available for the mets to sign or trade for?

i don't see the mets going for ibanez although i undestand your thought process. the mets are in dire need of a right handed power bat. i could see rivera fitting the mold more than ibanez. add in the fact he's a former expo and undervalued means he would be most likely an omar minaya special.

"Then if we could I would trade Beltran,Overbay and Church to the Cubs, for Marmol,Pie,Soriano,Lee,Samardzija & Colvin"

ROFL!!!
As a Cub fan my first reaction was no way should we trade half of our bullpen and half of our offense for Carlos Beltran, but hey, you threw in Church and Overbay (who you don't even have yet btw) so yeah, that's worth it.

Maybe the Cubs can trade the Mets DLee for Reyes, Wright and FMart and Pelfrey. Seriously, we'll throw in Reed Johnson and Neal Cotts. Deal???

"ADropOFVenom-

One question. Since you are a Mets fan, what prospects would you put on the table as possible trade chips to net relievers(namely Street and Ryan)? Which ones are untouchable?"

Unless someone like Joakim Soria becomes available...

Any prospect in the upper levels of our minors not named Fernando Martinez or Daniel Murphy are available in my mind. 2 (Possibly 3) of Jonathon Niese, Nick Evans, Mike Carp, Bobby Parnell, Eddie Kunz, Dillon Gee, Dylan Owen, Shawn Bowman, Michael Antonini is the group I'm hoping to pry away Huston Street with. I suspect Billy Beane would find enough in there that interests him.

From the Major League Roster, not much would be available (For obvious reasons, teams looking to win next season rarely are selling good chips), Luis Castillo, Aaron Heilman, Scott Schoeneweis, Duaner Sanchez could all be had, I would consider dealing Ryan Church if there's a significant enough player coming in return, otherwise I'm not looking to tear up the core of this team.

franzferdinand

then tell me who you would like at 2B and dont say some unrealistic bullsh!t like Orlando Hudson or Rafael Furcal.... maybe Mark Ellis who is a free agent could work on a 2 year deal

- Do not sign Manny Ramirez. First, the Mets offense is already really good as it is now. They got 350 RBIs out of their 3, 4 and 5 hitters in 2008. Improving pitching should be any teams number one priotity, ESPECIALLY for the Mets considering what happened this year. Second, he brings way too much drama with him and will be a plague on the team by 2011-2012 if he gets the deal he wants. Third, He is just as bad if not worse defensively than Murphy/Tatis. And fourth, there will be plenty of good bats at LF on the market during 2009 and the following offseason if the Mets don't make a mid-season trade, (Bay, Nady, Crawford, Holliday, etc.) all of which are younger and will cost less than Manny.

- Liquidate Castillo by any means necessary. Throw him in a package with Evans for next to nothing. An RP will do. It's OK if the Mets get the shaft on the trade just GET RID OF HIM AND HIS HORRIBLE CONTRACT!

- Obviously some of those RP need to go. Heilman and Sanchez are must trades. Trade them for anything, preferably RP, and preferably during the offseason. Trading Schoenweiss might be a little more difficult as he carries a $3.6M salary with him. If we can somehow liquidate Castillo without throwing in Evans, trade Heilman/Evans/Porspect for Huston Street.

- Have Murphy and Tatis platoon LF.
- Have someone in the farm system be the 5th starter. Neise stands out the most but there are other options.

- Sign Orlando Hudson for around ~10M a year.
- Sign Derek Lowe for around ~10-15M a year.
- Sign K-Rod or Brian Fuentes for around ~10-15M a year. I'd prefer Fuentes but wouldn't mind K-Rod.
- Sign Darren Oliver or Jeremy Affeldt for around ~2-4M a year. I'd prefer Oliver as he's cheaper.

-----

...Which leaves the Mets with a ~$140-145 million payroll and on opening day this lineup...

C - Schneider
1B - Delgado
2B - Hudson
SS - Reyes
3B - Wright
LF - Murphy/Tatis
CF - Beltran
RF - Church

C - Castro
IF - Easely
IF - A. Reyes
OF - Chavez
OF - Anderson
OF - Murphy/Tatis

SP - Santana
SP - Lowe
SP - Maine
SP - Pelfrey
SP - Neise or Other Minor Leaguer

CL - K-Rod or Fuentes
RP - Oliver or Affeldt
RP - Feliciano
RP - Smith
RP - Stokes
RP - RP traded for Castillo/Evans/Heilman/Sanchez/Schoenweiss
RP - RP traded for Castillo/Evans/Heilman/Sanchez/Schoenweiss

-----

- Should Delgado have another miserable first half without turning it around as he did last year, trade him in a package with some prospects for an OF, preferably an LF, and move Murphy to 1B.

How about a trade for Matt Holliday? Say F-Mart,Carp,Heilman and a prospect

its going to take more than one outfeild prospect, a bum reliever and someone i never heard and another prospect to get holliday. i love how mets fans just come up with these ridulcious trade offers for superstars for bums. it would take niese f-mart to start and probably a major league ready pitcher, maybe maine to get holliday from the rockies.

I don't see Daniel Murphy as a second baseman at all, but I guess only time will tell if he could handle playing the position in the Arizona Fall League. I like Murphy but he was ranked only as high as #9 in the Mets prospects list and I wouldn't be surprised if he got exposed next season as a hitter. I'm not buying the hype until I see him for a full season.

How about picking up Freddy Sanchez in a deal with Pittsburgh to play second base after Castillo gets dealt for a box of paper clips?

Murphy really only has to be 'tolerable' in the field in order to be a significant upgrade.

Castillo and Easley combined (Granted, due to injuries) had by far the worst range of any 2B in the league last season, so it's not exactly like the bar is high for Daniel Murphy to have to upgrade over that.

I would be more then happy if Murphy was just slightly below-average defensively next season, with the hope of eventually becoming average, as even that is an upgrade Defensively, and because with his bat he would be a Top 10 2B Offensively.

As for Heilman and Sanchez, I wouldn't just give them away. They have 3 things working for them, they have shown the ability to be successful in the past, they are still cheap (Should combine for under 4 million in arbitration), and even last year they were still good situationally, they were just overused/misused because the Mets didn't have a true set-up man. If I don't get decent value for them, I'm holding onto them and letting them compete for a job next season. Worst case is we end up cutting them then.

Jays fan here.

Considering Toronto's depth in their bullpen, Ryan is certainly expendable.

As mentioned earlier, there is no way the Jays do Overbay + Ryan + prospect for Delgado. As one poster mentioned above me, even Ryan straight up wouldn't make much sense for 1 year of Delgado.

Mets fans, what do you guys think of:

Ryan for Delgado + Heilman?

I'm sure Toronto would be willing to take a shot on Heilman and have Arnsberg work with him as a reclamation project. Plus, considering their complete mess of a starting rotation, having a pitcher with prior starting experience wouldn't hurt either.

acekicker, where do i sign?

This love affair with Brian Fuentes is amazing. I get a kick out of comments like, "Well we should sign Fuentes. If he's gone I guess we could get K-Rod."

Have you really looked at Brian Fuentes? Ever studied the guys numbers?

Let's start with the obvious, he will be 33 next year. No spring chicken.

Next, he has closed for 4 years. During that time he has converted 85% of his save opportunities.

By year, here is his other key stats:

2005 - ERA=2.91 - OPS=684 - K/9=11.02
2006 - ERA=3.44 - OPS=673 - K/9=10.06
2007 - ERA=3.08 - OPS=622 - K/9=8.22
2008 - ERA=2.73 - OPS=570 - K/9=11.78

K-Rod during those same years posted:

2005 - ERA=2.67 - OPS=591 - K/9=12.16
2006 - ERA=1.73 - OPS=609 - K/9=12.08
2007 - ERA=2.81 - OPS=605 - K/9=12.03
2008 - ERA=2.24 - OPS=630 - K/9=10.14

K-Rod has posted better ERA's every year, better OPS against 3 out of 4 years and better K/9 3 out of 4 years. Oh, and K-Rod has converted 90% of his save opportunities (which comes out to an additional 2 wins in a 40 save season) and will be 27 next year, 6 years the junior to Fuentes.

If reports are to be believed Fuentes is looking for a Lidge like deal (4/50 - club option on the 4th year) Fuentes won't be cheap. On the high end, K-Rod is hoping for 5/75. Everyone knows that K-Rod won't get that. But just to play devil's advocate, let's say he does.

So, you have a choice, pay an inferior 33 year old $12m/year for 4 years or a superior 27 year old $15m/year for 5 years.

Fuentes is a fine closer. He will be an upgrade for most teams that go after him. I happen to think that he is not as valuable as K-Rod, especially if the gap is only a few extra million and one additional year. By the time K-Rod's contract expires he will still be younger than Fuentes is right now.

Or, that is to say, Martinez and Perez are going to be free agents this offseason, but they aren't as of the writing of this post.

But they both likely will be. :)

Haha sounds good Franz.

Toronto badly needs a power bat, and Ryan seems to be their most expendable trade chip in order to do so.

Toronto had 6 bullpen arms with sub 3 ERA's last season.

They could easily move Downs (1.78 ERA) into a closer role and still have three dynamite setup men in Carlson (2.25 ERA), League (2.18 ERA)and Accardo coming back from injury (2.14 ERA with 30 SV's in '07).

Moving Ryan and his $10M salary for a power bat for the DH spot and a reliever/starter with a track record of success and decent upside would be a solid move.

That way, they could throw all of their remaining cash into the starter's market.

"Until you get players with heart like Victorino, Utley, Rollins etc you will NEVER win the division much less anything else."

Yeah, he told you Met fans. You see, Victorino's "heart" had a .900 OPS this year, and Beltran's "heart" only had a .700 OPS. "Heart" is what wins games, not talent. Take that, 2nd place team!!!

I guess when your team wins the division you're entitled to say anything you want, whether it makes sense or not.

Carlos Silva? Not for nothing, but the Castillo and Schoeneweis contracts aren't THAT bad that we need to take on Carlos Silva. He is an absolute disaster.

For the record, Jarrod Washburn is in the last year of his contract and he is making a lot of money. He could be a throw-in in a deal involving Putz if you really want to throw away contracts that badly.

But I love Adam Dunn for this team as well, whether or not Delgado stays. I think part of why Philadelphia is such a dangerous team is because of Pat Burrell's .400 OBP every year behind the first four hitters in the lineup. That lineup never lets up. Dunn would serve that same purpose on this team to go along with 40 homers a year. His defense wouldn't be as intolerable with Beltran covering plenty of ground out there and the possibility of Endy Chavez as a late-inning replacement.

I personally think he is a solid replacement for Delgado with Daniel Murphy and Dunn being interchangeable between first and left field and the team getting younger without Delgado, but that's just me.

Of course the kicker here is Wayne Krivsky, who would spew all of the propaganda in the world into Omar Minaya's ears convincing him not to sign Dunn.

Guys, Mark Ellis would be a horrible fit in NY. Not because he'd be a bad signing, but he would be cauterized for his streaky hitting. I love Ellis. Having him at 2B really helped the young A's staff this year. The NY media would eat him alive. The media looks more at offense than defense. Ellis is a primarily defensive player---not much of an offensive improvement at this stage of his career over Castillo, although a HUGE defensive improvement. But, guys, he is a streaky hitter.

"i like melonis' ideas. dude, i thought you weren't a met fan."

I'm not. Being sick and lethargic means more time on MLBTR and other sites. And more rant-like posts. And, there really isn't anything brewing involving my team right now.

The mets need a drastic overhaul. What do the 4 teams left in the playoffs have in common? They have excellent bullpens and have bats at most positions. The Mets line-up last year had anywhere from 3-4 holes, not counting the pitchers spot, on any given night. 2nd Base and catcher were horrific and the corner outfield spots were a guessing game. Don't get me wrong, Church was great early on and Tatis and Murphy provided solid play but for most of the season we had no idea what kind of production we would get out of those spots. It showed in the later innings when the Mets were tragically unable to tack on runs. The "core" guys got pitched around for the most part and games were being decided by a group of guys that might not even make an expansion team.The bullpen issue can not be stressed enough. It seems like everyone agrees on that point though...Even the rotation has huge issues...remember 06...Oliver Perez and John Maine starting key games in the playoffs...Steve Trachsel not even wanting to pitch...well at the end of the season we had a similar situation. Let's say they had ended up tied with Milwaukee and played the monday game. Pelfrey pitched Friday, Santana was brought back on 3 days rest to pitch saturday and Perez on three days rest to pitch sunday. Who is starting? Brandon Knight...Pedro, who is absolutely done...or maybe they could get a one game appearance by Duque.

The team is built poorly, and major changes need to be made, that is if this team is going to be a championship contender. We can continue to go on like this, plugging 4 field positions, 2-3 spots in the rotation and the entire bullpen with question marks and hoping that they come through but we've seen that approach is probably only good for 88 wins. 06 was an aberration...LoDuca, Valentin put up all star nubmers...the chances of finding scrap heap guys to do that again is slim.

That being said, the only guys that I think should be untouchable on this team are David Wright, Johan Santana and Mike Pelfrey. Eveyone else, and yes I mean everyone should be expendable. It's the only way that the team can take a step forward. All these trades using Niese and Martinez to get you guys like Holliday (who by the way should re-sign with Colorado...look at his home/road splits)are pipe dreams. Martinez is a good prospect, but I don't see teams falling all over themselves to get a shot at him. People that are thinking of trading Heilman for anything other than a struggling reliever, a mid level prospect or someone a team has given up on are deluding themselves. GM's watch games too...at this point Heilman is nothing but a righty specialist...with no heart.

In order for this team to take a big step forward, they need to start thinking about moving some stars. A package around Beltran (notice...a package...Beltran plus something else of value) to the white sox for Swisher, Dye and Jenks would serve a few purposes. Swisher is better than he played last season, he can play multiple positions an he's young. Dye is the right handed bat the Mets need in the line-up and Jenks is a solid reliever with big game experience. Whatever offense is lost with Beltran going would be made up for by Swisher and Dye. I know they are still in it, but I would explore a package around Reyes to the Dodgers for a few of their young performers...I love Kemp, Loney, Broxton, Martin and Billingley. If you package Reyes with something of value you can probably pry 2 or 3 of those guys away, maybe even package Castillo with it and take back a bad contract like Juan Pierre or Jason Schmidt. Delgado only makes sense for a few teams like the Blue Jays and D-backs that are ridiculously defficient offensively and he can be packaged to obtain value too...Chris Shnyder and Chad Qualls from the D-Backs would be solid chips. I would love to grab Shnyder outside of a Delgado trade as well, he's got an .800 plus OPS and is only 27...in addition their are a lot of guys that could be had in low cost trades that I would like to see the Mets take a shot on...Edwin Jackson...Daniel Cabrera, if they don't work out as starters, try them in the bullpen...look at what JP Howell is doing for the Rays. I would rather see them take chances on young guys with upside than old guys like Martinez, Duque, Castillo, Alou...do I need to continue?

I'm not saying that these trades should all be made or any of them for that matter...I just through out some ideas of the type of moves that could be made to change the make-up of this team and this team drastically needs a shake-up. They came out flat last year and needed to have the manager fired to get going...let's not make the same mistake again. If I had my way we might bring back 10 of the 25 guys on the roster.

ChicoWalker- Catcher is not an offensive black hole. Defense is MUCH MORE VALUED than offense at the catcher's spot. I mean, the guy needs to be servicable with the bat and not downright godawful horrible, but low offense from the catcher spot is decent. I want a guy who can call games well and be a rock for that pitching staff. That being said, Schnieder is not a black hole. And, the Mets aren't getting an offensive catcher (no, Pudge doesn't count, his bat is declining), because most of them (Mauer, McCann, Martin, Soto, etc.) are untouchable. The only catcher I'd target if I wanted to improve is possibly Benjie Molina of the Giants, possibly using Murphy, Evans, Carp, etc. as the centerpiece of such a trade.

Another name I'd like to throw out in the bullpen mix would be Troy Percival. He's signed at 4MM for next year, and I could see him being moved. He was brought in to help fix that godawful bullpen, but the Tampa Bay bullpen is just fine this year (and next) without him. He wouldn't cost much in terms of prospects and would be another cheap addition to the pen.

melonis rex...the only team schneider can hit is the nationals...and I realize that defense is more highly valued than offense at catcher, but Schneider's defense proved to be mostly reputation. I watched about 95% of the Mets games this year, and he didn't look like a defensive wizard. Statistically he had a 33% caught stealing rate, 4 passed balls...although their were quite a few questionable wild pitches, and a 4.11 CERA...I would take Jose Molina's awful bat and stellar defense (44% caught stealing and 3.69 CERA), but Schneider's defense doesn't excuse having 6 extra base hits before the all star break. For some reason he can hit the nationals...but other than that, I barely think he's major league. By the way...if you notice Soto, Pierzinski, Navarro, Napoli, Martin and Mauer (163rd game is kind of post season...) were all on post season teams. The only teams that made it to October with bad offensive catcher's were the red Sox...and Schneider is no Varitek and Milwaukee and kendall's 42% CS and 3.83 CERA were vastly superior to Schneider's and he only had 4 passed balls as well...but in 40 more games...Shnyder had a 31%CS...i'll trade 2% for an extra .100 plus points in OPS

Incidentally...the Percival idea isn't awful...but again, i would rather see them bring in some high potential arms...at some point Percival will fall off a cliff...chances are he has...he was left off the playoff roster for a reason, even if it's just due to injuries, do you really want another guy that looks destined to break down late in the season?

Rosenthal's article got me thinking so I did a little research. Is it just me or Minaya trying to put together the all-Latin team? I mean i know they have Wright and other player that they DEVELOPED, and have traded for Schneider and Church but this is overwhelming. And dont tell me they have a great scout team in latin america....every team does!

Of Latin decent on the 40 man roster:

Tony Armas
Luis Ayala
Ambiorix Burgos
Pedro Feliciano
Nelson Figueroa
Orlando Hernandez
Pedro Martinez
Carlos Muniz
Oliver Perez
Ricardo Rincon
Duaner Sanchez
Jason Vargas
Robinson Cancel
Ramon Castro
Johan Santana
Gustavo Molina
Luis Castillo
Carlos Delgado
Ramon Martinez
Argenis Reyes
Jose Reyes
Moises Alou
Carlos Beltran
Endy Chavez
Angel Pagan
Fernando Tatis

Thats 25 of 40 players from a Latin decent. And thats just the 40 man roster....amazing. If Ozzie was available, you know he be their next manager.

My guess is that if they had to choose from a white/black player and a latino, they would sign the latino.

Hey Clarknaddison - I think its you and your biased views you think the mets are the only team with mostly hispanic players wake up the league is primarly hispanic so please keep your racist connotations to yourself.

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but since approximately 28-30% of major league players are Latino, the fact that the Mets have 63% of Latino players on their 40-man roster does speak volumes about the type of players Omar Minaya goes for.

I think it's not only a product of Minaya's ethnicity himself, but also the area. Just as it is believed that the Red Sox are predominantly a white ballclub (check the article on this site posted today), which makes sense the team is from Boston, this city, and particularly the Mets, have a large Hispanic fanbase. They have created a new identity since '05 with the ''Los Mets'' ad campaigns and whatnot.

Again, not to turn this into a racist conversation, because I don't think it should have a negative connotation, but you can't deny that Omar did create a new identity with this team with the usual numbers of Latino players on a given team being more than doubled on the Mets.

i dont mean it to be a negative thing. i have been watching and playing baseball for 19 years and i have notice that trend. latinos are very talented players. majority of best players in the league are latino. they have talent, they also have this care free attitude about them.

Matty, thank you. Im not being racist, just pointing out the fact that they are by far and away mort latino focused than any other club and have fallen flat the past 2 years because of it. Its my opinion and you can take it however you want, but, they are waaayyy to carefree. Where is the passion? Maybe Minaya should fix whats broken and change his coarse of action.

Im not a mets fan, but i think Minaya is one of if not the worst GM in baseball. I was shocked to see him extended during their colapse prior to the post season. Can anyone please tell me why they extended him and why in the heck do it when they did? It just seems like a poor decision by a poor franchise.

Yeah I don't think the fact that the Mets are a predominantly Latino team led to their downfall (in fact, I think that has no merit), but anyone that is denying that the Mets pick out a whole lot of Latino players just needs to look at the numbers compared to the rest of baseball.

Just for fun

Pelfrey - drafted in the first round by Minaya
Niese - drafted by Minaya
Maine - traded for by Minaya
Wagner - signed by Minaya
Smith - drafted by Minaya
Wright - not signed by Minaya...but resigned to a great deal by Minaya
Murphy - drafted by Minaya

I won't get into Stokes and Knight and those guys because I'm relatively sure they were just random pick-ups...The mets have become a much more talented team under Minaya. They are way better than before he took over the team...it's not good enough, especially for the money they spend...but outside of Castillo and Pedro and I don't see any awful contracts being given out to hispanic players over white or black players of better ability.

Who is equal to Santana or Beltran or Delgado at the time they traded for him...who is equal or better than Reyes...who I think was signed by Steve Phillips?

Amazing isn't it. Baseball has turned its attention on developing and scouting players in other countries while our own inner cities get the short end of the stick. Then baseball wonders why inner city baseball isn't producing more players. Geez, R.B.I, big deal, inner cities need more programs to get kids to play baseball. Right now basketball and football are king. Its too bad baseball and the Mets dont focus more on American born talent....

A friend wrote: I can't see any way the the Red Sox are actively trying to prevent non-white players from playing for them. Racism in the past meant staying with your own kind and actively excluding others of a different race. The problem today, at least with MLB doesn't have anything to do with actively excluding non-white races, it has to do with managers and general managers who actively pursue those of their own kind (I'm talking about you Omar Minaya and Dusty Baker). Dusty, Omar and the Red Sox don't seem to exclude anyone based on race but they each do seem to prefer a certain race.

Of course you won't see anything serious written about Omar or Dusty, since they're essentially protected. You'll see tripe like Rosenthal's article though because the Red Sox are prominent and they've sinned in their past. Once a sinner, always a sinner, at least if it sells. They'll never be able to move on if people won't let them.

Now do that same test with Dusty Bakers teams of the past, or Omar Minaya's teams. If it's not an issue for them it shouldn't be an issue for the Sox either.

I guess we agree to disagree...

"Would Mets fans prefer to have Steve Phillips or Omar Minaya?"

Im glad niether one of those guys are running the Cubs...both are/were/will be terrible.

out of curiosity...do you think that that the Phillies are pitching around Manny in the playoffs because he's hispanic?

Does it count if someone is hispanic but from the US like Alex Rodriguez...what if they went to a high school in NY like Manny...what if he led his team to the playoffs by batting .400 for the second half of the season like Manny? You know what...I agree, forget Manny, forget Beltran, Reyes, Delgado and Santana...

Bring in Dontrelle, jeff kent, barry bonds and Milton Bradley and adma dunn...that should do wonders for chemistry

By the way, you mentioned our inner cities...which do need help...that much is obvious...but they need education so that they can have a realistic shot at a job...not a pipe dream of playing baseball in the majors. At any given time their are about 800 major league players...those aren't enough jobs to help the inner city problems and also...in NYC...the inner city is mostly hispanic, do they count?

chris maybe you can do that on your video game 09 mlb the show - good luck.

Yeah, I think at this point it's time to leave this conversation alone about the Mets roster and Minaya's roster trends. Some people will think there's a correlation, others will think it's a coincidence, and others will just automatically think it doesn't even matter. There's no sense in arguing about it at this point - it's only going to become heated.

Wow.

Let's just accept the fact that David Wright, Jose Reyes, and Carlos Beltran will be Mets next year. I don't know about Carlos Delgado, but it's fairly obvious that those three players will be at Citi Field next year.

Back to fixing the mets for 09.

A big reason why the mets failed for two consecutive years was their pitching their starters didn't go deep into games and the bullpen was terrible. John Maine and Oliver Perez regressed in their development while Pelfrey turned into a good pitcher.

Starting pitching opening #1. Derek Lowe would be a great signing on a 2 or 3 year deal at 15-17 mil per year with options for the fourth based on performance )innings reached no injury's playoff performance). He would also help Pelfrey develop his sinker.

Starting pitching opening #2. Sign Freddy Garcia Carl Pavano for the last spot in the rotation if you cant sign them give Heilman a shot his value can't really go any lower than it already is. Give Armas Jr. a minor league deal for insurance or maybe the long man in the pen.
The Bullpen Sign a bunch of setup men Affeldt Lyon Cruz Beimel maybe even Farnsworth to try and fix the bullpen. Relievers are hit or miss from year to year so no long term deals.

Left field Sign Juan Rivera he has never been given a starting job and will produce if given the chance. Have Tatis and Pagan also compete for the job.

Minaya is no where near the worst GM in the league and is good at finding diamonds in the rough and generally good at making trades. That said he did leave the bad bullpen the same from 07-08 and wonders why it struggled.

"Beltran, Castillo, Shoenwies to NYY for Chamberlain, Nady, Cano, A. Jackson, Hughes, E. Ramirez"

Obviously you realize that this deal would never happen, I doubt you'd be able to get three of those guys unless the three are Cano, Hughes and Ramirez. And even then I promise you the Mets would have to put in more than just Beltran. I honestly think Beltran just stays with the Mets. You're talking about an elite defensive center fielder with 40 HR power, solid contact ability, above average plate discipline and quality speed. Basically Carlos Beltran is the full package in terms of performance, he offers talent at bat, in the field and on the bases. We're talking definite top 5 CF in all of baseball, and very possibly top 3 (I'd say with Hamilton, Sizemore, Granderson and probably Vernon Wells, but there could be some big jumps in '09 from Upton, Kemp, Young, Ellsbury, Milledge, Jones and Gomez that could be interesting) That's a very, very valuable player.

"As I mentioned earlier the White Sox have a few interesting pieces...Swisher, Jenks, Floyd and Dye are all attractive. Packaging Beltran to get 3 of those 4 would make sense."

The White Sox would definitely be interested in Beltran, but honestly the price would likely turn them off, considering what's more important for them is to find some speed, defense and a leadoff hitter. Beltran could be that guy, but his value would be wasted by batting leadoff. Plus he would likely cost the White Sox something like Swisher, Jenks, and Brian Anderson. I'd rather see the White Sox go after a leadoff hitter and not make a bunch of holes in their lineup.

"I could also see the Red Sox giving some value...I like ellsbury in particular, but they would need to put at least another above average major leaguer with him."

I honestly disagree. The Red Sox aren't trying to add more payroll, not in this economy. At this point considering that Ellsbury will be cheap for another like 5 years and Beltran will cost $18.5M for the next three and then will be need to be resigned when he will be 34. The Red Sox simply are better off plugging Ellsbury into center for the next 5 years and enjoying the speed, defense and leadoff hitting.

"I think Reyes would bring the most back...what would people think of sending him to the Padres for Peavey?"

Reyes is close to getting really expensive, and that's exactly what the Padres are trying to avoid by moving Peavy. He's only cost $26M for the next three years, but after 2011 he's going to command a huge contract. The Padres would probably be better off moving Peavy for a Bedard/Haren-like package of 5-6 young players. As for moving Jose Reyes, unless they could do it for a package that returned them a top SS shortstop prospect, an MLB-ready elite pitching prospect, and another elite prospect. For example, Reyes to the Rangers for Elvis Andrus, Neftali Feliz and Taylor Teagarden. Or maybe they would do Yovani Gallardo, Alcides Escobar and Angel Salome. I think Reyes stays..

"- Take a gamble on an "Injury Risk" starter for the 5th role since you can probably sign them for cheaper. Freddy Garcia is my first choice. Carl Pavano is also someone I'd consider. This way we can go into the year not relying on people like Jonathon Niese, and can allow him more time to develop in the minors. "

Or you can just let Heilman have the 5th spot. He is just as likely to have success as Pavano or Garcia, is also cheap, and is younger and not injury prone. Give him a chance to rebuild his value, in a spot where he always wanted to be.

"EPIC TRADE

Mets get:

Dan Uggla
Scott Olsen
PTBNL

Marlins Get:

Mets Bullpen..."

I would trade the entire mets bullpen for a Carlos Marmol bobblehead doll...come to think of it they can have the HR Apple too...

"I don't see teams lining up to pay $18m/year + boat load of prospects when they can sign a guy like Burrell for $15m and no prospects"

When Andruw jones and Torii Hunter are making as much/more then Beltran, how is his contract not fair? How can you compare Burrell to Beltran? One plays LF, and provides nothing but power/obp. One plays CF, provides power/obp, baserunning, and defense. They are completely different. Beltran is among 2 or 3 other guys that are comparable to him. Burrell is among 15 or 20.

"Yeah, but you conveniently forgot it was also the same bullpen as 2006, when they were outstanding. You said it yourself, bullpen arms fluctuate from year to year."

It really wasn't the same bullpen...Darren Oliver and Chad Bradford got big time outs in 06. They also had a healthy Duaner for half the year, Roberto Hernandez for half the year and Mota on steroids...not the same thing.

For some reason I actually think you would find Yankee fans willing to put AROD in a trade for Heilman