Yankees Backup Plans

I can't wait to see the awful moves the Yankees make, continuing their path for self destruction.

Yes, because past ridiculously large contracts worked out great for the Yankees. 2010: $300,000,000 Payroll, 4th place finish.

All these guys are stupid. If the yankees dont sign him people will laugh at us and say were screwed for this season. But if we do sign him people just say that we buy all are players. But no one will say anything if the angels sign him for more than 140 million, when they were saying the yankees were over paying. The yankees and we the fans cant win either way with other fans.

Also if we dont get CC, we will get Jake Peavy(which i would want over CC anyway).

There is a bigtime possibility that the Angels might sign both, why is no one laying that down.

Here's hoping the Yankees sign Sabathia for 7 years, $160M. By 2011 he'll be Bartolo II and Pavano will just be a forgotten tragedy.

No way they will sign both.

Yeah Juiced, like you can see the future. Go back under a rock because your team sucks.
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You can't say any team sucks when your team spends that much money for 3rd place. ROFL

If the yankees dont get CC, they need an ACE. So i would bet that they make a good push for Peavy(Peavy aint a free agent, you have to trade for him).

Why can't the Angels sign both? I don't see it happening but it's possible. Moreno has deep pockets too.

Damon for 4/52=BAD
JD Drew for 5/70= GOOD

Posada for 4/52= BAD
Lowell for 3/38= GOOD

Not trading 3 prospects and spending 137 mil for Santana= STUPID

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Finishing in 3rd place and missing the playoffs... Priceless.

For everything else, there's MasterCard.

YanksFan,
Most of those deals you mentioned were bad whether they were Yanks deals or other teams. The Zito deal was terrible. The Drew deal was bad cuz he was injury prone. The only deals you mentioned that were good are the Lowell and Damon deals. I know you are a Yanks fan but can you honestly say the Posada deal was good?

"Why are there so many non-yankee fans always commenting on yankee topics."

Why were so many non-Red Sox fans commenting on how awful a potential Tazawa signing is?

Rawbert:

Things can always change but Angel's execs have said it would be one or the other at best. Plus the interest in one would increase once the other was off the table.

Dynasty26,
Non-Yankees fans comment on Yankees topics for the same reason Yankees fans comment on non-Yankees topics, because we love to talk about baseball. I read almost every post and the majority of fans seem to be either Yankees, Red Sox, or Cubs fans.

start_wearing_purple:

People are quick to hold the Yanks responsible or these big contracts extended fto pitcher but refus to understand that it was the Zito, Hampton, Park, Brown deals that set in motion the contract demands for Santana and now for CC. If the Yanks want CC then they pretty much know what it would take to get him and they're willing and able to pay that price so what's the big deal? Get mad at Brian Sabean for signing a riduclously mediocre pitcher on the decline to a record setting contract. Stars should and always will get the most money.

The Yanks signed their all-star catcher who came off of a MVP caliber year at a premium position. How could the Yanks not sign him? What were the alternatives? Molina as a starter? Trading what little prospects for a starting catcher? We probably paid more for Posada than what any other team would've have offered but that's common in sports and I don't have a problem with that. Posada has NEVER had a history of injuries prior and the surgery wasn't as serious as most think. I'm more concerned with Mo being ok for next year than I am for Posada.

start_wearing_purple:

I posted a couple of comments about Tazawa, not to hate, but I had questions about his scouting report. The report said that he threw 88-90 mph and I didn't understand what the big deal was. I read most of the other posts and I didn't see many that were negative towards what the Sucks did. However, I thought it was ironic that Igawa's been called "doo doo on a stick" but yet Tazawa with about the same stuff was seen as the "golden child".

Signing both Mark Teixeira and CC Sabathia during free agency would be feasible financially, but not likely, Angels general manager Tony Reagins said Wednesday. They can afford both.

posts like this^ what does that have to do with baseball? get a life red socks dynasty

That was a quote from November 5th.

Just because the title of the post is Yankees backup plans doesn't mean its only about the Yankees. If you click on Angels rumors this post is listed with them too. If you only wanna hear Yankees fans talk maybe you should go to a Yankees chatroom. This is a baseball website where fans of any team can voice their opinions.

"This is a baseball website where fans of any team can voice their opinions."

so that makes it okay to sh]t on a franchise as you please, and then get upset when yank fans stand up for themselves? i get it

Rawbert:

I can go to just about any team's post and insert a unbiased opinion, rant or thought. You can't tell me that non-Yank fans do not go out of there way to post comments suggesting that everything the Yankees do is wrong and that everything we touch turns to crap. Please don't be so blind. People want to talk about our issues but aren't anywhere near as critical on other teams. It's just the way it is. But we appreciate the hate. It'll make #27 more enjoyable when it comes.

Dude, people do that on every move on this site for even the royals. Get over your haters bs.

Its not standing up for yourself when you are just posting comments saying why are non- Yankees fans in here posting comments.

It is arrogant to say the only reason people criticize moves is because of the jersey.

You can criticize all you want but dont make stupid comments based soley on who you root for/against. Someone said it earlier:

If the Angels sign CC= GREAT

If the Yanks sign CC= Boo. It's the 7th sign that the world is coming to an end and the Evil Empire has done it again.

Are the Yanks suppose to stop competing for players until mlb gets a better financial/revenue sharing/salary cap going or can they play by the rules and sign whom they want for what they're willing to pay?

The lack of buzz on Dunn is a bit strange. Either somebody knows something about him that is not flattering or a couple of teams are quietly working on pursuing him. He is too good and too consistent to not get some interest, especially when you look at what some of these other guys are going to try to get.

Get over yourself. No one is saying it exactly like that it is purely your perception. Anyway one obvious difference would be the large contracts the yankees already have as opposed to the angels. Too many sheltered yankees fans have trouble adapting to reality. It would be troublesome to see yankees sign a large amount of the top free agents mainly because I cannot remember a time it happened but no big deal if they give sabathia a lot. No matter who signs him it is a big risk for a pitcher and I think many think it is at least troublesome that one of the best pitchers in the game is a free agent and only a handful of teams could even consider him realistically. Observe neither point has anything to do specifically with the yankees.

"If the Angels sign CC= GREAT

If the Yanks sign CC= Boo. It's the 7th sign that the world is coming to an end and the Evil Empire has done it again."

Honestly, I think anyone signing Sabathia to more than a four year deal is playing with fire. He's swiftly developing a pattern of postseason ineptitude and I simply do not trust his build. I really don't think he's going to be a viable ace in four years and he's certainly no Santana.

"DH

Manny to the yanks would be pretty monumental even for new york standards"

The problem with Manny at DH is more the fact there's a logjam at the position for the Yanks. If they could inexplicably offload Matsui and replace Posada with someone younger, I'd consider a three year deal for Manny expressly intending him as DH might work. Any other scenario would seem potentially disastrous to me.

The other problem is his disdain for attention. His biggest problem, year after year after year, in Boston was the omnipresent and scathing media attention and intense scrutiny he was constantly under. NY is the only place in the entire MLB he could go where that would actually be worse. If he hated Boston, I imagine he'd be crying for a trade by the middle of April in NY.

Obsession:

I don't think I ever compared the deals at all. I could care less how much they spend on him. All I asked was "what was the big deal with this guy" based upon the his mediocre scouting reprt?

Rawbert:

That cat's already out the bad (see Bary Zito deal 7/123 including later salaries of 20 mil per).

Obssesion:

Man-NY hated the BOSTON media. I didn't see him shying away from the cameras in LA. It's a big difference.

Obsession:

Honestly, I think anyone signing Sabathia to more than a four year deal is playing with fire. He's swiftly developing a pattern of postseason ineptitude and I simply do not trust his build. I really don't think he's going to be a viable ace in four years and he's certainly no Santana.

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CC is only 28 years old. Has never been on the DL and I've heard plently of "experts" say that CC's frame is perfect or a hard throwing durable pitcher. With the Yanks I would expect to see his inning reduced down to around 200-215 innings. There isn't a need for him to go 9 innings every time out. And really, I think injuries are more of a concern for fans than it is for GM's. You don't want to be careless but most of these deals are insured. Yes premiums may go up and the insurance world isn't exactly strong right now but all in all every top pitcher has some concerns. CC is the healthiest of all the available FA not named Lowe but even Lowe can't be counted on so much at age 36.

I bet you the Giants would love Zito's arm to fall off so they can write that contract off the books. I know......bad bad YanksFan...

yanks backup plan # 276:

Be content with being the 4th best team in their division.

WOB - There is inherent risk in signing any pitcher, but if you want to go out and sign a free agent pitcher who happens to be really good you HAVE to accept the risk and add the years to the contract. Therefore, if you are going to sign a FE pitcher all you can do is your homework and limit the risk as much as possible. With that, CC makes sense - young, big guy, good mechanics, no history of injuries. Otherwise, you will lose out to other teams.

Also, remember, when anyone signs a FA you are almost never getting fair-market value. You are buying someone at peak-value because it is a bidding process.

Risk is everywhere, so risk managment is crucial. The Giants did a terrible job with Zito, as all of the signs pointed to a pitcher in decline.

"Man-NY hated the BOSTON media. I didn't see him shying away from the cameras in LA. It's a big difference."

There's a big difference between the Boston media and the LA media, yes. LA is primarily a basketball town, not baseball. He said his favorite thing was that people didn't seem to recognize him a lot of the time. NYC is a big baseball town primarily and their media is almost identical to Boston's, except bigger. It would be essentially out of the frying pan and into the fryer.

"A pattern of pstseason ineptitude? That is "fan-talk" and has no basis in reality. It's the result of a tiny sample size."

Small sample size or not, he suddenly hit a wall two postseasons in a row. That is the definition of a pattern. In 25 postseason innings, he has close to an 8 ERA with a WHIP of 2.2.

"The fact of the matter is that CC was not overworked his first couple of seasons in MLB and he has held-up with the workload of the past 2 seasons."

Considering the Yankees' bullpen troubles the last couple of years (Outside of Rivera and, to an extent, Chamberlain, they've not had a reliable consistent arm out there), Sabathia's probably going to see a lot of work there, especially considering there's been virtually zero talk about the Yankees trying to shore up their relief corps. The problem will likely only be exacerbated.

"he is at an age where if there were obvious signs of a future breakdown we would likely have seem them already (think Pedro struggling after 100 pitches)."

Many pitchers struggle after 100 pitches and it's incredibly rare for a starter to top that consistently. Heck, Sabathia actually didn't generally go far past 100 pitches himself. What evidence supports the notion he'd be showing his problems now? He's only twenty-eight. Giving him something past a four year deal is when you start getting into the years where he'd start showing age and at a contract like that, he'd be almost impossible to move.

"Unless he gets injured there is no reason to think that CC would not be wildly effective for at least the next 5-7 years. Power pitchers age better than finesse pitchers (Clemens, Schilling and RJ) and big guys age better than small guys (think Pedro who generates speed with a whip-like motion and a small frame)."

Top tier power pitches age better than finesse pitchers, but most power pitchers effectively fall apart quicker and hit a wall much more suddenly, unless they learn to be power pitchers. Look at Mussina. His 2007 was absolute, irredeemable garbage because he'd lost his fastball. He redeemed himself with a stellar 2008 by molding himself into a finesse pitcher. Hell, people say Wakefield could potentially pitch close to fifty because he relies on a gimmick pitch that's easy on the arm slot, rather than the violent wear of a pitcher who relies upon velocity. For examples, look at your own examples of Schilling and Johnson, both of whom absolutely fell apart due to losing a step on their velocity. And as for the big guys, you're looking at a different class of "big guys." Schilling and Clemens were big, muscular types (Each about 6'4", 215-220ish). Johnson was lanky (6'10", 225). Sabathia is three inches shorter and has about 25 pounds on Johnson and thirty on Clemens and Schill. The difference is all three were built guys, Sabathia is reputably chunky. It doesn't take much research. Just GIS them all. Clemens was a built dude, as was Schilling in his prime. Johnson was slender. Sabathia's body type is closer to Curt Schilling of late or David Wells. Wells had a promising start to his career, but he was never a staff ace.

This sums up all the silly Yankee haters and the way they view anything the Yanks do:

Zito for 7/123= GOOD
CC for 6/140= BAD

Damon for 4/52=BAD
JD Drew for 5/70= GOOD

Posada for 4/52= BAD
Lowell for 3/38= GOOD

Not trading 3 prospects and spending 137 mil for Santana= STUPID

Signing CC for 6/140=INCREDIBLY STUPID

Any other team wanting to improve their team via free agency= GREAT

Yanks wanting to do the same= EVIL, STUPID and ELITIST.

We're never going to get approval from non-yankee fans so why bother worrying about them.

Posted by: YanksFanSince78 | November 25, 2008 at 01:12 PM

Dude, keep playing the vicim, you work it so well.....

All of those signings were bad (minus CC cause we don't know what will happen), except for the Santana one. It's amazing, no Yankee fan will admit they screwed up by not trading 3 players who completely flopped this year for a proven ace that did great this year, and would have easily been the ace that you could have ridden into the playoffs instead of relying on Ponson or whatever other trash you had out there.

Drew signing=completely terrible.

Posada signing=bad but not as bad as drew.

Zito signing=worst ever

walkoffblast:

In case of a signfigant career ending injury (And I wasn't wishing that on him) the Giants, I'm sure' have insured the contract. While the money would still be owed to Zito, the insurer would have to cut a check for what ever amount they are liable for and that would at least offset the amount due to Zito.

Obssesions wrote w/ regards to CC:

Small sample size or not, he suddenly hit a wall two postseasons in a row. That is the definition of a pattern. In 25 postseason innings, he has close to an 8 ERA with a WHIP of 2.2.

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So 4 post season starts in the last 2 years is enough of a sampling size for you to determine that he's a post-season bust?

Beside IMO judging whether or not to sign a player based soley off of their post-season record is a stupid thing to do. W/o a pitcher of CC's caliber the Yanks may not have to worry about what he may or may not do in the playoffs because we might not be there ourselves. Just as stupid would be to sign Lowe based upon how tough he might've been 4 years ago when he pitched for the Sucks in the post-season.

btw, my first post that should read:

Victim.

My keyboard is worn out.

Obsessions - CC was overwoeked and tired by the postseason the past 2 years. His arm slot was dropping (sign of fatigue) which flattens out your slider and hurts location overall.

The postseason is just more games. Get over this myth about "being clutch" or "knowing how to win".

The Yankees bullpen in '08 was actually pretty strong and should continue to be in '09 as they have good depth and a number of power arms to use.

The 100 pitch comment was to show that there are no signs of injury at this point. His velocity was strong, even at the end of the year.

This last part you couldn't be more wrong. Mussina was NEVER a power pitcher. Schilling had an injury that hurt him and Johnson is 44 years old. A power pitcher is a guy who can dominate with his FB and that is what CC is capable of. He is 6'7" and strong, so get over his size and stop with the Wells and Colon comparisons. One was never that good and the other dominated with his curve and change-up.

Wakefield is an exception on his contarct for the Red Sox, Beckett was traded for, Schilling was not 28 years old when they signed him, Lester and Bucholtz are under contract and Dice-K was signed to a reasonable deal after they paid $51 million for that right, so they did spend a lot for Dice-K even if it isn;t in the contract.

So conveniently leaving Arod out I see. Derek Jeter has the largest total contract of anyone not named Arod ever.

Ivdown wrote:

Dude, keep playing the vicim, you work it so well.....

All of those signings were bad (minus CC cause we don't know what will happen), except for the Santana one. It's amazing, no Yankee fan will admit they screwed up by not trading 3 players who completely flopped this year for a proven ace that did great this year, and would have easily been the ace that you could have ridden into the playoffs instead of relying on Ponson or whatever other trash you had out there.

Drew signing=completely terrible.

Posada signing=bad but not as bad as drew.

Zito signing=worst ever

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I hate stupid statements like this. Did I or anyone on this post say the Yanks were not wrong for NOT making this deal? For the record, I agreed with Cash because at the time we thought Melky was our CF of the future and only had Damon as the other in house option and we wanted Kennedy to be part of our staff. Was it a mistake? Judging by what we know today? Yes. But the idea of drafting, nurturing and playing our own players was refreshing.

Understand this; the Yanks have made many mistakes. But not every trade, player drafted or FA signing has been a mess. I'm more than satisfied with the Damon FA signing. I think he's been a great lead off hitter and has given us 2 out 3 really good years. Admittedly I like him much better in LF than CF but that's a mistake being made by the coach not the player. People say we don't develope players but give no mention of guys like Wang, Cano, Soriano, Melky and Joba that have come up in the last 4 years.

walkoffblast wrote:

So conveniently leaving Arod out I see. Derek Jeter has the largest total contract of anyone not named Arod ever.
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As you know Arod was signed to a 10 yr $250 mil deal by the Texas Rangers. He came to NY along with a truck load of cash paid by Texas. After 5 years of avg 42 hrs and 123 rbis were we suppose to offer him a pay cut? The Yanks deal with Arod transcends what he does on the field and will pay for itself many times over (hopefully that will include some rings). Jeter signed a 189 mil/10 year deal when he was 26 coming off of 4 ws titles (Feb 2001). In terms of total dollars it was big but it was trumped by the 25 mil per that the Rangers signed Arod (Dec 2000) to and the 20 mil per that Boston signed w/ Ramirez (Dec 2000)

"The Yanks deal with Arod transcends what he does on the field and will pay for itself many times over "

I'd love to hear why. Actually I'd love to know what that even means.

So what is the point of stating a bunch of contract numbers with your personal justification? Your big contracts do not count because you know reasons why they were done? Every team had a reason when they gave out large contract, so what?Everyone with 4 rings gets 2nd largest contract in baseball history?
The yankees paid clemens an average annual of over 28 million. What about mariano's current contract?

The yankees currently have the highest paid c,ss,3b and closer. No other team has more than one of the highest paid players at any position.

CMM, you are using grade school logic. If you pick the right one it works. Really? Ever consider the converse? Sure you can find one good guy here and there in free agency but you cannot build your staff that way especially the top half of it. The point is the top guys do not sign low risk deals as you are pointing out. So they come at a high cost, with high years ergo high risk.

Do you know what a free agent signing is? Schilling to the red sox was not a free agent signing. Also are you aware of the time frames we are talking about? You find one success story from 7 years ago that is not even completely accurate because they had to deal the pitchers because they cost too much. What about the crippling failures? Hampton, zito etc. It has failed many more times than it has worked.