Perrotto's Latest: Dye, Jenks, Werth, Madson

Seems to me that the Mets would need to give up a heck of a lot more than F-Mart to land both those guys.

Curious to see who else is involved in this "whisper".

As a Sox fan, I'm sorry, the only way that I would trade Jenks is if Wright or Reyes is coming back, ONLY way. If Jenks goes anywhere, I will severely start to question KW's thought process.

"Regarding the Orioles' possible involvement in a trade that would send Jake Peavy to the Cubs, Perrotto says Baltimore seeks Ronny Cedeno and Felix Pie from Chicago."

Well, from the Cubs standpoint, those players are out of options anyway...

I figured that Cedeno would be in the deal somewhere...but I would think that this would mean that they won't be trading Fontenot now...

I didn't mean to lump Heilman into the prospect group, just that I think the White Sox would want a young MLB ready pitcher like Heilman followed by prospects.

"As a Sox fan, I'm sorry, the only way that I would trade Jenks is if Wright or Reyes is coming back, ONLY way. If Jenks goes anywhere, I will severely start to question KW's thought process."

Hahahahaha, you Sox fans are goofy if you think Jenks is worth that.

Steven, I think that they might be asking for more like Pelfry back, rather than Heilamn.

I can see the sox wanting the centerpieces of the trade to be Pelfry and F-Mart if they are giving up both Dye and Jenks.

Seems to me that if the it is Dye and Jenks that the Mets would need to give F-Mart, Maine or Pelfrey and a few others.

Jenks is a very good closer, but he is not a premier.

I would say that there are maybe three premier closers, Nathan, Papelbon and Rivera.

Jenks is not on that level.

If Fmart is available that tells you Minaya isn't feeling too comfortable.

Sox fans are crazy to think they are going to get Pelfrey in that deal. The Mets already have 2 SP holes, with no one waiting in AAA. Big Pelf isn't going anywhere.

(At least he better not.)

Sorry - I meant to write that I would NOT rule out a Payton return to Boston. Too quick with the post!

This deal would never happen Sox are not trading Jenks

pie and cedeno for olson sounds good to me... lets make it happen!

I would be shocked if this Mets/Sox deal went down. I wouldn't think the Mets would be interested in emptying the farm for Jenks and Dye.

Jenks is a great closer but the FA Market is filled with them right now and there's very little demand.

Dye would be a nice addition to their lineup but is not neccessary. They would be losing their future OF for possibly years to come (F-Mart) for one year of Dye.

If this deal goes down it will reek of despiration on Minaya's part.

As for the Phillies extension talks...

I'd love to see them lock up Werth for 3+ years. He's a young, above average right handed OF with some pop.

Madson I would be alittle wary of. He was brilliant down the stretch but his value right now is the highest it's ever been. If he's demanded closer-like money, no thanks.

"I would be shocked if this Mets/Sox deal went down. I wouldn't think the Mets would be interested in emptying the farm for Jenks and Dye.

Jenks is a great closer but the FA Market is filled with them right now and there's very little demand.

Dye would be a nice addition to their lineup but is not neccessary. They would be losing their future OF for possibly years to come (F-Mart) for one year of Dye.

If this deal goes down it will reek of despiration on Minaya's part."

You are absolutely right. Why empty the farm for a closer, when K-Rod is available for just money? And Dye is 35 years old with only one year on his contract. No thank you

I do not think KW is moving Jenks at all, plus Pelfrey is going nowhere unless Omar loses his mind.

I think everyone says the same thing about the mets farm hands...I want Niese, Parnell, Murphy and Kunz.

Wilmer Flores is going to be a stud and play SS, he is abot 3 years away, but they are looking to re-build if they are trading Jenks and Dye.

I would do F-Mart, Flores, Niese and Parnell for Jenks and Dye.

That situates them with a SS and can move Ramirez to CF, F-Mart can be ready in a year, and two solid pitchers. I would rather take that, thank homer bailey who has not sold me on anything for the last 2 years.

Jenks and Dye are better then anything the Mets got...
How were the playoffs last yr? or the yr before?
Oh wait you CHOKED

" but they can arguably get a better one in FA with K-Rod (for just $)."

Costs a draft pick as well as money...just saying.

If Baltimore is interested in Pie and Cedeño, add Marquis and some cash for Brian Roberts.

It's funny how people look at K-Rod and talk about his diminishing stuff.

Jenks K/9
2005: 11.44
2006: 10.34
2007: 7.75
2006: 5.55

K-Rod:
2005: 12.16
2006: 12.08
2007: 12.03
2008: 10.14

Seems to me that Jenks dropping his K rate by MORE THAN 50% should be a red flag. K-Rod's could be a blip for all we know - a one year aberration.

Point is, Jenks is a nice closer but certainly not elite. There are plenty of red flags around him. Why would the Mets trade good talent when they can get a younger pitcher who has more proven results in K-Rod? The only cost is some scratch a draft pick.

I did not know that K/9 rate of Jenks was dipping like that, I am curious what Sox fans opinion on that is?

"Costs a draft pick as well as money...just saying."

Aduncaroo: You are totally right, I forgot about the pick.

As for the people who say, "Leave it to Mets fans to say all it costs is money"... please because it would be the only $$ spent in the off season as of right now...umm am I mistaken or does that just make sense. Wait a second, how many other teams are going to spend some money this off season?? all but 5? Even the Rays might have that philosophy for a player or so.

"For all you people who don't know certain players' contracts situations Dye is under contract for '09, but has an option for '10 as well, so if he performs like he normallly does, that '10 option would be a no-brainer. So the Mets would get 2 years of Dye, not one."

I believe Dye's 2010 option is mutual not a club option. Wouldn't that mean Dye would have to accept option if the Mets chose to offer it?

viteminj, its you that is crazy. Jenks is a top 5 closer right now and Dye is a premium hitter. You are saying that the Mets dont want to gut there farm, but if they sign both a good reliever and starter, there first draft choice next year is in the 3rd round. They will trade for either a starter or closer if theywant to keep a remotley good farm system...wu tang, your a f'cking moron.
Jenks is CONTROLLING his velocity drop do become a better pitcher. He and the sox believe that throwing strikes at 94-96 is more valauble than throwing ball and hurting your arm a 98-100. He has one of the hardest cutters and best curveball in the game.
Jenks+Dye for F-Mart, Niese, Parnell, Kunz, and Flores.

"viteminj, its you that is crazy. Jenks is a top 5 closer right now and Dye is a premium hitter. You are saying that the Mets dont want to gut there farm, but if they sign both a good reliever and starter, there first draft choice next year is in the 3rd round. They will trade for either a starter or closer if theywant to keep a remotley good farm system...wu tang, your a f'cking moron.
Jenks is CONTROLLING his velocity drop do become a better pitcher. He and the sox believe that throwing strikes at 94-96 is more valauble than throwing ball and hurting your arm a 98-100. He has one of the hardest cutters and best curveball in the game.
Jenks+Dye for F-Mart, Niese, Parnell, Kunz, and Flores."

Don't mean to interrupt here but the picks you get for Dye wouldn't make any kind of impact for 5 or so years down the road. That's if you even get picks which would depend on Dye's production for the next 1-2 years. That being said, with the Mets trading all of their top prospects as you've suggested they would be giving up the chance of winning a WS for a window of about 6-7 years with Wright, Beltran, Reyes, and Santana in their prime for the chance of just winning a WS next year. It would make no sense on the Mets part.

soufside4life,

If you are going to criticize my comments, then that is fine. That is what this blog is for. Just don't start cursing at me. It takes away your credibility. Not that you had any credibility in the first place, because Jenks and Dye for F-Mart, Niese, Parnell, Kunz, and Flores is beyond ridiculous.

Ok guys does this makes any sense to you?

KW: Hey we just won the divison and made the playoffs last season... Lets rebuild!!

No. People are wondering why the sox traded who we did. Ill help you guys realize Kennys thinking.

1. Swisher was traded becuase of his attitude. He complained a ton when Griffey took over his spot in CF during the playoffs. As coaches called Swisher "Uncoachable" when Swish was in his horrible slump.

2. Javy was traded for his lack of production last season. This really showed Ozzies trust in Javy when it came down to the final games of the season. He did everything he could to avoid playing Javy and that probably saved us from missing the playoffs.

What i just showed is that KW got rid of the so called "Problem" players. Swishers attitude wasn't going to be tolerated anymore and i think Ozzie just had enough of Javy's lack of production.

Jenks and Dye are two respected, productive players which is why i don't see either going anywhere

For those who are making fun of sox fans saying we over-value our players:

It's not that we think jenks and dye are worth the world. It's the fact that they are two absolutely vital and consistent parts of our team. If we were to part with them, we expect to get more than they're worth to other teams.

Jenks lowered velocity is not the problem, it's his reduced strikeout totals. I think hitters have learned not to swing at his vicious curve because 1) it's very difficult to hit, and 2) it will more likely than not be called a ball. I like the guy a lot but I don't trust him.

Also, LOL at the NY fans who think signing one reliever will solve their bullpen woes. That was a group effort at sub-mediocrity.

Seriously, it is comments like that about Rivera and Madson that are the reason people don't like Boras.

"i thought i read somewhere, and it might have just been a fan's speculation, but weren't the reds thinking about putting votto in left field?"

Given Votto's defensive prowess at 1B, that would be an idiot move.

I would love for there to be a "blockbuster" involving Jenks, Dye and the Mets, but as other Sox fans are saying, they better get a good haul for them. Not because they are worth it, but because they don't have to be traded.

Now the reason I don't think it will happen, and not because the White Sox demands would be too high, or the Mets willing to give up too little. Is because everyone is talking about it. Think about it, how many rumors of White Sox trades were right? How many trades has KW made that nobody even heard of until it was done? He works under the radar, and if it's being written about, that means it's probably not true anyway. Dye and Jenks might go, but only if they can get a lot back, and it probably won't be in the same deal.

Jay Payton in Boston? No.

Link to the article indicates Paytons desire to return (I guess riding the bench for the lousy O's was a wake up call as to why he was riding the bench for the playoff bound Red Sox), the link does not indicate however Bostons interest in Payton.

Yes Boston needs a Right-handed hitting OF capable of playing CF, but Jay Payton is not that man.

Why on earth would this even be in the realm of possibilities considering the circumstances to which Payton left.

Payton was such a little baby about not getting playing time that he forced the Red Sox hand in trading him for virtually nothing. The ownership, front office and manager haven't changed since then so why on earth would he believe they would take him back.

Its called burning a bridge and Payton seems to have burned a lot in his career.

While there are a few fans on both sides who have unreasonable expectations, I think most of the suggestions I'm seeing in this thread are fairly reasonable.

It's an exaggeration to say Jenks is worth as much as Reyes, but it's not at all unreasonable to say he is worth more than John Maine. Both are 27 year old pitchers with 3 years of arbitriation remaining. One is a solid #3 SP who doesn't go deep enough into games, the other is a top 10 closer. Who would get more if both were on the FA market this year? If you aren't talking about an established big leaguer like Maine or Pelfrey here, than in place of that, I think you likely do have to be willing to discuss Fernando Martinez.

As for Dye, a very even comparable to giving up a guy like Niese for Dye would be if we were talking about Carlos Delgado for Aaron Poreda. Any fan who doesn't see those as pretty equivalent is probably over valuing their own. Delgado and Dye are same age, same salary, similar production, and those two pitchers will rank very close on any year end prospects lists.

Even this: "Dye & Jenks for Pelfrey, FMart, Niese, Kunz, Murphy. That would be my dream haul, but probably 1 person too many." --really isn't too far off providing the one player too many is Pelfrey. Take him out, and then maybe substitute for Murphy another one of the Mets's upper level B prospects (Carp, Evans, or Parnell), and I think that's very close. And most of the comments here seem to agree roughly with that.

Keep in mind, not only would the Mets have to give up a draft pick to sign a FA, but even if Dye walks after a year, there's a good chance to get a pick for him as well.

I don't know whether the teams will agree on anything, but as far as needs, they do match up fairly well. The Mets probably should be in "win now" mode right now, and their #1 need is a closer, and some seem to think a RH bat (though I think that's overblown given what Wrght and Beltran provide vs LHP).

Jenks strikeout rate went down, yes. But his control went up. His strikeouts dropped from 80 to 56 to 38 over the last 3 seasons. His walk total went from 31 to 13 to 17, his ERA went from 4.00 to 2.77 to 2.63 and his WHIP went from 1.392 to 0.892 to 1.103. His innings also dipped slightly as well, but only from 69.7 to 65.0 to 61.7.

His ERA+ the year he struck out 80 in 69.7 innings: 119. His ERA+ the last two years as his strikeout total dropped: 177 and 174.

He doesn't strikeout as many guys, but he is a much much much more effective pitcher. He knows how to pitch and he knows that blowing by people isn't always the answer.

He is a better overall pitcher now than he was 2 years ago, even if he only struck out half as many guys.

supermets-obviously you are a mets fan, but as I said, I am just stating the reality of the situation and what Kenny Williams is very likely to demand. And adding Danks and Quentin to the deal could yield the previous package + Reyes and Wright

As a Met fan, I really have no interest in Dye or Jenks. There are plenty of closers available, and Dye is not a necessity. How about this.... sign Pat Burrell/Juan Rivera. Sign Kerry Wood. Keep Fernando Martinez. Doesn't seem like much of a choice.

you see Kenny williams is a genius but he waited one year too long if he had an eye on Pelfrey. He could've had him for a song at the end of last year. Now, I wouldn't do it if I were the Mets.

I'm a Sox fan and dont think the mets should/will give up Pelfrey, so stop sox fans. and mets fans, stop your crying about how Wood is better than Jenks, because as any Cubs fan would agree, Jenks is much better.
Dye+Lil to the Reds for Bailey+Dickerson
Jenks to the Mets for Fmart, Flores+Parnell.

"Dye+Lil to the Reds for Bailey+Dickerson
Jenks to the Mets for Fmart, Flores+Parnell."

keep the first one remove the 2nd

you sox fans think way too highly on your mediocre players. there is no way the mets will give up all of their prospects for dye and jenks. they can sign k rod and abreu and keep their young talent. i would rather keep murphy out in left field than trade away 5 of the top porspects on an already depleted minor league system.

Over the last 4 seasons, Dye has been just as productive, if not more, than both Beltran and Delgado. He is gonna be 35 so age might start to take a toll, but Delgado is gonna be 37.

Jenks and Dye are not mediocre players. Jenks is without a doubt a top 10 closer, and can be argued for top 5.

Dye has been one of the more consistently productive OF over the last 4 years. Definitely a large step above average (other than 07).

Face it, Jenks would be the best RP on the Mets, and Dye would be equal to or better than Delgado and Beltran.

Mets have better options on the free agent market than they do trading away what they have left of their prospects. I mean, if Dye was 27 - 28 and still had a few years left on his deal, I'd think about trading for Dye and giving up quite a bit to get him.

As for Jenks, Mets don't need to make a trade like that giving away one of their top prospects for a closer when they could have one without giving up their top prospect and dealing away many others too.

On the Whitesox side, that wouldn't be enough for Dye AND Jenks unless the Sox really are serious about getting younger and want to rebuild.

Payton can gargle my balls. He's never coming back to Boston after the bullshiat he pulled in order to leave.

If the Red Sox don't get Baldelli, they should just go with either Jonathan van Every or Jeff Bailey as 4th OF. Both had 25 HR in AAA. Van Every plays CF, so Ellsbury could backup LF or RF. Bailey plays the corners and 1B, so Drew could back up in CF.

"Martinez is "all but untouchable." GOOD, he's been mediocre at-best in his minor league career anyways, I don't care how young he is. Non-existant power, no sb's, not even that great of an OBP. We don't feel like waiting 5 years to get his act together. Keep him and pay out your ass for KRod."

While I understand your point about not wanting to wait around on Martinez, consider this Martinez has put up his numbers at the age of 19 in AA ball. Look at Dye, when he was 19 he was in rookie ball and still had 5 more years in the minors. Martinez has been highly challenged by spending the last 2 years at AA. If he was in High A or Low A which would be age appropriate I don't think its a stretch to imagine him posting a much higher OPS. Dye never hit more than 15 HR's in the minors yet since becoming a full time starter in the majors has never hit less than 23 (with the exception of the year he only played 60 games and was injured). As for Jenks minor league stats he was so dominate he was put on waivers. He only found success once he became a reliever. Martinez is a great prospect and would prob. rank 2nd in the Sox system behind Beckham.

I am by no means a Mets fan but I do value Martinez. I dont think he's untouchable, but I would say the Sox would be lucky to add him to your system.

If Dye was 27-28 there is no way the Sox would trade him, they would be trying to lock him up long term. Problem is he's slow, and they have 4 guys in their lineup that are slow and are station to station guys. The reason Dye is the one being talked about is because he has the most value of any of them. The Sox aren't going to give Dye away, he's not a salary dump. If they don't get blown away for either Dye or Jenks, I doubt they get traded. There isn't a reason to give them away, they would get traded to fill other bigger holes than the ones they would create.

And I don't think anybody will be paying out the ass for K-Rod. Somebody is going to bring him home for about half of the 75 million he was looking for a month ago. This is why you wait things out and don't sign guys the day FA starts.

nrmax,

Wood better than Jenks?? What are you smoking? Wood isn't even close to Jenks in the closing department. Wood has done it one year, had a higher ERA, more walks, and more blown saves. Jenks is a much much much better closer than wood is any day. Although I will admit that Wood surprised me as to how well he did close, I wouldn't mind him coming to the sox to set up for Jenks. The only way Jenks goes anywhere is if KW is floored by the offer, he has said as much. According to KW, everyone is available. For some players he will have to be offered tons to get, like Jenks.