Rosenthal On Fielder, Buchholz, Edmonds

I would love it if Nomar and Frank Thomas sat out the 09 season for money. how sad.

I would love the Yanks to sign Garciaparra to a short 1 year deal. He would be a good bat off the bench and could fill fill in at 3b, SS, 1B w/o their being a huge fall off offensively compared to Berroa or Ransom (who was good last year but still unproven). You can have Swisher filling in at LF/CF/RF/DH/1B and Garciaparra filling in and coming off the bench at 3B/SS/1B/DH. That's a hell of a lot of depth with proven players.

Hey, Rangers fans, which of the two young catchers - Salty or Teagarden - would you least like to lose? Which one do you see as having the better long-term career as a catcher? If the Sox are going to give up Buchholz or one of the other young pitchers, I'd like it to be for someone who will be a long-term replacement for Varitek. I've heard Salty is the better hitter, but may not have a future behind the plate. Is this correct? I do hope, from a Red Sox fan's perspective, it's Buchholz they deal. I've never really been impressed with the guy, even with the no-hitter.

Also, where does Miguel Montero rate? Is he better than both Texas youngsters, or just better than one? Or better than neither? Would this be a better deal for the Red Sox? I haven't seen any of them play in person so I really don't know.

I wish the Yankees would take a look at Sheets or Perz . .seems like the market is crashing on both guys . and both could be serious bargins . .

Lol thanks for pointing out the Dunn thing, Tim. Rosenthal is such a moron

Sorry Edmonds, we can't use a guy who will OPS 850 against righties in his sleep, you'll have to sit out this year.

I'm hoping interest in him stays low so the Cubs can re-sign him as a "lefty off the bench"...which would turn into full-time starter in CF and batting 6th. He still hits for power and has a great eye at the plate.

Teagarden is the better defensive catcher, but salty has much more power potential. if one has to go i would rather see them trade salty. However now that laird is gone there is really not reason to trade one unless the rangers get overwhelmed by the offer. So the red sox loving media can keep reporting what the red sox are willing to do. I hope the rangers have moved on and if we can get Sanchez from the giants for Salty that’s a good deal. But I wouldn’t touch any of the red sox pitchers.

Edmonds was horrid in CF on D, but his bat is still outstanding. I can't understand why no one is interested in him as a corner OF/1B, or even a reserve at this point. Amazing.

Actually trading young pitching/Lowell/cash for Fielder would make sense for the Red Sox.

"A front line catcher isn't worth a front of the rotation starter."

I agree with this. I guess we differ on whether Buchholz is a front-of-the-rotation starter, especially in Boston, where they have a very solid top three already.

"trading young pitching/Lowell/cash for Fielder would make sense for the Red Sox."

But does it make sense for the Brewers? Lowell's got two more years at 12.5 mil and is coming off a serious injury.

good for the sox for not trading buchholz. hes gunna be good. this will be his break out year.

"I don't want to trade Lowell. I feel really bad for the guy."

Why? He's coming off a serious injury with no guarantee he'll return to his 2007 form. The Sox had to try to find a backup plan for him.

Posted by: cmac1973 | January 09, 2009 at 09:56 AM

I know that. I guess I'd be too sentimental to be a GM, haha. I guess that's why I'm a poster on mlbtraderumors like the rest of us, haha.

A's can fill alot of the brewers needs

OF- ryan sweeney or travis buck

mlb ready pitching- gio, gallagher, outman, braden

top tier pitching- anderson/cahill

relievers- ziegler/devine/blevins/carignan/bailey/hrod

a 1b to replace fielder - barton/doolittle/carter

any combo of these players could be a competitive offer

Thanks, NYTXFAN. Sounds like you would least like to lose Teagarden, who is ther guy I've heard is the best overall player of the three. One question, though: You said if his bat doesn't come around, it would be Varitek part two. I assume you mean the Varitek of the past few seasons rather than the one who was an All-Star, 20-homer guy?

"A front line catcher isn't worth a front of the rotation starter."

Look at the Hamilton trade from last year. Obviously both organizations thought highly of the players involved and came out even on the trade. Volquez was a #2 starter for the Reds (who were a horribl team) and Hamilton brought an offense to the Rangers.

So, what's wrong with getting a front line catcher in one of the Ranger catchers while having to give up Bucholz, who has shown promise? We have a need for catching which they have a surplus and they need pitching, which we have a surplus.

Also, in regards to which catcher to get from them if a trade were to happen-my vote is for Salty. He has public commited to becoming a top tier catcher and honing his skills (especially if V-Tek resigns). it seems like a logical fit. Teagarden may be all around better, so I doubt they move him, even if Bucholz was traded.

A few things about the Rangers catchers.

Teagarden is the better overall prospects who plays good D and has pop (he hit 6 homers in about 50 at bats in September). Salty is poor defensively, but projects as a better overall hitter.

Salty didn't lose his job to Laird when Laird came back from injury. It was a complicated situation, and a lot of it had to do with Laird's trade value, but mostly it was a decision early in the season to platoon the two catchers, and Laird's moaning to the media about losing playing time. Plus, Salty hurt his arm.

If I were the Rangers, I'd press the Red Sox with an offer like this: Salty for Bowden and Bard, and we'll throw in one of the following:

Gabbard
Mendoza
Feldman
Gholson
Boggs
Arias
Poveda

It's unlikely that Boston would agree to that, but it would determine whether they really want Salty or not.

If I'm Texas I'm not touching Teagarden or Max.

So, what's wrong with getting a front line catcher in one of the Ranger catchers while having to give up Bucholz, who has shown promise? We have a need for catching which they have a surplus and they need pitching, which we have a surplus.- turnthe2

I thought I gave my reasoning in my initial post, but I'll state it again(I love repeating myself).

Wakefield is 42 years old, Penny and Smoltz are one year deals and Beckett is a FA after 2010.

So a 2011 rotation might look like this(If we can't re-sign Beckett):

1. Lester
2. Matsuzaka
3. BUCHHOLZ
4. Bowden
4. Masterson

Repeat after me. . .The Red Sox are not going to trade Clay Buccholz for any Rangers catcher. . .The Red Sox are not going to trade Clay Buccholz for any Rangers catcher. . .The Red Sox are not going to trade Clay Buccholz for any Rangers catcher. . .

Buchholz is a top of the rotation arm, rated the best SP prospect by Baseball Prospectus going into '08. The Red Sox are not going to trade him for a catcher, even one of Texas' talented young catchers.

Hence Rosenthal's report: "the Red Sox still are not willing to trade Clay Buchholz for Jarrod Saltalamacchia. . ."

"Why? He's coming off a serious injury with no guarantee he'll return to his 2007 form. The Sox had to try to find a backup plan for him."

There's absolutely zero indication that the injury will hamper Lowell long term. He was able to play through it for a while and his rehab is apparently on schedule. Adding to that, Lowell has never had any major injury history to speak of. This was the first year since 2003 where he appeared in less than 150 games and put in less than 500 at bats. All indications are that he should bounce back to a reasonably solid .280/.350/.470.

"Look at the Hamilton trade from last year. Obviously both organizations thought highly of the players involved and came out even on the trade. Volquez was a #2 starter for the Reds (who were a horribl team) and Hamilton brought an offense to the Rangers."

You're ignoring the fact that the Rangers were horrible because their pitching was absolutely terrible. Without Hamilton (Who actually regressed a good bit in the second half and was mediocre on the road, away from the hitter's paradise that is Arlington), they still have Bradley and Kinsler tearing the cover off the ball. If they hadn't traded Volquez, he could've served as a potential ace for them in an incredibly weak overall AL West. There was a time when they were actually hanging for the Wild Card and that one pitcher anchoring the staff might have been the difference.

"It's unlikely that Boston would agree to that, but it would determine whether they really want Salty or not."

If I'm Boston, I don't touch that. I simply don't trust Salty's long term projection at catcher and if I'm giving up two of our top three prospects, I wouldn't take anything less than Teagarden.

" Salty as a catcher could be top 5 in all of baseball. As a first baseman? Middle of the road.

I think Texas will be motivated to trade Salty this season "

top 5 offensively, not defensively. if hes top 5 talent then why would tehy trade him for anything less then buchholz?

Davis sucks at 3B, i think defense should be the last of their concerns. In that ballpark they'll never have good pitching, so they need the most bats in the line up as possible.

Angels make the best sense for Fielder.

Adenhart/Walden and Morales should get it done.

"Davis sucks at 3B, i think defense should be the last of their concerns. In that ballpark they'll never have good pitching, so they need the most bats in the line up as possible."

That's actually the wrong way to think. Defense makes pitchers look better than they actually are. So, horrendous pitchers would look merely mediocre.

Cmac,

Yeah the worst offensively that Tea could do would duplicate what Tek has done the last couple years. But, I do think he will be better then the 20 hr guy Tek was. However, any deal with Boston probably won't happen. Texas is just fine going into the season with all three guys on the 40 man and unless Boston throws the name Buchholz out there then no deal will happen. I don't even think Texas is saying Buch for Salty. Hell, I'm sure they would do Tea for Buch. But Boston saying no to that just doesn't work for Texas.

i just read buchholz bio and it said he was arrested in 2005 when he stole 29 laptops from his high school. FTW

i just read buchholz bio and it said he was arrested in 2005 when he stole 29 laptops from his high school. FTW

Posted by: glen_quagmire | January 09, 2009 at 10:55 AM

That's not news. He's talked about it pretty honestly in the past. He also dates hot women and seems to care more about that sort of off-the-field stuff than improving on the field. To me, he's one of those guys who's always been so good that he hasn't had to work on it. Now that's he had such a horrible year, maybe he will. I think that was part of why the sox sent him to AA rather than AAA - to test him and send him a real message.

"And who's to say Volquez would have pitched the same @ Arlington or Kinsler and Bradley would have hit the same without Hamilton in the lineup?"

Nobody, but the fact stands that Texas had a clear overabundance of offense this season and a clear drought at pitching and that's something that never, ever works.

Look at the 2008 Rays: average offense, stellar pitching; they went to the World Series. Milton Bradley and Ian Kinsler are both offensive minded players. Take out Holliday's 130 RBIs and leave a vaccuum and the Rangers still average as many runs produced per game as the Rays (4.8). Add in Volquez throwing every fifth day and the Rangers are suddenly potential competitors if he pitches close to his standard in Cincinnati.

They had the, bar-none, worst pitching in the MLB. Eliminate the Hamilton/Volquez trade and they still have, probably, one of the top five offenses in the game. However, they'd suddenly jump up to the top ten pitching staffs in the AL. They probably wouldn't have contended for the Wild Card, honestly, but they almost certainly would've topped .500.

"
That's not news. He's talked about it pretty honestly in the past. He also dates hot women and seems to care more about that sort of off-the-field stuff than improving on the field. To me, he's one of those guys who's always been so good that he hasn't had to work on it. Now that's he had such a horrible year, maybe he will. I think that was part of why the sox sent him to AA rather than AAA - to test him and send him a real message."

That's my primary concern with Buchholz. He has pure, fantastic stuff, but his personality is similar to Hansen's. Goes out, parties all the time, gets into trouble and it haunts him on the field. I'm hoping Buch turns out better and the Sox use the mess that Hansen became as a cautionary tale.

I don't think Volquez would have made that much of a difference - since Josh single-handely won about 10 games last year, and that's probably what Volquez would have done.

The other problem with Texas last year was that their bullpen was just as bad as their starting rotation. So I am skeptical that just adding Volquez would have vaulted them from the bottom to the top 10. The Rangers best pitcher last season was probably Scott Freaking Feldman. That in itself should tell you everything you need to know about this infamous group.

Trivia question:

Who was the last Rangers' starter to pitch 200+ innings and have an ERA under 4.00?

A: It's only happened once this decade - in 2002. Kenny Rogers.

So this has been a problem for a long, long time.

And before someone calls me an Angels homer, I'm a fan of a rival team.

I'm just being realistic about Fielder. He's overrated. He'll get expensive in arbitration. I don't think he'll even be below market value by his arb-2 years.

"I hope the rangers have moved on and if we can get Sanchez from the giants for Salty that’s a good deal. But I wouldn’t touch any of the red sox pitchers."

Posted by: frisco-drillers | January 09, 2009 at 09:29 AM

I look at the Red Sox and Rangers and see two front offices and sets of fans that are just too hung up on their own young talent. A third team (such as the Giants) may well be needed to consummate a deal:

1) Rangers get Sanchez
2) Red Sox get Saltalamacchia
3) Giants get Bard/Argenis Diaz/Rangers Prospect

Before either side goes apoplectic at the thought of such a deal, consider the following:

1) The Rangers have expressed interest in Sanchez
2) The Red Sox obviously need a catcher and have been scouting Salty
3) Sanchez is at best the Giants third best starter. A former 27th round pick, he has a career ERA and WHIP of 5.18 and 1.50, respectively.

J the Dizzolla said: "if Texas would accept BOTH Bowden and Bard in exchange for Salty and another prospect, would Boston bite on that one?"

It's possible as both rotation and the bullpen are looking pretty good as is right now. It would STRONGLY depend on who the prospect was though.

"I might be wrong. It might cost both of Adenhart and Walden along with Morales, or one of the Adenhart/Walden tandem, a good relief prospect, and Morales."

no, you might actually be right. If they'd go for Adenhart/Walden, Morales and maybe a low level guy, I'd do it.

"Prince Fielder and Dave Bush for Joe Saunders and a low level guy/reliever.

or..

Prince Fielder for Kendry Morales, Nick Adenhart and Peter Bourjos. The Brewers could use a good CF prospect too."

I'd try the second deal first

"I think that the Rangers should abandon trying to obtaining Buchholz. I thing that they should try to obtain a package of good players like Nick Hagadone, Casey Kelly, and maybe one other player."

If Buchholz is not in the package, then the discussion begins with Bowden.

melonis rex...do you think that Bowden could be a front line starter...

Why would the team who trades the premium pitching not just sign Dunn? Easy. Prince is much better. Better average, better OBP, room for improvement.

It'd be tough for Brewer fans to get over the move, but for a good pitcher or pitchers it'd be worth it.

I really like Hagadone...I think that he will be a stud. It might two or three years..But that about the same time it will take Salty.

"I might be wrong. It might cost both of Adenhart and Walden along with Morales, or one of the Adenhart/Walden tandem, a good relief prospect, and Morales."

I think this is probably closer to correct.

The Angels likely won't even consider moving Santana and Saunders, but the Brewers would need more than Morales and a pitcher.

If they could get one of those pitchers along with Morales, and then a third young player, then I could see it coming together.

I said Fielder for Morales, Adenhart and Bourjos before, and I still think that could make some sense.

Otherwise, maybe something with Jered Weaver, the worst of their three young starters.

"If Buchholz is not in the package, then the discussion begins with Bowden."

Definitely true. Bowden is the next best guy that have, and I just don't see Hagadone being dealt.

Hagadone is coming off of surgery, but his raw talent is great, and he looks as though he could come back as a potential top of the rotation guy. They'll probably wait to find out before dealing him, considering his value isn't exactly sky high right now coming off injury.

Scribbletone, so what your saying that they wouldn't package Bowden and Hagadone.

Papelboner --

What the Red Sox front office told the press and the real reasons they do something are often very different things, as you certainly know from your years of following the team. All I said was maybe PART of the reason Clay was sent to AA was because they wanted him to straighten up his act. Remember, they sent Arroyo out of town when he started hitting the karaoke bars every night to promote his album and let Lowe go when he was more concerned about women and booze than balls and strikes. Even Johnny Damon and Kevin Millar weren't big priorities once they started getting more wild than they were worth. I think Clay is on the block, no matter what Theo might say publicly. Why would he tell the world he's willing to trade the guy and make his value drop?

Why don't the sox trade for Fielder.Buchholtz,D.Bard,Lugo,Pimentel.For Prince.

"Why don't the sox trade for Fielder.Buchholtz,D.Bard,Lugo,Pimentel.For Prince."

Because that would be stupid for both sides.

Not crazy about Edmonds for the O's. Seems like you'd have to overpay to get him, relative to the probable output.

""Why don't the sox trade for Fielder.Buchholtz,D.Bard,Lugo,Pimentel.For Prince."

Because that would be stupid for both sides."

That would be GREAT for the Brewers. Yes, they're taking on a bad contract, but they're getting TWO VERY high upside arms under control for the next 6 years or so, and another nice prospect.

I am not giving Texas anything. Wait this out till July 31, when they are out 20 games. They are always looking for pitching.

Did someone seriously suggest a Jason Bay for Bobby Parnell trade?

Bay is a stud and Parnell is just a solid pitching prospect.

The Sox likely have zero interest in moving Bay, especially in such a lopsided deal for the other team.

"Scribbletone, so what your saying that they wouldn't package Bowden and Hagadone."

For Mauer, sure.